Observation: America is mentioned several times on both sides. On the American side, the number of responses which view individualism as a beneficial idea is much greater than the number of negative responses to individualism. However, on the French side, it's the other way around.

Question: I found that the word "egoism" appears 12 times on the French side. In France, does "egoism" have a negative meaning? Also, the word "egoism" is not used frequently in ordinary conversations in America. What about in France? Is "egoism" often used in everyday situations?

Kyungmin's question is my question too. Does égoïsme mean egocentrism? Does it have a bad connotation? Why do almost all French students associate it with individualism?

American students describe individualism through positive words.

In both the list for "Individualism" and the list for "Freedom" the US appears. Yet, in the list for "Individualism" it is clearly in a negative context (as is seen by considering the other associated words like "mauvais," "rancoeur" and "égoïsme") while in the list for "Freedom" it is clearly in a positive context (residing alongside "égalité, fraternité" etc.). What'd I'd like to more fully understand is the dynamic between these two views of the US, particularly the fact that in some sense one cannot obtain freedom without individualism: as one's own rights are strengthened they, in turn, infringe on the rights of others. Specifically, the ideas associated with the US related to freedom must be distinct from the ideas related to individualism, and this distinction will, perhaps, illuminate the specific balance of lack of freedom and individualism to which each culture is accustomed. Therefore knowing these specific ideas might be instructive.

Like the other MIT students, I observed that individualism has a negative connation for the student at l'Ecole Polytechnique. For the MIT students, individualism is generally a good quality because it implies that people are not just following the crowd or trying to blend in to the background, but expressing themselves as unique and making their opinions known. In French, it seems that individualism has the connotation of "selfish" and considering oneself more important than the general population. Is there another word in French that means expressing oneself as an individual that more closely correlates to our concept of individualism?

En reponse a kim kyungmin, il ne faut pas s'arreter au sens brut des mots, mais aussi s'interesser a leur valeur. Ainsi, la traduction la plus fidele du mot francais egoisme serait 'selfish' plutot que 'egoism'. egoism se rapproche plus de egocentrique, alors qu'un egoiste agit dans le seul but de son interet personnel, aux depends des autres. Il se rapproche alors de la vision francaise de l'individualiste, qui privilegie sa reussite proffessionelle aux depend de sa vie familiale et sentimentale.

Toutefois, le mot individualisme n'est pas exclusivement pejoratif, et contient l'idee d'oeuvrer pour son epanouissement , de sortir des sentiers batus. Est-ce que le mot ambition ou epanouissment personnel ne seait alors pas plus approprie pour traduire en francais le mot anglais 'individualisme' ?

En reponse au poste de Kyungmin Kim, je dirai qu'effectivement l'individualisme en France est profondement connote. La tradition sociale du pays implique que meme si la reussite personnelle est importante, elle ne doit pas se faire aux depends d'autres personnes. C'est pour cette raison que nous sommes tres attaches au syteme des classes preparatoires et des grandes ecoles car elles permettent de ne classer les gens que sur le merite.

D'ailleurs, si etre individualiste n'est pas un compliment, dire a quelqu'un qu'il est egoiste est un reproche, une sanction.

Pourtant egoisme et egocentrisme sont deux choses differentes. Une personne egoiste ne pense qu'a elle, a son bonheur personnel, en ne tenant aucunement compte des autres. Une personne egocentrique, quant a elle, ramene tout a sa personne : les discussions, les caprices...

I think the notion of individualism is at the core of the difference between the american and european way of thinking. Since I come from a european country but I have lived in the United States for five years, I'm not really sure where my opinion fits. Anyway, I think individualism is the concept that the best way to succeed is for everyone to do the best thing for themselves. As described very vividly in the books of Ayn Rand (Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged), one's primary goal in life should be to achieve the best possible level of personal success, disregarding what others call social goodness. This way, the most competent and smartest people are the ones who enjoy the better things in life, which according to the theory of individualism is only fair. On the other hand, a more "european" way of thinking, which i'll dare say comes from ancient Greece, is that the most important thing is the prosperity of society as a whole. An individualist was called an idiot in ancient Greece, so it's clear what the greek and later european attitude against individualism is. A simple example that illustrates the above difference is our response to unemployment or homelessness. One point of view says that it is the unemployed person's fault that he doesn't have a job and hence practically refuse any kind of social welfare. This is basically the case in the United States. Another point of view, is that every individual is the responsibility of the organized society and hence there should be a system of social help towards people who are more unfortunate (and not less competent). This is basically the case in France, where the unemployment benefits are much higher than in most countries.

I agree with Iordanis that we have a little bit different views of individualism; however, I think that individualism for americans is more of being able to succeed for themselves and not have to worry so much about others. Maybe it is our way of saying we don't want to be utilitarian but at the same time we still don't want people to rot in the streets. Individualism means that you don't have to think about the group first but at the same time it doesn't mean that you have to ignore everyone else.

Pour Stephanie,

A ta signification d'individualisme, j'associerai plutôt celui de personnalité. Quelqu'un qui assume sa personnalité, assume aussi ses opinions et n'hésite pas à les exprimer. Mais, là encore, cette qualité peut devenir un défaut si elle est poussée à l'extrême. C'est à dire que même si on est maître de ses opinions, il faut savoir aussi rester dans certaines conventions pour ne pas être écarté de la société. Car de nos jours, quelqu'un qui n'a plus d'existence sociale, n'existe plus vraiment... Je me demande donc si quelqu'un qui est trop individualiste dans votre sens, transforme ainsi cette qualité en défaut, ou si au contraire, plus on l'est mieux c'est ?