Les réponses des étudiants américains sont très différentes de celles faites par les étudiants français. Pour nous, c'est assez impoli de tutoyer quelqu'un qu'on ne connaît pas. C'est la même chose d'appeler quelqu'un par son prénom, surtout quand on est jeune. C'est généralement aux petits enfants que l'on parle comme ça...

Generally, students from MIT responded that they would not care much about it and nobody from MIT would try to correct the employee's behavior.

On the contrary, several students from Ecole Polytechnique responded that they would feel uncomfortable about it and would let the employee know that he has made a mistake indirectly by facial expression or accent or tell him directly that he has made a mistake. From this fact alone, it seems that addressing a stranger by first name is considered much more rude in France. However, there were also a few students from Ecole Polytechnique who responded that they would not care much about it and it seems that although in general, the behavior of the employee would be considered more rude in France, there are different attidudes toward addressing a person with her first name. What do you think about this?

It actually feels strange if someone calls me Ms. xx rather than by my first name. It makes me feel old. I think that Americans greet each other informally. It's usually on a first name basis. It's not a big deal at all if someone calls me by my first name. In fact, it will be weird if they didn't. When you (French) meet someone new, do you always call them by their last name?

I too prefer being called by my first name. I like my name. Although I must say that when someone refers to me as Ms.Baptista it sounds very elegant and gentleman like. When it comes to me addressing others, I'm bad with names. I usually don't refer to people by their name, I just say "hi". Do you consider it impolite to not address you by your name at all?

Using someone's first name in the United States seems to be something people do to be friendly and create an atmosphere of openness. Also, in the US, most employees who wear nametags only have their first name shown, so we have no choice but to address them by their first name if necessary.Would it be acceptable in France to address employees by their first name?

I think you guys are right that Americans in general are less formal. The biggest indicator oculd actually be in our language. While in French, there are the verbs "tutoyer" and "vouvoyer" to discuss the formality (and politeness?) that one uses in a given situation, these verbs don't really exist in English. This might show that not just Americans, but English-speaking people in general, place much less emphasis on the formality of a professional conversation. Do you think that our language keeps our society less formal? If there were more disctictions between formal and informal pronouns ("tu" and "vous" in French), would Americans still be informal in most of our daily interactions?

Another issue that is interesting to address in this situation are the various reactions of the French students. The majority of French people would have a problem being called by their first name, but not so many of them would directly tell the bank employee that this is a problem. I found it interesting to look at the ways that people go about letting the employee know that they would prefer to be adressed formally. For example, some of you would drop hints like always emphasizing the word "monsieur". In English we have a term called "passive-agressive", which means that while one does not say directly what he means, but rather uses subtleties of language combined with often harsh words, never outright saying what he feels. I'm sure there is a phrase for this in French as well, and it struck me how some of you used this passive-aggressive attitude to deal with the rude employee. Do you think that most French people would prefer to be indirect and passive-aggressive in this situation? Or would more people say something directly, like "on n'a pas garde les cochons ensemble" or "vour pouvez aussi m'appeller Monsieur..."?

I think the gender assumptions that the responses reveal are interesting. While a few students on both sides commented that the sex of the employee made a difference, it seems like most MIT students assumed it would be a women, whil the use of "le" and "il" by the French students suggests that they assumed the employee was male. Is it true that working at a bank in France is a historically male profession, or is the use of the male pronoun an artifact of the French language?

Peut etre nous trompons nous de question ici. En effet le fait d'appeler quelqu'un par son prenom ou de l'appeler Monsieur depend seulement de la culture et de l'education. En France, par tradition, il est plus poli d'appeler quelqu'un que l'on ne connait pas "Monsieur". Au Mexique par exemple ce n'est pas le cas. A priori aux USA non plus. Alors il suffit de s'adapter aux usages locaux : je suis surpris quand un inconnu en France m'appele par mon prenom, mais je trouve cela normal de la part d'un mexicain par exemple, et peut etre d'un americain (je ne suis alle aux USA que tres jeune). Par ailleurs en France au moins la societe est assez differenciee, et selon le milieu socio culturel le tutoiement est plus ou moins bienvenu. Il faut donc egalement prendre en compte l'environnement social.

A l'attention de Stephanie.

