Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 11:16:17 EDT From: "give out the nudes..." Subject: FILLER: (Ramble) This and That [a lengthy ramble, words to the weft of me, words to the light of ye, and a little dot shall lead we, we, we, all the whey home...:-] Plaid, even twisted thoughts on variegated grounds of topics. Please try to avoid making the leap of irrationality required to assume that I am right simply because of who I am (I realize the halo and glowing spotlight causes some people to make assumptions, but let me reassure you that technology is the devil's playground, or something like that:-), and grant me the grace to think about and question me where you find shortfalls or outright raving lunacy in my pontifications. Rest assured that I rarely speak ex cathedra, or even ex little shrine in the woods, preferring a more mundane stance for my muddy little hooves... The topics de jar 1. Going Nomail 2. Changing the Topics 3. BIOs on file 4. INTERactive Guidelines 1. Going Nomail Shall we leap right onto the question of going nomail and other mysteries? There is a little piece that I send around every Wednesday. Has something about FAQ in the subject line. When read, it answers many Frequently Asked Questions... Rather obviously, few people read the directions. Sigh. In case you are just wondering what "going nomail" means, it refers to stopping delivery of mail from WRITERS to yourself. You might do this when going on vacation or for some other kind of break. To go nomail, send LISTSERV@mitvma.mit.edu a message with the text SET WRITERS NOMAIL Then when you want the mailstorm to resume, send LISTSERV@mitvma.mit.edu a message with the text SET WRITERS MAIL Okay? If you have other questions, please read the weekly FAQ first... (we has met the enemas--and they got us innuendo) 2. Changing the Topics Let me start with applause for the ideas and thought that went into the suggestions. I'm going to decline to change (for those who have forgotten, basically the idea was to separate out poetry--or maybe poetry and nonfiction). Let me hasten to explain that we talked some about this when we were setting up the topics in the first place, and I basically took the stance that all submissions: fiction, nonfiction, poetry, and more outre forms! should be put into one basket. Personally, I dislike the divisiveness that occurs as soon as we start slicing up the genres, even at this high level. It's rather interesting that when someone commented recently that they would be leaving the list because as a journalist they didn't want to work with fiction, there were a number of impassioned responses pointing to the idea that all writing is one. Then we turn around and want to separate the sheeps and the goats, little dreaming there may be wolves in those skins? There are technical hitches, as well--listserv supports only nine named topics. We are using seven of the nine, so we only have two left. I don't think we have enough different traffic to really make it useful to split submissions into finer hairs at listserv. I would rather save our two remaining topics for later. (oh, one nerdy point--listserv doesn't care if the topics start with the same letter, but it can't tell them apart until it hits a unique letter. If we had Prose and Poetry, for example, we'd have to type at least PR: and PO: Unique first letters just allow us to shrink down to single letters for people who want to minimize their typing.) I do think that if people will (a) start consistently and correctly using the topics we have and (b) try using some subject line identifiers--we've probably got enough to help quite a bit. [short pause while our hero clashes lance and shield in front of a windmill] Just a reminder: -Subject: re: SUB: The Never Ending Soap Suds is considered a submission by LISTSERV. If you want to make a comment or critique, use -Subject: CRIT: The Never Ending Soap Suds and when the content isn't about the writing anymore, try -Subject: FILLER: The Never Ending Soap Suds I.e. try using the topic tags correctly, and change them when the content of the message changes. (oh, let's not forget to praise the humble colon. Without it, listserv doesn't know the word is a topic, and postings gang aft algae. So exercise that right little pinky and colon:) One could even imagine people doing: -Subject: SUB: (Poem) Wordy Durds -Subject: SUB: (Romance) Shaving His Hairy Chest -Subject: SUB: (Essay) Terrorism In Human Relations which would let those who dislike certain genres delete from the subject line, although it doesn't do automated filtering for them... While such a convention has been mentioned from time to time, and some few have even tried to follow such a discipline, it is most often honored in the breach... (and the windmill grinds on, little minding the cavorting figure before it...) 3. BIOs on file Again, a resounding hand for the notion! I