Cultura

You see a mother in a supermarket slap her child. / Vous voyez une mère dans un supermarché donner une gifle à son enfant.

When is the time to speak up?
Posted by Susanna on March 1, 2004
Looking into the reactions of students from the US and from France, the sense of 'this is none of my business' goes really strong. Many of the students would react with ignoring the situation, pretending that we didn't see the mother slapping the child, or feeling uneasy for the child but wouldn't say anything. I am, therefore, wondering if this is a realistic reflection of how children are treated in the two countries. Is it true that we, as students, agree that the mother should have the ultimate right to decide what to do with her children?

Different Types of Punishment
Posted by Alicia on March 1, 2004
I noticed one really big difference between the French and the American reactions on this situation was the difference in reactions to the slap as a form of punishment. Most of the Americans thought that a mother slapping a child was a bad thing, they felt bad for the child and one person even thought that the mother was a bad parent for doing it. On the other hand, many of the French responses were that the child must have deserved the punishment and that mother had good reason to slap her child. I think this shows a fundamental difference in the way that the French and the Americans punish their children. In America, physical punishment of a child is frowned upon and not used very often. Most of the time, when I child does something wrong, their parents will "ground" them (meaning that they will take away certain privileges like watching TV, the telephone, or the computer). This is a non-violent alternative to physical punishment of the child. Personally, I come from a Chinese family where spanking a child or hitting him/her is considered a valid and necessary form of punishing a child. I was wondering, is this the case in France as well? How acceptable is it to punish a child by physical means? Do the French also have a system that is similar to the American "grounding" system?

Could it really happen?
Posted by Felipe on March 1, 2004
I'm not American but my feeling is that here very few mothers would slap their child in public since they know that a lot of people would look at her disapproving and some would even make comments. People in general are quite sensitive to any form of domestic violence. Then my question is, could this kind of situation actually happen in a public spot in France?

La gifle qui laisse des traces
Posted by Ombeline on March 2, 2004
Pour répondre à Susanna je pense que c'est aux parents de choisir l'éducation qu'il donne à leurs enfants. Si la maman a donner une gifle a son enfant c'est quel avait de bonne raison. Aujourd'hui en France il est vrai qu'il est mal vu de donner des gifles aux enfants. Sauf que certain des enfants mériteraient des gifles car ils sont très insolent, capricieux et les enfants gâter ne son pas bien préparer pour l’avenir je trouve. Et je pense que tout céder a un enfant n'est pas la meilleur façon de l'élever. Mais je voudrais savoir comment c'est perçue chez vous de donner des gifles a ses ou son enfants?

Gifle nécessaire pour l'education
Posted by Ombeline on March 2, 2004
Alicia je suis tout à fait d'accord avec toi sur le fait qu'une gifle est nécessaire pour l'éducation d'un enfant. Mais j'ai pue remarquer que 3 personnes dans ma classe non jamais reçue une gifle de leur parents. Ceux qui ont reçue une ou des gifles remercie leurs parents car cela leur donner une leçon et forger leur caractère.
Mais tout dépend pourquoi et a quel occasion et donner la gifle, car trop en donner ne sert a rien et n'a plus aucun effet pour l'enfants.

gifle gifle petite gifle...
Posted by Belliard on March 2, 2004
Merci ombeline oui c'est vrai je suis d'accord avec toi, moi aussi j'ai reçu des gifles quand j'été petite et je le vie trés bien je pense que c'est pas obligatoire mais quelque fois nécessaire pour la bonne éducation d'un enfant.
Quelque il y a des enfants vraiment capricieux et une bonne gifle ou fessé leurs fait du bien.
Mais je pense que les personnes qui protestent dans la rue quand une maman donne une gifle a son enfant n'on rien a dire car cela ne les regarde pas c'est déjà dure de faire l'éducation d'un enfant donc c'est encore plus dure si d'autre s'en mele.

