Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:04:33 EDT From: "he who tinks last..." Subject: Re: [WRITERS] FILL: The Observers (was: sub:) On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:13:59 EDT, PPCharmin writes: :) :) In a message dated 4/30/98 8:39:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jreis@gte.net :) writes: :) :) << Anytime anyone acts like an asshole anywhere, they run the risk of :) suffering personal attacks on their character. You've more than :) reached asshold mode...in fact, you've gone over the top of asshole :) mode, right into dickhead territory. I am in no way saying that you :) shouldn't post anymore of your shitty writing to the list... >> First of all, I don't believe this has been posted in public before. It is generally considered poor etiquette to post extracts from private email to the list (this is a general rule applicable on most lists, not just this one). Admittedly, there are occasions where one must violate the principle of good email manners due to other problems (e.g., harassment), but I think it would be better not to indulge in this violation of accepted practice at this point. :) I am saddened when I receive mail such as this from you Writers :) List Members. I think you may want to consider the implications both of separating yourself from the "Writers List Members" and of suggesting that we are all guilty of sending such mail. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be: I am saddened when I receive mail such as this from a fellow Writers List member. This avoids casting aspersions on all the other members and places you solidly "on the list" instead of as an outcast from it. :) I am the first to admit that I am not a good writer. That was the :) main reason I joined this list, to learn the craft. My enthusiasm has :) obviously been misinterpreted by so many of you. Great! Although I'm a bit mystified as to how you have reached this understanding of the wide-spread misinterpretation that "so many of you" labor under--there doesn't seem to have been nearly enough exchange of mail to reach this mutual state of detente. In fact, I would venture to say that perhaps people are "reading into the silences" various possibilities, and even selecting the most catastrophic...without basis in fact. The "obvious," in my experience, is rarely as true as it may be perceived to be. :) For that, and that alone, I apologize to each and every one of you. I'm a bit bewildered. You're apologizing for our misinterpretation? Or for your enthusiasm? I'm not sure what "that, and that alone" refers to... :) Since joining this list I have not written an unkind word to anyone. :) Yet, my name has been the subject of vulgar jokes, my enthusiasm for :) writing has been ridiculed, and my writing itself has been compared to :) a bowel movement. all that in such a short time? my word, but you have been busy, haven't you? many people haven't gotten that much reaction after months on the list. I really don't want to make light of the fact that you feel offended. I will take it on myself to apologize for the reception you have received, with the japery of your name, the ridicule of your enthusiasm, and the anal simile for your writing. In point of fact, of course, humor about names is a common American welcome, some smiles at enthusiastic excesses are often considered encouraging, and the effort of writing has been compared to many different forms of physical exertion, from the relatively banal to the ecstatic. However, I'm fairly certain that anyone living in the United States with the family name "Charmin" has already learned that years of advertising have associated that name with a common brand of toilet paper. Further, if I may quote from your recent bio: "...I am a debater, a philosopher, a philanthropist, a philanderer, a flaneur, a student of the classics, and an avid reader of the Weekly World News. I have been called pretentious, argumentative, and every vulgar slang term you have and/or haven't heard." It seems somewhat uncharacteristic to claim to have been called "every slang term you have and/or haven't heard" one day, and then respond to the first few scathing remarks with such rapidity...One might begin to believe that the proclamation of a "well-tried armor" belongs in the same class of proclamations as that of the Emperor's new clothes. :) If anyone knows of another mailing list concerning the art of :) writing fiction wherein the members are a bit more patient and :) tolerant of beginning writers, I implore you to e-mail me the name of :) it. I am sure every other list member will be thankful to you. Since I believe it is somewhat less than a week since you introduced yourself to the list and began posting, may I ask you for a bit of patience and tolerance? In general, our list is considered to be far too patient and tolerant of beginning writers, as compared with other lists. It does sometimes take more than a day or two, and a few more exchanges than the first ranging shots, to show the list who you are and to get a reasonable feeling for the variety and breadth of the list. :) Regretfully, :) P.P. Charmin I remain, Sincerely tink