BABYL OPTIONS: Version: 5 Note: This is the header of an rmail file. Note: If you are seeing it in rmail, Note: it means the file has no messages in it.  1, answered,, Summary-line: 28-Dec Alan Nishioka #Re: AFM vs. PFM Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02571; Wed, 28 Dec 94 18:21:02 EST Received: from tx.abekas.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02304; Wed, 28 Dec 94 18:20:58 EST Received: from wa.abekas.com by abekas.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-gw) id AA29057; Wed, 28 Dec 94 15:20:55 PST Received: from lws.wa by wa.abekas.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05365; Wed, 28 Dec 94 15:18:36 PST Date: Wed, 28 Dec 94 15:18:36 PST From: alann@abekas.com (Alan Nishioka) Message-Id: <9412282318.AA05365@wa.abekas.com> Received: by lws.wa (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29700; Wed, 28 Dec 94 15:21:01 PST To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: AFM vs. PFM Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript References: <3dsg4q$bus@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 28 Dec 94 15:18:36 PST From: alann@abekas.com (Alan Nishioka) To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: AFM vs. PFM Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript References: <3dsg4q$bus@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> I asked a similar question a couple of months ago. This is what I got.... _______________________________________________________________________________ Alan Nishioka alann@abekas.com 415 599-3024 Abekas Video Systems 101 Galveston Drive Redwood City CA 94063 From 100126.1304@CompuServe.COM Thu Nov 24 13:00:27 1994 Return-Path: <100126.1304@CompuServe.COM> Received: from mhadg.production.compuserve.com by abekas.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-gw) id AA09201; Thu, 24 Nov 94 13:00:19 PST Received: (from news@localhost) by mhadg.production.compuserve.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA02362; Thu, 24 Nov 1994 16:00:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 16:00:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199411242100.QAA02362@mhadg.production.compuserve.com> From: Aandi inston <100126.1304@CompuServe.COM> To: alann@abekas.com In-Reply-To: alann@tx.abekas.com (Alan Nishioka)'s message <3b0955$1hl@tx.abekas.com> Subject: PFM file format? Organization: via CompuServe Information Service Status: R The PFM file format is owned by Microsoft and is used not only for PostScript fonts. It is documented in the Microsoft Windows Device Driver kit (DDK). -- Aandi Inston Internet: 100126.1304@compuserve.com From comp.lang.postscript Fri Nov 25 12:16:29 1994 Path: abekas!netcomsv!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!hookup!caen!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!fawlty6.eng.monash.edu.au!rjl From: rjl@fawlty6.eng.monash.edu.au (Russell Lang) Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: PFM file format? Date: 24 Nov 1994 22:38:01 GMT Organization: Monash University Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3b34k9$pd7@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au> References: <3b0955$1hl@tx.abekas.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fawlty6.eng.monash.edu.au X-NNTP-Posting-User: rjl alann@tx.abekas.com (Alan Nishioka) writes: >Does anyone know what the format for a .pfm file is? >I have searched the faq and could find no information. >Any ideas where else I could look? >All I know is that it is a font metric file that is distributed with >PostScript fonts for MS Windows. (Instead of an AFM (Adobe Font Metric) file). >It is a binary format, instead of a text-only format. PFM is the MS-Windows Printer Font Metric format. It is not a PostScript file format. The PFM file format is documented in the MS-Windows Device Driver Kit. I have a program for converting from afm2pfm, which I have been meaning to upload to an archive site. A program pfm2afm is available from hobbes.nmsu.edu in pub/os2/multimed/fonts -- Russell Lang Email: rjl@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au Phone: (03) 905 5708 Department of Electrical and Computer Systems Engineering Monash University, Australia  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 18-Jan Marc Horowitz #[comp.unix.bsd] Re: Fast File System: optimizing arguments to newfs Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28776; Wed, 18 Jan 95 12:14:21 EST Received: from pad-thai.cam.ov.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29891; Wed, 18 Jan 95 12:13:46 EST Received: from dun-dun-noodles.cam.ov.com by pad-thai.cam.ov.com (8.6.8/) with SMTP id ; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 12:15:40 -0500 From: Marc Horowitz Received: by dun-dun-noodles.cam.ov.com (4.1/4.7) id AA07042; Wed, 18 Jan 95 12:15:38 EST Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 12:15:38 EST Message-Id: <9501181715.AA07042@dun-dun-noodles.cam.ov.com> To: lore@MIT.EDU, lore@cam.ov.com Cc: eng@cam.ov.com, sipb-staff@MIT.EDU Subject: [comp.unix.bsd] Re: Fast File System: optimizing arguments to newfs *** EOOH *** From: Marc Horowitz Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 12:15:38 EST To: lore@MIT.EDU, lore@cam.ov.com Cc: eng@cam.ov.com, sipb-staff@MIT.EDU Subject: [comp.unix.bsd] Re: Fast File System: optimizing arguments to newfs This seems to be a very clued post about choosing the free-space parameter for large disks. Other posts dealt with inodes and block sizes, but I think those are more obvious. I think everyone I've addressed uses big disks and could make use of this information. Marc ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: alan@nabeth.cxo.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Dr. File System's Home for Wayward Inodes.) Newsgroups: comp.unix.internals,comp.unix.bsd Subject: Re: Fast File System: optimizing arguments to newfs Date: 17 Jan 1995 23:24:25 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Distribution: world Reply-To: alan@nabeth.cxo.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Dr. File System's Home for Wayward Inodes.) NNTP-Posting-Host: nabeth.cxo.dec.com In article , marc@cam.ov.com (Marc Horowitz) writes: > > 1) News spool. Lots and lots of small files. > 2) Random storage. User homedirs, some packages, etc. Widely >varying file sizes. > 3) JPEG archive (since I don't know if I want to use GIF's anymore >:-). Generally very big files. Other posters have commented on what to use for number of inodes, block and fragment size. The only suggestion I can add is, where feasible, benchmark. This may be especially useful when chosing the fragment size for a file system destined to hold large files. If an implementation is notably faster having the block and fragment size be the same, a benchmark should show it. Such a choice probably only matters when the files are being written. If the disk is really going to be an archive, and not written much, then write time isn't as important as read time. Chosing a value for minfree is a different matter. The 10% value for minfree was found to be a good one when disks were in the 67 to 512 MB range, with the typical probably around 250 MB. With 2 GB disks common and 9 GB disks available, giving up between 200 and 900 MB is probably overkill. So what's a better value? The goal of having some free space is to allow the allocation algorithms to be able to quickly find some free space for a file. Further the search is done by cylinder group, so the goal is to have reasonable free space per cylinder group. So, rather than a general percentage, it might be best to see how a given percent allows for each cylinder group. Example; if minfree is 2% on a 2 GB disk (~40 MB) and there are 300 cylinder groups, each should average 136 KB free, when the disk is full (for user allocations). If the disk has 40 cylinder groups though, it will average 1 MB per group. Both may be perfectly reasonable value depending on the files being allocated. Taking the RM05, one of the MASSBUS disks for which the 10% value was chosen we might get a clue. It had 250,192 KB, spread among 832 cylinders (32 x 19). 10% of this was about 25,000 KB. At a default of 16 cylinders per group there would have been 52 cylinder groups. Thus, the 10% minfree would have represented about 480 KB per group. Now, I'll apply the 480 KB per group average to a 2 GB disk, the RZ28. It has 2,055,240 KB in 2595 cylinders (99 x 16, reported geometry). Using the newfs defaults it will have 163 cylinder groups. At 480 KB per group this will be 78,240 KB or 3.81% of the capacity, well below the "standard" 10% value for minfree. The harder question is whether the magic number of 480 KB per group derived from the RM05 is sufficient today for a similar work-load. If it is a good guideline (around half a MB), then it offers a good clue what the "right" value for minfree will be given the number of cylinder groups and capacity. Some adjustments will need to be made for work-load. A write intensive work-load on a file system designed for large files will probably want more free space per group than typical, if only to keep long contiguous strings together (maxcontig). For ULTRIX and OSF (can't speak for other implementations), the most contiguous space that will be allocated within a cylinder no matter the size of value of maxbpg is 16 MB, the amount address by an indirect block. For your implementation, you may want to see if this is true and take it into account when designing a FFS for large files. > >*How* do I want to choose parameters for newfs for these disks? >Examples welcome. > > Marc > -- Alan Rollow alan@nabeth.cxo.dec.com ------- End of forwarded message -------  1, answered,, Summary-line: 8-Mar mcmullan@MIT.EDU #anonftp.html Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19052; Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:44:14 EST Received: from CACCIATORE.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08247; Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:44:12 EST From: mcmullan@MIT.EDU Received: by cacciatore.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA06882; Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:44:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:44:07 -0500 Message-Id: <9503082344.AA06882@cacciatore.MIT.EDU> X-Within-Url: http://iss.net/~iss/anonftp.html To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: anonftp.html *** EOOH *** From: mcmullan@MIT.EDU Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:44:07 -0500 X-Within-Url: http://iss.net/~iss/anonftp.html To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: anonftp.html ANONYMOUS FTP FAQ Version: 2.0 _________________________________________________________________ This Security FAQ is a resource provided by: Internet Security Systems, Inc. 2000 Miller Court West Tel: (404) 441-2531 Norcross, Georgia 30071 Fax: (404) 441-2431 - Computer Security Consulting - Penetration Analysis of Networks - _________________________________________________________________ To get the newest updates of Security files check the following services: mail info@iss.net with "send index" in message ftp iss.net /pub/ _________________________________________________________________ How to Set up a Secure Anonymous FTP Site The following is a FAQ on setting up a secure FTP Site. FTP sites are known for much abuse by transferring illegal files. They also open many oppurtunities for intruders to gain access via misconfigured setups. And lastly many versions of ftp servers have had security holes. This FAQ is intended to clean up this abuse by allowing administrators to go through this check list of steps to make sure their FTP is correctly configured and that they are running the most current ftp daemon. This is organized in the following fashion, I am breaking into several parts as follows: 1. General Description of Setting up an "Anonymous" FTP server. 2. Setting up a chrooted Secure Anonymous FTP server. 3. OS Specific needed information and suggestions. 4. Where to get other FTP daemons 5. How to Know if your Anonymous FTP Server is Secure 6. Archie _________________________________________________________________ 1. GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF SETTING UP AN "ANONYMOUS" FTP SERVER. 1. Create the user ftp in /etc/passwd. Use a misc group. The user's home directory will be ~ftp where ~ftp is the root you wish anonymous users to see. Creating this user turns on anonymous ftp. Use an invalid password and user shell for better security. The entry in the passwd file should look something like: ftp:*:400:400:Anonymous FTP:/home/ftp:/bin/true 2. Create the home directory ~ftp. Make the directory owned by root (NOT ftp) with the same group as ftp. Thus, owner permissions are for root and group permissions are for the anonymous users. Set the permissions for ~ftp to 555 (read, nowrite, execute). Warning: Some MAN pages recommend making the ~ftp directory owned by ftp. This is a big NO-NO, if you want any type of security on your system. 3. Create the directory ~ftp/bin. This directory is owned by root (group e.g. wheel) with permissions 111 (noread, nowrite, execute). 4. Copy the program ls into ~ftp/bin. ls is owned by root with permissions 111 (noread, nowrite, execute). Any other commands you put in ~ftp/bin should have the same permissions as well. 5. Make the directory ~ftp/etc. This directory is owned by root with permissions 111. 6. Create from scratch the files /etc/passwd and /etc/group in ~ftp/etc. These files should be mode 444. The passwd file should only contain root, daemon, uucp, and ftp. The group file must contain ftp's group. Use your /etc/passwd and /etc/group files as a template for creating passwd and group files going to ~ftp/etc. You may even change the user names in this file, they are used only for 'ls' command. So for example if all files in your ~ftp/pub/linux hierarchy will be maintained by a real user 'balon' with uid=156 you may put linux:*:156:120:Kazik Balon:: in the ~ftp/etc/passwd file (regardless of his real username). Leave only these users who will own files under ftp hierarchy (e.g. root, daemon, ftp...) and definitely remove *ALL* passwords by replacing them with '*' so the entry looks like: root:*:0:0:Ftp maintainer:: ftp:*:400:400: Anonymous ftp:: For more security, you can just remove ~ftp/etc/passwd and ~ftp/etc/group (the effect is that ls -l will not show the directories' group names). Wuarchive ftp daemon (and some others) have some extensions based on the contents of the group/passwd files, so read the appropriate documentation. 7. Make the directory ~ftp/pub. This directory is owned by you and has the same group as ftp with permissions 555. On most systems (like SunOS) you may want to make this directory 2555, ie. set-group-id, in order to create new files with the same group ownership. Files are left here for public distribution. All folders inside ~ftp/pub should have the same permissions as 555. Warning: Neither the home directory (~ftp) nor any directory below it should be owned by ftp! No files should be owned by ftp either. Modern ftp daemons support all kinds of useful commands, such as chmod, that allow outsiders to undo your careful permission settings. They also have configuration options like the following (WuFTP) to disable them: # all the following default to "yes" for everybody delete no guest,anonymous # delete permission? overwrite no guest,anonymous # overwrite permission? rename no guest,anonymous # rename permission? chmod no anonymous # chmod permission? umask no anonymous # umask permission? 8. If you wish to have a place for anonymous users to leave files, create the directory ~ftp/pub/incoming. This directory is owned by root with permissions 733. Do a 'chmod +t ~ftp/pub/incoming'. The ftp daemon will normally not allow an anonymous user to overwrite an existing file, but a normal user of the system would be able to delete anything. By setting the mode to '1733' you prevent this from happening. In wuftpd you may configure the daemon to create new files with permissions '600' owned by root or any other user. Many times, incoming directories are abused by exchanging pirated and pornographic material. Abusers often create hidden directories there for this purpose. Making the incoming directory unreadable by anonymous ftp helps to some extent. With ordinary ftp severs there is no way to prevent directories being created in incoming. The WUarchive ftp server can limit uploads to certain directories and can restrict characters used in file names like this: # specify the upload directory information upload /var/spool/ftp * no upload /var/spool/ftp /incoming yes ftp staff 0600 nodirs # path filters # path-filter... path-filter anonymous /etc/msgs/pathmsg ^[-A-Za-z0-9_\.]*$ ^\. ^- path-filter guest /etc/msgs/pathmsg ^[-A-Za-z0-9_\.]*$ ^\. ^- Suggestion: Create an extra file-system for your ftp-area (or at least for your incoming-area) to prevent a denial-of-service attack by filling your disk with garbage (inside your incoming directory). If you have wuftpd you may want to add some ftp extensions like compression/decompression 'on the fly' or creation of tar files for the directory hierarchies. Get the appropriate sources (gzip, gnutar, compress), compile them and link statically, put in the ~ftp/bin directory and edit the appropriate file containing the definitions of the allowed conversions. /usr/bin/tar is already statically-linked. You may wish to use gnu tar anyway. Gary Mills wrote a small program to support the following: To do tar and compress, he wrote a tiny program called `pipe', and statically-linked it. His /etc/ftpconversions file looks like this: #strip prefix:strip postfix:addon prefix:addon postfix:external command: #types:options:description :.Z: : :/bin/compress -d -c %s:T_REG|T_ASCII:O_UNCOMPRESS:UNCOMPRESS :-z: : :/bin/compress -d -c %s:T_REG|T_ASCII:O_UNCOMPRESS:UNCOMPRESS : : :.Z:/bin/compress -c %s:T_REG:O_COMPRESS:COMPRESS : : :.tar:/bin/tar cf - %s:T_REG|T_DIR:O_TAR:TAR : : :.tar.Z:/bin/pipe /bin/tar cf - %s | /bin/compress -c:T_REG|T_DIR:O_COMP RESS|O_TAR:TAR+COMPRESS : : :.tar:/bin/gtar -c -f - %s:T_REG|T_DIR:O_TAR:TAR : : :.tar.Z:/bin/gtar -c -Z -f - %s:T_REG|T_DIR:O_COMPRESS|O_TAR:TAR+COMPRES S : : :.tar.gz:/bin/gtar -c -z -f - %s:T_REG|T_DIR:O_COMPRESS|O_TAR:TAR+GZIP Here it is: -----------------8 /* pipe.c: exec two commands in a pipe */ #define NULL (char *)0 #define MAXA 16 main(argc, argv) int argc; char *argv[]; { char *av1[MAXA], *av2[MAXA]; int i, n, p[2], cpid; i = 0; n = 0; while ( ++i | \n", 34); exit(1); } -------- CUT HERE ------------ 9. Other things to do: as root: touch ~ftp/.rhosts touch ~ftp/.forward chmod 400 ~ftp/.rhosts chmod 400 ~ftp/.forward ie. make these files zero-length and owned by root. Due to the last /bin/mail bugs in SunOS: touch /usr/spool/mail/ftp; chmod 400 /usr/spool/mail/ftp Consider an email-alias for the ftp-admin(s) to provide an email-address for problems-reports. If you are mounting some disks from other machines (or even your own) to the ~ftp hierarchy, mount it read-only. The correct entry for the /etc/fstab (on the host with ftpd) is something like: other:/u1/linux /home/ftp/pub/linux nfs ro,noquota,nosuid,intr,bg 1 0 This mounts under /home/ftp/pub/linux the disk from host 'other' with no quota, no 'suid' programs (just in case), interruptible (in case 'other' goes down) and 'bg' - so if 'other' is down when you reboot it will not stop you trying to mount /home/ftp/pub/linux all over again. _________________________________________________________________ 2. SETTING UP A CHROOTED SECURE ANONYMOUS FTP SERVER. THIS PART WAS CONTRIBUTED BY MARCUS J RANUM 1. Build a statically linked version of ftpd and put it in ~ftp/bin. Make sure it's owned by root. 2. Build a statically linked version of /bin/ls if you'll need one. Put it in ~ftp/bin. If you are on a Sun, and need to build one, there's a ported version of the BSD net2 ls command for SunOs on ftp.tis.com: pub/firewalls/toolkit/patches/ls.tar.Z Make sure it's owned by root. 3. Chown ~ftp to root and make it mode 755 THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT 4. Set up copies of ~ftp/etc/passwd and ~ftp/etc/group just as you would normally, EXCEPT make 'ftp's home directory '/' -- make sure they are owned by root. 5. Write a wrapper to kick ftpd off and install it in /etc/inetd.conf The wrapper should look something like: (assuming ~ftp = /var/ftp) main() { if(chdir("/var/ftp")) { perror("chdir /var/ftp"); exit(1); } if(chroot("/var/ftp")) { perror("chroot /var/ftp"); exit(1); } /* optional: seteuid(FTPUID); */ execl("/bin/ftpd","ftpd","-l",(char *)0); perror("exec /bin/ftpd"); exit(1); } Options: You can use 'netacl' from the toolkit or tcp_wrappers to achieve the same effect. We use 'netacl' to switch so that a few machines that connect to the FTP service *don't* get chrooted first. This makes transferring files a bit less painful. You may also wish to take your ftpd sources and find all the places where it calls seteuid() and remove them, then have the wrapper do a setuid(ftp) right before the exec. This means that if someone knows a hole that makes them "root" they still won't be. Relax and imagine how frustrated they will be. If you're hacking ftpd sources, I suggest you turn off a bunch of the options in ftpcmd.y by unsetting the "implemented" flag in ftpcmd.y. This is only practical if your FTP area is read-only. 6. As usual, make a pass through the FTP area and make sure that the files are in correct modes and that there's nothing else in there that can be executed. 7. Note, now, that your FTP area's /etc/passwd is totally separated from your real /etc/passwd. This has advantages and disadvantages. 8. Some stuff may break, like syslog, since there is no /dev/log. Either build a version of ftpd with a UDP-based syslog() routine or run a second syslogd based on the BSD Net2 code, that maintains a unix-domain socket named ~ftp/dev/log with the -p flag. REMEMBER: If there is a hole in your ftpd that lets someone get "root" access they can do you some damage even chrooted. It's just lots harder. If you're willing to hack some code, making the ftpd run without permissions is a really good thing. The correct operation of your hacked ftpd can be verified by connecting to it and (while it's still at the user prompt) do a ps-axu and verify that it's not running as root. ________________________________________________________________________ 3. OS SPECIFIC NEEDED INFORMATION AND SUGGESTIONS. THESE MACHINES MAY NEED DEV/TCP: * Older SVR2 and SVR3 system * RTU 6.0 (Masscomp, now Concurrent Real Time UNIX), * AT&T 3B1 and 3B2 machines [dev/tcp] THESE FTPD IMPLEMENTATIONS MAY REQUIRE A ~FTP/DEV/TCP IN ORDER FOR ANONYMOUS FTP TO WORK. YOU HAVE TO CREATE A CHARACTER SPECIAL DEVICE WITH THE APPROPRIATE MAJOR AND MINOR DEVICE NUMBERS. THE APPROPRIATE MAJOR AND MINOR NUMBERS OF ~FTP/DEV/TCP ARE WHAT THE MAJOR AND MINOR NUMBERS OF /DEV/TCP ARE. THE ~FTP/DEV IS A DIRECTORY AND ~FTP/DEV/TCP IS A CHARACTER SPECIAL DEVICE. MAKE THEM OWNED AND GROUPED BY ROOT. PERMISSIONS FOR ~FTP/DEV IS ROOT READ/WRITE/EXEC AND OTHER & GROUP READ AND EXEC. THE PERMISSIONS FOR ~FTP/DEV/TCP IS ROOT READ/WRITE, OTHER & GROUP READ. HPUX [LOGGING] IF YOU'RE USING HP'S NATIVE FTPD, THE LINE IN /ETC/INETD.CONF SHOULD EXECUTE FTPD -L, WHICH DOES EXTRA LOGGING. SunOS [LIBRARIES] TO SET UP SUNOS TO USE ITS SHARED DYNAMIC LIBRARIES, FOLLOW THESE STEPS: 1. Create the directory ~ftp/usr. This directory is owned by root with permissions 555. 2. Create the directory ~ftp/usr/lib. This directory is owned by root with permissions 555. 3. Copy the runtime loader ld.so into ~ftp/usr/lib for use by ls. ld.so is owned by root with permissions 555. 4. Copy the latest version of the shared C library, libc.so.* into ~ftp/usr/lib for use by ls. libc.so.* is owned by root with permissions 555. Note: 4.1.2(or above) users: you also need to copy /usr/lib/libdl.so.* to ~ftp/lib. 5. Create the directory ~ftp/dev. This directory is owned by root with permissions 111. 6. ~ftp/dev/zero is needed by the runtime loader. Move into the directory ~ftp/dev and create it with the command: mknod zero c 3 12 chown ~ftp/dev/zero to root. Make sure it's readable. Warning: For novices: Don't try to copy /dev/zero to ~ftp/dev/zero! This is an endless file of zeroes and it will completely fill your filesystem! 7. If you want to have the local time showing when people connect, create the directory ~ftp/usr/share/lib/zoneinfo and copy /usr/share/lib/zoneinfo/localtime 8. If you are bothered by the need for copying your libraries so that you can use Sun's 'ls', which is dynamically linked, you can try to get a statically linked copy of 'ls' instead. The CD-ROM that contains Sun's OS has a statically-linked version of ls. In this case, you can dispense with steps #6-8. Statically linked versions may be available from the following sources: If you want a statically linked "ls" get the GNU fileutils off a archive site near you and statically link it. [Logging] Sun's standard ftpd logs *all* password information. To correct it, install patch: 101640-03 SunOS 4.1.3: in.ftpd logs password info when -d option is used. In /etc/inetd.conf find the line that starts with "ftp". At the end of that line, it should read "in.ftpd". Change that to "in.ftpd -dl". In /etc/syslog.conf, add a line that looks like: daemon.* /var/adm/daemonlog The information can be separated (or like SunOs4.1.1 does not recognize daemon.* so it requires the following form), such as: daemon.info /var/adm/daemon.info daemon.debug /var/adm/daemon.debug daemon.err /var/adm/daemon.err Note that the whitespace between the two columns must include at least one TAB character, not just spaces, or it won't work. Of course your log file could be anything you want. Then, create the logfile (touch /var/adm/daemonlog should do). Finally, restart inetd and syslogd, either individually, or by rebooting the system. You should be good to go. If you do not install the patch, make sure the log file is owned by root and mode 600, as the ftp daemon will log *everything*, including users' passwords. Warning: You want to make all logs root only readable for security reasons If a user mistypes his password for his username, it could be compromised if anyone can read the log files. ________________________________________________________________________ 4. WHERE TO GET OTHER FTP DAEMONS * Wuarchive FTP 2.4- A secure FTP daemon that allows improved access-control, logging, pre-login banners, and is very configurable: Can be ftp'd from ftp.uu.net in "/networking/ftp/wuarchive-ftpd" directory. Be certain to verify the checksum information to confirm that you have retrieved a valid copy. [Warning: Older versions of Wu-FTP are extremely insecure and in some cases have been trojaned.] BSD SVR4 File Checksum Checksum MD5 Digital Signature ----------------- -------- --------- -------------------------------- wu-ftpd-2.4.tar.Z 38213 181 20337 362 cdcb237b71082fa23706429134d8c32e patch_2.3-2.4.Z 09291 8 51092 16 5558a04d9da7cdb1113b158aff89be8f * For DECWRL ftpd, sites can obtain version 5.93 via anonymous FTP from gatekeeper.dec.com in the "/pub/misc/vixie" directory. BSD SVR4 File Checksum Checksum MD5 Digital Signature ----------------- -------- --------- -------------------------------- ftpd.tar.gz 38443 60 1710 119 ae624eb607b4ee90e318b857e6573500 * For BSDI systems, patch 005 should be applied to version 1.1 of the BSD/386 software. You can obtain the patch file via anonymous FTP from ftp.bsdi.com in the "/bsdi/patches-1.1" directory. BSD SVR4 File Checksum Checksum MD5 Digital Signature ----------------- -------- --------- -------------------------------- BU110-005 35337 272 54935 543 1f454d4d9d3e1397d1eff0432bd383cf * Public Domain Sources: ftp.uu.net ~ftp/systems/unix/bsd-sources/libexec/ftpd gatekeeper.dec.com ~ftp/pub/DEC/gwtools/ftpd.tar.Z ________________________________________________________________________ 5. HOW TO KNOW IF YOUR ANONYMOUS FTP SERVER IS SECURE THIS SECTION IS INTENDED FOR THE ADMINISTRATOR TO GO DOWN A SMALL CHECK LIST OF THINGS TO MAKE SURE HIS SERVER IS NOT EASILY COMPROMISED. 1. Check to make sure your ftp server does not have SITE EXEC command by telneting to port 21 and typing SITE EXEC. If your ftp daemon has SITE EXEC make sure it is the most current version (ie, Wu-FTP 2.4). In older versions this allows anyone to gain shell via port 21. 2. Check to make sure no one can log in and make files or directories in the main directory. If anyone can log in as anonymous FTP and make files such as .rhosts and .forward, instant access is granted to any intruder. 3. Check to make sure the main directory is NOT owned by ftp. If it is owned by FTP, an intruder could SITE CHMOD 777 the main directory and then plant files to give him instant access. SITE CHMOD command should be removed because anonymous users do not need any extra priviledges. 4. Check to make sure NO files or directories are owned by ftp. If they are, it is possible an intruder could replace them with his own trojan versions. 5. There were several bugs in old daemons, so it is very important to make sure you are running the most current ftp daemons. ________________________________________________________________________ 6. ARCHIE SEARCHES FTP SITES FOR PROGRAMS. LOGIN INTO THESE SITES AS ARCHIE OR USE CLIENT SOFTWARE FOR FASTER ACCESS. TO GET YOUR OWN ANONYMOUS SITE ADDED TO ARCHIE'S SEARCH LIST, E-MAIL ARCHIE-UPDATES@BUNYIP.COM. archie.ac.il 132.65.20.254 (Israel server) archie.ans.net 147.225.1.10 (ANS server, NY (USA)) archie.au 139.130.4.6 (Australian Server) archie.doc.ic.ac.uk 146.169.11.3 (United Kingdom Server) archie.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at 140.78.3.8 (Austrian Server) archie.funet.fi 128.214.6.102 (Finnish Server) archie.internic.net 198.49.45.10 (AT&T server, NY (USA)) archie.kr 128.134.1.1 (Korean Server) archie.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp 130.54.20.1 (Japanese Server) archie.luth.se 130.240.18.4 (Swedish Server) archie.ncu.edu.tw 140.115.19.24 (Taiwanese server) archie.nz 130.195.9.4 (New Zealand server) archie.rediris.es 130.206.1.2 (Spanish Server) archie.rutgers.edu 128.6.18.15 (Rutgers University (USA)) archie.sogang.ac.kr 163.239.1.11 (Korean Server) archie.sura.net 128.167.254.195 (SURAnet server MD (USA)) archie.sura.net(1526) 128.167.254.195 (SURAnet alt. MD (USA)) archie.switch.ch 130.59.1.40 (Swiss Server) archie.th-darmstadt.de 130.83.22.60 (German Server) archie.unipi.it 131.114.21.10 (Italian Server) archie.univie.ac.at 131.130.1.23 (Austrian Server) archie.unl.edu 129.93.1.14 (U. of Nebraska, Lincoln (USA)) archie.univ-rennes1.fr (French Server) archie.uqam.ca 132.208.250.10 (Canadian Server) archie.wide.ad.jp 133.4.3.6 (Japanese Server) ________________________________________________________________________ ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS THANKS TO THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE FOR SUGGESTIONS THAT HELP SHAPE THIS FAQ: Tomasz Surmacz (tsurmacz@asic.ict.pwr.wroc.pl) Wolfgang Ley (Ley@rz.tu-clausthal.de) Russel Street (russells@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz) Gary Mills (mills@CC.UManitoba.CA) Mirsad Todorovac (mirsad.todorovac@etf.hr) Nicholas Ironmonger (ndi@sam.math.ethz.ch) Morten Welinder (terra@diku.dk) Nick Christenson (npc@minotaur.jpl.nasa.gov) Mark Hanning-Lee (markhl@romoe.caltech.edu) Marcus J Ranum ________________________________________________________________________ COPYRIGHT This paper is Copyright (c) 1994, 1995 by Christopher Klaus of Internet Security Systems, Inc. PERMISSION IS HEREBY GRANTED TO GIVE AWAY FREE COPIES ELECTRONICALLY. YOU MAY DISTRIBUTE, TRANSFER, OR SPREAD THIS PAPER ELECTRONICALLY. YOU MAY NOT PRETEND THAT YOU WROTE IT. THIS COPYRIGHT NOTICE MUST BE MAINTAINED IN ANY COPY MADE. IF YOU WISH TO REPRINT THE WHOLE OR ANY PART OF THIS PAPER IN ANY OTHER MEDIUM EXCLUDING ELECTRONIC MEDIUM, PLEASE ASK THE AUTHOR FOR PERMISSION. DISCLAIMER THE INFORMATION WITHIN THIS PAPER MAY CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE. USE OF THIS INFORMATION CONSTITUTES ACCEPTANCE FOR USE IN AN AS IS CONDITION. THERE ARE NO WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO THIS INFORMATION. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR SPREAD OF THIS INFORMATION. ANY USE OF THIS INFORMATION IS AT THE USER'S OWN RISK. ADDRESS OF AUTHOR PLEASE SEND SUGGESTIONS, UPDATES, AND COMMENTS TO: Christopher Klaus of Internet Security Systems, Inc.  1,, Summary-line: 14-Mar Samuel Goldberger #Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13996; Tue, 14 Mar 95 18:52:26 EST Received: from orb.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24007; Tue, 14 Mar 95 18:52:23 EST Received: by orb.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA01499; Tue, 14 Mar 95 15:50:18 -0800 Message-Id: <9503142350.AA01499@orb.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Samuel Goldberger Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 15:50:15 -0800 To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's References: <9503141718.AA03576@milo.mit.edu> *** EOOH *** Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) From: Samuel Goldberger Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 15:50:15 -0800 To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's References: <9503141718.AA03576@milo.mit.edu> Dave: You wrote: > I have a NeXT Turbo Cube. Will the EPB work in it? Yes, > I'd like to make it my print server. Do I need a second > monitor/keyboard? How about a second disk? Ideally, you'd have a second keyboard and mouse and a second hard drive; but you could get away with just a soundbox or soundboard from a dead monitor. I can sell you one of these for $50, though you'd need a cable as well. The board will operate fine without these, as a netboot client, but you can't get the windowserver running, and this is what is required for print service. > Basically, I'd like to know what I get for $100, and what else is > needed to get it working in my cube. What you get is the board, modified to run in another slot, no RAM (you need at least 4 megs), and some software that aids in configuring the board, and in powering it up and shutting it down gracefully. You will need to supply a short length of ethernet cable and terminators, assuming your machine isn't already on a LAN. If you'd like more information, please call and I will be happy to talk with you about its virtues and drawbacks. Sam --- Samuel M. Goldberger smg@orb.com Spherical Solutions 47 Myrtle Avenue Mill Valley, CA 94941 415-383-2919--voice 415-381-9556--fax  1,, Summary-line: 28-Mar eichin@cygnus.com #Dinner conversation on RSA in Perl Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24297; Wed, 29 Mar 95 13:03:50 EST Received: from relay4.UU.NET by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04209; Wed, 29 Mar 95 13:02:08 EST Received: from cygnus.com by relay4.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQyjem13886; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:02:04 -0500 Received: from tweedledumb.cygnus.com (tweedledumb.cygnus.com [192.80.44.1]) by cygnus.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA25863; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:01:53 -0800 Received: by tweedledumb.cygnus.com (4.1/4.7) id AA17947; Wed, 29 Mar 95 13:01:48 EST Received: by perdiem.cygnus.com (5.67/4.7) id AA00109; Tue, 28 Mar 95 09:40:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 09:40:29 -0500 Message-Id: <9503281440.AA00109@perdiem.cygnus.com> To: rav_eaters@MIT.EDU Subject: Dinner conversation on RSA in Perl From: eichin@cygnus.com *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 09:40:29 -0500 To: rav_eaters@MIT.EDU Subject: Dinner conversation on RSA in Perl From: eichin@cygnus.com We were talking about this at dinner on Monday, so I thought I'd forward it. The example is amusing. _Mark_ SUB: Re: Strange RSA Keys--Is It Me, or Is It Them? SUM: aba@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Adam Back)->Cryptography-Digest@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU > Lately I've been experimenting with my own little version of RSA > that I've hacked up in perl. Recently, though, I've been getting > really confused. I have a few sets of keys that I generated that > don't seem to make much sense. [calculations] All the maths you show checks ok for me (n, phi, G, F) where things go wrong is presumably in your calculations during Euler's GCD. As you say the result should be that ed % phi = 1, by definition. Perhaps if you could post/mail what figures you get during the Euler GCD algorithm someone/I could check those for you. > Lately I've been experimenting with my own little version of RSA > that I've hacked up in perl. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Interesting you should say that! See sig below for my attempts at the smallest possible rsa encryption/decryption perl program, (ok I cheated using dc instead of bignum.pl, but its probably faster anyway). Check out http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa-perl.html for explanations of how it works etc. Adam -- echo squeamish ossifrage | rsa -e 10001 1967cb529 | rsa -d ac363601 1967cb529 ============================================================================== #!/usr/local/bin/perl -- # export-a-crypto-system sig, RSA in 5 lines of PERL: die"$0 -d|-e key mod out\n"if(($_,$k,$n)=@ARGV)!=3|!/^-[de]$/;$v=$w= ~ 1&1+length$n;/d/?$v-=2:$w-=2;$_=unpack('B*',pack('H*',1&length$k?"0$k":$k)) ;s/^0+//;s/0/d*ln%/g;s/1/d*ln%lM*ln%/g;while(read(STDIN,$m,$w/2)){$m=unpack ("H$w",$m)."SM$n";$e=`echo 16oOi\U$m\Esn1${_}p|dc`;print pack("H$v",'0'x($v +1-length$e).$e);} ============================================================================== email:aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/ pgp-key:556A4A67  1,, Summary-line: 24-Apr Stephen Peters #Re: Long time, no E. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05277; Mon, 24 Apr 95 20:05:00 EDT Received: from gatekeeper.us.oracle.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10747; Mon, 24 Apr 95 20:04:51 EDT Received: from dvlseq.us.oracle.com by gatekeeper.us.oracle.com with SMTP (8.6.7/37.7) id RAA20645; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:04:40 -0700 Received: by dvlseq.us.oracle.com (Oracle 1.12/37.7) id AA11415; Mon, 24 Apr 95 17:04:38 PDT Message-Id: <9504250004.AA11415@dvlseq.us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 17:04:38 PDT From: "Stephen Peters" To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Long time, no E. Cc: mary_linton_peters@sdgnet.com X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:UNX01.US.ORACLE.COM:opus@MIT.EDU's message of 23-Apr-95 22:11 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Boundary-11582476-0-0 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 17:04:38 PDT From: "Stephen Peters" To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Long time, no E. Cc: mary_linton_peters@sdgnet.com X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:UNX01.US.ORACLE.COM:opus@MIT.EDU's message of 23-Apr-95 22:11 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Boundary-11582476-0-0 --Boundary-11582476-0-0 Hi, Dave! ML and I are fine. I'm forwarding a copy of this to her at work so she can comment as well, lest I miss something. I'll also print out a copy of the Tech review for her, in case she's interested. Well, the major problems that I can think of off the top of my head include: 1) No wing space. Actually, of course, there is a great deal of space backstage, but it's incredibly difficult to make effective use of it, since the width just offstage is small, and you can't exactly make right-angle turns with large pieces of scenery. You're pretty much limited to small pieces that you can roll on from offstage. Of course, that's what you get anywhere else on campus as well. The nice thing about Mainstage is that you have the space backstage to store lots and lots of these little pieces. Just keep your crew and your cast (as well as your casters) quiet. 2) No depth to the stage. Again, Mainstage is an absolutely huge space, and has one of the deepest stages on campus. However, due to sound problems, it's practically impossible to use it. Place an actor in the far back of the stage, and he not only gets lost visually in the vast expanse, but he also becomes totally inaudible. The effective depth you want to use is about half the full depth of the stage. Of course, if you have large dance sequences (cf. Oklahoma!) you can use the entire thing to good advantage. However, this doesn't mean you can't use the entire stage for other purposes. For both My Fair Lady and Oklahoma, we kept the main set on stage at all times, rotating it as necessary for different settings. Also, you have the room on the stage to build big fixed multi-level sets (were you around when MTG did West Side Story lo those many years ago?), if you can afford it and there are no conferences around show time. Also, you can do large backdrop scenes (ala South Pacific) but because of the lack of fly space you are limited to one large backdrop scene. If you want to do a large backdrop or fixed set, you'll need to make sure that CAC doesn't want to use Kresge for a conference or something during the week. If they do, you need to limit your sets to about 9 feet high to get them to hide offstage through the rear doors. Note also, that you have the opportunity to set out small playing areas to the left and right of the orchestra pits. These are good for small scenes, and frankly have some of the best acoustics in the theater. 3) Sound. Mainstage sound sucks. Sucks sucks sucks. Have I mentioned that the sound sucks? The story goes that the building was built acoustically perfect, but has since settled so that the acoustic sweet spot is now 6 feet below the audience's feet. Lord knows if that is really true, but you can tell the difference. Best places to hear are now in the two rear corners, where the sound bounces around extremely nicely (but where the audience will not want to sit). Worst is where the audience will want to sit, about 8 or 9 rows back from the orchestra pit, dead center, since that's the point where the sound is directed 6 feet under the floor. Don't let the Tech reviewer sit there. The aisles are OK. This is also where you need to have your actors playing far forward on the stage, and they really need to learn to project. Projection isn't really a problem part of the time in Sala, and practically never in Little, but it's a killer on mainstage. When singing solos, the actors really need to project their voices out. Some have the most success projecting towards the rear corners of the theatre, or to the back of the center section, to make themselves heard. During rehearsals, make sure the vocal director "samples" the singers from various spots in the audience so that they can find what works best overall. If the actors go too far back, as I mentioned briefly earlier, the sound tends to get trapped in the lightworks. The orchestra can be heard fine from the pit. They do not need to compensate much for volume. Another quirk is that most sounds backstage can be heard as well as or better than the action onstage. This is much worse on Mainstage than anywhere else on campus, and it's imperative to keep cast and crew quiet as churchmice. Actors can always be stored downstairs if need be, but if they make noises in the stairwells the audience can still hear. 4) Lights. ML can probably comment better on this than I can, but I recall that the stage is extremely good for lighting orchestras, but extremely poor for stage productions, since there are no opportunities for side lighting, a dearth of good front lighting, and (ML please correct me if any of this is wrong) no one seems to have spot lights that can reach the stage. It's very key to have someone who has done lighting in Mainstage before either as lighting designer or at the very least a close consultant (is Bromberg still working with you guys? -- he should be able to provide good info on a lot of the technical issues). You'll also need to get booth access -- this will *not* be easy, unless CAC likes you or you can get a key to the booth from LSC (gee, know anyone on LSC?). They may have changed this since we left. When we last were doing shows on mainstage, CAC usually only offered to open the booth half an hour before showtime, and only on performance nights, and then only if you asked nicely waving a headless chicken. Side lighting can be fixed with light poles along the walls, in the audience seating. You can't erect the poles in the break in seating, because the light will never reach the stage. 5) Various production problems (probably not a factor for deciding whether or not to do a show there): Headsets are extremely important, since the only people who can see the entire stage (in the booth) are literally several minutes away from the stage, including an extensive jaunt through the actual theatre. The stage manager should probably be in the booth, but will need competent ASMs to run the show backstage. Note that wireless headsets get tons of interference from the pipework and the power grid SR, so the ASMs should stand pretty much *in* the downstage doorways to the stage to hear over a wireless headset. Another option is to hardwire the headphones in if you have enough time -- we almost did this for My Fair Lady. If you use APO to make tickets, they can be expensive, and you *may* want to avoid them if you're going to try to sell a fair portion of the theatre. There are other companies which create concert-style tickets, which (while not as pretty) are much cheaper. Be sure to reserve the dressing rooms and a rehearsal room for the cast, if at all possible. The rehearsal room serves well as a green room, since you can't have the cast lounging backstage. Plus, it's a good spot to do warmups. Make sure your director isn't trying to take 6.111 during the run. Think carefully about rehearsal spaces -- nothing is as big as mainstage, but there are some spots on campus where you can at least approximate the size. That's all I can think of right off -- talk to you later, and give my best to Ruth! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Stephen Peters Star Trek: Voyager. Oracle Corporation Its 75-year mission: To answer the Sun SBU Product Lead eternal question, "Are we there yet?" (415) 506-4934 [work] --Boundary-11582476-0-0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: 23 Apr 95 22:08:47 From:"David C. Jedlinsky" To: speters@us.oracle.com Subject: Long time, no E. Cc: opus@MIT.EDU Hi Steve. Been a while since I've talked with you. How are you and ML doing in the land of make-believe? The reason I thought of writing now was due to something we talked about last time I saw you on this coast. If you'll recall, I asked you and ML about your experiences with doing shows in Kresge mainstage. Well, MIT G&SP just finished doing Iolanthe, and the Tech review started a snowball rolling (you can read the review via the MIT G&SP homepage, http://www.mit.edu:8001/activities/gsp/home.html. Basically, the reviewer decided that our group was too large for La Sala, or any other performning space on campus, except for mainstage. Other people (faculty and students especially, but outsiders as well) have taken up the cry, and we are probably going to seriously discuss the possibility at our next Gencomm in a week. Obviously, it's feasible to do a show on mainstage, as the old G&S Society did it for many years, and MTG did it as you are (painfully?) aware. What I'd like to know is, what are the major problems that would have to be dealt with if we were to mount a production there? Most of the people I've talked to speak from nostalgia and rumor - I'd like to inject a little fact into the discussion. Thank you for any help you can provide. Strange things may be afoot at the Circle K! -Dave --Boundary-11582476-0-0--  1, answered,, Summary-line: 27-Apr Samuel Goldberger #Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07535; Thu, 27 Apr 95 16:37:17 EDT Received: from orb.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03285; Thu, 27 Apr 95 16:37:13 EDT Received: by orb.com (NX5.67e/NeXT-2.0) id AA02018; Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:35:28 -0700 Message-Id: <9504272035.AA02018@orb.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Samuel Goldberger Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:35:26 -0700 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's References: <9504112046.AA10227@al-burro.MIT.EDU> *** EOOH *** Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) From: Samuel Goldberger Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:35:26 -0700 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's References: <9504112046.AA10227@al-burro.MIT.EDU> Dave: Sorry for the delay. I made a mistake in starting to rewrite the EPB documentation from scratch. I'd propose to send the EPB without docs, with the understanding that you'll call me and I"ll talk you through the installation. Does this make sense? SAm --- Samuel M. Goldberger smg@orb.com Spherical Solutions 47 Myrtle Avenue Mill Valley, CA 94941 415-383-2919--voice 415-381-9556--fax Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 11 Apr 95 16:46:04 -0400 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Samuel Goldberger In-Reply-To: Samuel Goldberger's message of Tue, 14 Mar 95 15:50:15 -0800 Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's Hi Sam. I sent you a check for a NeXT '030 board and soundbox about a month ago. I have not yet received the shipment; could it have been lost by UPS (or whoever you used to ship)? Is there a tracking number? Thanks for your help. -Dave Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1,, Summary-line: 27-Apr David C. Jedlinsky #Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08663; Thu, 27 Apr 95 17:58:55 EDT Received: from MILO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15945; Thu, 27 Apr 95 17:58:52 EDT Received: by milo.mit.edu (NX5.67d/4.7) id AA01845; Thu, 27 Apr 95 17:54:05 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 17:54:05 -0400 Message-Id: <9504272154.AA01845@milo.mit.edu> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Samuel Goldberger In-Reply-To: Samuel Goldberger's message of Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:35:26 -0700 Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 17:54:05 -0400 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Samuel Goldberger In-Reply-To: Samuel Goldberger's message of Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:35:26 -0700 Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's Sam, >Sorry for the delay. I made a mistake in starting to rewrite the EPB >documentation from scratch. I'd propose to send the EPB without docs, >with the understanding that you'll call me and I"ll talk you through >the installation. Does this make sense? Sending the EPB without docs is fine; does the installation involve cutting traces, and such, or is that a rumor? I'd like to get a copy of the docs once you finish them, in any case. But we can certainly try a verbal walkthrough. -Dave Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1,, Summary-line: 4-May Samuel Goldberger #Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18227; Thu, 4 May 95 20:13:27 EDT Received: from orb.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00486; Thu, 4 May 95 20:13:22 EDT Received: by orb.com (NX5.67e/NeXT-2.0) id AA01549; Thu, 4 May 95 17:15:17 -0700 Message-Id: <9505050015.AA01549@orb.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Samuel Goldberger Date: Thu, 4 May 95 17:15:15 -0700 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's References: <9504272154.AA01845@milo.mit.edu> *** EOOH *** Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) From: Samuel Goldberger Date: Thu, 4 May 95 17:15:15 -0700 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's References: <9504272154.AA01845@milo.mit.edu> Your board, software and soundbox shipped out yesterday, and should arrivve within three days' time. Please contact me upon receipt for installation instructions. Sam --- Samuel M. Goldberger smg@orb.com Spherical Solutions 47 Myrtle Avenue Mill Valley, CA 94941 415-383-2919--voice 415-381-9556--fax Begin forwarded message: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 17:54:05 -0400 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Samuel Goldberger In-Reply-To: Samuel Goldberger's message of Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:35:26 -0700 Subject: Re: NeXT '030 motherboards and EPB's Sam, >Sorry for the delay. I made a mistake in starting to rewrite the EPB >documentation from scratch. I'd propose to send the EPB without docs, >with the understanding that you'll call me and I"ll talk you through >the installation. Does this make sense? Sending the EPB without docs is fine; does the installation involve cutting traces, and such, or is that a rumor? I'd like to get a copy of the docs once you finish them, in any case. But we can certainly try a verbal walkthrough. -Dave Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1,, Summary-line: 20-May CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.ED #Re: Walker Videos of G & S Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00729; Sat, 20 May 95 14:30:35 EDT Received: from hcacad.holycross.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11173; Sat, 20 May 95 14:30:33 EDT Received: from HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU by HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU (PMDF V4.3-9 #8502) id <01HQQ8PNC2I8B61O1Y@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU>; Sat, 20 May 1995 14:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 14:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU Subject: Re: Walker Videos of G & S To: opus@MIT.EDU Message-Id: <01HQQ8PND62AB61O1Y@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU> X-Vms-To: IN%"opus@MIT.EDU" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 14:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU Subject: Re: Walker Videos of G & S To: opus@MIT.EDU X-Vms-To: IN%"opus@MIT.EDU" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dave: I enjoyed our evening last night very much. When I got home I was able to dig out the two old PAL videos I spoke to you about. The first is a *Beta* version of The Mikado, published by BHE (British Home Entertainment PLC). I see no catalogue # or date, but it's the D'Oyly Carte with John Reed, City of Birmingham S.O. conducted by Isadore Godfrey. It's a video of a technicolor film, but unfortunately - and I don't think there's anything you can do about it - when the film was transfered onto video originally, it was transfered at too fast a speed - the music is universally 1/2 sharp and the male chorus starts to sound a little like munchkins. My copy, which was dubbed from the Beta about 10 years ago, looks Ok until you get out of the titles and the color is somewhat washed out. Question - is there anything you can do to correct the speed problem so the film runs at proper pitch? I'm listening to a rather fast-vibato, strange sounding Nanki-Poo who sounds as if he'd be decent at the correct pitch. Anyway, you're welcome to the video. If you can improve the speed and color, great, but regardless you're welcome to the original. The other is the Pinafore from the last days of the old D'Oyly Carte, as issued in 1986 (there may have been an earlier version on the market) by "Channel 5", catalogue # CFV 00902. This is on VHS PAL. My copy of it seems OK. I think I will take you up on your offer to try making a better version of the ones I gave you last night. As a test, could you see what you can do on the Cox and Box-Trial tape? Then, if it's significantly better than the ones I just made we can discuss the others. Thanks! +--------------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |College of the Holy Cross | are paramount." |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |Internet: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu | |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 1-Jun CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #MIKADO film - caution Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29327; Thu, 1 Jun 95 14:41:20 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09280; Thu, 1 Jun 95 14:41:14 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA13567; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 14:40:19 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 14:40:19 -0400 Message-Id: <01HR71334AGIB628MR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: MIKADO film - caution X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 14:40:19 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: MIKADO film - caution X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Anyone contemplating a purchase of the re-released Mikado film, made in 1966 by D'Oyly Carte, conducted by Isadore Godfrey with Donald Adams, John Reed, et. al. - BE WARNED. The film as transcribed runs almost 1/2 step sharp and thus distorts the musical performance - it makes certain numbers run too fast - and certainly the tempi are all faster than intended (Godfrey at the end of his career tended to slow tempi so this may or may not be objectionable to some people). But the worst distortion is in the voices - they tend toward munchkin quality. Not terminally, but in that direction unmistakably. This is exactly the problem which obtained in an earlier video release (in England) by British Home Entertainment. I ordered the new one on VAI hoping this problem would have been solved, but judging from the condition of the film (not a mint copy with some scratch on the sound track) VAI has used the same source, and perhaps the same video master. It's maddening, because the performance preserves a decent performance by D'Oyly Carte using some of their best principals at a time when their performance standards were not only high but infused with a tradition now lost. For these reasons it's worth having, but as always, let the buyer beware. +--------------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |College of the Holy Cross | are paramount." |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |Internet: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu | |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 21-Jul Howard Golk #Re: Have you had this client-type... Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29809; Sun, 23 Jul 95 15:36:01 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14107; Sun, 23 Jul 95 15:35:58 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu with SMTP id <67637(2)>; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 14:00:17 -0500 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA27871 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:44:33 -0500 Received: from ix2.ix.netcom.com (ix2.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.3]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA27825 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:44:28 -0500 Received: from by ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id VAA15357; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:42:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199507220442.VAA15357@ix2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 23:42:58 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: hgolk@ix.netcom.com (Howard Golk) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Have you had this client-type... X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** for ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:44:28 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 23:42:58 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: hgolk@ix.netcom.com (Howard Golk) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Have you had this client-type... X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN We all have. I've posted the following sign in the lobby: DISSATISFACTION SUBJECT TO APPROVAL - No refunds for lousy taste. - No 100% refunds for something 3% wrong. - If refund is given, the work will be burned. - $10 per min. charge for listening to you bitch about your problems. - If you paid partly with promises of future work, it is a valid debt and not subject to your fleeting whims. - No refunds for not knowing when to read your mind. - "Soon" does not mean when hell feezes over. -- --------------------------------------------------- | WARNING: TOXIC E-MAIL! In case of eye contact, | | emerse head in water for at least 15 minutes. | ---------------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 29-Sep opus@MIT.EDU #Foamcoat Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15066; Fri, 29 Sep 95 15:01:25 EDT Received: from CHARON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20068; Fri, 29 Sep 95 15:00:58 EDT Received: (from opus@localhost) by charon.MIT.EDU (8.6.12/2.3JIK) id PAA02618 for opus; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:01:27 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:01:27 -0400 From: opus@MIT.EDU Message-Id: <199509291901.PAA02618@charon.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Foamcoat *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:01:27 -0400 From: opus@MIT.EDU To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Foamcoat Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: roscojosh@aol.com (Roscojosh) Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft Subject: Re: "Rock" look Styrofoam painting for outdoors Date: 28 Sep 1995 13:37:49 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 31 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <44emhd$6jg@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <44bto3$9pk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: roscojosh@aol.com (Roscojosh) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I think that I can offer a really good solution. Rosco has recently (18 months ago) developed a product called Rosco Foamcoat. Foamcoat is a waterbased, non-toxic coating that is designed to be applied over styrofoam and will dry to a very hard, durable finish. Apply between 1/16" - 1/4" depending on how durable the coating needs to be. When dry, the coating can be sanding smooth or carved with additional detailing. It is completely water-proof (we've created small pools of water on stage sets and had no problems) and fire retardent. It has a consistency between plaster of paris and joint compound so it can be brushed , sprayed (with a texture/hopper-type gun), trowled or rolled on. And since it a water based product it is very forgiving about paint. You can paint over Foamcoat with no priming, or you can mix water-based paint right into the wet Foamcoat. Roscopaints are fine for exterior use and durability. In addition to styrofoam, Foamcoat is an excellent general texturing agent. I've used it on masonite sheets to create custom stone floors, used it on lumber and then combed a rough bark pattern into it, laid down thin coats to make extremely realistic slate and even used it watered down very thin to saturate industrial felt for fabric sculpting. You can get it through any Rosco dealer or you can call Rosco for more information at 800-767-2669. Hope this helps. Joshua Alemany Product Manger, Rosco Labs joshua@rosco.com, roscojosh@aol.com  1,, Summary-line: 20-Oct Larry Byler #Re: Shoot the Cameraman Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19956; Fri, 20 Oct 95 18:03:12 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10639; Fri, 20 Oct 95 18:02:58 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA16729; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 17:58:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 17:58:04 -0400 Message-Id: <11851.814226041@hpmpea2> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Larry Byler To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Shoot the Cameraman X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 17:58:04 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Larry Byler To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Shoot the Cameraman X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Marc Kenig (marc@interserve.com) writes: >As a general rule, the groups I perform with that produce videos do so for >at least two dress rehearsals. That way the videographer (hi, Larry!) has Hi Marc (and the rest of you). >a better chance of becoming familiar with the show AND the director gets to >see and review "rushes" to help with last minute notes. We also record two >actual performances so people can chose whichever they think the better. I wasn't going to get caught up in this, but... I'm definitely an amateur videographer, but I've done it for 11 years (GSSSJ) and 7 years (Savoyards), so I like to think I've gotten pretty good at it. The groups seem to think so; they haven't replaced me yet :-). I work with one camera, for the reasons Marc cited in his posting, although others have posted here with their two (or more) camera experiences. More power to 'em. I also use microphones at the edge of the stage. My first shoot back in '84 used the camera mic, and I vowed never to do that again :-). For what it's worth, the thing that helps me most is knowing pretty much every line of the show going in. That allows me to concentrate on blocking, entrances, exits, framing, transitions, etc. But that's fine-tuning. You can do a lot just knowing who is going to sing or speak next. I'm currently taping a local Madama Butterfly where I *don't* know the show. Real eye- opener, but by closing night I might get something reasonable :-). >In defense of the Buxton videos, the cameraman has scant opportunity to >become familiar with the blocking for any given perfomance with the 1-day >of rehearsals alotted to each company. Given that the tape is to be >converted to different international formats, with inevitable loss of >definition, holding close, rather than wide shots is not a bad thing. The >Ida video I received would not show facial and other details at all if the >shots were wide. My style is to include all manners of shots -- wide, close, and in-between. The idea is to capture the development of the show. When the action is with the leads, stay with them even if the chorus is singing and the leads are not. And so on. If you do this, you get details at least part of the time, and full ensemble part of the time. >[Side note to Ian Smith: Perhaps better video equipment would result in a >higher quality master that could survive format conoversion somewhat >better. Also, a PAL copy that was converted here in the U.S. to NTSC >resulted in much better synch, resolution and somewhat better color than >the NTSC tapes you made in the U.K. It does not seem that your conversion >facility has NTSC "HG/SVHS" capability...] I was at the '95 festival. After seeing copies of the '94 tapes, and being naturally curious, I wandered down to check out the setup and chat with the young fellow behind the camera. In '94, they did use a microphone at the camera (as Douglas Whaley alludes to), but in '95 they mounted microphones at the lower lip of the balcony. It didn't seem to make much difference in the Ruddigore (the only tape I've received so far). But the gear is first rate -- professional broadcast camera and a Panasonic AG-7400 portable deck. The kicker is -- they master to standard VHS, not U-matic nor Super-VHS (the 7400 supports S-VHS; I've used it). Figure one generation for post-production (nice titles this year), then another generation for an NTSC master, and we are probably receiving at least fourth-generation copies. No wonder the detail and color seem less than ideal. One major difference -- in '94 the sound was linear audio; this year the Ruddigore (at least) is VHS Hi-Fi. Given the sound quality going in, that may not be much, but it at least avoids noise and flutter due to the limita- tions of linear audio. If the Festival is going to command top dollar for videos (and $30 buys a lot of video these days), I would recommend at least three improvements, possibly four. The first is Douglas Whaley's suggestion: dw> 1. In the best of all possible worlds, the camera operator would know the dw>show well enough to tape the relevant parts; this is what is expected in dw>professional camera work and with some effort could be done for all our G&S dw>videos. I'm available, for a small offset to expenses :-). 2. Master to high-resolution tape, such as S-VHS, and generate all intermediate masters the same way. 3. Be aware of dark scenes (such as Act II of Pinafore or Ruddigore) and adjust the camera gain accordingly. 4. (the "possibly"): Improve the sound. This, IMHO is roughest because my method (footlight microphones) does intrude on the visual experience, while overhead microphones are far more costly, and can reflect light and cast shadows. Sorry this got so long. I'd be glad to continue this privately with anyone who's interested. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -Larry Byler- e-mail: lbyler@cup.hp.com Lyric Theatre: Videographer (the performing company of the Rehearsal pianist (1 of 3) Gilbert & Sullivan Society of San Jose) Stanford Savoyards: Videographer Rehearsal pianist (1 of 4)  1,, Summary-line: 20-Oct David C. Jedlinsky #Videotaping shows Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21134; Fri, 20 Oct 95 19:59:44 EDT Received: from CHARON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02807; Fri, 20 Oct 95 19:58:51 EDT Received: (from opus@localhost) by charon.MIT.EDU (8.6.12/2.3JIK) id TAA28732; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 19:56:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 19:56:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199510202356.TAA28732@charon.MIT.EDU> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: lbyler@cup.hp.com Subject: Videotaping shows *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 19:56:52 -0400 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: lbyler@cup.hp.com Subject: Videotaping shows Hi Larry. This is off the topic of savoynet, so I'm only sending it to you. As a way of introduction: I started out doing tapes for the MIT G&S Players (I still do them), and have expanded to quite a few groups in the area; I gave up on the amateur status when I found I had spent more than $10,000 on my "hobby". I currently record on Hi8, mastering to SuperBeta, and am in the process of building a non-linear editing system. All of the points you made are very good; I have a few additional suggestions. >My first shoot back in '84 used the camera mic, and I vowed never to >do that again :-). Gee, I had an identical experience. :-) >You can do a lot just knowing who is going to sing or speak next. >I'm currently taping a local Madama Butterfly where I *don't* know the >show. Real eye- opener, but by closing night I might get something >reasonable :-). I usually attempt to have an assistant with me. Our usual method is to attend a rehearsal, and take copious notes on entrances, etc. These are transferred to 3x5 notecards, with one corner punched out. I put a keyring through it to keep them together, then it is fairly easy to flip the notes as the show goes. I usually draw a diagram of the set, and number the various positions. It's easier to read "entrance at 1, followed by 4", than "downstage left entrance, followed by upstage right (furthest one)". The first attempt at doing an unknown show is mostly creditable, and sometimes has become the keeper. If you are taping more than one performance, try recording from a different position every night. Then, when you end up editing between the performances, you get a new camera angle "for free". Watch out, however, that you do not cross the centerline, or the point of view will confuse the audience. Use a soft-contrast filter. This will help even out the differences between a spotlighted principal, and the background (chorus, or otherwise). This also allows you to reduce the number of iris changes between light and dark scenes, if that is an issue. >4. (the "possibly"): Improve the sound. This, IMHO is roughest because my > method (footlight microphones) does intrude on the visual experience, > while overhead microphones are far more costly, and can reflect light and > cast shadows. I use Radio Shack PZM microphones, which I have modified to send a balanced signal (much lower noise and better frequency response). These lie flat in between the footlights, and are omnidirectional. They do not have a "proximity effect", and they are never seen by the audience. Just make sure the cast knows not to step on them. It's the best compromise I've found between getting a good audio signal, and intruding upon the aesthetics of the stage. -Dave Jedlinsky IPNH (Image Productions of New Hampshire) opus@mit.edu  1,, Summary-line: 23-Oct Larry Byler #Re: Videotaping shows Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11246; Mon, 23 Oct 95 13:29:27 EDT Received: from hp.