Concernant le fait d'appeler des employes par leur prenom, il s'agit en France d'un point tres subjectif. Cela depend du travail, de l'environnement social, de l'habitude de l'entreprise. Mais il est visible que certains employes le preferent, d'autre non. Le plus souvent omn utilise le prenom, et le tutoiement vient plus tard.

Qu'en est il aus USA ?

Merci

Pour répondre a maggie, je pense que beaucoup de français préfère utiliser "passive-aggresive" dans des situations similaires car il s'agit de faire preuve d'une certaine subtilité. En effet, lorsque que l'on veut faire comprendre a l'autre sa maladresse, on évite de le crier tout haut pour l'humilier mais on lui fait remarquer discrètement pour qu'il puisse corriger le tire sans qu'il se sente trop gêne car en générale ce genre de situation est considérée comme plutôt embarrassante pour les français.

Pour repndre a Gwedolyn, je pense que les francais utilisent le terme "il" pour definir un employee en generale. Les personnes travaillant au guichet d'une banque ne sont pas plus des hommes que des femmes?

Si vous etiez plus ages, est-ce-que cela changerait vos reponses?

Tout d'abord pour repondre a Gwendolyn, il n'est pas exact que les employes de banque doivent etre des hommes. C'etait peut-etre le cas il y a quelques dizaines d'annees, mais je peux t'assurer qu'aujourd'hui, beaucoup de femmes travaillent dans les banques, peut-etre meme une majorite ! En revanche, les patrons des grandes banques sont en general des hommes...

Ensuite, je crois que Maggie a entierement raison. Nous autres Francais n'avons pas le meme rapport avec la politesse que les Americains. On se demande toujours si on doit "tutoyer" ou "vouvoyer" quelqu'un. C'est tres important. Generalement om ne tutoie que les gens que l'on connait bien, ses amis, sa famille. Et encore, il existe des jeunes qui vouvoient leurs parents ! Mais en fait, cela ne change rien a la convivialite des rapports qui peuvent exister. Un autre exemple : je fais du parachutisme et nous sommes encadres par des militaires de l'Ecole, dont un Commandant (c'est son grade dans l'armee). Quand je saute avec lui, je l'appelle par son prenom et je le tutoie, et quand je le vois a l'Ecole, je le vouvoie et je l'appelle "mon Commandant".

Autre chose : les employes de certains magasins en France ont parfois aussi des etiquettes avec leur prenom ecrit dessus. Jamais il ne me viendrait a l'idee d'appeler un de ces employes par son prenom. Je lui dis simplement "Vous..."

Je pense que c'est assez important pour vous de savoir cela, si un jour vous venez en France, car si vous tutoyez les gens, ils peuvent prendre cela pour un manque de respect. Est-ce que vos professeurs par exemple vous appellent par vos prenoms ? Et vous, comment vous adressez-vous a eux ?

In response to Charles, I think you have a point. If we were older, than this would be a different question for us and elicit completely different responses. My mother is 49, and young and care-free as she is, she would be shocked if the person at the bank called her Linda, especially if they were younger than her. That being said, she would probably smile and go on with her business, not find some way to make the person realize their mistake. I'm trying to think of what my grandmother would do. I think she would have the same reaction as my mom. She would not correct the person, but she would be shocked. Certainly, she would not say "Are you well?" as one of the French responses suggested. So, I think that it does make a little bit of a difference. If you asked this same question to an older audience, you would get more negative responses than we gave. However, the negative responses would be passive-negative instead of active-negative. I don't really know when this change is...maybe once you get out of university and start leading the life of an adult?

To respond to Louis' question about how we interact with our professors, for me it is very informal and amicable. My professors certainly address me by my first name. In some cases when I know the professor very well, he will actually call me by a nickname, like "Mags", because that's what my friends often call me. In most cases I also refer to my professor by his/her first name (Joel, Larry, Les, Jan, etc). I'm not sure that all students do this, and I have some professors who want to be addressed more formally with their last name (Professor Glicksman). I think this partially depends on the age of the professor, but it also has something to do with class size. When students at MIT become upperclassmen, the size of each course becomes smaller. This means that each student gets to know the professor much better, and this usually leads to a friendly relationship. In my case, I am an Architecture major, so my coursework is based a lot on discussions with my professor aobut my projects. These are often individual discussions, so each student communicates a lot with the professor. In other specializations, though, this kind of contact might not exist. Is it always the case that you call your professors by their last name? Is there ever any situation in which you would call them by their first name? For example, if you do research on a regular basis with one professor, and you get to know them well, would you then call them by their first name?

