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Adam F E - 01:04pm Mar 9, 1999 (#1 of 10)
Rude People...
It seems that we have differing views on what makes someone
rude. Several of you said that someone who is rude is someone
"qui ne dit pas bonjour." I would have to say most people
here do not do that. I would not consider it rude because it is
so common. I'm guessing that you would find people very rude here.
Further evidence of this is that many of us say that someone who
is rude insults and bothers us. People insult each other very
much here. Complete strangers get in arguments quite frequently.
You can see the rudeness of people especially when they drive
here. People become angry rather easily. Is there much personal
confrontation in France? That seems to be the deciding factor
here for someone to be rude (ie not being rude makes you polite.)
It seems from your responses that politeness is based more on
good manners, not a lack of bad manners.
Culture Clash?
In the US there are several stereotypes that surround France and its people. One of these stereotypes is that French people are rude. I cannot remember how many times I've heard horror stories of tourists visiting France and getting brushed off by locals. That may be because the French find americans to be rude in the first place. However, from the responses, it seems that the French value respect and politeness. For example, many of you claimed that a rude person is someone that doesn't say hello. Does this gesture apply to all people or just close friends? There seems to be a stress on the social interactions among people in general. I noticed that in France there appears to be a notion of a commonwealth and a common good. Do you feel that personally? is it a product of national pride? or is it a product in a faith in government and authority?
As for Americans, we tend to stress emotions and feelings, the interactions between two people. Americans seem to be very personal and value one on one interactions. This may be a reason for the positive american feelings towards "individualism," which the French appear to disdain.
So, to summarize, is there a sense of a "commonwealth"
in France? and if so, where does it come from? What are your reactions
toward the emotional inclinations of americans?
A smile from a stranger or a random 'Good morning!'can really
brighten a person's day, although someone in the United States
who goes around saying that to everyone would be viewed as overzealous.
Sometimes it is important that a greeting comes from the heart,
and others are just taken in stride. I noticed that your responses
did not mention hurting another person's feelings. Are the french
naturally supposed to hide their feelings so as not to be 'rude'
by our standards?
Rudeness and upbringing
One person described a rude person as "de mal élevé". I find that interesting when used in connection with an adult person. When a child is acting spoiled, it's natural to blame the parents. But when an adult is being rude, do you think that the person's upbringing is to blame? My answer to that question would be, "yes, partly", although I don't think that such a question would even occur to most Americans. (Actually, we do blame their parents in one of the more colorful expressions in English which I can't mention here ;-)
A stereotype floating around here is that people in some regions
are ruder than those in other regions. For instance, I've heard
from several that New Yorkers are way more unamiable, to put it
lightly, than folks from, say, California (apologies to all you
New Yorkers out there). It's exactly that, a stereotype, and I
find that such a concept is rather ridiculous. Yet, I'm curious
if a similar perception exists in your country?
First of all, I'd like to point out that the majority of Americans replied with one form or another of "does not have concern for others" or "does not respect others". Although 4 French answers shared this idea, the Americans vastly outnumbered the French in submitting this particular answer. It seems, for some reason, that Americans focus more on concern and respect while the French see a polite person as someone who says hi and responds when spoken to. Is there a reason why Americans seem to think that a polite person should care deeply while the French seem to value superficial kindness?
In response to Dinh-Yen's comment: I agree completely. A child is still under the jurisdiction of his or her parents; therefore, parents are responsible for their rude child and should take measures to discipline the child. However, one can't really blame a rude adult's poor behavior on his or her parents. An adult who has presumably had human contact and seen the world should have learned on his or her own what is proper and what is not.
I'm from New York, and people always tell me that they could
have never guessed it, partially because I don't have the stereotypical
New York accent and because they think I'm too polite to be from
New York. Stereotypes concerning different regions and different
countries often prove to be false. Americans stereotype the French
as being rude and vice versa. I think it depends on the person
and the situation. Generally, I believe that people become friendlier
as you know and understand them better.
knife on the right, fork on the left or the other way around?
It appears to me that for french rudness and politeness are
manifestations of a social behavior and for the americans a reflection
of personality. It seeams very interesting, in my country, Greece,
if you go to the little vilages , people usually lack social manners
but they would promptly invite a complete stranger for dinner.
Does this happen in the rural parts of France too? If yes, I am
ready to pack my stuff and pay you a long visit, the mit food
sucks...
Histoire de couverts
Les couverts ne sont pas seulement à mettre à gauche ou à droite de l'assiette mais les dents du couteau à l'intérieur ou à l'extérieur: un petit dessin illustratif :
___ ___ / | | \ \ | | / / | | \ \ | | / / | | \ \ | | / | | | | assiette | | ou assiette | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |__| |__|
Bonne solution Mauvaise solution
Et les fourchettes peuvent se mettre |___------ (les dents en l'air) ___ ou | ------ (les dents sur la table) pour certains c'est la bonne manière dans un sens et pour d'autres la mauvaise.
Pour ma part je ne suis pas une référence car je change toujours mes couverts de place au restaurant car je prends mon couteau de la main gauche alors que je suis droitière! Bref il y a beaucoup de règles dans les "hautes sphères" avec les couteaux à fromage, les fourchettes à dessert les cuillères à soupe etc... Enfin chez moi on dit "mettre le couvert" et pas "mettre la table".
En tout cas, ce qui compte c'est ce qu'il y a dans l'assiette!!
PS j'espère que les dessins ne seront pas décalés
!
Dommage pour les couteaux!
Saying hello to strangers
I was just wondering if it is considered rude in France to
not say hello to a stranger on the street. I know in the United
States, especially in big cities, people do not say hello to strangers.
Usually people do not even make eye contact with strangers. I've
found this to be especially true in the northeast. However, in
the southern United States, people are more friendly, and even
say hello to strangers. What is the usual behavior when confronting
strangers in France?
Hello, stranger
My experience confirms a common stereotype over here, that
people in the West coast are friendlier. I used to live in California
for a while and I recall having said hello to at least 5 people
while walking down the street one afternoon. After spending 3+
years in Boston, I don't think I've ever said hello to anyone
on the street! (MIT doesn't count of course :-) Well, maybe it's
not a West-East coast thing as much as big-city vs small-city.
Perhaps big-city dwellers tend to be too busy to pay attention
to others and have an inherent distrust of others.