Les reactions des gens
Posted by Ombeline on March 2, 2004
Il est vrai que de temps en temps les gens dans la rue ou dans le métro font des commentaires (soit a la mère soit a son voisin ou amis) sur le fait de donner une gifle a son enfants. La maman dans ces cas là peux être gêner mais la plus part du temps elle fait pas attention au commentaire des autres. Mais à l’inverse il arrive que les gens fassent le commentaire inverse car il estime qu'un enfant devrait recevoir une gifle.

slapping in public
Posted by Nicholas on March 2, 2004
Let's assume that physical punishment of children is more accepted in France, which by the nature of your responses, seems to be the case. So in America, one rarely sees this situation occur. It happens, but not so often. That being said, when a mother slaps her child in public, I often wonder how she treats her child in private. She must be aware that everyone sees her doing it, so I cannot help but think that she is one who may use physical punishment a little too often, to the point where she has lost interest in whether people may look upon her as an overly abusive parent. This is what I believe is the case in the United States, at least. While plenty of parents may hit their kids in private, usually the ones who hit their kids too often are the same ones who do it in public. I know that I didn't explain that very well. Sorry.

communication
Posted by Howard on March 3, 2004
I don't believe that kids should be physically punished, but sometimes I don't think there are any other options outside of letting them do whatever they want. I think that the problem lies in the fact that parents sometimes have trouble communicating with their kids and resort to physical punishment, because they believe that it's the only way to get their kid to "behave". In my opinion, a logical scolding is much more effective. However, the problem is how do you logically reason with a kid (age<10) and whether he would understand enough or your reasoning so that he would not repeat the fault again? I think most people, independent of age, learn from experience, and sometime there just needs to be some form negative feedback to correct misdoings. What do other people think?

Slaps
Posted by Kezia on March 4, 2004
I totally believe that hitting kids are an effective form of punishment. (Note: I mean one or two slaps, not physical abuse). I think when kids are young they will quicker refrain from doing something because they don't want to get slapped, than they would because their parent talks to them about. As Howard pointed, kids under 10, especially those under 5, do not relate to logical reason very well.

Laws
Posted by Kezia on March 4, 2004
It's the same way our laws work. It would be great if always obeyed the laws because we want what's best for society. But, many times the fear of getting caught and being punished is what keeps us breaking the law. Slaps for children are the same as jail for adults, while not everyone needs them, they are effective deterrents which prevent us from doing wrong.

Child Abuse
Posted by Katherine on March 4, 2004
From many of the previous responses to this topic, it seems that most viewers in France would just shrug and think there must be a good reason why the mother is slapping her child. In the US, it seems that many people would be upset and somehow or other try to stop the mother. I credit this phenomenon to the strict child abuse laws in the US. Since the French reaction is different than the American reaction, I was wondering if this reflects the child abuse laws in France. Is there a correlation between a show of punishment with a physical reaction and child abuse laws? Or is it simply that there is less of a stigma in France to correct your child's behavior in a semi-violent way and, thus, mothers wouldn't fear humiliation as much? And, although this is a bit off topic, how much power do children, adolescents and teenagers have in France?

Moral Opposition to Hitting
Posted by Phil on March 5, 2004
I'm not so sure about the statement that the taboo on hitting children is an effect of the strict child abuse laws in the US. I would have thought that it would have been the opposite, that the laws came about because people wanted to move away from physical punishment. I think there is a moral argument against slapping or spanking and that the laws only serve to put this system into official terms. I don't think that somewhere where slapping was acceptable would implement such laws to prevent it. All of this considered, I wonder what caused hitting a child to become so socially unacceptable. I understand that violence should not be encouraged, but if spanking is effective and helps a child to learn right from wrong, why is American society so opposed to it?

