A good student is someone / Un bon étudiant est quelqu'un
Tingting - 08:43pm Oct 21, 2004
For Americans, there is more of an emphasis on understanding what one learns, and not just simply working hard to get good grades. Most good students work hard, but not all comprehend or retain what they learn.
Angela - 12:55am Oct 22, 2004
I agree that the Americans do put more emphasis on comprehension, although to be fair, the responses were very similar in general for both groups. What I found most amusing was that both the French and American students feel that one component of a good student is the ability to party!
GERSENDE - 10:39am Oct 22, 2004
En France, les étudiants travaillent dur pour avoir de bonnes notes et donc avoir le diplome choisi, avec une mention si possible. Les étudiants passionnés par leur domaine comme celui de la médecine, travaillent beaucoup mais dans une logique de compréhension de la matière. Je pense qu'ils sont moins attachés à la notation que les personnes qui étudient dans des filières généralistes, ceci dit, je ne veux pas généraliser !Je rajoute également que les étudiants français aiment beaucoup faire la fête !!!!
a - 11:26am Oct 22, 2004
Les français utilisent beaucoup le mot travail par rapport aux américains. La définition des américains est plus complète. Les français ont une image festive de l'étudiant, tandis que les américains ont une image beaucoup plus sèrieuse. Je pense que les étudiants américains sont mieux organisés et prennent plus leur travail au sèrieux, que les étudiants français. Avez-vous le même point de vu que moi ?
Adil - 11:33am Oct 22, 2004
Angela E Kilby Je suis d'accord avec toi. Quand on est étudiant, la chose la plus importante est de savoir faire la fête. Apprendre, comprendre, c'est important également, mais quand on est jeune, il y a dans notre tête, deux mots gravés :"carpe diem".
Jorge - 05:49pm Oct 23, 2004
Taking into account these comments, especially A. Piquet's, it's important to point out a few things. MIT is not the token American university...in fact, it's far from it. Most students here have experienced a skewed view of college life, where most of our time is devoured by class and work, and little time is reserved for fun and partying. I completely agree with the opinion that a good student knows how to party and enjoy life when he/she is not studying, but I think that we at MIT don't have nearly as much time to party than most other students in the U.S., and possibly also those at Paris II. That's why our opinions may seem more serious, although I'm sure that the students at Paris II take their education as seriously.
Of course, I could be wrong in assuming that students at Paris II have more time to party, but I ask, on average, how many times a week do you (students at Paris II) get to go out per week (assuming you've finished all your work, etc.)? Most students at MIT can only go out a couple of nights per week, Friday and Saturday. All other nights we have to stay in and finish all the work for the week, or at least that's what I've noticed. Anybody else think so too?
Alejandro - 08:31pm Oct 24, 2004
I agree Jorge, MIT is definitely not famous for partying, but hey, some of us try to have fun! Also, this could explain the first remark about us having more emphasis on understanding what we learn, not just do work like crazy. I think this is also an MIT-specific notion of a good student and not a general American point of view. I don't think most Americans bother understanding what they learn (take Bush for example). Ok, I'll stay away from politics for now...
Brian - 09:48pm Oct 24, 2004
I had some experience visiting people at ENS Cachan - and I know that at lease when compared to MIT, they partied quite a bit more than we did. I think Tuesday nights were their campus party night where there would be a big dance party with lots of cheap (1 Euro per beer) drinks. Although there are definitely students at every college who party more than others. Of course, that might have been my impression just because I was visiting and didn't have to do any work!
Angela - 12:52am Oct 25, 2004
While it may be true that MIT students party less than most Americans and most French students (and I think it is) I'm not sure that there really is a difference that can be seen in the responses. Partying occured in a similar frequency (3 v. 4 times) as did working and other serious words. Is that really displaying a different attitude?
Edgar - 09:38pm Oct 25, 2004
In response to Aurelie's comment. First, about your post. I would say I'm quite familiar with it by now given it came out as "document to analyze" in our exam this morning.
But I have a question. I noticed that most of the Paris II students wrote "... that studies regularly." How intense is this studying? How exactly does the French university system work in terms of homework, examinations, lectures, etc?
Anyway, I do agree with you about American students. School work is taken very seriously here, and not just at MIT, but American universities (and I will go as far as saying that for many high schools as well). Students are extremely competitive, and will sacrifice many things in order to get their work done on time and/or well.
Jorge, I guess I can see where your comment about MIT not being a "big party school" comes from. That may hold now, but during my freshman year and before MIT was a BIG party school, before the administration took steps to reduce the freedom of fraternities, who I guess were the biggest social outlet places on MIT campus.
Edgar - 11:52pm Oct 25, 2004
To back up my statement about student dedications from above. I will be referencing numbers from this site:
http://www.publicagenda.org/press/press_release_detail.cfm?list=5
This article is mostly about high school students asking their schools for higher educational and professional standards. For example, about 70% (7 in 10) high school students think they would pay more attention in class if they were faces with higher standards. Also, 8 in 10 teens say that if disruptive students were removed from classes, they would be able to learn better. I encourage people to look at this article, as it has some interesting qualities to it.