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17647; Mon, 23 Oct 95 13:28:20 EDT Received: from hpmpea2.cup.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA186279332; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:28:52 -0700 Received: from hpmpec3c.cup.hp.com by hpmpea2.cup.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.20+cup+OMrelay) id AA07251; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:28:51 -0700 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Videotaping shows In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Oct 95 19:56:52 EDT." <199510202356.TAA28732@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 10:28:51 -0700 Message-Id: <16122.814469331@hpmpea2> From: Larry Byler *** EOOH *** To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Videotaping shows In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Oct 95 19:56:52 EDT." <199510202356.TAA28732@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 10:28:51 -0700 From: Larry Byler >Hi Larry. Hi David, >I gave up on the amateur status when I found I had spent >more than $10,000 on my "hobby". You've got me beat. I'm probably in for only about 3K. But I didn't have to buy the camcorder, GSSSJ bought that. All the sound gear and the VCRs are mine. >I currently record on Hi8, mastering >to SuperBeta, and am in the process of building a non-linear editing >system. The GSSSJ camcorder is a Ricoh 808-H Hi-8, but I have been sorely disappointed with several aspects of its recording quality -- sound dropout, picture tears at the bottom, inability to play tapes recorded on other camcorders, etc. So I use it only as a camera, routing its S-video output to my S-VHS deck (currently Panasonic AG-1970) for mastering. The other reason for not using the camcorder directly is the inability to shut off the sound compression and/or adjust the recording level. I mix five (or more) sound channels down to two, and feed them to the AG-1970. I have not gotten into editing yet, except on-the-fly editing. I've gotten pretty good at cut-ins, even with the startup delays on the copy deck. Another fellow and I tried some title mixing with his Panasonic AVE-7 mixer (or something like that), but were very disappointed with the color shift it introduced. So we haven't tried that again. >All of the points you made are very good; I have a few additional >suggestions. [...] >I usually attempt to have an assistant with me. Our usual method is >to attend a rehearsal, and take copious notes on entrances, etc. That would probably be a good method. A possibly better one would be to record your own notes on a handheld cassette recorder, then transcribe them afterward. This has the added benefit of recording the ambient sound of the moment as well, for a mind-jogger, or to compare with the score, if that's handy. [...] >The first attempt at doing >an unknown show is mostly creditable, and sometimes has become the >keeper. Indeed. That's why I attend all (usually there are two) dress rehearsals. I practice framing, following, light levels, etc. On the off-day between final dress and opening night, I watch and study those work tapes for entrances and details. The result is usually reasonable opening night coverage, but it often gets better during the run. For Butterfly, I finally got coverage that *I* liked during the final show yesterday, but I suspect everyone else will be happy with the earlier efforts. >If you are taping more than one performance, try recording from a >different position every night. Then, when you end up editing between >the performances, you get a new camera angle "for free". Watch out, >however, that you do not cross the centerline, or the point of view >will confuse the audience. Good tip, but not an option in my setups. First, I record in several different houses, each with its own set of problems. In some, I can leave my gear in for the run because I'm in the light booth. In others, I'm in the house. In all of them, space is limited, and I usually get whatever space can be spared. Second, since I don't have fancy editing facilities, I generally don't edit between performances. If there's a real screwup (cast member goes up on hir lines, or *I* screw up), I may try to cut in alternate scenes, but it *is* on-the-fly per copy. When there's really a problem, I either pay the price of an intermediate master, or patch the grandmaster (after carefully practicing on scratch copies), if the timings are right. >Use a soft-contrast filter. This will help even out the differences >between a spotlighted principal, and the background (chorus, or >otherwise). This also allows you to reduce the number of iris changes >between light and dark scenes, if that is an issue. This exceeds my knowledge of photography; I would not be sure how (or when) to use such a beast. Also, one would have to leave it on for entire acts, since it obviously cannot be changed on the fly. Looked at from a different standpoint, one may *want* to see the difference in light level. It was important to the lighting designer, and my job (as I see it) is to capture the stage performance. Within reason, of course. If the entire stage is dark, I have to twiddle the iris. I try to do that where it is least noticeable. Side point: Most shows I tape do not use follow spots (by choice of the lighting designers), so that's not the problem it might be. [For sound pickup] >I use Radio Shack PZM microphones, which I have modified to send a >balanced signal (much lower noise and better frequency response). I seem to recall trying this at one time and being disappointed. Maybe it's time to try again. Did you actually modify the microphones to produce balanced output, or is there an inline transformer available for that purpose? On the other hand, no one has yet complained to me about my present micro- phones, so maybe there's no need to fix what isn't broken. Thanks for writing, and for the useful insight. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -Larry Byler- e-mail: lbyler@cup.hp.com Lyric Theatre: Videographer (the performing company of the Rehearsal pianist (1 of 3) Gilbert & Sullivan Society of San Jose) Stanford Savoyards: Videographer Rehearsal pianist (1 of 4)  1,, Summary-line: 20-Nov CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Re: Mutual Birthdays Results Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14437; Mon, 20 Nov 95 12:11:14 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14138; Mon, 20 Nov 95 12:09:17 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA23165; Mon, 20 Nov 1995 12:09:22 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 12:09:22 -0500 Message-Id: <01HXV64U75K2BP3UOY@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Mutual Birthdays Results X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 12:09:22 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Mutual Birthdays Results X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Seem to be an awful lot of 13's in this list. Mine's June 12. +--------------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |College of the Holy Cross | are paramount." |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |Internet: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu | |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 20-Nov cupid@MIT.EDU #RE: Mutual Birthdays Results Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16103; Mon, 20 Nov 95 14:00:59 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29590; Mon, 20 Nov 95 13:59:01 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA24391; Mon, 20 Nov 1995 13:59:28 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 13:59:28 -0500 Message-Id: <9511201858.AA15126@kangaroo.mit.edu> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: cupid@MIT.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Mutual Birthdays Results X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 13:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: cupid@MIT.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Mutual Birthdays Results X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Ok. I don't really understand why or how this birthday thing got started or it's relevance to G&S but for what it's worth - my birthday is Nov. 25. (the timing of this is not meant to be a shamless plug) Also since Philip is doing this I might as well lend a hand to his endeavor...whatever it may be. -Randi (who would have been in the Ridgewood G&S players is she knew about them before she left NJ) cupid@mit.edu  1,, Summary-line: 30-Nov cupid@MIT.EDU #[speeler@latin.pvt.k12.il.us: comment -- nice homepage guys] Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23577; Thu, 30 Nov 95 01:08:31 EST Received: from KANGAROO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04796; Thu, 30 Nov 95 01:06:15 EST From: cupid@MIT.EDU Received: by kangaroo.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/03Mar95-1146AM) id AA18043; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 01:07:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 01:07:19 -0500 Message-Id: <9511300607.AA18043@kangaroo.mit.edu> To: opus@MIT.EDU, walthowe@delphi.com Subject: [speeler@latin.pvt.k12.il.us: comment -- nice homepage guys] *** EOOH *** From: cupid@MIT.EDU Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 01:07:19 -0500 To: opus@MIT.EDU, walthowe@delphi.com Subject: [speeler@latin.pvt.k12.il.us: comment -- nice homepage guys] Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 17:54:13 -0500 From: speeler@latin.pvt.k12.il.us Subject: comment -- nice homepage guys To: savoyards-request@MIT.EDU X-Webclient: Mozilla/1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-Referer: http://www.mit.edu:8001/activities/gsp/request.html Dear MITGSP: What a great home page. I conducted the 94 production of "Mikado." and would like to say hello to anyone who remembers me I am presently the choral director at the Latin School of Chicago (a prep school). I miss Boston terribly and hope the curr ent show is going well. Whomever recieves this message, please pass it on to the cast and executive committee. Take care. St eve Peeler ----- submitted by 'speeler@latin.pvt.k12.il.us' on 206.68.33.92 (could not reverse-resolve name) Email sent via the WWW comment gateway at www.mit.edu:8001. Warning: the sender's name and address may be forged.  1, answered,, Summary-line: 12-Jan Larry Byler #Re: Utopia PDF score Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05630; Fri, 12 Jan 96 20:07:06 EST Received: from hp.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02933; Fri, 12 Jan 96 20:06:59 EST Received: from hpmpea2.cup.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA008515218; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:06:58 -0800 Received: from hpmpec3c.cup.hp.com by hpmpea2.cup.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.20+cup+OMrelay) id AA21502; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:06:57 -0800 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Utopia PDF score In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Jan 96 19:41:16 EST." <199601130041.TAA10201@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 17:06:57 -0800 Message-Id: <17949.821495217@hpmpea2> From: Larry Byler *** EOOH *** To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Utopia PDF score In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Jan 96 19:41:16 EST." <199601130041.TAA10201@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 17:06:57 -0800 From: Larry Byler >Hi Larry. Hi Dave, >I downloaded your Utopia Act I score from the G&S Archive. It is a >beautiful piece of work, Thank you. At my age, it's hard to read the microscopic size notation of the Chappell edition. Besides, I corrected several errors and added some missing stuff, like the Act I No. 8 playout. >and I'm attempting to finish it by writing >Act II. Before I get too far (I've only done #12 so far), I'd like to >ask you a few questions. > >First, and most important; have you already done Act II? :-) It's finally in progress again. I've done the first two numbers, and am currently working on _Society has quite forsaken all her wicked courses_. _Eagle High_ will be the real challenge -- all those staves! But our group (Lyric Theatre, nee GSSSJ) is proposing to do Utopia this fall, so I'll want to be done well before then so they can use it. >Second: What did you use as your source material? I have the Kalmus >and Chappell scores, and they are copies of identical material, which >does not match precisely the PDF files on the archive. I used the Chappell edition, but you're right, they don't match in many respects. I've tried to correct all the errors I know of, plus add the violin obbligato in _Although of native maids the cream_, and the afore- mentioned playout to No. 8. I've also corrected all repeat bars and re- hearsal letters so that they match the orchestral parts. There are few things more irritating to a music director than mismatched parts. >Do you have any tips I might use to enter these things a little faster >- it currently takes me about two hours to completely enter and polish >one page. You must be using a different program. I use Finale, for which I enter all the notes using that program's Scroll mode. Once that's done, I enter Page mode and pretty it up, including all the annotation. Depend- ing on the complexity of a piece, it can take me about two hours a page, same as you. I expect the instrumental numbers of Act II to go really fast -- most of the difficulty comes in making sure the lyrics don't interfere with adjacent words or notes. As soon as I'm done, I'll send Jim Farron the files -- he knows more about uploading them to the archive than I do. Regards, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -Larry Byler- e-mail: lbyler@cup.hp.com Lyric Theatre: Videographer (the performing company of the Rehearsal pianist (1 of 3) Gilbert & Sullivan Society of San Jose) Stanford Savoyards: Videographer Rehearsal pianist (1 of 4)  1, answered,, Summary-line: 15-Jan Larry Byler #Re: Utopia PDF score Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03827; Mon, 15 Jan 96 16:37:36 EST Received: from hp.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02505; Mon, 15 Jan 96 16:37:26 EST Received: from hpmpea2.cup.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA183651848; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:37:29 -0800 Received: from hpmpec3c.cup.hp.com by hpmpea2.cup.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.20+cup+OMrelay) id AA24053; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:37:28 -0800 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Utopia PDF score In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Jan 96 16:00:03 EST." <199601152100.QAA17342@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 13:37:28 -0800 Message-Id: <3064.821741848@hpmpea2> From: Larry Byler *** EOOH *** To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Utopia PDF score In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Jan 96 16:00:03 EST." <199601152100.QAA17342@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 13:37:28 -0800 From: Larry Byler >The MIT G&S Players are doing Utopia in April, so I'm working under a >deadline to do Act II (I have enthusiasm, which makes up for common >sense). One of the big reasons for my project was the difficulty in reading the microscopic notes of the Chappell version, complete with dropouts and faded staff lines. We *were* able to bring up a production with that version in 1988, but I intended my effort for future productions. If you're gearing up for an April production, I might suggest you make do with the Chappell rather than rush yourself into a frenzy. >I'd love to contribute what I've got to your effort, but I'm >not sure how useful it will be. I'm using a program called Calliope >on a NeXT computer; it sets music pretty nicely, and has some >accelerators to make setting verse easy (i.e. "Eagle High" is actually >easier to do than most of the other stuff I've tried!). I wasn't clear in my earlier posting -- _Eagle High_ is only difficult because it has so many staves, it may be hard to fit them all on one page without shrinking them to the same size as the Chappell version. It's not inherently difficult music. Finale also has some specialized lyric-related tools (such as breaking beams according to syllables, treating both hyphens and blanks as syllable delimiters, allowing for multiple verses one under the other, and so on. >Unfortunately, it doesn't read or write Finale ENIGMA files, and it >can only output PostScript, Scorefile (NeXT-specific, as far as I can >tell) or MIDI. Yeah, for all that Coda touts ENIGMA as being an interchange format, I've yet to find another program that uses it. It also outputs PostScript and MIDI. The PostScript is what I sent Jim Farron for archiving. >Maybe you can read the MIDI files into Finale, and clean it up from >there. If this would be useful to you, I'll gladly send you what I >end up with after we're into rehearsal. Thanks, but MIDI is also not one of Finale's interchange formats (output only). In fact I don't think it's *anyone's* interchange format unless you want to do bit- and channel-twiddling in a MIDI editor. I know of nothing that allows you to put MIDI in one end and get notated score out the other. >-Dave Jedlinsky >"We'll gloriously succeed, or go down in flames." (Uh, not quite.) No, but nicely put, still the same. Good luck. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -Larry Byler- e-mail: lbyler@cup.hp.com Lyric Theatre: Videographer (the performing company of the Rehearsal pianist (1 of 3) Gilbert & Sullivan Society of San Jose) Stanford Savoyards: Videographer Rehearsal pianist (1 of 4)  1,, Summary-line: 3-Feb David C. Jedlinsky #Music typesetting Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23964; Sat, 3 Feb 96 10:11:52 EST Received: from CHARON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14541; Sat, 3 Feb 96 10:11:33 EST Received: (from opus@localhost) by charon.MIT.EDU (8.6.12/2.3JIK) id KAA26166; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:11:58 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:11:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031511.KAA26166@charon.MIT.EDU> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: David_Grunberg@ademco.com Subject: Music typesetting *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:11:58 -0500 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: David_Grunberg@ademco.com Subject: Music typesetting Hi David. After our discussion last night, I looked up the section on vocal dynamic markings in my notation manual, "Music Notation:A Manual of Modern Practice", by Gardner Read. On page 296, it states: "It is customary to put dynamic marks, including "hairpins" and terms for crescendo or decrescendo, above each vocal staff rather than below, to avoid conflict with the words placed beneath the staff." I'd be curious to learn about other practices, as I'm only just doing my first work as a copyist (amateur, at this point, I guess), and haven't set my style in stone, yet. So far, I've been using Read's book as a bible, more or less. -Dave Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1, answered,, Summary-line: 5-Feb David_Grunberg@ademco.com #music notation Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22373; Mon, 5 Feb 96 17:48:04 EST Received: from mail1.new-york.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28547; Mon, 5 Feb 96 17:47:18 EST Received: from smtpgate.ademco.com by mail1.new-york.net (PMDF V4.3-10 #5880) id <01I0V2LK3IMO00GMGK@mail1.new-york.net>; Mon, 05 Feb 1996 17:47:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by smtpgate.ademco.com (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA823571324; Mon, 05 Feb 96 17:52:01 EST Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 17:52:01 -0500 (EST) From: David_Grunberg@ademco.com Subject: music notation To: opus@MIT.EDU Message-Id: <9601058235.AA823571324@smtpgate.ademco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 14 Text *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 17:52:01 -0500 (EST) From: David_Grunberg@ademco.com Subject: music notation To: opus@MIT.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 14 Text David, I have no choice but to believe you on the placement of dynamics in vocal staves, since I don't have a book on notation; I was only speaking from my years of experience playing orchestral parts. Anyway, if you'd like to create a full orchestral score from the parts, I wouldn't mind helping out. Since you've done the vocal lines, that's a good chunk of the work, assuming your software will let you add staves at will. I have a score to an orchestral piece with full chorus which is reduced to 8 1/2x11 and in my opinion is very readable. It has up to 23 staves per system. The standard G+S orchestra (2-1-2-1--2-2-2-0--1--strings) would take up 13 or 14 staves at most. I also have a good book on orchestration by Sam Adler. Good luck with the project! -Dave  1,, Summary-line: 5-Feb David C. Jedlinsky #Re: music notation Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25849; Mon, 5 Feb 96 18:09:33 EST Received: from CHARON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04133; Mon, 5 Feb 96 18:09:12 EST Received: (from opus@localhost) by charon.MIT.EDU (8.6.12/2.3JIK) id SAA01738; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 18:09:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 18:09:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199602052309.SAA01738@charon.MIT.EDU> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: David_Grunberg@ademco.com In-Reply-To: David_Grunberg@ademco.com's message of Mon, 05 Feb 1996 17:52:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: music notation *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 18:09:26 -0500 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: David_Grunberg@ademco.com In-Reply-To: David_Grunberg@ademco.com's message of Mon, 05 Feb 1996 17:52:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: music notation I'm interested in doing a full orchestral score, but I don't know how feasible that will be. I certainly must finish the vocal score first, since rehearsals start next week, and I'm leaving for Florida on Wednesday. After that, I don't know if I can get the individual parts for any length of time, due to rehearsals. Maybe if Harvard is willing to lend them to me after the show, one at a time, I could build up a score an instrument at a time. Another possibility would be to try doing this during the rehearsal period, especially before the orchestra has been organized. Adding individual staves is no problem; there is no limit to the number I can have per system (I love flexibility). If this does become a real possibility, I won't hesitate to take you up on your offer to help (I'm not a complete masochist!). One thing I've found useful, besides comments from real musicians, is to have many different publisher's scores as a reference in resolving ambiguous settings. I don't however, own any conductor's scores, so I would need to acquire some in order to do Utopia well. What's really neat is that if I finish the conductor's score, it is not terribly difficult to remove staves, and use the result as a start to build individual parts. Obviously, they would need to be tweeked after reduction for things like bar rests, and who knows what else (my musical inexperience is showing, I'll bet), but having the notes already on the computer is the majority of the battle, I should think. -Dave Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1, answered,, Summary-line: 6-Feb David_Grunberg@ademco.com #Re[2]: music notation Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18704; Tue, 6 Feb 96 10:45:32 EST Received: from mail1.new-york.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14498; Tue, 6 Feb 96 10:45:07 EST Received: from smtpgate.ademco.com by mail1.new-york.net (PMDF V4.3-10 #5880) id <01I0W25CXS2O00GSA8@mail1.new-york.net>; Tue, 06 Feb 1996 10:44:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by smtpgate.ademco.com (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA823632404; Tue, 06 Feb 96 10:49:22 EST Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 10:49:22 -0500 (EST) From: David_Grunberg@ademco.com Subject: Re[2]: music notation To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Message-Id: <9601068236.AA823632404@smtpgate.ademco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 9 Text *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 10:49:22 -0500 (EST) From: David_Grunberg@ademco.com Subject: Re[2]: music notation To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 9 Text Most good notation programs have a feature called "part extraction", which does exactly that: it "extracts" or creates individual parts from the score. Some programs like Finale also can automatically combine many measures of rest together in one step. I have tons of orchestral scores, good and bad, for reference. -Dave P.S. I just found a score with the dymanic marks above the vocal staves, as discussed. If you have a fax machine, I can send you some example score pages.  1, answered, forwarded,, Summary-line: 14-Feb Larry Byler #Re: Utopia PDF score Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05630; Wed, 14 Feb 96 19:48:20 EST Received: from hpcsos.col.hp.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25024; Wed, 14 Feb 96 19:47:44 EST Received: from hpmpea2.cup.hp.com by hpcsos.col.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+IOS 3.14) id AA118653691; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:21:31 -0700 Received: from hpmpec3c.cup.hp.com by hpmpea2.cup.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.20+cup+OMrelay) id AA03736; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:20:19 -0800 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Utopia PDF score In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Feb 96 03:02:58 EST." <199602140802.DAA08124@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 16:20:21 -0800 Message-Id: <3694.824343621@hpmpea2> From: Larry Byler *** EOOH *** To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Utopia PDF score In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Feb 96 03:02:58 EST." <199602140802.DAA08124@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 16:20:21 -0800 From: Larry Byler >Hi Larry. Hi Dave, >We've found a few typos in the Act I stuff that I downloaded; would >you like to have them back? Sure. Possibly the easiest way would be for you to cite page number, system, and measure. That would save trying to send a marked-up copy or some such thing. And I appreciate your taking the time. >Also, where the piano music differs from the Chappell significantly ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >(such as the introduction to No. 7) - is this due to reducing the >orchestra parts into a more representative score? What do you mean by "differs"? For example, I wrote out the violin obbligato for 4a because (for me) it's an integral part of the piece. And I transcribed the playout for No. 8 because it's in the orchestra parts (and omitted the middle of that number because it's *not* in the parts). I've also tried to include all rehearsal letters *as they occur in the parts*, and set up repeats in the same fashion. Where Chappell differs from the parts, I let the parts govern. One of the most obvious of these is Act 1, No. 1, where Chappell rehearsal letters range from C to F, but they are A to D in the parts. With that as a background, I'm not aware of a significant difference in the intro to No. 7 (_Oh maiden rich in Girton lore_). There are far more significant differences in Act 2, No. 4 (the Drawing-Room music). >Our Captain Fitzbattleaxe would like to know why he's set in the Bass >clef. :-) Excellent question. When I first started the Utopia project, I was disturbed by the artifact of scoring men's notes an octave higher than they are actually sung, using the treble clef. At that time, I had not heard of the tenor clef (a treble clef with a little "8" at the bottom), nor did I know that Finale supported it. The Chappell edition uses a simple treble clef, so I didn't gain any more insight that way either. And I figured that bass-baritone lines are set in the bass clef, so male singers shouldn't have a problem reading it. It turns out I was quite wrong, as several of the Stanford Savoyards singers asked me the same question you did. I will probably go back and change the clefs on all the tenor lines. >FYI: Each system of _Eagle High_ just barely fits on a page, 12 staffs >to the system. That was one of the faster ones to set, actually. The >hardest one was _With wily brain_. Yes, I was quite pleased with the fit on _Eagle high_ -- pages and turns came out just right. As you might gather from all of this, I am well into Act II. I'm currently working on _If you think we are banded in unity_ (?) (the number after _With fury deep we burn_, the reprise of the _Let all your doubts take wing_ tune). So _With wily brain upon the spot_ is next. I'm curious why this one strikes you as difficult. Many of the notes are cut-and-paste, and word density is quite low. I guess I'll find out soon. For what it's worth, _Eagle high_ took a very long time to set. Twelve different staves, limited cut-and-paste of vocal lines, and (peculiar to Finale), the inability to shrink notes over a range of measures. I had to shrink the notes in the piano part chord by chord. Then I also found that, once shrunk, the right-hand stem notes no longer lined up with the left-hand stem notes, so I had to drag them individually to line them up. Finally, I had to enter dynamic marks individually on each of the twelve staves. Finale supports a score mark, where you enter it once and it appears on all staves, but I never use that because some staves require a tweak to get the score mark off of a notehead, or a lyric or... well, you get the idea. Thanks for sharing, and I look forward to your list of typos. Hope you have a fine production. Lyric Theatre (nee GSSSJ) is doing Utopia this fall, so I need my stuff by June. Regards, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -Larry Byler- e-mail: lbyler@cup.hp.com Lyric Theatre: Videographer (the performing company of the Rehearsal pianist (1 of 3) Gilbert & Sullivan Society of San Jose) Stanford Savoyards: Videographer Rehearsal pianist (1 of 4)  1,, Summary-line: 2-Mar Tom Yu #neat paragraph formatting hack Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00360; Sat, 2 Mar 96 04:15:25 EST Received: from BART-SAVAGEWOOD.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00610; Sat, 2 Mar 96 04:15:01 EST Received: by bart-savagewood.MIT.EDU (5.0/4.7) id AA01443; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 04:15:36 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 04:15:36 -0500 Message-Id: <9603020915.AA01443@bart-savagewood.MIT.EDU> To: tex-hackers@MIT.EDU From: Tom Yu Subject: neat paragraph formatting hack Content-Length: 1194 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 04:15:36 -0500 To: tex-hackers@MIT.EDU From: Tom Yu Subject: neat paragraph formatting hack Content-Length: 1194 \catcode`@=11 \newcount\linethresh \linethresh=3 \newdimen\bigbaselineskip \bigbaselineskip=1.5\baselineskip \everypar={\setbox1=\hbox\bgroup} \def\par{\ifhmode\egroup\begingroup \setbox3=\vbox{\everypar={}\unhcopy1\endgraf\xdef\bl@m {\ifnum\prevgraf>\linethresh \baselineskip=\bigbaselineskip \fi}\aftergroup\bl@m}\unhbox1\endgraf\endgroup \fi} \catcode`@=12 Basically what this little plain TeX hack does is figures out whether a given paragraph is longer than a certain number of lines (default 3), and if so sets it with a larger \baselineskip value (default 1.5 * \baselineskip). The way this works is by setting \everypar to suck each paragraph into an \hbox. The \par at the end of the paragraph finishes off the \hbox and copies it into a vbox to see how many lines it takes. If it's over the threshold, \baselineskip gets set to the larger value. Exercise for the hacker: Why the \xdef\bl@m concoction? :-) In case you're wondering what inspired me to such grossity, I'm taking 21M781 (Playwriting), and there is this requirement that speeches longer than 3 lines need to be set with larger linespacing to be more legible to the actor. (Hi Richard!) ---Tom  1,, Summary-line: 18-Mar Larry Byler #Re: Importing the Flowers of Progress Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24368; Mon, 18 Mar 96 19:10:25 EST Received: from MIT.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04407; Mon, 18 Mar 96 19:10:23 EST Received: from paloalto.access.hp.com by MIT.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21777; Mon, 18 Mar 96 19:11:07 EST Received: from hpmpea2.cup.hp.com by paloalto.access.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA077744266; Mon, 18 Mar 1996 16:11:06 -0800 Received: from hpmpec3c.cup.hp.com by hpmpea2.cup.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.20+cup+OMrelay) id AA22831; Mon, 18 Mar 1996 16:11:05 -0800 To: opus@MIT.EDU (David C. Jedlinsky) Subject: Re: Importing the Flowers of Progress In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Mar 96 18:03:04 EST." <199603182300.SAA05543@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 16:13:23 -0800 Message-Id: <16850.827194403@hpmpea2> From: Larry Byler *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU (David C. Jedlinsky) Subject: Re: Importing the Flowers of Progress In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Mar 96 18:03:04 EST." <199603182300.SAA05543@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 16:13:23 -0800 From: Larry Byler >The MIT G&S Players will be performing Utopia, Ltd. in April. Given >the level of discussion regarding cuts (originated, a while back, by >our music director), we thought we ought to list exactly *which* >version of Utopia will be presented, in the hopes that many of you may >wish to come and see it. [...] > Vocal Score: > Savoynet edition. > Act I by Larry Byler, available on the G&S archive. > Act II by David Jedlinsky, to be made available soon. Thanks for the tip of the hat. And especially thanks again for all the corrections to Act I, which I'm slowly working through. You were correct in pointing out that the twins sing different parts of the two verses of _Although of native maids the cream_ -- I had overlooked that when I col- lapsed the written-out two verses of Chappell into my version with a repeat. Unfortunately, the parts they trade off are not consistent between the two verses, which makes marking my version, um, shall we say, interesting. My daughter, who played Kalyba eight years ago, thinks that was done to make sure Nekaya gets all the high notes (everything above F top-of-staff (is that written F''?)). Good luck on your run. -Larry- e-mail: lbyler@cup.hp.com s-mail: Hewlett-Packard phone: (408) 447-6094 19447 Pruneridge Cupertino CA, 95014 M/S 47UX  1,, Summary-line: 22-Mar NeXTmusic #NeXTmusic #933 Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03771; Fri, 22 Mar 96 14:39:46 EST Received: from quip.eecs.umich.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20957; Fri, 22 Mar 96 14:39:42 EST Received: (from mrozek@localhost) by quip.eecs.umich.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24682 for opus@athena.mit.edu; Fri, 22 Mar 1996 14:40:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 14:40:28 -0500 (EST) From: NeXTmusic Message-Id: <199603221940.OAA24682@quip.eecs.umich.edu> To: opus@MIT.EDU Reply-To: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Errors-To: nextmusic-request@eecs.umich.edu Subject: NeXTmusic #933 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 14:40:28 -0500 (EST) From: NeXTmusic To: opus@MIT.EDU Reply-To: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Subject: NeXTmusic #933 NeXTmusic Digest #933 Fri 22 Mar 1996 Forum for music and DSP related topics in the world of NeXTStep. Eric M. Mrozek, NeXTmusic administrator Contents: New ProductionPartner release (1.67) with special offer (Gerald Erdmann) Re: Sonata font... where to find it? (Eric M. Mrozek) Send article submissions only to: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to: nextmusic-request@eecs.umich.edu Archives and other goodies are available via anonymous ftp: ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/pub/nextmusic Read the list of sound and music programs for NextStep at: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~mrozek/NxtSndMusProgs.html ------------------------------------- From: Gerald Erdmann Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 23:04:59 +0100 To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: New ProductionPartner release (1.67) with special offer Old-Reply-To: info@rcnhost.dasburo.de WELCOME TO PRODUCTIONPARTNER RCN is pleased to present version 1.67 of ProductionPartner, a professional tool for harddisk-recording, playing, editing and archiving of high quality (CD) sounds. You can rearrange, cut, paste and edit sounds. Sounds can be collected in archives called playlists which are unities within ProductionPartner. In addition text, images and movies may be used in a .rtfd file which is attached to each sound for description or background info on sound, like in a CD database. The program may be used to master audio CDs. Support for NeXT Computer and Intel based NEXTSTEP systems is available now. On Intel based Systems you need a NEXTSTEP supported sound card (we recommend SoundBlaster16, new Plug & Play cards not tested yet). For SUN and HP workstations ProductionPartner is available too, but for both architectures the current version is a beta release. SPECIAL OFFER AND RAFFLE OFF FREE LICENSES UNTIL APRIL 8th, 1996 RCN raffles three licenses of ProductionPartner. Until April 8th, 1996 you can participate by ordering your test license now! Tell us the name and the host id of your computer and we will send you a full license valid for two weeks. Everybody cannot win, so RCN afford all others of this raffle a 20 percent reduced price for a full ProductionPartner license who order his test license up to April 8th this year. *** CALL US NOW AND WIN PRODUCTIONPARTNER **** ABOUT PRODUCTIONPARTNER ProductionPartner is a NEXTSTEP application for recording, playing, editing and archiving of sounds. You can play, cut, paste and edit sounds. Sounds can be collected and rearranged in archives called playlists which are unities within ProductionPartner. Via documents (list of sounds) you can easily administrate sounds or search and find text marks. Therefore besides the sound data ProductionPartner stores additional informations (e. g. the author of the sound or any other comments) in .rtfd format. By the way sound files can be located on other machines within a network; the sounds will be linked or copied. Thus you can include graphics, videos or pictures in your audio archive just like in a multimedia archive. A comfortable sound editor permits displaying and cutting of sounds, subsequent level change and other effects. BroadcastPartner: We offer an extention for ProductionPartner called BroadcastPartner which offers you an automation of radio broadcast. Another extension to ProductionPartner to distribute music through networks for music production and publication firms is under development, special solutions are available. For further informations please contact RCN. Special features of ProductionPartner compared with other sound applications available for NEXTSTEP: * ProductionPartner is the only NEXTSTEP application which enables you to record sounds in CD quality (44.1 kHz, stereo) on intel hardware * ProductionPartner is a harddisc recording AND playing system, your swapdisc won't grow if you use big sounds. Therefore ProductionPartner doesn't need much more memory to play big sounds. * ProductionPartner can play sounds longer than six minutes. Because of a bug in NEXTSTEP normally you can't do this so almost all other sound applications fail to play such sounds! * ProductionPartner has a time bar to jump to any position in your sound or sound list WITHOUT delay during playback even using very large sounds! You can do this with a single mouse click. * The editor of ProductionPartner supports a reduction factor smaller one so you can zoom in as far as you want! Moreover, it's much faster than most of the other sound editors, and it needs less memory. * ProductionPartner offers you a frontend for making backups (tar format) of your sound library on a streamer or other devices. Support for NeXT Computer and Intel based NEXTSTEP systems is available now. On Intel based Systems you need a NEXTSTEP supported sound card (we recommend SoundBlaster16, new Plug & Play cards not tested yet). For SUN and HP workstations ProductionPartner is available too, but for both architectures the current version is a beta release. If you don't have any sound card RCN offers a bundle including a sound card or with any oterh hardware you need. Call RCN for details. ProductionPartner is a demo version which can be licensed. You find the newest version at the following internet locations: ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/NeXT/new/audio/apps/commercial ftp://peanuts.leo.org/pub/comp/platforms/next/Commercial/Audio ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/demos/sound ORDER YOUR FREE TEST LICENSE Your can order your personal free test license. Tell us the name and the host id of your computer and we will send you a full license valid for two weeks. NORMAL PRICES At the moment the following prices are valid: $275 for the ProductionPartner 1.67 (user license) $295 for the ProductionPartner 1.67 (machine license) call RCN for a network license SPECIAL OFFER UNTIL APRIL 8th, 1996 After testing ProductionPartner we offer you a 20 percent discount (valid until April 8th, 1996): $220 for the ProductionPartner 1.67 (user license) $235 for the ProductionPartner 1.67 (machine license) For getting a license or licenseable version please contact RCN. We accept MC, VISA, money order or checks. Realtime Computing and Nets (RCN) Flotowstrasse 2 D - 12203 Berlin Germany TEL + 49 30 834 01 07 FAX + 49 30 834 01 08 GSM + 49 172 300 09 95 email info@rcnhost.dasburo.de To order a license please send us the following informations: * Username and HostID (user license) * HostID (machine license) * Number of Users and one HostID (network license) RELEASE NOTES 1.67.0 - New contact panel was added - Sound can be saved in WAV format - Improved handling after system crashs - Crash during the first launch ever was fixed - Improved check if user's action is plausible - Sounds with 8 bit samples played correctly now - Some minor bugs was fixed - First SUN and HP-PA release (beta) 1.66.0 - A lots of bug fixes and many performance optimizations - Level meter can be switch off 1.65.4 - Bug fix release 1.65.0 - First Intel release ProductionPartner was completelly overworked compared with version 1.5 which was only available for NeXT hardware ABOUT RCN Realtime Computing and Nets (RCN) was founded in 1989 by engineers who worked on research problems at the Technical University of Berlin; among others the research areas of RCN are acoustics, sound engineering, broadcast and radio management systems, audio and video database systems, digital signal processing, instrumentation, communication, satellite and navigation systems. PRODUCTS PC boards and interface cards for instrumentation and digital signal processing (DSP) in audio/video, acoustics, analysis of signal and system analysis, synthesis control and measurement, neuronal networks. NEXTSTEP systems and NEXTSTEP products. SUN, HP, Silicon Graphics, Apple, PC Intel DOS-Windows Systems. SYSTEM CONSULTING AND SERVICE Development of hard- and software according to industry needs and standards on customers' demands. Consulting and distribution of DSP hardware and software. NEXTSTEP support, Unix heterogeneous nets and system administration. DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING AND DEVELOPING SYSTEMS DSP cards, signal input/output interfaces, software and developing tools, Developments on customers' demands, DSP application software SOLUTIONS FOR NETWORK COMPUTING Internet services (World Wide Web, ISDN) System integrations, Multimedia databases APPLICATION AREAS Communication service and support, audio und video signalprocessing, data base applications, system engineering and control SPECIAL INTEREST Development of hardware and software in DSP (digital signal processing), DSP boards, multiprocessor systems, solutions in instrumentation, audio and video for multimedia applications, communication, ISDN systems and installations, acoustic design. With compentence and expert knowledge RCN succeeds in INDUSTRIAL PROJECTS in the following ranges: Digital signal processing and development systems, software and hardware for audio processing, measurement and instrumentation, radio, broadcast and professional music applications. Copyright (c) 1996 RCN Realtime Computing and Nets. All brand names mentioned are trademarks of their respective owners. ------------------------------------- From: "Eric M. Mrozek" Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 14:25:47 -0500 To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: Re: Sonata font... where to find it? > Subject says it all: from which vendors have people purchased > the Adobe Sonata font for NeXTstep? And, perhaps more importantly, > how much did it cost? I don't remember how much the Sonata font costs, but it should be something like $30. I buy all my fonts as PC formatted files and use the font conversion utilities that are at ftp://peanuts.leo.org/pub/comp/platforms/next/Fonts/ converters/pcATMfont2Next.s.tar.gz ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/fonts/pcATMfont2Next.tar.Z This is a collection of several scripts that do different parts of the conversion. I put together a little script that automates the process into one command. I can put my version of the package in the NextMusic archives if someone asks for it. There are also converters for Mac fonts. I also know that you can also buy preconverted Adobe fonts from Trilithon: Trilithon Software Two Ohlone Portola Valley, California 94028. Telephone: (415) 325-0767 FAX: (415) 325-0768 E-mail: info@trilithon.com Eric ------------------------------------- End of NeXTmusic Digest #933  1,, Summary-line: 26-Mar Leah Bateman #pointer revision Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08043; Tue, 26 Mar 96 14:23:29 EST Received: from hilly.harlequin.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04795; Tue, 26 Mar 96 14:22:24 EST Received: from epcot.harlequin.com by hilly.harlequin.com; Tue, 26 Mar 1996 14:22:24 -0500 Received: from lantra.harlequin.com by epcot.harlequin.com; Tue, 26 Mar 1996 14:22:21 -0500 From: Leah Bateman Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 14:22:20 EST Message-Id: <25175.9603261922@lantra.harlequin.com> To: ace@MIT.EDU, art41002@nus.sg, b.ex@lbs.lon.ac.uk, kaf@space.mit.edu Cc: ian@bibbly.demon.co.uk, drj@harlequin.com, meta@harlequin.com, akatlas@MIT.EDU, len18@MIT.EDU Cc: dlew@wind1000.nrel.gov, dlheine@leland.Stanford.EDU Cc: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu, henrik@husc.harvard.edu, hurdler@MIT.EDU Cc: JSAGARIN@vax.clarku.edu, kitty.cook@rahul.net, octagon@MIT.EDU Cc: nkarp@brynmawr.edu, opus@MIT.EDU, peisach@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu Cc: rei@MIT.EDU, sbarr@xn.ll.mit.edu, tytso@MIT.EDU Cc: tam-lin@apocalypse.org, q9521286@zeus.usq.edu.au Cc: aardvark@numachi.numachi.com Subject: pointer revision Reply-To: lmb@harlequin.com *** EOOH *** From: Leah Bateman Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 14:22:20 EST To: ace@MIT.EDU, art41002@nus.sg, b.ex@lbs.lon.ac.uk, kaf@space.mit.edu Cc: ian@bibbly.demon.co.uk, drj@harlequin.com, meta@harlequin.com, akatlas@MIT.EDU, len18@MIT.EDU Cc: dlew@wind1000.nrel.gov, dlheine@leland.Stanford.EDU Cc: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu, henrik@husc.harvard.edu, hurdler@MIT.EDU Cc: JSAGARIN@vax.clarku.edu, kitty.cook@rahul.net, octagon@MIT.EDU Cc: nkarp@brynmawr.edu, opus@MIT.EDU, peisach@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu Cc: rei@MIT.EDU, sbarr@xn.ll.mit.edu, tytso@MIT.EDU Cc: tam-lin@apocalypse.org, q9521286@zeus.usq.edu.au Cc: aardvark@numachi.numachi.com Subject: pointer revision Reply-To: lmb@harlequin.com I've moved back to Boston! (Well, the greater Boston area, anyway.) Here's my new contact info: Leah Bateman 25 East Derry Road Derry, NH 03038 (603) 434-6842 Harlequin Inc. One Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 (617) 374-2508 Hope to see many of you soon. Leah  1,, Summary-line: 8-Apr NeXTmusic #NeXTmusic #937 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16498; Mon, 8 Apr 96 12:32:41 EDT Received: from quip.eecs.umich.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB08712; Mon, 8 Apr 96 12:32:40 EDT Received: (from mrozek@localhost) by quip.eecs.umich.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA11114 for opus@athena.mit.edu; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:33:35 -0400 (EDT) From: NeXTmusic Message-Id: <199604081633.MAA11114@quip.eecs.umich.edu> To: opus@MIT.EDU Reply-To: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Errors-To: nextmusic-request@eecs.umich.edu Subject: NeXTmusic #937 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:33:35 -0400 (EDT) From: NeXTmusic To: opus@MIT.EDU Reply-To: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Subject: NeXTmusic #937 NeXTmusic Digest #937 Mon 08 Apr 1996 Forum for music and DSP related topics in the world of NeXTStep. Eric M. Mrozek, NeXTmusic administrator Contents: Sequence is now freeware (David A. Jaffe) How dod I use the Turtle Beach Tahiti for MIDI? (John Milton) Send article submissions to: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to: nextmusic-request@eecs.umich.edu Archives and other goodies are available via anonymous ftp: ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/pub/nextmusic Read the list of sound and music programs for NextStep at: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~mrozek/nextmusic/NxtSndMusProgs.html ------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Apr 96 19:02:10 -0800 From: david@jaffe.com (David A. Jaffe) To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu, mkdist@ccrma.stanford.edu Reply-To: david@jaffe.com Sequence, a full-featured Music Kit sequencer by Pinnacle Research, is now available free of charge. It runs on both Intel and NeXT hardware. Sequence was first introduced in May 1992 as a commercial product of Pinnacle Research, Inc. It was released, and sold, in Beta form to allow NEXTSTEP users to do sequencing under NEXTSTEP, since no other sequencing applications existed. Unfortunately, Pinnacle Research was unsuccessful and has folded as a company, and the developers have gone on to other jobs. As a result, development of this application was on long-term hold. In order for the application not to die completely, it was finally decided to release the current version of the application publicly. The licensing code which disabled saving in the previous versions has been removed. Sequence runs under NEXTSTEP 3.x and requires no special libraries (neither the Foundation Kit nor the Music Kit) to be installed. It comes complete with Intel drivers for MIDI and DSP, as well as a copy of the MusicKit Preferences module. Sequence can be obtained via ftp as: ftp://ftp-ccrma.stanford.edu/pub/NeXT/Sequence.9.8.1.tar.Z. Note that this release is "as is". However, please report any bugs or problems. David A. Jaffe david@jaffe.com http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~daj ------------------------------------- From: John Milton Date: Mon, 8 Apr 96 00:57:00 -0400 To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: How dod I use the Turtle Beach Tahiti for MIDI? Reply-To: jbm@infinet.com X-Url: http://www.infinet.com/~jbm/ As far as I can tell, the Turtle Beach Tahiti card has a MIDI port, but it isn't MPU-401 compatible, Is there a MIDI driver for this card? On a similar topic, the Turtle Beach Tahiti can not (yet) ack as a Sound card, so I'm thinking of getting Sound Blaster 16, which has a MIDI port. Is anyone using the Sound Blaster 16 value on NSFIP with the MIDI port? Is there a cheap source for the Game/MIDI port converter cable? It really rubs me the wrong way to pay $90 for the card and $30 for the cable. In a perfect world, the Tahiti would have a single driver that would act as a MusicKit, SoundKit and MIDI port. BTW, I was talking with my roommate, who is a BIG MODule fan and I was wondering if anyone has written a MOD player for the 56k DSP. John --- John Bly Milton IV w:614.798.9104 h:457.NeXT http://www.infinet.com/~jbm/ jbm@infinet.com NeXTmail OK Don't FLAME, inform! O- ------------------------------------- End of NeXTmusic Digest #937  1,, Summary-line: 11-Apr MABromberg@aol.com #SALA CIRCUIT PLAN Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27927; Thu, 11 Apr 96 16:52:46 EDT Received: from emout07.mx.aol.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22714; Thu, 11 Apr 96 15:40:17 EDT Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA20097 for gsp-lights@mit.edu; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:41:17 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:41:17 -0400 From: MABromberg@aol.com Message-Id: <960411154116_467605670@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: gsp-lights@MIT.EDU Subject: SALA CIRCUIT PLAN *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:41:17 -0400 From: MABromberg@aol.com To: gsp-lights@MIT.EDU Subject: SALA CIRCUIT PLAN Sala lighting fans, I have updated the Sala floor plan and circuit location drawing, SALA.DWG. This revision (dated 4/11/96) corrects many small errors that have been perpetuated through several generations of floor plans, including: * Nonexistent gaps in several pipes * Pipe end locations and lengths incorrectly shown by up to 12" * Circuit box locations incorrectly shown by up to 30" (one waffle grid - if your jumper counts haven't been quite accurate, maybe this is why). Since the original is not an Autocad drawing but is in Futurenet format (an electronic schematic capture program that is no longer supported by its manufacturer), I can't send you a useful source file. (If a Postscript version would be of any use to any of you, let me know by return e-mail and I'll try to generate one.) But a paper copy is still useful for planning and tracing, and the information on it is (by now) pretty accurate. If you want a copy or copies of the corrected drawing, I will leave numerous copies in Space Dock during the run of "Utopia, Limited"; you can pick them up before or after performances these two coming weekends. Let others you know with an interest in Sala lighting design know about this. Mike Bromberg, Lighting Designer for MITG&SP "Utopia, Limited" P.S. We have just resurrected one of the Leko carcasses in SpaceDock into a working 4-1/2x6 @ 500w; please add it to the recent inventory list.  1, edited,, Summary-line: 21-Apr Richard N. Freedman #MITG&SP Utopia Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10885; Sun, 21 Apr 96 02:09:11 EDT Received: from mailserver.ctcne.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09397; Sun, 21 Apr 96 02:08:33 EDT Received: from beta100.lobster.near.net (ab100.ctcne.com [206.35.216.100]) by mailserver.ctcne.com (8.6.9/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA12722; Sun, 21 Apr 1996 02:07:01 -0400 Message-Id: <3179D097.3D21@ctcne.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 02:07:19 -0400 From: "Richard N. Freedman" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Marion Leeds Carroll Cc: gsp-cast@MIT.EDU Subject: MITG&SP Utopia Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="UTOPIA.TXT" *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 02:07:19 -0400 From: "Richard N. Freedman" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Marion Leeds Carroll Cc: gsp-cast@MIT.EDU Subject: MITG&SP Utopia Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="UTOPIA.TXT" I had worries, before going to the MIT G&SP Utopia, Ltd., about the quality of show I was going to see. They have on various occasions had problems in recruiting, costumes, one or the other of the choruses was weak, or the like; and this show requires an exceptionally large cast. My fears would have been even worse if I had read the review they got in The Tech. But they would have been groundless. MITG&SP produced an excellent production with a full cast, strong, well staged, well costumed, well directed. The choreography, though not complex, was extremely appropriate and well executed. New to me was their Zara, Holly Teichholtz, sweet-voiced and effective. Also especially effective were Mr. Goldbury (David Jedlinsky) and Scaphio (Daniel Kamalic), in roles in which their clarity of diction was especially appreciated. Lady Sophy (Anita Costanzo) was impeccably proper. Chorus member Tova Brown was unusually convincing in conveying her character, which she may have learned from her father, an engaging and facially expressive King Paramount (Sheldon Brown). I enjoyed several minor bits of staging. "In lazy languor motionless" included a change of shifts which drew a laugh. "Boldfaced ranger" recruited different chorus members to demonstrate each "scene", or verse, and the onlooking chorus was obviously learning from each demonstration. In "Some seven men form an Association", Mr. Goldbury showed "If you come to grief" explicitly, with emptied pockets turned inside- out. The lovely twins Kalyba (Lya Ana Batlle) and Nekaya (Andrea Humez), when coaxed out of their demureness, each in turn let down their hair and "It's all her own and it's worth the showing!" The set seemed simple and effective, but revealed a hidden complexity when the background peak turned into a volcano for the Scaphio-Phantis "With fury deep we burn" duet. The rebellion had the Flowers of Progress bound and helpless, except for the appearance of Captain Fitzbattleaxe and the First Life Guards lending authority to King Paramount's casting about for a solution. I had with me a friend new to G&S, and expected that she might have to be coaxed to see G&S again. Happily, that extremity will not be required. Dick Freedman  1,, Summary-line: 21-Apr Steve Johnson #MITG&S Utopia, Ltd. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20189; Sun, 21 Apr 96 22:11:45 EDT Received: from [204.176.212.2] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28700; Sun, 21 Apr 96 22:11:32 EDT Received: from [192.0.2.1] (stevej@DownEast.Net [204.176.212.2]) by downeast.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05170 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 1996 22:23:35 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:12:07 -0500 To: opus@MIT.EDU (Dave Jedlinsky) From: stevej@downeast.net (Steve Johnson) Subject: MITG&S Utopia, Ltd. *** EOOH *** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:12:07 -0500 To: opus@MIT.EDU (Dave Jedlinsky) From: stevej@downeast.net (Steve Johnson) Subject: MITG&S Utopia, Ltd. We drove down from Bangor last Thursday afternoon and returned late Thursday night after having thoroughly enjoyed your Utopia. Our company had taken that show to Buxton two years ago, but I had not had the opportunity to see it in its entirety from the other side of the footlights. Thanks for the making the long drive worth it. ----------------------* "Technology plans should be written in Jello, not Steve Johnson * carved in stone, but it is the curriculum that stevej@downeast.net * drives the technology. We must not allow the ----------------------* technology to drive the curriculum." - peers, wiser than I  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 22-Apr coles_cc@wlf21.wlf.state. #Re: Noyz by the Boyz and the Hood Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25088; Mon, 22 Apr 96 17:01:11 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15592; Mon, 22 Apr 96 17:01:08 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA28710; Mon, 22 Apr 1996 17:01:59 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 17:01:59 -0400 Message-Id: <96042215593573@wlf21.wlf.state.la.us> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: coles_cc@wlf21.wlf.state.la.us To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Noyz by the Boyz and the Hood X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 17:01:59 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: coles_cc@wlf21.wlf.state.la.us To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Noyz by the Boyz and the Hood X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Here's a to-do to die to-day at a minute or two to two is from MERRIE ENGLAND. The song continues: A thing distinctly hard to say and harder still to do We'll beat a tattoo at two to two A rat-a-tat tattoo -- boohoo! And the dragon will come when he hears the drum At a minute or two to two to-day At a minute or two to two I'm sure an exclamation point rounds off this tongue twister. Clifton Coles . . .  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 28-Apr MABromberg@aol.com #ME & ALD job descriptions Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20432; Sun, 28 Apr 96 21:23:16 EDT Received: from emout18.mx.aol.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29603; Sun, 28 Apr 96 21:23:14 EDT Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA10281 for gsp-lights@mit.edu; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:24:24 -0400 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:24:24 -0400 From: MABromberg@aol.com Message-Id: <960428212423_385260706@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: gsp-lights@MIT.EDU Subject: ME & ALD job descriptions *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:24:24 -0400 From: MABromberg@aol.com To: gsp-lights@MIT.EDU Subject: ME & ALD job descriptions MITG&SP lighting fans, I'm enclosing preliminary job descriptions of the positions of Master Electrician and Assistant Lighting Designer for the MITG&SP Producer's Manual. I will bring this document in both Word and Text format on an IBM 3.5" floppy to the Gencomm meeting tomorrow. You are welcome to read and comment on the content of these; you can either reply to me by e-mail or tell me at Gencomm. See you there. Mike Enclosure: ************************************************** MIT Gilbert & Sullivan Players Master Electrician & Assistant Lighting Designer Job Descriptions Mike Bromberg '70 4/28/96 The Master Electrician is responsible for implementing the Lighting Designer's paper hardware design. She or he must be available during the entire load-in and strike, and before each rehearsal and performance in the performing space. It is possible for a cast member to be Master Electrician. The Master Electrician manages the crew for load-in, running, and strike, and is responsible for the proper operation of the lighting department and system during the run of the show. Optionally (by negotiation with the Lighting Designer), he or she may perform some of the design, such as plotting the cable layout and arranging for equipment rental and delivery. The Assistant Lighting Designer is responsible principally for helping the Lighting Designer write cues. She or he must be present in the booth during all cue-to-cue and technical rehearsals. He or she must be able to make stylistically-consistent design decisions in the absence of the Lighting Designer. An Assistant Lighting Designer is optional, though highly recommended, particularly if the Lighting Designer is in the cast. It is possible for either the Lighting Designer or the Assistant to be in the cast, but not both! Optionally (by negotiation with the Lighting Designer), she or he may perform some of the design duties, such as preparing hanging cards. Required duties of the Master Electrician: 1. Obtain copies of the Lighting Designer's plot, hookup, and equipment lists. Become thoroughly familiar with the lighting design, to the point of knowing the source, type, wattage, color, purpose, and focus of each piece of equipment. 2. Recruit potential crew members for hanging and running. Keep a list of names and contacts. 3. Manage the load-in, hanging, cabling, patching, coloring, and focusing of the lighting setup with due regard to safety, crew efficiency, available time, and the Lighting Designer's intent. 4. Debug and correct problems encountered during installation. 5. Schedule the running crew for rehearsals and performances. 6. Manage the strike and load-out of the equipment. 7. In the absence of the Lighting Designer and Assistant, be able to answer questions and make corrections in the lighting design when required. Required duties of the Assistant Lighting Designer: 1. Obtain copies of the Lighting Designer's plot, hookup, and equipment lists. Become thoroughly familiar with the lighting design, to the point of knowing the source, type, wattage, color, purpose, and focus of each piece of equipment. Make or copy a magic sheet for the design, and get to know it intimately. 2. Discuss cue descriptions with the Lighting Designer. Become thoroughly familiar with the reason, trigger, timing, and desired effect of each cue. 3. During cue writing, be able to translate the Lighting Designer's requests and intents into levels and channels on the board. Ensure that cues and their timing are recorded accurately. 4. Assist the Lighting Designer in correcting, modifying, adding, or deleting cues until the design is right. 5. In the absence of the Lighting Designer, be able to answer questions and make corrections in the lighting design when required. Other duties which may be negotiated among the Lighting Designer, Assistant Lighting Designer, Master Electrician, and Board Operator: 1. Pre-visit the performance space to check the inventory count. If possible, check and repair all equipment. Update the inventory count. 2. Build practical props and special setups. 3. Draw the cabling plan; calculate the amount of cable and adapters required. 4. Arrange for the rental, pickup, and delivery of equipment required beyond the inventory. 5. Order, pickup, and cut gels. 6. Prepare hanging cards, register tapes, cable plots, bundle plots, instruction lists, crew demonstrations, or other aids to accurate and efficient work. 7. Do an instrument and channel check before each performance. 