United States - Etats Unis

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Bonjour, je m'appelle Julien et je suis francais. J'ai choisi d'analyser la carte semantique du mot Etats Unis. Les Etats Unis evoquent pour les francais les mots cow boy, drapeau, Oncle Sam. C'est l'idee que les francais se font de l'histoire des Etats-Unis> On remarque qu'il y a une association avec les mots hamburger, consommation, coca-cola, et c'est l'idee que se font les francais de la culture americaine. Ce qui est surprenant et tres revelateur de la pensee francaise et que ces mots sont associes a l'idee de puissance, qui est elle associee aux mots egoiste, guerre, domination, pollution, qui sont negatifs. Pour les francais, l'idee de puissance amene a des choses negatives. D'autre part, l'idee de travail revient tres peu et celle de liberte pas du tout. Pour les americains, l'idee la plus frequente est celle de patriotisme. On retrouve les mots home, flag, patriotic, statue of Liberty, ce qui mene au deuxieme champs lexical le plus developpe: la liberte. Freedom, democracy. La derniere idee la plus developpee est celle de travail et d'argent, avec les mots business, busy, money, rich. Pour les americains, la puissance est associe a la richesse et a la liberte.

Hi Julien,

My name is Jennifer, and I have lived in the US for the past 12 years. I think that there are a lot of reasons why the pereceptions of America are very different from the American students points of view and those of the French students. Firstly, this is our home turf, so we'd like to think the best of it, and we take pride in our freedom, patriotism, and the notion of calling it "home". I think outsiders probably view the US as a superpower, which is maybe why "puissance" showed up so many times on the French list. Also, I found it interesting that "cow boy" showed up on the list, but I guess it makes perfect sense if you're thinking of the history of the US and all the pioneers and western films and things like that.

I've visited Paris twice on vacation, and I know that my "word associations" reflected that of a tourist...I mentioned culture, food, the Eiffel Tower. However, I'm sure that those things don't constitute the view you have of France.

Have you ever visited the US? If you have, where did you go and what did you think of it? If you haven't, where would you like to visit and why?

Hello!

haha. When I read the words chosen for the United States, I could not help but laugh, as the words amused me so much. The french idea of american culture is probably the idea of american culture that the rest of the world has. I also feel that many americans are unable to come to terms with the fact that these images of america are actually a very large part of the american identity, though in a more indirect and subtle way. "The business of America is business" were the words spoken by President Calvin Coolidge. American business, industry, and mass consumerism is probably the most defining aspect of the American way of life as it encapsulates the American values of choice and independence, the freedom to make our own decisions about what we do with what we earn (individualism), and relative independence from the government. It is easier to be more selfish in a country that has only two bordering neighbors. I do not mean selfish in a negative sense, but selfish as a very universal trait in wanting to live in the best conditions possible. America's very size and unity (in comparison to the large but provincialy divided countries of India and China) enables and promotes this "large-ness syndrome" that is in part responsible for obesity and SUVs. It is a nation of generous proportion and freedom, but there are also areas of hypocrisy and irony. Though we are a state that officially divides church and state, the united states is a country where religious ties with government and political decision making abounds. Recent examples of this are the gay marriage debacle (in defining whether or not marriage is a religious institution) and stem cell research. We claim to be a land of freedom and democracy and yet we seem to want to force our way of life onto others through acts of violence against people, as well as justify our wrongs though we have not the right to do so. But at the same time, despite our many problems and struggles, the united states still has come a long way and a further way than many countries have come on issues such as racism. …and I shall stop here for now. ^__^

In addition Frances comments about how other parts of the world view the US, I found it interesting and a bit strange on my opinion to see words like "fast food" and "McDonalds" and "hamburgers" under the associations made by MIT students. To me, those would be associations made by people not from this country, as those words were not anywhere near the first in my mind when I was doing these associations.

I completely identify with Kathryn. When I read the French responses for the word "United States", the first thing I noticed were the references to food and obesity. Then I started thinking about studies I've seen about how an outstanding percentage of the population here is obese. I just didn't think the rest of the world viewed us as that. Why do you French students think that is?

I wasn't horrified as I expected I would be because I thought all of your responses would be negative; making references to the war and about how Americans act. Although some were, I was mainly amuzed when I read: "hamburger" and "McDonalds".

