Religion / Religion
Adil - 08:10am Oct 12, 2004
Dans mon idée des Etats-Unis sur la religion, je voyais les américains très puritains. J'ai pu, en effet, voir que la religion est pour vous importante. Mais vous y voyez aussi des dangers. Je voulais savoir, qu'est ce que vous appelez "christianity"? Je pense que vous avez fait la même analyse de nous. Mais les réponses de mes camarades ne représentent pas ce que pensent tous les français. LUniversité Assas est, en effet, connue pour son attachement à la religion et à une France traditionnaliste. Ainsi, même si certains de mes camarades peuvent vous paraître légèrement islamophobe ou pro-catholique, ils représentent une minorité. Je voulais également savoir si vous voyez la France comme un pays antisémite?
Pascal - 02:50am Oct 14, 2004
Quand on demande aux Américains et aux Français d'associer des mots au nom Religion, on s'aperçoit que la majorité des personnes interrogées, qu'elles soient françaises ou américaines,pensent à Dieu, au christianisme. Les Américains s'attachent à décrire les croyances et les rites en parlant de Dieu ,Jésus, église, croix,... Les Français citent le plus souvent le catholicisme.Pour les uns comme pour les autres la Religion est associée aux grands moments de la vie: mariage, mort,...Pour certains Américains et Français, la Religion conduit au fanatisme, à la discrimination et est source de conflits et de guerre.Un petit nombre de Français et d'américains estiment que la Religion est nécessaire à l'épanouissement de la vie spirituelle. En conclusion, on ne note des différences flagrantes entre ce qu'évoque la Religion pour les Américains et les Français.
Jorge - 09:27pm Oct 15, 2004
To respond to Adil's questions - I'm not too sure what you mean by "what do you call christianity." Christianity, at least to me, means any religion that has it's core belief in Jesus Christ and his teachings...for example, I consider Catholicism and Protestantism to be both "sects" of Christianity - other Americans may consider the idea of Christianity differently. I don't think most Americans think of France as an anti-semitic country...I think France is diverse when it comes to religions, and is tolerant of this diversity. However, this does bring to mind an interesting pattern in the word associations to religion: the U.S. side did not recognize that many religions of the world (mainly Catholicism) whereas the French side recognized Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Atheism. This may say something about the exposure of the U.S. to other religions other than Christianity, or maybe even its tolerance to them. What do the French think about America's tolerance to different religions?
Edgar - 03:23am Oct 17, 2004
I was interested in the fact that many French students wrote down different religions (for example: Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, etc...) but only one person put down "church". Do French go to church often? I know that, for example, here in the US I have many friends that call themselves "Christians" yet do not go to church.
This gets to Adil's question, which is a really good one. Like Jorge said, a "Christian" person is someone who beliefs in Jesus Christ and his teachings. And as he also nicely pointed out, you can think of Catholics and Protestants as two different sects of Christianity. And, in my experience, even the Protestant sect is extremely divided. You have Jehova's Witnesses, 7th-Day Adventists, and many others.
To Pascal: you made an excellent point that religion sometimes leads to misunderstandings, discrimination, and even war. For example, an unfortunate side-effect of the attacks of September 11th on the US was that some Americans viewed it not only as an attack by terrorists, but an attack by the Muslim community in general. Aside from this unfortunate misjudgement by many Americans, I believe Americans are rather tolerant of other religions. I too, ask the question that Jorge asked: how tolerant are French people of other religions?
Evans - 12:42pm Oct 17, 2004
I agree with most of the dialogue analyzing the associations of both of our classes of students, but I think there's an important misconception in your second paragraph, Edgar.
While the term "Christian" is generally applied to a person who believes in Jesus and his teachings, the two sects you have listed believe that he is the son of God, but also God himself. Anyways, these sects (Protestants and Catholics) are not the only sects of Christianity, and, it's improtant to note, Jehovah's Witnesses are not a sect of Protestantism, but a different sect entirely, which denies the deity of Christ.
While we're at it, I think the term "Christian" is more often applied to Protestants than Catholics in America, since Catholics are most often called...Catholics. Just for clarification, and check me if I'm wrong about this, but the core difference between Protestants and Catholics is not their view of Jesus, but their deification of Mary, the Pope, and the saints, in addition to the belief in absolution and purgatory.
As a final comment on the subject, in response to the first reply, I don't think anyone think France is antisemitic...and I hope nobody in France thinks we have any such bias.
Lauren - 05:43pm Oct 17, 2004
what do the french think of laws banning head scarves and other religous items from being worn at school, etc.? I think laws like this are where some of the American feeling that the French are anti-Muslim comes from. In the US we pretend that religion and the state are seperated (in truth a big lie!) but the belief in individual rights is so strong, it's difficult to regulate what people wear.
Andres - 06:46pm Oct 17, 2004
I found the answers to be very similar in general, but I also noted the diversity of religions mentioned on the French side. This strikes me, since America is a melting pot of ethnicities and cultures. No doubt, France is also diverse. I might propose two explanations: either religion is a more controversial issue in France, or religions like Islam are becoming stronger in France through immigration and this makes Frenchmen be more aware of other religions. Any thoughts?