8. Ensure that running lights are correct before each performance. **********************************************************  1,, Summary-line: 21-May Keven J. Siegert #Time Lapse Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16876; Tue, 21 May 96 11:28:44 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22468; Tue, 21 May 96 11:28:43 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id KAA09539; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:21:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA02031 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:18:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailhub.hitchcock.org (MAILHUB.HITCHCOCK.ORG [130.189.240.100]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01995 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:18:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailbox1.Hitchcock.ORG (MAILBOX1.HITCHCOCK.ORG [130.189.240.110]) by mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA04636 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:18:04 -0400 Message-Id: <3509357@mailbox1.Hitchcock.ORG> Date: 21 May 96 11:18:03 EDT Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Keven.J.Siegert@Hitchcock.ORG (Keven J. Siegert) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Time Lapse X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: 21 May 96 11:18:03 EDT Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Keven.J.Siegert@Hitchcock.ORG (Keven J. Siegert) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Time Lapse X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN I don't remember who was trying to do some time lapse a few weeks ago, but since I just ran across this info, thought I'd pass it along... Keven __________________________ Time Lapse of A Major Construction Project in the Woods of New Hampshire Using Slides by Tom Kidder When I came on staff as a videographer in 1987, The Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center was just drawing in the final details on their plan for a brand new facility, and chain saws were starting to chew a road into the 130 acre tract of forest, leading the way for the legions of earth movers, cement trucks, and cranes. Always the dreamer, I thought, a little too loudly, "Wouldn't it be neat to shoot a time-lapse of the three year construction?" My boss said "Yes it would!" and I was off and running, without an inkling of where to go or what I had gotten myself into. Having come from a film background, my first thought was to mount a 16mm camera with an intervelometer in a tree house, come back in three years and process the film. But I knew it wouldn't be that easy. I ended up using a 35mm slide camera with a custom built intervelometer, then transferring the slides to video--with excellent results. I was faced with several problems. I wanted to begin shooting before construction began. How does one compose a shot of a building that isn't there? There would be no AC power at the camera site untill the last six months of construction, and all of the timing devices I knew of would not work on DC. Temperatures in this part of New Hampshire can drop below 25 degrees F and stay there for weeks. How would that affect the equipment? And what about the heat of the summer sun? Would it spoil the film? The camera would have to be up high and there were no tall buildings around to mount it on; how would I get to the camera to change film and maintain it without risking my life? There were several things that led me away from using a movie camera, though I know that in many cases it should be the first choice for such a project. The camera box would have to be mounted in a tree, and I knew that even with the tree limbed and guyed off with cables, it would still be moving in the wind. I knew that unless I could correct these irregularities in registration after the frames were shot, the building and the mountains in the background would rock about like an earthquake in the final sequence. I also wanted to have an opportunity to reject shots with bad light or fog and shots that didn't depict much change in construction (there would be long periods of time when most of the work would be going on indoors). Picking though slides would be an easy way to edit, and I could register them while transferring them to video. I knew that I would be taking only one or two shots a day, and I wanted to be able to process my film to check the images regularly. Using movie film would have meant either leaving the camera for long periods of time, or processing two or three feet of a 50 foot roll every month. I decided to go with 35mm slides and transfer them to video once the building was completed. I chose a Nikon FA. Nikon because of its reputation for working dependably in cold weather, an FA because its five point metering system is a good averager for a wide range of conditions. The camera was fitted with an automatic film advance. Finding an intervelometer was another story. There are several good ones on the market, and Nikon even has a camera with a built in device. We needed one that would run on DC power, that would operate at temperatures below -30 F, and that would give us the option of a test button to be sure everything was working before sending it up the tree and leaving it for two to four weeks. To meet all of these requirements, we had our intervelometer made by Kalow Controls in Clarendon, Vermont. They were close and we knew they could deliver a dependable product. While they were designing and building the intervelometer, we moved ahead with the other details of the project. The camera was mounted in a waterproof, modified plastic Pelican case. A ball head bolted to the back of the case provided it with a substantial, adjustable support system. We cut a window in the front of the case and covered the opening with plexiglass sealed with silicon. A platform of treated plywood and welded angle iron was rigged to travel on two extended garage door tracks using a hand cranked winch from a boat trailer to bring it up or down. We mounted the camera in its case on this platform along with a case holding a12 volt marine battery. Lead wires were connected directly to the contact points inside the automatic film advance. I used the archetectural model of the building to determine which view I wanted and the best location from which to shoot, and some simple geometry determined the angle. Using elevations from the blue prints, the height of the tree, and the height of the building, I decided to go with a 35 mm lens and to tilt the camera at an angle of 18 degrees. A level and a protractor were useful in setting this angle. Survey stakes for the corners of the building were in place, making it easy to evaluate the test shots. Framing the shot was touch and go. Because the case was so small, it was not possible to get behind the camera and look through the viewfinder, nor would anyone volunteer to go up the tree with the camera to see how well the invisible building was framed from that perspective. We were lucky: the first test shots were framed almost perfectly, and with some minor adjustments, we were right where we wanted to be for the second roll. I wanted to start shooting before the intervelometer was ready to put into the system. Too many things were happening that I was afraid to miss. We wired the camera so it could be triggered by pressing a doorbell at the bottom of the tree, and for that first month, either I would drive out and take the shot or the foreman on-site would take care of it. Within a month, we added the intervelometer into the Pelican case. We built a photo cell into the circuit so the camera wouldn't take night shots, and the system was on its own. With summer coming on, I was nervous about the film and the camera getting too warm, especialy because the case was black. We added a vent and put a stick-on Tempilabel temperature monitor inside the case. According to the monitor, the temperature never went much higher than 100 degrees F. At first I programmed the intervelometer to take two shots per day. This way I changed film once every two weeks, so if anything were to go wrong with the system, I wouldn't miss too much of the construction. As I gained more confidence, I set the intervelometer to shoot one slide per day, realizing that for consistency, the shots I would finally end up using should have similar light and shadow. I used pictures taken around 3 PM, adjusting that time closer to noon during fall and winter as the days grew shorter. Demands on the battery were minimal. It needed to power the clock in the intervelometer 24 hours a day, but power for the camera, built in meter, and film advance only came on long enough to take the shot. I recharged the battery once a month. I didn't have a back-up battery, so I let the system rest for a day or two during charges. Once the camera had recorded some major progress in construction, I did a trial run of the time lapse using two slide projectors with a dissolve unit. I liked the effect, but I saw right away the irregularities of registration; the mountains behind the building were hopping all over the place. Since I'd gone with slides, I knew I could smooth that out in the video transfer. The shooting continued for 2 1/2 years with few problems beyond sloshing through the mud and snow of the construction site to tend to the changes of film and battery. Then came the next dragon to slay: how to make these slides into an effective video time lapse. I had much to learn. My goals at this point were to get the truest video reproduction of the slides and achieve perfect registration. Someone suggested I have the transfer done on a Rank Cintel, but the prices were way out of range. I tried using a Photovix slide transfer device which copies the slide directly to video and allows for some movement of the slide to register it to the previous slide. The slides lost too much definition and color quality. I tried shooting the slides from a screen, using two projectors and lining one slide up by projecting it over the previous slide. The registration was still jerky, and there was a lot of fall off of light and focus around the edges of the frame, a problem inherent in most slide projection systems. Success came when I borrowed an old Leitz projector from a friend who bought it at a garage sale for $35.00. The optics were superb, giving me the best definition of any method I'd tried, and a special characteristic of the Leitz is that it has no noticable drop off. This time I penciled in some critical reference points on the mattboard I used for a screen and used these to match the slides to each other. I had an assistant help me line up the slide with the pencil marks, and we had great results. We mounted the projector on a Chief stand which provides adjustment wheels for panning, tilting, and angling the picture, making it very easy to adjust the image. Before shooting, I cleaned the lenses and condensers of the projector. We did everything we could to keep the slides clean, blowing them off with compressed air, and even brushing stubborn dust away. Using a Sony M7, we shot 10 seconds each of 164 slides from a total of over 600. We chose slides with similar lighting that represented noticable changes in construction, including slides leading into and out of a rainstorm and a blizzard. In building the final time lapse, I made each slide into a two frame shot using straight cuts. After the first few edits, the effect seemed jerky and I started rehearsing ways to explain the time and money spent on the project, but by the time I was three seconds into the piece, I was getting giddy with excitement. It was really working! I experimented with using fast dissolves and rerecording in fast motion, but the results were not as satisfying as using simple cuts. Close-up and medium shot segments of the time lapse became part of a 2 1/2 minute piece. These sequences were mixed in with all kinds of fast cuts covering the history of the building project: cement trucks, cranes, ground breaking ceremonies. It was all set to raucus tempo of Oppenheimer's "Can Can," climaxing with the complete wide angle time-lapse sequence, all 18 seconds of it. The tape was immensely popular and very effective at generating enthusiasm about the new center among employees, the public, and our donors center.  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 31-May cupid@MIT.EDU #the birthday dirge Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23178; Fri, 31 May 96 17:40:29 EDT Received: from KANGAROO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21319; Fri, 31 May 96 17:40:27 EDT From: cupid@MIT.EDU Received: by kangaroo.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/08Mar96-0212PM) id AA11238; Fri, 31 May 1996 17:41:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 17:41:56 -0400 Message-Id: <9605312141.AA11238@kangaroo.mit.edu> To: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: the birthday dirge *** EOOH *** From: cupid@MIT.EDU Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 17:41:56 -0400 To: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: the birthday dirge Since so many of you were kind enough to serenade me with this on my birthday I thought y'all might appreciate the lyrics to the whole thing. For those who don't know this ... enjoy the lyrics and I'm sure people like Mark, Rich, Ken, and Jeff will be happy to sing it to you. :) -Randi ----------------------------------- THE SCA HAPPY BIRTHDAY SONG tune: "Volga Boatmen" Happy Birthday! (UHH!) Happy Birthday! (UHH!) Death and gloom and black despair People dying everywhere Happy Birthday! (UHH!) Happy Birthday! (UHH!) Now you are the age you are Fear and gloom and darkness but Your demise cannot be far no one found out YOU KNOW WHAT May the candles on your cake You're a period cook, its true burn like cities in your wake ask the beetles in the stew Burn the Castle and storm the keep Now your jail-bait days are done Kill the Women but SAVE THE SHEEP! let's go out and have some fun! May your deeds with sheep and yaks You must marry very soon equal those with sword and axe baby's due the next full moon Your servants steal, your wife's untrue Were I sitting in your shoes Your children plot to murder you I'd go out and sing the blues They stole your gold, your sword, your house Tho you're turning 29 They stole your sheep, but not your spouse age to you is like fine wine So you're 29 again Now you've lived another year don't tell lies to your good friend age to you is like stale beer So another year has passed Long ago your hair turned grey don't look now they're gaining fast! now it's falling out, they say Black Death has just struck your town It's your birthday never fear you yourself feel quite run-down You'll be dead this time next year We brought linen, white as cloud See the wrinkles on your face Now we'll sit and sew your shroud! Like the pattern of fine lace So far death you have bypassed Indigestion's what you get Don't look back it's gaining fast From the enemies you 'et I'm a leper, can't you see This one lesson you must learn Have a birthday kiss from me FIRST you pillage, THEN you burn Burn, then rape by firelight While you eat your birthday stew Add -romance- to life tonight! We will sack a town for you Birthdays come but once a year, Death will come before the dawn Marking time as Death draws near Now's the time to party on! Now you've lived another year, People starving on the earth, And your death is drawing near. Go ahead, eat your dessert, Raise your cup of bitter cheer, Rape the horses while they sleep, Make the barman eat his ear See the women wail and weep Now your hairs are turning grey, Now you've lived another year, Soon they all will fall away. And your death is drawing near. Like the wrinkles in old lace News that fills our hearts with fear: Time is etched upon your face. They've proved cancer's caused by beer, Famine, fear, and fire and flood When you've reached your age you know Can't keep your face out of the mud That the mind is first to go Happy Birthday! Live it up! /johan  1, answered,, Summary-line: 9-Jul EARS4U@aol.com #Now What.... Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12371; Tue, 9 Jul 96 15:41:19 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16164; Tue, 9 Jul 96 15:41:18 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id OAA18996; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:33:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA03666 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:32:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03645 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:32:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA26293 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 15:30:50 -0400 Message-Id: <960709153032_152153581@emout18.mail.aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 15:30:50 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: EARS4U@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Now What.... X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 15:30:50 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: EARS4U@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Now What.... X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN What I have is a barn full of dated equipment for a dream projects that never made it off the drawing board (Music, educational Videos) The intent was to turn the Barn into a Video Studio, I bought the equipment before the studio was built and still have not managed to acquire the funding to finish the project on making the studio. All intended on a wishful hope that I would somehow find the contracts big enough to acquire a loan or something similar to put it together..... Meanwhile, all I am doing is tripping over the stuff and just a concentrating on other business and my family.... What I have is a Sony SEG 2000A configured in a professional rollaround workstation, configured with a three remote camera control station for Sony M3 cameras (Have 1 spare) one is on a camera Dolly another on a cart. Also has a VO-6500 3/4" tape drive unit, 3-B/M monitor screens and a color master monitor. Designed for real-time usage Also a pile of BETA decks, Panasonic Industrial cameras, VCR dual channel decks, all kinds sizes of Dual line-VTR-commuter Monitors, SVGA - NTSC boxes, ect The question is should I hold on and cross my fingers and hope to make a pay back on this stuff or blow it out, while - if there is still -any market for it? I have been sitting on this stuff for over three years and got over ten K invested but I am fully aware the value of this stuff is not what it used to be so any input on value, strategies ect., would be appreciated. Thanks for sharing R. B. Parquette Videographer EARS4U@aol.com Milford, NH FAX-603.673-9490  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 10-Jul Robert E Lamm #Re: Now What.... Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23066; Wed, 10 Jul 96 11:12:24 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24860; Wed, 10 Jul 96 11:12:17 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id KAA04095; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:02:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA09171 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:01:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09159 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:01:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA14157; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21144; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:00:51 -0400 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: EARS4U@aol.com Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Now What.... In-Reply-To: <960709153032_152153581@emout18.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: EARS4U@aol.com Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Now What.... In-Reply-To: <960709153032_152153581@emout18.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > What I have is a Sony SEG 2000A configured in a professional rollaround > workstation, configured with a three remote camera control station for Sony > M3 cameras (Have 1 spare) one is on a camera Dolly another on a cart. Also > has a VO-6500 3/4" tape drive unit, 3-B/M monitor screens and a color master > monitor. Designed for real-time usage > > Also a pile of BETA decks, Panasonic Industrial cameras, VCR dual channel > decks, all kinds sizes of Dual line-VTR-commuter Monitors, SVGA - NTSC > boxes, ect > > The question is should I hold on and cross my fingers and hope to make a pay > back on this stuff or blow it out, while - if there is still -any market for > it? I have been sitting on this stuff for over three years and got over ten > K invested but I am fully aware the value of this stuff is not what it used > to be so any input on value, strategies ect., would be appreciated. Can't advise you if you can get the stuff to pay: It depends on if you've found any work. $10K is a small investment, so you have the theoretical possibility if you can find some clients... About liquidating: You should get good prices from the monitors, VHS decks and cases/cabinets. The cameras are pretty aged, the 3/4" deck is pretty old too. Beta decks can be pretty valuable, expecially if they can handle the SP tape stock and can edit. I think you should be able to get your 10K back if the gear is in good shape. For specific pricing, contact a local dealer and have him look up the list prices for your models or similar ones. Then discount as appropriate. The rule I use is: -Right out of the box: -1/3 -A little bit of use, but no signs of wear, no problems: -1/2 -Obvious wear, such as scratches, bare corners, etc.: -2/3 This is just a rough guide. Take into account that technological changes have made some gear very old-fashioned. Pricing for these is a lot more erratic. Sometimes you can't give the stuff away. Othertimes, you find someone who needs an extra to fill in his existing set and is willing to pay virtually anything... Reading between the lines, it sounds like this dream didn't quite work out and you'd like to get your investment back. If so, do sell out now, as the value of the gear will decline with time. If you're willing to write off the investment as a hobby, hold onto the stuff: You'll have a hard time putting a comparable system together for $10K. Last alternative: Donate the whole kaboddle to your local access station. Have them give you letter thanking you for your donation of the gear specifying the list prices (well above $10K). Depending on your tax bracket, that might be the most profitable way to go. In addition, the station will probably throw in a free membership, which means you can continue to use the stuff and you'll also find a cadre of people who'll want to help. Could be lots of fun... -Bob Lamm CYNC Corp. Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 10-Jul Leslie Strom #Re: Now What.... Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04775; Wed, 10 Jul 96 12:15:42 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19152; Wed, 10 Jul 96 12:15:41 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA07298; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:08:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24975 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:07:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from halcyon.com (mail2.halcyon.com [198.137.231.19]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24964 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:07:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [204.29.17.70] (blv-pm0-ip29.halcyon.com) by halcyon.com with SMTP id AA20772 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:06:42 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:10:41 -0700 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: lstrom@halcyon.com (Leslie Strom) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Now What.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:10:41 -0700 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: lstrom@halcyon.com (Leslie Strom) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Now What.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN The problem I see is that you approached the task of building a business on a symptomatic basis buying the equipment first before getting the projects backed, buyers in place, marketing in order. I did this same thing several years ago with a darkroom and no clients. I decided not to do this again with my new video business, so I went about things differently this time, before I got my Media 100. Small Business Administration, which is free, can give you good advice, and a focus on marketing first can put your priorities in line. If the equipment works, you might be able to arrange to supply someone else with it so they can set up a low-rent studio and share the profits with you. That way you'll probably make some money, supply someone else with an opportunity to build their own business, and see the gear being used the way you originally intended, while supplying the local video community with an affordable facility. Perhaps local cable access can buy it... the one here in Seattle uses the tube cameras and they work well. You can also just make a laundry list of the equipment and post it and you'll no doubt get takers. If you have beta decks or TBCs at a good price, put me down for one of each. >I hate to say this but you should blow it out while it still has >some worth. I can't be real certain as to what it is worth, a >broker would be better equipped but what you have identified is very >old technology and it is not getting any more precious. > >The M3 camera as I recall was introduced in 1983 and is a tube camera, >camera technology has gone to the moon and back. Sell while you can! >. . . if you can. > >Jan Crittenden Sherfy >Panasonic > >What I have is a barn full of dated equipment for a dream projects that >never made it off the drawing board (Music, educational Videos) The intent >was to turn the Barn into a Video Studio, I bought the equipment before the >studio was built and still have not managed to acquire the funding to finish >the project on making the studio. All intended on a wishful hope that I >would somehow find the contracts big enough to acquire a loan or something >similar to put it together..... >Meanwhile, all I am doing is tripping over the stuff and just a concentrating >on other business and my family.... > >What I have is a Sony SEG 2000A configured in a professional rollaround >workstation, configured with a three remote camera control station for Sony >M3 cameras (Have 1 spare) one is on a camera Dolly another on a cart. Also >has a VO-6500 3/4" tape drive unit, 3-B/M monitor screens and a color master >monitor. Designed for real-time usage > >Also a pile of BETA decks, Panasonic Industrial cameras, VCR dual channel >decks, all kinds sizes of Dual line-VTR-commuter Monitors, SVGA - NTSC > boxes, ect > >The question is should I hold on and cross my fingers and hope to make a pay >back on this stuff or blow it out, while - if there is still -any market for >it? I have been sitting on this stuff for over three years and got over ten >K invested but I am fully aware the value of this stuff is not what it used >to be so any input on value, strategies ect., would be appreciated. > >Thanks for sharing > >R. B. Parquette >Videographer >EARS4U@aol.com >Milford, NH >FAX-603.673-9490 ___________________________________________ L E S L I E S T R O M W I D E A N G L E P R O D U C T I O N S Seattle, Washington lstrom@halcyon.com New video releases! August '96: "The Road to Pullman" September '96: "Canine Massage: for the Health and Well-being of Your Dog" October '96: "Swans in the Wild" "Start slow, then taper off." - marathoner Walt Stack, 1908-1995  1,, Summary-line: 11-Jul EARS4U@aol.com #Re: Now What.... Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19597; Thu, 11 Jul 96 13:31:56 EDT Received: from emout12.mx.aol.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09992; Thu, 11 Jul 96 13:31:54 EDT Received: by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA22897 for opus@mit.edu; Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:33:20 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:33:20 -0400 From: EARS4U@aol.com Message-Id: <960711133319_235580153@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Now What.... *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:33:20 -0400 From: EARS4U@aol.com To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Now What.... Hi Dave, Nice meeting you last night...thanks for the input and support Will be in touch... My phone # is 673-9490 t?t V  1,, Summary-line: 12-Jul Bruce H. Sakow #Re: Music videos Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17892; Fri, 12 Jul 96 21:01:55 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21491; Fri, 12 Jul 96 21:01:53 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id TAA12302; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:55:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA15691 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:53:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from greece.it.earthlink.net (greece-c.it.earthlink.net [206.85.92.38]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA15684 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:53:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 153.37.10.45 (pool045.Max6.Newark.NJ.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.10.45]) by greece.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22939; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31E6F3D1.7219@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 20:54:41 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Bruce H. Sakow" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Music videos References: <199607121617.MAA19245@maple.sover.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 20:54:41 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Bruce H. Sakow" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Music videos References: <199607121617.MAA19245@maple.sover.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN The June/July 96 issue of DV's Full Motion newsletter had a great article on MTV music videos. They recommended using Premiere to record time code burned onto a picture with the track starting at 01:00:00:00 with the music starting right there on the audio track. Print to video and playback the video on the set with the song from a VCR. At the beginning of every take, the camera records a few seconds of a video monitor showing the time code and - bata bing - you have a visual reference to quickly synch a track to in post. Of course, use the same track that was prepared in Premiere as a master audio/TC reference. If you don't have Premiere and are working in a linear edit system, record the track onto a master tape with time code window burn in on your video (using VITC track) with hi-fi stereo/linear audio and later do inserts with your camera footage. That sound easy enough?  1,, Summary-line: 12-Jul J.S. Kidd #Re: Engineering Question (Long!) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27005; Sat, 13 Jul 96 00:20:28 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28082; Sat, 13 Jul 96 00:20:27 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id XAA19352; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:16:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA14251 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:14:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from value.net (root@value.net [204.188.125.5]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA14243 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:14:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [205.180.17.22] ([205.180.17.22]) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA18597 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:14:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199607130414.VAA18597@value.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 96 21:18:01 -0800 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "J.S. Kidd" To: Subject: Re: Engineering Question (Long!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 12 Jul 96 21:18:01 -0800 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "J.S. Kidd" To: Subject: Re: Engineering Question (Long!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN >I need advice concerning the way our engineer has our switcher setup. > >The output of our three studio cameras are feed first to a 1978 vintage 3M >Bridging Switcher. From this point the signals are diverted to the waveform >and vectorscope monitors. The signals then are looped through the bridging >switcher to camera monitors and looped through to the Grass Valley switcher. > >I contend this degrades the program out signals. Our engineer says >looping through these devices does not impair the signals. He has not tested >this theory, just pronounces it. > >Any advice would be welcome. > >steve williams ------------------- Okay, here goes... (deep breath) ...more than you ever wanted to know about loop-throughs and degradation! The supercilious answer: Yes, there is degradation. It's inevitable every time you add another connector or another inch of cable. Impedance mismatches in the equipment and cable connectors cause reflections of the video signal back down the cable (return loss), and the electrical characteristics of the cable cause loss of high frequency (chroma and fine detail) information (roll-off). Even a one-foot piece of cable with a connector on each end will show degradation if your instrumentation is sensitive enough. Fortunately, the human eye is VERY forgiving. The real question is, "Is there VISIBLE degradation?" The answer in this case is: "Maybe, maybe not." The practical answer: In fact, there is no way your question can be answered from the information given. It is entirely possible that with the right kind of cable, in short enough lengths, equipped with proper connectors that have been properly assembled, and connected to equipment with proper return loss values, you will not see any degradation at all. On the other hand, this sort of loop-through arrangement is a recipe for problems. The most common is when somebody bumps a termination switch and suddenly your video drops to half-level due to double-termination. The second most common is when a piece of equipment changes its input impedance when it is powered off. All of a sudden you notice your video doesn't look quite as good as you remember it did a little while ago. Then somebody unwittingly turns the offending gear back on, return loss goes back to spec, and the problem disappears. You blink and wonder if you were imagining things...until someone turns the unit off again. Proper engineering doctrine demands "source distribution amplifiers" (Source DAs) in sufficient quantity so that each piece of equipment that is connected to a given source is being fed directly from a Source DA output, without looping. The only loops permitted are DA-to-DA jumpers when more than one DA is needed to provide enough outputs. Most of us don't have deep enough pockets to follow that doctrine religiously, though. The objective engineering answer: The only way to answer your question is to set up a test. The rigorous way is to use test a signal generator and a scope, and it's really the ONLY way you can positively identify equipment-related degradation. These problems propagate throughout the loop-through chain, including back toward the source, so they show up EVERYWHERE you look in the chain. They include irregular frequency response, reflections, and other distortions caused by impedance/return loss problems. The subjective engineering answer: But you CAN test for cable-related degradation such as roll-off and color smearing using one high-quality monitor with A/B inputs and a cable. (Do not use two side-by-side monitors! If you do, you can't be sure that any "degradation" you see isn't just differences in monitor setup.) Follow the steps below, realizing that any visible changes caused by introducing the test monitor and cable invalidate the whole test. Step 1: Place the high-quality test monitor as close as possible to the source of the video signal. Step 2: Evaluate the video in the existing loop-through chain. Use the highest quality monitor and scopes you currently have in the chain. Remember what it looks like for future comparison. (The higher the quality of the monitoring you can do here, the more reliable this test will be.) Step 3: Break the chain at the source and insert the test monitor. Loop through the A input AND the B input. Use the shortest known-good cables you can. Step 4: Evaluate the video in the existing loop-through chain again. Use the same monitor and scopes you did in Step 2, and make sure that introducing the test monitor has caused no visible changes. Step 5: At the test monitor, compare the A and B inputs. They should be IDENTICAL (same signal, same monitor). If not, your monitor's input circuitry doesn't "qualify," and it won't work for this test. Step 6: Now that you've "qualified" your test monitor's inputs, replace the short jumper between the A and B inputs with the shortest possible "test cable" that is long enough to reach from the test monitor to the farthest point in the loop-through chain. (Use high-quality wire such as Belden 8281 or Belden 1505A to minimize loss.) Repeat Steps 4 and 5. If there are still no visible differences, you have "qualified" your test cable and you can continue. Step 7: Change the loop-through chain so it only goes through the test monitor's A input. Leave the test cable connected to the B input, and terminate it with an external high-precision commercial terminator. Repeat Step 4. If there is still no visible difference, you are ready to try and make a test. Step 8: Go to the end of the loop-through chain. Remove the terminator and replace it with your test cable. Repeat Step 4. If you see a change, it means the test monitor terminator differs from the one you removed. Since you put a high- precision terminator on the test monitor, the one you removed may have problems. Replace it with a high-precision terminator, remove the test monitor from the chain and restore the original connection to the video source, and start again from Step 2. (Sigh! Takes a LOT of work to eliminate all the possible variables, doesn't it!) Step 9: If you got past Step 8, you've finally managed to set up a valid test! Go to your test monitor and do an A/B comparison. If you see a difference, you know the following: A. It's not the test monitor A/B inputs (Step 5). B. It's not the test cable (Step 6). C. It's not the B input terminator (Step 8). Therefore it can only be degradation in the loop-through chain that has been introduced by cables and/or equipment between where it loops out of the A input (at the beginning of the chain) and returns to the B input (at the far end of the chain). Now that you have a test setup that you can have some confidence in, you can start moving the test cable back along the chain, breaking in at various points and looking for significant changes such as chroma or gain variations caused by an "active loop-through" of the type sometimes found on "pro-sumer" equipment. A significant improvement caused by breaking in on the "upstream" vs. the "downstream" side of a piece of equipment may indicate that it has problems (especially if it has a supposedly-passive loop-through), and it should be pulled out and tested rigorously with test signals and a scope. If all you get is a gradual improvement as you work your way back toward the source, it means you're looking at the cumulative attenuation and roll-off caused by all the equipment and cable in the chain, and there's little you can do about it. Move the most critical equipment as near to the source end of the chain as possible to minimize roll-off, and start saving up for DAs. --Joseph. S. Kidd jskidd@value.net  1,, Summary-line: 16-Jul Robert E Lamm #Re: Production monitor Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07629; Tue, 16 Jul 96 00:30:43 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13797; Tue, 16 Jul 96 00:30:42 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id XAA15665; Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:21:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA17151 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA17053 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:20:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA09105; Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21256; Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:19:50 -0400 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: OLSOL@aol.com Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Production monitor In-Reply-To: <960715230644_238527644@emout08.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: OLSOL@aol.com Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Production monitor In-Reply-To: <960715230644_238527644@emout08.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > This was a timely posting as I too am looking to upgrade my monitors. How do > you set up a monitor with a blue gun and SMPTE color bars? The secret is that every other color bar has blue in it, the others don't. First put your monitor in monochrome mode and adjust contrast and brightness so that all the individual shades are distinct. Some bars have a smaller stairstep in the lower right that's just beyound black range, the darker two should just melt into each other to indicate that you're at the end of your monitor's range. Then turn the color up and put your monitor in blue-gun only mode. As you increase color, you'll notice that blue will drop out of every other bar and the remaining ones in between will get brighter. Adjust the color saturation so that the blue bars are bright and the other ones are clear black. Adjusting hue will make them symmetrical. Some bars have complementary samples at the bottom of each color to make it easier to set this symmetry. Then turn the blue-gun off and most people think the color saturation is too high. That isn't so: Color bars are very saturated, artifically so in fact. Your monitor will now be properly adjusted. A couple of notes: There are black balance, white balance and gamma settings on monitors that can affect the color purity of the image. Different models will tend to look different no matter what. Don't sweat it: It's more important to be consistent than exact: Your viewers' sets will vary so much, exact colorimetry would be pointless. Incidentally, I agree that the JVC BM-H1300SU is a pretty decent monitor. It takes NTSC, PAL, composite, component, Y/C, has 750 lines of resolution, switchable comb/notch filter. But it costs about $1000/each. The TM-1400SU is cheaper (about $675), but isn't as sharp and doesn't take component or PAL. It does have pulse cross and blue gun, though. We sell both. -Bob Lamm CYNC Corp. Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership  1,, Summary-line: 17-Jul MoovyMagic@aol.com #Re: Small Business Marketing (Long--Darn near a book...) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20034; Wed, 17 Jul 96 11:00:00 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06357; Wed, 17 Jul 96 10:59:58 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA14477; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:49:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23992 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:47:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23979 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:47:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA12992 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:47:52 -0400 Message-Id: <960717104751_362529459@emout10.mail.aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:47:52 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Small Business Marketing (Long--Darn near a book...) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:47:52 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Small Business Marketing (Long--Darn near a book...) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Some thoughts I hope help... 1. See the difference betwen marketing and sales. Without over-drawing the subject, marketing may be seen as "strategic" or long term "presence" and "image" in the marketplace. Sales is the tactical act of actually meeting with a specific potential customer, and "closing" the deal. Whatever you do to get your name out there--pro bono, free psa production, giving seminars at ITVA, advertising of the usual kind, press releases, joining groups like chambers of commerce, hosting periodic parties at your facility, ----whatever; is marketing. It creates referrals---PROBABLY THE RICHEST SOURCE OF QUALITY SALES. Most referrals are indirect, and often, multi-stage. This is one argument for always treating people honestly and politely. Mud sticks---no matter who slings it, and no matter how undeserved it may be. People say, "consider the source"; but in reality they usually don't. So, even if you discover you're dealing with an abusive, cheapskate idiot, always maintain a calm, factual, and professional approach. (As you respectfully withdraw from the project, and leave him to his well-deserved fate.) Quality sales. This may seem semi-obvious, but as you consider this over the next few days and weeks, you will re-discover just how vital it is to success. Always conduct quality sales. A quality sale is a sale which: 1. Is a good product. (Maybe not the extreme of high-end quality, but certainly not low in quality.) 2. Is sold at the "right" price. (Not a high price, not a low price. A FAIR price to both parties) 3. Is a product understood by the buyer as much for what it is, as much as for what it is not. (Perhaps the most overlooked consideration. When your brilliant salesmanship has won the job, and the thrilled client expects the moon and the stars, and you can only deliver the moon and some of the stars in reality, he will be disappointed, and he will feel screwed.) Inform and educate as necessary so clients who may have little knowledge of TV understand the choices, and why you're doing what you are the way you are. if ANY of these three principles is missing in any sale, a very good chance of somebody feeling resentment now or later exists. It might be you--- if you low-ball something, and begin to hate the client as a pest, and drag your heels the eighth time he calls for that super-cheap quickie dub, for example. He'll feel your growing hostility, and he'll tell people you're bad-tempered. No positive referrals. Almost every time we've ever accidentally violated one of these principles, we've created a bad situation. I assure you, we feel so strongly about them that we never violate them knowingly. They work. They are absolutely necessary to getting good refferals. 2. Always be prepared to do pre-business. Have cards in your pocket--always. It may sound extreme, but I even have one or two at the beach. With me ON THE TOWEL. Talk to everybody. Even the garbage man. Even the waitress in the diner on the interstate. Don't be a pushy blowhard, but talk to everybody---no matter who. They think you're in a very glamorous business. Be cool: make humour---tell 'em about getting up at four a.m. and driving six hours to work sometimes. They'll laugh, but they'll remember you--and they'll be able to tell somebody else about you. Give 'em a card. Business cards are incredibly cheap---even nice ones---and they don't serve you on the shelf. Get 'em in circulation. You got a computer. Get a good laser printer and some card stock from Papers Direct. Make your own. Change 'em often as your business develops and evolves. Nobody cares about raised ink anymore. The data is all that matters. Practice being reasonably charming on the people you don't think can possibly do you any good, because they don't matter; and you'll rapidly discover two things. 1. Everybody matters. 2. Everybody knows a lot of somebodies---and the connections are often surprising. (For example, my nephew, Scott, knows Newt Gingrich on a first-name basis, and sees him to talk with him briefly every single day. Scott's a house page, and works in the well.... He's a kid. He's nobody.... My partner's fiance's friend works in the White House. Knew that creep Livingstone. Saw him every day.... She's a kid. She's nobody....) I always carry a VHS demo tape for giveaway and a "literature pack" in my car. Always. I'm never far from my car. So if a particular conversation seems to rate it, I go get the materials for the person I'm talking to. Yeah, Beta is better. But most civilians and their friends have VHS. And big shots have Beta and 3/4"---but they also always have The Standard Medium Of Exchange. VHS. Don't ask for tapes back. They're little Permanent Ambassadors. Let them work. (If you really "get it", you'll perceive that you now have an excuse to periodically call people and arrange to "update" your demo for them.) One item in my "lit-pack" is a bogus newsletter we write ourselves. We try to make it truly useful and informative, telling people things they didn't know about special effects; but what such newsletters really are is multi-page interesting ads. You're an expert. Write a newsletter. Keep it short. Mail it out to people you can identify that are in need of your services---whatever they are. Be sure to put "Newsletter" somewhere in the title. When mailed, don't put it in an envelope. Fold it title out. It won't get premptorily tossed. It'll get read. (What mental process do you go through when you sort your mail?) And if it isn't too very self-congratulatory, it will be saved for a little while. No plain ad lasts more than a few seconds. You're not an expert? Bull-roar. If true, go get a job at Mickey-D's, and get out of our business. Everybody's got unique expertise. Focus on and sell that. (Nobody else's got it, for one thing... Are you an avid scuba diver AND a DP?) 3. Learn to deal with rejection. (My own hardest lesson.) Don't over-analyize when you lose one. Don't feel too over-confident when you win one. One of my mentors said you never really know why you get 'em or lose 'em most of the time. Never mind. It ain't personal. The fit wasn't perfect. To hell with it. Soldier on. (To this day, I don't "accept" rejection. I reject it. I pity the poor fool who couldn't perceive the Great Deal I was about to deliver to Make His Life Perfect. Jerk. Maybe he'll be back.) And you know what? Often they do come back. After other people taught them painful and expensive lessons. Lincoln was right. Now you get to skim the cream, all prepared for you. Now you get to make a quality sale, and a loyal client who respects your expertise and class. (And a rich source of referrals.) That, my friends, is a sweet drink.... Think long term. Market with strategy, but sell tactically. It's a war out there, and the good guys win in the final reel---every damn time.... And I firmly believe ONLY the good guys win---long term. There's so much more... But I fear torpedoes from the "bandwidth-challenged". If I get more roses than brickbats from posting this epic, I'll send chapter two, "What--Specifically--Works For Us, And Why!" A parting thought: The most important single thing you do is sales. Without it---though you have the best equipment and personal skills on earth---you're broke, and outta business. Bill Barrett Special Effects Director Studio One Ridgefield, CT 1 - 888 - STUDIO - 1 (Toll Free) (1 - 888 - 788 - 3461 (For the touch-tone challenged.) (1 - 203 - 438 - 3117 For those with $$ to burn up.) MoovyMagic@aol.com "Where Progress Is Our Most Important Problem..." Ultimatte To Go, MicroCam & MicroJib, Motion Control, Engineered Props, Floor Effects, Mechanicals, and Other Neat Stuff. (But no car jumps, and no big pyro...) (Did you ever price the insurance for big pyro shoots?)  1,, Summary-line: 18-Jul MoovyMagic@aol.com #Marketing and Selling Your Tiny Company--Part Deauxe --(Even Longer)-- Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28320; Thu, 18 Jul 96 21:35:37 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23466; Thu, 18 Jul 96 21:35:36 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id UAA04004; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:32:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA15063 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:31:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA15056 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:31:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA04223 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 21:31:26 -0400 Message-Id: <960718213040_364318837@emout10.mail.aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 21:31:26 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Marketing and Selling Your Tiny Company--Part Deauxe --(Even Longer)-- X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 21:31:26 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Marketing and Selling Your Tiny Company--Part Deauxe --(Even Longer)-- X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN "Show Business Is, First, A Business." Giuseppe Fiorelli Director and Mentor I'd like to say I always take my own advice as effectively and energetically and perfectly as I should. But, I don't. And, most likely, neither will you. But for what they're worth----some additional thoughts. The original post asked for specific "things that work" for (us). So, here's what we do. Specifically. 1. We keep people aware that we exist by periodic postcard mailings. Why postcards? Think about how you sort your own incoming mail each day. In the act of classifying a post card as junk before tosssing it out---GOTCHA!---YOU HAD TO READ IT! (If it was brief and punchy.) Message delivered. People are very forgetful. You gotta give 'em a swift kick in the pants periodically. They'll literally forget you're alive. Nothing personal. They're just people. Everybody's busy... Everybody knows about Coke. They still advertise constantly. Like Coke does, change your message. We've never sent the same postcard to the same person twice. We rotate them constantly. Humour is best. People will look forward to your next one if it gives 'em a chuckle. Feature some new service or feature. (Or create one.) Shine the spotlight on an old reliable capability from a new angle. If you can't think of fresh ideas, start bringing your resume up to date and go get an honest job in CorporateWorld. YOUR BUSINESS IS MAKING FRESH IDEAS! Look at the stuff that tickles you. Find a derrivitave fresh idea all your own. People are bored by the usual pompous "digitalstateoftheartcomputerizednonlinearmultimedia" babble. Everybody's Digital. Everybody's State-of-the-Art. (For another week, anyway.) Everybody's got a Big Fast Computer. But nobody's got a YOU! No matter what is said or done, no matter what "boxes" anybody owns, the only real product is your skill and creativity----and to a slightly lesser extent, your special knowledge and interests and style. Highlight those in your postcards. Take risks. Not crazy risks, but push the edge a little. We all remember such people. They're colorful. (Colourful, in Canada.) They're fun. "Papers Direct" is a company that supplies a wide range of artsy pre-decorated paper stock for laser printers for letterhead (which we don't use), for business card stock (which we do use), and postcards---to name but a few. Get their catalog 1-800-A-PAPERS (800-272-7377). This will stimulate your "creative juice" production. Try this. It may sound silly, but you'll be amazed at the bang you get for the buck. Nobody needs a printshop anymore except for very special items. Buy a good laser printer. Color printers are still kinda slow; but plain old black ink on the colorful paper stocks will have a lot of impact. We've had a Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 4L for a couple of years now. It's always worked perfectly without incident. Don't scrimp on this. A crummy printer is its own punishment. Like Nike, a good one will, "Just do it." Postcards work. A closely related mail-based promotional is an "object mailing". An object mailing is a thing. A keeper. A calendar. A credit-card sized calculator with your logo on it. Baseball caps, coffee mugs---the list is endless. Obviously, this can get expensive if you send everybody Cross pens. So we make them highly selective. And we apply far more creativity than just sending calendars or some other crappy stupid little trinket. Recently, we sent out maybe 300 child's alphabet blocks---one to a name---in a small cardboard box. Each recipient was a writer or a "prime creative" type. There was no packing material. It rattled wonderfully, delightfully. Each one was painstakingly selected to be the recipient's last name initial. (Some even noticed, and got some extra value to the joke.) Inside was a short funny note that said in part, "This is no ordinary child's block you hold. This block has been treated here, at our Studio One Secret Mountain Laboratory, with an intense beam of special ionizing radiation, to grant this block the ability to absorb the dreaded "Sub-Atomic Block-A-Trons", which everybody knows are the actual source of writer's block. Keep it in your creative workspace, and it will recharge itself from exposure to light. DO NOT PUT IT IN A DRAWER OR OTHER DARK PLACE!" Over a year later, nearly everybody still has our block prominently placed on their desk. (It is their initial, after all. Would you throw it out?) Our logo is NOT on the item. They have memories. They know where it came from. People really got into it. I got more than a few fanciful replies---including one very complex corporate mail-room, x-ray, bomb squad, police department, nightmare, "so-I-got-fired" satire one. Great Stuff!! Soon, we'll be sending out some nice little doll-house furniture tables. The pitch will be about table-top photography.... The tables will cost us about a buck-fifty each. Are your hundred best clients worth a buck-fifty? Does anybody know where I can buy about a hundred small Alladin's Lamps at a reasonable price? 2. We seek and accept chances to give "dog and pony shows" whenever we can. Any kind of group that will have us, we'll put on an especially tailored and adjusted SHORT presentation. The audience will view you immediately as an acknowledged expert in your field. (Somebody "hired" you for this gig. Right?) I believe the most effective presentations start with showing the group some SHORT tape, with no intro, and then making a very few highly relevant comments before asking for questions from the floor. Involving your audience actively IMMEDIATELY galvanizes them. Keeps them alert and paying attention. Have the nerve to do this. It works. Let them guide the rest of the presentation by their questions. They will guide the discussion towards what they want to know. Plan on staying long after the meeting, seemingly puttering slowly while wrapping your gear. Be casual and approachable while you wrap. No rush. No intrusion. PUT DOWN your junk if somebody comes up to you. Signal him that he's more important than your efforts at wrapping. You're in no rush.... Remember, the giving of the presentation in the first place was "the presentation of the bait", The question time was "playing the lure" to make it live in the fish's mind, and the guy who buttonholes you after the meeting with his special question IS THE VERY REASON YOU CAME! One deft, small, snappy jerk on the line and you "boat" him. Set up a meeting at his place or yours tomorrow---don't let much time pass---and you'll get a contract. (99 times out of a hundred, his specific question is unimportant. HE JUST WANTS TO MEET YOU!) Screw wrapping your junk. Meet him. (Junque in Canada.) Part of the value of SHORT presentations is that they leave plenty of time for questions, and plently of time to meet the fish. I always admit to a group at the very beginning that I don't speak to groups very often, and to please bear with me if I seem a bit nervous. Then I remind myself to breathe regularly. This takes the pressure off me to be The Great Professor Harold Hill. I can just be plain old imperfect awkward me. I work from BRIEF 3x5 card shirt pocket notes. Never more than one card. You didn't come to read aloud a paper to them..... Ask them leading questions. Involve them. I move around the room. NEVER allow yourself to get planted behind a lecturn. Let the other stiffs use it. You are the communications expert. You get personally in touch with your audience. Get close. Watch Phil Donahue or Bill Clinton do this. It's such a transparent gimmick. But it works. If you need a mike, the group is too big. Speak up, and you'll be all right ---except in the very biggest of rooms. (Me, I've never been called on to do a really big room. I'd probably turn it down.) With a too-big group you'll get mobbed at the end, and nobody will get quality time to schmooze. We've given lots of these things over the years. I don't remember one EVER where a client didn't result---not just a job, a client. Many jobs over time. They never happened immediately. But at some point, every single dog and pony show has paid off handsomely. 3. Teach a small, semi-private seminar. I never learn so much about a subject as when I prepare to teach something about it to others. Something like, "Developing Effective Use Of Advanced Video Production Methods In Improving High Technology Product Sales". Position it to inform National Sales Managers as to how they can flog the hell out of their existing video supplier to do better work. It might occur to them that maybe they should give you a shot at bidding on their next one----right along with their existing supplier. Or, better still, it may spontaneously occur to him that maybe you should help them develop the show's script. The seminar must have plenty of "insider" real, and useable, content. It must be truly valuable. It may cause your friendly competitors some small distress. Sorry. Nothing personal. Just solid, truthful content. Be open. Suggest a seminar title they might teach..... 4. DON'T MARKET OR SELL TO YOUR COMPETITION! By all means take small "institutional" ads in your local newsletters, and support your local professional groups with membership and personal time and effort for the greater good. This benefits everybody. But as far as your specific business activities are concerned, stay at periscope depth, rigged for silent running as far as telling all your competitors what you're up to. Let 'em find out when they lose a bid to you. Skip submitting to the "NewsyTidBits" column in that pro group newsletter. Often, your arch-competition will show up suddenly in your most prized client's outer office. (Although this should never be a real problem. You're taking such good care of that client (see: "Quality Sales") that there is literally no crack wide enough for them to get through except by super cut rates. Right?) Don't be paranoid. Do be discrete. 4. Retain your clients. It has been truly observed that American firms in general are not good at this. Ours is. We contact old clients to see if that show we did a year ago is still current and useful. Yes? Good. We always want to be sure our work serves your needs over the long haul. No? Need an update? Product now obsolete? Need a new program? Excellent! Will Tuesday be OK for a preliminary meeting to discuss your needs? We call this "program maintenence". Stay in touch. This is yet another good reason to give a client your best work and a square count the first time around.... Virtually all our clients are repeat clients. Again, and again, and again.... We also pro-actively "develop" clients. I love it when first-timer conversations begin with a sheepish, "I don't have much of a budget, but...". We try like hell to find a way to do their job decently for their stated budget. Over time, we develop their tastes and budgets step by step. We educate them, and bring them along as far as they want to go. They may have an affair from time to time for one reason or another; but if you're delivering true value, and have made repeated Quality Sales, they'll be back. Client Development, and Client Retention are foundationstones. 5. Focus and direct all your efforts squarely on your end-user market. Think out the issues, and be sure you understand who your clients really are, and that will almost always tell you how to find them. Don't be distracted by side issues. 6. It may work to do trade shows as an exhibitor. Even if the trade show is about a different field than video production. Especially if the trade show is about something else. You'll be the only one. Think of all the other exhibitors as the potential new clients. The show's "public" attendees are a bonus. I say, "It may work..." because we haven't actually done this yet. Not every trade show will tolerate unrelated businesses. I suggest you point out to the show's management that, "of course we belong here. Look. This TV program we did is exactly in this field. And this one, and this one.... We are support suppliers to this entire special marketplace!" I don't know. Maybe it'll work. I'll let you know.... We plan a nice, low key, very professional booth. Two different endless tapes of maybe three minutes on monitors perched atop four-foot greek columns (from the set shop). Sound not too important. A nice background made from blow-ups of program still frames, and some "behind the scenes in Hollywood" production candid stills blow-ups. A side literature table with maybe some "tricks of the trade" display items. At stage center, a low, small coffee table with four bright red director's chairs. Some literature. No piles. Some VHS reels and special Lit-Paks to give to the Truly Interested. Relaxed. Open and walk-through. No "them-and-us" counter top barrier. Come in. Rest your show-weary feet for a minute. We won't bite..... Maybe we'll have coffee and fig newtons if the show would allow it.... Finally: Marketing is strategic. Marketing is the war. Selling is tactical. Selling is the battle. You can afford to lose a few sales. Especially if you lose them for the right reasons. (Like some jerk super-low-balled a bid. Fine. He knows what his work's worth.) You can't afford to lose in your marketing plan. That's the whole damn war. Bill Barrett Special Effects Director Studio One Ridgefield, CT 1 - 888 - STUDIO - 1 (Toll Free) (1 - 888 - 788 - 3461 For the touch-tone challenged.) (1 - 203 - 438 - 3117 For those with $$ to burn up.) MoovyMagic@aol.com "Where Progress Is Our Most Important Problem..." Ultimatte To Go, MicroCam & MicroJib, Motion Control, Engineered Props, Floor Effects, Mechanicals, and Other Neat Stuff. (But no car jumps, and no big pyro...) (Did you ever price the insurance for big pyro shoots?) P.S. If my colorful candid language has caused you to think I am cynical and predatory with respect to my clients, you have missed the point. Nothing could be further from the truth. My clients are my livelihood, and my greatest enjoyment. We have nice relationships based on honestly and education and mutual hard work to design and execute good shows. We have great fun. (In Canada, please substitute the term "colourful" above, as needed for comprehension....) END  1,, Summary-line: 19-Jul Yankvideo@aol.com #Re: Marketing Your Business - Also Long Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23596; Fri, 19 Jul 96 07:21:27 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10082; Fri, 19 Jul 96 07:21:26 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id GAA20322; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 06:17:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA25794 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 06:16:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA25787 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 06:16:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA29259 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 07:16:46 -0400 Message-Id: <960719071644_364671320@emout17.mail.aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 07:16:46 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Yankvideo@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Marketing Your Business - Also Long X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 07:16:46 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Yankvideo@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Marketing Your Business - Also Long X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN I've followed this thread with great interest, loved Part One, and have a few contributions of my own, if you don't mind. The dictionary defines marketing as "The conditions or opportunity for selling." But --If you've heard me speak before about makin' more video bucks, or you've seen any of my tapes, you know that I think the word "marketing" is a scary word. Somehow it sounds ominous...extremely difficult and metaphysically complicated --sort of like turning water into wine --or even wine into safe drinking water. Have you ever tried to improve your business by picking up a few books on marketing? You get books like "An Integrated Framework for Marketing Success," or "The Duodonal Effect of Reader Demographics Vis-a-Vis the Direct Marketing Approach..." I don't know about you but I don't want an integrated framework for marketing services! I want to know --right now --what I have to do to sell more video services and make more money doing it! So: what IS marketing? Strip away all the tired cliches and the academic theory and it comes down to this: Marketing is....finding who will buy your video services, and then, selling your video services to them. That's it, pure and simple. The rest of that marketing terminology --awareness, perception, attitude surveys, demographic infrastructure, dialog-in-depth, product parity and all that other stuff --is just plain foo-foo. "Marketing is finding out who will buy your video services, and then, selling your video services to them." If you have trouble "marketing" your video business, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I've dealt with lots of video pros all over the world with the same problem...people whose marketing isn't working. They're not getting connected to prospects and transforming them into buyers. They're not getting their current clients to buy from them again. They're spending big money on advertising and not getting any meaningful return from their investment. Many of them are worried sick that they'll have to sell that hard-earned equipment to their competitors and take a sales job somewhere because their video business just ain't happening, baby. What's wrong? They haven't mastered the TWO essential points of success, which are, quite simply, number one: getting connected to new prospects and turning them into buyers. And, number two, getting their current clients to come back and buy from them again and again. Now THAT'S marketing, remember? That's also success! If you can solve these two problems, your business will be the success you want it to be and, as a result, you will derive the lifestyle you want from your business. That's the benefit of mastering marketing. Here are a couple of steps you can take to make more money in your video business. 1/ you must know to WHOM you're marketing. The successful videographers you know --or the ones you've heard about --have a secret that you might not know; a secret that makes them successful. Here it is: successful videogaphers can tell you precisely who they're marketing to. They can tell you specific information about their prospects --where they live, their age, their sex, their educational and income levels, their expectations, and other helpful information. Marketing success starts with an exact answer to the question "WHO?" If you don't know who you're supposed to be selling to, you're going to have to know. 2/ you must know WHY your customers buy. Knowing who you're marketing to is the start of your marketing success. Knowing WHY they buy is also essential. These reasons involve benefits --things we call "ultimate benefits" like the prospect's desire for friends, security, prestige, freedom, time, money and so forth...and they also include things like "less expensive, faster, more organized, closer," and so forth. Your job is to find out what your prospects want to achieve and show them how your services enable them to achieve the benefits they want. If you're doing legal videos, you've got to convince the attorneys that you can tape their depositions "less expensive, more organized," and give them the benefits of "prestige," say, because you're a prestigeous firm...that sort of thing. 3/ you must be client-centered. Too many people in business focus on themselves, on what they're selling -and NOT on the prospect and why he or she is buying. Look in the Yellow Pages under video production sometime! People wasting money taking out big, expensive ads with voodoo words: "Beta SP A/B Roll Production With DVE, Chyron, AVID...We use ONLY Thunderbolt Z-28 12-chip Cameras...Hah! What a waste! They know far more about their own capabilities than they do about what their clients want! The rule is "Know Your Client." Know WHO they are; know WHAT their problems are; know WHAT they want to accomplish; and WHY they want to do it; know WHEN they want to accomplish something, and then...show them how they can get exactly what they want with what you're selling! And finally (at least for now) here's 5/you MUST remain persistent! Most people expect too much from one single marketing action. A single classified ad, a single news release published, a single direct mailing send out, a single favorable mention in a magazine. It is a serious mistake to expect too much; one action will not ordinarily provide fantastic results, so you shouldn't expect it to --or be too disappointed when it doesn't. Marketing your business is NOT a sport for the impatient; you must work on it daily, a little bit at a time. Steve Yankee STEVE YANKEE COMMUNICATIONS (Formerly Skyward Productions, Inc.)  1,, Summary-line: 28-Jul MoovyMagic@aol.com #Gelling Windows Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25315; Sun, 28 Jul 96 21:23:15 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04167; Sun, 28 Jul 96 21:23:14 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id UAA13478; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 20:19:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA02221 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 20:18:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com (emout08.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.23]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02202 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 20:18:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA22315; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 21:19:29 -0400 Message-Id: <960728211928_247670295@emout08.mail.aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 21:19:29 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: hanes@sympatico.ca (hanes), vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Gelling Windows X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 21:19:29 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: hanes@sympatico.ca (hanes), vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Gelling Windows X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Miike (The Kid) One good way to do this is to make some lightweight wood frames of common window sizes. Something like 1x1 is enough. Run a small bead of RTV type silicone sealant (often sold as bathtub caulking) around the face of the frame, place a piece of gel on the frame gently squishing the RTV, and then nail a flat 1"-wide wood batten over that---making a kind of sandwich. The finished assembly will sort of resemble a removable window screen. We have quite a few different sizes all made up. The gel is often called "85" or "85 ND 3" or "85 ND 6". The "85" part describes the tint--a sort of orange, and the "ND" refers to a neutral density absorber--to reduce light intensity passing through. Each "3" is one full f-stop. So, ND 3 is one stop, ND 6 is two f-stops, and ND 9 is three f-stops. The "85" color will absorb much of the outdoor solar blue, balancing daylight to match more closely your 3200 degree kelvin stage lights. Then whether you use 3, 6, or 9 ND is determined by how much you need to reduce the light intensity to balance. In the bad old days we used to gaffer tape the 85 right to the window opening. This has several disadvantages. First, the gel is easy to tear. And, while not terribly expensive, why waste it needlessly while removing it to re-use it. The frames will mean you won't tear it. Secondly, simply placing a frame with gel over the window takes less time than trimming and fussing with tape. You can put the gel frame on either the outside or the inside--whichever is more convenient. Thirdly, the gel on a frame will be stretched tight, and if you have to put it outside, it will flap in the wind less. Roscoe in White plains sells the stuff, as well as Barbizon in New York and in Boston. Any good video and stage lighting supplier will have it. Ask Roscoe for their catalog and their "Safari Survival Kit"---it has a lot of really great tips in it. Enjoy bb s1 2" (God, I love it!)  1,, Summary-line: 29-Jul Freelancr@aol.com #Re: Gelling Windows/lighting 101 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16572; Mon, 29 Jul 96 06:37:19 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09405; Mon, 29 Jul 96 06:37:18 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id FAA27197; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 05:33:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA27198 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 05:32:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA27190 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 05:32:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA19990 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 06:34:02 -0400 Message-Id: <960729063402_372118358@emout16.mail.aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 06:34:02 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Freelancr@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Gelling Windows/lighting 101 X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 06:34:02 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Freelancr@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Gelling Windows/lighting 101 X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Ok..here's the poop from the Gaffer (If you have to ask what a Gaffer is then you must go back to film school, without passing go.) Paul & BB were right...sort of. You have several options, any of which will work. 1) Balance to the light from the windows, then fill in with tungsten/quartz lights (which will seem VERY warm) 2) Balance to the quartz lights, & leght the windows go blue. (It works, & can be cool, but overwhelming if most of your light is coming from the windows) NOTE: unless you're using a paintbox/ccu, you need to try and white balance to ONE type of light. ie: close the windows & hit it with a light, or turn off the lights and w/b from light from a window. Ok, you want to use the windows the windows, here's how: 3) match the light coming in from the windows by using HMI's, these are efficent, high output units that burn & emit light at the same color tempature as daylight (with some fariations, but close enough). These are found in sizes 200w (as a sungun), 575 (par or fresnel), 1200 (par or fresnel), 2500 (par or fresnel), 4k (par or fresnel), 6k (par or fresnel), ,12k(Fresnel only), & 18k (Fresnel only). pars are more intense as Fresnels, so a 6k PAR is as good as 12k Fresnel for some applications. (The only problem is that sometimes people aren't careful, and can burn a house down trying to bounce one of these suckers into the ceiling!) 