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Jean-Vincent M - 03:45am Oct 12, 1998 (1.)
in which subjects do you think US is powerful ?(if you want
you can give examples) what is the nature of this power?
I have noticed that the idea of big size and power is very
more present in the french answers. Something is very funny :
for French people, America makes them think in hamburgers and
Coca-cola. Americans insist more on the heterogenity, the melting-pot.
They see America as an opportunity. French have different point
of views about America : some think there is excentrism, others
puritanism.
I looked at two questionnaires: France and the US. It is surprising
to see that 'United States' is not directly linked to 'home' (the
word only appears twice) whereas 'France' means fatherland to
us. France also means pride to us whereas your words about the
US seem more neutral. I 'd like to know which words you associate
with 'state' (especially the state you come from).
Perhpas it is difficult to think of the entire United States
as "home", because it is so big. We certainly identify
with our states, our cities... Especially since I've left home
to go to college, it has become more important to me, the idea
of my home. I am from California, and when I meet people out here
(in Boston) that are also from California, we identify somewhat
with each other, because we are both so far from our homes. If
the word association had been home, I would have put words like
"redwood trees, apples, berkeley", things that I associate
with my home, but not necessarily with the U.S. as a whole. But
when I leave the U.S., the same thing happens when I encounter
Americans in other countries. We identify with each other, even
if only on the shallowest level. We come from the same place.
hello claire. i just wanted to explain that the MIT population
is highly international, so most of the people who are answering
these questions do not even live in the States permanently. (i'm
from Puerto Rico). Also, in a more general sense, many americans
are immigrants themselves or at least are descendants of immigrants.
Thus, the sense of mother/fatherland does not exist as much amongst
its inhabitants as in an older country like France.
Responding to claire, I have lived in the state of Massachusetts
for all of my life, yet I am not sure if I would refer to it as
home. I would probably refer to the town I live in as home, but
I would definitely not refer to the United States as home unless
I was in some far away country. Words that I would associate with
my state are Boston, New England weather, and "wicked"
(a slang term used by many Massachusetts people). I agree with
you about French people having more pride in their country.
You seem to be really proud of your country, don't you? French
people aren't so proud of France, but it 's quite the same thing.
You see it as Democracy and freedom. Yes... If you want... French
people see it as the biggest hamburger in the world. I prefere
democracy. No? Democracy doesn't belong to one single country
whereas hamburgers belong to you. So we are right...
Vous autres Américains avez l'air très fiers du "melting pot", qui est pour vous un symbole des E-U.
Pour ma part, je ne pense pas que le melting-pot soit à ce point une réussite pour être érigé au niveau de symbole. Les problèmes de racisme que vous connaissez me semblent être une entrave gigantesque à ce meting-pot. D'ailleurs, quand je pense à Etat-Unis, je pense peut-être d'abord à "racisme" qu'à melting-pot. Attention : loin de moi l'idée que vous soyez tous racistes !!! (vivant dans un pays où un parti raciste fait 15% aux élections, j'ai peut-être intérêt à fermer ma gueule...). Mais j'ai l'impression que les problèmes de racisme occupent une place beaucoup plus importante chez vous que chez nous. Par exemple, lorsqu'un Noir va au tribunal, son sort dépend plus de la proportion de blanc et de noir dans le jury que de ce qui ressort vraiment de la justice.
Qu'en pensez-vous ?
Salut à tous. Pour nous, la nourriture a beaucoup d'importance c'est pourquoi nous associons fortement Amérique avec Mc Do et Coca-Cola, je pense. Vous semblez très fier de votre pays, tout comme nous le somme du notre, mais vous le montrer bien plus que nous. Par exemple: votre drapeau, vous le mettez souvent devant votre porte, vous ne trouverez jamais ça en France... Il est un peu étonnant qu'aucun français n'est fait référence à l'aide durant la Deuxième Guerre Mondiale (pourtant récemment: Saving Private Ryan). Je pense qu'il serait intéressant de savoir combien d'entre-nous ont été dans l'autre pays: américains et Français. (pour ma part, j'ai été 3 fois aux US )
A bientôt.
