You see a mother in a supermarket slap her child. - Vous voyez une mère dans un supermarché donner une gifle à son enfant.
David - 01:56am Nov 2, 2004
To those of you who said that you would be shocked if you saw a mother slap her child: why? Don't you think everyone has his or her own way of raising children? Kids can be pretty complicated so physical punishment is necessary to a certain point in some cases.
Lauren - 08:14am Nov 2, 2004
I personally think that kids shouldn't be slapped by anyone especially their mom. I think if you fear your child will be so complicated you have to hit it you might want to think twice about having kids. that said, I understand that some parents need ritualized violence like a spanking etc. to make them feel like they are in charge, but to me slaps in the supermarket don't quite fit the bill. When I see this happen I always wonder if the caretaker is actually the mom/dad or some over taxed babysitter. Thus though it may seem off topic, I was wondering what the situation is with day-care in France.
gregory - 08:29am Nov 2, 2004
Je suis particulièrement d'accord avec lauren. Les parents doivent faire preuve d'autorité vis à vis de leurs enfants, mais il ne faut pas être excessif. Le rôle d'une mère n'est pas de frapper son enfant, mais plutôt de lui faire comprendre qu'il est dans l'erreur. Dans ce cas, ce qui me gène, c'est plus le côté "mise en scène" que la gifle en elle-même.
Delphnie - 08:32am Nov 2, 2004
La gifle en soi de me dértange absolument pas, à partir du moment où elle est justifiée et où elle n'est pas douloureuse. Les gifles nont pas besoin d'être violentes : la punition ne réside pas dans la force du "coup" mais dans l'"humilitation" que l'enfant peut en retirer. Donc une gifle qui n'est pas forte ne me pose aucun problème.
Henri - 08:37am Nov 2, 2004
Je suis d'accord avec mes collègues et avec Laurent Robert, il ne faut pas dépasser le cadre éducatif de la gifle, l'éducation étant le moyen de sortir l'enfant de la déroute et de la banqueroute. Donc la gifle peut être bénéfique pour le mener dans le droit chemin.
marie - 08:48am Nov 2, 2004
Je crois qu'on réagis un peu tous de la même façon !!! Les parents doivent fixer des limites pour l'éducation des enfants. Evidemment la gifle doit être justifiée. Dans un supermarché, l'enfant se sent d'autant plus humilié car il y a des gens qui le regarde. Cela aura plus d'impact!!! Cela forme le caractère!!!!
Edgar - 04:49am Nov 3, 2004
Actually, the French students, in their responses, made a pretty interesting point. When you see a mom slap her child in a supermarket, some of the people wrote that they don't immediately see the mom as evil, but sit back and analyze, "could it be the child's fault?" And man, let me tell you, there are a lot of stubborn kids out there nowadays. Fine, kids like to be adventurous and stuff, but sometimes they just cross the line, and parents have the right to teach them the right behavior. Now, if the way the kids learn is by a slap, then go ahead.
Sometimes I think culture makes a difference. Back in my country (I know, I say this a lot... but I'm really interested in cultural differences and how it shapes people's actions and thoughts), not only do you see a mother slap the child in the supermarket (or any other open, public space), but you may see her take off her belt and give the kid a full-blown beating right there on the spot. This way, the kid knows that he should never do what he did, ever again.
On the other hand, some parents are just straight-up abusive. They are angry about how their lives are going, and they take out their frustrations on their children (many people's frustration in the United States is related to financial situation, and the kids are directly related to someone's finance--one has to pay for their food, clothes, etc etc etc). So that is why it is hard to tell whether the kid is acting stupid or the parent is abusive.
Marie - 07:24pm Nov 3, 2004
A question to the French students: How big a problem is child abuse in France? I am part Japanese, and my mother has always talked about the difference in the way parents treat their children in different cultures. For example, I think, in America, the greatest problem in child abuse is neglect. Maybe this has to do with individualism - abusive parents are only concerned with themselves and leave their children to fend entirely for themselves when they are too young? What is the main type of child abuse in France? Are abusive parents mostly physically, sexually, or emotionally abusive? This could settle my hypothesis of neglect stemming from a very individualistic society.