Salut Je m'appelle Mohamed. L'association de mots autour des USA s'avère très riche, et relativement symétrique en comparaison avec celle autour du mot France. J'étais supris de voir quelques uns d'entre vous avoir une vision très crue de votre patrie: arrogant, Mc DOnalds, arrogant, war...on dirait un français qui parle des Etats Unis. Vous êtes critiques vis -à-vis de votre pays. EN revanche, si l'on regarde de près les associations autour de "France", je remarque qu'aucun d'entre nous, n'a utilisé un sens négatif. C'est dire que les Français ne sont pas moins fiers de leur pays que des Americains... N'oubliez pas , que chez nous, on a deux visions d'une Amérique double. D'un coté: New York, technologies, ouvert... et d'un autre Cow boy, conservateur, consommation...Ces deux facettes sont certes différentes, mais je pense que c'est cette diversité et cette complémentarité qui font le charme et la puissance des US.

M.

Pour répondre à vos interrogations, Katia et Kathryn, je crois qu’ici en France (et cela est probablement vrai partout ailleurs dans le monde) nous nous sentons envahi par le mode de vie américain et tous ses symboles : Mc Donalds, Coca Cola, et par les maux que cela entraîne… l’obésité. Eh oui, ici aussi l’obésité commence à devenir un sujet de préoccupation. Bref, il est clair que notre réaction se justifie, notre pays est culturellement extrêmement riche et nous souhaitons préserver cette richesse, alors croyez moi, quand on passe devant un Mc Donalds tous les 500 mètres sur les boulevards parisien nous avons le droit de penser que le consumérisme américain à tendance à déteindre sur nos vies ici en France !!!

Bonjour tout le monde. Je voudrai revenir sur le mot puissance qui revient souvent et sur son caractère négatif, puisqu'il est aussi associé aux mots mégalopoles, villes du futur et tour touchant les nuages. Les cités de hautes technologies ont un caractère très négatif en France. En effet, la seule puissance qui reste à la France vient de son patrimoine touristique, et les français sont très fiers de leurs villages champêtres. La France est le plus beau pays du monde. Mais en matière d'économie, nous avons complètement abdiqué devant les Etats Unis. Mais le français est mauvais joueur. Aujourd'hui, il a une réelle répugnance pour le pouvoir qu'incarnent les Etats Unis. Travailler pour réussir est presque devenu mal dans notre pays. Plus personne n'applaudit l'homme qui à force de courage a réussi à faire fortune. C'est devenu mal. Pour les français, l'idée de puissance est négative. Un comble...

Hello Mohamed! My name is Natalia, I am Colombian but have lived in the US for 16 years. In response to your comment, I did also notice that there were many negative word associations with the US on the MIT side. "War" and "arrrogant" seem to be pretty common ways that other nations view the US, but why is it that Americans are using these words too? In my opinion, particularly here at MIT there is such a diverse student body, most students here were either born in other countries or their parents/grandparents immigrated here. Although most of these students (myself included) identify more with American culture as a result of living here, it is still unlikely for them to call themselves American. I think it is because of this that it becomes easy for us to judge America as arrogant and whatnot. And regarding the "McDonalds" there is one on every corner of every street in every city, so it is kind of hard to ignore them! haha

Natalia

I don't think it's necessarily the non-Americans who make negative word associations with the United States. I think one of the main reasons this country has improved over the last 200+ years is that its own people have constantly been critisizing it. Also, everything in the news recently has been about the US in Iraq, so I don't think it's too surprising that "United States" makes one think of war.