4) match the light coming in from the windows by using tungsten units, gelled to match the windows. The gel you are going to use is indeed blue, and is called CTB for COLOR TEMPERATURE BLUE. it comes in different densitys, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 & full. Depending on the size of the light you're using & how much daylight you're trying to cover, you use whatever density is necessary. As a rule, I almost never use full, for 2 reasons. 1) half is usually enough for video, and 2) the density is so much that it takes almost 2 stops out of the light, and that kinda sucks. Remember, you can double (or triple, or what ever) a piece of 1/4 CTB, but you can't lessen a hunk of full...so think about that when ordering your gel. NOTE: A GOODLY SELECTION OF 1/4 and 1/2 CTB SOULD BE A INTEGRAL PART OF ANY LIGHTING KIT!!! 5) Match the windows to the tungsten/quartz units. The least desireable option because it's a pain in the ass. The frame gag for gelling windows is fine, except for when you realize that the chances of shooting in two locations that have the same size windows are slim & none, so you now have frames that show up in the middle of the window frame. The gel to use for this less-than-desirable-option is called CTO (COLOR TEMPERATURE ORANGE, also in the same sizes, often called 85 [namely by LEE, a hold over from the camera filter of the same name], and yes it comes in an option with ND mixed in). It changes the color temp of light when it is 5500k or so (daylight or HMI's) to something approximating tungsten (3200k). You can cover all the windows affecting the shot by taping the gel (it comes in 4' wide rolls) to the windows (watch for dem wrinkles!) or better yet, get a squegee from the guy on the corner & a spray bottle, shpritz the glass & squegee on on the gel. This is the choice way to do it cuz it's easier to keep wrinkles out. better yet...see option number 1! nowthen, something else to think about, that's FLOURCENT lights. Normal, everday ones, burn kinda green, and you have the same options as with daylight except you would use PLUS or MINUS GREEN. You can gell all the flos with MINUSGREEN (in whatever need density) to get to tungsten, or match the tungsten lights with PLUS GREEN to match & use the flos. the general rule is, gel the SMALLEST NUMBER off-color light source(es), ie: if it's a supermarket with a bunch of flos, I'd rather match my tungsten lights to the flos than visa versa... and a final note on NEUTRAL DENSITY filters: This filter/gel DOES NOT change the color temperature of light (get it, neutral?) It simply cuts it down, like a dimmer ('cept a dimmer DOES change the color temp, but that's another story). It comes in .3, .6, .9 & 1.2 densities (also, check out rosco scrim, a mesh like stuff like the steel you use in a light, but on a roll, and nice to use). ND is used, for example, when you need to use a window in a shot, and can't bring up the INSIDE light level so that when you expose for the window the inside isn't mud Conversley, when you try to expose for the INSIDE & the window blows out, you ND it and bring it down so that you can actually see detail outside the window. Get it? Gel runs about $100-$120 a roll, HMI's ARE pricey but OHHHH so nice (the Arri 2500/4k switchable PAR that I lust for is about $13 000, and rents for $300 A DAY in NY. They also require a ballast to supply the intense power needed to spark the light. And a quickie safety note on HMI's-NEVBER USE THEM WITHOUT A LENS!!! They put out UV light as well, and the lenses are coated to filter it out. Also when the lamps blow (not often, but it do happen) the lens will prevent shrapnel. whew!...thus endeth the lesson off to paint with light- Mike the Gaffer -------------------------------------- Michael Sime Video Schmideo! -------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- It's not the time it takes to take the takes, it's the time it takes BETWEEN the takes, that takes the time to take the takes. --------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 9-Aug EARS4U@aol.com #Re: shut up and Nudity Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29566; Fri, 9 Aug 96 16:04:03 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20317; Fri, 9 Aug 96 16:04:02 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id OAA01518; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:56:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA03161 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:54:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03140 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:54:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA25073 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:55:56 -0400 Message-Id: <960809155555_255975628@emout15.mail.aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:55:56 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: EARS4U@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: shut up and Nudity X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:55:56 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: EARS4U@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: shut up and Nudity X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN . >Duck Bob!!! > >Come on folks, I have little enough time as it is to check my email. Lets >keep these discussions pertinent to video and video issues. Let's limit the >commentary, the diatribes, etc. It's unfair to those of us that can not >afford the time to go through 60 email messages every morning when only two >or three seem to be of any interest or help. > >Bruce Kaufmann >Professional Products Hey Bruce.. put my vote on your list.... Barry Parquette Wantabe Videoco Productions EARS4U.aol.com EQUIPMENT ACQUISITION & RESOURCE SERVICES 1-603 673-9490 FAX 5945  1,, Summary-line: 11-Aug MoovyMagic@aol.com #Re: Bogus Film "Appearance" Treatment Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18492; Sun, 11 Aug 96 11:28:57 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09836; Sun, 11 Aug 96 11:28:56 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id KAA16975; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 10:22:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA25058 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 10:19:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25054 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 10:19:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA05085 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:21:38 -0400 Message-Id: <960811112138_176320810@emout12.mail.aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:21:38 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Bogus Film "Appearance" Treatment X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:21:38 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Bogus Film "Appearance" Treatment X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN We sometimes do a process here that simulates "...that ineffable, mystical, veil of the beauteous look of film..." to a small degree. We use this on cheap commercials sometimes to jazz them up a bit. I don't defend this, I don't claim it looks all that excellent, so please everybody--don't pile on and tell me how poor a compromise this is, and how this or that box, service, or process is so much better. I know. I agree. They are. All I'm claiming is, this bogus cheapskate effect sorta works; and would be useful to those with simple gear on a certain budget. OK? Ok. 1. If possible, run the show through a TBC or mixer-based strobing effect set to 30 frames. This will simulate an effect like the 24 frames a second of film. Some devices interpolate between field one and field two, some merely repeat filed one as field two. You may get some jaggies on the latter systems, but unless you're looking at hard-edge graphics it'll be acceptable. 2. Increase the color saturation on your proc amp as much as she'll take and stay to legal colors on your scope. Don't have a scope? Get one. You really can't do tricks---or even be sure you're normally technically ok without one. 3. Make sure the "ped" or "setup" or "black" in your scene is set as low as legal. This will give the frame some extra of what photographers call "snap" in the picture. Contrast. 4. Set up a TV set on an absolutely blank empty channel. No residual ghostly frame edges, no rollers, no nothing. Just absolutely random pure snow. Set up a TV camera looking full frame at that TV set. Be sure you adjust to a slightly soft focus for two reasons. One, to reduce or eliminate any line moire. And, two, to make the effect more subtle. Run this camera to your switcher and do maybe a 5% blend of this channel into the mix to eye. Keep it very, very subtle. This simulates film grain. (You can record this effect to use again without all the hassle if you have an A / B roll edit system.) I have been told this works very poorly in digital systems. The 100% difference between each random noise frame makes compression algorythms explode in flames, with digits running all over the floor, making a terrible stain on the rug..... Personally, I don't know. Try it. As Marshal McCloud used to say, "There 'ya go..." Bill Barrett Studio One Ridgefield, CT  1,, Summary-line: 13-Aug Daniel P Kamalic #Datawocky Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24210; Tue, 13 Aug 96 00:53:51 EDT Received: from RINGWORLD.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16379; Tue, 13 Aug 96 00:53:49 EDT Received: (from pocky@localhost) by ringworld.MIT.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.11) id AAA04147; Tue, 13 Aug 1996 00:53:48 -0400 From: Daniel P Kamalic Message-Id: <199608130453.AAA04147@ringworld.MIT.EDU> To: gsp-discuss@MIT.EDU Subject: Datawocky Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 00:53:47 EDT *** EOOH *** From: Daniel P Kamalic To: gsp-discuss@MIT.EDU Subject: Datawocky Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 00:53:47 EDT The following was prompted by Johanna's recent post of the nerdly Major General parody. I'm not sure whether this was also posted back when we were on the Jabberwocky thread. The first time I saw it, it was a handout from my AP Pascal teacher in high school. Enjoy. DATAWOCKY 'Twas global and the megabytes Did gyre and gimbal on the disk All memsy were the prompts and codes And the software was brisk Beware the microchip my son The bits, the bytes and bauds and such Beware the CRT and shun The qwerty keyboard's clutch He took his self-pace book in hand Long time the menu key he sought Then wrestled he with the toaster drive And sat awhile in thought Then as he sought that glitchy bug The microchip, with gates aflame, Came whiffling through its I/O plug And processed as it came Asynch, Bisynch, all protocals, His binary went snicker snack He felt it crash, and with a dash He came galumphing back And didst thou tame the microchip Come interface my beamish boy O frabjous day, Caloo! Callay! O database, O Joy 'Twas global and the megabytes Did gyre and gimbal on the disk All memsy were the prompts and codes And the software was brisk. (With due apologies to Lewis Carroll and Alice Liddell)  1,, Summary-line: 16-Aug Robert E Lamm #Re: Broadcast Quality Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06139; Fri, 16 Aug 96 13:03:59 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26614; Fri, 16 Aug 96 13:03:57 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA27677; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:00:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13360 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:59:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13338 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:59:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA05217; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24787; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:58:36 -0400 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: reynolds@macalester.edu Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Broadcast Quality Reply In-Reply-To: <01I8C8KAZI7E005YQC@macalester.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: reynolds@macalester.edu Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Broadcast Quality Reply In-Reply-To: <01I8C8KAZI7E005YQC@macalester.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > Here are some of the technical specifications required by most national > broadcast networks: Peak luminance 100 IRE; Peak title luminance 90 > IRE; Peak chrominance 110 IRE; H. blanking 10.9 uSec (nominal); V. > blanking 21 lines. Front porch and back porch and all that other stuff > also comes into play... All these levels are adjustable in a TBC when you make copies or when a tape is aired. Blanking lengths are automaticaly cut to size in the TBC too if they're too short, longer blanking times can be shrunk if you put the video thorugh a DVE and increase the size slightly. > This doesn't say anything about the number of lines, so I can't help > there. The 21-line blanking requirement sets this: 525-21-21=483. There are very, very few videotapes that can't be made 'broadcast legal' in a quality duplication house or with a little processing at a post house. -Bob Lamm CYNC Corp. Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership  1,, Summary-line: 17-Aug Robert E Lamm #Re: Interns: Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26539; Sat, 17 Aug 96 02:45:40 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29203; Sat, 17 Aug 96 02:45:39 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id BAA07137; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 01:40:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA24491 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 01:38:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA24485 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 01:38:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id CAA06214; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 02:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09605; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 02:37:50 -0400 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 02:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: OLSOL@aol.com Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Interns: In-Reply-To: <960816205808_503208674@emout16.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 02:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: OLSOL@aol.com Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Interns: In-Reply-To: <960816205808_503208674@emout16.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > I am one of those non-college folks who would benefit greatly from internship > programs like your talking about. My biggest frustration is in a lack of > opportunities to learn. I have been working alone in my previous working > incarnation and am still in my video incarnation. As a newbie to video > production, editing (my main passion), etc., it is hard to find a way to gain > experience. You're lucky! Most post-college people looking to learn about video can't take enough time off of work to be an intern somewhere. But you can still learn from the pros at places like Film/Video Arts in New York or the Boston Film/Video Foundation. They sponsor short classes that are usually taught by a professional (sometimes a name) in the field who is hired for a day or two to explain what he does, and often takes place at the place where he works so he can demonstrate on the gear he uses. Here in Boston, a lot of the students are people already in the biz who are looking to learn more about the newer technologies, so it's interesting to compare notes with them... Film/Video Arts, 817 B'way (at 10th), 212-673-9361 BF/VF, 1126 Boylston St. (near the Pru), bfvf@aol.com (BF/VF is closed for the summer, send e-mail to contact them.) -Bob Lamm CYNC Corp. Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership  1,, Summary-line: 19-Aug Ruth Jedlinsky #Re: you forgot me! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19983; Mon, 19 Aug 96 13:59:54 EDT Received: from dimins.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04151; Mon, 19 Aug 96 13:59:52 EDT Received: (from mail@localhost) by wally.dimins.com (8.7.4/8.7.1) id OAA03111 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:00:10 -0400 Received: from dizzy-devil(204.215.187.16) by wally via smap (V1.3) id sma003102; Mon Aug 19 13:59:52 1996 X-Sender: rls@webster.dimins.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:59:04 -0400 To: opus@MIT.EDU From: rls@dimins.com (Ruth Jedlinsky) Subject: Re: you forgot me! *** EOOH *** X-Sender: rls@webster.dimins.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:59:04 -0400 To: opus@MIT.EDU From: rls@dimins.com (Ruth Jedlinsky) Subject: Re: you forgot me! >X-POP3-Rcpt: rls@webster >Sender: speters@blues.cygnus.com >To: rls@dimins.com (Ruth Jedlinsky) >Cc: mlpeters@sdgnet.com >Subject: Re: you forgot me! >From: Stephen Peters >Date: 19 Aug 1996 10:29:01 -0700 >Lines: 50 > >rls@dimins.com (Ruth Jedlinsky) writes: > >> I was joking, I don't feel slighted about not getting your email >> because Dave does forward me stuff like that. Also, lots of people >> working for DI and Cygnus were only sipb prospectives, never >> actually members so you would fit the definition of "sipb-related". > >Cool. I'm actually glad to be known as SIPB-related. I like that. > >> I heard from Rocky that Forum is fantastic and so is Nathan Lane. > >It is indeed a fantastic production of the show. Plus, Mark >Linn-Baker played the part I did, and I do enjoy Mark Linn-Baker. > >> He saw it a few months back. Dave and I put a CD on in the car on >> our way to NY. It was Guys and Dolls. We decided we liked the >> music when we saw MTG do it a few years back. Anyway, I asked who >> was playing Nathan Detroit. Turns out it was Nathan Lane. He did a >> great job in that show too. > >Yup. And I believe Ernie Sabella (the voice of `Pumba' in Lion King, >and now `Lycus' in Forum) was Nicely-Nicely Johnson in that one, >right? > >> So how'd the reunion go and do I know anyone else who was there? > >Well, you know Derek, and you might remember Terry Alkasab from the >day or two he actually worked for LSC. Other people who you may or >may not know were Lynn Niles, Erik Schwartz (though he's old, like >class of '89), and Kimmerie Jones, now known as Kimmerie Jones >Schwartz (a marriage that MTG is still trying to figure out -- to >quote Derek, "so, Kimmerie, how the hell did that happen?") > >Reunion went very well. ML and I also turned it into a >theatre-hopping trip, so the next day we took in a matinee of Smokey >Joe's Cafe (a revue of the songs of Lieber and Stoller, who penned >"Hound Dog", "On Broadway", "Spanish Harlem", "Love Potion No. 9" and >lots of other great songs), and then saw Rent (best musical of 1996) >with its original cast. Very cool show. > >(This is in stark contrast to a quasi-live production of "Beauty and >the Beast" they were showing down at Disney/MGM studios Saturday. All >actors except Belle and Gaston were pre-recorded, Belle had the most >obnoxious tendency to sing through her nose, Chip missed an entrance >(and the recording naturally kept playing his lines), and the lighting >design can best be described as "constantly magenta, with occasional >excursions into pink.") > >-- >Stephen Peters speters@cygnus.com > Ruth Jedlinsky Dimensional Insight, Inc. Voice: (617) 229-9111 111 South Bedford Street Fax: (617) 229-9113 Burlington, MA 01803  1,, Summary-line: 19-Aug Judith Weis #[fli@nsf.gov: Total Quality Management Questionnaire] Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06770; Mon, 19 Aug 96 18:26:59 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25187; Mon, 19 Aug 96 18:26:58 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA29552; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:22:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:22:21 -0400 Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Judith Weis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [fli@nsf.gov: Total Quality Management Questionnaire] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:22:21 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Judith Weis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [fli@nsf.gov: Total Quality Management Questionnaire] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I'm forwarding a note from a friend of mine which includes one item of directG&S relevance, and another part that is a witty Gilbertian send-up of US Govt. policies. Hope you all enjoy it. --------------- Received: from amber.nsf.gov (amber.nsf.gov [128.150.195.87]) by andromeda.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA27825 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:02:10 -0400 From: fli@nsf.gov Received: from x2relay.nsf.gov (x2relay.nsf.gov [128.150.195.90]) by amber.nsf.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29444 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by x2relay.nsf.gov (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA840470510; Mon, 19 Aug 96 09:00:52 EST Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 09:00:52 EST Message-Id: <9607198404.AA840470510@x2relay.nsf.gov> To: jweis@andromeda.rutgers.edu Subject: Total Quality Management Questionnaire Judy: Thought you might enjoy this. Customer service is a big buzzword throughout government, at the moment. We saw a production of Mikado at the Folger yesterday that was set in Scotland, with Queen Victoria instead of the Mikado, and Ko Ko in a kilt. It actually worked quite well. Very funny. I'm sending you the program by post; it runs through Sept. 8. If you are coming down before then, it would be a chance to see something unusual. Love, Li ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Total Quality Management Questionnaire Author: wblanpie at nsf9 Date: 8/15/96 7:23 PM GOD'S TOTAL QUALITY MANAGEMENT QUESTIONNAIRE God would like to thank you for your belief and patronage. In order to better serve your needs, He asks that you take a few moments to answer the following questions. Please keep in mind that your responses will be kept completely confidential, and that you need not disclose your name or address unless you prefer a direct response to comments or suggestions. 1. How did you find out about God? __ Newspaper __ Other Book __ Television __ Divine Inspiration __ Word of mouth __ Near Death Experience __ Bible __ Torah __ Other (specify): _____________ 2. Are you currently using any other source of inspiration in addition to God? Please check all that apply. __ Tarot __ Lottery __ Horoscope _ Television __ Fortune cookies __ Sex __ Ann Landers __ Self-help books __ Biorhythms __ Insurance policies __ Alcohol or drugs __ Mantras __ Other: __ None 3. God employs a limited degree of Divine Intervention to preserve the balanced level of felt presence and blind faith. Which would you prefer (circle one)? a. More Divine Intervention b. Less Divine Intervention c. Current level of Divine Intervention is just right d. Don't know - Need better information 4. God also attempts to maintain a balanced level of disasters and miracles. Please rate on a scale of 1 - 5 his handling of the following (1=unsatisfactory, 5=excellent): a. Disasters (flood, famine, earthquake, war) 1 2 3 4 5 b. Miracles (rescues, spontaneous remission of disease, sports upsets) 1 2 3 4 5 5. Do you have any additional comments or suggestions for improving the quality of God's services? (Attach an additional sheet if necessary): _________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ Thank you! 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, and pollution. \ \ \ \ \ - - _ - \ \ \ \ ----\ - _ - \ - - ( O \ _ - -_ __ / - - / -/// _ ______ ___/ /// / Judith S. Weis Department of Biological Sciences Rutgers Univ. Newark NJ 07102 jweis@andromeda.rutgers.edu  1,, Summary-line: 28-Aug NeXTmusic #NeXTmusic #941 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14027; Wed, 28 Aug 96 12:42:37 EDT Received: from quip.eecs.umich.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06444; Wed, 28 Aug 96 12:42:31 EDT Received: (from mrozek@localhost) by quip.eecs.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA05906 for opus@athena.mit.edu; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: NeXTmusic Message-Id: <199608281642.MAA05906@quip.eecs.umich.edu> To: opus@MIT.EDU Reply-To: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Errors-To: nextmusic-request@eecs.umich.edu Subject: NeXTmusic #941 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: NeXTmusic To: opus@MIT.EDU Reply-To: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Subject: NeXTmusic #941 NeXTmusic Digest #941 Wed 28 Aug 1996 Forum for music and DSP related topics in the world of NeXTStep. Eric M. Mrozek, NeXTmusic administrator Contents: ## VRML generation to Symbolic Composer ## (Peter Stone) IRCAM Multimedia Library on the Web in French and English (Michel Fingerhut) Music Kit news (David A. Jaffe) Fwd: Calliope Release 3996 (Eric M. Mrozek) ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## (Peter Stone) Send article submissions to: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to: nextmusic-request@eecs.umich.edu Archives and other goodies are available via anonymous ftp: ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/pub/nextmusic Read the list of sound and music programs for NextStep at: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~mrozek/nextmusic/NxtSndMusProgs.html ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:08:56 +0200 (MET DST) To: mto-list@husc.harvard.edu, music-research@comlab.ox.ac.uk, musprf-l%cmsuvmb.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU, nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu, notmus-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu, semla-l@uga.cc.uga.edu, sound@acm.org, synth-l@american.edu, ubmut-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu From: psto@xs4all.nl (Peter Stone) Subject: ## VRML generation to Symbolic Composer ## Symbolic Composer was recently enhanced by VRML 1.0 interface, which allows to generate 3 dimensional worlds directly with SCOM algorithms. Symbolic Composer continues as an exclusive music composition program, while Einstein's Daydream will grow more into 3D graphic composition, maintaining full-compatibility with SCOM music language. PRESS RELEASE, For Immediate Release Announcing Einstein's Daydream 1.0 Algorithmic Toolbox for Creating VRML Moving Worlds and MIDI Music to the Web AMSTERDAM, June 24, 1996 Algorithmic Research today announced Einstein's Daydream, an algorithmic toolbox for creating VRML 1.0 and VRML 2.0 compatible worlds and MIDI music to the Web. "The current trend to replicate shopping malls and banks into virtual reality does not favour the algorithmic nature of cyberspace. Instead, our challenge will be to explore the unknown and build the wild and free cyberspace generating it by algorithms. Einstein's Daydream will bring artistic and musical cyberspace designs a reality, available for the millions who will access the world-wide information matrix," said Peter Stone, president of Algorithmic Research. Einstein's Daydream produces VRML 1.0 and VRML 2.0 Moving Worlds compatible files that can be placed in servers, or processed further in VRML builder programs. Algorithms can control VRML 1.0/2.0 language parameter fields, and allow to create objects, animations, camera paths, behaviours, actions and reactions. Algorithms cover lsystems, fourier synthesis, noise, fractals, chaos, oscillators, neurons, number theory, fibonacci sequences, prime numbers, autocatalysis and processors, totaling over 400 functions applicable on any VRML constructs, or MIDI. MIDI file generation uses object-oriented SCOM language that covers musical micro and macrostructures definable by algorithms. MIDI playback is based on 256 channel operation, and is internal. A Netscape plug-in is supplied to achieve the same resolution in servers. VRML file generation requires an external VRML-compatible browser for viewing. Einstein's Daydream is implemented in Lisp and runs on the Macintosh. Windows version is under preparation and will be announced later this year. Einstein's Daydream is targeted for advanced users for creating algorithmic worlds and music, or experimenting and studying virtual architecture not bound to physical constraints. "The philosphy of Einstein's Daydream is simple: to supply the user a toolbox of interoperative modular functions, that can be applied on generating whatever there is possible in VRML and MIDI specifications. As an ascii-written, user-extendable Lisp-based language Einstein's Daydream does not represent limits of expression, but naturally requires a certain decipline to adapt into algorithmic construction." Features Einstein's Daydream includes optimized development environment for editing and maintaining code and accessing hypertext documents needed in program development. The interface enables pasting of language macros for quick coding and 2D viewing of parameter data. If you are not a programmer, this environment will make you a programmer. Einstein's Daydream uses open and modular software architecture. New functions can be added snapping in plug-in modules. New modules can be programmed online with build-in Lisp interpreter. The modules can be compiled into fast-executing machine language with Macintosh Common Lisp, available through Digitool. Document system can be expanded by dragging folders containing new documents into the Documents folder. Algorithmic Research is collecting a list of subscribers who would like to obtain Einstein's Daydream for Windows at a reduced price for $100 to support the porting costs. After porting the price will jump to the list price $495. In case your company is interested in sponsoring the development, or if you would like to subscribe the Windows version contact Peter Stone. Upgrade to Einstein's Daydream will be available to SCOM Pro users for $199. Developer's discount is available for persons who would like to start writing 3D extension modules, or new scientific algorithms to Einstein's Daydream. Specifications Platform: Macintosh Operating System: Mac OS Minimum Memory: 8 MB RAM, 16 MB-32 MB suggested VRML Generation: VRML 1.0 (VRML 2.0 soon) Music Generation: MIDI Nmbr. of Algorithms: 400+100 Further Information Here are a couple of examples that show you the effect of algorithmic construction of a hypercube, nested in levels 2 and 3 (VRML 1.0 file format). cube32.wrl and cube33.wrl. There is also a small gallery of screen shots of the hypercube. http://www.xs4all.nl/~psto/vrml/einstein.html Contact: Peter Stone Algorithmic Research +31-20-6957 880 psto@xs4all.nl ------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:46:30 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michel.Fingerhut@ircam.fr (Michel Fingerhut) To: MAX@VM1.MCGILL.CA, bit.listserv.mla-l@ircam.fr, comp.dsp@ircam.fr, comp.music@ircam.fr, comp.music.research@parnasse.com, comp.speech@ircam.fr, icma@umich.edu, ircam.elist.acm-sound@ircam.fr, ircam.elist.audio-l@ircam.fr, ircam.elist.csound@ircam.fr, ircam.elist.daw-mac@ircam.fr, ircam.elist.notmus-l@ircam.fr, ircam.elist.semla-l@ircam.fr, ircam.nextmusic@ircam.fr, music-research@comlab.ox.ac.uk, musprf-l%cmsuvmb.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU, rec.audio.pro@ircam.fr, rec.music.classical@ircam.fr, rec.music.makers.synth@ircam.fr, synth-l@american.edu, ubmut-l@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: IRCAM Multimedia Library on the Web in French and English IRCAM Multimedia Library 1 Place Igor Stravinski - 75004 Paris, France http://mediatheque.ircam.fr (2nd announcement; new: access in English) The Multimedia Library of IRCAM has officially opened its doors to the public in the remodelled new wing. Its collections comprize ca. 15,000 books and over 6,000 scores of contemporary (post-WWII) music, as well as the IRCAM/EIC (Ensemble Intercontemporain) archives of concerts for the last 20 years, audio CDs, documentary videos and CD-ROMs. The catalog of this collection, as well as access to the material itself - audio (CD-quality sound), video, CD-ROM - are available online within the walls of the Multimedia Library. Patrons are able to access the catalog, as well as the material, through the network in a continuous, CD-quality, stream of sound (and video) to the patron's station. The software provides access to the catalog as well as to the digitized material, which is enriched with close to 1,000 biographical and musicological notes on composers and their works, as well as musical and scientific articles. Internet access to the catalog, as well as to the articles of Resonance, IRCAM's free publication, is available via WWW, at http://mediatheque.ircam.fr, most of the pages being available both in French and in English. It requires a browser capable of displaying so-called FRAMEs (other browsers will display a downgraded interface). The material itself (other texts, music and video) is not available on the net for reasons of protection of intellectual rights and copyrights. The library itself is open to the public. The online system is no substitute to visiting the library and its collections, it is a complement and a tool. You are welcome to visit us! Michael Fingerhut Multimedia Library Project Manager ------------------------------------- From: "David A. Jaffe" Date: Sun, 11 Aug 96 17:59:01 -0700 To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: Music Kit news Reply-To: david@jaffe.com X-Web-Page: http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~daj *** Music Kit News--August 1996 *** Contents: * UPCOMING RELEASE: MUSIC KIT 4.2 * INTEL DSP AND MIDI HARDWARE * PORTS TO OTHER PLATFORMS, OPENSTEP, OTHER OPERATING SYSTEMS * SYNTHBUILDER * QUESTIONAIRE Please send feedback on these issues, either to this list or to musickit@ccrma.stanford.edu. UPCOMING RELEASE: MUSIC KIT 4.2 We will be releasing Music Kit 4.2 shortly. Main new features: + Support for writing soundfiles from the DSP on Intel hardware (previously available only on NeXT hardware.) Support for directly-intercepting sound data coming back from the DSP. + A new application, SEQUENCE, a full-featured Music Kit Sequencer developed by Pinnacle Research (available from ftp://ftp-ccrma.stanford.edu/pub/NeXT/MusicKit/Sequence.tar.Z.) + Intel implementation has been optimized. Also, new Intel driver for "Frankenstein" DSP hardware, including its analog i/o. (See hardware discussion below). + A new envelope handler provides reliable real-time envelopes (down-loaded on DSP). Other new UnitGenerator classes. + COMMAND-DOT to abort the DSP + Updated documentation INTEL DSP AND MIDI HARDWARE ISSUES There is a need for a better DSP card for the Intel platform. DSP chips have improved significantly. The DSP56002 is twice as fast as the DSP56001. The upcoming DSP56301 is more than twice as fast again, with bigger on-chip memory. Meanwhile, two of the three DSP cards supported by the Music Kit are no longer made: the Ariel PC56D card and the Turtle Beach Multisound. The i*link i56 is still available but it has a small memory space--8K words and a relatively-slow DSP by today's standards. Therefore, in 1995, we at Stanford undertook an experimental hardware development effort: First, we developed "Frankenstein 1" an 8-DSP box composed of Motorolla DSP evaluation modules ("EVM"s) and connected to a PC via an ISA card. Each of these has a DSP56002 running at 76 mhz. (twice its rated clock speed). Thus the box has the power of 16 DSP56001s and 16 channels of sound input and output. It is being used to do physical modeling synthesis research. Second, we developed the"Coctail Frank", a one-DSP56002 card with the DSP running at 76 mhz. We've made several of them and are willing to give away the information on how to build them. How many of you would be interested in building your own? Alternatively, we are considering building them ourselves and selling them at near cost--around $450, though the exact price is yet to be determined. How many of you would be likely to order them? Is there interest for a multi-DSP card? Please let us know if you would be interested in these proposals (send email to musickit@ccrma.stanford.edu directly, and we will distill the responses and re-post to this list). In addition, we have heard of various new DSP cards that have been announced by companies such as Momentum Data Systems, many using the exciting DSP56301. We plan to evaluate these cards. If we like the hardware and find them cost effective, we will support them, though they are likely to be more expensive than the Coctail Frank. Intel MIDI cards have also been problematic. We were happy with MusicQuest MIDI cards, but they are apparently no longer being made, or at least they are difficult to find. Sound Blasters and compatibles do not work because they use the same IRQ for both MIDI and sound. In order to make this work in Nextstep, Sound and MIDI need to be combined into one driver. We are working on a solution to this problem. We hope to release a Sound+MIDI driver for the SoundBlaster. Until then, the only way to handle the situation is to get a MPU401 MIDI-only card or to have two SB-compatible cards, where one handles sound and the other handles MIDI; in order to do this, it must be possible to set them to separate IRQs and non-overlapping IO ports. Another possibility is to use the Ensoniq card. There is a combined sound/MIDI driver. For information, contact briana@sounds.wa.com. PORTS TO OTHER PLATFORMS, OPENSTEP, OTHER OPERATING SYSTEMS Perhaps the biggest question is how will the Music Kit address Openstep, other operating systems and other platforms without DSPs? Our plans in these areas are continually evolving. We are currently prototyping a real-time synthesis server ("SynthServer") that is written in pure-ANSI-C and is factored so as to be easily portable to various operating systems. It is entirely independent of Nextstep and uses no Music Kit code. Therefore it may easily be ported to various operating systems. A prototype is currently running on both the Pentium under Nextstep and SGI under IRIX and is giving promising results. We also plan ports to Windows NT and, possibly, Mac OS. SynthServer is intended to serve several purposes: 1. It can be used as a server for synthesis and MIDI processing. Applications communicate with it via "SynthScript", a new ASCII patch description language, and via MIDI or scorefile data. 2. The SynthServer Toolkit can be used for constructing applications--that is, as a stripped-down portable substitute for the Music Kit. It has such MusicKit-reminiscent constructs as Notes, UnitGenerators and NoteFilters. But it does not have the rich feature set of the Music Kit. 3. SynthServer can be used by the Music Kit itself to do rendering when there is no DSP available. This will involve a new planned OpenStep-compatible release of the Music Kit (version 5.0) that will support SynthServer. It will also continue to support DSP-based synthesis on those platforms where it is available, since we still expect that DSPs will prove cost-effective in price-performance. We will support the most popular OpenStep platforms, including Windows NT. SYNTHBUILDER SynthBuilder is one of the most exciting Music Kit applications and is driving Music Kit development. For more information on SynthBuilder please see http://www-leland.stanford.edu/group/OTL/SynthBuilder.html. We plan to port SynthBuilder to OpenStep and convert it to use SynthServer or the new OpenStep-compatible Music Kit. QUESTIONAIRE Please fill out the following questionaire and return it to musickit@ccrma.stanford.edu. Feel free to provide additional info for any of the questions. 1. Are you a current Music Kit user? (Y or N) [ ] If not, go to question 2. 1a. Do you do software development? (Y or N) [ ] 1b. Do you use Music Kit applications and utilities? (Y or N) [ ] 1c. Do you run the Music Kit on NeXT hardware? (Y or N) [ ] 1d. Do you run the Music Kit on Intel hardware? (Y or N) [ ] If not, go to question 2. 1e. What DSP card do you use? [ ... ] 1f. What MIDI card do you use? [ ... ] 1g. What sound card do you use? Are you happy with it? [ ... ] 2. Rank the following priorities, with higher numbers meaning more important: [ ] Support for new powerful DSPs [ ] Music Kit (objective-C, full feature set, applications, etc.) [ ] SynthServer, doing DSP on main CPU [ ] SynthServer toolkit, doing DSP on main CPU 3. Rank your interest in the following platforms/operating systems: MusicKit and/or SynthServer and/or SynthServer toolkit: [ ] OpenStep for Solaris (Sun hardware) [ ] OpenStep for NT (Intel hardware) [ ] OpenStep for Mach (Intel hardware) [ ] OpenStep for Mach (NeXT hardware) [ ] OpenStep for Mach (HP hardware) SynthServer and/or SynthServer toolkit: [ ] Windows 95 (Intel hardware) [ ] Windows 3.1 (Intel hardware) [ ] Windows NT (Intel hardware) [ ] IRIX (SGI hardware) [ ] Mac OS (Apple hardware) If you are not interested in Intel hardware, you're done. Thanks. Otherwise, please continue. 4. Are you intersted in DSPs? (Y or N) [ ] If not, go to question 5. 4a. Would you be interested in making your own Frankenstein card? (Y or N): [ ] 4b. Would you be interested in buying a Frankenstein card if we made it? (Y or N): [ ] 4c. Assuming paying more gives you comparably more DSP power what price range would you be willing to pay: (1=$100-$500, 2=$500-$1000, 3=$1000-2000, over 4=$2000) [ ] 4d. Is there a particular 56xxx-based DSP card that you would like us to support? [ ... ] 5. Are you interested in MIDI? (Y or N) [ ] If not, go to question 6. 5a. Would a SoundBlaster sound+MIDI driver be of interest to you? (Y or N): [ ] 5b. Is there a particular MIDI card that you would like us to support? [ ... ] You're done. Thanks. ------------------------------------- From: "Eric M. Mrozek" Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 12:10:26 -0400 To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: Fwd: Calliope Release 3996 Begin forwarded message: From: William Clocksin Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 16:26:40 +0100 To: celia@music.gla.ac.uk, Matthias.Boehringer@rus.uni-stuttgart.de, pickett@blumlein.music.indiana.edu, kenneth@music.gla.ac.uk, crath@cyberus.ca, kim@tinker.com, cap@bawdy.slip.cs.cmu.edu, walsh@math.ubc.ca, greta@music.gla.ac.uk, stephen@music.gla.ac.uk, daj@ccrma.stanford.edu, stoll@chemix.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de, Rick_McGowan@NeXT.COM, david.hempling@LatGroup.COM, sam@darth.geg.mot.com, bustrin@morgan.com, operator@music.gla.ac.uk, dami@cui.unige.ch, opus@ipnh.mv.com, mrozek@lipschitz.eecs.umich.edu Subject: Calliope Release 3996 Reply-To: wfc@CL.cam.ac.uk X-Web-Page: http://www.CL.cam.ac.uk/users/wfc/ A new release (3996) of Calliope is ready. Please get Calliope.app.tar.Z and the release notes Release3994.txt from: ftp://ftp.CL.cam.ac.uk/users/wfc/ This release has the following: 3996 'Reorder' button added to System Inspector. (Reorder staves by Control-dragging the staff number buttons to desired places, then pressing REORDER. An alert panel permits reordering of current system or all systems.) System type-flags rectified on unarchiving (only affects unarchiving of very old versions (like 3)). recent previous releases added the following: 3994 Added 'show slash' button to note inspector. App Prefs has new Launch Options 'add notehead' tool automatically goes into drag mode. Staff Height aspect of Doc Pref has calculator for font sizes. 3986 fixed bug in finding split hangers during spill bar. improved system inspector GUI (again) more bar number functionality systems can show separator marks added runner font as a doc preference 3981 individual barlines can override 5's bar numbers appearing over them. bar numbers do not appear over last bar in staff (a stronger rule). fixed crash reflecting selection of non-staffobjs in castinspector. Command-r hyphen/extender cycles through two (rare) possibilities. improved graphic behaviour of runner variables. double-click on an object or marker raises the inspector. implemented colours. headers/footers now display at 'true' font size. fixed barline bug introduced in 3918. bug fix in pasting images. improved hyphen-margin finding (concerning small clefs at beginning) Please let me know how you do. William Clocksin ------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:10:09 +0200 (MET DST) To: musprf-l%cmsuvmb.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.EDU, mvturner@aol.com, n9110620@henson.cc.wwu.edu, nature@worldxs.worldaccess.nl, nature@worldaccess.nl, netmag@baskerville.cineca.it, neuhaus@folkwang.uni-essen.de, neves@ils.nwu.edu, newsounds@jupiter.augustea.it, nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu, njames@uoguelph.ca From: psto@xs4all.nl (Peter Stone) Subject: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## This is a list of Symbolic Composer users, or persons who have requested more information about it, or have by other means become linked to the development. For the first time unsubscription is guaranteed to work. If you do not want to be in the frontline in music and VRML software development you can cancel further postings by responding this email with subject line: unsubscribe your@email.address Before sending a message with properly formatted unsubscription subject line with empty body analyze the message header information block to ensure the status of the message that this electronic document was not broadcasted to your network server domain by means of standard discussion group mass-distribution mechanisms, since in that case individual unsubscription processes will not be applicable. --- Symbolic Composer Pro was recently extended by Atonal Set Theory and VRML 1.0 Generator. The extensions can be downloaded in the Symbolic Composer web page at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~psto/ Atonal Set Theory The Pitch-Class-Set (Atonal Set Theory) functions are based on the concept and terminology of Allen Forte's texts "The Structure of Atonal Music", whose pitch-class-set naming scheme is mostly and widely adopted by the theorists. "It seems to me as a logical step to include the Pitch-Class-Set functionality in an environment such as Symbolic Composer. The functions are build in such a way that they can be used for analytical or composition purposes", says the London-based author Janusz Podrazik. Pitch-Class-Set functions are included in the latest MRAC module. pc-set pc-set-cardinal pc-set-complement pc-set-invert pc-set-normal-order pc-set-prime-form pc-set-subcomplex pc-set-transpose pc-subset-power-set pc-subset-prime-form pc-subset-relation The MRAC update (10/08/96) includes as well some minor fixes, additions and a new functions. VRML 1.0 Generator Simulation is one of the fastest growing areas of the computer industry, and also one of the most exciting. Symbolic Composer is now fully equipped to let users take part of this development. Already, simulation has evolved beyond classic visual simulation into exciting new areas. Virtual engineering applications are using visualisation technology to create new concepts, virtual theme park attractions and interactive games. Now simulation will evolve even further, and bring the integration of 3-D and music a reality. VRML 1.0 Generator will introduce you to VRML, the language of cyberspace. It implements VRML 1.0 forms that let you use them alongside Symbolic Composer's algorithms to generate both architectural designs and other artistic objects - and music. For the first time in the history, music and architecture have now been integrated in a deeper level within a commercially available program. VRML is an acronym for the Virtual Reality Modeling Language. Using VRML you can craft your own three-dimensional virtual worlds. You can build your own virtual rooms, buildings, cities, mountains, or planets. You can fill your virtual worlds with virtual furniture, cars, people, spacecraft, or anything else you can dream up, and link the virtual worlds together in the Web, the place that William Gibson called consensual hallusination experienced by millions of people around the world. If you have ever wanted to take part of the cyberspace build-up process, this is now the optimum moment to start learning the machine language of this emerging world-wide new reality. Scandinavia Joins In "I just wanted to send you a mail about how happy I am with Symbolic Composer. So far it gives me everything I have been looking for and then some. Keep up the good work with this program. It is the best money I have spent on music software in a long time." Tor Lindberg, Norway "It must be the most brilliant piece of music-software ever written." Jesper Elen, Sweden. VRML 1.0 Generator Extensions Camera OrthographicCamera PerspectiveCamera Geometry Coordinate3 FontStyle Info LOD Material MaterialBinding Normal NormalBinding ShapeHints Texture2 Texture2Transform TextureCoordinate2 Group Group Separator Switch TransformSeparator WWWAnchor Instancing DEF USE Light DirectionalLight PointLight SpotLight Misc vrml-1.0-header with-vrml1-output WWWInline Shape AsciiText Cone Cube Cylinder IndexedFaceSet IndexedLineSet PointSet Sphere Transform MatrixTransform Rotation Scale Transform Translation ------------------------------------- End of NeXTmusic Digest #941  1,, Summary-line: 4-Sep sgw@MIT.EDU #Re: Milo Lives! Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27158; Wed, 4 Sep 96 22:49:59 EDT Received: from M11-113-13.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14117; Wed, 4 Sep 96 22:49:58 EDT From: sgw@MIT.EDU Received: by m11-113-13.MIT.EDU (5.x/4.7) id AA12237; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 22:49:59 -0400 Message-Id: <9609050249.AA12237@m11-113-13.MIT.EDU> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Cc: sgw@MIT.EDU, southsea@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Milo Lives! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Sep 1996 20:17:29 EDT." <199609050017.UAA13312@charon.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 22:49:58 EDT *** EOOH *** From: sgw@MIT.EDU X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Cc: sgw@MIT.EDU, southsea@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Milo Lives! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Sep 1996 20:17:29 EDT." <199609050017.UAA13312@charon.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 22:49:58 EDT > > This sounds cool. What did you do to get the UTP port to work? pretty much the main thing seemed to be making sure the UTP was in and active when the machine powered up. I'd long suspected that whoever had done the frobbing in the past just unplugged the thin and plugged in the UTP and just expected it to work. OTher than that, there was nothing particularly magical in anything I did beyond setting a different default gateway. > Beware of upgrading to another version of NeXTStep or Openstep. The > AFS code currently on there, while horribly old, and kinda buggy, will > not work on any newer version of the OS. Nor is there an update that > I know about. Putting NetBSD or Plan9 on it might be good, though. I was afraid of that. I'm wondering if there is newer AFS code available. NetBSD might be amusing, especially if we can get AFS to work. I'd be kinda psyched to see a Mach machine stick around.... > There shouldn't be many kludges on milo regarding milo-net (check with > jhawk); the time can be reset from the preferences application. The main kludges seemed to be in routes and netmasks, but there were also some things that were just out of date. I didn't think to check the preferences, but tried to become root instead to set it that way. Sadly, I'm not in the wheel group, and I wasn't convinced I could remember the root password anyhow. I had to take off, so it wasn't a big deal at the time. If the machine just has someone pay attention to it for a while it'll be much happier. BTW: Did I mention that i picked up a color turbo slab at swapfest? If you ignore the fact that I can't get the keyboard to work, it's a good deal. I suspect that I have a non ADB keyboard w/ an ADB sound box + cables. or maybe the other way around. Do you have any clue as to how to identify an ADB keyboard? no one else seems to know... steve  1,, Summary-line: 13-Sep Sergei Romanoff #Re: RE- DVC VX-1000 "the plum feeder" Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20593; Fri, 13 Sep 96 15:50:36 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17306; Fri, 13 Sep 96 15:50:35 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id OAA15785; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:50:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA15436 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:49:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (aa572@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15393 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:48:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from aa572@localhost) by sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA30121; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:47:51 -0600 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:47:50 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Sergei Romanoff To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Cc: Karl Miller , DARIN LARSON , Merlin Hansen , Sheila Gray Subject: Re: RE- DVC VX-1000 "the plum feeder" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:47:50 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Sergei Romanoff To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Cc: Karl Miller , DARIN LARSON , Merlin Hansen , Sheila Gray Subject: Re: RE- DVC VX-1000 "the plum feeder" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > >I have the VX-1000. Since this color bar feature is undocumented, how to I > >find them? Which buttons do I push? > > > >>Kevin, > > > "C O L O U R B A R S" by Greg Letourneau applied by: Sergei and Angus Generating color bars is an undocumented feature of the VX-1000 It is a little tricky. 1. Turn the "Power Switch" to "Camera". S&A: check 2. Make sure the "Standby" selector is in "Lock" mode. S&A: check 3. Simultaneously hold down the "Photo" button... S&A: check (at the top of the camera) and push the red "Start/Stop" button. S&A: (the red start/stop button beside edit search?) 4. While continuing to hold these buttons, turn the "Standby" selector > from "Lock" to "Standby". You should now have color bars. S&A: It works! Ureeka! You're a Brain Surgeon... or is that a Tree Surgeon... Anyway, great Sony Hacking...Dudes! Angus: No grey scale at the bottom. Sergei: Color bars look like the ones on a Sony DCX3000. Hey Angus, you're like a "plum NL" kind of guy with "hacked" Sony Color bars off a "non-professional rig". The Result: To switch out of color bar status... Angus: Switch back to lock and let go. Sergei: Will it reset to normal after turn-off? Hi, Greg... Reply Coming to a Email session near YOU... Tomorrow or next weeK! Tune into C o l o r B a r s on Vidpro-l with > Greg Letourneau > gregl@patriot.net > >  1,, Summary-line: 23-Sep k_suszko_@ccmailgw.state. #Goin' to the chapel....(wedding vids/more) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00666; Mon, 23 Sep 96 12:27:27 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22653; Mon, 23 Sep 96 12:27:15 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA29189; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:07:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02526 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:00:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from forbes.state.il.us (forbes.state.il.us [163.191.183.99]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02428 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:59:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ccmailgw.state.il.us by forbes.state.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA19675; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:53:04 -0500 Received: from cc:Mail by ccmailgw.state.il.us id AA843501701 Mon, 23 Sep 96 11:01:41 cst Message-Id: <9608238435.AA843501701@ccmailgw.state.il.us> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 96 11:01:41 cst Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us To: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Goin' to the chapel....(wedding vids/more) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 23 Sep 96 11:01:41 cst Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us To: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Goin' to the chapel....(wedding vids/more) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN The absolute WORST thing you an do in a one-camera vhs camcorder wedding shoot (besides forget the tripod) is to count on the on-board mic for any good audio of the vows, etc. If money is a concern, you can buy a Radio Shack wireless lav for the groom's lapel, (around $60) or try renting a nice quality unit at any music instrument shop: cost me $25 last time. Afterwards, at the reception, you can wind the thing up with rubber bands into a small package, and guests at tables can pass the mic around and have their good-luck wishes heard over the noise of the band. You should go to the rehearsal, to scout the place for power and lights, to see (and perhaps modify) the way the party and principles will stand, and of course, to make nice with the priest, minister, rabbi, head druid, whatever. Don't skip this step, 'cause the guy can always throw you out if you're a jerk. Most modern ceremonies (& celebrants) have the couple face each other and/or the congregation. The rehearsal's your only chance to have ANY say in the blocking. You also can have a lot of fun editing later with before/after stuff of the rehearsal contrasted with the actual day. You can also check out the mic for RF interference,(it happens) and test the camera for color balance and lighting needs at this point. If one camera is all you have, make it on a tripod about 3-4 rows back, with a clear shot of the bride's side.That's the shot to get if you only have one choice. If you're close to the aisle, you might be able to get both of them in for all the key features... the walking in, the vows, the exit, etc. My opinion on blocking: Decide if you want to convey the POV of a typical guest (lots of shots of the marrying couple's backs), or do you want to capture a POV that no one else attending would otherwise have. I have used a second camera on a Vinten tabletop tripod to get stuff facing the congregation, excellent for editing later. Just set it full-auto with a high-cap battery, and turn it on just before they roll out the white runner. Train it on the first rows, where the moms and dads will be crying, etc. Surprising to me, many celebrants have no trouble with an unattended camera discretely tucked behind part of the altar, or a decorative planter, etc. Reverse-angles make for more interesting wedding shoots. My basic list of "musts" for shooting: Open on an invitation CU Show an ext. establisher of church Show anxious birdesmaids and ushers milling and putting on corsages, get them to talk about the couple getting married. Show guests arriving (several over time interspersed with above). One-on-one with groom, ask him to make a special message to bride. Do same with Bride. Sometimes the priest will do one, too, esp. if they've known one of the couple since grade school, etc. If time, ambush interview proud parents. Go up to front, shoot reactions and cutaways of guests, be there to see the ceremonial arrival/seating of the mothers, and if they light side candles for unity candle. Get on tripod for bride's entrance I shoot the entire ceremony.(yawn - that's what editing is for). Shoot vows and ring tight. Shoot exit, a few doc shots of the still guy doing his thing( I like to try and match the still guy's angle on a couple shots, then edit at the flash point and show the finished still in editing). Get the signing of the license. Get couple to talk about how that !@#!$ unity candle never lights properly:-) or how nervous they were, etc. Get couple exiting to rice, balloons, whatever, show them getting into limo, etc. Iris down to black as limo pulls away. At reception, shoot receiving line (AKA the mug shot tape). Shoot formal entrance, toasts, first dance, cake cut, bouquet/garter, dollar dance, silly ethnic dance of choice, and that weird thing where all the girls dance with each other.:-) Work all the tables with the mic for guests to record special messages. This is great for I.D.ing new relatives and matching faces to gifts later) Find an appropriate place to rack-focus out during a song, usually into the band's colored spot lighting or a sparkly chandelier, or the cake topper figures. Maybe finish with congrats sign on ext. of reception hall. That's a lot of stuff to shoot if you're on day rate - but to those of us who do this as a way to save up for a DV camera, it's the bare minimum for that rather small check. Usually, I don't even get to eat the neat dinner:-( Last thing: if you're going to shoot the wedding RIGHT, you will be WORKING, do not consider yourself a guest. If you want to be a guest who happens to shoot a little video, don't get their hopes up for high-quality results. Salud, l'a hiam, nadzdrovia, skoal, kampai, etc. Mark Suszko  1,, Summary-line: 24-Sep JohnSanner@aol.com #Re: Weddings Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18624; Tue, 24 Sep 96 08:08:25 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29774; Tue, 24 Sep 96 08:08:23 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id HAA12337; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:01:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12311 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:58:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com (emout09.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.24]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12306 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:58:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA19366 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:57:35 -0400 Message-Id: <960924075731_291966902@emout09.mail.aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:57:35 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: JohnSanner@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Weddings X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:57:35 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: JohnSanner@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Weddings X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Michael: Welcome to the world of wedding videography. Freebies are a good way to start. >1) If you're only using one camera, where do you usually place > it? Note: Although I probably will not be using a lav. mic, I > will have an external mic with a nice, long, balanced cable. Of > course church layouts probably vary, but this is a general > question. Camera placement of one camera is quite variable. Go to the rehearsal and plan for the shoot. If there is a balcony, it is probably your best bet although audio can be a problem from there unless you use a wireless mic or two. Another thing that works very well is to use an external mike placed very close to one of the church speakers if they are using a sound system. If there is room on the side of the church, 3/4 of the way to the front, you could set up on the side. The right side is best because you get the best shots of the bride. A big problem with this placement is that everybody will stand up and block your view when the bride comes down the aisle. >2) What type of shots do you usually try to get? I grab candid shots of participants and guests before the ceremony and during the photo session after the ceremony, and at the reception. I shoot the whole ceremony without stopping the camera. It can be edited later if needed. > 3) During the actuall ceremony, do you do any type of in-camera >editing (interupting the sound track) or do you just do one long >take with pans and, arggg!!!... ZOOMS? Remember, I'll only >using one camera. Shoot the whole thing. Limit the pans and zooms. Just follow the action, or get your best shot and hold it until the scene changes >4) Aside from taping the ceremony, what else do you tape? >(Before, reactions during, after, reception, etc...) See #2. >5) What kind of editing do you do later? Unfortunately, I don't >have access to any type of special effects. I usually use at least 2 cameras, one or two of which may be unmanned-just put them in wide angle, point them at the alter, and turn them on. They can serve as cover shots during camera movements, focus problems etc. >6) Oh, and should I ask for permission from the minister? I >understand some don't allow video taping in the church. Go to the rehearsal and talk to the minister. They usually have rules and guidelines, and can be very helpful if you ask them. >7) Since I don't have a lav. (I might get one, you never know) >I've heard of placing a mic on a stand between the minister and >the couple. What do you think of this approach? I do have several > microphones and a pretty hefty mixer, would it be wise to use >more than one mic? Would it be worth while to make a seperate > recording of the audio on DAT (something else)? I could get one >free for the day. Some churches use kneelers where you can hide a mic. The minister will sometimes agree to wear a wireless mic. Some wedding videographers put one on the groom, but I have never had one agree to this. I don't think I would trust him anyway. The minister does most of the talking, and he can probably be relied on the make sure the mic is attached and turned on. The groom is too nervous to think about things like that. Most services include scripture readings from a separate lectern. It's good to have another mic there. The DAT recorder might be OK for the music, but very dificult to get lip sync with the video. > 8)Any other suggestions? Keep it simple unless you have a helper. John Sanner Sanner Video Services Deerfield, IL  1,, Summary-line: 27-Sep Rick Johnston #RE: Inspirational Platitudes about customer service Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05589; Fri, 27 Sep 96 16:49:20 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23222; Fri, 27 Sep 96 16:49:18 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA15074; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:37:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26826 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:34:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26786 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:34:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from eppp12.