Alejandro - 01:08am Nov 4, 2004
My point of view is that kids are primitive psychological machines. You know how babies learn to cry for attention as opposed to need? I feel some kids think they can control their parents (some parents just give everything to their children) and get away with everything, and slapping them in supermarkets or whatever helps put the kid in its place. It doesn't make sense for an adult to do that because adults know where they stand, but some kids need to be told in this primitive way that they are not in charge, that they can't do everything they want and that they should respect others.
However, I approve slapping only as this psychological tool. I don't approve child abuse and I also know some parents are not good parents at all. But in a supermarket I think you can tell if a mom is slapping her kid for his or her own good or if the mom wants to kill her boy or girl with the slap.
Does anybody else observe this psychological phenomenon?
Esther - 01:52am Nov 4, 2004
While I definitely believe in strict disciplining, I'm not sure that a slap to the face is very appropriate because it is rather violent. Normally, when I think of corrective measures, I don't think of slapping, but I think of spanking instead.
Frances - 08:58am Nov 4, 2004
I think that if parents feel the need to physically discipline their children, it should be done in the privacy of their home, specifically because it is humiliating. Delphine and Marie Elisabeth both mention that the humiliation aspect of the slap is what teaches the child, but I feel that children (even if they are naughty) go through a lot of emotional turmoil and the embarrassment of being slapped by their mother in public is something they may remember if it becomes a habit, and this will affect the child's self perception negatively. I respect parents' right to educate their children, but at the same time, I feel that a mother slapping their child in public is something most people don't want to see, perhaps similar to breastfeeding in public.
Lauren - 11:01am Nov 4, 2004
hey! I think breast feeding in public is okay, but am not for slapping. People seem to think that slapping a child in public will teach him/her that this behavior is wrong and they will never do it again. if hitting actually was this effective I think we'd see a lot less of it because it would only happen once for every child! in fact I don't know that it really teaches a whole lot. my parents only spanked me once. I don't even remember, but they said it was so awful they couldn't do it again. I suppose it taught them.
I think you should just strap the child in the cart with the seat belt, that would keep them in place no?
Andres - 09:00am Nov 5, 2004
I wouldn't myself slap my children in public (or anywhere, for that matter). I agree with those saying that the humiliation is unnecessary and I believe that physical aggression of any kind can lead a kid to a trauma and anger towards his parents. I like discipline in children, but there are many other methods of attaining it, although these might not be as easy to apply as violence. I do think, however, that raising children has no unique recipe.
Alejandro - 12:02am Nov 8, 2004
I think humiliation (but not excesive) is part of the mechanism of learning for a kid. You can't sit down and reason with a very little kid that stealing is bad, say, because it contradicts Kant's moral theory of the universal law, or something. Children learn they shouldn't steal (or do other bad things) because or else they get slapped and they get humiliated. It sounds sad but in some cases it's not possible to reason with children and this is the alternative. Of course, some children won't do anything bad if they're simply told not to do it. It depends on the kid.
Andres - 05:28pm Nov 15, 2004
Just as part of my personal experience: What my parents did when I misbehaved was not to slap me or beat me, or humiliate me in public. They would tell me to go sit on a bench in our patio and stay there without doing anything until they said I could leave. So for my siblings and I, the bench was The Bench, we certainly didn't want to go there. If you didn't obey, they would be angry at you, or you'd be forced to remain on the Bench for a longer period of time. As I grew up, I could only be grateful to my parents because they deliberately avoided violence and humiliation, and even so disciplined us, just through an ingenious method. See, Alejandro?
Frances - 03:02am Nov 17, 2004
I agree with Andres. I don't really think that because it may be difficult to explain the exact reasons why one should or should not do something that parents should take the "easy way" and physically slap and humiliate their children. That doesn't seem to make sense. There are ways to explain general concepts to children; they are often more insightful that we give them credit for. Teaching children to do/not do things because of physical punishment is not really something that would be sustainable... What do you do with a 15 year old who's bigger than you but has grown up to only not do things that he/ she gets physically punished for? What kind of message would that send? Once they can resist the physical punishment/abuse, isn't it possible that they will think that they don't have any rules they need to follow? Just something to consider....