Bonjour à tous. Le questionnaire sur les Etats-Unis
me paraît très intéressant. Pour les français,
on voit un visage très stéréotypés
de l'Amérique. La plupart des propositions renvoie à
des lieux géographiques, au cinéma, à la
démesure ou à de grandes compagnies. Au contraire
les réponses américaines renvoient plutôt
à l'idée de mélange, d'amalgalme de populations
hétéroclites. A la place des compagnies, on retrouve
plutôt les institutions légales, ou les lieux gouvernementaux.
Je serais interessé de connaître votre opinion sur
la façon dont les Etats-Unis sont vus par les français.
Even MIT students eat a lot of hamburgers. But I think Americans are not proud of the fact that they export hamburgers and Coke to the rest of the world, hence you dont see it in their answers. But in Europe, you cannot escape the almighty Mc Do, and it is often seen as an intrusion into the traditional streetscape. Here, every corner has a burger shop.
I also compared the words US and France. An intersting observation
is that all students associated touristic things with the *other*
country, but only the French students associated them with their
*own* country.
It is interesting to see how the French view Americans, because
their associations showed us what kind of stereotypes America
bears. The French think of fast food, New York, and coca-cola
most often when they think of the U.S., while Americans see freedom
and diversity as representations of their country. Also, the word
"home" comes up only once in the American descriptions
of the United States, while culture, tradition, and home show
up very often in the French descriptions of France. This may be
a result of the fact that the United States does happen to be
such a "melting pot"; perhaps Americans identify less
with their country because there are so many people of different
cultural heritages living together under one nation.
The French seem to approach America as an excentric country,
filled with hamburgers and cola and most of the comments from
Americans that I have read seem as if the Americans are insulted.
We should not be insulted, because the Mac Do is what the rest
of the world is most exposed to when it comes to our culture.
While we don't necessarily associate the US with "home"
Americans are very proud of our founding and the wars that were
won for independence. We were taught to have pride in the country
in which we live, but at the same time, we were also taught about
the countries our ancestors called "home." We try to
live under the idea that one of the most unifying forces is our
diversity.
What things do you learn about America in your schools? It seems as if most of your word associations are purely based on the commercial exports from this country in various areas and the media hype.
A lot of our American associations about france may be considered
along the same lines, but it's interesting that the french words
were about the same.
En classe, nous nous interessons a l'histoire des Etats-Unis
ou plus precisement son intervention dans la notre. D'autre part,
nous etudions aussi sa geographie. En Anglais, nous aprofondissons
d'autres details souvent a travers des films
I am amused that the French think of hamburgers and coca-cola.
Any American knows that a burger and a coke comes with FRENCH
fries ;) All joking aside, it is something to be proud of that
we are known for our foods. Of course, you could say that they
are not as refined or sophisticated as other countries' foods,
but on the other hand, they are unique, creative, and in my opinion,
they are somewhat more appetizing than raw snails...
Hello,
Cette étude me paraît à la fois intéressante
et surprenante. En effet, comme je l'ai déjà dit
sur le forum France, je pensais que nos visions de votre pays
étaient beaucoup plus divergentes. Ce n'est pas le cas,
les Etats Unis représentent bien sûr le capitalisme
triomphant et la première puissance mondiale. Mais c'est
aussi la Statue de la Liberté et les grands espaces. Quelques
différences existent évidemment . Pour nous français,
les Etats Unis sont aussi le Mc Donalds et le Coca Cola : deux
symboles de l'impéralisme américain (réalité
ou non?). Pour vous américains, votre pays est avant tout
le lieu de la démocratie et des libertés individuelles.
Sur ce dernier point, j'ai remarqué (pour ceux qui ont
aussi travaillé sur le forum France) qui chaque peuple
se veut la garant de ces principes sans jamais le reconnaître
à l'autre. C'est étonnant d'autant plus que c'est
un des principaux points communs de nos pays. Qu'en pensez vous?
I saw that the French students associated the United States with "puritanism" a few times- why? Certainly, several hundred years ago, the majority of the settlers of the US were very religious, but that is hardly the case now- Americans are fairly proud of the separation of church and state.
in response to the whole fatherland/melting pot questions,
I must agree with what Maria wrote. In my particular section of
this class, only half of the students called themselves "american".