Public vs. Private
Posted by Meg on March 5, 2004
I agree with Nicholas, in that I think part of the reason why the American response was so different from the French one is that this scene happened in so public a place. My parents had all the usual non-physical means of punishment, like time-outs or restrictions on watching TV or going to a friend's house. But if I did something really bad, I got a spanking, and I don't think I'm any worse off for being brought up that way. But if something like that had ever happened in a public place, I feel the consequences would be more far-reaching. I would think it strange to see a mother slap her child in the supermarket, because it would seem out of place. I also think the word 'slap' has a really different connotation to it than we'd usually use to describe physical discipline of children. Slapping is more associated with domestic violence and comes across as more personal and more hostile than something like spanking does.

HItting in Private
Posted by Yong-yi on March 5, 2004
I'm not so sure that nowadays hitting is still so allowed. I grew up in China were spanking was much more commonplace than in the States and I never got anything close to it. I think that perhaps there is a fear in the States of child abuse. Or perhaps I was simply raised differently from others.

Well...
Posted by Katherine on March 7, 2004
I'm not exactly certain if I have my facts straight, but from what I remember from a US history course in eleventh grade... Apparently, a few decades ago, parents had a lot of power over their children. If a child was stubborn, if the parents didn't like it, they had the option of sending their children to something like boot camp. Not quite boot camp, but something usually not sanitary, not clean, very strict, very harsh, etc. If the 'officers' find you doing something they don't like, they beat you, they starve you, etc. After a while, various groups began calling for reform and the law became more...fair to minors. At least, this is what my 11th grade US history professor instilled in me. Now a mother slapping her child in public seems very odd to me. I agree with Meg that, should a mother slap her child in private, I'd probably find it more normal. I speculate that, should a mother slap her child in public, she must be able to overcome public humiliation that comes with such an act. Or, based on the reactions on the French side, such an act in France may not be viewed so negatively. I think that part of the reason it's such a taboo here in the US comes from the strict Child Abuse laws and possibly from the history in which many children were abused and basically ignored (now this part I got from some special TV program dealing with US history). Thus, I wonder if the French had laws as strict on child abuse. Or perhaps the French did not undergo the same kind of social reform periods as the US? Or perhaps not to the same extent?

some thoughts on hitting kids
Posted by Isaac on March 8, 2004
I think it's completly appropriate to hit your own children as disapline. I know when I acted up, I got spanked, and I stopped acting up. I wish I filled out this questionaire in time, because I'm completely with the French. Check out this link on the subject:

http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html

Le pourquoi de la gifle
Posted by Ombeline on March 9, 2004
La gifle est ressentie différemment si elle est reçue en public ou en privée. Mais tout dépend du public, public connu (amis, famille) ou inconnu (dans un supermarché). La gifle donnée en public est plus humiliante pour l'enfant qu’en privée. Pour moi c'est la même chose, ça ne ma pas traumatisée d'avoir des gifles en public. Si j'en ai reçue c'est que je le méritais, et je crois que j'étais pas très sage et que je faisais un certains nombres de bêtises. Donc c'est pour cela que je comprends mes parents. En même temps je n'ai jamais reçue de gifle devant mes amis. Là je pense que sa m'aurai beaucoup touchée. Mais je crois que de temps en temps le verbal peu faire plus mal que le physique. Donc je ne sais pas vraiment lequel et le mieux. Il est vrai que chez vous cela est très mal vu de donner une gifle en public. Mais en même temps je trouve ça très hypocrite de donner des gifles en privé. Pour moi un gifle sert de correction, et pour que l'enfant comprenne qu'il a fait une bêtise il faut le punir tout de suite et pas attendre. Mais il ne faut pas utiliser la gifle il est toujours bon aussi d'interdire les sorties, la TV, l'ordinateur. Mais la punition dépendra forcement de la bêtise commise.
Mais avant tout il faut expliquer pourquoi ce que l’enfant fait est mal, car si non cela ne sert à rien. De plus les parents, après avoir discuter avec leur enfants, ne doivent plus leur en vouloir.