Suburbs / Banlieue
Marie - Sophie Kurschat
Pour les américains, la banlieue est plutot synonyme de bonheur, d'espaces verts et de tranquilité, loin de la métropole où tout le monde travaille. Contrairement à la France où nous voyons plutôt la banlieue comme un endroit sale, mal fréquenté, et surtout qui est synonyme de cités... Peut-etre y a-t-il des problèmes de sécurité que la France n'arrive pas à régler dans ces zones de non droit.
Pierre - 08:25am Oct 12, 2004
La vision de la zone périphérique des grandes villes est totalement différente entre France et Etats-unis. En effet aux USA les personnes les personnes aisées ont plus tendance à s'installer en banlieue ce qui fait de ces endroits des havres de paix. Au contraire en France ce sont les personnes avec les plus grandes difficultés financières qui sont installées dans les banlieues qui deviennent des zones de non-droit. Ceci entraîne une insécurité dans ces quartiers. Ce que l'on appelle en France les cailleras (bad boys, gangstas) sont ces jeunes en difficultés qui, faute de travail et de motivation, préfère instaurer un climat d'insécurité au sein de leur ville. C'est pourquoi la vie dans ces banlieues est actuellement difficile, une comparaison intéressante avec les USA peut être faite avec certains quartiers au centre des grandes villes.
Jorge - 09:44pm Oct 15, 2004
This was something that struck me as very odd too, since the U.S. mostly relates the suburbs as a place where one goes to build a family, have a nice home, and live a less congested (and possibly happier) life than in the city. The cost of living, it can be said, is generally the same in the suburbs than in the city. Is this the same in France? Is it wrong to propose that the inner cities in France have a much higher price of living than the suburbs, which is why the suburbs are related more to the ghetto and bad parts of France?
Edgar - 02:53am Oct 17, 2004
Hello everyone. To Pierre: you mention something about "troubled young people" that prefer to live in the suburbs of France. I'm curious about some things: who are these kids? Are they native French? And if so, of what race? If not, are they immigrants?
The reason why I ask this is because in the United States, race and ethnicity have a big impact on who lives where. For example, I come from New York City, and this city has historically been associated with immigrants and African Americans. It would be safe to generalize this for most of the United States: many cities are populated by immigrants and minorities, and most suburbs are populated by middle-class and upper class majority citizens. This difference has to do with historical trends: for example, immigrants always moved to cities when they first came to the United States; there was a big wave of African Americans that moved to cities after World War II; and at the same time, suburbs, or "Levittowns" were developing.
Lauren - 05:31pm Oct 17, 2004
someone at IUP associated the suburbs with HLM. I am wondering if there are only or mostly public housing projects in the suburbs in France. Here, housing projects (and as others have indicated things associated with the french suburb) are more commonly associated with the inner city.
Xiaojie - 06:07pm Oct 17, 2004
It is interesting that Pierre mentions the gangsters live in the suburbs, whereas in the U.S., the gangs are mostly found in the 'inner city.' Perhaps this is a reflection of an individualist versus a communal society? In America, people seek space and privacy. Therefore, living out in the suburbs, or having or own space and privacy, is a privilage. In France, on the other hand, living in the suburbs is akin to banishment from society. Is it correct to descibe those living in the French suburbs as 'outcasts'?
Esther - 09:42pm Oct 17, 2004
Many of us who grew up in the suburbs think that they are "sheltered" and "boring." I'm curious as to what the French think of the cities in which they grew up.