How does this relate to the whole thing of what a good student is? It shows that American students do value what they learn in school. If they did not, then they would not be asking for their schools to imporse higher standards. Second, good students want to learn in an atmosphere with no bad students. By "bad" student, I mean one that is disruptive in class, doesn't do his work, and doesn't motivate others to do work.
Esther - 02:46am Oct 26, 2004
The atmosphere of studying differs with each school. MIT is not your typical party school, and people are very much focused on their academics, which is not to say that they do not know how to have fun and party. However, there are colleges in the U.S. at which the students are known to party all the time. I do agree with the general consensus among MIT students that American students value what they learn in class.
Angela - 01:02am Oct 28, 2004
There is a large difference between American and European universities that may have an impact on how we feel about what makes a good student. In America, we focus every week on our work, with problem sets and papers due throughout the semester. However, in France and in Europe more generally, there is much more emphasis placed on final exams, and much less placed week-to-week work. Perhaps the european system is conducive to slacking until the last few weeks, and hence a good student is one who works constantly and doesn't procrastinate, and does work every week? While for us doing work all the time is a given so we focus more on getting beyond that, being better than that, and actually really understanding what you're doing?
pierrehokayem - 10:58am Oct 29, 2004
A mon avis ,le système éducatif américain facilite à ses étudiants d'attaquer le marché proffessionnel le plus tot possible ,il leur donne la liberté de choisir les matieres et l'horaire qui leur conviennent et c'est ce qu'on appelle le systeme de CREDIT .par contre le système francais est plus dur et beaucoup plus chargé et qui ne laisse pas le choix à ses etudiants de controler leurs horaires ,mais ce qui est vraiment important chez nous c'est que les etudiants sont obligés à faire des stages chaque année ,ces stages leur aident et leur poussent a rentrer la vie professionnel peu à peu pour devenir des bons patrons dans l'avenir
gregory - 11:17am Oct 29, 2004
Réponse à Angela: La différence entre les cours aux Etats Unis et les cours en France sont la conséquence directe de notre rapport au travail. Les cours aux USA sont plus concrets et plus pratiques. L'objectif pour vous est donc de vous investir personnellement dans votre travail, de discerner ce que vous faites et pourquoi vous le faites. Au contraire, du fait de notre organisation universitaire et de notre rapport à l'élitisme, les étudiants français recoivent des cours beaucoup plus théoriques qui ne leur permet pas de s'impliquer pleinement et personellement dans leur travail. Notre but étant d'incurgiter ce trop plein de théorie, et de le "recracher" en partiels. Mais encore une fois, nous ne pouvons pas faire de généralités, puisque il existe en France, de multiples pédagogies selon que vous soyez dans telles Universités, telles écoles et suivant quelles filières. Pour conclure, j'aimerais savoir si le système américain donne une valeur aux étudiants en fonction de leurs résultats? Si la valeur des notes est importante pour réaliser vos rêves? (Sachant que si vous étudiez au MIT, c'est que vous deviez tous avoir des notes déjà brillantes)
Marie - 07:32am Nov 2, 2004
Hello! Gregory, you talk about the practical courses that we have at universities here in America. It is very true that we take courses that have the objective of preparing us for our careers and future work. We take lab courses and do research on subjects that we might like to work on in the future. But there are also several courses and majors that are very theoretical and are not always viewed as useful in the working world. For example, my brother, who is also here at MIT, is majoring in Theoretical, or Pure Mathematics. Though he could major in Applied Mathematics, he enjoys the deep thought that comes with theoretical work. This choice of major is not especially in demand in the working world, but he will find work somewhere. In America, many universities offer majors in Philosophy or other theoretical subjects. Some universities offer ranking to their students - for example, summa cum laude, magna cum laude, cum laude. This is based on the students' grade point averages. However, here at MIT, we do not have that sort of ranking system. We do have grade point averages, however. Also, many students in the US spend a great part of their high school lives striving to get into a prestigious college, since they believe graduating from a "good" school will guarantee them a good job.
Xiaojie - 07:58pm Nov 7, 2004
To answer Gregory's question, people like to tell us that grades do not matter in the long run, but MIT students spend a lot of time worrying about their grades anyway, simply because the students here are very intense and competitive in nature. I think in engineering, it's less important to get good grades because it's not necessary to go to grad school. We have a lot of "pre-meds" at MIT who worry about grades because it's extremely competitive to get into medical school here. So, in summary, no I don't think Americans stress the importance of grades, think it is just the competitive nature of the students here.
Xiaojie - 08:01pm Nov 7, 2004
Just wondering, do the French students do homework on the weekends? Students in Cambridge, England have an "8-8-8" rule, which is 8 hours of work, 8 hours of sleep, plus 8 hours of play a day. Anything like that in France?