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Xavier F (France) - 04:10am Oct 12, 1998 (1.)
If French and American students agree that Paris is the symbol
of France, their points of view are a little bit different concerning
some other things. French students know the quality of their gastronomy,
so do the Americans but the americans seem to know only the Baguette,
wine (without any name), and cheese.An other symbol is the Eiffel
Tower and whay is surprising is that none of the french students
has noticed it. We agree about the cultural dimension of France
but what surprises me is the fact that the word Europe is so absent
in the answers (in both sides)
Hi Americans ! I am French and I am glad you see France like
a beautiful country where are good wine, chateaux, cheese, the
Tour eiffel...I LOVE MY COUNTRY.I am in Paris for studies, during
3 years. I know i am lucky because i can visit Paris with its
museums, cabarets,cinemas, whenever i want. But i live in Marseille,
in the South of France. I love my city too.Paris does not make
France. you can see other more beautiful places that are not very
known from USA. France for me is THE country i would always live
in. The culture enjoys me and the landscape too.But I would like
too, to come and work in USA this summer, because I feel good
when i go to your country. See you, Katia
About the word France, french and american students agree.
The main symbols of france are Paris and food and wine .They thing
that France is a country of culture too:Louvre... France is a
part of Europe .I thing it is new . One difference :french students
thing about the human rights because i thing they are proud of
it.
I'm kinda curious about the repeated mention that France is
known for its culture. Does anyone find this shallow in any way?
Was the blood spilled on the French soil during the wars that
took place there spent for the sake of food? I can't belive that
the culture that some say isn't even known by most of the people
there can be the entire symbol of the country. I'm sure part of
my sentiments are my being raised in America. We hold freedom
to be near and dear to our hearts and I find it curious that it
really isn't prominent in the word associations from the french
side.
On retrouve des deux côtés des mots qui reviennent de nombreuses fois: paris, Europe, culture et des mots du champ lexical de beauté.
On pouvait s'attendre à ce que les Americains sortent les fameux stéréotypes comme la baguette et le vin rouge. En effet, ils l'ont fait mais le plus surprenant est que les français aussi! Paris n'est pas la France (les provinciaux y tiennent) mais ce nom revient 7 fois du côté français (10 fois sinon). Les Américains mettent en avant tout ce qui fait l'image de marque du pays: l'art de vivre (les vins, la gastronomie, les parfums), la culture (les châteaux, l'histoire, Paris) et d'une manière générale le côté unique et captivant du pays.
(suite)
Peux-tu expliquer ce que tu entends par "provinciaux"
? Je ne suis pas sûr du tout que les Américains connaissent
ce mot, qui pour moi n'a pas lieu d'être puisqu'il se voudrait
de couper la France en deux régions. Il n'y a pas deux
régions en France. Qu'est-ce qu'un provincial sinon un
français ?
(suite)
Les Français ont bien sûr parlé de ces
aspects flatteurs. Mais ils mettent en avant le côté
"France, pays des Droits de l'Homme" et de "liberté,
égalité, fraternité", totalement absent
de la vision américaine.
Bonjour
Les Français présentent leur pays avec fierté comme le pays des droits de l'homme, de la démocratie ... Dans le même temps les Américains voient la France plutot du point de vue de ce quelle produit : vin, fromage, tourisme ...
D'une façon unanime la France semble être un pays de culture et d'histoire. Mais la vision américaine démontre combien la france n'est que superficiellement connue par les Américains. Mais il en est sans aucun doute de même pour la vision que les Français ont de l'Amérique : tout n'est que stéréotype.
Une petite qustion maintenant : Que pensez de l'image de nos
deux pays offerte par les récentes (en France du moins)
super productions cinématographiqes telles que Armageddon
et Godzilla ? Est-elle juste ?
Well concerning your question about the recent american movies
like Armageddon and Godzilla, I definetely don't think it is fair
the way French people were portrayed. It was obviously stereotypical
and superficial, but that is also reflected in the words chosen
by Americans to describe France. The portrayals were definetely
funny, but not because French people or the way they behave is
funny, but because they were depicted in such a crude and exagerated
way to what we sometimes think French people are like.