Certainly, we all live here now, but our backgrounds are very
diferent. The majority of the people in the US can name at least
the general area *outside* the US where their ancestors came from.
The US is very young, compared with France! The first non-native
settlers arrived just about 500 years ago!
en reponse a Amittai, j'ai associe les Etats-Unis au puritanisme
apres y avoir ete. en effet, avant d'y aller, je croyais que tout
etait tres libere; or, en allant visiter ma famille, je me suis
rendue compte a quel point l'eglise etait presente dans la vie
de tous les jours. Mais cela peut venir de la region ou j'etais,
ca je ne sais pas, je n'ai pas visite tous les Etats-Unis...
Je pense que les Américains sont toujours très puritains, du moins par rapport aux européens. Par exemple, il est inconcevable de voir des femmes seins nus sur les plages des États-Unis alors que c'est une pratique courante en Europe.
Pour ce qui est de la séparation de l'Église
et de l'état, je suis fier qu'il en soit ainsi dans notre
pays. Par contre, je considère que cette séoaration
n'existe pas aux États-Unis. En effet, quelle est la première
chose qu'a fait Clinton après avoir été élu
? Il a prêté serment sur la bible ! Sur quoi doit-on
jurer avant de parler au tribunal ? Sur la bible encore ! Ici,
on jure sur l'honneur. J'avoue que je ne sait pas comment je ferais
si je devais aller au tribunal aux É-U. Un dernier exemple,
encore plus courant : Sur vos billets de banque, c'est écrit
"In god we trust". Quand je suis allé aux É-U,
ça me gênais beaucoup d'utiliser ces billets. Sur
nos billets, c'est marqué "Liberté Égalité
Fraternité" à la place.
Salut! Autant les etudiants americains et francais semblaient
avoir la meme vision de la france , autant pour les Etats-Unis
les avis divergent des deux cotes de l'Atlantique.Les Francais
voient tout d'abord les Etats-Unis comme le symbole du capitalisme(et
venant des francais je ne sais pas si c'est un compliment)d'autant
plus que les utres mots qui reviennent le plus souvent sont Mac
DO,Hamburger et imperialisme...Au contraire les americaims se
voient comme le pays de la democratie ( se que nous francais croyons
etre ). Cependant, les americains revendiquent le leadership en
utilisant des mots tel que powerful, leader.
I can perfectly understand why the US is labelled as puritan. When Europeans come here to work, that is the first culture shock we face. The whole attitute to sex, nudity and interpersonal relationships in general is very puritan. Yes, there has been a very successful separation of church and state, but some of the basic conservative values and those in people's mind have not separated.
Examples: US vs. European versions of films, naked statues on the street. The effective censorship in this area in the every form of media is also the sign of puritanism. I would say that the idiotic, hippocritical alcohol laws here are also a form of puritanism.
You can tell that this makes me frustrated to no end. :-)
Antoine,
I found your statement today to be very shocking! I must say
that I did not agree with a single point which you made. First,
I do not think you can call the US a puritan society based on
the fact that woman do not bathe nude on the beach. In fact there
are many nude beaches in the US, but the are either private beaches
or beaches which are specifcally designated for nude bathers.
Also we have many beaches for gay (homosexual) people as well.
Second, I feel that the degree of separation in France between
Church and State is similar to the US. Just because President
Clinton puts a hand on the bible, does not mean that there is
not separation between Church and State! It just means he is a
Christian. I am sure there are many French government officials
who go to Church on Sunday for Mass. Also, I know that next week,
every university in France is closed. Why??? For Toussaint which
is a Catholic Holiday. So does the fact that public universities
in France are closed during Catholic holidays means there is no
separation between Church and State in France either??? No! Finally,
using the word "se gêner" dans ta dernière
phrase a été absurde. The phrase "In God We
Trust" is completely historical. It does not reflect on the
issue of Church vs. State at all!
Allen Peut-etre Antoine est-il allé un peu loin mais
il est indéniable que les "associations" et les
organisations d'extrémistes catholiques sont de plus en
plus présentes et de plus en plus puissantes.Ici en France
la TV diffuse des reportages sur les grands rassemblements que
ces organisations font,rassemblant parfois plusieurs centaines
de milliers de personnes...Commnt expliquer cet engouement?