Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:45:52 EST From: Speedqueen! Subject: Re: Fill: chill out On Fri, 07 Nov 1997 08:26:34 CST, "Kevin R. Foust" pondered: :) :) You know, I've noticed something since I joined this list just a couple :) of months ago...some of the writers (and I know that most of you here :) are not involved, so I am not accusing everybody by any means) here seem :) to want nothing more than start arguments and get pissed off at the drop :) of a hat. Whats up with that? Are other writer lists the same way? Some interesting responses, but I think there may have been an overall impression that one has to either "put up with it" or "leave." I find myself a bit hesitant to let those options stand as the last words... Thus, let me try a few suggestions... "...some people seem to want nothing more than to start arguments and get pissed off at the drop of a hat." True. (as someone said) This list (and others) are tiny microcosms of humanity, reflecting the foibles and diversity of that condition. So we find that some people have "hair triggers" (often in certain areas, or sometimes in trying to hammer MY POINT into every conversation and exchange). Others feel the need to dominate or control, even to the point of trying to drive out those who disagree in some fashion (or don't wear the same pointy ears, color their hair to the same fashionable shocking pink, or whatever). But, (and it is a big butt, isn't it?) we cannot force them into our mold. Doing so is no better. [incidentally, I'm thinking of doing a monograph about the "when you've only got one square peg to drive home, everything looks like a round hole" syndrome. Unfortunately, I keep hitting my own thumb while writing it, and find it difficult to avoid swearing in response.] So what is left if we find ourselves bothered by fleabites, snapping crabs, and similar fauna of the flames? First, I think, is to model desired behavior. I.e., if you want to see writing on this list--WRITE. if you want to see reasonable discussions of literary technique on this list--start one! SHOW, Don't TELL! (where have I heard that before? huh, sounds vaguely familiar, but isn't it a bit ironic that the phrase itself is a bit of telling, not showing?) Second, I'd suggest going back to behavioral conditioning. Positive rewards for desired behavior -- and ignoring negative behavior, because even giving attention to it may be sufficient reward to keep it going. I.e., if you like what someone is doing on the list, TELL THEM (private email, critiquing, etc.). Third, I suppose, would be delving into the literature on this kind of phenomenon. Dr. Elgin's series on Verbal Self-Defense, various psychology books, perhaps a quick look at Coping with Difficult People by Robert M. Bramson--problems of interpersonal relationships, conflict management, negotiation, persuasion, etc. have a rich literature, some of which provides insights and help in trying to deal with the very real manifestations of such difficulties. And with that, I believe I will stop. Further notes on this can also be found in some of my pieces -- start with http://web.mit.edu/mbarker/www/writers.html and look at the FAQs plus some of the Writer's Techniques pieces. a charter member of the "positive change starts with me" club tink