Bonjour à tous Ce que j'ai trouvé intéressant
c'est que les Américains (mais aussi les Français)
ont une vision de la France réduite à la capitale
Paris, c'est-à-dire celle d'un pays où les valeurs
sont la gastronomie et la mode. Avez-vous déjà vu
des images ou lu des textes sur les autres régions françaises
(en province, les Alpes par exemple )? La vision qu'ont les Américains
sur la France me semble très superficielle. Faîte
uniquement de plaisirs charnels... Que pensez-vous du rôle
international de la France,notamment en Afrique? Ou de son importance
sur le plan scientifique? Une grande question que j'aimerais aborder
est celle de l'Europe. Comment les Américains perçoivent-ils
cette nouvelle union? A bientôt
Paris seems to be the symbol of France all over the world,
for it is quoted many times on both sides, without considering
that which is linked to this town (Le Louvre, La tour Eiffel ...
) One curious thing is that France seems to be reduced to Paris
: it is spoken of art, romance, funny... French people are definitely
proud of their country and focus on gastronomy, traditions and
history. It's funny to notice that Americans speak about food,
and not about gastronomy (Stereotypes are back : wine, cheese,
bread ...which are only part of gastronomy and therefore reductionists
terms ) But french people are not less reductionists; from the
inside, it's difficult to speak about the image of the whole country,
so french people give vague terms and don't give an image of what
France is for them but an image of what they think France is,
from the outside. The same categories are activated, but on a
different scale : outside from the outside for Americans, outside
from the inside for French people
Louvre, culture, art, funny... Thank you! Pour une fois la
France n'est pas réduite à une assiete, une baguette
et à Paris. C'est déjà pas mal! World cup?
Vous étiez donc au courant? Vous savez qu'on a gagné?
nice! enfin quelque chose ou vous n'êtes pas les plus forts...
That's a joke... France is culture, but French people are not
culture (The majority don't know much). The Culture comes from
our History, and not from us.
Bonjours à tous. La vision de la France en tant que pays de l'art et de la culture semble partagée par tous. Le cliché du Français avec une bagette de pain sous le bras, du fromage et une bouteille de vin semble être bien enraciné...mais où sont les cuisses de grenouilles? On remarque par certains détails normalement inconnus outre-atlantique (Gainsbourg,Gitanes,crêpes) que plusieurs d'entre- vous ont déjà été en France, alors que d'autres ne semblent pas connaître grand chose de la France. Je trouve que les Français autant que les Américains ne pense pas à notre valeur scientifique.(et notre prix Nobel de physique alors?)
A bientôt.
La France ne se réduit pas à Paris et la tour
Eiffel!!!Certes Paris est magnifique (et je suis heureuse d' avoir
trois ans devant moi pour la connaître encore mieux et en
profiter au maximum), mais il y a des régions enchanteresses
en France que vous soupçonnez à peine ( eh oui,
je suis sûre que vous l' avez compris: je viens d' une ville
de France à découvrir absolument car le cadre y
est magnifique; c' est Annnecy!).Bref, il y a plein de petits
paradis en France !!! On vous attend!
(in response to message #12) I think people are aware that
there are so many beautiful places in France besides Paris. However,
for a word association exercise, people put the first thing that
pops in their head. Since Paris and the Eiffel Tower are so well-known,
many automatically think of those first. I am sure that Americans
do not think that all there is to France are Paris and the Eiffel
tower though.
Hello Claire, my name is Maria. In response to your comment,
it is interesting that most of the associations madde by the french
students dealt with culture and history, most of the americans
used more material and stereotypical concepts. this is probably
due to the fact that even though we are aware of some of the history
of your country, it is not the first thing that comes to mind
since these are not concepts that we are proud of or regard highly
as i'm sure you do. as foreigners, we react to the word "france"
as a tourist or visitor would, rather than a fenchperson.
I think you should interpret the results in a more general way. Many French students have alluded to the fact that we put specific food items, and they have put down gastronomy. I think when you look at such a small scale poll, you have to generalize the words, and group them more freely. I think the only reasonable conclusion to be drawn is that both groups associated the concept of gastronomy (either generally, or spceifically) with France. One simple reason that we did not put down the word gastronomy, is that it is not used much. It's that simple. However, we go to the wine store, and "France" appears on every other bottle, we go the corner bakery, and they sell "Baguette" so it is only natural, that we associate with these specific items.
Dear Xavier: I could sing a song to you for every Merlot or
Cote du Rhone I have tried, but in a general word association,
I will not put them down, I will opt for the general term. Actually,
the best wine I had lately was called Vin de Glaciere, made in
California. :-)
Salut,
I don't think you should be insulted by our associations with France. I agree with Amy Shui. Since this is a word association exercise, the first words which I think anyone outside of France would think of are Paris, Cuisine, and wine. Of course the campagne in France is beautiful...Burgundy, Grenoble, Pyrenees. Also the Countryside in the US is beautiful, but nobody wrote The Grand Canyon or Grand Tetons, etc...