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa27482; 27 Sep 96 16:40 EDT Received: by eppp12.buffnet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BBAC92.22EED220@eppp12.buffnet.net>; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:37:13 -0400 Message-Id: <01BBAC92.22EED220@eppp12.buffnet.net> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:35:14 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Rick Johnston To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" Subject: RE: Inspirational Platitudes about customer service X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:35:14 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Rick Johnston To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" Subject: RE: Inspirational Platitudes about customer service X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Good thread!!! It's about time we talked tips & techniques for getting & keeping business. Here's my 2c: I recently finished reading a book called "Positively Outrageous Service" by T Scott Gross. In it, he recalls that in Psyche 101 we learned that random acts beget regular behavior. He uses "outrageous" acts to generate word-of-mouth, and to keep his fast food restaurant at the front of his customers' minds. For example, one of his delivery drivers messed up an order. The customer called to complain. The owner (not the manager or an employee) drove out to the customer's home with a double order -- free of charge -- introduced himself, apologized and handed the customer some coupons for four free dinners to be used anytime. AND let the customer keep the original order, telling him to "invite the neighbors over" (a nice way of telling the customer to spread the word). Another: The manager went outside during lunch rush to wash windshields in the drive-through line. We applied Mr. Gross' philosophy (knowing that developing long-term client relationships is the key to success and growth). Although we charge full price to the quarter-hour for our services, there are a lot of "little perks" that can keep a client from walking. Things like delivering the dubs in person rather than using a courier. Like "going the extra mile" to make sure their spot or program is the best it can be for the budget. Like having a business relationship with a real restaurant (not fast food or a pizza shop) so the client can enjoy "complimentary" good hot meals in the edit suite. Like making the client feel like a friend, not a profit center. Every once in awhile, our clients receive free dubs. They may already have placed several orders and need another fifty. We make sure they're delivered -- in person -- that afternoon. Instead of an invoice, we write them a little note that thanks them for their business -- and asks them for permission to use their names as a reference (hinting that we want them to refer someone to our facility). Our hard cost for fifty dubs is under $75. Not much to promote our services to a client who recently spent tens of thousands, and will probably spend more. One editing client mentioned that she liked a certain imported beer. After each edit with her, we make sure her favorite is on hand for her to sip as she watches the completed program and waits for her dubs (of course, this only happens when we work into the night). We once stole a client from our competitor (a high-end D2/Digital Betacam house) because the client didn't like the fact that their crew was running around his corporate offices (shooting the CEO) dressed in ripped t-shirts & cutoff jeans. We learned that at meetings, if you dress corporate you get corporate business. On the set, our crews wear high quality golf-style shirts with our logo embroidered over the pocket. And no jeans. When we send out our ten-minute demos, we send them on P-120s. Labels have our logo and address in the corner and the rest of it is blank. We include a letter thanking the prospect for their interest and telling them that after they watch the demo, they can recycle the tape by recording their favorite TV shows on it. That label with our logo is seen every time they pull the tape out of the sleeve. The cost difference between a P-10 and P-120? About eighty cents. We sometimes make mistakes, and when we do, we go above and beyond the simple fix. One client, who travels a lot, called to tell us that the VHS time-code burn was on only two of his three tapes. The third had camera raws, but no BITC. So when we sent out the new BITC dub (FedEx to his hotel, then called the hotel and had a bellman to deliver it to his room) we included a pre-paid phone card with $25 of LD time on it. And a letter of apology. And we talked to him at 10:00 am the following morning to make sure he received it. One thing we never do is discount the price of our services. A/B/C-roll Beta-SP editing is $175 per hour. Crew of three with light kit & mics for a 10-hour day (arrival to departure, not portal-to-portal) is $1,750. One local freelancer cut his rate for a long-time client on a low budget shoot, and it took him two years to get that client back up to standard rate. "You did it last time, you can do it again!" We don't make pizzas -- we make GOURMET pizzas! What's the difference? We service the client. We don't pack the digital gear that the other high-end house in town has, but we land over 80% of the projects we propose. People want to do business with a reputable company. They want value. And they want it on time and within budget. So why are we hitting 80% when the other guys are striking out more often than not? Personality -- people also want to have fun. We really make an effort to make the client feel comfortable -- like an long-time friend coming for a visit. Whew! Sorry for the long post -- but I'm a firm believer in doing business the old-fashioned way. Service is what I believe separates the good from the bankrupt. So ... what are your techniques? Regards, Rick Johnston ---------- From: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us[SMTP:mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us] Sent: Thursday, September 26, 1996 12:06 PM To: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Inspirational Platitudes about customer service From a card I keep on my desk: It costs six times more to attract a new customer than it does to keep an old one. A typical dissatisfied customer will tell 8-10 people about their problem (written before Internet!). Seven of ten complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favor. If you resolve a complaint on the spot, 95% will do business again. Of those customers who quit, 68% do so because of an attitude of indifference by the company or a specific individual. In summary, the facts say customer satisfaction = success. Think about how these apply to you. I keep this by my phone so I can see it while dealing with clients. Seems to be working;-)  1,, Summary-line: 27-Sep GBRENNAN@aol.com #Re: Inspirational Platitudes about customer service Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16061; Fri, 27 Sep 96 17:40:07 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01808; Fri, 27 Sep 96 17:40:05 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA18977; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:28:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA08934 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:23:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08898 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:23:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA05200 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:22:08 -0400 Message-Id: <960927172208_531515525@emout17.mail.aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:22:08 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: GBRENNAN@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Inspirational Platitudes about customer service X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:22:08 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: GBRENNAN@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Inspirational Platitudes about customer service X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN One of my favorites: "You can't fall on your face if you bend over backwards for your client." Essentially, since we're in the service business we better be providing service. I strongly believe that one of my competitive advantages is providing superior customer service. It's astounding to me that so many companies - including video production companies - appear to not care about their customers. Competition is fierce. If I know a client has left another vendor because of poor service, I'll do just about anything to ensure that the client never considers leaving me. The client DOES lay golden eggs, so don't cook your goose by treating the client poorly. I have a chapter in my book about customer service. There 's a plug for my book coming, so stop reading now if you don't want to see it. *********WARNING***** My book is "Successfully Self-Employed. Published by Dearborn, it's avaialable at Barnes & Noble or can be ordered at bookstores. It's written from my persepective - a producer and director of corporate films for over twenty years. You might find it helpful.  1,, Summary-line: 27-Sep Leslie Strom #music library reviews! (long) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25017; Sat, 28 Sep 96 01:01:07 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05627; Sat, 28 Sep 96 01:00:47 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id XAA23136; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:54:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20923 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:52:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from halcyon.com (mail2.halcyon.com [198.137.231.19]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20900 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:52:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [204.29.16.64] (blv-pm14-ip7.halcyon.com) by halcyon.com with SMTP id AA15931 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:51:46 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:53:36 -0800 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: lstrom@halcyon.com (Leslie Strom) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu, media100-list@swave.com Subject: music library reviews! (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:53:36 -0800 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: lstrom@halcyon.com (Leslie Strom) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu, media100-list@swave.com Subject: music library reviews! (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Here's my review on some buy-out music libraries. Fresh music has the best prices ($33 each for three) and the best cross-indexing I've seen. I have three or four of their disks. My first order came with a notebook with sheets and disk sleeves for all their disks, even the ones I didn't buy, so I can refer to the pages if there's something I need. The demo disk is logged by track and by index number... much easier to browse when clients are looking for something to put on their video. This is of tremendous value to me. They also send me new releases with a postage paid mailer if I don't want the disk (or if I do want the disk!). Even if I don't need the disk at the time, I add the sheet to the notebook for reference. (The music on the Media 100 demo is from Fresh. It's called Fairy Dance. I've used it again in a zoo piece.) Quality: good. Convenience: excellent. I have four Chameleon disks, price structure similar to Fresh's, which I use more often for my own projects... the music appeals to my ear a little more. They aren't cross referenced, but they are sold by genre. Your first order comes in a notebook and each disk comes in a sleeve with an info page to file with it. Keeps things neat. The demo is by genre but not indexed... you have to muddle through a track to find what you want, but it's easy enough to use. The "suspense" music disk is my current favorite. Quality: very good. Convenience: fair. The music from Music Bakery is better composed with a lush non-synthesized sound, and I just bought two because a client requested them from the demo disks I loaned them, and the music is superb. The disks are $59 each and not issued by music genre.... they market subscriptions heavily. Music Bakery sends you disks in a jewelcase, with the info on the label. For an additional charge they can provide you with a database index of their music. Personally, I would fully expect them to provide me with a free index if I had more than a couple of their disks. The way I started acquiring music was specific stuff for a few projects, and disk by disk. I can't justify buying music I have no immediate use for, so a subscription makes less sense for me as a consumer. So far, I haven't noticed if they send comp disks for evaluation like Fresh and Chameleon do... I got a card telling me I could buy the newest one, but I also wasn't yet a customer of theirs. Quality: very, very good. Convenience: barely fair. Gene Michael music sounds very well-produced and they represent several sound FX libraries. I found their demo interesting, and I must sit down and give it another listen soon. I found the initial mailing I got from them contained too much stuff. Sound effects libraries, someone else's libraries, little catalogs without prices, disks sold in expensive sets. $50 I got. $500 I don't. Quality: very good. Convenience: fair... maybe better if I were to have dealings with them. All of them had great service... took the orders, mailed them two-day or overnight, whatever. Shipping costs very reasonable. More reviews out there? ___________________________________________ L E S L I E S T R O M W I D E A N G L E P R O D U C T I O N S 2319 N 45th Street #136-C Seattle, Washington 98103 lstrom@halcyon.com September '96: "The Road to Pullman" VHS NTSC 45 minutes ISBN 1-889677-00-0 "Start slow, then taper off." - marathoner Walt Stack, 1908-1995 ___________________________________________  1,, Summary-line: 30-Sep A1Burokas@aol.com #NP-1C?/ deaparado/ music reviews Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27017; Mon, 30 Sep 96 11:01:03 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28053; Mon, 30 Sep 96 11:00:57 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA18813; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:56:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22738 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:52:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22710 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:52:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA10984 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:51:15 -0400 Message-Id: <960930105115_297119644@emout14.mail.aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:51:15 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: A1Burokas@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: NP-1C?/ deaparado/ music reviews X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:51:15 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: A1Burokas@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: NP-1C?/ deaparado/ music reviews X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN betwills@airmail.net wrote: > I'm still waiting on their NP1-C multi-battery charger Okay. I got a few NP1As and 12-NP1Bs but haven't heard of the Cs till now. What's the difference? ___________ Jordi Joaquim i Recort > It was a long work, not in duration but yes in post-producction. > Every month... this include seven 20" leaders, one summary (2min), > 3 trailers (15" each) and some effects... This means around 6GB full of > source material in Betacam SP quality, and 2 or 3 gigs of finished material. Sounds like a job for a system that can playback from the timeline. ___________ To chime in with my own music reviews... The Music Bakery- 7 I Like the Music Bakery, but as mentioned, including all kinds of music on one disk makes it hard to find music quickly. If we want a techical sounding piece for a corporate demo, it's a lot nicer to go to one disk and thumb through all the tracks until something catches our ear. Creative Support Services- 4 I just don't like the music much. I really prefer natural sounding music. Even with rock, if the drums sound synth, it bugs me. So I have the demo, but have never bought a disk. Mokal Music- 7 This relatively new player (as far as I can tell) has some very lush music. High production values. Excessively intense graphics on their disks and demo literature. Somebody's got Photoshop there and just loves to use it. But at single CD prices of about $70 (introductory price) I hedged my bets. Fresh- 6 Some of the stuff is good, but the majority of it sounds synth to me. Which, I should say again, would probably be fine for others, but not for me. Nice book though. I would like to know which buy out companies have the software to build music to length. Some needledrop companies (Hot Tracks, Aircraft, etc. have software that does this, but they make more on their music.) This is because I agree that there's a need for long beds that most CDs do not provide and trying to cut layer music like this together on our own isnt very easy or possible. ----needledrop libraries Production Garden- 9 IMHO, the best I've heard, very good music with sparkling recordings. Aircraft- 8 Some very good stuff and most good stuff. Very few bad ones. I like the way they put a :30 of each theme on the disk at the head of the disk. So just listening through you get a listen to the entire disk- with narration. They send you a book for the info sheets but all the disks come in jeweled cases. With nearly 100 CDs in the library (just music) they need a new way to store it. Killer Tracks- 7 Nice productions, various styles, and some "chancy" tunes that you'll hardly ever use, but when you do, they fit like a glove. Anthony Burokas, Media Technician = A1Burokas@aol.com IEBA Productions, Inc., Philadelphia, PA * MEMBERS.AOL.COM/IEBA + Solid video production complete with in-house NL editing. + Outdoor videography/freelance camera/DTP/video capture "Wilderness Adventures Off The Beaten Path" * MEMBERS.AOL.COM/OTBP + Native Alaskans, Horsepack Riding, Denali, River Rafting, Ice Climbing...  1,, Summary-line: 30-Sep David C. Jedlinsky #Re: rocket science Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20599; Mon, 30 Sep 96 18:12:44 EDT Received: from CHARON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05389; Mon, 30 Sep 96 18:12:43 EDT Received: (from opus@localhost) by charon.MIT.EDU (8.6.13/2.3JIK) id SAA10966; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:12:36 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:12:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199609302212.SAA10966@charon.MIT.EDU> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Dave Cho Cc: amgreene@MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: Dave Cho's message of Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:00:38 -0400 Subject: Re: rocket science *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:12:36 -0400 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Dave Cho Cc: amgreene@MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: Dave Cho's message of Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:00:38 -0400 Subject: Re: rocket science >Given: > * a concept, like making a 10-15 minute promo tape for the MIT > Ballroom Dance Team, > * some materials, like team members, tapes from comps, a camcorder, > a vcr, and possibly some other video equipment, > >what would i need to make the aforementioned tape look reasonably good? > >Stuff like: > * hardware > * software > * time estimates for any of the above It's really hard to get specific without knowing a lot more about: * What the intent of the promo is (play on MIT cable, VHS copies for advertising, or just for fun). * How much you want to spend. Are you trying to beg, borrow, and steal everything, and see what you come up with? Or do you have a budget that allows for some quality, and want to know how best to apply it? Well, you've got a pretty wide-open field of speculation here. I assume you want to do this all yourself, because you could always hire IPNH to do it for you, and you wouldn't have to worry about all those details (there would be other details to worry about). So, a primer on what you need to do a promo: At the very least, you need a camcorder and a VCR with flying erase heads. The camcorder has to have A/V outputs, so you can use it to feed the signal to the VCR. The record deck needs flying erase heads, because that is how you can pause and unpause the tape when recording and not get something called the "rainbow effect" (you'll know it if you've seen it). All 8mm camcorders have flying erase heads, so if you've got two camcorders, that might work. Then, all you do is play the tapes you've recorded on the camcorder, and record the scenes you want on the record deck, skipping over the stuff you want to cut. Very simple, and probably not quite what you want. We'll continue with adding more toys; stop when you get to the point where you are happy with what you can do, or you run out of money. :-) Next, you might want to add titles. To do this cheaply, laser print them, and shoot them with the camcorder. Or get a video titler; this can be either a standalone unit (videonics makes a cheap one), or a computer-based one. The best computer to use is still the Amiga. Rhu probably still has his Toaster lying around, and I have my machine, too. There are PC VGA-TV cards as well. Many of the titlers can overlay (genlock) the signal over a video signal; otherwise you'll be stuck with video-only or titles-only. If you want to be able to control all of this stuff reliably, get an edit controller. This device usually controls the VCRs, and possibly the titler, and allows you a more precise (and repeatable) action when doing the cuts. From here on out, things get pricey. Suppose you want to dissolve from one scene to another, rather than just a cut like we discussed above. You'll need another source deck (could be another camcorder), and a special-effects generator (SEG). You'll want an A/B edit controller (controls two source decks, and the record deck), because it's really hard to get two units to play from the same point at exactly the same time. The SEG is used to do the actual transition (dissolve, wipe, etc) between the sources. Rhu's Toaster does this, and I have a standalone box, the Videonics MX-1, which does this. You need a SEG (but not a second source deck) if you just want to do a fade to/from black. Beyond this point, we get into the realm of non-linear editing. This is a fancy term for "shove everything onto a computer hard disk, muck with it to your hearts content, and dump it out to tape when you're done." This is how I currently work. All I need is one VCR (because I can record back onto the same thing), and mega-buttloads of hard disk space (I'm currently up to 13Gigs for video, and 1Gig for audio). That, and software will probably set you back quite a few thousand. The advantage is that there's no limit to the things you can do, and the generation loss is pretty much non-existant. To see generation loss, try copying a tape, then copying that copy, and compare it to the original. It doesn't look pretty. Time estimates: You need to figure out how much material you want to shoot (you'll throw away a lot of it), and get everything set to tape. Plan the shots in advance, or you'll have a lot of unhappy campers. I figure you'll probably need about three hours to tape all the shots you'll need. Editing takes a long time, because you have to watch the shots, and decide how you want them to go. If you have titles, you'll need to generate them. If you go non-linear, you need to digitize all the clips. Figure about a day (six to eight hours) to do all the editing. Finally, you need to make the copies you want. I have no clue how many you want, or what format. I have no idea if Rhu still has his toys, or if he will lend them, or if he want to sell them. I have a bunch of equipment that I no longer need (because I do everything on the computer now). If you are looking to buy some used stuff, I'd be willing. And of course, my company is always available for hire; we could talk and come up with an estimate if that's what you want. If you've already got a pile of equipment, and want to know how to set it up, send me a list of what it is you have, and I'll help out. -Dave  1,, Summary-line: 6-Oct Stan DeOrsey #Jacobs' Sullivan Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05850; Sun, 6 Oct 96 13:30:19 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01915; Sun, 6 Oct 96 13:30:18 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29553; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3257DFBF.410A@worldnet.att.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: Stan DeOrsey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Jacobs' Sullivan X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: Stan DeOrsey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Jacobs' Sullivan X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) For those of you who are reasonably new to G&S, if you want THE Sullivan biography, it is still available but may not be for long. I noticed this weekend that the Berkshire Record Outlet was still selling Jacobs for $11.99 -- a steal given that it originally sold for around $50. With this book you can answer 50% of Phil Dillards trivia questions! I would guess that 90+% of SavoyNetters would agree that the three most needed/useful G&S books are actually available right NOW. BOOK 1: Ian Bradley's Annotated G&S. It covers all the plays except Thespis with full librettos and explanations for words and people, events during performances, and lost or changed songs/dialog. It is available now or soon will be at local book stores, in it's second edition. BOOK 2: Arthur Jacobs Sullivan biography. Out of print but details below on obtaining the last (2nd) edition. This 500 page book is a complete biography, it is not an analysis of Sullivan's music. And it is a must have book. BOOK 3: Jane Stedman's Gilbert biography. Just out and available in local stores. I have not read mine yet, just got it, so maybe it doesn't belong at position 3, but it appears to be the best Gilbert biography, of the few written. BOOK 4: 20 'netters will give you 20 views on this one. Anyway, Berkshire Records is at 1-800-992-1200 (or 413-243-4080). They take credit cards too but have a $15 minimum order (but that includes postage which is $5 for the first item and 10 cents for each added item.) Jacobs is item B-296. They also have Wolfson's Sullivan and the Scott Russells for $5.99 (item B531). In the CD area (they only have cutouts and discontinued or overstocked items -- NOT all CDs) they have Telarc's Mackerras Pirates at $7.99 (item CD80353) and Mackerras Mikado at $8.99 (CD80284). Plus they have Marco Polo's Thespis and L'Ile Enchantee a steal at $7.99 (CD8.223460). One more steal caught my attention. They have excerpts from the 61 D'Oyly Carte Gondoliers (from Decca/London) at $2.99 !! This is a 69 minute CD, music no dialog. I never even heard of the CD company -- Karussell, from England. The item number is 450009-2. Does any one know if this company publishes any other D'Oyly Carte excerpt? For the record, I have no connection to Berkshire Records, just trying to alert interested folks to some good deals. However, I will accept a finders fee ;-) Just in case my book comments above start a thread, I would personally have book 4 be The Official D'Oyly Carte Picture History by Robin Wilson and Frederic Lloyd. While mostly pictures, I find I refer to it often to either identify some other picture from stage scenery, or to look up an old actor. Heck with these 4 books you could answer all of Phil's trivia, and maybe stump him! Good luck and good reading. -- Stan DeOrsey jsmd@worldnet.att.net  1,, Summary-line: 13-Oct Ben Wong #Re: Credit Cards--longish reply Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12355; Sun, 13 Oct 96 13:37:16 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00663; Sun, 13 Oct 96 13:37:14 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA11307; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:33:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06895 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:01:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fellspt.charm.net (root@fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA06883 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:01:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bnwng.charm.net (bnwng.charm.net [198.69.50.199]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA09099 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19961013195947.40ffabd8@mailhost.charm.net> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:59:47 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Ben Wong To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Credit Cards--longish reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: bnwng@mailhost.charm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:59:47 -0400 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Ben Wong To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Credit Cards--longish reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: bnwng@mailhost.charm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN We've just recently gone through the whole rigamarole of getting set up for Visa/MC and let me tell you it was a major pain in the butt! First of all you should contact the bank where your business account is located. They will tell you who they use for credit card transactions. Our bank uses National Data Payment Systems (T/A NDC). An NDC account person came out, got all the info on our business, explained the various rates (which depend on the amount of CC transactions that you'll do in a year), and took our application fee. To make a long story short, the reason we got the Visa/MC setup was for some government clients who wanted to pay for production services with government purchase cards (essentially debit cards). The problem we had was that every time we tried to send the transaction through it would be denied. After many calls to the client, the purchasing offices and their issuing bank we figured out that the SIC Code that NDC had my company in was blacklisted for government purchase cards. Evidently there is a provision to restrict the use of these cards for legitimate purchases of products and services. NDC had us listed under video--arcades and amusement parks! Gee I wonder why that wouldn't go through, DUH. After many choice words with our NDC rep they finally have everything straightened out. So if your dealing with corporate or individuals who want to use their credit cards to pay you then you should be fine but if you're going to be doing business with government agencies then make sure you get a SIC Code which properly describes your business otherwise you won't get paid. The upside to being able to accept CC transactions is that the money gets deposited directly to your business account with 2-3 days. For our gov't clients this has been a godsend compared to going through the manual method of invoicing and payment. This sometimes took 60-75 days before we got a check. IMO it's well worth the 2-3% fee per transaction plus monthly service fee that you're charged by Visa/MC. Oh, BTW figure on about $600 for the initial outlay for the electronic card swipe. NDC let us pay it off in 3 installments which took some of the bite out. Cheers Ben Wong RW Communications >Is anybody on the list accepting credit cards in their video business? If so, >whats the procedure/costs involved (startup costs also), Is it just as simple >as contacting visa/mastercard or are there specific companies supplying these >services to small business's?  1,, Summary-line: 18-Oct Bruce Bowers #Re: How to Freelance Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21969; Fri, 18 Oct 96 17:26:49 EDT Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27422; Fri, 18 Oct 96 17:26:45 EDT Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA15461; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:25:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21338 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:24:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ginger.vnet.net (root@ginger.vnet.net [166.82.1.69]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA21323 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:24:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop.vnet.net (pop.vnet.net [166.82.1.10]) by ginger.vnet.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA27086; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:31:43 -0400 Received: from [206.80.171.64] (ACCS-AS02-DP03.atln.grid.net [206.80.171.64]) by pop.vnet.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA04820; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: bbowers@vnet.net (Bruce Bowers) To: "Kathleen.Stuart" Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: How to Freelance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: bbowers@pop.vnet.net X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: bbowers@vnet.net (Bruce Bowers) To: "Kathleen.Stuart" Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: How to Freelance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: bbowers@pop.vnet.net X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN >I may have my first freelance job coming up and am not sure how the money end >works- Do I ask the client for a % up front or just bill for everything at the >end? I'll be renting a Betacam and hiring another freelancer to do the >shootingso I'd like to ask for something up front, to help cover out of pocket >stuff - what do you pro freelancers do? Kathleen, When I started my business 7 years ago it was just me... doing the same kind of thing you are doing. But please, don't ever accuse me of being a "freelancer." I was "starting my own business" NEVER a freelancer. Freelancer may be the right word if you intend to remain small. However, if you are starting a business, that's a different matter (at least in your own mind!). Never undervalue your services and ALWAYS insist on receiving 1/2 in advance! That way, if you get stiffed by a client, you should at least have your overhead covered. Another tip. Free of charge. ALWAYS pay your crew people first. Don't wait to get something from the client and hold your crew at bay. Same for equipment rental houses. (That's why you got the 1/2 in advance, right?) It is very important to get a reputation with your freelancers (True freelancers) that you pay them promptly and with your rental houses so they will rent to you again next time. If you are starting your own business, that makes you the boss. That means you are the last to get paid. Bruce Bowers ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BOWERS MEDIA GROUP, Inc. 704/542-8754 Office P.O. Box 470352 704/564-3318 Cellular Charlotte, NC 28247 704/542-9408 Fax U.S.A. email: bbowers@vnet.net Homepage: http://film19.ncarts.edu/nmati/index/buspages/business5.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1,, Summary-line: 26-Oct NeXTmusic #NeXTmusic #943 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15793; Sat, 26 Oct 96 16:49:30 EDT Received: from quip.eecs.umich.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19135; Sat, 26 Oct 96 16:49:29 EDT Received: (from mrozek@localhost) by quip.eecs.umich.edu (8.8.2/8.8.0) id QAA12691 for opus@athena.mit.edu; Sat, 26 Oct 1996 16:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 16:49:28 -0400 (EDT) From: NeXTmusic Message-Id: <199610262049.QAA12691@quip.eecs.umich.edu> To: opus@MIT.EDU Reply-To: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Errors-To: nextmusic-request@eecs.umich.edu Subject: NeXTmusic #943 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 16:49:28 -0400 (EDT) From: NeXTmusic To: opus@MIT.EDU Reply-To: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Subject: NeXTmusic #943 NeXTmusic Digest #943 Thu 24 Oct 1996 Forum for music and DSP related topics in the world of NeXTStep. Eric M. Mrozek, NeXTmusic administrator Contents: Location of Play and PlayObject? (Eric M. Mrozek) *** New product - AUDIO-CD *** (Digital Recordings) ProductionPartner 1.7 available now (Gerald Erdmann) RCN goes Internet (Gerald Erdmann) Send article submissions to: nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to: nextmusic-request@eecs.umich.edu Archives and other goodies are available via anonymous ftp: ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/pub/nextmusic Read the list of sound and music programs for NextStep at: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~mrozek/nextmusic/NxtSndMusProgs.html ------------------------------------- From: "Eric M. Mrozek" Date: Mon, 23 Sep 96 13:51:16 -0400 To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: Location of Play and PlayObject? I recently was questioned about the location of Play and PlayObject, which are in the Next Sound and Music List (http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~mrozek/nextmusic/ProgramList.html). They used to be located at the now defunct nova.cc.purdue.edu server. Does anyone know if they are located at any other sites, or know who the author was, or have a copy of this software? Eric NextMusic administrator ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:55:32 -0300 (ADT) From: Digital Recordings To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: *** New product - AUDIO-CD *** Introducing a new product that allows you to test hearing on home stereo or computer equipment. This product was developed on NeXT computer. Hi, We are proud to announce that we have developed a new, exciting product called Audio-CD (TM). It is an audio compact disc that allows you to test -- without a major investment in equipment -- hearing in the range of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. To perform the test, you need only a CD player and a set of headphones or earphones. It's as simple as that. And it's very affordable. For an introductory price of $20 US plus shipping and handling (for non- commercial use) this easy-to-use, high quality product will be shipped to you. There is no need to invest in a $10,000 audiometer to perform similar hearing threshold testing. We are pleased to offer this test disc at a special introductory price. For further information, please visit our web site (www.isisnet.com/MAX/digital. html) or contact us at our Canadian headquarters. We look forward to hearing from you Sincerely yours, Marek Roland-Mieszkowski, M.Sc., Ph.D. President of DIGITAL RECORDINGS - Advanced R & D AUDIO-CD (TM) ************* Hearing Test ------------ Hearing loss can be caused by factors such as exposure to noise or loud music. For example, a loud rock concert can "age" ears by 2 years. Some portable stereo headsets can produce sound levels up to 130 dB SPL in earphones or headphones. Hearing loss can also be caused by chemicals, some medications, diet, radiation and accelerated aging. For the first time ever, the AUDIO-CD (TM) from Digital Recordings allows anyone to test hearing ability without expensive equipment. This unique CD-based product is the culmination of six years of research and develop- ment by a group of acousticians, audiologists, sound,electronic and audio engineers. Hearing thresholds for 24 frequencies, ranging from 20 Hz (the lowest frequency humans can hear) to 20,000 Hz (the highest frequency humans can hear), can be tested with the AUDIO-CD (TM). Regular tests of hearing with the AUDIO-CD (for example, every 6 months) will allow for the early detection of possible signs of hearing loss and can, therefore, allow for early prevention/correction of hearing deficiencies. CD Player Test -------------- The Audio-CD (TM) also contains a unique Special Digital Signal (SDS) which allows you to test a CD player's performance. Some new players -- and many used ones -- loose digital data stored on the CDs due to problems with a variety of components, such as the laser, lens, tracking, digital circuitry. This in turn leads to deterioration of the CD player's ability to playback music and other recordings. SDS can be routinely used to check your existing CD player,or it can help you test new stereo equipment -- right in the store -- before you buy. Additional Information ---------------------- For additional information on the AUDIO-CD (TM),visit Digital Recordings' World Wide Web site: http://www.isisnet.com/MAX/digital.html You can also contact us by e-mail at digital@ra.isisnet.com, by phone or fax at (902) 429-9622, or write to us at: DIGITAL RECORDINGS - Advanced R & D 5959 Spring Garden Road, Suite 1103 Halifax, Nova Scotia B3H-1Y5, Canada Copyright 1990-1996 Digital Recordings, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. All rights reserved. ------------------------------------- From: Gerald Erdmann Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 17:16:17 +0200 To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: ProductionPartner 1.7 available now WELCOME TO PRODUCTIONPARTNER 1.7 RCN is pleased to present version 1.7 of ProdctionPartner, a professional tool for harddisk-recording, playing, editing and archiving of high quality (CD) sounds. You can rearrange, cut, paste and edit sounds. Sounds can be collected in archives called playlists which are unities within ProductionPartner. In addition text, images and movies may be used in a .rtfd file which is attached to each sound for description or background info on sound, like in a CD database. The program may be used to master audio CDs. PRODUCTIONPARTNER ProductionPartner is a NEXTSTEP application for recording, playing, editing and archiving of sounds. You can play, cut, paste and edit sounds. Sounds can be collected and rearranged in archives called playlists which are unities within ProductionPartner. Via documents (list of sounds) you can easily administrate sounds or search and find text marks. Therefore besides the sound data ProductionPartner stores additional informations (e. g. the author of the sound or any other comments) in .rtfd format. By the way sound files can be located on other machines within a network; the sounds will be linked or copied. Thus you can include graphics, videos or pictures in your audio archive just like in a multimedia archive. A comfortable sound editor permits displaying and cutting of sounds, subsequent level change and other effects. BroadcastPartner: We offer an extention for ProductionPartner called BroadcastPartner which offers you an automation of radio broadcast. Another extension to ProductionPartner to distribute music through networks for music production and publication firms is under development, special solutions are available. For further informations please contact RCN. Special features of ProductionPartner compared with other sound applications available for NEXTSTEP: * ProductionPartner is the only NEXTSTEP application which enables you to record sounds in CD quality (44.1 kHz, stereo) on intel hardware * ProductionPartner is a harddisc recording AND playing system, your swapdisc won't grow if you use big sounds. Therefore ProductionPartner doesn't need much more memory to play big sounds. * ProductionPartner can play sounds longer than six minutes. Because of a bug in NEXTSTEP normally you can't do this so almost all other sound applications fail to play such sounds! * ProductionPartner has a time bar to jump to any position in your sound or sound list WITHOUT delay during playback even using very large sounds! You can do this with a single mouse click. * The editor of ProductionPartner supports a reduction factor smaller one so you can zoom in as far as you want! Moreover, it's much faster than most of the other sound editors, and it needs less memory. * ProductionPartner offers you a frontend for making backups (tar format) of your sound library on a streamer or other devices. Support for NeXT Computer and Intel based NEXTSTEP systems is now available. For SUN and HP workstations ProductionPartner is available, too, to but for both architectures the current version is a beta release. ProductionPartner is a demo version which can be licensed. You find the newest version at the following internet locations: ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/NeXT/new/audio/apps/commercial ftp://peanuts.leo.org/pub/comp/platforms/next/Commercial/audio ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/demos/sound ftp://ftp.rcn.de/rcn/next At the moment the following prices are valid: $275 for the ProductionPartner 1.70 (user license) $295 for the ProductionPartner 1.70 (machine license) call RCN for a network license For getting a license or licenseable version please contact RCN; We accept MC, VISA, money order, whatever. Realtime Computing and Nets (RCN) Flotowstrase 2 D - 12203 Berlin Germany TEL + 49 30 834 01 07 FAX + 49 30 834 01 08 EMAIL info@rcn.de WWW http://www.rcn.de To order a license please send us the following informations: * Username and HostID (user license) * HostID (machine license) * Number of Users and one HostID (network license) RELEASE NOTES 1.70.0 - Completly reengineered memory sound management and a lots of optimizations - A better display performance of the sound editor especially if you work in a high resolution - Reengineered and colored icons - New "Delete" menu entry - Improved check if user's action is plausible - Some minor bugs was fixed 1.67.0 - New contact panel was added - Sound can be saved in WAV format - Improved handling after system crashs - Crash during the first launch ever was fixed - Improved check if user's action is plausible - Sounds with 8 bit samples played correctly now - Some minor bugs was fixed - First SUN and HP-PA release (beta) 1.66.0 - A lots of bug fixes and many performance optimizations - Level meter can be switch off 1.65.4 - Bug fix release 1.65.0 - First Intel release ProductionPartner was completelly overworked compared with version 1.5 which was only available for NeXT hardware ABOUT RCN Realtime Computing and Nets (RCN) was founded in 1989 by engineers who worked on research problems at the Technical University of Berlin; among others the research areas of RCN are acoustics, sound engineering, broadcast and radio management systems, audio and video database systems, digital signal processing, instrumentation, communication, satellite and navigation systems. PRODUCTS PC boards and interface cards for instrumentation and digital signal processing (DSP) in audio/video, acoustics, analysis of signal and system analysis, synthesis control and measurement, neuronal networks. NEXTSTEP systems and NEXTSTEP products. SUN, HP, Silicon Graphics, Apple, PC Intel DOS-Windows Systems. SYSTEM CONSULTING AND SERVICE Development of hard- and software according to industry needs and standards on customers' demands. Consulting and distribution of DSP hardware and software. NEXTSTEP support, Unix heterogeneous nets and system administration. DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING AND DEVELOPING SYSTEMS DSP cards, signal input/output interfaces, software and developing tools, Developments on customers' demands, DSP application software SOLUTIONS FOR NETWORK COMPUTING Internet services (World Wide Web, ISDN) System integrations, Multimedia databases APPLICATION AREAS Communication service and support, audio und video signalprocessing, data base applications, system engineering and control SPECIAL INTEREST Development of hardware and software in DSP (digital signal processing), DSP boards, multiprocessor systems, solutions in instrumentation, audio and video for multimedia applications, communication, ISDN systems and installations, acoustic design. With compentence and expert knowledge RCN succeeds in INDUSTRIAL PROJECTS in the following ranges: Digital signal processing and development systems, software and hardware for audio processing, measurement and instrumentation, radio, broadcast and professional music applications. Copyright (c) 1996 RCN Realtime Computing and Nets. All brand names mentioned are trademarks of their respective owners. ------------------------------------- From: Gerald Erdmann Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 17:18:54 +0200 To: nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: RCN goes Internet RCN GOES INTERNET Since October 1st RCN can be reached via email (info@rcn.de), via WWW (http://www.rcn.de) or via FTP (ftp://ftp.rcn.de/rcn). Our WWW and FTP service is still under contructing ... suggestions are welcome! ------------------------------------- From: Rick Sanford Date: Fri, 25 Oct 96 12:45:35 -0500 To: lsanfor@uswest.com (lauri sanford), matthew_kerr@next.com, nextmusic@zip.eecs.umich.edu, next-icon@gun.com Subject: New e-mail address announcement Reply-To: dental@precipice.com please note that our e-mail address has changed> was: dental@thoughtport.com now is: dental@precipice.com go figure! also our www site (under construction) is: http://www.precipice.com/~dental/ thank you Dental Records[tm] PO Box 20058 DHCC NEW YORK NY 10017 ------------------------------------- End of NeXTmusic Digest #943  1,, Summary-line: 31-Oct Jan Crittenden Sherfy #What about the DVC PRO show Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02669; Thu, 31 Oct 96 07:22:20 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28672; Thu, 31 Oct 96 07:22:19 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id GAA12993; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 06:22:41 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.7.3) id GAA03804 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 06:19:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from mercury.spaceworks.com (uucp@mercury.spaceworks.com [205.142.35.18]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA03782 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 06:19:28 -0600 (CST) Received: by mercury.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA17225; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:18:45 -0500 Received: from jupiter.spaceworks.com(205.142.32.2) by mercury.spaceworks.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017219; Thu Oct 31 07:18:17 1996 Received: by jupiter.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA07353; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:18:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199610311219.GAA03782@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 06:24 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: What about the DVC PRO show Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 06:24 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: What about the DVC PRO show Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Gonzalo Tapia wrote: snip so maybe Mr. Jan Crittenden JCS: First, I am a woman not a man. ;-) I have been want to do this for a more than a week now. We introduced several new products at the Next Generation Showcase: The hit of the show was the Laptop. Finally priced at $29,995.00 Should start deliveries in December. Two tape transports, two monitors and edit controller in a package that weighs less that 25 lbs and has a handle. It edits in the compressed domain, so you have a virtual edited clone. The two machnes can be controlled by an external device so they could be sources for an AB Roll System. This will be the ultimate Paradigm Shifting Machine. AJ-D200 3 1/3"chip full size DVCPRO camcorder that will take the 2 hour cassettes. List price without lens is $5995.00 Nice pictures. Due in February. AJ-D230 desk top DVCPRO machine $4995.00 Will have RS-232 control This could be the awsome desktop machine, due in February. AJ-D650 $9995.00 Studio machine similar to the AJ-D750 but minus the following Confidence playback during record, no edit control buttons(to act as an edit controller), no AES/EBU digital audio interface. The AES/EBU can be added, as can the Digital Video I/Os. AJ-D640 $8475.00 Good for anywhere a recorder/player might be used rather than an edit machine. All specs remain the same on the format. 5.75MgH Bandwitdh, 54dB S/N. Some machines exceed this S/N spec. JCS:Smart Cart which is a small Cart Machine with a little server built in and handles several tape transports as well and houses a small library of tapes. Expensive yet within range for small stations and cable facilities. GT: my country we are watching attentively to this DVC Pro stuff as a affordable means to enter the digital video capture, but only provided the possibility of transfering data directly from the camera (or deck) to the computer HD to be edited non-linear. JCS: Of course it would be best to use a deck so as not to prematurely wear out your camera. A camera just doesn't have the balistics nor robustness to consistantly have to deal with the batch digitizing rigors. JCS:At this time the first to deliver the interface will be Truevision, who is a strategic partner with Panasonic. There are many digital I/Os planned and IEEE1394 is one of them. The latest I heard on this one is that the Standards engineers are still hammering out how it will work. Perhaps there will be working models of this stuff at COMDEX. I get to go to that and am looking forward to the experience. Best Regards, Jan Crittenden Sherfy Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems GT:We knew that a new board from Targa was going into the market with a DVC port. Is this the only board? What about the firewire board that was to be released from Motorola and Apple (if I am not wrong). Would somebody talk about this? Thank you all. Gonzalo Tapia Wayna Pictures Asociados Av. Arequipa 1130-205 T/F: 470-0775  1,, Summary-line: 1-Nov David C. Jedlinsky #[dgf@noleak.MIT.EDU: hazing law] Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13865; Fri, 1 Nov 96 16:15:03 EST Received: from ipnh.mv.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19863; Fri, 1 Nov 96 16:14:56 EST Received: by ipnh.mv.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA24689; Fri, 1 Nov 96 16:14:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 16:14:40 -0500 From: David C. Jedlinsky Message-Id: <9611012114.AA24689@ipnh.mv.com> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: [dgf@noleak.MIT.EDU: hazing law] *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 16:14:40 -0500 From: David C. Jedlinsky To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: [dgf@noleak.MIT.EDU: hazing law] Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 13:30:16 EDT From: Dale Fried To: asa-official@Athena.MIT.EDU Subject: hazing law Hi, I typed up the Mass. hazing law so I could email it to everyone in my group. Since many of you may also need to distribute the hazing law (per ASA and state regulations), I'm mailing this text to you. Please feel free to use it. Dale --------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS HAZING LAWS 269:17, 18, 19 269:17. Hazing; organizing or participating; hazing defined. ============================================================= Section 17. Whoever is a principal organizer or participant in the crime of hazing, as defined herein, shall be punished by a fine of not more than three thousand dollars or by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than one, year, or both such fine and imprisonment. The term "hazing" as used in this section and in sections eighteen and nineteen, shall mean any conduct or method of initiation into any student organization, whether on public or private property, which willfully or recklessly endangers the physical or mental healthof any student or other person. Such conduct shall include whipping, beating, branding, forced calisthetics, exposure to the weather, forced consumption of any food, liquor, beverage, drug or other substance, or any other brutal treatment or forced physical activity which is likely to adversely affect the physical health or safety of any such student or other person, or which subjects such student or other person to extreme mental stress, including deprivation of sleep or rest or extended isolation. Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section to the contrary, consent shall not be availableas a defense to any prosecution under this action. 269:18. Failure to report hazing. ================================= Section 18. Whoever knows that another person is the victim of hazing as defined in section seventeen and is at the scene of such crime shall, to the extent that such person can do so without danger or peril to himself or others, report such crime to an appropriate law enforcement official as soon as reasonably practicable. Whoever fails to report such crime shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars. 269:19. Copy of secs. 17-19; issuance to students and student groups, teams and organizations; report. ====================================================================== Section 19. Each institution of secondary education and each public and private institution of post secondary education shall issue to every student group, student team or student organization which is part of such institution or is recognized by the institution or permitted by the institution to use its name or facilities or is known by the institution to exist as an unaffiliated student group, student team or student organization, a copy of this section and sections seventeen and eighteen; provided, however that an institution's compliance with this section's requirements that an institution issue copies of this section and sections seventeen and eighteen to unaffiliated student groups, teams or organizations shall not constitute evidence of the institution's recognition or endorsement of said unaffiliated student groups, teams or organizations. Each such group, team or organization shall distribute a copy of this section and sections seventeen and eighteen to each of its members, plebes, pledges or applicants for membership. It shall be the duty of each such group, team or organization, acting through its designated officer, to deliver annually, to the institution an attested acknowledgement stating that such group, team or organization has received a copy of this section and said sections seventeen and eighteen, that each of its member, plebes, pledges, or applicants has received a copy of sections seventeen and eighteen, and that such group, team or organization understands and agrees to comply with the provisions of this section and sections seventeen and eighteen. Each institution of secondary education and each public or private institution of post secondary education shall, at least annually, before or at the start of enrollment, deliver to each person who enrolls as a full time student in such institution a copy of this section and sections seventeen and eighteen. Each institution of secondary education and each public and private institution of post secondary education shall file, at least annually, a report with the regents of higher education and in the case of secondary institutions, the board of education, certifying that such institution has complied with its responsibility to inform student groups, teams or organizations and to notify each full time student enrolled by it of the provisions of this section and sections seventeen and eighteen and also certifying that said institution has adopted a disciplinary policy with regard to the organizers and participants of hazing, and that such policy has been set forth with appropriate emphasis in the student handbook or similar means of communication of the institutions's policies to its students. The board of regents and, in the case of secondary institutions, the board of education shall promulgate regulations governing the content and frequency of such reports, and shall forthwith report to the attorney general any such institution which fails to make such report.  1,, Summary-line: 5-Nov Kevin Grant Birmingham #RE: overseas advice? Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27632; Tue, 5 Nov 96 09:34:16 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12899; Tue, 5 Nov 96 09:34:13 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id IAA14626; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:30:32 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id IAA21127 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:28:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.inforamp.net (Mail.InfoRamp.Net [204.191.136.66]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA21055 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:28:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from ts56-04.tor.iSTAR.ca (ts56-04.tor.iSTAR.ca [204.191.142.104]) by mail.inforamp.net (8.7.3/8.7) with SMTP id JAA00862; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:21:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by ts56-04.tor.iSTAR.ca with Microsoft Mail id <01BBCAFB.41628BC0@ts56-04.tor.iSTAR.ca>; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:25:16 -0500 Message-Id: <01BBCAFB.41628BC0@ts56-04.tor.iSTAR.ca> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:08:22 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Kevin Grant Birmingham To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" , "'clesher@aristotle.net'" Subject: RE: overseas advice? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu id IAB21127 X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:08:22 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Kevin Grant Birmingham To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" , "'clesher@aristotle.net'" Subject: RE: overseas advice? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu id IAB21127 X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Chris, 1. Travel as light as possible. I take the least amount of personal belongings I can get away with. I have Tilley pants. They are great because they have lots of pockets and dry fast. And I have a Tilley hat (floppy brim). 2. Be very careful about what you eat. There are some excellent travel guides on this. i.e. no raw vegetables or fruit you haven't peeled yourself, be careful about meats, especially fish, drink only pop, bottled water, etc. I take along a 'wine skin' for water and chlorination tablets. 3. Take lots of batteries, I was in the middle of nowhere when my 12VDC charger fried and only had what was left on the batteries - take an extra charger! 4. I shoot with a Cannon L2 and a Sony TR101. I wish I had the stabilization lens for the L2. A lot of the time in small villages there is no time to set up the tripod, or the tripod is just too obtrusive. 5. I use a small wireless mic and attach it to a key individual or put it in an important location. It really helps. A common setup for me is to use a Y-adapter on the mic input and put the wireless in one channel and a shotgun mic in the other. 6. I will be very humid where you are going. Take along a sealable plastic bag with some of that moisture absorbing stuff and store your camera in it. You can buy that 'stuff 'at camera stores. 7. For the flight over I carry my camera and some batteries, etc. in a carry-on camera bag. The rest of my equipment goes in a hard-shell case. I take along an empty dufflebag in my luggage so that when I am on location I can repack what I need for the day in the camera bag and the dufflebag. I saves carting around a hard-shell case. Also, on the return trip my camera goes in the hard-shell case and the videotape goes in my carry-on. My luggage has gone missing a few times. I would rather lose the camera than the shot video. 8. Watch for 'culture shock'. After the tenth day in a row of rice for breakfast, lunch and dinner you will start to desire 'Big Macs'. This is definitely a sign that you have 'lost it.' Usually culture shock shows up as irritability, becoming withdrawn, making negative comparisons with home, sometimes depression. Take along something special from home. I always take along a couple of books. I made the mistake of taking along 'Roots' on my last trip to Africa - I couldn't get through it. 9. You will be on some kind of anti-malarial medicine. I find that some of them upset my stomach (especially chloroquine). Talk with your doctor about side effects so that you are prepared. A lot of people have problems with Mefloquine (Larium) - bad dreams, paranoia. It is important to know the side-effects so that you can recognize them and deal with them. You will be with a medical team, so you are one step ahead. 10. I carry a stenopad with shot lists and ideas written in it. On a documentary you basically get whatever happens, but I find that in the midst of a shoot I will forget the basics (cover shot, cutaways). Having reminders written down helps. I also log shots as I go. Actually what happens, is I faithfully log for the first few days, then I make a few incoherent notes after that, then when I get home I regret not having been more detailed. Remember to get the correct spelling of names and places at the time. The following is my pre-trip checklist (without the nice formatting that Word supplies). It may end up a scrambled mess over the e-mail. I keep this list around as I prepare for the trip. I don't take everything on every trip. Clothes Pants - 2 Tie and Shirt Underwear - 4 Headband/Bandannas Shorts Warm Shirts Socks - 4 Hat T-Shirts - 5 Jacket/Coat Shoes/Sandals Nylon Shell Miscellaneous Alarm Clock Short chain with lock Kleenex/TP Work Files/Notebook Flash Light (AAA) Clothes Pegs/Line Film Shields Bible/Journal Spare Glasses Spare Wallet Walkman/Tapes Diary Money Belt & Clip Plastic Bags 35mm Camera/Film Books Nail Clippers Water Bottle Computer Thank-you Cards Luggage Tags Foot Powder Dictaphone (AAA) Pens/Pencils/Hi-lighter Key Chain Pillow Prayer Book Locks Wash Cloth/Towel Candies/Snacks Toiletries Toothbrush/Paste Soap/Holder Scissors Cup Deodorant Shampoo & Packets Comb Towelettes Medicines Vitamins - Multi, Cs Gravol Ozenol Muskol Dequadin Pepto-Bismol Solarcaine/Caladryl Skin-So-Soft/Off Tylenol/Aspirin Imodium Suntan Lotion Anti-histamine Tums Fletcher's/Tanac Decongestant Band-aids Documents/Cards Tickets Yellow Book Enroute/Amex/Bell 'White' Book Passport/Visa Extra Visa Photos Expense Book Export Lists Addresses/Phone #s Equipment Video Camera NP Batteries AC Adapter Tripod 220V adapter DC Charger Tripod Plates Audio Mixer Shotgun Mic Monopod Blimp Mic Cables Lapel Mics Shock Mount Headphones Adapters Wireless Mics Wind Screen Lights Video Tape Camera Bag Gaffer/Masking Tape Pocket Knife 9V & AA Batteries Gym Bag Tool Kit Head Cleaning Tape Log Book Fanny Pack Test Meter Lens Cleaner To-Do Visas US/CDN Cash Confirm Flights Gifts Needles Traveler's Cheques Charge Batteries Canada/Ontario Pins Insurance Check Equipment Airport Limo Family Activity Shot Lists Yogurt Most importantly savor every moment of the trip, it will go fast. Get to know the people. Play with the children. Have a good time. Kevin Birmingham Canadian Baptist Ministries cbmcomp@inforamp.net ---------- From: Chris Lesher[SMTP:clesher@aristotle.net] Sent: November 4, 1996 5:51 PM To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: overseas advice? Hello all, Got any advice for someone about to go on his first overseas shoot? I've just found out I'll be traveling with a medical team to Cambodia and Thailand. From what I gather, we'll be going "up country" and hitting some villages, orphanages, and clinics. I'll be there to document it all with an EVW 300 Hi-8 camera and an EZ1. I've never shot outside of the US, and I'm really not sure what it all will involve. This will probably be the most time I've spent "in the field" in one stretch. I know I'll take plenty of tapes and batteries, but I'd appreciate any tips, technical or otherwise, the seasoned vets could send my way. :-) Thanks, Chris -------------------------------------------------- Chris Lesher clesher@aristotle.net  1,, Summary-line: 8-Nov MoovyMagic@aol.com #Re: SEG Question (again) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08646; Fri, 8 Nov 96 10:37:59 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12901; Fri, 8 Nov 96 10:32:35 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA04575; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:23:57 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id JAA14083 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:22:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.97]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA14060 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:22:27 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA21453 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:09:27 -0500 Message-Id: <961108100926_1814388352@emout06.mail.aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:09:27 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: SEG Question (again) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:09:27 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: SEG Question (again) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Sync -- A negative-going square-wave pulse of up to -4 volts, used as the master metronome in a video system. One pulse per line, one special pulse per field, one extra-special pulse per complete frame. HD - VD -- Horizontal Drive, Vertical Drive. Sawtooth or "ramp" waveforms that occur at the line and the field rate, respectively. SC -- A continuous sinewave at 3.58 mHz that acts as the color reference frequency, from which phase differences are encoded and decoded as color information. BL or BB -- Black Burst. (Sometimes also "GenLock") A brief shot of the 3.58 (9 cycles), and a one video line-long time period of reference black level. (With field and frame re-set pulses periodically. BFP -- I have no idea. Different devices either generate and send out, or receive and slave themselves to, these various signals for locking all devices together in framing and color timing. For example, BB is sometimes a signal out, like from a master house black reference generator, and all devices are locked to it. Sometimes, like on a camera, BB is called GenLock, and is a input, causing the camera to generate its frames in step with the rest of the complex system. Many, many devices these days need only Black Burst or GenLock to work properly. (HD and VD not used as much anymore.) I'd suggest finding a local open-minded engineer to give you a short course over coffee, and make some suggestions. Look also for some basic books. Most of the rest of your Q's are product-specific, and are well beyond what we can do here.... Enjoy! There's a lot to learn, and it doesn't come overnight. bb s1 In a message dated 96-11-07 22:29:26 EST, you write: << Sorry, My SEG is a KM-2000 with an AR-2000 Paltex interface. As far as sync goes, it has Sync Pulse Inputs and Outputs. There are 3 inputs labeled SYNC, HD, and VD. What are they? How are they used in a typical editing(linear) system? There are 6 outputs labeled SYNC, BL, HD, VD, SC, and BFP. Same questions, what are they? Also, the Paltex. The SEG seems to need it to function proberly, but I don't know what it does. It has three main controls: Frame Rate, Direction, and Ramp. Help? And in reference to the help given previously, a TBC was recommended. I have an external single channel TBC. Is that enough or do I need a dual channel TBC? Do I need something bigger? I feel so lost. Thanx for the help... >>  1,, Summary-line: 8-Nov Rick Pitchford #Re: SEG Question (again) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06767; Fri, 8 Nov 96 16:46:13 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09105; Fri, 8 Nov 96 16:46:05 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA19237; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:37:14 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id PAA28786 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:34:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.asic.csuohio.edu (bones.asic.csuohio.edu [137.148.16.17]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA28604 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:33:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from @bones.asic.csuohio.edu (137.148.40.11) by mail.asic.csuohio.edu with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc6); Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:31:40 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961108123116.1e67cde0@bones.asic.csuohio.edu> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:31:40 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Rick Pitchford To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: SEG Question (again) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: r.pitchford@bones.asic.csuohio.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:31:40 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Rick Pitchford To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: SEG Question (again) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: r.pitchford@bones.asic.csuohio.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN At 10:09 AM 11/8/96 -0500, you wrote: {snip} >HD - VD -- Horizontal Drive, Vertical Drive. Sawtooth or "ramp" waveforms >that occur at the line and the field rate, respectively. Horizontal and Vertical Drives are squared pulses. When combined they form composite Sync. {snip} >BL or BB -- Black Burst. (Sometimes also "GenLock") A brief shot of the >3.58 (9 cycles), and a one video line-long time period of reference black >level. (With field and frame re-set pulses periodically. BL is composite blanking. It is the signal that turns active video off intime for H and V sync. It is different from BB - Blackburst. Blackburst is the same signal you would get from a capped camera. It is generated by a circuit from the various drives produced by a sync generator. IT IS NOT THE SAME AS GENLOCK! Genlock is the circuit that takes in Blackburst or any other stable external signal and uses it as the reference for an internal sync generator. > >BFP -- I have no idea. Probably Burst Flag (Pulse). Used in "the olden days" to gate the subcarrier into a burst on the H. sync back porch. {snip} > As far as > sync goes, it has Sync Pulse Inputs and Outputs. There are 3 inputs > labeled SYNC, HD, and VD. What are they? How are they used in a typical > editing(linear) system? If you are using an external sync generator, you can lock the switcher to it by feeding it with the required signals. I would expect a subcarrier (SC) input as well. >There are 6 outputs labeled SYNC, BL, HD, VD, SC, > and BFP. Same questions, what are they? They allow you to use the SEG's internal sync gen to drive outboard gear such as camera CCUs, TBCs, CGs, etc. Hope this helps. Rick Pitchford, CSTE,CSRE Chief Engineer Dept. of Communication Cleveland State University Cleveland, OH 44115  1,, Summary-line: 10-Nov Richard L. Carreiro #Re: FX in "Trials & Tribble-ations"? Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06812; Sun, 10 Nov 96 02:01:38 EST Received: from wizard.pn.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06734; Sun, 10 Nov 96 02:01:30 EST Received: from pioneer.ci.net (pioneer.ci.net [205.136.67.65]) by wizard.pn.com (8.8.2/8.8.0) with ESMTP id CAA13121; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 02:01:28 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by pioneer.ci.net (8.8.2/8.8.0) with UUCP id BAA28821; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 01:59:10 -0500 Received: (from rlcarr@localhost) by animato.pn.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA00837; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 01:22:40 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 01:22:40 -0500 From: "Richard L. Carreiro" Message-Id: <199611100622.BAA00837@animato.pn.com> To: rlcarr@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: FX in "Trials & Tribble-ations"? Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.ds9 In-Reply-To: <3284B1D6.5DC1@themall.net> References: <55973k$c3a@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <55bedc$k3s@lynx.unm.edu> Organization: Just another Linux box *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 01:22:40 -0500 From: "Richard L. Carreiro" To: rlcarr@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: FX in "Trials & Tribble-ations"? Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,alt.tv.star-trek.ds9 In-Reply-To: <3284B1D6.5DC1@themall.net> References: <55973k$c3a@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <55bedc$k3s@lynx.unm.edu> Organization: Just another Linux box Here's a post supposedly from the director of the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ation" in rec.arts.startrek.misc. Thought y'all might be interested if you hadn't seen it: westjm@themall.net.net writes: >Hello... > >Thank you so much for your wonderful comments on the >show. Everyone in the cast and crew had just come off a very gruelling >episode and yet one could feel the excitemtent on the set every day of >the "Tribble" show. It can become dreary and depressing being >"stationed" on DS9 ten months out of the year. I'm sure we experience >stress symptoms similar to those of people who might be subjected to the >confinement of a space shuttle or orbital lab (or Deep Space Station). >It was a thrill for us all, and as director, I felt an added elation >having been chosen to bring it to the screen (tube). > >I made more notes than pages in the script. Every beat of every scene... >every shot was pre planned. Each department was responsible for >researching their phase of the show... we made a few little comprimises >and cheats but for the most part, we were true to the original. > >The corridor set for the Enterprise was re-built from the original >plans. (We finally omitted a part of one end for cost purposes). None of >the doors lead to other sets like in the original. > >Our bridge was a small section because we planned on using mostly >original footage. The K-7 bar set was duplicated and the half you never >saw in the original was built for us. We didn't build the bar portion >because again, we used original footage for that. > >The costumes were of original design, even the waitresses were exact >copies, down to the butterfly in the back (although the final cut >omitted >some detailed shots) > >There were slight differences in Tribbles because the original show >wasn't consistent from scene to scene. We had about 2000 of them made >for us. > >The Enterprise and K-7 were new models built and shot for our show. >They looked fabulous in person. The producers didn't want to stray from >the originals so some detail work was simplified to match. I was happy >with the new shots. > >We went to the Paramount vaults and used the original camera negative >shot in 1967. We also shot a different film stock for all the new >Enterprise and K-7 scenes... one that closer resembled the old negative >in grain, color renditions and sensitivity to light. All our scenes are >transferred from film to digital tape and the post production process is >done on tape and in the computer. > >We used blue screen and green screen to put our people in the >scenes. But we also used motion control cameras. They were programmed to >duplicate the moves the original camera made in 1967. The preparation >took weeks, sometimes a frame at a time for positioning. When the cast >was brought in, the camera glided along its predetermined path and the >actors performed based on the original scene. We had video monitors and >playback to make sure it all timed out. It was tedious for all of us, >but the result was worth it. After that, the visual effects team went to >work to marry the shots. A lot of hand "painting" and rotoscoping on the >computer was necessary to clean up backgrounds and extra body parts. >Frame by frame repositioning for some non-programmed shots as the >original camera made slight adustments. > >I studied the original epsidode closely. My visual style had to come >close to what had been done to afford us seamless cuts from shot to >shot. The look was very different than what we do on DS9. We made sure >to put those shadows on the walls, hard light sources, brighter colors >etc. > >The humor too, tread a fine line. Not too broad, a little tongue in >cheek but honest... We were looking for a warm hearted tribute and not a >parody or spoof of the show. I think we caught it. I loved the script... >it helps when it reads right. > >I'm so happy that you and other fans enjoyed it... > >Sincerely, > >Jonathan M. West (director) -- Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/Linux 1.2.13  1,, Summary-line: 12-Nov Vanessa Dickey #Re: No nuking Disney! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20097; Tue, 12 Nov 96 17:51:21 EST Received: from [204.77.222.253] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16849; Tue, 12 Nov 96 17:51:18 EST Received: from pine.cay.com (atlantis.cayintra.com [192.168.1.102]) by suez.cay.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18009 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:01:41 -0600 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:01:41 -0600 Message-Id: <199611130001.SAA18009@suez.cay.com> X-Sender: vdickey@canal.cayintra.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "David C. Jedlinsky" From: Vanessa Dickey Subject: Re: No nuking Disney! *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:01:41 -0600 X-Sender: vdickey@canal.cayintra.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "David C. Jedlinsky" From: Vanessa Dickey Subject: Re: No nuking Disney! Let me get my soapbox all set up here . . . When Mr. Walt Disney set up the Disney company, his prime focus was to create films for "the child at heart". Mr. Disney believed that there is no adult in the child but there's tons of child in every adult. He wanted to create films that appealed to this wonderfully universal and uplifting quality. For Mr. Disney's lifetime, the Disney company subscribed heartily to this philosophy and created some glorious animated films and shorts. After Mr. Disney's death in the late 60's, the Disney Company began to find itself more and more at odds with Mr. Disney's views. In the '70's and '80's the Disney Co. tried to reorientate itself and find its creative bearings, but with the retirement of many of the original Disney animators and the "jumping ship" of many new, very talented animators (Tim Burton and John Lasseter, director of "Toy Story" were among these new, up-and-coming animators who got disgusted and left), Disney found itself losing its precious heritage of Animation King. Enter Michael Eisner. With his marketing expertise and good business sense, he cleaned up Disney's Animation division and made it profitable again. He hired some incredible talented people and made sure Disney Animation was technolgically up to speed. But, unfortunately, Mr. Eisner was and is no artist. His focus was and is solely the bottom line. This, of course, makes for an extremely profitable business -- but usually sounds a death knoll for beautiful, well-written, strong story-line, enduring characters in an exquisite animated experience focused on the wonders of being alive. The emphasis on creating characters that will look good on a Burger King cup can choke the artist's imagination. When "The Little Mermaid" came out in 1989, Disney Animation returned in full force. "Mermaid" was a welcome sigh of relief among animation fans like myself -- it was funny, witty, clever, well-animated, with believeable characters and great music. Heady with "Mermaid"'s success, Eisner decided to let his now-cherished animators and writers have more freedom and okayed work on a film called "The Rescuers Down Under". The film was an exquisite, breath-taking journey into the outback of Australia utilizing the latest computer animation technology and beautiful attempts at creating real drama -- it was visual ecstacy. But among the mass market audiences, it was a flop. Eisner freaked out. He demanded a blockbuster film from the animation team to save his stock. The result of this scare was a quick backpedaling from more experimental animation and back into the "safe" waters of fairy tale story with hero and heroine with emphasis on good vs. evil plot. "Beauty and the Beast" was the result. "Beauty" was a good film, but the writers and animators couldn't decide whether they wanted it to be a comedy or a drama. This lack of focus made the film's plot jerk from scene to scene. When I saw "Beauty" for the first time in 1991, I was quite disappointed. And when "Beauty" was a raving success, I became worried. Would Disney ever venture out into the unknown, unexplored waters of animation again? The answer is "no." Disney Animation now sticks to fairy-tale type stories (or makes fairy tales out of stories) and markets the heck out of them. On a positive note, Disney does realize by sticking to "what's worked before" it is showing feet of clay. Their solution? To scout out other animation companies who are doing more experimental and "artsy" animation and strike deals with them. Pixar, Twitching Image (formerly Skellington Productions), and Jim Henson Associates are examples. The little company agrees to make a few films for Disney Co. for the priviledge of having the revered "DISNEY" on their production (which insures mommies will take kiddies to see it), and Disney gets a percentage of the toy, clothing, etc. sales as well as the opportunity to cash in big if the little company does something really extraordinary like "Toy Story." It's actually not a bad arrangement, IF Disney didn't have the awful tendency to "pull rank" when production doesn't meet their "standards." In "Toy Story"'s production, Disney "assigned" their own storypeople to "fix" the "problems" they saw in the plot. Thankfully for Pixar, John Lasseter and his cronies are not stupid and know when to fight and when to ignore. I believe Pixar will survive selling their soul to Disney Co which is mostly due to Lasseter and company's abilities not only in animation but also in playing the "game". The story of Twitching Image doesn't have as happy an ending. Henry Selick is the director credited with the films "Nightmare Before Christmas" and "James and the Giant Peach" in which stop-motion animation, a more European-type puppet animation. Mr. Selick is an artist. Unlike Lasseter, he isn't a negotiator. In the creation of "Nightmare", he didn't need to be -- Tim Burton, strong-man incarnate, did the brawls with Disney for him. The result was relatiave freedom from Disney for Selick. Sadly, though, Selick traded Disney for a Disney clone. Burton gave Selick much grief in production with his nitpicking and constant criticisms. The brillant film was made; Burton was happy -- but "Nightmare" wasn't the commercial success. Burton wanted to make another film using stop-motion, but didn't want Selick in charge, so he began to try to hire Selick's team of animators out from under Selick to work for him instead. Meanwhile, Disney had agreed to the second Twitching Image project "James and the Giant Peach" and having decided that Selick was to blame for "Nightmare"'s lack of marketing value, now expected Selick to "make it up" to them. Now that Burton was gone, Disney filled in in his absense. They refused to allow Selick enough time to complete filming of scenes to his liking, decided who to hire to do special effects needed for the film, and generally sneered at Selick's petitions. The result? An exquisitely beautiful film, well-written, incredibly detailed film that is a tribute to the spirit of the child inside us all, the Dahl estate, and Selick's patience and endurance. Disney's response? One television commercial and no other promotion. Without the traditional Disney promotional hoopla, "James" stayed in the theaters for a month and was more "proof" to Disney that Selick's work was worthless. I went to see "James" 14 times while it was in theaters -- I was in tears when Disney pulled it last spring. Selick and his talented Twitching Image crew have been "demoted" to working for Miramax (which Disney owns but uses to release its "unpromotable" films) with the assurance he will have more "creative freedom" -- which actually means even more cuts in funding and no precious "DISNEY" name for world-wide prestige. I fear greatly for Twitching Image's future . . . This blow to a talent I so greatly admire hurt me so deeply, I cannot bring myself to frequent any Disney Co. animated feature now. For sake of time, I won't get into the cruelty Disney inflicted on Jim Henson Associates after the loss of their patriarch, Jim Henson . . . For the theater-going public, more animated features will be forthcoming. For the animation fan who loves the art of animation as an art form and films that are for the "child at heart", there is the opportunity now to buy "James" and "Toy Story" and "Muppet Treasure Island" and watch them at home. And when Disney's next big smash hit comes out, that's where I'll be -- at home with these visual treats on. (And with a bow, I now retire from my soapbox . . . ) ;> "The Jack Point Page" http://cs.idbsu.edu/GaS/vpoint/indexpt.html (last update: 11 Nov 1996) Created and maintained by Vanessa.Dickey@cay.com "Wherewithal shall we please you?" --W.S. Gilbert, "Yeomen of the Guard"  1,, Summary-line: 13-Nov GBRENNAN@aol.com #Re: Insuring film production Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02375; Thu, 14 Nov 96 01:22:43 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07009; Thu, 14 Nov 96 01:22:40 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id AAA24875; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:14:41 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id XAA08812 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:58:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com (emout11.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.26]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA08413 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:57:39 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA28728 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:29:58 -0500 Message-Id: <961113212958_1350841049@emout11.mail.aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:29:58 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: GBRENNAN@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Insuring film production X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:29:58 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: GBRENNAN@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Insuring film production X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN I use Coulter & Sands in New York. They give people in the ITVA a good rate. ANYBODY who is in production - regardless of how big or small - should have insurance. If you can't afford it, you can't afford to be in business. If you have a house - perhaps an IRA - even your business assets, you can lose them if you are ever the cause of an accident (or if you are perceived to be the cause of the problem). A film (video/whatever) shoot can be construed as an attractive nuisance - or worse. If you're shooting on the side of a road, and someone who is rubber necking at what you're doing winds up crashing into a school bus killing a couple of kids or maiming them. . . Well, you better be prepared to pony up. If you are shooting a wedding, and someone drives into the wedding party because they're trying to watch what you're doing, you better be prepared to pony up. That's where insurance comes in. Insurance is a bet that you and the insuring company make. And you both hope they win the bet. There are two parts to production insurance - liability insurance that covers you and what you do (though it's not errors and ommisions), and production insurance (that can cover things like dropping a camera, a light falling from the grid and bashing someone, props that get destroyed in a fire before or during your shoot, and faulty negative and tape stock). If you've been in the business and understand copyright laws and other pertinent legal and ethical issues, I don't think you need to buy O&E insurance. I do believe you need production insurance and absolutely need liability insurance (especially if you have any assets).  1,, Summary-line: 19-Nov gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu #Soubrettes, baritones, tenors, and Poohs. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02268; Tue, 19 Nov 96 10:16:34 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28736; Tue, 19 Nov 96 10:16:28 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16909; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:11:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:11:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Soubrettes, baritones, tenors, and Poohs. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: WordPerfect Office 4.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:11:59 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Soubrettes, baritones, tenors, and Poohs. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: WordPerfect Office 4.0 Dear SavoyNet, This is an off the wall merging of threads typical of a mind rather askew from too little sleep. In yesterday's paper there was an article about the 70th birthday of Winnie the Pooh and his "thirtysomething" American Yuppie cousin, the "Disney Pooh." Actually, though I can Disney bash the latest offerings with the best of them, the original full length Disney Pooh movie was the first movie that we took our son Jimmy to and we have just purchased it in video as the first video for our new sons. However, I think I will draw the line at purchasing what the article refers to as the "29 different Pooh videos" that now exist. Sorry, we'll stick with A.A. Milne for everything else! Moving right along! Pooh Bear made me think of Tigger and Tigger, well... With apologies to Richard and Robert Sherman. The wonderful thing about tenors is tenors are wonderful things. Their top notes can cause you to shiver, and even their bottom notes ring. I won't say that they're bouncey, trouncey, Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Fun! Because that's letting ourselves in for satire and that should not be done! "B Section" Tenors are interesting fellas. Tenors are charming to meet. Of course, all the others are jealous. That's why I repeat and repeat. Continue in like vein until the other choristers drive you off the stage! Gene Gene Leonardi gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu  1,, Summary-line: 22-Nov Jan Crittenden Sherfy #Panasonic WebPage and DVCPRO Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12146; Fri, 22 Nov 96 17:24:59 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04208; Fri, 22 Nov 96 17:24:52 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA19272; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:07:15 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id HAA29948 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:32:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from mercury.spaceworks.com (uucp@mercury.spaceworks.com [205.142.35.18]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA29938 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:32:29 -0600 (CST) Received: by mercury.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA29276; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:31:39 -0500 Received: from jupiter.spaceworks.com(205.142.32.2) by mercury.spaceworks.com via smap (V1.3) id sma029271; Fri Nov 22 08:31:12 1996 Received: by jupiter.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA08664; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:31:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199611221332.HAA29938@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 07:03 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: "vidpro-l" Subject: Panasonic WebPage and DVCPRO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 07:03 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: "vidpro-l" Subject: Panasonic WebPage and DVCPRO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Keiran, Please have patience, at least on our website. We are working on it! If you have positive ideas, I'll pass them along, that goes for everyone else. ;-) Suggestions? (www.panasonic.com) First, thanks for asking about our newest products.;-) Now, for the specs on the AJ-D200. It has 3 double-density1/3" wide aperture pixel FIT chips giving it better than 500 lines.(I'll get more info on this, I am still unclear what this means, nor does the preliminary lit reveal what the pixel density.) I would give it a side by side with the Supercam. It is that level of camera. It can record on the 2 hour tape, perfect for events, legal and conference work. And in those areas of the country where Supercam is the news gathering camera, it would work there too. It does have an interchangeable Fujinon lens. It has a large professional size viewfinder. Many of the same types of controls that Supercam has. It weighs in at 11 lbs, with battery, viewfinder, and lens. Street-price I'm sure will be under $7000. The camera head is $5995. List. I'll soon get more details on lens pricing. It does do timecode(Rec Run only) and 48kHz Sampling for audio. Will have as options, an IEEE1394 port and a DVCS port. DVCS is for long runs, and IEEE1394, Firewire,tm Apple for runs less than 4.5 meters. (I'll find out more on DVCS). What else do you want to know? Now the AJ-D230. It will also have an optional port for IEEE1394, or DVCS. (I think also the other digital ports as well) It is controllable by RS-232, which I believe is native to the MCExpress(does any one want to confirm this?) It will perform a BackSpace edit, which means that if you just want to put it into a hard record for the entire tape, it would be a great machine for a non-linear system. It will not do animation. No jog and shuttle knob. Two can fit on a single rack shelf, for those automated playback systems like with an Eventmaster. It has the same quality record and playback as the AJ-D750. Cost is $4995. Video ins are Y/C and Composite, RCA for Audio. No Proc Amp controls. The mechanisms are also the same, so they are built for wear and tear. What else do you want to know? Oh yeah, one more thing, they are due in February. Let me know on the Web Page ideas or suggestions, and of course any questions on the DVCPRO product line, email the list or me directly, I'll post that I deem universally appropriate. Looking forward to your responses, Jan Crittenden Sherfy Panasonic Broadcast & TV systems  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 24-Nov Valerie L Walker #Bi-lingual funs (totally off-subject but funny) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27410; Sun, 24 Nov 96 10:33:17 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19498; Sun, 24 Nov 96 10:33:16 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA01818; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:28:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:28:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: wholebody@sfo.com (Valerie L Walker) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bi-lingual funs (totally off-subject but funny) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:28:47 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: wholebody@sfo.com (Valerie L Walker) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bi-lingual funs (totally off-subject but funny) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum >These are some of the winners of a magazine contest. > > Contest rules were simple: take ANY well-known phrase in ANY foreign >language, change JUST ONE SINGLE LETTER, and then provide a definition for the >new expression. > (These are in no particular order). > > HARLEZ-VOUS FRANCAIS? Can you drive a French motorcycle? > EX POST FUCTO Lost in the mail. > IDIOS AMIGOS We're just wild and crazy guys. > VENI, VIPI, VINCI I came; I'm a very important person; I conquered. > COGITO, EGGO SUM I think, therefore I am a waffle. > RIGOR MORRIS The cat is dead. > RESPONDEZ S'IL VOUS PLAID Honk if you're Scottish. > QUE SERA SERF Life is feudal. > LE ROI EST MORT, JIVE LE ROI The King is dead. No kidding. > POSH MORTEM Death styles of the rich and famous. > PRO BOZO PUBLICO Support your local clown. > MONAGE A TROIS I am three years old. > FELIX NAVIDAD Our cat has a boat. > HASTE CUISINE Fast French food. > VENI VIDI VICE I came; I saw; I partied. > QUIP PRO QUO A fast retort. > ALOHA OY Love; greetings, farewell; from such a pain you >should never know ... > MAZEL TON 2000 pounds of good luck. > APRES MOE LE DELUGE Curly and Larry got wet. > PORT-KOCHERE Sacramental wine. > ICH LIEBE RICH I'm really crazy about having lots of dough. > FUI GENERIS What's mine is mine. > VISA LA FRANCE Don't leave your chateau without it. > CA VA SANS DIRT And that's not gossip. > MERDI BIEN Thanks for nothin'. > AMICUS PURIAE Just a Platonic friend. > TOYOURS TRISTESSE May you and yours be unhappy. > > Obviously, the French and those oh-so-dead Romans are ahead on points. If >you know of any examples in German, Russian, or (tricky, this) Japanese or >Chinese, please send them along. > > > - Ronald A. Frakes, 102630,3222 @ 22-Nov-1996, 20:33:15 EST > via CompuServe >  1,, Summary-line: 24-Nov Jan Crittenden Sherfy # Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08262; Sun, 24 Nov 96 19:00:15 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08840; Sun, 24 Nov 96 19:00:14 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id RAA04698; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:56:53 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id RAA06884 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:55:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from mercury.spaceworks.com (uucp@mercury.spaceworks.com [205.142.35.18]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA06852 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:54:55 -0600 (CST) Received: by mercury.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA02235; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:54:06 -0500 Received: from jupiter.spaceworks.com(205.142.32.2) by mercury.spaceworks.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002226; Sun Nov 24 18:53:50 1996 Received: by jupiter.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA29423; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:53:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199611242354.RAA06852@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 18:40 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu, "Kieran Finney" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 18:40 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu, "Kieran Finney" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Keiran, I sent your Web Page ideas on to the group that is working with it. KF:The AJ-D200 looks great especially if it'll accept a 259M interface. JCS:Small typo here, I am sure you mean the AJ-D230 VCR as the 200 is the camera. KF:But how does it differ (except for 232 instead of 422 and smaller) from the 640, which is a player/recorder? Seem the same otherwise. JCS: AJ-D230 does not have Advance reference, nor any system controls, ie timing. There is no proc amp, and it only knows how to do a back space edit. The two digital interfaces we mentioned on the COMDEX floor were 1394and a new one DVCS. I talked to one guy from AVID who was MCExpress literate and he seemed to think that it would be something they would want to be able to do. The RS-232 is resident to the MCExpress. NAB should be real interesting. Now several weeks ago at the Next Generation Video Showcase I thought the engineering group also said that the SMPTE card would be available, but I see no mention on the preliminary literature. Nothing on the 259 but yet 1394, but no DVCS. So, go figure. When I see the "whites of its eyes" I will post the group. This would work as a non-linear recorder/player if you were willing to accept the following interface level, which is probably a good share of those doing non-linear. First, it is not a rendering machine nor an animation station machine. It can only do a hard record. It does a backspace edit which means that the software has to know how to do this or you will always edit in at the wrong point. So, if your non-linear system is able to playback at real time and you have proc amp controls in the system, you can save a bundle on the record/play deck for the non-linear editor. I see that it has a much larger application, that is automated playback systems at the college/university level, hospitals, and corporations. Here we have an excellent opportunity as they would be able to double the density of the playback system in the same geography. Plus the ease of repair, would be just too good to be true. (I was the Assistant Director for Media Services at Grand Valley State Colleges, with ten channels routed across campus. It was all done on three quarter inch and VHS and on days, was a total nightmare. ) Tape size, costs, stability reliability of mechanisms, quick access all are features that would be benefits the DVCPRO side has to offer the application. This machine and current control programs, like an EVENTMASTER would so greatly enhance that application, I can hardly wait to price it all out. It could also be used in a multi-media setting. Here I envision a CD-ROM based training module. Due to the extensive nature of the the program material, there is a need for more video than what fits on a CD-ROM, so you store the motion video on the DVCPRO Tape. Since the machine can shuttle at 100 times, it could serach to Time-Code much more quickly that any tape transport used in this application. It can help prove DVD authoring, so that until the price of the DVD Authoring comes in at a price that is affordable for everyone, we have the ability to try it out before mastering. Hope that helps understand the machine's application. All the best, Jan Crittenden Sherfy Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems  1,, Summary-line: 24-Nov Jan Crittenden Sherfy #Last words on MII, Hopefully. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08296; Sun, 24 Nov 96 19:00:40 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04154; Sun, 24 Nov 96 19:00:38 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id RAA04688; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:56:41 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id RAA06869 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:54:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from mercury.spaceworks.com (uucp@mercury.spaceworks.com [205.142.35.18]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA06853 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:54:55 -0600 (CST) Received: by mercury.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA02237; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:54:07 -0500 Received: from jupiter.spaceworks.com(205.142.32.2) by mercury.spaceworks.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002227; Sun Nov 24 18:53:56 1996 Received: by jupiter.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA29436; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:53:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199611242354.RAA06853@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 18:42 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: "Tim Gunkel" Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Last words on MII, Hopefully. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 18:42 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: "Tim Gunkel" Cc: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Last words on MII, Hopefully. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Hi y'all, I just got back from Comdex and in downloading my mail and trying to get caugt up I found the following comment from Tim Gunkel: TG:MII is like Sony Betamax...it might have been a good format, but if nobody owns the machines (except for NBC affiliates and people who had to own them because they did work for NBC) what good is it? JCS: First it records an analog Component Signal that is in accordance to the SMPTE Standard established in 1985 or so. All of the MII machines have and do conform to one standard at every level of expenditure. MII's customer base is as varied in application as the Betacam market. I have producers/facilities using it for the high end event videography, corporate, government, Post to D5/D1 High End Production and Broadcast as well, outside of NBC. As an example the Delay-time Broacast Center in CBS New York has two Cart Machines filled with MII machines. These facilities enjoy a cost/performance benefit that the Sony only facitlities do not. And most MII facilities have at least one Betacam Deck. My point is that when you send out your final copy on Betacam, you have the same quality on the Dub as you would only if you had produced the product on the BVW series of machines(Including the Acquisition!). TG:If you work in a closed environement, and don't exchange tapes other companies, and don't get remote stuff shot for you by freelancers, you might consider MII. JCS: What most MII facilites do to handle this is to use that Betacam machine on the source side as well. And then they limit the freelance work to those Professional Shooters that have minimumly a BVW300 or a BVV5 docked to camera head of choice. This helps them maintain a high quality full bandwidth production. That BetacamSP machine generally is a PVW minimumly and they use the Metal Particle Tape if the BVW machine is the one in the rack. TG:But if you work with others, there's not much reason to go anywhere but Beta. Or, if you can afford it, d-Beta. JCS: Or DVCPRO, so that you can transition to Digital with your next machine purchase and spend less than half of what you would spend for a BetacamSP, with better than BVW signal quality results. If no one had MII we would have way too many in inventory, and we don't. We do have a business to run as well, and our accountants would not allow such folly. (We would have 125,000 in stock). There is no argument that Betacam SP was the winner as far as market share. But to deny that MII customers have enjoyed a cost/performance benefit, is also folly. Matsushita Electric Industrial re-engineered MII machines honing their reliability and performance each time, so that we can offer the AU-66H for $22,000 and it performs as well, and does everything that the BVW-75 does. The BV-W75 costs $52,000. All current MII machines have a full functioning TBC with adrop out compensation scheme that is full field, as opposed to the 32 line window on the BVW. Also the MII heads last for @2500 hours as compared to the current trend in the Betacam Head wear(see Broadcast Technology, Oct 1996) and they cost less than $2000.00 installed as compared to Betacams $3600.00; that is the going rate for the BVW-75. It is a due to the Art of Re-Engineering that the current MII machines exist, and with that, I hope this draws the MII flames to a close. I am not arguing Market Share, BetacamSP won, but I will most definately defend my customers' decisions to take advantage of the cost/performance benefits that MII can bring to any production facility. Best regards, Jan Crittenden Sherfy Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems  1,, Summary-line: 25-Nov Jonathon Weiss #DLT drive Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01853; Mon, 25 Nov 96 18:09:04 EST Received: from DELIVERATOR.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02710; Mon, 25 Nov 96 18:08:45 EST Received: from jweiss@localhost by deliverator.MIT.EDU (8.8.2/4.7.4) id XAA16281; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:08:43 GMT Message-Id: <199611252308.XAA16281@deliverator.MIT.EDU> From: Jonathon Weiss To: sipb-afsreq@MIT.EDU Cc: sipb-office@MIT.EDU Subject: DLT drive Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:08:43 EST Sender: jweiss@MIT.EDU *** EOOH *** From: Jonathon Weiss To: sipb-afsreq@MIT.EDU Cc: sipb-office@MIT.EDU Subject: DLT drive Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:08:43 EST Sender: jweiss@MIT.EDU I remember that around the time SIPB bought the DLT drive, there was some discussion of the fact that it was not streaming. In the last few weeks ASO has moved some of its DLT drives onto a Solaris (2.3) sun for use with non-AFS backups. Teh drive was very slow (much slower than an exabyte) until the following lines were added to /kernel/drv/st.conf: tape-config-list = "Quantum DLT4000", "Quantum DLT4000", "DLT-data"; DLT-data = 1, 0x26, 0x4000, 0x19, 4, 0x83, 0x82, 0x81, 0x80, 3; I don't know if the non-streaming problem was ever solved, or if this will help, but I don't see anything like this is installed on bill, so it might. Somoeone doing an afs backup might want to try installing these lines (and rebooting?), and seeing whether the performance improves any. I believe that the numbers were translated from sunos, where they were probably gotten from a vendor. Jonathon  1,, Summary-line: 4-Dec Rebecca Consentino #Re: Good Show Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18580; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:56:03 EST Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06778; Wed, 4 Dec 96 13:55:25 EST Received: by powerpc.emmanuel.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA19681; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:51:59 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:51:59 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino Subject: Re: Good Show To: "Morrison, John H" Cc: "'gsp-discuss@mit.edu'" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:51:59 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino Subject: Re: Good Show To: "Morrison, John H" Cc: "'gsp-discuss@mit.edu'" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I recently read a book by L. Sprague de Camp. It is entitled "The Undesired Princess." 1951. It's a fantasy book about an MIT graduate who is transported into a "two-fold" world, where everything is either-or (no inbetweens), unlike this world where everything varies by degrees. His reasoning is so wonderful that he becomes named king of this world (much to his chagrin -- he only wants to get back to his work at home! How typical.). John's email reminded me of a loverly quote in it... Our hero gives a speech to a large crowd, and his audience stands silent for a few moments before bursting into thunderous applause. Our hero then thinks to himself something to this effect: "I couldn't tell if their recation was because they were glad I had finished, or if it was a case of 'If this young man expresses himself in terms too deep for me, why what a very singularly deep young man this deep young man must be!'" =) Becca  1,, Summary-line: 4-Dec BBAP49@aol.com #Re: OK, AUDIO COMPRESSION...another try Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28884; Wed, 4 Dec 96 22:38:00 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24625; Wed, 4 Dec 96 22:37:52 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id VAA17766; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:04:17 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id RAA24515 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:42:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA24108 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:40:34 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA07257 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:05:00 -0500 Message-Id: <961204160458_807409982@emout18.mail.aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:05:00 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: BBAP49@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: OK, AUDIO COMPRESSION...another try X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:05:00 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: BBAP49@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: OK, AUDIO COMPRESSION...another try X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > I, once again, am going to be making a commercial to air. I want my >audio to be loud enough to match commercials, but I know my VU meters >need to have normal levels. This is a good start toward good sound. ;-) >I understand the answer is compression, Part of the answer is compression, but more on that later. >here's what I'm working with in terms of audio gear.... > I have an MXP 2000 (Sony) board with compressor/limiters (4 of 'em) >that have 5 knobs on them....attack, release, ratio, thresh (for >comporessors), and a thresh knob for limiting as well. I also have a >M100 with sound 16 in it. Which will give me the best results??? What >do attack/release/ratio and thresh do? What should my settings be so I >get more uumph on the level without running into the station's limiter? >Erik The "attack" controls the speed at which the compressor reacts to incoming signals and turns them down. You want to set the attack just fast enough to control levels but not so fast that everything ends up sounding funky. If the knobs have MS settings on them start with about 3MS (that's three milliseconds) and experiment from there. Too fast an attack time will actually make some things sound dull and take the "umph" your're looking for out...too slow of a setting and the beginning of the sound will be loud followed by a noticable reduction in gain. The "release" controls how quickly the compressor turns the sound level back UP during the decay of the sound. Try about 2 to 3 tenths of a second for the release control and adjust from there. If the release is too fast, the compressor may sound like it is "pumping"...too slow and you may not bring up the lower levels quickly enough and they may get lost in the mix. This is especially true of the voice over with music in the background. The "ratio" controls the amount of change the compressor makes to the signal expressed as a ratio of input decibel changes to output decibel changes. In other words, a ratio setting of 4:1 would mean for every 4 dB increase at the input you would have a 1 dB increase at the output. Start with about a 2:1 ratio and adjust from there. I seldom use more than about a 4:1 ratio for television mixing because the artifacts of heavier compression tend to make things sound somewhat muddy on the air. The "threshold" controls the level at which the compressor starts to do its thing. Too high a setting and there is no compression. Too low and the compressor will bring up a lot of noise especially at the beginning and end of the spot where there is no sound. The compression controls should have a VU or Peak meter to show you how much you are compressing. Start with about 3 to 5 dB of compression and and adjust from there. Unless you have a very quiet studio and very quiet equipment, more than 10 dB of compression can really make the noise increase noticable. Remember that the ratio and and the threshold controls may both change the amount of compression you're applying so an adjustment to one may call for an adjustment to the other. The "threshold" on the limiter controls the level at which it operates. A limiter is usually just a compressor with a very fast attack time and a fast release time (usually not adjustable) and a compression ratio of 10:1 or greater. Setting the threshold too low will cause pumping and an increase in the noise. It should be set so that it just takes off those peaks which might be troublesome. Regarding the station's limiter...you will run into it and you will run into any limiter used when the tape is dubbed to the betacart machine or whatever the station uses to air the spot. Depending on the station, there will be various amounts of compression and limiting applied to the audio signal. Keep this in mind when applying any processing to your audio. Sometimes less may be better. One tip to try to make your spot stand out is to mix it a little "thin". Use a LITTLE EQ to roll off some of the lower frequencies (below about 100 Hz). You can afford to drop maybe 3 to 5 dB. You could also boost the presence range a little bit. 2 to 3 dB EQ boost at a center frequency of about 5 kHz. will help the spot "cut through". Don't overdo any of this however. Whatever EQing you might do AVOID boosting at the extreme high end and the extreme low frequencies because the time it that heavily EQ'd signal gets on the air, the dynamic processors the audio goes through will cause the mids to be pushed down in level .The resulting loss of the mids will make your spot sound softer since the average TV has lousy, little tiny speakers with very poor high and low freq response. Be sure if you're mixing a stereo spot that the compression you are using has the ability to compress the left and right channels exactly the same way. Processing each channel independently will result in whatever is in the "center" to jump around in the stereo spectrum. You might be better off just to compress and limit the voice in the spot and leave the music raw. I know this is long...I hope it helps. Bill Brophy Owner Bill Brophy Audio Productions Youngstown, OH.  1,, Summary-line: 6-Dec BBAP49@aol.com #RE: OK, AUDIO COMPRESSION...another try Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04833; Fri, 6 Dec 96 17:52:21 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15662; Fri, 6 Dec 96 17:52:20 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA01330; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:42:57 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id QAA22320 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:35:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com (emout02.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.93]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA21603 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:32:32 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA26413 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:22:36 -0500 Message-Id: <961206172234_1119428994@emout02.mail.aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:22:36 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: BBAP49@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: RE: OK, AUDIO COMPRESSION...another try X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:22:36 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: BBAP49@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: RE: OK, AUDIO COMPRESSION...another try X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN On 12/6/96 Rick Johnston wrote in part: >An engineer from a prodco specializing in commercials once told me that he set his tone to -3dB to bring up the level of the program material. The broadcast (network) engineer would then boost the level of the tone to 0dB for airing, giving the spot's soundtrack a +3dB edge over the others. >I personally believe that bad-sounding audio has seen (or heard!) its day. Today's viewers are more savvy, and many have their TV's hooked up to their stereos. If you're used to a dynamic range of 80+dB, what happens to your perception of the sound when a spot comes on and the dynamic range is limited to 3dB (which is generous, considering what I've seen lately while viewing local newscasts). A spot with a track that contains decent dynamic range -- and (God forbid!) silence -- can attract attention to itself simply by not blasting me out of my chair. >>On the other hand, we've sent out many a spot with good dynamic range, only to have the hacks in Master Control pump it up 10dB so it sounds as loud (overall) as the spots it's sandwiched between. All television station use varying amounts of compression and limiting on their signal and usually leave the limiter on when dubbing the spot. Chances are that it wasn't the people in master control as much as it was just the equipment, besides how is he supposed to know that you want your spot to be only half as loud (10dB down) as the ones surrounding it? He just thinks you screwed up. With all due respect, what this guy accomplished by setting his tone at -3 was to drive the limiting and compression harder thereby further reducing the dynamic range of the spot. Did he really make his spots louder? No ... just more compressed. Perhaps they sounded louder than the the soft part of the program that proceeded it, but in most cases they wouldn't really be louder than the spots that surrounded them. He also ran the risk of adding distortion to the audio. While I agree that there is plenty of bad ... no, make that godawful ... sound on television (especially, but not only, on spots) the lack of dynamic range doesn't bother me as much as it does Rick. What bothers me more are voice-over spots where the voice-over was recorded using a lav or a shotgun someplace in a back room of the video production house with poor acoustics instead of in a proper audio studio. What bothers me are the spots where the lousy limiters on the VTR were used and driven so hard that they pump like crazy. What bothers me are the spots where the dynamic range on the voice is so great, because the proper tools were not used, that parts of words are lost in the background music. What bothers me are the spots where the music is so soft in the background that instead of adding mood to the spot and supporting the copy, it is just this indistinguishable noise in the background. In short, what bothers me are the video production people who think in terms of the pictures first and the sound as an afterthought instead of remembering that it is the TOTAL package that counts ... THE SIGHTS AND THE SOUNDS. Please don't get me wrong this is not a flame. It's just that I'm an audio guy and all audio guys are wierd. Bill Brophy Owner Bill Brophy Audio Productions  1,, Summary-line: 6-Dec Michael Blum #G&S Subtitles Quiz Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26176; Fri, 6 Dec 96 20:56:00 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08107; Fri, 6 Dec 96 20:55:58 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA22663; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:55:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:55:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <32A888AA.17BF@michaelblum.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Blum To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S Subtitles Quiz X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.bridgewater.edu id UAA22663 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:55:56 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Blum To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S Subtitles Quiz X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.bridgewater.edu id UAA22663 I couldn't resist posting this. Special thanks to my 13-year-old son, David, who got more of these than I did (and he's never seen an actual performance of one of the canon. He's heard them, though!). 1. Good length words. The Gods Grown Old 2. Let us try out death. =09 The Statutory Duel 3. Shh! Lavatories as allotted. =09 The Lass that Loved a Sailor. 4. Reporter shows off legs. The Flowers of Progress 5. Hefty lout saved. The Slave of Duty 6. OK if it arrange bath? The King of Barataria 7. Rubber on this end. Bunthorne=92s Bride 8. An' I'm the shy admirer - Damn! The Merryman and His Maid 9. Parent tepid here, eh? The Peer and the Peri 10. Crush wet ethics. The Witch=92s Curse 11. Can't data males. Castle Adamant 12. Ten foot up with it. The Town of Titipu Interesting no subtitle to Trial? Probably because it's an enlargement on the Bab Ballad. Speaking of Trial =97 long ago (as far as this net is concerned) there wa= s chat about singers garbling text. In my production of TBJ in Sou. Ill. in 1980 the Usher would intone, correct him as we tried, "Condole her with distress of mind." I've often wondered about the image this conveys!  1,, Summary-line: 7-Dec Robert E Lamm #Betamax & VHS Clarification Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15269; Sat, 7 Dec 96 00:57:55 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23139; Sat, 7 Dec 96 00:57:54 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id XAA23462; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:53:46 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id XAA09685 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:52:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA09668 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:52:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id AAA04204; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 00:51:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19661; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 00:51:14 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 00:51:14 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Betamax & VHS Clarification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 00:51:14 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Robert E Lamm To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Betamax & VHS Clarification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > As someone who worked on 3/4, Betamax and VHS I have this to add: > Sony developed Beta as a "home" format based on all the R&D for 3/4" > which they pioneered. Then they got greedy and decided not to market > the manufacturing rights to Beta as they had for 3/4. Matsushita, not > wanting to be frozen out of a new potential market (no one knew at the > time how huge it would get) put together VHS based on the old EIAJ > 1/2" open reel machines. This accounts for Sony's claim as they were > the EIAJ developer. Note that 3/4" and Beta both use a Beta head wrap, > while EIAJ and VHS both use an Omega wrap... > Matsushita out marketed Sony on the VHS, even though the Betamax > was a technically superior format. Not the first or last time this has > happened... > I have heard numerous stories regarding this technology > transfer/hijacking. The story which aired some time ago on 20/20 > indicated that Ampex was the originator of the helical scan format > (whether they new what they were doing when they let it go, only the > accountants know for sure). Their spokesman indicated that the recipient > of this technology was a Japanese company and memory fails here as > to just who it was. > Trivia question: What American entertainer was heavily involved in the > research & development of a video tape format prior to the successful > Ampex quad machine? Ampex developed the first practical video tape recorder. They had developed the first audio-tape decks from German WWII wire-recorders (with financing from Bing Crosby, a big radio/movie star who thought it would be useful in radio production), and tried to transfer this technology to video. Ampex had problems with the extremely high data rate until an engineer named Ray Dolby came up with the idea of the 'quadruplex' rotating video heads that inscribed a high-speed signal on the low-speed tape. (Dolby was so angered by the poor subsequent remuneration that he received that he vowed never to work for anyone else again and set up his own company.) The original decks were quite large, about the size of several full-size refrigerators, and used reels of 2" tape. Ampex licensed the technology to several other companies, but RCA was the only other company to really market them to U.S. broadcasters. Attempts were made to produce smaller, cheaper B/W decks for industrial use using 1" tape and 'helical scan'. This made for the ability to get scanning and freeze frames (albeit very imperfect) at the expense of timebase stability. (The pictures weren't broadcastable.) Companies like Ampex, IVC and Sony made them. But each company had its own recording standard, including reel style, tape path parameters and recording method, so you couldn't play Ampex tapes on a Sony machine, etc. Very few of any of these machines were ever sold: they were still too bulky, heavy, unreliable, and expensive. But the main obstacle was probably that most potential users still thought of moving pictures as the 16mm film they had seen in hi skule. Debates raged in the trade magazines as to whether Regular or Super-8 film would become the A/V imaging format of the future... Sony, Panasonic, Shibaden and some other Japanese manufacturers decided to give it another stab, and came up with even smaller machines based on 1/2" tape. These were also not compatible with one another. After poor initial sales results, they pooled their R&D together and standardized the format into what became known as EIAJ (Electronic Industries Association of Japan). These sold pretty well by the standards of the day. People like John Lennon and Yoko Ono were seen taping peace events with their Sony Portapak (portable camera-deck combo) and TVTV even covered the political conventions from a 'counterculture angle' (it eventually aired on PBS). EIAJ had some serious drawback, though: The reel-reel tapes were very easily spilled, misthreaded and eaten, color recording (a feature added later) wasn't very good. Sony, Panasonic, JVC and Teac got together and came up with a successor cassette-based format with wider, 3/4" tape and better signal quality. This was known as U-Matic. (They thought the tape loop out of the cassette was sort of 'U' shaped'.) The original idea was that this would appeal to the home recording market, and Sony thought their best-selling machine would be the VO-1800, the model with the tuner. This was not to be: The public (if it was even aware of the machines) ignored them. But CBS labs in Connecticut had been working on digital time-base correctors which could handle the large jitter inherent in the low-end helical scan recorders, and once these pictures became broadcastable, 3/4" became ideal for newsgathering. Younger people may be surprised to hear that up until the early 1970's, stations had to be forced by the FCC to carry news. Local news always got low ratings because it was difficult to get film developed in time for the 6pm broadcast. Most stories consisted of the anchor reading about it and teasing the viewer with a promise of 'film at 11'. 3/4" changed all that by making it possible to show news footage of location events on the main broadcast, attracting respectable amounts of viewers and advertising, and suddenly news turned from a black hole on the balance sheet into a profit center. Now stations can run 2 or more hours of news in the early evening, it's the most profitable part of the broadcast day, and the unaffiliated UHF stations that used to counterprogram the news hole are now trying to offer news programs of their own. Finally with a tangible market established, manufacturers started making the accessories that made video post-production possible. Companies like CMX (a CBS-Memorex co-venture) made edit controllers, CVS (A CBS Labs spinoff) made TBC's etc. For the first time, a sizable non-broadcast market grew up, willing to buy 3/4" technology they were seeing demonstrated on TV. Companies like Ikegami (cameras), Chyron (character generators), MicroTime (TBC's) were at their peak. In the late 1970's, Sony figured the market might be right for another stab at a consumer format. Their intention was to take the U-Matic cassette and shrink it to EIAJ size. They also wanted to be able to record more than an hour on the tape. To squeeze the additional info on the smaller cassette, they developed an 'offset azimuth' recording system that eliminated wasteful guardbands in between the video tracks. They also changed some of the recording frequencies to accomodate the lower tape speed, but not so much so that they would have to change the color recording frequency. They wanted to keep the same 688KHz color carrier so that the new format could make dubs from Sony 3/4" decks using the unique higher-quality Y-688 port that Sony's 3/4" machines had. The new format was called Betamax. (After the U-matic-type path the tape takes in the deck.) Sony tried to license Betamax to other manufacturers. Zenith, Sanyo and some others took them up on the offer but most declined. The situation was simply too unclear: They weren't sure if the machines would catch on with the public, it wasn't clear what the legal ramifications were of selling a machine that allowed people to record copyrighted programming, and there was the collective industry memory of the stereo and CB booms that had petered out after a short stretch and left everybody hanging. So Ampex and RCA decided to concentrate on the high-end pro business that they already knew (1" was being developed), the rest of the big companies decided to sit this one out for a while while Sony went at it alone. Sony spent a fortune in advertising to educate the market. Then they were sued by MCA/Universal and Walt Disney for copyright infringement. This was a long and expensive battle, but Sony finally emerged victorious having established the right of consumers to buy VCR's and record copyrighted programs for home use without breaking any laws. At that point, sales started to pick up. Why was home video recording successful this time around? One could argue that this was the first format that was reasonably affordable, with portable cameras a consumer might be willing to use, properly publicised, and also benefited from being pitched to an audience familiar with the concept because they were seeing video recordings every day on broadcast TV. That's when JVC got into the market. I was told that they had bought some of Sony's R&D and finished it off into the official VHS format. VHS and Betamax are very similar in technical details: They both use the offset azimuth recording technique to fit more data onto the tape, the main difference is that the tape speed and cassette size are a little different to accomodate the longer VHS recording time. JVC also changed the recording frequencies a bit, again to accomodate the longer recording capacity. Although Sony has more of a historical committment to U-type wraps, both companies have used both types of wraps in the past. Sony used M-wraps on some of their 2000 series 3/4" decks, JVC used U-Matic in their 3/4" machines. Sony uses M-wrap on some DigiBeta machines, I'm pretty sure Panasonic uses U-matic threading on some of their 1/2" digital machines. JVC took VHS on the same licensing round as Sony, but this time the prospects were a little more interested. JVC also offered some very attractive terms: They would even manufacture the units for the other manufacturers and private-label them. Thus, companies like Big Boy Appliance could sell VHS decks with their own label on it without having to build a plant, hire any workers, etc. The slightly better user feature set, coupled with the much broader distribution that all the varied licensees offered virtually guaranteed VHS dominance from the start. VHS quickly grabbed 75% of the marketplace and never looked back. The Sony people weren't prepared for the popularity of extended-speed recording. When they finally copied it, they did it in such a spiteful way that it broke the Betamax line into two partially incompatible lines. The VHS people were careful to always stay ahead of Sony in recording cpacity as well as backwards-compatibility. Sony never got the market back. I never really bought into the 'Beta has a better picture' argument that Sony pushed. For one thing, I have always felt that there was more variablility in various models and even particular machines than the formats themselves. In addition, during the time when the two formats were battling it out, the consumer Beta machines didn't record the high-quality speed. All VHS machines have always supported the high-quality 2-hour speed. In addition, Beta fell behind in other respects. For example, they used belt drive in their machines long after VHS had gone over to the more reliable, better-performing direct-drive tape drives. Betamax suffered greatly from their smaller market, which deprived the Sony of the rich cash-flow available for continued development of the VHS format. This lesson remains valid today: it's very difficult to finance continued development of any high-tech product if your competitor has a much larger market share. One can find some niche (for example, high-end work) and exist in the more limited market. (As Sony did with a reworked version of Betamax- Betacam) But one always runs the risk that the larger market may wipe the niche out without even intending to. This happened in the past when desktop publishing wiped out a lot of printers, and may happen to Betacam if DV or a successor digital format gets popular. Other people have tried to introduce new formats. There was the Technicolor/Funai 1/4" format, the original Kodak 8mm video format, and the RCA videodisk. They all foundered because they were incompatible with the ever-more-dominant standard that VHS was establishing. I disagree with the sentiment that the Japanese stole US technology. These companies licensed everything they did, and usually added significantly to technology they bought. If we're going to look for a national source of magnetic recording, it would have to be Germany, where the wire recorder was originated that Alexander M. Poniatoff, the founder of Ampex, saw and decided to develop. In reality, video recording technology was the result of successive refinement by many people, all of whom deserve credit. Another wrinkle in the technology stealing wars: In the late 1970's I visited RCA in Camden NJ. They were eagerly trying to compete with Sony on the then-upcoming 1" broadcast deck. So they got Sony to send them a prototype machine and were furiously trying to copy it for themselves. This they eventually did, but the RCA versions worked so poorly that NBC, the RCA subsidiary that was the first victim of these machines, sent them back and got Sony's. The moral is: If you're going to steal technology, at least get it right. (RCA Broadcast is now out of business.) -Bob Lamm CYNC Corp. Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership  1,, Summary-line: 7-Dec MoovyMagic@aol.com #Re: Tropic Beaches and Turret Lathes. (Off topic) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03931; Sat, 7 Dec 96 09:30:45 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24887; Sat, 7 Dec 96 09:30:44 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id IAA19771; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:26:09 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id IAA09125 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:24:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA09116 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:24:26 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA21399 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 09:23:06 -0500 Message-Id: <961207092305_1287219947@emout16.mail.aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 09:23:06 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Tropic Beaches and Turret Lathes. (Off topic) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 09:23:06 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Tropic Beaches and Turret Lathes. (Off topic) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN In a message dated 96-12-07 02:18:35 EST, you write: << The wonderful world of video production allows us so much extra time! Mind you, I'm not complaining, there are not many other things I would rather be doing aside from kickin' back on an island somewhere with a cool drink in my hand and the hot sun beating down on me and I'll leave the rest up to your imaginations.... oh well, back to work! >> I agree. To be on a tropic isle... Strong drinks, soft breezes, attentive connies.... Ya know, I've been in several fields of endeavor in my time until I found TV. Medical research, RFI shielding and compatability, retail--when times were really hard, inside corporate at MeggaKorpGroup InterWorld Holdings, and yet I've never known a business---other than actual military combat---to be so often so chronically disorganized and irrational. In contrast, one of our sales appeals to corporate customers for our own productions is that we aren't that way. (It's even true!) We treat corporate production like factory manufacturing. Scheduled, anticipated, planned---with some conscious allowance for slop and error, and budgeted---with teeth. And it sells, and it works. Anybody with minimal grey matter can do this. Business people appreciate organized suppliers. Successful big businesses aren't operated on a "running and gunning" wing-it-as-we-go basis. And I don't want to get off into the area of creativity, except to recognize there is only a small amount of opportunity for any real creativity in movies like, "THE FRAMMUS CORP MODEL 8000 TURRET LATHE: SPINNING INTO THE FUTURE OF HIGH-SPEED METAL TURNING". We satisfy our creative juice replenishment on our advertising, environmental, and other special pieces more of our own. For the Tekno-Corpo movies we concentrate on excellent photography, and tight, sensible scripts. We had a guy come into our edit bay the other day for an on-line session completly unprepared and devoid of anything you could call organization. He laughed, and tried to chalk it up to, "...this wacky business we're all in." But he always comes in that way---and on cosmic emergency drop-dead deadline. Now, I'd love to say he was the exception; but he's not. He's the rule. And when the bill comes in for the edit, he'll call---as he always does---and diplomatically ask why it was so far above his budget---as it is every single time, no matter where he goes. It shouldn't have taken so long to cut the show. I agree. It shouldn't. One of my early mentors would pause as we were all exiting the studio all packed in a hell of a big hot rush to get to the location, and he'd say, "Stop. Pause. Think. At a time like this, thirty seconds of conscious thought will save your ass." And how often we'd remember suddenly something overlooked in the frenzy. So why IS this business so often so disorganized? I mean we've all considered Covey's Quadrants, we all have our Day-Runners, we all think we're well organized. (And we loose it sometimes, too.) I know other people who are in small businesses in other fields who work fewer hours than we do. (Most of them.) Maybe it's just, "...our wacky business." bb s1  1, edited,, Summary-line: 7-Dec Rick Johnston #RE: Tropic Beaches and Turret Lathes. (LONG) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17439; Sat, 7 Dec 96 12:55:39 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13594; Sat, 7 Dec 96 12:55:36 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA00888; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:51:00 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id LAA09627 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:48:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA09609 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:48:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from dppp27.