Marie - 08:23pm Oct 17, 2004
In response to the question "do Americans view France as an anti-semitic country?" I can certainly say I have never thought of France as an anti-semitic society or country in any way. Why do you think that we might think this? Do you feel that France is anti-semitic? On the subject of religion, I feel that America is much less a "melting-pot" than it tries to portray. Though on the whole, American society may believe itself to be accepting and tolerant, from my own experiences I have not found this to be true. Many Americans I meet have strong feelings about their religion and are not very open-minded about other religions. Are French people this way as well?
Alejandro - 10:00pm Oct 17, 2004
I agree with Evans, I usually hear Christian and Protestant as synonyms and Catholics as Catholics only. I'm surprised nobody mentioned Mormons, the most American of all Christian sects! Not that I'm one or that I care. All in all, I agree with most other comments made elsewhere.
Tufool - Nuaimi
Lauren- i've been waiting on an answer for the ban on relious-items at school. I had this talk with one of my French friends, and he said that it would make going to school easier on the kids. No one would get bullied because they have a scarf on their head etc. Sometime i think maybe it was a good idea? I don't know, i'd like to hear it from the french side. You know whats interesting though? I was in Tunisia this summer, (population 90% muslim) and the kids at school and university can't wear religious items to school.
Evans - 11:36pm Oct 18, 2004
My two cents on religion is school is just an excerpt from some old American document: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Clearly this prohibits the free exercise of religion. Not that the views of our forefathers are respected very much in today's society, but they should be.
pierre - 09:19am Oct 19, 2004
je veux juste ajouter et clarifier un peu l'idée a propos de la france la france etait tellement un pays pour toutes les nationalités ,pour toutes les religions et pour toutes les personnes qui esperent vivre en paix ,,la france reste toujours le symbole de la democratie et de la liberté dans le monde,et biensur qu'elle n'est pas un pays antisemiste ,on a tous vu la defense du president JAQUES CHIRAC pour les juifs qui se sont sentis menacés a un moment,,meme le gouvernement israilien a présenté son support et son regret pour la politique francaise
Marie - 09:16pm Oct 24, 2004
Just another quick question. Is there anything in the French Constitution that clarifies separation of church and state? Could you tell me where that issue stands in France? For example, are students allowed hold prayer meetings in school? Thank you for telling me what you thought of the anti-semitic atmosphere in France.
Robert - 04:17am Oct 25, 2004
For Adil, what gives you the impression that America is puritanical? Is it because of our leaders, our culture, americans you've met?
Alejandro - 12:55am Oct 26, 2004
In a poll relating religion (Muslims in particular) and politics, it was found by the IFOP that declared Muslims prefer prefer Jacques Chirac significantly more than the combined French population. It is suggested that this might be due to France's policies about the Iraq war, the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the reinforced diplomatic relations with Algeria and Morocco. Muslims don't like the prime minister Raffarin as much as the combined population, but I didn't understand why. Also, Muslims have moved significantly to the left from March to September of this year (04).
I thought the first couple of points were interesting because they do show a France that supports Muslims in the world, not just in France, as opposed to the US which might somewhat support Muslims inland but not at all internationally (except for Bush's friends, of course).
http://www.ifop.com/europe/sondages/opinionf/polmusulmansfranc.asp
Pascal - 11:04am Oct 29, 2004
Pour moi le mot chretien n'est pas synonyme de protestant ou catholique. Ce mot definie un ensemble constitué des chatholiques, des protestants et des orthodoxes. Les catholiques et les protestant se ressemblent Ils ne se différencient que par rapport à certains points de vue.
Pierre - 11:07am Oct 29, 2004
A mon avis la religion a toujours été source de conflit, et ceci depuis la nuit des temps. Les croyances (j'insiste bien sur le mot croyance) sont personnelles et ne devraient plus, dans nos pays respectifs, être sujets d'actualité ou de discussion. En effet je trouve que cela est trop personnel et ne devrait pas rentrer en compte dans nos relations. La présence des religions est dangereuse car certaines peuvent motiver aveuglement des gens à agir. On peut critiquer les islamistes (ce courant extremiste qu'il ne faut pas amalgamer avec la religion musulmane modérée) dans leur façon d'agir au nom de leurs croyances. Mais la présence de la religion au sein du pouvoir américain est aussi un risque à ne pas négliger. Que penser d'un pouvoir central (votre président qui prie avant ses réunions en compagnie de ses conseillés) ou d'une justice (qui comporte des allusions à la religion ou qui fait jurer sur la Bible) qui ne sont pas totalement objectifs et neutres. Je pense que la laïcité est l'avenir de l'homme: je veut dire par là que les croyances personnelles doivent être conservées par chacun (c'est une liberté fondamentale) mais ne jamais être prises en compte par les pouvoirs publics. Les gouvernements religieux ont toujours entraîné des conflits. Si toutes les institutions et toutes les relations se faisaient de manière laïque, l'actualité internationale pourrait être bien moins chargée en drame. Qu'il s'agisse d'extremisme idéologique ou religieux, il ne faut en rien les amalgamer avec les idées dont ils découlent. Votre président n'est pas un fanatique religieux et votre voisin de palier musulman n'est pas un terroriste. Si toutes ces idées religieuses pouvaient être gommées de la façon dont on perçoit les gens, le monde ne s'en porterait que mieux. Pourquoi chacun ne garderait pas pour lui ses croyances (ce qui est tout à fait respectable) ... ainsi les conflits internationaux comme personnels pourraient peut-être s'estomper.