Also, I know several Parisiens who feel that Paris is the center of France and is the most important city. I think if you come from the countryside, Paris is probably less important to you, but even many of the students from Evry wrote Paris also!
A Bientot
Hello,
La France, contrairement a ce que l'on pourrait croire, a relativement la même image des deux côtés de l'Atlantique. Pour nos deux peuples, elle symbolise la culture, la bonne chaire, l'art et bien sûr Paris. Evidemment, La France a pour vous un côté vieillot (et il faut reconnaître que ce n'est pas totalement faux). Les français quant à eux préférent voir leur pays comme le garant de la démocratie et de la liberté. Je me pose toutefois une question. Bien que cela n'apparaisse pas dans les listes, j'ai remarqué que vous nous considériez comme un peuple très libre de moeurs. Est-ce une opinion répandue chez vous? Et si oui, pourriez vous m'expliquer pourquoi?
Bye Damien
I think you are right that Americans tend to see the French
as being people of very liberal morals. I believe this view is
widespread because of the way Europeans in general are portrayed
in our pop culture. For instance, a movie that would be prevented
from being shown to people under 18 would be shown completely
uncensored to all ages in Europe. We gather from things like this
that Europeans are more open and free about their beliefs and
morals, even though it may not necessarily be true that the French
are any more liberal than Americans. Do you think that perhaps
the French view Americans as being more crude and "unrefined"
than Europeans?
Hello to all. How many of you (the French students) have visited America before? And how many of us (American students) have visited France before? Where/how do you(we) get your(our)information on America(France)? Anyone care to answer some of these questions?
By the way, some of you French students write very well in
English, impressive.
4 personnes de notre groupe de 13 ont deja visite les USA au
moins 1 fois. C`est pour cela que l`on peut se forger une opinion
sur leur mode de vie et leur culture. Les USA sont un pays magnifique
que j`aime enormement dans lequel on peut facilement rever, mais
lorsqu`on le visite et que l`on s`attarde un peu sur les gens
et les coutumes, on se rend compte que tout n`est pas aussi simple
que l`on l`imaginait, et l`on est confronte a beaucoup de desillusions
(pauvrete, racisme, violence, innombrables proces...). Est ce
que beaucoup d`Americains visitent la France et combien d`entre
vous y sont deja alle ?
I have been to France a few times, hence my touristic associations. But also, a lot of my impressions are formed by the global media, and by the way French culture enters my daily life (This exercise for instance).
I too wanted to comment on the impressive level of English
language used by you, compared to the meager French I would be
capable of at this point...
Salut Adeline, pour nous francais, les americains semblent
tres hypocrites. D'un cote vous produisez des films et des series
ou la violence et le sexe sont omnipresents. Et d'un autre cote,
vous semblez choques par nos moeurs tres libres. C'est pourquoi
il est difficile pour un francais de comprendre la mentalite americain.
Par exemple en France, la majorite des gens ne sont pas choques
par des scenes tres crues lorsqu'elles sont l'expression d'une
forme d'art. Je voudrais savoir comment tu te situes par rapport
a cette dualite americaine.
Hi,
I went to France last year and I am going again in November. I have only been to Paris, so I can only comment on that city. What I loved the most was walking through the streets of Paris and admiring the architecture, relaxing at a cafe, and watching the traffic. I was born and raised in New York, but IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), Paris is the best city in the world!!
Allen
Hello Allen! Si tu viens à Paris en Novembre, j'espère
que tu n'hésiteras pas à venir nous voir! Ce serait
vraiment super sympa! Fais-nous signe sur le forum de discussions
ou par mail. A bientôt j'espère.
more data points!!! whee!!!
I spent nearly a month in France in 1987 (i think), visiting
my uncle who at the time was assigned to the American Embassy
there. He certainly loved his 4 years there, as did I my short
stay. It was pretty nifty, though- I was there for Bastille Day
on the bicentennial. The sheer amount of parading and fireworks
going on was really impressive- everything from soldiers to light
tanks going down the Champs D'Elysees (spelling? sorry). Plus,
we also went around and saw a lot of the museums and castles nearby.
It was really a nice trip, as I recall. ~Amittai
Amy et Allen, je voulais juste vous dire que vos associtions
de mots sur la France sont tout à fait naturelles et légitimes;
si j'ai dit qu'il y avait plein de petits paradis en France ailleurs
qu'à Paris, c'est simplement parce que j'étais prise
d'un élan de "chauvinisme régional"!!!
Comprenez-moi:je n'étais pas retournée dans ma région
depuis longtemps lors de mon premier message et elle me manquait!!!