Cultura

You see a student next to you cheating on an exam. - Vous voyez un étudiant à côté de vous qui triche lors d'un examen.

Henri - 10:40am Oct 29, 2004
Il est très rare qu'un étudiant triche déjà...Mais si je voyais un étudiant entrain de tricher lors d'un examen, je ne dirais rien comme tout le monde je pense car un étudiant qui se fait attraper sur le fait prend une peine de 5 ans d'interdiction de passer des examens (permis de conduire par exemple). Il faut donc réfléchir à deux fois avant de tricher...

Jorge - 12:56am Nov 2, 2004
If I understood correctly Henri, you are penalized for cheating on a test by not being allowed to take tests for five years? This I find extremely interesting, and quite rash...could you, or anyone at Paris II, explain a bit more on this topic? What is the protocol that must be followed in such a case that you are caught? If you can't even take a driving permit test, I imagine that some sort of record must follow you for this time period that indicates you were caught doing such an act - does the law somehow come into play? This is very interesting, since I know not of any such regulation here in the US that oversees such a case. Please respond with more information on this topic.

Edgar - 01:39am Nov 2, 2004
I found it to be very interesting on how French students allow (or don't care) about classmates cheating on an exam. I don't know about in France, but in the United States cheating on an exam is an extremely severe breach of ethics, and as you go up the educational ladder, the more severe the rules against cheating get. In grammar school, cheating can get you in light trouble. In high school, it can get you to the Dean's office, a phone call to your parents, or suspension for a week. In college, it can get you as far as being expelled from the institution. And I guess Americans have an attitude of rejection toward cheating because Americans always champion the achievements of the INDIVIDUAL; if you succeed, you did so because your individual skills helped you succeed. So my question is, why are French students cool about letting classmates cheat?

Delphnie - 08:37am Nov 2, 2004
Nous sommes aussi cool vis-à-vis des tricheries des autres parcequ'en fait elles ne nous pénalisent pas. La plupart du temps, il ne s'agit pas de concours mais d'obtenir une moyenne minimum fixée. A partir du moment où cette moyenne est obtenue, l'examen est validé, quel que soit le nombre de personnes qui l'ont déjà aétteinte. Nous ne sommes pas en compétition dans nos examens, il n'y a pas de nombre de places minimum où de critère de rapidité.

gregory - 08:38am Nov 2, 2004
Je pense que la différence entre les réactions des français et des américains s'explique par le fait que les français sont condamnés à avoir de bonnes notes (rapport à l'élitisme), que les cours sont théoriques et ne demande finalement pas temps de production personnelle et en découle directement une solidarité efficiente entre les élèves. Alors qu'aux Etats Unis, le mode de pédagogie est très différent, et privilégie nettement la production personnelle.

Pablo - 09:11am Nov 2, 2004
Personnellement, je ne regarde jamais la feuille du voisin, alors je ne me sens pas coupable... "NON Monsieur, c'est ne pas moi, j'ai juste démandé l'heure, non, non, je vous jure que je lui ai pas demande la réponse 4.."

Edgar - 04:34am Nov 3, 2004
Very interesting responses from the French students. I can try to hypothesize what's going on in the American side. General American culture (at least from my point of view, which is the view of a foreigner) is very individualistic: it centers around the individual, and not society as a whole. Therefore, everyone just worries about themselves, and try to do the best they can for themselves. Therefore, when any American becomes succesful, he/she is very proud of their achievement and the way they arrived there. So, in a test situation, when you see someone cheating, you feel like it's not fair because 1) it's a threat to your own success (they will probably get a higher score than you), and 2) it defeats the whole sense of individualism. Moreover, not just in school, but in every situation in life, Americans tend to be very competitive. Everything is about showing who is "the best" at anything. And to show who's the best, one must do things alone. That's why many of us responded "they are only hurting themselves," because cheating on a test shows that you don't know the material, and that you are therefore not fit to have the same level of success I'm having. Errr... I hope that made sense. Also, the nature of the tests. Tests in the US are very time-centered, very conceptually challenging, so that one must concentrate on the problem at hand. Even if someone wanted to cheat, there is no time to cheat. Just an interesting off-track question. What do you guys think about tests with multiple choice questions? Tests in the US (at least in grammar school and high school, and even to some extent in college) are FULL of multiple-choice questions.

Tufool - Nuaimi
Like you said, Edgar, when you take an exam here, you have no time to cheat, so instead you concentrating on writing as much as you could. But also, i think academic honesty is a big deal. I've taken a few exams here where the professor walks out of the room, and still no one cheats. I was on an exchange program in England last year, and there were 10 invigilators (dressed in black gowns) during every exam. They also checked your calculators to see that you havent stored anything in them, and your pencil cases etc. I (and all the other American exchange students) were very intimidated by this. What is taking a test in France like?

Marie - 07:18pm Nov 3, 2004
I agree with my American classmates - cheating is a very big deal. Besides getting in a lot of trouble if you are caught, I would think cheating would bother my conscience a lot. However, when I see a fellow classmate cheating, I tend to "look the other way." I'm not exactly sure why this is, but I think it has to do with a sense of individuality. I feel that this person makes his/her own choices, and I am not going to interfere with his/her decisions. I guess what I'm saying is, if it doesn't affect me, I do nothing about it. I know this is a morally poor choice, but there it is. It is ironic that Edgar believes we hate cheaters because of our individualism, yet I do not stop cheaters because of individualism.

Jorge - 07:35pm Nov 3, 2004
I also find it odd that Edgar pointed out that, if a person is cheating off of you, they may do better than you. The reason why some Americans, and maybe the French, don't care or point it out is that they are not, in fact, going to do better than you. If this person is cheating, then obviously they do not know the material, and thus do not know nearly as much as you (assuming that you do know what you're doing, or that you yourself are not cheating). Overall, this person will not do better in life than you (which is a real threat to one's individualism) since they will not be able to understand what they are doing, and prove to be incompetent. So it can't be that they threaten your individualistic need to succeed and be better than everyone else, but that you have worked hard to learn and understand the material, and would not appreciate if someone got your answers and thus have done no work themselves to receive a similar grade. Just my point of view...

Edgar - 08:10pm Nov 3, 2004
To Jorge: you're right; I may be wrong in saying that the person cheating is going to do better than you, but man does my experience tell me otherwise. It just so happens that in most of my academic experience the person cheating is cheating off a really smart person (I mean, come on, if you're going to cheat, DO IT RIGHT).

Xiaojie - 12:30am Nov 4, 2004
A question for the French students: don't you think cheating is morally wrong? In addition to reflecting American individualism, I think our responses represent America's puritan origins. People are expect to work hard and be honest. Also, in the workplace in France, is teamwork and collaboration common? I am just wondering because Gregory mentioned pedigogical ideologies. My major, at least, emphaisizes teamwork because they find it is a skill students need to develope to function in industry. More MessagesRecent MessagesAll MessagesOutline (2 following messages)