-Dima

Ben Driss Alami brought up the abundance of negative words directed at America by the American students and their complete absence in French students’ thoughts of their own country. There is still a minority of students who wrote words such as “arrogant,” but the absence of words like “liberty” is hard to ignore. I want to name the two historical events which I believe spawned this self-critical attitude. The first is Vietnam. Contrast it with World War II, which despite its horrors left Americans in a position to feel like brave champions of liberty—at the risk of revealing too much American arrogance—defenders of the free world. Vietnam was radically different. The justification was never clear, and the atrocities of war committed by Americans were televised. Back home, the Hippies were among a movement which saw the government as completely amoral and disconnected from the ideals that the people professed. That antiauthoritarian sense has endured (“damn the man,” we ambiguously say, where “the man” can be any and all authority), although I believe this feeling was shrinking through the 80’s and 90’s. At the risk of sparking the wrong debate, I present historical event #2: invasion of Iraq. Previously, even those of us who felt that human rights were often sacrificed to economic interests could imagine that such acts were planned in dark, hidden corners of the CIA or the Pentagon, far from the conscience of the American public. George Bush changed that. When congress proposed an anti-torture bill he threatened to veto. When the entire world is outraged at indefinite detention without trial in Guantanamo, he vehemently defends it without a trace of apology. People born rich often criticize wealth, Germany and Austria threaten (and impose!) jail sentences for those who trivialize the holocaust, and a religion’s defectors are often its harshest critics—all this to avoid being presumed guilty by association. At a time when all the world is angry at America, those Americans who despise the current policies (about half of us) cannot profess ideals of liberty without fearing that you’ll think us naive. Ask me again in a few years what I think of America and I hope that by then we won’t be afraid to use words like “liberty,” “democracy,” and “equality.”

By the way--many of the French I've met here have been surprised at the diversity of political opinion. In France is it widely perceived that everyone in America agrees with and supports the current administration?

Concernant le début, je pense aussi quand on rempli un questionnaire qui est destiné à être lu par une personne, on ne va pas l'insulter et même si beaucoup de personnes peuvent penser des choses négatives sur les Etats-Unis, ce fotrum est un lieu d'échange et non de règlement de compte.

De plus concernant ta dernière question, nathan, les français pensaient qu'au début Bush agissait par abus de pouvoir: président mal élu, issud'une famille de politiciens: on avait l'impression qu'il appliquait "sa" politique sans se soucier de l'avis des autres américains et surtout du reste du monde. Quand il a été réélu avec une bonne avance, les français ont compris que une grande partie du pays et que ce qui était apparu dans nos médias qui disaient que le peuple américain ne suivait pas Bush, est devenu relativement faux. Et les français ont eu l'impression que ce sentiment d'arrogance et le fait d'être sur de lui n'était pas le propre du président mais aussi de "tout le peuple américain" ( c'est une idée que je pousse à l'extrème ici masi qui n'est pas totalement inexacte pour certains), c'est pourquoi la rupture est plus importante maintenant. Mais comment jugez vous la politique de W? Est ce qu'il aussi populaire dans le nord, dans une université, que dans le "Texas profond" (atttention ceci est un cliché)?

Hi Alban. I don't think you could have picked any two locations in the USA that are more politically distinct than Texas and the universities of Boston. A few blocks from our campus you can even find a small office dedicated to promoting communism (outrageous in the States!), and the senators representing our state (Kerry and Kennedy) are mocked as "screaming liberals" on radio talk-shows nationwide. Still, there is wide diversity of opinion, and the students in this class are probably split approximately down the middle on W.

You should understand that the reelection vote was not as monolithic as it may appear, and the motives were complex. My own dear mother has been known to say that the GWB "needs a good spanking" yet couldn't bring herself to vote for his opponent. Issues that had nothing to do with geopolitics swayed her the other way.

We're generally reluctant to discuss politics here except among like-minded friends and on bumper stickers, so I hope nobody minds too much that I've deviated from the main topic.

Hatim:

I completely understand what you mean. As an American citizen, I can comprehend why the rest of the world might view us as invadors or over-powering. I'm not going to argue with that. What I resent to some extent is the fact that other countries seem to assume that all Americans are arrogant and greed-driven; not all of us voted for our current president, not all of us agree with the war, etc. Some of us are completely against the war (yes, I do not support the war). We don't have anything to do with there being McDonald's in every single corner of the world (well, maybe a little bit because I do like McNuggets). There are things which are simply out of our control.

In that same way, I can see that the French also have many different points of view and that is what I would like you to see. Sometimes getting into someone else's shoes can help you understand. So, think about what being an American must be like. I can say that it has some great advantages and some disadvantages as well. For example, I'll always treasure my US Passport. I can travel to many different countries without special Visas, but, at the same time, I have to know that in those countries I visit, they might see me as an intruder or just another dumb American tourist.

I would like to know a bit more about what you think about Americans? Are there any specific stereotypes that I might be able to clarify?