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa10219; 7 Dec 96 12:56 EST Received: by dppp27.buffnet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BBE43C.D2E1BA80@dppp27.buffnet.net>; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:47:37 -0500 Message-Id: <01BBE43C.D2E1BA80@dppp27.buffnet.net> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:47:24 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Rick Johnston To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" Subject: RE: Tropic Beaches and Turret Lathes. (LONG) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu id LAB09627 X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:47:24 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Rick Johnston To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" Subject: RE: Tropic Beaches and Turret Lathes. (LONG) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu id LAB09627 X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN The record marathon edit session at our facility is 68 hours, and I was the (very tired) editor. Three different clients, three different projects, all booked for 10 hour edits, all went into major overtime. The first started on a Tuesday at 8:00 am. Went until 7:00 am Wednesday ... and so on. What could I have done differently? All were new clients, none had been involved in the post process before. All asked for whiz-bang effects, which I explained would take outrageous amounts of time. They HAD to have them in their shows. We made BITC dubs so they could sit at home with their VCR's and remotes and pick scenes. None did. (Well, one did, but she wrote down the VCR's log numbers rather than the burned-in time code.) And, of course, all of them waited until the day before deadline to post. In a tightly scheduled environment like post-production, if a client goes overtime by an hour, that hour cannot be recovered. It ripples the entire schedule until it finds the next one-hour hole. In most cases, that hole exists in the time allotted for sleep. It's the burden of client-based service businesses. In most cases, we can educate a first-time client and, as you said, treat their corporate production like factory manufacturing. The corporate mid-managers who don't understand what we do appreciate the professional approach. But the worst ones are the people who THINK they know what they're doing. We can't teach them anything. A Tale of Two Clients: Client #1 comes to us for a meeting to discuss post-production, which is scheduled for a week later. She has her ducks in a row. A half-hour meeting with the editor, graphics artist and audio eng gets everyone in sync. She has BITC dubs and will provide detailed shot lists in order, along with her As-Shot Post-Prod script. She tells the editor what special visual effects she'll need, if any. She gives the graphics artist stats so he can scan and treat logos (and animations) in advance. All CG text screens are built prior to the start of the edit (and we know whether they'll be supered with alpha or stand-alone screens). The audio guy schedules time in advance for VO narration, and knows what music and sfx he needs to build the track. She comes in on the day of the edit and ten hours later she leaves with the approval copy of her ten-minute program. Client #2 walks in an hour late for a scheduled ten-hour edit ("Sorry, I had to stop in at the office..."). He dumps his business card or hand-drawn logo off on the graphics artist (who is busy working on another project). And oh, by the way, we want a 3D animation showing this product from all angles. He places his box of assorted Betacam, 3/4" and VHS source tapes on the producer's desk in the Betacam-only edit suite and says, "My narrator should be here in an hour or so." Narrator? "So ... let's get started." Four scenes and an hour later (due to having to search through every tape to find the scenes), he remembers that the first scene needs CG to identify the talking head. And so on for 24 hours. At the end, we're all tired, and this guy wants to know why it took so long to edit a simple 10-minute program. ("It didn't take that long to cut my wedding on the equipment in my church basement!") Both scenarios happened last month. One was a corporate middle manager who had never made a video before. The other was an Art Director for a local ad agency. Can you guess which was which? Regards, Rick "Sometimes You Gotta Bite the Bullet" Johnston ---------- From: MoovyMagic@aol.com[SMTP:MoovyMagic@aol.com] (some stuff snipped by RJ) I've never known a business---other than actual military combat---to be so often so chronically disorganized and irrational. In contrast, one of our sales appeals to corporate customers for our own productions is that we aren't that way. (It's even true!) We treat corporate production like factory manufacturing. Scheduled, anticipated, planned---with some conscious allowance for slop and error, and budgeted---with teeth. And it sells, and it works. Anybody with minimal grey matter can do this. Business people appreciate organized suppliers. Successful big businesses aren't operated on a "running and gunning" wing-it-as-we-go basis. there is only a small amount of opportunity for any real creativity in movies like, "THE FRAMMUS CORP MODEL 8000 TURRET LATHE: SPINNING INTO THE FUTURE OF HIGH-SPEED METAL TURNING". We had a guy come into our edit bay the other day for an on-line session completly unprepared and devoid of anything you could call organization. And when the bill comes in for the edit, he'll call---as he always does---and diplomatically ask why it was so far above his budget---as it is every single time, no matter where he goes. It shouldn't have taken so long to cut the show. I agree. It shouldn't. One of my early mentors would pause as we were all exiting the studio all packed in a hell of a big hot rush to get to the location, and he'd say, "Stop. Pause. Think. At a time like this, thirty seconds of conscious thought will save your ass." And how often we'd remember suddenly something overlooked in the frenzy. So why IS this business so often so disorganized?  1,, Summary-line: 10-Dec Rebecca Consentino #Forwarded mail.... (fwd) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23522; Tue, 10 Dec 96 12:17:27 EST Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01914; Tue, 10 Dec 96 12:17:20 EST Received: by powerpc.emmanuel.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA20811; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:14:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:14:01 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) To: Rachel Breed , Brenna Pomeroy , opus@MIT.EDU Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:14:01 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino Subject: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) To: Rachel Breed , Brenna Pomeroy , opus@MIT.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 20:18:38 -0800 From: Corinna Dirrane To: Kelly Cc: Rebecca Consentino Subject: Forwarded mail.... >Merry Christmas! Love Corrie >> >> >> .:::::::::::... >> .::::::::::::::::::::. >> .::::::::::::::::::::::::. >> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::. >> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: .,uuu ... >> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: dHHHHHLdHHHHb >> ....:::::::'` ::::::::::::::::::' UHHHHHHHHHHHHHF >> .uHHHHHHHHH' ::::::::::::::`. uHHHHHHHHHHHHHP" >> HHHHHHHHHHH `:::::::::::',dHHuHHHHHHHHP".g@@g >> J"HHHHHHHHHP 4H ::::::::' u$$$. >> ".HHHHHHHHP" .,uHP :::::' uHHHHHHHHHHP"",e$$$$$c >> HHHHHHHF' dHHHHf `````.HHHHHHHHHHP",d$$$$$$$P%C >> .dHHHP"" JHHHHbuuuu,JHHHHHHHHP",d$$$$$$$$$e=,z$$$$$$$$ee.. >> "" .HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHP",gdP" ..3$$$Jd$$$$$$$$$$$$$$e. >> dHHHHHHHHHHHHHHP".edP " .zd$$$$$$$$$$$"3$$$$$$$$c >> `???""??HHHHP",e$$F" .d$,?$$$$$$$$$$$$$F d$$$$$$$$F" >> ?be.eze$$$$$".d$$$$ $$$E$$$$P".,ede`?$$$$$$$$ >> 4."?$$$$$$$ z$$$$$$ $$$$r.,.e ?$$$$ $$$$$$$$$ >> '$c "$$$$ .d$$$$$$$ 3$$$.$$$$ 4$$$ d$$$$P"`,, >> """- "$$".`$$" " $$f,d$$P".$$P zeee.zd$$$$$. >> ze. .C$C"=^" ..$$$$$$P".$$$'e$$$$$P?$$$$$$ >> .e$$$$$$$"="$f",c,3eee$$$$$$$$P $$$P'd$$$$"..::.."?$% >> 4d$$$P d$$$dF.d$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$f $$$ d$$$" :::::::::. >> $$$$$$ d$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ J$$",$$$'.:::::::::::: >> "$$$$$$ ?$$$$ d$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$P".dP'e$$$$'::::::::::::::: >> 4$$$$$$c $$$$b^$$$$$$$$$$$P"",e$$",$$$$$' :::::::::::::::: >> ' ?"?$$$b."$$$$.?$$$$$$P".e$$$$F,d$$$$$F :::::::::::::::::: >> "?$$bc."$b.$$$$F z$$P?$$",$$$$$$$ :::::::::::::::::::: >> ^"$$c"?$$$".$$$)e$$F,$$$$$$$' :::::::::::::::::::: >> ':. "$b...d$$P4$$",$$$$$$$$" ::::::::::::::::::::: >> ':::: "$$$$$".,"".d$$$$$$$F :::::::::::::::::::::: >> :::: be."".d$$$4$$$$$$$$F ::::::::::::::::::::::: >> :::: "??$$$$$$$$$$?$P" ::::::::::::::::::::::::: >> :::::: ?$$$$$$$$f .:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >> :::::::`"????"".:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >> >> > >Do you know how long it took me to do this? But isn't it neat? I can't stop grinning, myself. >  1,, Summary-line: 13-Dec BBAP49@aol.com #Re: Sound deadening again Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10211; Fri, 13 Dec 96 17:03:04 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06586; Fri, 13 Dec 96 17:03:01 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA08314; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:53:53 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id PAA22926 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:52:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA22877 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:52:35 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA16010 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:52:13 -0500 Message-Id: <961213165212_2085152471@emout18.mail.aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:52:13 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: BBAP49@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Sound deadening again X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:52:13 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: BBAP49@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Sound deadening again X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN On 12/13/96 Kerian Wrote in part: >Thanks to all who have proferred suggestions. I found a book , dsigned for engineers, with all kinds of graphs, and calculations (reminded me of physics, which I hate). One thing that the book should have is the formula for studio ratios that will help cut down on reinforced frequencies. The several ratios prefered H:W:L (height to width to length) are ... 1:1.14:1.39 or 1:1.28:1.54 or 1:1.50:2.40 or 1:1.80:2.10. Since you are going to the trouble of building a wall within a wall, you might keep these ratios in mind. by using them you can avoid creating a room that, even with Sonex, might color the sound. Allso since you are going to the trouble of doing this building, the suggestion of building the walls nonparallel is a wise one.This helps cut down on standing waves and may even mean less expense on wall treatment like foam. You can leave the wall surfaces harder and add some "life" to the sound but retain a flatter room frequency response. Good Luck! Bill Brophy Owner Bill Brophy Audio Productions Youngstown, OH  1,, Summary-line: 13-Dec Mark Eichin #Re: MMMMMM, CHOCOLATE Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26469; Fri, 13 Dec 96 18:48:14 EST Received: from cygnus.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27132; Fri, 13 Dec 96 18:48:12 EST Received: from tweedledumb.cygnus.com (tweedledumb.cygnus.com [192.80.44.1]) by cygnus.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA24250; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:48:08 -0800 Received: from maneki-neko.cygnus.com by tweedledumb.cygnus.com (4.1/4.7) id AA11226; Fri, 13 Dec 96 18:48:07 EST Received: (from eichin@localhost) by maneki-neko.cygnus.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id SAA02785; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:48:06 -0500 Sender: eichin@cygnus.com To: rls@MIT.EDU, opus@MIT.EDU, raeburn@cygnus.com Subject: Re: MMMMMM, CHOCOLATE References: From: Mark Eichin Date: 13 Dec 1996 18:48:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: Mark Eichin's message of 12 Dec 1996 17:19:40 -0500 Message-Id: Lines: 3 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.39/Emacs 19.34 *** EOOH *** Sender: eichin@cygnus.com To: rls@MIT.EDU, opus@MIT.EDU, raeburn@cygnus.com Subject: Re: MMMMMM, CHOCOLATE References: From: Mark Eichin Date: 13 Dec 1996 18:48:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: Mark Eichin's message of 12 Dec 1996 17:19:40 -0500 Lines: 3 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.39/Emacs 19.34 Since you might need to reach me by phone tomorrow morning, my direct home phone number is 666-8652. Please don't give this to anyone. _Mark_  1,, Summary-line: 14-Dec Jan Crittenden Sherfy #RE: Video Formats(long) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22619; Sat, 14 Dec 96 10:35:52 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06733; Sat, 14 Dec 96 10:35:51 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA20844; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:20:46 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id JAA01242 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:20:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from mercury.spaceworks.com (uucp@mercury.spaceworks.com [205.142.35.18]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA01233 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:20:18 -0600 (CST) Received: by mercury.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA00786; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:20:33 -0500 Received: from jupiter.spaceworks.com(205.142.32.2) by mercury.spaceworks.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000782; Sat Dec 14 10:20:23 1996 Received: by jupiter.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA14037; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:20:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199612141520.JAA01233@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 10:11 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu, "Rick Johnston" Subject: RE: Video Formats(long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 10:11 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu, "Rick Johnston" Subject: RE: Video Formats(long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Rick Johnston Wrote: Jan, I don't know if you really understand what you're up against. Panasonic makes excellent products -- there's no denying that. But there are hundreds if not thousands of people who remember when MII first hit the market. People who had invested (or saw their affiliate stations invest) hundreds of thousands of dollars in Recam, only to find that MI was not backwards compatible. Jan/JCS: Actually Rick I am aware of the Recam(MI) and certainly can appreciate the trauma that an enduser might go through when a manufacturer decides that it's going to discontinue the format he or she just invested in. As for the speculation on how many people suffered from us disconinueing, I would say, not a one. They were well supported through out the lifetime of their purchase. In fact there is an AU-300 over in the Rockville Service center being fixed right now. Actually we did not sell that many, under 2000 units over a three year period of time. In fact a couple of years ago one of the broadcast groups that bought RECAM bought the new MII. We did not abandon these customers, we supported them. We just did not anchor the future development of the MII format to a discontinued or rather, a less efficient recording format as they did in the Sony Camp. So when they introduced new Betacam SP Machines they could only reduce the quality or features to bring in product that was cost competitive to the New MII products released in 1989, which by the way, was the third generation of machines. These machines offered even better performance than the initial MII machines at half the cost @$16,000. By 1993 we had introduced a machine reflecting the fifth generation. These AUW-Series performed as well as a BVW quality machine yet offered for only $11,000. The six generation of machine put RGB i/o's on each machine for computer animation; this is a standard on all of the AUW(ins only on the recorder). This is a cost/performance winner. Not a loser format as Sony would like for you to believe. While MII had its rough beginnings, most beginnings were rough, especially in 1985. Our re-engineering over the last 11 years bought it to the marketplace and while we can all point to where we failed. If we learn from our failings and capitalize on those technologies came to be, by virtue of the R & D process, we can put a spin on this that looks more like one of support, persistance, and committment to the success of a format and our customers. Recam, Y, I, Q, was limited, difficult and expensive. It was bandwidth limited. It was out a full year before Betacam hit the market. It was the first machine to deliver to the Broadcaster a a quality better than 3/4" for remote field acquisition. I call this innovation. Did you ever wonder why the threading pattern looks similar inside just differnt directions? Looks pretty obvious from here. Alas Panasonic was better at engineering than marketing. So when the decision came to incorproate the R-Y, B-Y, Y signal into a RECAM machine, they made an engineering decision. Because the only way you could make it play both signals was to reduce number of signal reference flags, so that the machines wouldn't reject signals that had didn't have them(Y,I,Q) and changing the R-Y & B-Y signal levels so that they were outside the SMPTE standard as developed by Sarnoff Labs and others. Our gamble to choose the engineering path was built on an engineering relationship with NBC. They were very interested in having a manufacturer make this component machine; we did study the plausibility of making the machine do both but felt that it caused too many future tradeoffs. JVC joined us initially in the effort but when it came time to overhaul their designs to upgrade the quality and performance in 1989, they were out of it by 1991, having done no reengineering on the few machines that they brought to the market place themselves. Of course MII hit the scene prior to Betacam SP and when we announced that it wouldn't play the Y,I,Q recording, Sony wasted no time to take advantage of the small public outcry. They made the marketing decision to make concessions to the new format that would keep them from ever truly doing an overall re-engineering job on the BVW-75. MII has three reference signals, one on red, one on blue and one in the vertical interval. Betacam SP only has one in the red signal. MII looks better in mutiple generation than does BetacamSP. RJ: Although a portion of that fiasco can be blamed on NBC, Panasonic's image still suffers in the areas of format longevity, compatibility and upgradability. JCS: Here is what I don't get. We introduced MII and it is in its 6th generation and 11th year of existance. We introduced 3/4" and it existed from about 1972 through 1987. We introduced D3 in 1990 and it is in its second or third round of product releases here almost 6 years later. D5 was introduced in 1993 and here we are in a third round of products and expansion of that product line include and HDTV compressor so that Digital HDTV can be recorded on a D5 machine. We are not a "Format of the Month Club." We introduced DVCPRO after 3 years of R & D based on some of the very sound engineering that has kept these aforementioned formats competitively priced with a performance equal to or better than the original introductory products and most definately in the competition's face.;-) Recam was expensive, slighlty more than Betacam. The new Component analog format looked very good, higher signal to noise, better bandwidth, capable of almost 100 more lines of resolution than the Y,I,Q or Betacam. The key difference in the outcome of this format war was whether to make a marketing or and engineering decision. The way I have always felt, is that when the going gets tough, what would you hather have at your side helping you through the shoot, engineering or marketing. While I know we lost the format war with MII, I'd still take MII, because I have a lot more faith in solid engineering than I do in marketing. I think in another post I referenced the difference that I see between Panasonic and Sony, this primarily viewed in the perspective of when does the manufacturer really start to make money on the product. A. Morita, founder of Sony Corporation, felt that the main opportunity to make money was at the introduction of the product cycle, the pricing could stay high as long as none of the competitors caught on on how to build the product. Matsushita on the other hand felt the opportunity for real profit is in the long haul, after the product has gone through several re-engineering cycles, and gains a reliability that only needs maintenance not service. Betacam SP on the other hand couldn't significantly be improved, ie, 3D TBC with 262 1/2 lines of drop out compensation. The best TBC on any BetacamSP machine today is 32 lines. The decision most definately was a painful one. History is all we have to observe, we have been paying attention. We know we lost, but our customers won because we made a commitment to the format. Recam customers, including RCA's Recam customers were supported by us. We chose to work on a better format. This happens all the time. 8mm, ED Beta, 2" Quad, Pre-EIAJ 1/2" Reel to Reel formats, 1"A,B and C, these are all formats that have come to be and have gone away, we didn't produce any but some of the 1/2" reel to reels, and somehow we are saddled with the tag that we can't make up our mind and stick to a format? Puhlease. ;-) It is ironic that the best machine and format technically lost due to a marketing decision. I think we just hammered this one into the ground surrounding the Betamax vs. VHS thread. I look at the Betamax decision as the last engineering based decision that Sony made regarding their formats. All of the new BetacamSP machines introduced over the last years, namely the PVW, and UVW, are of lesser quality, engineering tradeoffs. Panasonic has, since the inception of video recording (aside from the pre-EIAJ days), brought to the US market 8 formats and discontinued 2 of them. Recam because it would limit the performance and future improvements to the MII format, and 3/4" as we felt that with the introduction of SVHS, the market for 3/4" would fall off. We could have bailed out on MII when the sales MII were not great . We didn't. It was steadily improved over the last ten years. RJ: -- and people are tentative about running out and buying the latest from that company. All because of a single marketing (or engineering) faux pas. It takes an exorbitant amount of time to heal wounds to the wallet. Once burned, twice shy. JCS: I guess the reason I am spending time responding to these little format jabs, is that I don't think that people understood why we did what we did and perhaps it might help grow an appreciation of what we have done because of what we did. Sony certainly took advantage of our decision and wasted no time in their marketing efforts to look like the good guys. Well over the last ten years we have consistantly lowered the cost of the format, improved the performance of the product, enhanced the support of the format to 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, increased the reliability and our heads are warranted for 2500 hours. You cannot say that about the Betacam SP format. Sony cannot make the same claim. Count their formats and how many they have been discontinued, I think you might understand my point. My hope is that when people read this they can take a moment to reflect on the decision from an engineer's shoes. Matsushita will always be an engineering company first. And that brings me to DVCPRO. Here we have taken the knowledge gained from watching in a second place position what it takes to succeed with a format. First you have to have customer buy-in. This is why when we started the R & D we talked to the largest target customer base we thought would use the product, CNN and others. We took notice of the marketing Sony did to make BetacamSP popular, we have incorporated this into our marketing of the product and seem to be doing a much better job this time, I dare you to find a production magazine that doesn't have a DVCPRO ad in it. Customers want more than one source of supply. Last time with MII we tied in with JVC, that didn't get us into the broadcasters though. They would have preferred the partners that we are in league with on this go round, Ikegami, and BTS/Plillips and a long list of DVC Partners, like AVID, Scitex, Apple Computer, Adaptec, Skipstone, Silicon Graphics, and a real growing list! :-) The DVCPRO format will play all DV formats, DV, DVCAM and DVCPRO(obviously) the point being that Sony's DVCAM will only play DV and DVCAM. We learned, they unlearned. The way that we are able to do all three is very similar technology to the D3/D5 playback. In other words, we have already been doing the multiple speeds trick; a proven technology brought forward. We learned how to re-engineer products over the last ten years and I think we have done an excellent job with MII, D3, and D5. Yes we did discontinue RECAM, but that was 11 years ago. Perhaps it is time to let it go. DVCPRO has some of the finest engineering availble today inside and without sacrificing format picture quality, we are offering products from SVHS level of expenditure(AJ-D230-$4995) upto a 4:2:2 version which I expect will be in the $30s.(less than D3) My feeling is that we have made a major committment to this format or we have totally screwed ourselves, because who is going to go back to SVHS once they get a load of the AJ-D200 which will cost less than Supercam. Victor Frankel, a famed Jewish Psychologist and survivor of the Holocaust, wrote, that most people can accept bad things that happen to them if they come to understand "why" it happened. This is one of the reasons that the Holocaust memory is still so vivid to humankind because there is no good "Why" to explain it. Hopefully this post will help some "heal" a little, now that they know the "why". Thanks for reading and allowing me the soapbox. Best regards to all of you, I wish the happiest of holidays for all of you and your families, Jan Crittenden Sherfy Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems Regards, Rick Johnston ---------- From: Jan Crittenden Sherfy[SMTP:critter@spaceworks.com] DG:Of course, Panasonic is relatively disease free as of this writing, well at least in their high end stuff. JCS:So I don't get the format confusion that you seem to attribute to Panasonic.  1,, Summary-line: 18-Dec Jan Crittenden Sherfy #DVCPRO VCR questions Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10517; Wed, 18 Dec 96 08:40:42 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18635; Wed, 18 Dec 96 08:40:33 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id HAA02848; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:35:47 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id HAA00175 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:35:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from mercury.spaceworks.com (uucp@mercury.spaceworks.com [205.142.35.18]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA00142 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:35:05 -0600 (CST) Received: by mercury.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA18781; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:35:20 -0500 Received: from jupiter.spaceworks.com(205.142.32.2) by mercury.spaceworks.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018761; Wed Dec 18 08:35:13 1996 Received: by jupiter.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA09249; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:35:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199612181335.HAA00142@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 06:24 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu, "Bruce Sakow" Subject: DVCPRO VCR questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 06:24 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu, "Bruce Sakow" Subject: DVCPRO VCR questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Bruce Sakow wrote: I have some questions about the new Panasonic DVC PRO edit vcrs , the AJ-D650 and 640: Bruce: 1.Could you post the specs on these machines? Jan: The picture quality specs are the same as any DVCPRO machine, 5.75 mHz Bandwidth, 54dB S/N. Some are 1 dB quieter but this is minimum spec. The differences are in what the machine is equipped to do. If familar with our MII product line this will make lots of sense, as there is only one look to MII. Bruce: 2.How are they different from the $17,000 model 750 out there? Jan: The 650 and 640 do not have edit control cpability, that is it cannot control another machine, they do not have confidence playback during record, and the 650 is the only one of the two that understands how to make an edit. The 640 can be a source machine or can serve as a feeder to a no-linear system. My recommendation would be the 650 still as it would allow you to make a simple correction on the master tape. Also, if you want to have control over the encoder, that is if working the machine into an analog domain shop, you would need to purchase the encoder remote. You can time it into a system with out it but if you want to correct color balance you need the remote. @$900.00 If you are looking to do digital audio, these I/Os are not standard on the 650/640 machines. This is about $600.00 as an additional interface card. Bruce: 3.When (seriously) can we expect them on the market? Jan:I shipped 4 of each last month. Bruce: 4.a.What are the specs on Panasonic's new DVC-SuperCam (I don't have the model number)? Jan:So far the only specs published reference the recording as 500+lines of res, 55dB S/N. It will utilie the longer cassettes, 90 min and 120 min. Bruce: b.I've read negative posts about the use of 1/3" CCDs in the new DVC SuperCam: what's the story about resolution and image quality? Jan: These are wide aperature pixels and can perform very well. Would I put them on a par with 1/2" chips? no. But I would put them up against an older technology 1/2" CCD from 4 years ago and see what the difference is. chip technology has changed so radically in the last 3 years. Is it good enough for Supercam level of assignments. I think so. I have only seen a prototype, and in all honesty, it didn't look that good in all directions. The up side is, it was a prototype. I recall showing the WV-F500 in its prototype stage at NAB. The only thing I could say that was positive was in reference to the level of control that was soon to be available on the camera. I certainly did not sell anyone on the way the camera looked. By the time it delivered it was an awesome little camera. So I dn't put much weight on the performance of prototypes. I know this one didn't even have gain setting working. February is the time frame for delivery. Bruce: Sorry to burden you with these questions. Hope you can supply better answers than my dealers (primarily B+H and G+G). Jan: Are these dealers local to you? If not find one close. There isn't any way that they could do a good job of supporting this if they are further than a couple hours drive. If they are close to you, email back and I will give you my counterpart's contact info for those dealers. Actually email your address I'll send preliminary info on the camera and the decks. This goes for all readers. ;-) If interested, send snail mail address. I'll also include a reference for the Panasonic contact for your area. Happy Holidays Everyone, Jan Crittenden Sherfy Pansonic Broadcast & TV Systems  1,, Summary-line: 20-Dec dean_wall@juno.com #LASERS, was:Brent Walker/Joel Grey Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04160; Fri, 20 Dec 96 00:58:18 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14767; Fri, 20 Dec 96 00:58:16 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA06976; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:58:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:58:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <19961220.005437.5479.3.dean_wall@juno.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dean_wall@juno.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: LASERS, was:Brent Walker/Joel Grey X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:58:07 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dean_wall@juno.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: LASERS, was:Brent Walker/Joel Grey X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:17:39 -0500 (EST) "P. D. PARKER" writes: > I have just seen the posting on the above topic and offer the >following observations on the technical quality (or lack of it) as >distinct >from the performances themselves. [With lengthy recapitulation on the specifics of late 80's video format wars.] > > Peter. >Peter D Parker. > > >pdp@globalnet.co.uk > > NOW I KNOW WHY I AM IN THE MINORITY! I have a PIONEER Laserdisc of Joel Grey's Jack Point, which I do enjoy [but, my track-record has me lumped in with those who like the PAPP PIRATES, go figure.] The sound is as clear as a bell, even what I consider to be one of G&S's worst opening numbers! I DO have to turn the volume up to achieve a medium, compared to local or satellite broadcasts, but CD's are the same way compared to the radio. The extreme dynamic range, lends itself beautifully to the LASER format. Which can in turn be compared to "Cass vs CD." A few visuals are muddy, or have lingering blurs, but the sound, which was recorded at Abbey Road Studios, and Orchestra [London Symphony Orchestra] is not a problem, [just count the french horns.] The picture is extremely clear, the sound [LaserVideo has ALWAYS had cd quality sound, or the most advanced home sound at that state of the art, e'en before cd's] is rich and lush. Joel Grey's performance has incredible nuances when you hear a tiny whimper in the voice, you see that no one in the entire show laughs at any of his jokes [except him,] and [mind you now, I say] "If I'm not distracted by a phone call, or home crises," I am quite moved by his ultimate loss. When his face turns from the camera and a tear falls across his cheek, along with his broken delivery of the reprise of, "I have a song to Sing OH!" which could never be delivered with that much intimacy on a stage, is high art, and fills the bill nicely. I would almost be willing to dub a single song [for educational purposes] onto VHS HI-FI, for a SAVOYNET VIRTUAL TOUR, if I thought anybody would be able to extrapolate the total impact of the complete performance from it, or were even intrested in hearing the quality. Especially if I KNEW that every single person listening were in a proper HOME THEATER environment, alone, to get the full impact, without distraction. YEOMAN was produced direct to video in 1982, by The Moving Picture Company, ltd. and later released by PIONEER ARTISTS on LASERDISC, Cat# PA-84-074. Pioneer Artists are extremely consistent in their Catalog technique. We can, most assuredly, notice that, though produced in 1982, it was released as the 74th Disc in 1984. BTW, it's GEORGE WALKER, not Brent Walker. Now, IF I could find more laservideos of the performance series to compare...and KEEP! dean_wall@juno.com ..let the nay-sayers have their last word...personally, I like it.  1,, Summary-line: 21-Dec Theodore Y. Ts'o #[Mark J Cox: Re: Cookies (Stuart, RISKS-18.68)] Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28903; Sat, 21 Dec 96 00:36:00 EST Received: from DCL.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02369; Sat, 21 Dec 96 00:35:57 EST Received: by dcl.MIT.EDU (5.x/4.7) id AA29823; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:35:56 -0500 Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:35:56 -0500 Message-Id: <9612210535.AA29823@dcl.MIT.EDU> From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" To: cwis-dev@MIT.EDU, sipb-members@MIT.EDU Subject: [Mark J Cox: Re: Cookies (Stuart, RISKS-18.68)] Address: 1 Amherst St., Cambridge, MA 02139 Phone: (617) 253-8091 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:35:56 -0500 From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" To: cwis-dev@MIT.EDU, sipb-members@MIT.EDU Subject: [Mark J Cox: Re: Cookies (Stuart, RISKS-18.68)] Address: 1 Amherst St., Cambridge, MA 02139 Phone: (617) 253-8091 For those of us who believe that cookies are evil, it might be nice to document this particular netscape feature in SIPB or MIT documentation somewhere.... - Ted ------- Forwarded Message To: risks@MIT.EDU Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:04:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Mark J Cox Subject: Re: Cookies (Stuart, RISKS-18.68) > Making Netscape's cookies file a symbolic link to /dev/null is also an > effective way to disable cookies under UNIX. There's been a lot of talk recently about disabling Cookie logs in Netscape theres a simpler (undocumented?) way of doing this you might want to mention in a future journal. In the Netscape preferences file there is an option "ACCEPT_COOKIE" that gets set to "0" if you want to always accept them, and "1" to prompt the user for every new cookie. Setting it to "2" doesn't prompt the user and in fact disables cookies altogether. Mark Cox, Technical Director, UK Web ------ http://www.ukweb.com/~mark/ Latest news on the Apache Web Server ------- http://www.apacheweek.com/ ------- End Forwarded Message  1,, Summary-line: 21-Dec bwong@rwcom.com #Paybacks--It was a beautiful thing Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25590; Sat, 21 Dec 96 09:49:59 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25796; Sat, 21 Dec 96 09:49:58 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id IAA02664; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:37:34 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id IAA10671 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:37:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from fellspt.charm.net (root@fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA10663 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:37:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.50.199] (bnwng.charm.net [198.69.50.199]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.8.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA19627 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:37:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:16:04 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: bwong@rwcom.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Paybacks--It was a beautiful thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Sender: bnwng@charm.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:16:04 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: bwong@rwcom.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Paybacks--It was a beautiful thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Sender: bnwng@charm.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN I had my studio shoot yesterday. Bill, my soundman, wasn't scheduled to show up until several hours into our office set construction. So there was plenty of time to clue in the rest of the crew about what was to transpire. Bill shows up as scheduled and begins to break out his pole, mics, mixer etc. As it turns out we were having what appeared to to AC line noise in one of the monitors. So Bill jumps in (in addition to sound he has experience as a field technician--one of the reasons that I like to have him on my crews) to help figure out what the problem is. He discovers that there must be a bad power supply in our field monitor so we go to another unit and everything is cool. I say happily, "OK next!" Without missing a beat Bill chimes in with cocky self-congratulation, "alright, what else can I fix?" (Can this get any better?) The set is finally built & lit, our two talent have been made-up, Bill is checking for boom shadow in the shot and adjusting levels on the mixer hanging from his waist during our rehearsal. His face scrunches in concern as he sets the pole down and pulls one muff away from his ear. He flies the mic over the scene again. He stops and calls out to Ed, my Gaffer, "is the door closed to the machine room?" Ed assures him that it is, and asks him what the problem is. Bill tells him he's picking up some noise somewhere that sounds sorta like machine whine. I jump in at this point with, "Bill we gotta get going here" He then asks Ed to check his lights. Ed walks onto the set and does a cursory check. He concludes, "there's nothing wrong with these lights or dimmers--I can't hear this noise you're talking about." Bill is obviously starting to feel the heat now as the eyes of 9 crew, 2 talent and the client are all on him. "Give me a couple of seconds, I'll find the problem," he assures me. Using his mic as a sort of electronic bloodhound he starts sweeping it over each fixture above the set, then over the set pieces, and finally hovering over the desk between the two talent. Bill says to Ed who is standing right beside the desk, "it's coming from around the desk, you can't hear that?" Ed offhandedly shakes his head and starts to walk away. I am ready to burst at this point but Bill is so engrossed, as he pulls off his gear, that he doesn't notice some of the giggles that are starting to surface. He first looks over the surface of the desk then he gets on his hands and knees to check the floor. We hear a muffled, "what's this?" He stands up puzzling at a wad of gaffer tape with my daughter's red kidney shaped radio cradled in it (per Bill Barrett's suggestion I set it to the end of the dial). At this point everyone bursts out laughing and he realizes that he's been had. I gleefully shout, "Gotcha!" Being the good sport that he is though, a smile spreads across his face and he says, "Oh, man. That's fuuunny." Bill recovers quickly, so as he walks off the set he places the radio against his waist starts to walk funny and offers, "anybody need a spare kidney?" BTW, after things setteld down we went on to have a very good shoot. The best thing about the gag was that Bill said to me in mock humbleness, "I bow to the master. That one'll have to go into my book." I in turn bow to my friends on this list for their wonderfull gags. My hats off to Bill Barrett especially for this one. I haven't dismissed the other tricks though. I figure I have a whole year ahead with which to meter out the fun :-D Happy Holidays one and all! Ben Wong For the benefit of those who missed it the first time here is Bill Barrett's recipe for wicked good fun with your soundperson: >Gaffer-taping a small radio to the underside of the interview chair or coffee >table--set to an all news or all-talk station, and barely audible is an >evergreen gag. Takes 'em a LONG time to find it. Nobody hears it till >everything is totally quiet. (Tuning it off the end of the dial to just some >hiss is good, too.) > >bb >s1  1,, Summary-line: 22-Dec MoovyMagic@aol.com #Re: Creating Value in your customers mind? Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12011; Sun, 22 Dec 96 16:52:48 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23551; Sun, 22 Dec 96 16:52:47 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA12529; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:48:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id PAA09411 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:34:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA06892 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:27:12 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA14177 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:01:39 -0500 Message-Id: <961222090135_842004024@emout19.mail.aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:01:39 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Creating Value in your customers mind? X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:01:39 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Creating Value in your customers mind? X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Everybody (except Spielberg) has this problem. It is maybe one of the very most difficult and subtle problems we all face. Here are some ideas based on what we do. Realizing that this is an educational problem more than any other, before you get too deep into creating and shooting a specific commercial for a new client, spend a little time diagnosing where they are on the production values appreciation spectrum. Ask them some questions. One of the first should be what commercials do they notice and admire on TV? What elements do they notice? What commercials do they hate? Why? What commercials do they feel add to a company's image, and what commercials make a company look cheap and cheesy? What's in these? Do they wish to look good, or cheap and cheesy to their public? Every customer you have wants to know only one thing: what will this project do for him? You have to have answers and specific examples that reveal that better work is dispropotionately more effective than shabby work. We all know that work twice as good is ten times as effective in selling things, or else Coke and MacDonalds would make cheap commercials like the local tire shop guy does. We invite our new and educable but dubious clients to call a certain restaurant we did a commercial for, or a certain bank. Talk to so-and-so. Ask them. The restaurant will tell them the story of how business was OK before they ran some nice simple and elegant commercials---but now it's phenomenal! Folks wait in line out the door and down the street! Nothing sells better than testamonials. Especially when they're direct, person to person. Picking when commercials run, rather than settling for the apparently cheaper saturation schedule runs will further increase the focus and the bang for the airtime buck. Be more than just the guys who shoot the commercial to your client. Be your client's media advisor---if not his "agency of record" for the airtime buys. You qualify for an up to 15% ad agency discount if you do. This discount is traditiionally NOT available to the client who buys time direct. It depends on how greedy and scummy your cable company is whether they will do this. Find out from other ad agencies if the cable company operates this way. (The cable company may very well have an initial position, and a "real" position. Be informed.) If other agencies are getting this commission, you should, too. This can often be more dollars than the writing, shooting, and editing part of the project. (Why do you think the cable companies shoot commercials for free?) Some of your source for funding better work can come out of this "found money". Part of what we call "client development' consists of bringing your client along with small steps. Be a guide and a partner. Get them to take a small risk by paying for a better commercial. By now, you've explained and diagnosed---so they should be ready. Give them a guarantee that this better version will deliver noticibly better response. Figure out a way for the commercial to pound your client over the head with undeniable evidence of how much more effective it is. The old "Just mention this ad for an additional discount!!" ploy will usually do it. Not willing to give them a guarantee? Why? Don't you believe your own hype? If they still insist on cheapie slash and burn work, then give them a good workmanlike job with a positive attitude, and happily cash the check. Work on finding the clients who will appreciate what you do. What you REALLY do.... Leave the jerks to the competition. bb s1 In a message dated 96-12-21 10:29:37 EST, you write: << We are having a difficult time creating the value of our productions in our customers mind. They are not able to grasp the reasoning behind spending a little more producing their commercials and videos. I do understand their perspective, but it is sometimes difficult to communicate that it can take hundreds of hours to produce a video that they can watch in 10 minutes. We will often spend a weeks time on a 30 second commercial, and the customer will be happy, but their is still a lack of understanding of what they are getting. I see so much poorly produced stuff running on the air which does not communicate the clients intended message, but they do not realize the differences. It is tuff to communicate to them that a $2000 to $3000 commercial is actually is a better value for them than the spot the TV station will give for free. Any help or ideas about how you all do this would be greatly appreciated. >>  1,, Summary-line: 23-Dec A.M.Wall@newcastle.ac.uk #Sibelius 7 [Re: 'It Came Upon a Midnight Clear'] (off-topic) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17991; Mon, 23 Dec 96 12:12:47 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00388; Mon, 23 Dec 96 12:12:46 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA28405; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:12:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:12:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612231707.RAA00358@aidan.ncl.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: A.M.Wall@newcastle.ac.uk To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sibelius 7 [Re: 'It Came Upon a Midnight Clear'] (off-topic) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:12:41 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: A.M.Wall@newcastle.ac.uk To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sibelius 7 [Re: 'It Came Upon a Midnight Clear'] (off-topic) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Gerry Howe wrote: > Rhapsody 3 (Clares Software) will accept an input from a MIDI equipped > keyboard and turn it into a written stave; it will then save it as > either a Rhapsody file or a MIDI file. It will also convert a MIDI > file back into a written page which can be printed out. > > Sibelius 7 (Sibelius siftware, Cambridge, UK) will do the same things, > plus others, but is much more expensive - UKP974 for Sibelius as against > UKP87 for Rhapsody 3. Sibelius does have other facilities, though - it is > generally accepted as the best professional package. > > The disadvantage of these packages for my US cousins is that they are > written for the UK RISC OS system - the system which, as is well known, > outperforms Windoze like a Porsche outperforms a Beetle. :-) Note, however, that Sibelius Software sells music publishing systems worldwide. The agent for the US is in Ontario, Canada and has a web page at http://www.globalserve.on.ca/~sibelius/ Also, there are cut down versions of Sibelius, available at more modest prices than the full version. I can vouch for Rhapsody's useability (although MIDI import isn't one of its strongest features). Have a look at http://www.acorn.co.uk/developers/sibelius/ and http://www.stcoll.ac.uk/clares/music/Rhap.html for more details. -- Adrian.  1,, Summary-line: 26-Dec Rick Johnston #RE: Your input needed on briefcase sized grip case Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00333; Thu, 26 Dec 96 09:12:03 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16768; Thu, 26 Dec 96 09:12:02 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id IAA08877; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:02:21 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id IAA03663 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:00:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA03649 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:00:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from dppp13.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa10227; 26 Dec 96 9:01 EST Received: by dppp13.buffnet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BBF30B.54F43160@dppp13.buffnet.net>; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:01:07 -0500 Message-Id: <01BBF30B.54F43160@dppp13.buffnet.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:00:49 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Rick Johnston To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" Subject: RE: Your input needed on briefcase sized grip case Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu id IAB03663 X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:00:49 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Rick Johnston To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" Subject: RE: Your input needed on briefcase sized grip case Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu id IAB03663 X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN My 2 cents: -- The inside of the top is perfect for holding pre-cut blue and CTO correction gels and black foil. -- 4" and/or 6" Pony clamps (find similar at your local Home Depot, Scotty's, etc.) -- Wooden, spring-loaded clothespins -- Jeweler's screwdriver set in addition to a basic tool set (pliers, standard and Phillips screwdrivers, needle-nose pliers, small and large wire cutters, wire stripper). Also soldering iron & 60/40 thin solder. -- Gaffer, duct and plastic electrical tape -- Extra bolts and nuts the same size as those on your light stands (to bail out the student who tends to overtighten). -- In a pinch, a couple of automotive hose clamps will hold light stand extensions in place if they break. -- Ground lifters and 3-to1 electric receptacle adapters. -- A couple of extra electrical plugs rated for the biggest light you'll be using. -- A small bottle of denatured alcohol and Texwipes (to clean deck-head clogs). -- Audio adapters to convert 1/4, RCA/phono, XLR and mini to & from each other (both male & female). I know, it's not part of a lighting grip kit ... but these take little space and come in very handy when interconnecting to house PA systems. -- Finally ... the ubiquitous Swiss Army knife. Regards, Rick Johnston ---------- From: Bill O'Neill[SMTP:celtfire@speed.net] I'm planning to put together a couple of grip cases the size of large briefcases to go into the field with our university student EFP teams. What would you recommend that we stock this case with regaeding expendables, tools, small grip devices, etc.  1,, Summary-line: 26-Dec k_suszko_@ccmailgw.state. #Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04916; Thu, 26 Dec 96 10:07:57 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13967; Thu, 26 Dec 96 10:07:56 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id IAA14700; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:55:23 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id IAA07882 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:55:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from forbes.state.il.us (forbes.state.il.us [163.191.183.99]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA07875 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:55:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from ccmailgw.state.il.us by forbes.state.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08370; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:45:23 -0600 Received: from cc:Mail by ccmailgw.state.il.us id AA851619306 Thu, 26 Dec 96 08:55:06 cst Message-Id: <9611268516.AA851619306@ccmailgw.state.il.us> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 96 08:55:06 cst Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us To: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 26 Dec 96 08:55:06 cst Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us To: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Sorry, Just flashed on one of those scenes with Bond and Q, outlining his special gear and gadgets. Meanwhile, here's a list of a few things I would look for in a general-purpose shooters kit, designed for EFP work around a campus. It assumes you can walk back for the heaviest/bulkiest stuff. Mind you, every kit is different depending on the kind of person using it and what they're using it for. Your mileage may vary. Gaffer tape, at least 2 kinds. Black Wrap, at least a couple of folded sheets. Paratool, or cheaper knockoff from home center (this is the dealie that's pliers, screwdriver, etc.etc. in one) Spare connectors and adapters for audio, video and AC. Spare cheapie earphone. Spare mic batteries. Ac extension cord w/ grounding adapter. Spare audio cable. White card for balancing and bouncing. Scissor clips for light mounting on drop ceilings. ND gel, Daylight, flourescent, and tungsten correction gels, if these are not in your light kit already. Do not disturb doorknob signs or post-it note type signs. Release forms. Biz cards. Shot log sheets. Blank script pages (for revisions on-site). Utility markers and some card stock. Tabletop mic stand (does more than hold mics). Box of bulldog clips, var. sizes. One blank tape. I'll stop here, since you don't want it to get so heavy nobody takes it along, which would defeat the purpose. I'm sure the others will make some brilliant and obvious additions to this list.  1,, Summary-line: 26-Dec Freelancr@aol.com #Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22491; Thu, 26 Dec 96 13:44:46 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04641; Thu, 26 Dec 96 13:44:46 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA06011; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:32:28 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id MAA12776 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:32:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA12765 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:32:09 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA21336 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:31:41 -0500 Message-Id: <961226133140_1121958744@emout10.mail.aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:31:41 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Freelancr@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:31:41 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Freelancr@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN OK, I'm not going to list MY kit here....it would take two digests (three if we count everything in the van....) but here's what goes in the extra-durable, lovely, LL BEAN canvas bags.... -6 Stingers, singles, whatever (at least 14/3 gague, and we use the really groovy ones that have the glowing ends so you know when it's hot) -2 heavy duty cube taps -1 heavy duty, fused, powerstrip -3 ground lifters -2 Maffer clamps -2 sissor/drop ceiling clamps -1 gator grip -6 asstd spring/pony clips -bag 'o C-47s/#2 wood clamps/pins/clothespins (yes, wood ones with springs) -1 pidgeon a COMPLETE gelly roll w/ a coupla pieces of plackwrap should LIVE with the light kit... The swiss army knife should LIVE in your pocket (and I HIGHLY reccommend getting the little tweaker/eyeglass screwdriver that fits oh-so-conviently in the corkscrew, watch the engineer ohhh and ahhh when he can't find a greenie and you whip that thing out...) I like the 'explorer' model...not too fat, no saw or friggin' worthless tools...and that little magnifying glass DO come in handy... The LEATHERMAN (get the big one, please) should LIVE on your belt....another indensible tool I don't know how I did without Next to the leatherman (on the other side from your beeper), should live your mini-mag lite no, you won't look like a geek....or a fool when rummaging though a bag in a dark location. as for adaptors and such, we keep a bag of 'em in the end of the audio kits, a mini to phone adaptor gets taped to the headphone bag, and boxes of barrels go with the video kit...others as needed. Now of course I carry in my PERSONAL bag 'o death a box with just about one of everything that Radio Shack sells, but most of which I never need...but just incase..... The above bag, I've found, to be a good all around GRIP kit, maybe you could make a few other ones for more specialized shoots? But make this one the regular one....try not to put TOO many little items in there, trying to account for them on check-in can and will be a bitch. Good luck....I'm off...it's showtime at the Apollo! Mike the king of packing (or is that pack-rats?) ----------------------------------------- Michael Sime Video Schmideo! ----------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- It's not the time it takes to take the takes, it's the time it takes BETWEEN the takes, that takes the time to take the takes. -----------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 26-Dec Leslie Strom #Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24667; Thu, 26 Dec 96 14:16:46 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11828; Thu, 26 Dec 96 14:16:45 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id NAA09012; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:02:30 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id NAA15791 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:02:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail1.halcyon.com (mail1.halcyon.com [206.63.63.40]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA15778 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:02:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from blv-pm109-ip29.halcyon.com by mail1.halcyon.com (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/10Nov96-0444PM) id AA10339; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:01:38 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:06:15 -0800 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: lstrom@halcyon.com (Leslie Strom) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: lstrom@mail.halcyon.com X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:06:15 -0800 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: lstrom@halcyon.com (Leslie Strom) To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: lstrom@mail.halcyon.com X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Several fine lists of doodads to bring along... wanted to add these: fat black magic marker, and wire twist ties. (I slate scenes with a toy clapboard, masking tape and black magic marker.) I also carry those pony tail elastics with the colorful plastic balls on the ends. Great for bundling cable. Since I use a lot of consumer video gear, I went to Radio Shack and bought one of every kind of adaptor I could, even the stuff I didn't quite recognize. I've used most of them on my hi-8, my varying qualities of microphones, the occasional guest monitor, and my very excellent Marantz field recorder. Somehow I have to make all this stuff feed into and out of SVHS decks, Beta decks, professional sound boards, and the Media 100. And ditto on the cheap Walkman headphones, can't work without them. ___________________________________________ L E S L I E S T R O M W I D E A N G L E P R O D U C T I O N S 2319 N 45th Street #136-C Seattle, Washington 98103 lstrom@halcyon.com FINALLY RELEASED! December '96: "The Road to Pullman" VHS NTSC 40 minutes ISBN 1-889677-00-0 "Start slow, then taper off." - marathoner Walt Stack, 1908-1995 ___________________________________________  1,, Summary-line: 26-Dec Freelancr@aol.com #Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27763; Thu, 26 Dec 96 14:55:46 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10238; Thu, 26 Dec 96 14:55:46 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id NAA12963; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:41:07 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id NAA19299 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:40:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA19276 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 13:40:56 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA06857 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:40:29 -0500 Message-Id: <961226144028_270671374@emout19.mail.aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:40:29 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Freelancr@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:40:29 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Freelancr@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Here's your grip case, 007... DO be careful, will you?:-) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Since it took Leslie three trys to remember everything I guess two isn't too bad.... yes, put cable ties on everything...I too like the big hair-bob things...or a piece of trick line... and the MOST IMPORTANT THING TO PUT IN THE KIT!!! that I forgot.... A roll or black, 2" Gaffer's tape... and other ideas.... some trick line sash cord sharpie's screw the slate...that's what time code is for and label EVERYTHING WITH YOUR NAME! paint it a ugly color... and put a lamanated card with a list of everything that belongs in the kit somewhere in there. Mike ----------------------------------------- Michael Sime Video Schmideo! ----------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- It's not the time it takes to take the takes, it's the time it takes BETWEEN the takes, that takes the time to take the takes. -----------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 27-Dec Jan Crittenden Sherfy #Re: DV + DVCPRO 4:1:1 vs DVCPRO 4:2:2 vs Digital-S Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25449; Fri, 27 Dec 96 11:47:41 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15997; Fri, 27 Dec 96 11:47:40 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id KAA09588; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:42:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id KAA29654 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:30:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from mercury.spaceworks.com (daemon@mercury.spaceworks.com [205.142.35.18]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA29561 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:29:51 -0600 (CST) Received: by mercury.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA09966; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 09:47:40 -0500 Received: from jupiter.spaceworks.com(205.142.32.2) by mercury.spaceworks.com via smap (V1.3) id sma009963; Fri Dec 27 09:47:40 1996 Received: by jupiter.spaceworks.com (1.38.193.5/s2.0) id AA03820; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 09:47:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199612271629.KAA29561@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 96 06:16 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: DV + DVCPRO 4:1:1 vs DVCPRO 4:2:2 vs Digital-S Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 27 Dec 96 06:16 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: "Jan Crittenden Sherfy" To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: DV + DVCPRO 4:1:1 vs DVCPRO 4:2:2 vs Digital-S Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Bett Wills wrote in response to Bob Lamm's post on waiting for the next round of digital equipment: Makes sense to me. Besides, I was wondering....once the footage is shot digitally, edited digitally....where does it go? JCS:Bett, none of the ultimate consumers I know have Betacam machines to play it back on either. My feeling is that at this point in time, the ultimate consumer will still get his/her analog VHS recording. (I think I just bought my last VHS machine yesterday) What DVCPRO is offering to producers is a means of going digital today without spending an arm and a leg to do so. If you bought your BetacamSP rig in in 1986-90, you might be very well interested in replacing it. If you have been shooting news, and here I disagree with Bob's assessment of what the news crews need, but that is another post, you have a strong idea of what quality you are looking for and you want at least as good as what you have had. Now you have several choices. You could stay analog and spend $60,000 for a new camera and call it a BVW600, but that remains an analog recording, which, fair enough, is where the industry has been. You could wait until Sony finally delivers the BetaSX and get one of those cameras, but then you have spent even more money, had heavier compression applied to the signal and you're not able to edit on the tape.(MPEG2 recordings are based on groups of pictures not stand alone frames.) You could spend even more money and get a Digital Betacam DVW700 but that is much more than you need and it doesn't offer the universiality BetacamSP.(Not all facilities have this format, especially in the News areas.) Digital SVHS isn't a solution as there is no camera/recorder available at this time. D3 is a potential but has the same problem as Digital Betacam, its not that popular in the news areas. D5 is out of the question as well. The only other format that makes sense is DVCPRO. This is a camcorder that is available today, will take pictures comparable to what BetacamSP shooters have been shooting, in fact a little better for about 2/3" the cost. I say 2/3s the cost because I have factored in a Broadcast Lens. I just sold one of these cameras where the lens put on the front end cost more than the camera.;-) DVCPRO is: Better than Betacam - quieter with more resolution and double the record time, 60 minutes, color playback in the field, stable enough for microwave. Smaller than Betacam - 13lbs with lens, battery and tape. Balance can be adjusted for individual choices of lens/battery combinations. Draws less power, 22Watts in full record. Cheaper than Betacam - Camera Body $16,900, Head Replacement cost $1000, completely rebuilt mechanically $4500 and the head life is expected to run about 2500 hours. 72 hour service turnaround and 24 hour parts availability. The point of this is, that for a producer that has to replace his or her dying Betacam rig today what does that producer buy? Spend more and stay in the analog domain? Many are rethinking this philosophy. They see the benefits of DVCPRO because it is better than what they have been doing, certainly not as expensive as staying analog and it sets them up for a digital future. BW:If to the consumer, will they be viewing it on a digital VCR? Yeah, right. And over the air or cable network - will it go to our digital TVs?? JCS: Your customers now are not viewing it on BetacamSP either. The rationale for the higher level production format is a well established production philosophy. Start high so that when you are done producing, you still have more than what VHS can record, so you have great looking distribution copies. And yesterday they announced the HDTV standard which is digital. We are headed for a digital domain. And ultimately the TVs will be digital as well. BW: Yeah, right. BetacamSP works fine for me. Someday digital will be the thing for all of us, but I'm planning on getting my money's worth out of the stuff I have now. JCS: And so you should, Bett. From what I gather you just bought this rig in the last couple of years. I can't imagine your needing to replace it for several years. In some ways you are lucky, you don't have to make this decision today. There are some that do. Others have dying BVW300s that they bought 8-9 years ago. These are the target customers for this first round of DVCPRO. These are the customers we talked to before even building a camera on paper. This was the birth of the AJ-D700. And we have BTS/Phillips and Ikegami as partners in the Format. I believe you will see a 2/3" camcorder from Ikegami at NAB. In all reality we have started the Next Generation of DVCPRO with the intro of the 650/640 machines. There will be SVHS priced machines soon enough and the high end will also be covered. The 4:2:2 recorders will offer the same compression level as the Digital SVHS 3:1 but will maintain all of the size features of DVCPRO. Anyhow I hope this has helped to increase the understanding about DVCPRO and its place in the professional's arsenal. Happy Holidays, Jan Crittenden Sherfy Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems  1,, Summary-line: 27-Dec k_suszko_@ccmailgw.state. #Grip kit redux Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28456; Fri, 27 Dec 96 12:21:30 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19543; Fri, 27 Dec 96 12:21:28 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA13367; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:13:40 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id LAA13655 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:13:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from forbes.state.il.us (forbes.state.il.us [163.191.183.99]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA13633 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:13:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from ccmailgw.state.il.us by forbes.state.