would love to see someone volunteer again to gather biographies (of real people or stranger). We had someone around doing that for a while (I've lost track--is someone still doing this? If so, please raise your hand and post something to remind me.) In any case, once you collect some bio's, you can use the WFILES system (read all about it in... *surprise* the FAQ!) to store these so they are available to anyone. Let me know and I'll even try to help you publicize it. As for the ideas of automating stuff--listserv is commercial software, from a vendor, running on a mainframe that I refuse to get close to. It provides some services, but not all the automation you requested. So the answer is no. If you get the impression that I am saying that if someone else will do the work, I think it will be great--YOU GOT IT! So step right up and volunteer your time and energy to organize...and maintain... and keep on keeping on... 4. INTERactive Guidelines (hisss... put off until the end and hope no one reads this far? Cowardice ill becomes you.) And, savoring the best at last, let us look at the discussions of making explicit the conventions and demi- urges underlying the newest topic. I should note that there seems to be an odd irony in seeing people appeal to me in some kind of role of authority--to justify continuing anarchic approaches? If you wish my opine, I consider the new topic (INTERactive) as a place where we can do several different things. I certainly didn't expect it to be exclusively devoted to one approach to cooperative work. First, of course, we can have the quiet chaos of spur-of- the-keyboard parties and such, lacking in de rigor, just for the halibut. Second, though, we can also pursue cooperative ventures, coordinating through preposted guidelines, private email during the course of the joust, or whatever. Once upon the list, we discussed doing robins (an earlier diversion, much like the INTERactive threads) with such aids. In fact, we did a few that way, and they seemed to have a degree of coherence that let them keep going longer than the average thrashing of mismatched lines. Third, something I would like suggest, we can continue our earlier tradition of robins with branches--each section merely adds a new name to the "list" that shows its history (tink:jc:robyn:tink:mji) and continues. We allowed, even encouraged, branches--if two or more authors added something on the same root list, they simply branched. Fourth, forgive me, but I hope to see INTERactive threads that have absolutely no relationship to the existing threads. For example, if I want to establish a "LENSPERSON UNIVERSE" thread, I don't want to deal with magic, with elves or beaches--I want it to be a pure space opera thread. Fifth, if someone wants to reconstruct the PM&I, it seems to me that this might be a reasonable place for our local news to unfold. Who knows, we might even get a journalist or two interested in the idea of writing all the news that fits and doesn't make our advertisers upsot. Sixth, just to fill out the die, I could see someone deciding to act as moderator/coordinator--providing their "world" for other people to contribute to, but editing and smoothing out the interactions. If anarchy doesn't have room for those who want some conventions, it seems to me that anarchy has lost its freedom. (go ahead and think about the logical convolutions...:-) So I beg to differ, precisely because we have our freedom, we must support the ability to declare guidelines and other conventions before, during, and even after the writing. Cripes, what kind of game is it that doesn't allow the players to fill each other in on the rules they are playing by? Certes, I can declare that in my little piece of the heavenly real estate, only truth, beauty, and the American whales shall sing their eerie hymns, but unless I tell someone that (or at least show them rather blatantly what rude beast wanders that thicket of thickening thoughts) it may be difficult for them to participate in the thread. Fiends, country bumpkins, and roans, let's face it--(oh, yeah! I always wanted to run a robin by posting the ending first, then letting the participants start where they wanted, yanking and stumbling along, with that ending somewhere out there... yet another convention or guideline, and I haven't even started to brainstorm yet!) Anyway, I really think the interactive arena--like the sub, crit, tech, filler, wow, and exercise areas--should have room for quite a few variations. For those who want conventions, they should be able to say so and do it. For those who want an area with less structure, go for it! As for how to declare your ground--one could do it and repeat it. One could stuff it into WFILES and refer to it. One could do almost anything...when you wish upon a word, your dream comes through... Sorry about the length, and the lack of cleanup... down the rathole tink