I have found that formality is linked to geographic region. I am from a town in New Jersey near New York city, so I grew up in a more formal, professional atmosphere. One summer I had an internship at an engine company in the Midwest and I was quite shocked at how informal everyone acted. My supervisor, his boss, and the CEO of the company all wanted to be called by their first names. The same was true for anyone I met in town. If I used a Mr./Mrs./Miss I was always told to call people by their first name, regardless of how old they were. Are their any regions in France that are known for using less formal language than others?

I had similar an experience. When I was interning this summer, my boss definitely preferred to be called by his first name. In fact, everyone at the company went by first names, even when they're very high up. How do people address their boss(es) in France? Are you on a first name basis?

I was born in a Spanish speaking country, so when I learned English I was wondering why there was only the informal "you" for everyone, instead of a more formal way to adress professors, etc. I guess this might have something to do with the fact that the students at Polytechnique find it inappropriate that a bank employer adress them by first name. At least here at MIT< the employees at the bank make an effort to read off your name and try to start a friendly conversation. Would friendly conversations also be innapropriate to have with someone you expect to adress you by your last name?

To respond to Louis' question regarding addressing professors, I found that it was always best to address them formally when I was an undergrad. However, when I graduated and started a Ph.D. program, they then requested me to call them by their first name. So although I was only one year older then before, the change in my professional status prompted a change in our relationships.

Une information sur ce problème, Nicolas Sarkozy demande tous les gendarmeries et policiers à vouvoyer les habitants des quartiers. Une fois j'ai tutoyé une professeur jeune, un amis français m'a tapé pour m'avertir, mais la prof n'avait rien dit et n'éprouvait aucune émotion. Donc tout dépend de personne à qui tu t'adresses. Pour les gens qui servent à la cantine, je les tutoye toujours. Cela peut approcher la relation s'ils sont plustôt moins serieux.

Excusez moi de déborder un peu sur le sujet de la discussion.

Mais j'ai une question qui s'adresse à tout le monde (français et américains) concernant le travail de la femme. En France, il y a une grande différence entre les salaires des hommes et des femmes. J'ai une amie qui travaille au sein d’une grande entreprise française (Eiffage) et qui a vu sur la grille des salaires qu'il y a une différence de 1000 euros (~ 50%) entre hommes et femmes appartenant à la même grille( même diplôme, même expérience)...A quoi est du cette énorme différence?existe-elle aux USA?Les hommes et les femmes sont-ils imposable de la même manière?....Je peux vous confirmer qu'au Maroc où on prétend maltraiter les femmes qu'il n y a pas de discrimination sexiste au niveau des salaires ni dans le public ni dans le privée. Je ne fais pas cette dernière remarque pour interpeller mes amis français mais juste pour manifester mon étonnement vis-à-vis de cette inégalité sociale que j’ai du mal à comprendre. Veuillez me pardonner encore une fois cette intervention « hors sujet »

In response to Tarek's question, yes, there still is generally a discrepancy in the salaries of men and women doing the same jobs with the same qualifications. However, I don't think the difference is nearly as high as 50%. I could be wrong, but I think that the percent difference is significantly lower here in the U.S.

The current gender/wage gap in the US is around 80%. This is a subject that I find personally very interesting, so I have done a lot of reading on it. Current thought on the wage gap centers on a lot of reasons- some sexist and some not. One explanation is that women are less likely to take jobs involving high personal risk or discomfort (like relocating to a less cosmopolitan area), which translates into less pay. Another theory is that women are less likely to negotiate their salaries and therefore start at lower pay than men. This means that even if raises are given equally to men and women, the woman will consistently make less. Neither of these explanations is blatantly sexist. However, I think they imply a bit of sexism with regard to how each gender is "supposed to" behave. Men are taught to just go after what they want, while women are more likely to question whether they really need/deserve something, ie. The man asks for a higher salary because he thinks he can get it, while the woman decides the given salary is enough to get by on and just accepts it. Issues like this need to be addressed if the wage gap is totally going to close.