--- Log opened Sat Apr 14 21:13:56 2007
21:13:56-!- nelhage [n=nelson@LUNATIQUE.MIT.EDU] has joined #adium
21:13:56-!- Irssi: #adium: Total of 114 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 15 voices, 98 normal]
21:13:57-!- Irssi: Join to #adium was synced in 2 secs
21:14:00< eitanko>  hmm
21:14:02<+The_Tick>  to get around the tabs
21:14:08<+The_Tick>  rather than this whole mess he wants
21:14:15<+The_Tick>  it'd probably be simpler
21:14:32< tibbetts>  You kind of don't get it. The point is actually to see many chats all interleaved.
21:14:45< tibbetts>  so I don't have to look at many windows to see what is going on.
21:14:59< eitanko>  interesting
21:15:06<+The_Tick>  oh I get the point
21:15:25<+The_Tick>  but I wasn't talking to you
21:15:31< tibbetts>  ok
21:16:22<+pblair>  The_Tick: it's not really a mess, a lot of people do the same thing with irssi/bitlbee
21:16:31<+pblair>  it's an understandable request
21:16:44-!- ikeadelic [n=ike@VINEGAR-POT.MIT.EDU] has joined #adium
21:16:53<+The_Tick>  I think it's a mess
21:16:56<+The_Tick>  for a gui client
21:17:03<+The_Tick>  I don't think it's unreasonable for bitchx or irssi
21:17:24< tibbetts>  Why shouldn't people who like guis get clients that are as powerful as the best textmode clients?
21:17:48<+The_Tick>  why should they?
21:18:06<+The_Tick>  look, just download and compile the irc plugin
21:18:10<+The_Tick>  setup bittlebee somewhere
21:18:14<+The_Tick>  and that might do
21:18:17< eitanko>  tibbetts: no reason. i think that it probably wont be high priority on the list of things to implement, but im sure you could contribute it.  The_Tick just won't use it....
21:18:22<+The_Tick>  if that's how bittlebee works
21:18:37<+The_Tick>  no, it won't go into adium
21:18:47<+The_Tick>  it can go onto adiumxtras.com
21:18:51< eitanko>  oh
21:18:55< eitanko>  good point
21:19:01< tibbetts>  I've never used bittlebee, so I cant speak to that.
21:19:08-!- joshua__ [n=chatzill@YIFF.MIT.EDU] has joined #adium
21:19:43< tibbetts>  I'm certainly not going to argue it should be in mainline until it actually exists.
21:19:51< eitanko>  another good point
21:20:33<+The_Tick>  it won't go in
21:20:36<+The_Tick>  period
21:20:42<+The_Tick>  it is fine on the xtras page
21:20:46<+The_Tick>  but it won't go into the default
21:21:03< tibbetts>  To answer the question you asked, people who use gui clients should have access to powerful interfaces because increasingly chat is an application that people spend a lot of time with, so it is worth their while to learn to do it well.
21:21:04<+The_Tick>  you're the first person in the 4 years we've been on freenode that has asked for this
21:21:25<+The_Tick>  nobody on the forums has asked for this
21:21:34<+The_Tick>  my friend who uses bitchx in this way has even not asked for it in adium
21:21:44<+The_Tick>  it's not something that 80% of people would benefit from
21:21:56< tibbetts>  You're really heaping on the stop energy here. Why are you bothering?
21:22:00<+The_Tick>  we're not adding it, it's another preference for some feature that 5 people out of 100 will use
21:22:01<+The_Tick>  if that
21:22:11<+The_Tick>  I'm not saying you shouldn't do this as a plugin
21:22:14-!- obra [n=jesse@diesel.bestpractical.com] has joined #adium
21:22:15<+The_Tick>  but it won't go in the default at all
21:22:22< ikeadelic>  I'd use it :)
21:22:37<+The_Tick>  tibbetts: because you said this: tibbetts: I'm certainly not going to argue it should be in mainline until it actually exists.
21:22:48<+The_Tick>  that implies that you would argue for it at some point
21:22:58<+zac>  I tried to scroll up but I still have no idea what you're talking about.
21:22:59<+The_Tick>  I'm just being clear with you from the start that it wouldn't be in
21:23:10< tibbetts>  I would. But if you spend all the time between now and then telling me it won't be in, you are going to get pretty tired.
21:23:18<+pblair>  zac: all message views merged into one
21:23:30<+The_Tick>  tibbetts: I have no problem arguing points for years at a time
21:23:42< Lex->  Does anybody's local apple store stock in adobe products
21:23:44<+The_Tick>  ask the folks in here
21:23:50<+pblair>  tibbetts: it's true, if you can't tell already, he loves to argue :P
21:23:57<+The_Tick>  we'll help you create a plugin if you want to do it
21:23:58< Lex->  i just found it wierd that the 5th avenue apple store didn't have after effects or lightroom
21:24:02<+The_Tick>  but it won't be going into adium core
21:24:10<+The_Tick>  that's what we have the xtras site for
21:24:16<+pblair>  unless it's SUPER SEXY
21:24:23 * The_Tick doubts it
21:24:26<+pblair>  and you show it off and everyone is like "OMG WANT"
21:24:33<+The_Tick>  prove me wrong though
21:24:38<+pblair>  but yeah, that's unlikely.
21:24:47<+pblair>  it would be a cool plugin though
21:24:47< tibbetts>  Sure. Anyway, a plugin is more than fine with me.