Tufool - Nuaimi
I always thought of the suburbs as a quiet place, lots of trees and flowers, even lakes maybe? It was a place that my parents took us to, as we were growing up, some weekends just to get out of the city. But the word "suburb" to the french is completely the opposite. the "banlieue" was a word that was associated to violence, drugs, etc. Some reasons that came to mind was that perhaps it wasnt expensive to live there, and maybe there aren't jobs etc. I was wondering if there was any reasons for this, and also i wanted to know if there were places in France that are seen as the american definition of suburbs (ie, quiet, pleasant etc)
Brian - 11:13pm Oct 17, 2004
I also found this pretty interesting. I have only had minimal experience with French suburbs, but from what I could tell, there was definitely a higher proportion of crime, and there were a large number of immigrants in the communities surrounding Paris. I think what happens a lot is that the taxes are really the only support base for community schools and the like. Since smaller communities will have less taxes, I think that ends up being a larger problem in France than it would in the US where there are larger bodies like states to control where taxes are sent. Of course I'd like to hear about it from the French side as well.
Angela - 04:29am Oct 18, 2004
An interesting fact: there was recently a study which concluded that Americans who live in the suburbs are likely to die earlier. This is probably because they spend 2-3 hours a day in their car, work 55 hours a week so that they can have that new big-screen tv, and lust after the next-biggest size of SUV that they can't afford. Has anyone ever seen American Beauty? It is the perfect picture of the deadness of the American suburbian landscape. The development of dead holes in the middle of American cities (aside from a few like Boston and NYC) as far as I can tell is the direct result of the development of the car in the early days of our cities, plus the effect of having tons of space. I was born in Houston, where there is no zoning, and it just extends as far as the eye can see - about 90 miles in diameter - because no one feels the need to rebuild an old building, they just abandon it and build a new one.
The interesting result of this relates to the discussion on the word individualism, as American families tend to be very isolated, and are not part of the larger community in which they live (apart perhaps from a small neighborhood). There is no sense of being a "Houstonian" but rather you are just someone who lives there. Another connection to the lack of American social policy?
Henri - 09:26am Oct 19, 2004
Personnellement, je pense que la situation dans les banlieues s'améliore progressivement. Même si les problèmes d'agression, de drogue, d'insécurité existent, les médias ont tendance à se focaliser sur ces problèmes là ce qui provoque la mauvaise image que les gens ont de la banlieue. Sans occulter les problèmes qu'il y a, il faut aussi mettre en avant ceux qui font des études, ceux qui réussissent à s'en sortir (sport, musique, études, etc.). Je pense que la seule solution pour régler les problèmes dans les banlieues est la démolition des barres et des tours dégradées et de reconstruire des petits immeubles à taille humaine.
ChaLing - 11:31pm Oct 24, 2004
I was wondering if there was a french equivalent to our American suburbs. Besides the cities, where do the upper-middle class of French society live?? Are there white picket fences and soccer moms and old golden retrievers with perfect coats hiding somewhere in France?
Aparna - 08:21pm Oct 25, 2004
I had the same question as Chaling. Do all the upper middle class individuals in France live in cities? Are all the 'suburbs' bad places to live?
Henri - 07:54am Oct 26, 2004
Bien sûr que non, il y n'a pas que des endroits difficiles en France et dans les banlieues. Pour te répondre ChaLING, il y a également une population aisée qui vit en France. Les gens riches vivent aussi bien en ville qu'en province. La classe moyenne préfère elle de plus en plus aller vivre en banlieue où les loyers sont moins chers qu'à Paris. Il faut distinguer banlieue "chic" et la banlieue "choc". Je pense qu'il y a beaucoup plus de lieux tranquilles en banlieue que de quartiers difficiles et que la majorité est située en Seine-Saint-Denis (plus que 40 cités sensibles).
Marie - Sophie Kurschat
Moi je voudrais dire en reponse aux questions posées sur la bourgeoisie française, qu'effectivement ce n'est pas dans les banlieues qu'on la trouve. En tous cas pas dans les banlieues "nord". C'est surtout dans le coté ouest de Paris, puis en Province. Mais généralement les banlieues des grandes villes françaises ne sont pas habitées par la bourgeoisie.
Esther - 08:56am Nov 8, 2004
I just read an article about the rap and hip-hop culture in France. I was surprised to read that France is second the the U.S. as a producer and consumer of rap. The article also described the rap scene in the suburbs of France. I never realized how strong the rap and hip-hop culture was in France. What do you think?