Date:         Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:57:05 EST
From: The Home for Lost Words <mbarker@MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [WRITERS] FILL:What is the sound of a dog barking?

[intended to be somewhat humorous--which does not connect your
shoulder to your elbow, unless you're feeling punny...]

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:01:12 -0800, Judy Ray <ray@CONTINET.COM>
wondered towards the peeks of morning...

In Japan, of course, dogs say "wan, wan."  Roosters say "kokekoko".
(pronounced co -- like cold -- kay -- like okay -- co -- co)

:) Is my experience determined by the language I use or does my
:) experience determine my language?  [And no fair answering Yes, yes to
:) this last question!]

de-termine?  removing the termine?  Par examplar, leaving off the
final punctuation mark on a sentence

(so the poor reader's glance races wildly across the white void, slams
against the margin and slides down the gulf o f unwritten words to

CRASH! into the lines following, all for the lack of a termine?  What
fun!  let's go back to the top and do it again!)

or perhaps the word is deter-mine?  the fabled mine of negatives,
where dwarves, elves, and even kobolds prize out the refusals, stop
signs, denials, and other contradictions from the raw stones of the
depths, building a collection of deterents that blocks everything!

oh, all right, I'll quit teasing that poor word and answer the
question obliquely...

Do experience and language interact?

Of course!  without language, we can hardly speak of our experiences,
and less remind ourselves of them...at the same time, without
experiences, it seems likely that language is less than meaningful...

Do they limit each other (that "determine")?  In some cases.  They
also enrich each other, as many of "our experiences" are not direct,
but mediated through language--I've never been to Edgar Rice Burroughs
Mars, and probably never will, but I still have a kind of experience
of that wonder.

(oh, heck, let's look up determine and see what the OAD says...)

hum...to find out or calculate precisely?  could language calculate
experience or versa vice?  if the government had a tax on experience,
would there be linguistic change...or just major bills?  or is this a
variant of calculus, with the change being brought arbitrarily close
to zero producing strange and wonderful results?  So perhaps as
language approaches zero, experience blossoms?  and as experience
approaches zero, language becomes incredibly ornate, if not downright
silly?

to settle, to decide...does language settle experience?  sometimes, I
suppose, when experience threatens to float off into the vaguenesses
or even worse, when it grumbles and chokes one, then perhaps language
may settle the uneasy tummies and make the experience a bit easier to
take... or does experience settle language?  ah, this is clearly
something that happens when our language wings into the
abstractednesses, and experience grabs the leg of our escaping
thoughts and drags them down like a lead weight, rubbing their stomach
in the dust of reality...

to be the decisive factor or influence on?  This determine might
almost mean something, as we might consider experience to be a
decisive factor or influence on our language (without experience, what
do our words stand on?).  Although, to be sure, there also may be some
decisive factors or influence from our language on our experience
(especially when that experience involves those others, those
strangers in my world).  For that matter, so much experience is
formulated and understood in language--can you get "behind" the
linguistic molding of your experience to touch the raw buzzing
confusion undivided?

to decide firmly?  not like jello or pudding (I enjoy pudding
sometimes, but it isn't firm, you know?)  but rather firmly, even
perhaps a bit stiffly, to decide and make that decision stick (try a
hot glue gun...those will stick almost anything together.  just take a
language and a experience, get the plastic goop good and hot, and
stick'em together.  it'll leave a little ridge, but they won't come
apart on you then.)

Yep, now that you mention it, my language oft determines the firmness
of my experience, while my experience just makes my language
sag...bag, bubble, and drag along the depths.

There you have it, another fine mess of words gasping and crying out
for release from their experience, locked in this message, forced to
shake hands and play footsy with each other will they or nil they.

Don't blame the words, they're only messengers.

as the rooster cries "kokekoko."

:)

tink