21:24:56<+pblair>  i'm sure there's a niche market for it
21:25:03<+The_Tick>  it'd be all like this, but weirder: http://brok3n.org/rawr/Old/TabPanes4.png
21:25:29< obra>  plugins++ # They make these sorts of debates less important 
21:25:31<+The_Tick>  no tabs on the side, just intermingled
21:25:37<+The_Tick>  obra: aye
21:25:57< ikeadelic>  The_Tick: it's less weird than that when they're intermingled.
21:26:05-!- rtmfd [n=ijbaird@dsl093-152-122.phx1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit []
21:26:27<+The_Tick>  I've seen what you're wanting, no it's not
21:26:33<+The_Tick>  it's just as weird, if not weirder
21:27:01< obra>  (disclosure: I use both Adium and the client tibbetts uses with mixed views).  Being able to massage the view with keyboard commands is insanely powerful.
21:27:39< tibbetts>  I'd post a snapshot of my client, but it's full of a conversation about this conversation. :)
21:27:48<+The_Tick>  and insanely useful to only like 5-10 percent of our market
21:27:55<+The_Tick>  we go with the 80/20 rule
21:27:55< joshua__>  It's all a matter of how you're used to viewing information.  I don't think you can make a sweeping "objective-sounding" generalization like that.  (re: weird)
21:27:57< obra>  The_Tick: right. plugin
21:28:14< obra>  But having a static view that is my "only" view would make me want to hurt myself.
21:28:30<+The_Tick>  either way
21:28:34<+The_Tick>  I think the discussion is over
21:28:41< tibbetts>  So, tick, do you write code between arguments?
21:28:44<+The_Tick>  unless you guys have some specific implementation questions
21:28:46-!- julian- [n=julian-@85-211-163-9.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #adium
21:28:48< joshua__>  Also, a matter of how much you value a high ceiling to usability.  I need the ability to jump in and out of different contexts of information with my tools.  Like, tabs in firefox.
21:28:53<+The_Tick>  tibbetts: are you as big of a dick in real life?
21:28:58<+The_Tick>  or is it only on irc?
21:29:07<+pblair>  whoa whoa.
21:29:13<+pblair>  everyone relax.
21:29:18< tibbetts>  sorry, didn't meant to offend
21:29:20<+The_Tick>  you did
21:30:06<+The_Tick>  no one in here has been rude to you, you've driven most of the animosity of the conversation over the last 20 minutes
21:30:11-!- obra [n=jesse@diesel.bestpractical.com] has left #adium []
21:30:19-!- glasser [n=user@MACBOOK.MIT.EDU] has joined #adium
21:30:43< tibbetts>  fwiw, as someone who doesn't know you, I found you fairly aggressive, though I wouldn't say rude.
21:30:46<+pblair>  The_Tick: I don't think he has driven an animosity... ?
21:30:56< tibbetts>  Obviously I'm new to this channel.
21:30:59<+pblair>  s/an/any/
21:31:05<+The_Tick>  tibbetts: that's how I am
21:31:33<+The_Tick>  in real life and in irc
21:31:40< tibbetts>  It can be tough for people to understand the nuances of that over a text medium.
21:31:47<+The_Tick>  sure, however
21:32:00<+The_Tick>  until I asked if you were a dick, I was not rude to you
21:32:01< rob-to86>  tibbets: he's always like that :(
21:32:04< vraa>  haha
21:32:29<+The_Tick>  tibbetts: however, you were pretty angry the entire time
21:32:35<+The_Tick>  or at least it felt that way
21:32:45< vraa>  i'm sure it was a misunderstanding on both ends.
21:32:52<+The_Tick>  no, I'm pretty sure of it
21:32:57< vraa>  but as long as we know that what has happened it's happened
21:33:15<+The_Tick>  vraa: when people hear that their pet feature won't go into adium by default, sometimes they get angry
21:33:30< vraa>  The_Tick: so what kind of hidden features do you think will be in 10.5 that'll "blow people away" ?
21:33:37-!- eitanko_ [n=eitan@cpe-72-225-237-159.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #adium
21:33:41< tibbetts>  I certainly am not angry, and didn't mean to come across as angry
21:33:44< ikeadelic>  ...I'm looking through my month or so of scrollback for something I can screenshot...
21:34:00<+The_Tick>  vraa: they'll ship the DNA of steve jobs with every disk
21:34:00< tibbetts>  I usually don't get angry about software
21:34:07<+The_Tick>  tibbetts: felt that way
21:34:11< vraa>  well, i'm kinda disappointed that my neural network wont be prioritized, but that's how the cookie crumbles
21:34:17-!- jfro2 [n=jfro@pool-72-65-105-156.ptldme.east.verizon.net] has joined #adium
21:34:20< vraa>  well, i dont need steve's dna, as good as it is
21:34:26<+The_Tick>  no no
21:34:31<+The_Tick>  it allows you to make a mini-steve
21:34:35<+The_Tick>  anyhow, I'm outty
21:34:36<+pblair>  vraa: neural net? I thought you were after thought control?
21:34:39< vraa>  yeah, but i realllly have no use in that haha
21:34:40< vraa>  bye tick
21:34:42 * The_Tick wonders if the wife wants sushi
21:34:55< vraa>  pblair: whichever gets me closer to attaining niravana
21:34:59 * pblair waves
21:35:05<+pblair>  pick me up some pocky :P
21:35:13<+pblair>  hehe
21:35:27-!- glasser [n=user@MACBOOK.MIT.EDU] has quit ["ERC Version 5.1.4 (IRC client for Emacs)"]
21:35:30<+pblair>  "Adium 1.1 - Now featuring nirvana inducing states!"
21:35:41< vraa>  oh, you're turning me on.
21:35:42< vraa>  haha
--- Log closed Sat Apr 14 21:35:49 2007