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA25514; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:03:14 -0600 Received: from cc:Mail by ccmailgw.state.il.us id AA851713992 Fri, 27 Dec 96 11:13:12 cst Message-Id: <9611278517.AA851713992@ccmailgw.state.il.us> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 96 11:13:12 cst Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us To: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Grip kit redux X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 27 Dec 96 11:13:12 cst Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us To: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Grip kit redux X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN One cool accessory to have would be a home-made practical comprising a porcelain lamp socket, long cord, and either a dimmer or a couple of various-wattage bulbs, say a heavy-duty 30 watt and a 60-watt outdoor type flood. The butt-ugly original Lowel lights were a sheet of notched and slotted steel with such a socket on them, and with a little gaffer tape and imagination, you could do a thousand and one things with them. Put one under a car, behind a couch, behind a seat (makes a nice hair light), on a wall around a corner, anywhere you need a little accent. This has been a fun exercise. We often take the familiar for granted. I like comparing what the members suggest with what I have in my kit. Always room to steal one more idea:-). Mark Suszko "Sorry, I've been out of the loop for a while - you say Darth Vader is WHO's father!?!?!":-)  1,, Summary-line: 27-Dec betwills@airmail.net #DV + DVCPRO 4:1:1 etc etc (long reply) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02121; Fri, 27 Dec 96 13:01:07 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21267; Fri, 27 Dec 96 13:01:07 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA17593; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:51:42 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id LAA20531 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:51:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA20521 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:51:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from [206.66.15.105] from [206.138.225.138] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.136) with esmtp id ; Fri, 27 Dec 96 11:51:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:53:54 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: betwills@airmail.net To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: DV + DVCPRO 4:1:1 etc etc (long reply) In-Reply-To: <199612270339.WAA00161@escape.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Sender: betwills@mail.airmail.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:53:54 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: betwills@airmail.net To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: DV + DVCPRO 4:1:1 etc etc (long reply) In-Reply-To: <199612270339.WAA00161@escape.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Sender: betwills@mail.airmail.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN >> Makes sense to me. Besides, I was wondering....once the footage is >> shot digitally, edited digitally....where does it go? If to the >>consumer, will they be viewing it on a digital VCR? Yeah, right. > >...these days (without digital broadcasting, etc) the real benefit to >digital is >in post, where the noise/signal loss of five or six generations is >negligible. That's something we can't get with Betacam. Granted, >it's not something you need for news... > > >------------------------------------------------------------ > Tim Gunkel > thegunk@escape.com Thank you, Tim, for your response, but I must apologize if my questions appeared to need answers. They were rhetorical and may have carried a tinge of sarcasm. It wasn't directed toward anyone - it was just me venting, and I don't usually do that on the list, but the digital vs analog thread is tired, only I'm the one who's yawning. I really do appreciate the explanations and information that go down on the list - that's why I'm still here, and have been for some time - but I guess it pinches a little when the digital side becomes condescending, especially after considering the final signal in the line is still analog - at least at the present time. Now then, you said something about noise/signal loss at 5 or 6 generations on Betacam. Question - why would anyone be in a 5 or 6 generation loss situation, anyway? If you're mastering from camera originals with a few B-roll tapes mixed-in, and then making a dub master - you're really only down a 2 generation loss with some 3s mixed-in on the tape, and for BetacamSP, that's nothing. The only way digital is going to hold up as THE superior format is when it ALL becomes digital, and when the artifacting and other digital anomalies have been cured. Hopefully, that day will come. I also understand the FCC just approved digital, and there's talk that HDTV will be available in 1999. Great, but that's still another 2 years away, and even then, not everyone is going to be able to afford HDTV. My point - I'm keeping my Betacam SP gear until the full digital conversion has been made. Whoopeee!!! That means I have another 3 or 4 years of squeezing profits out of an already paid for system. Do I start making the transition now? No. In 6 months everything will be different, and that new transitional technology will be old news. I'm waiting 'til it's all converted, and the stations quit accepting Betacam SP submissions. And please, folks....don't go singing that "pioneer the new technology" song to me. Bullhonkie!! Let the manufacturers do their own R&D on their own borrowed money rather than using mine. I refuse to buy almost ready equipment, and basically, that's what digital is right now. The trade-offs are still too costly. I prefer to wait for the manufacturers to show me something that not only has all the bugs worked out and is proven to work, but it must also blend, improve, and cost less. I haven't seen anything like that, yet - even though some CLAIM it is here. Panasonic is still trying to take the BetacamSP market, and Sony is still trying to keep Panasonic from doing that. The point is....BetacamSP is the standard everyone is TRYING to equal or surpass. I haven't seen it, yet, folks - not in its price category. You know what else? Only Sony can really dictate what happens to Betacam SP from this point forward. If they quit manufacturing it, and focus entirely on the digital market (which I understand they are doing)....guess what? We'll be FORCED to go digital, but we'll also be in a position to decide whether or not we want to buy Sony. It opens the market up to competition, and inevitably, price drops. Yahoooo!!! Bottom line - I don't know of anyone who can differentiate between a program that was mastered on a Betacam SP tape, MII, or digital Betacam simply by watching it on a TV screen either as a broadcast or on a VCR. We don't HAVE to run out right now and buy a digital camera for acquisition, and/or a whole digital system to edit on when it's going to end-up analog anyway, nor do we HAVE to buy transitional equipment. IMO, that's just an extra expense, so it really is okay to keep your BetacamSP stuff a while longer, and not lose the competitive edge. Don't let the pressure of the hype get to you. The digital folks will be claiming their stuff looks "as good as Betacam SP" for a while to come, and that's okay, too. Few viewers, if any, will know the difference. Best regards - Betty Wills Earthwave Productions Websites:  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 31-Dec Rand Flory #FW: Graphics tips site Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04261; Tue, 31 Dec 96 20:13:04 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22393; Tue, 31 Dec 96 20:13:03 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id TAA03871; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:07:32 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id TAA21547 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:07:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from mailhost.wyoming.com (CALAMITY.WYOMING.COM [199.190.151.2]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id TAA21538 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:07:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from COD-CAP-1.WYOMING.COM ([204.227.211.34]) by mailhost.wyoming.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11190) with SMTP id AAA2229 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 18:07:02 -0700 Received: by COD-CAP-1.WYOMING.COM with Microsoft Mail id <01BBF744.1FB1BF80@COD-CAP-1.WYOMING.COM>; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:57:44 -0700 Message-Id: <01BBF744.1FB1BF80@COD-CAP-1.WYOMING.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:57:05 -0700 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: ranflory@wyoming.com (Rand Flory) To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" Subject: FW: Graphics tips site X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:57:05 -0700 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: ranflory@wyoming.com (Rand Flory) To: "'vidpro-l@bgu.edu'" Subject: FW: Graphics tips site X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Vid folks, Thought some of you more graphics arts-oriented video folks might be interested in the following announcement as there seems to much use of Photoshop or Photopaint in video work. rand =================== Forwarded Message =================== From: illustratr@aol.com (Illustratr) Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.announce Subject: GRAPHICS: Ten New Graphic Tips Followup-To: comp.infosystems.www.misc Date: 30 Dec 1996 20:41:34 -0500 Organization: AOL ANNOUNCE: Ten New Graphic Tips at Greetings and happy new year! I've reorganized the graphics tips at mccannas.com, and organized them by skill level and software program. You'll find tips for Photoshop, revised to include instructions for Photoshop 4, and tips for Corel PhotoPaint, some of which have been updated for Corel 7. Some of the new tips include: Creating Transparent Gifs in Paint Shop Pro, Fractal Design Painter, and Photoshop. How to Recolor Clipart in Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop How to Resize Clipart in Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop Add Texture to Type in Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop Create Type with Drop Shadows in PhotoPaint 6 Create Over-Exposed Type in Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro The new menu for the tips is at There are also new links to free and helpful resources for graphic designers and others at Best wishes for a joyous new year, Laurie McCanna Author of Creating Great Web Graphics  1,, Summary-line: 2-Jan J. Derrick McClure #Bliadhna Mhath Ur dhuibh uile! Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28318; Thu, 2 Jan 97 08:15:45 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16072; Thu, 2 Jan 97 08:15:44 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA22674; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:15:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:15:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Derrick McClure" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bliadhna Mhath Ur dhuibh uile! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Windows *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:15:39 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Derrick McClure" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bliadhna Mhath Ur dhuibh uile! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Windows You asked for it, Henry! BLIADHNA ("year"): I pronounced as in European languages, i.e. like EE in English; DH mute (or as near as makes no difference); the two A-s reduced to a very central, "dull" vowel like E in French LE or JE. Stress on the first syllable. MHATH ("good", feminine): MH is like a V, but with, if you can manage it, a touch of nasalisation; A as in CAT (not a back "ah" as in an English or American pronunciation of SPA), TH mute. UR ("new"): U a long, clear OO - there should be an accent over it, but my e-mail can't do accents; R clearly articulated - not omitted as the English do or run together with the vowel as the Americans do. DHUIBH ("to you", plural): DH not mute this time but pronounced something like a French or German back-of-the-throat R; UI like "oo-ee" compressed into one syllable; BH like a V. UILE ("all"): U a very short OO; the I is not pronounced but it makes the L palatal like Italian GL or Castilian Spanish LL; E as in French LE. All right? I now expect all Netters to practise until they can give each other New Year greetings in a perfect Gaelic accent! Derrick McClure. (A most intense young man, A soulful-eyed young man.)  1,, Summary-line: 3-Jan P. D. PARKER #1926 Mikado Film (Was Henry Lytton.....) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03822; Fri, 3 Jan 97 17:03:12 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09186; Fri, 3 Jan 97 17:03:11 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA04739; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:58:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:58:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970103215030.266f616c@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: 1926 Mikado Film (Was Henry Lytton.....) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:58:23 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: 1926 Mikado Film (Was Henry Lytton.....) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) As this item mentions myself may I state exactly what happened, and give some detail about the film/video. These notes are written so that an archive will exist of some of the circumstances surrounding this film. I happened to possess an original copy of a 35mm film made for showing in cinemas of the Mikado as re-dressed by Charles Rickets in Sept 1926. That film was made before the introduction of sound to films (at least in UK). It was also before the introduction of colour cinematography. In order to show off the new costumes and sets it was coloured by hand on a frame by frame basis. That was at that date an established proceedure. In order to cut down the very large number of individual frames to be coloured a stencil process was used. This implied that for many successive frames where there was little or no movement the same coloured stencil could be applied and the viewer did not notice. It also meant a better consistency of colours on screen. (I no longer have the original film. It is/was with the Theatre Museum in London to whom I presented it). Several years ago I had this film, which was on Nitrate stock transferred to a video. For those of you who do not know the technicality of film, Nitrate film stock is highly inflammable and even to project it in UK a specially licenced and equipped projection suite is required. I knew that in due course of time the film would deteriorate to a point where it could never be projected. This type of film stock can self ignite when exposed to air and was the cause/reason for the development of the modern 'safety' film stock. For longevity it has to be kept refrigerated! Even handling this old film is a dangerous matter and special precautions have to be taken. At that time I knew of only one copy of this film, mine, and as any copies would each have had to be hand coloured I did not think there would be many others. However a search at The British Film Institute archives showed that they had two other copies. They were stored away in their special vaults for keeping such old material and the BFI were unwilling to get their copies out of storage to check if there were any differences because of the costs and trouble involved. In 1990 BFI had arranged to have, for a period, showings at the National Film Theatre in London of historical (in the film sense) films. Among the films listed to be shown was the 1939 Mikado. This was, I am told, the first Technicolor full length feature film to be made in UK. The BFI had arranged to have a brand new print made (on safety film stock) of the 1939 Mikado and were going to show it for two days only at NFT. Unnanounced they then decided to show their copy of the 1926 Mikado before the main feature. This news 'leaked' out on the day before the first showing and a number (about 10 of us) of G & S 'fanatics' booked seats. (The whole audience numbered less than 30). About 10 minutes before the film was due to start the projectionist decided that the copy of the 1926 film was not safe to project and he refused to show it. I pointed out that it was rather late in the day to arrive at this decision and that in any case they knew I had a video copy which could be used, if only they had asked. The 1939 film was shown that night therefore without any preview of the 1926 film. On the following day I took my video to BFI headquarters and they arranged to show me the copy of the film that was unsafe to project. They used a viewer in a specially constructed booth on the roof of the building, so scared is everyone of Nitrate film. What then emerged was that their film was not quite identical to my copy in that it had no cast list at the start and the last few frames were cut short. However the outcome was that BFI arranged to show my video copy at NFT that night in front of the 1939 Mikado. Knowing that I had a unique piece of history I took reasonable care to ensure that no copy was made but I have no proof. I then discovered a further video copy of this film which was again slightly different. This belonged to Mahala Menzies who is the daughter of Ivan Menzies and Elsie Griffin. She had discovered an original copy of the film among her mother's possessions when she died and did not know what it was. Mahala is not a particular G & S fan. This film was taken by her to a professional film studio who recognised Nitrate stock which she was calmly carrying about with her. They immediately made her a video copy. I have not been able to discover what they did with the film; it was most likely then destroyed. This copy was evidently not transferred to video using a 'flying spot' scanner, as was my copy, and it is therefore not as stable when shown on a VCR. However it does contain the cast list and the production company's logo which none of the other three so far traceable copies have. The cast list of the 1926 film is: The Mikado of Japan.Darrell Fancourt (NB Not Darryl) Nanki Poo...........Charles Goulding Ko Ko...............Henry Lytton Pooh Bah............Leo Sheffield Pish Tush...........John Huntington Yum Yum.............Elsie Griffin Pitti Sing..........Aileen Davies Peep Bo.............Beatrice Elburn Katisha.............Bertha Lewis And the D'Oyley Carte Company (No that's not a spelling mistake. Its on the film in that way) It is my belief that the reason why the BFI copies do not have a cast list is because Rupert D'Oyly Carte did not wish to see his name spelled wrongly on public screens in cinemas. It is likely that my copy was never actually professionally projected before I had the transfer made. I do not know if Elsie Griffin's copy was ever used. One can speculate if any of the other artists were given copies and if so what happened to them? The film runs for about four minutes only. You asked if copies would/could be made and Peter Zavon's answer is correct; no copies are likely to be made. You asked about showings at Buxton. The position was as described in that the copy got mislaid temporarily. When it was found I showed it 'ad nauseam' to anyone interested both in the room used for videos in the Palace Hotel and in the Portacabin office of the Festival. It is of course in PAL format. You asked if anyone pointed a camcorder at the screen while I was showing it. Answer, not while I was present, but I did leave it running on a repeat basis and was not present all the time. As to what the film depicts: It is a series of very short scenes. One must remember it was made to show off the new costumes and scenery. Each scene has a title. (Subtitling was not 'in vogue' or maybe was not technically achievable then). The scenes are: If you want to know who we are: Three little maids from school are we: Katisha; your revels cease: Braid the raven hair: Entrance of the Mikado with Katisha: The flowers that bloom in the spring: finally shots of Charles Rickets and costume designs. The film would appear to have been made live on stage at the Princess Theatre in the first week or thereabouts of September 1926 as there were cast changes very soon after. My guess is that is was shot at a dress rehearsal in order to get it to the cinemas as close to the actual opening as possible. I hope this somewhat lengthy article will be of use for reference. Peter D Parker. pdp@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Summary-line: 6-Jan Yankvideo@aol.com #Blatant Ad for my new website. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12098; Mon, 6 Jan 97 13:23:09 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01960; Mon, 6 Jan 97 13:23:02 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA06241; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:15:14 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id MAA25516 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:14:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA25494 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:14:35 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA19014 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 13:14:03 -0500 Message-Id: <970106123215_1257715869@emout19.mail.aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 13:14:03 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Yankvideo@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Blatant Ad for my new website. X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 13:14:03 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: Yankvideo@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Blatant Ad for my new website. X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Ahem. Please check out www.springlakemi.com/~syankee for the finest in meaningful information, entertainment gems and more shameless propaganda about my books and tapes and reports and services. A virgin at website design, I just hammered my site together on a whim --in a 32 hour marathon reminding me of the days I used to produce multi-image slide presentations for corporate clients. The rule of thumb seems to be: 4.0 cups of coffee per 1.25 hours. Your comments would be appreciated. I'm going to sleep now. Steve STEVE YANKEE COMMUNICATIONS Grand Haven, Michigan  1,, Summary-line: 8-Jan MoovyMagic@aol.com #Re: Auto-audio levels. One (corrupt) way to beat the system. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26188; Wed, 8 Jan 97 09:02:54 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07236; Wed, 8 Jan 97 09:02:50 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id IAA03175; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:00:40 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id HAA18342 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 07:59:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id HAA18326 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 07:59:45 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id IAA16585 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:59:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <970108085856_1856936620@emout17.mail.aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:59:15 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Auto-audio levels. One (corrupt) way to beat the system. X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:59:15 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Auto-audio levels. One (corrupt) way to beat the system. X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN I have an admittedly somewhat inconvenient method for reducing the effect of auto-level controls on VHS consumer decks that will probably work with cameras as well. You're on your own, but here's the central idea. It really works quite well.... If the auto level has an incoming signal of a moderate level to relate itself to, it will not soar to a high-gain condition. The pumping between the highest gain condition, and the "normal" level is the main objection to the lousy auto-level sound. That pumping can be greatly reduced by keeping a moderate signal constantly coming in. We feed the dub rack of cheap VHS decks here a moderate signal at 10 cycles per second---10 Hz to you whippersnappers. If that signal is too loud, the desired sound will sound "modulated" or "fluttery". If that signal is too weak, the auto-level pumping effect will be less reduced. So you have to experiment with both the level, and the exact frequency. Such a low frequency will not be reproduced by the speakers, but it will be sensed and reacted to by the auto-level electronics, which mostly will sense and react down to nearly zero Hertz. Your camera will probably have a deliberately electronically limited ultra-low end sensitivity to reduce wind noise effects and other infra-sonic effects, but you can most likely find a frequency which will be inside its curve, and still be inaudible. If your mixer has a "low cut" or a room-rumble filter, you can remove all traces of this pilot tone while you're doing post production. If you're using off-camera mikes, and one of those tiny field mixers bolted to the bottom of your camera, you can create the tone by modifying your mixer's zero-level reference tone by adding a capacitor or some such. Consult your local card-carrying memember of the "Hot Soldering Iron" patrol for product-specific assistance. A two-position switch will give you normal tone, or pilot tone as you need it. If you're not using a field mixer, some sorta little module can be "Y" connected into the mike lead. Maybe a little in-line box with an in and an out---you get the idea. Another method is to make a tiny stand-alone module, and stick it one of the mixer's other channels. There's an old standby circuit called a "Twin-T Oscillator" that's particularly easy to make, has a very low parts-count, and can be made very, very small. Check out those little engineer's circuit books they have a t Radio Shack. One of 'em has a Twin-T in it. The Twin-T also has a pure sine wave out, which is crucially important in this admittedly degenerate excuse for a proper procedure, since the more non-sinewave the oscillator's waveform, the more it will throw off harmonics that will intrude into the audible spectrum. So you gotta use a pure sinewave no matter what you do. It's easier than it sounds, and it works better than you might think. But you have to experiment to get best results. bb s1  1,, Summary-line: 19-Jan EST812@aol.com #FS: Filmmaking Course Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03334; Sun, 19 Jan 97 17:58:44 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28010; Sun, 19 Jan 97 17:58:44 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA08832; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:55:08 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id QAA15573 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:55:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA15567 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:55:08 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id RAA12962 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:54:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <970119175433_102160025@emout15.mail.aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:54:35 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: EST812@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: FS: Filmmaking Course X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:54:35 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: EST812@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: FS: Filmmaking Course X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN Bring your cinematic aesthetics up to speed. Avoid time consuming and costly takes, retakes and excessive editing charges by "Understanding Cinema Basics, through the Director's Eye." "Understanding Cinema" is a 14 hour (on (7) 2 hr. cassettes) master seminar by the award winning Professor Benjamin Hayeem of New York University and is only $150 complete! Inspired by the genius of his associate Slavko Vorkapich, pioneer of the Hollywood montage and renowned lecturer Professor Hayeem examines the fundamentals of the moving image in this video bible of film. This body of knowledge known as the Vorkapich Method has warned the respect and gratitude of thousands of students and working professionals alike since 1938. Until now the only way to get the full impact of this material was in a classroom or a lecture hall. "Understanding Cinema" is the most valuable conceptual film making tool you can own. The Vorkapich seminars have been copied, imitated and plagiarized in every film course in America. This lecture series has been given to packed audiences at NYU, USC, UCLA, Princeton, The Museum of Modern Art, The Museum of Moving Image and LIncoln Center. Joseph E. Levine says: "Ben Hayeem is teaching the bible of cinema" Woody Allen says: "Ben Hayeem is indeed a wonderful teacher and expert" Martin Sheen says: "How could any film maker not take this course?" Harold Becker (Director; "Sea of Love"; "The Onion Field") says: "Incredible presentation clarifying the visual principles" William Friedkin (Director; "The Exorcist", "The French Connection") says: "I have learned more about film making just listening to the lectures" Paul Hirsh (Editor; "Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back", "Carrie") says: "The lectures are stimulating and thought provoking" Ira Lewis (Playwright, Chinese Coffee) says: "Elegant, edifying and profoundly informative lectures by a masterful teacher." Here are the program highlights: Category 1: Static Camera/Static object Category 2: Static Camera/Moving Object Category 3: Moving Camera/Static Object Category 4: Moving Camera/Moving Object Seminar material includes: 1. Illusion of movement, the Phi phenomenon and Phi transformation 2. Sagittal plane replaces the stage line 3. Bipolar organization 4. Gestalt Law of good continuity 5. The Iris experiment, 3 dimensionality, rotation 6. The variables of shooting vs. the constants of projection 7. Visual angles, wide, telephoto, normal lenses 8. Pan, dolly, zoom, induced, transferred and cancelled motions 9. Hand-held reality transformations 10. Filmic analysis including overlapping, repetition and jump cutting 11. Fundamental moving picture effects, including slow, fast, stop and reverse action 12. Kinesthetic organization of movement 13. Montage vs. continuity editing 14. Choreography, violence and space play 15. Symbolism and imagery "Understanding Cinema" is logical and very simple to grasp, even by beginners. It is illustrated with film clips of the grand masters of film making. Now you can own this brilliant film making tool for only $150. "Understanding Cinema through the Director's Eye" will improve your point of view and put you in control. We pay postage and handling. Make your check or money order to: I.Q. Management, c/o Editech Corporation, 694 NE 76 St.#4, Miami, FL 33138  1,, Summary-line: 31-Jan MoovyMagic@aol.com #Re: Leasing gear -- Very long, and I hope useful to newcomers. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16986; Fri, 31 Jan 97 17:12:29 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04188; Fri, 31 Jan 97 17:12:26 EST Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA09290; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:04:08 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id QAA08958 for vidpro-l@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:00:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA08545 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:59:23 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA10645 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:28:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <970131152823_1047704841@emout10.mail.aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:28:25 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Leasing gear -- Very long, and I hope useful to newcomers. X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:28:25 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Sender: owner-vidpro-l@bgu.edu From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Leasing gear -- Very long, and I hope useful to newcomers. X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN After reading this thread, and a few like it, and realizing there are some people who are newcomers to business as well as The Business, I'd like to offer a few useful thoughts that have served us well in banking, and in financing our small company. (We are two general partners, six years at the current address, and file IRS as a partnership. In The Business for eighteen years....) Previously, we were at another address working as a separate small company in a symbiotic relationship with an Academy Award-Winning Big Shot in special effects for film for commercials. We were the little bird that lives in the hippopotamus' ear. Those were good times. Ultimately, the hippo retired after a long and illustrious career. If some of these things that follow sound like a "con", don't be shocked or surprised. They aren't meant to be dishonest in any way; but they do recognize how the real world works. I'm not sure I like the way the real world works; but I'm just a small guy, so I play it to my advantage when I can; and I try to change it where I can---but that's another chataqua... I know all these thoughts won't work for you, so pick and choose. 1. Banks are not public utilities. They are profit-making businesses with a product to sell or rent. That product is money. Don't let all the marble and columns and leather chairs and solemn atmosphere fool you. They are bottom-line oriented, and each banker who has an actual desk in the bank's "front end" has a portfolio of customers they "brought in" and are more or less credited with or blamed for, personally. Banks don't "give" you loans. They rent you the power money conveys. Nowadays, they are every bit as profitable as the very most profitable of legitimate businesses. Who owns the biggest buildings in any town? 2. Become a Real Person to your Personal Banker. Only do your most routine transactions with a teller at a window. Don't use ATM's for anything. Become A Regular Customer. Use your personal banker as a sounding board for simple business operations advice, and to refer you to other services you need,. like CPA's or laywers. As you are referred to others, tell them who sent you. Your personal banker is probably not much more sophisticated in business than you are, but let them think they are a Valued Advisor. You'd be surprised how many people---who really form the financial structure of your town---that they know. The Local Chamber of Commerce network is far more influential than you probably think. Join it, and you'll quickly see. Banks "give" loans to people they feel comfortable with---especially when all the formula rating methods are a bit on the edge. Your personal banker has what amounts to a "floor limit" for loans and activities that they can handle on their own discretion without messy complexities like supervisors and committees. It's probably 5-10 thousand if they have a desk out in the open in the "front end", and probably 10-25 thousand if they have a small office with a door. Beyond that, things get more complex. Break your butt to never let this person down, to never violate the trust they put in you. If this person changes banks, go with them to the new bank. If they get promoted out of a position where they can continue with you, ask them to make an intro to somebody who can carry on with you. There is probably no more important single trade relationship you'll ever have. 3. Finding the right bank. It's a service business. If you think you have the wrong bank how, here's one way to get off on the right foot with a new one. Find the bank that has the hours and location you want. Make it a small one-town, two or three office bank. Huge institutions will never treat you with any respect, or any personal service. Their great power is of no use to you. Next time you score a two or three thousand dollar check from a client, go into the new bank you've identified as a good one, and use that check to set up a new business checking account. (Don't open the account with Chump Change. Be a "player".) Go in at around ten a.m. on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or a Thursday. Things are slowest then, and they'll have time to talk to you, to learn a little about who you are. Tell them all about your business, especially where you want to take it over time. (Don't be a bore.) Take plenty of time to get the right type of account, with the right business checks and book format, and especially with the right monthly charges and suite of services. Try like hell to make your account "bounce proof" by giving your personal banker your home phone number, or a small security deposit in another account---whatever it takes. Let your new personal banker determine just how to do it---it starts to get them psychologically invested in you as a person. Visit with them personally from time to time on some thin excuse to keep up the continuous personal contact. Sounds like a lot of trouble? It is. But it's going to be vitally important to putting over your first few deals---like when you need a fast 3,000 dollars to finance a project you just landed. Walk in with a solid purchase order, show it to them, and enlist their help in fronting you a few thousand on a sixty day business note against the p.o. Assume they want to help you. Do this entire process all over again at another bank if they don't. (When you need the cash NOW is too late. All this groundwork needs to be done well in advance of that first urgent and timely need.) 4. Don't lease anything. Buy it with a bank loan. Rent it from a rental house. Leasing only makes money for the lessor, and the back ends of many leases really suck. The tax advantages are quickly lost in the higher-than-a-loan total cost of the leasing plan. Show your personal banker any potential leasing deal, and chances are they'll leap into showing you how a bank loan is a better deal..... See how this works? 5. Send good people to Your Banker. NOT just to your bank---to Your Banker. Tell them to make it clear to Your Banker who sent them. Don't send any flakes or duds. (Send them to the bank you hate.) Love your bank. Talk up your bank. Word will get around.... 6. Don't make Your Banker a personal friend. Keep it businesslike. If your bank turns evil, you might have to move out. This is much harder if you get to feel you're pulling the plug on a friend. Banks have no loyalty, and neither should you. You cannot succeed without a good bank behind you. Water and fertilize this relationship regularly. It's your single most important trade relationship. (Yes, I know I said that twice...) I hope you find some of this useful.... Thus armed, go forth, and swing a mighty sword.... bb s1  1,, Summary-line: 4-Feb MoovyMagic@AOL.COM #Next Millenium Revolutionary Editing Manfesto Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06516; Wed, 5 Feb 97 00:06:48 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19108; Wed, 5 Feb 97 00:06:46 EST Received: from srv1.ecnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id XAA29620; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:01:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with ESMTP id WAA27787 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:50:53 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id WAA07088 for vidpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:44:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com (emout05.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.96]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id WAA06799 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:43:55 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA23142 for vidpro-l@bgu.edu; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:43:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <970204194916_-1744176003@emout05.mail.aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:43:42 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: MoovyMagic@AOL.COM To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Next Millenium Revolutionary Editing Manfesto X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:43:42 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: MoovyMagic@AOL.COM To: vidpro-l@bgu.edu Subject: Next Millenium Revolutionary Editing Manfesto X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Catchy title, eh folks? Thought I'd pull the pin on a thought grenade, and toss it into this cyber-cage, and wait for the big boom. Seriously, I hope and I bet we all learn something from this thread. For some of you, this will all be very obvious---and you're doing it now. For some, you might conclude that you've come halfway. For others, some of this might shake up your thought process. Still others might perceive a New Lean, Mean, and More Efficient Method for doing business, made possible for the first time by the new technology. Seat belts securely fastened? Tray tables up and locked? Here we go! I'm proposing that how many of us think about the editing process is outmoded, and should be changed drastically. My "Revolutionary Editing Manifesto For The New Millenium", as I modestly call it, holds that the model of the production process that we now all participate in has been invalidated by the new technology. Folks operating "project studios", and probably a majority of small-company and individual NLE owners are much farther along the road to The New Millenium Model---but need to consider the last few steps to make a clean and complete break with the past. A friend of ours, who's owned expensive on-line edit suites for the last 25 years, bought an Avid 8000 late last year, ($117,000) and promply installed it in his new Edit B suite---complete with nice grey rug and walls, with expensive track lighting, and a nice little producer's supervising desk elevated on a little platform and back a few feet---just like his several year-old BetaCam to D2 suite in Edit A. Nice, black leather, sumptuous "Space Commander Chairs" and everything... If you know What's Arrived In New Technolgy, then you instantly see what's wrong with that picture. Indeed, lots of his clients want to sit in the orchestra pit, right at the editor's very elbow, and see all the meticulous computer-driven action up close and personal. The Revolutionary New Millenium Edit Model Paradigm Calls For: 1. The editor attends the shoot(s) as an observer, perhaps making useful suggestions since his head is not overloaded. His job is to learn the content, learn the significant issues from the client, and know the internal politics and other secondary information considerations---like what NOT to show---in the script. (In the current model, the first an editor knows about a program's content is the day the producer shows up in the edit bay with a milk carton full of tapes---and in One Very Big Hurry to get it all done.) 2. After the show is in the can, the editor and producer and/or director have a brief meeting as the set is wrapped, kicking around any last-minute thoughts or problems while it's all still fresh. 3. The editor leaves with the tapes, and the next day(s) does an "editor's cut" working alone. When this is ready, they hold a meeting at the producer's convenience and location for a viewing, critique, and to take notes for any changes. The editor goes back and makes the changes. Barring any final tweaks, the program is now done. Instead of one or more full, boring, long, nerve-wracking days, the total time investment in the edit process on the part of the producer/director is only an hour or two---not fourteen! During this process the producer/director is not tempted to meddle with minor things that don't really matter---wasting time, and slowing the process. (They all do that. They can't help themselves. They're sitting there, watching the grass grow, bored silly most of the time. It's too tempting. They're control freaks, or they wouldn't even BE directors.) Instead, they get to see the show all the way through the first time---more like the audience will---as a whole piece, with the momentum and sweep of narrative you can never grasp in an edit bay as the meticulous stitches are put in one at a time, at an agonizingly slow pace. (The stark and simple fact is, most individual edits are not subject to much interpretation. You cut when the talent finishes his last words. You cut when the pan ends. You dissolve for a nice relaxed mood; you cut cut cut cut cut cut cut for fabulous high energy pacing. You dazzle 'em with digital tumbling executives and frantic flying stuff when you have only a thin message. Taste is only rarely the issue. Most of it's rote and obvious. When you're a high-power, short attention-span, overscheduled, adrenalin-addicted, control freak producer, just passively WATCHING this getting tinkered together semi-automatically is torture. So out of displaced revenge against a cruel and arbitrary universe, you producers torture the poor editor with silly little unnecessary tweaks to help pass the time.) 4. The editor works for a fixed price, set before the show is even shot. This is necessary, not optional. It does two things. Firstly, it helps the producer control and lock in his prices for any particular project. This is the crucial carrot inducement to give up some of the control to another creative mind. Secondly, things will not get silly and out of hand in making revisions to the modifications to the changes to the alterations with a flaky producer. You simply threaten, with the stick, to put him back on hourly, and he can fribble away all the time and money he wants. There go the savings! It is recognized this model will not fit all producers. Some will simply not be psychologically able to surrender any control to another creative team member. Some will badly abuse the unlimited ability to revise. After sticking to your agreement, and finishing the program for them under the agreed-upon rules till they're unconditionally happy---no matter how long it takes, you simply never work price fixed with them again. (And in our case, never work with them again at all. This new paradigm isn't voluntary with us. It's The One True Way we'll do editing business in the future. Editing for hire is not our core business. Special effects is. A little editing in a "Limited Practice" for a short list of producers who can delegate is valuable fill-in work for us, but not a crucial profit center.) We optomistically estimate maybe five to ten percent of the producers we know will be able to see the value of this approach, and welcome the editor in as a creative partner with valid ideas and a fresh point of view that will only add to the show's audience appeal. (The guy who just bought the Avid is certain the real percentage is zero. He has to think that way. He's still got over a megabuck tied up in Edit A.) We know our clients. It'll work for some of them.... This method is much closer to the most often-encountered Hollywood model of film editing. (When Hollywood is being sane, businesslike, and efficient.) Television, and it's methods, grew from the 1950's live, real-time, on-the-air-right-now model, so TV never had time to become thoughtful and even leisurely about how it does things. Even the term "On-Line" means, literally, on the coax--outbound, live, to the transmitter; and spilling out into living rooms everywhere. These days, most of us work much more like documentary filmmakers, and much less like live broadcast news people. So the emphasis on raw editing speed is inappropriate much of the time. Boom! bb s1  1,, Summary-line: 13-Feb Bill Sommerfeld #"highway1" installed & working (for me, at least..) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19812; Thu, 13 Feb 97 17:36:38 EST Received: from relay.hp.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03016; Thu, 13 Feb 97 17:36:34 EST Received: from it_750.ch.apollo.hp.com ([15.22.48.2]) by relay.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA276403390; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:36:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199702132236.AA276403390@relay.hp.com> Received: from snarfblatt.ch.apollo.hp.com by it_750.ch.apollo.hp.com id AA103183390; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:36:30 -0500 To: tech-toys@MIT.EDU Subject: "highway1" installed & working (for me, at least..) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:36:29 -0500 From: Bill Sommerfeld *** EOOH *** To: tech-toys@MIT.EDU Subject: "highway1" installed & working (for me, at least..) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:36:29 -0500 From: Bill Sommerfeld I took this morning off from work for the installation of Continental Cablevision's "Highway1" service. Here are some rambles about the process.. *before* I have been using TIAC's flat-rate dialup ISDN service for well over a year; it's been working well, but highway1 sounded like it's a better value for the money, so I decided to give it a shot. I already had cable tv service from Continental, and it was set up as two drops from the street, with one feeding two drops in my house, and the other feeding three. I figured that they'd just tap into those.. nope.. *the visit* Two trucks pulled up, one from a cable installation company and one from Continental. There was a two-person crew: one "cable guy" and one "computer guy", operating as a team. They carried these funky motorola combo commercial HT/cellphone radios for coordinating their work. A quick site assessment determined that: a) the RG59 coax I pulled through the walls to near the computer was not up to spec. b) the drop from the pole was also not up to spec. c) the splitters in the house were not up to spec. Fixing (a) was simple (the RG59 was used as a pull wire for heavier quad-shielded RG6). Fixing (b) involved waiting for a police detail to stop traffic on Summer Street while they strung a (third) coax drop across the street, as well as a 2 1/2 foot long 1/2 drill bit to put another hole through the wall into my house. While the cable tech was pulling cable, the computer tech installed the modem, and updated my entry in their customer database (he did this over a conventional analog modem from his laptop, borrowing my phone line..). *The modem* The cable modem is an ethernet "bridge", doing a filtering store-and-forward of ethernet frames between an ethernet domain on one side and the cable TV system on the other. The cable modem is about the same size as the old Telebit Trailblazer modems; it can lay flat, or stand up on edge. It has a separate power-supply "brick". The most noticeable feature on it are some Very Large heat sink fins on the "top" side. The computer installer said that the fins are there mostly so that you don't put anything on top of the modem.. It has three connectors on the back: Power AUI (15-pin D connector) for ethernet CATV coax "F" barrel connector. It has four LED's on the front: power "synch" - goes on when it's talking to the head-end xmit/recv (or maybe xmit/collision) They supplied a Cabletron 10baseT tranceiver/MAU and a 10baseT crossover cable to connect between my ethernet card and the modem. *the whole system* Once the modem was connected to the cable, there was a wait of several minutes while it synched up with the headend. It's unclear what this entails, but it took longer than they expected in my case .. they disconnected the modem, plugged in a test set, and verified signal strength (which was excellent), then plugged the modem back in. As always, Murphy got involved, and it didn't synch up until after one of the installers went out to the truck to pick up a second modem.. They have the modem configured to filter on the LAN address of my ethernet card; if I ever change it, I'll have to call them so they can reconfigure the modem. There appears to be a moderate amount of non-IP ethernet multicast and broadcast "grunge" being let through by the modem; tcpdump shows about 3-4pps of non-ip traffic being let through the modem. The installer mentioned that they are likely to offer a "home LAN" service (with up to 4 ip addresses) at a slightly higher rate (but at a lower per-port rate) in the next few months, using a different modem. *price* $99.00 install $49.95/month if you also get cable TV (which I do). The replacement cost of the cable modem is cited at $650.00, so they're betting on people sticking with this technology for a while. This may seem like a lot for internet service, but remember that this includes both local-loop charges *and* IP service.. Those of you who have a second line just for the computer now don't need that second line.. Compared with my previous service (dialup ISDN through TIAC), which cost: $250 for ISDN modem ??? for NYNEX ISDN install recurring costs: ~$28.00/mo for second phone line with ISDN sevice $39.95/mo to tiac for 100hour ISDN. Bottom line: if I have them turn off my second line, I *save* $17/month and get 10x better service. If I keep my second line, I spend $3 more per month and get 10x better service.. *service agreement* The legal agreements contain some scary words about running telnet and FTP servers, but the bottom line seems to be that they don't care what you do with the service so long as you don't run servers that *other people* use. There's also some comments in their "privacy disclosure notice" on the back page of the subscriber agreement; it sounds like they're reserving the right to do traffic analysis in order to understand how to provision their network and web proxies. *software* I told them at every opportunity that I was going to be using their network with NetBSD, not Windows, but they they only wanted to see Windows95 running. I humored them. They installed a "tweaked" netscape (with slightly different menus) and a bunch of multimedia plugins (which they didn't completely install because my DOS partition was really small..). They get bonus points for installing the domestic Netscape 3.x (with full strength crypto). They say they require DHCP for host configuration. This appears to only be for their administrative convenience during installation, and not because they want to renumber clients frequently; when I ran a hacked-up NetBSD DHCP client, it reported a lease timeout of close to a year. Rather than run with a (probably bogus) DHCP client, I'm sticking with the hard-coded values. They use the Netscape proxy autoconfig setup with dual proxies and an, umm, interesting approach for proxy load distribution... function FindProxyForURL(url, host) { if (isPlainHostName(host) || dnsDomainIs(host, ".nm.highway1.com")) return "DIRECT"; else if (shExpMatch(url, "https://*")) return "DIRECT"; else if (shExpMatch(host, "www.[a-m]*") || shExpMatch(host, "[a-m]*")) return "PROXY proxy1.ne.highway1.com:8080; " + "PROXY proxy2.ne.highway1.com:8080; " + "DIRECT"; else if (shExpMatch(host, "www.[n-z]*") || shExpMatch(host, "[n-z]*")) return "PROXY proxy2.ne.highway1.com:8080; " + "PROXY proxy1.ne.highway1.com:8080; " + "DIRECT"; else return "PROXY proxy2.ne.highway1.com:8080; " + "PROXY proxy1.ne.highway1.com:8080; " + "DIRECT"; } Shades of the old student-center cluster timesharing account setup :-).. *performance* Latency: Latency really screams compared with modem and ISDN+RS232; ~7ms RTT to MIT, vs. 90-100ms for my current ISDN setup, and ~200ms for V.32 analog modem. Basically, it feels more-or-less like an ethernet connection. Throughput They claim inbound bandwidth of ~1.5 megabit/sec and outbound bandwidth of ~.3megabit/second. I've seen inbound FTP's of moderate-sized files run as fast as 80kbytes/second (640 kilobits/second of *useful* throughput; probably using something like 700-750 kilobits/second of line bandwidth what with ethernet, IP, and TCP headers..); that's an appreciable chunk of the line speed and it's also about 13 times faster than the 6kb/sec that my ISDN connection maxed out at.  1,, Summary-line: 19-Feb Robert E Lamm #Re: Paradigm, shmaradigm, tell the story. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21234; Wed, 19 Feb 97 11:14:19 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23041; Wed, 19 Feb 97 11:14:17 EST Received: from srv1.ecnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA20996; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:12:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with ESMTP id GAA08778 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:15:36 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id GAA16465 for vidpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06 :15:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id GAA16458 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:15:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.5/BZS-8-1.0) id HAA24338; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:15:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18894; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:15:37 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:15:36 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: Robert E Lamm To: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us Cc: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Paradigm, shmaradigm, tell the story. In-Reply-To: <9701188562.AA856291338@ccmailgw.state.il.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN *** EOOH *** idpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net>; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:15:36 -0600 (CST) :15:42 -0600 (CST) PRO-L@bgu.edu>; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:15:39 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:15:36 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: Robert E Lamm To: mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us Cc: VIDPRO-L@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Paradigm, shmaradigm, tell the story. In-Reply-To: <9701188562.AA856291338@ccmailgw.state.il.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN I don't know if industrials and educationals need scripts, but they sure do need a bit of organization and outlines to make sure everything gets done. When I worked in an academic video-educational environment, we made educational tapes on subjects like digital electronics with professors at the school. We worked with each one to come up with an outline. Basically, the idea was to see how much material he had, what materials would need to be done in advance, etc. This usually also focused the instructor's mind on the subject matter and got him to organize things. Before shooting started, we would already know how many episodes we were making, what the subject of each one was, there would be an outline on what would be covered down to each point, all the visual aids and demos would be prepared, and we would have done some preliminary blocking. The instructor would come in, and we would spend about a day on general blocking and other issues, the rest would be taken care of in shooting, which we tried to do in sequence as much as possible. We avoided rehearsals: A good rehearsal is a wasted take! A couple of rules that worked for us: 1) The instructor, as the authority, got to write the 'script'. Most video people found them boring, but the audience, who was usually listening to a world-class authority, liked hearing their unmediated dialogue, even if it was a little unpolished. 2) Actually, they didn't have scripts: We encouraged them to make an outline and let them speak naturally. We did not use a teleprompter, if the instructor had a lot of points he wanted to be sure to cover, we made a chart that he could stand next to (like a weather map), that he could use as a prompt. The chart was usually helpful to the audience too. We would resist teleprompters because the instructors would read them blindly. 3) Instructors who had trouble talking for long periods of time without making gaffes were simply shot in lots of small segments: We'd change the angle, cut away to a visual aid or graphic, etc. As they got more relaxed, they tended to have less problems of this sort. 4) Whenever possible, we made lots of charts and graphs that the instructor could hold up or stand next to during his presentation. Also lots of show-and-tell demos, preferably with moving pieces and smoke coming out. These made the tape more interesting and gave the instructor lots of crutches and segways to keep him on track. Preparation of these materials took a lot of time and was a major part of pre-production. They were also a lot of trouble to shoot, especially if there were small internal pieces that had to be shown. But the tapes were better for it so we made the effort. We also had some interesting war stories: A fish-skinning machine that tore the fish apart and left stinky goo all over our studio, all sorts of collapsing, exploding, misoperative gadgets of every imaginable variety... 5) All other graphics were merely roughed out on paper for guidance and made afterward. That way that could be customized to the content. Close-ups of the demos and visual aids that didn't involve the instructor were also shot after he had left for the day. 6) Sometimes we got a wild and crazy guy who would insist on doing dopey things. One professor wanted to use his own writing (on a pad of paper) so he could explain things as he went along rather than the pre-made graphics. We gave him some very fat magic markers, but still had big problems with legibility. This same fellow didn't want to do the classes in order, he did every other one first, then shaved off his beard. It made for an interesting presentation on probability, which is what the series was about. 7) In many cases, the hardest thing to plan around was the instructor's other committments. They were generally only available for a limited amount of time, we would sometimes have problems getting everything done before they got on a plane to the next technical conference. Getting them back for extra shooting was very difficult, so we made big efforts to get everything down the first time around. This is the main reason you need to plan ahead: It's so difficult to catch up later. We generally shot everything involving the instructor first, then went back and picked up all the inserts, finished off graphics, etc. 8) A lot of these tapes were based on books. These made excellent tie-ins, as did the hard-copy study guides that we prepared. But you should take this into account so that materials can be reused as much as possible. The use of vector-based graphics, which can easily be rearranged and output to various media is more efficient than bitmaps. CD-ROMs are becoming a big thing too, these can eat up huge amounts of material, leave plenty of time to do things like color correction of stills, etc. When pre-production was properly done, everything else tended to fall into place easily: Shoots progressed steadily, editing was just a question of pasting the pieces together. But when things were ad-libbed, lots of time got wasted, the presentation would be hard to follow, and a lot of opportunities for making the tape more effective would be lost. By the way, I saw your other post on measuring effectiveness: We sold our tapes, that was a pretty good measure. I can't say that production style had a big effect on sales, some of the best sellers were basically just talking heads. What people liked were presentations by the leading authority on some hot subject that everyone wanted to know about. As long as the subject matter was clearly conveyed, people were happy. The one comment we got back was that all graphics, particularly math equations, should be on whenever they are referred to and then some so people can do a little figuring out. So some of our talking-head tapes barely showed the instructor after he introduced himself: Just the math that he was showing until he came back so say goodbye. We also tried some series where we set up two cameras on motorized pan/tilts in a room and the crew consisted of a single director/camera controller/VRT man. These were very successful (they were on very topical subjects like solar energy), and cost us practically nothing to make. We used B/W security cameras! One last comment: Technical material dates fast. None of these tapes is available commercially any more. -Bob Lamm CYNC Corp. Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership Onetime Facility Manager at MIT Video Productions On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 mark_suszko_@ccmailgw.state.il.us wrote: > > Whichever bB told the story about the poor theater class, > (sniff), I love you, man!!!(sniff). > > But today's bit is about editing sans script. I have read in a > few trades about a developing technique where the editor writes > the script *AFTER* editing the show. I guess this would mostly > apply to documentary-type storytelling, maybe some news feature > pieces. > > The idea, as I understand it, is that footage is rarely exactly > as the script envisioned it anyway, and there may be great > stuff that happened in the shoot that was unplanned. So the > editor starts with a rough idea of the intended structure, but > is free to cut things up any way they want (this is non-linear > we're talking). Once the final cut is approved, a script is > reverse-engineered from the master tape. What that's good for > after the fact, I won't get into here. > > Well, I fancy the idea, seeing as with some clients' projects, > that's basically what I do already, but only with very > short-form work, mostly spots. But it plays bloody hell with > the approvals process in my gub-mint job, so even though I'm > gonna try for it on an upcoming project, I'm not sure it will > play. Everything in a gov. project is tied up in CYA > procedures; proposals, approvals, reviews, re-approvals, change > orders, re-approvals, etc. It is easy to wind up with a camel > project, or none at all, if the consensus hydra reaches a > critical mass of heads. To tell this beast: "hey, just let me > cut it nice, and you approve it later, 'kay?" - well, its too > radical for my operating environment. > > There also is the problem of trust. If your first cut "needs a > straw", the clients are going to be less and less forgiving as > you go from iteration to iteration. The pressure to nail it > first time is high, but the viewing process is so subjective, > what IS a good cut anymore?:-) > > So, group, have any of you experienced such an unstructured > edit - on PURPOSE, I mean:-) What can you say for/against? > > Mark Suszko > "yeah, we can do that" >  1,, Summary-line: 19-Feb Bill Buccalo #Re: Getting cameras in sync with attitude but no money Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28727; Wed, 19 Feb 97 15:38:33 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08362; Wed, 19 Feb 97 15:38:29 EST Received: from srv1.ecnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id OAA17858; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:07:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with ESMTP id NAA16963 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:53:41 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id NAA03297 for vidpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13 :47:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from bart.acs.nmu.edu (root@bart.acs.NMU.EDU [198.110.193.8]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA03140 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:47:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from NMUPPP2-18.NMU.EDU (NMUPPP2-18.NMU.EDU [198.110.207.178]) by bart.acs.nmu.edu (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA1127 7 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:47:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702191947.OAA11277@bart.acs.nmu.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:47:19 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: wbuccalo@nmu.edu (Bill Buccalo) To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Subject: Re: Getting cameras in sync with attitude but no money Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Authentication-Warning: bart.acs.nmu.edu: NMUPPP2-18.NMU.EDU [198.110.207.178] didn't use HELO protocol X-Sender: wbuccalo@pop.mail.nmu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN *** EOOH *** idpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net>; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:53:41 -0600 (CST) :47:46 -0600 (CST) 7 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:47:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:47:19 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: wbuccalo@nmu.edu (Bill Buccalo) To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Subject: Re: Getting cameras in sync with attitude but no money Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Authentication-Warning: bart.acs.nmu.edu: NMUPPP2-18.NMU.EDU [198.110.207.178] didn't use HELO protocol X-Sender: wbuccalo@pop.mail.nmu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Some good suggestions have been made about sync, but no sync. May I add a couple of more relating to multiple cameras running without genlock? I'm sure that some things I say will be obvious, but here they are anyway. Run tests with the setup you intend to use. Use a slate with clapper sticks (like we use in film) and have a good sharp close up of it. Clap the sticks gently so as not to blur the image. Often hand claps are dificult to see. Speak the voice id BEFORE the clap; not during it. Keep all of the cameras running during the take. Put another slate, sync pop mark and id at the END of the take. For this hold the slate upside down and identify it as a tail slate. By using the slates and pop sync marks at both the beginning and end of each take, you can calculate exactly how far out of sync the cameras are. This information can then be used to help get shots in sync in the middle of the take. You might find out that they are not off enough to cause a problem. On a shoot I did some years ago the cameras were within plus or minus one frame after 20 minutes! Maybe the god's were smiling. :) (BTW, doing it right with genlock, etc. is the way to go.) HTH, Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >In a message dated 97-02-18 23:17:57 EST, you write: > ><< To do this, have all your > camera operators focus on you (or some one you designate) at the start of > each recording and have this person clap hands so that the sound of the clap > is audible on all tapes (it's best to use a closely located microphone at >the > handclapper's position fed to all camcorders to do this) and the clap is > visible on all tapes. That will give you a starting timing reference for all > your camcorders. The cameras will not be genlocked so there will be drift > between them, but you will at least have a reference point to line them up > together in the edit. The amount of drift may be acceptable depending on the > accuracy of the cameras' internal clock frequencies and how long you go > between sync claps. > >>  1,, Summary-line: 22-Feb David Knight #Re: VIDPRO-L digest 1316 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08186; Sat, 22 Feb 97 12:44:53 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16811; Sat, 22 Feb 97 12:44:51 EST Received: from srv1.ecnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA29872; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:40:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with ESMTP id LAA29470 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:35:01 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id LAA12611 for vidpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11 :35:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from cotf.edu (COTF.EDU [198.185.178.3]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA12599 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:35:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.185.178.108] by cotf.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA27928; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:38:21 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:38:21 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: knight@cotf.edu (David Knight) To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Subject: Re: VIDPRO-L digest 1316 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN *** EOOH *** idpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net>; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:35:01 -0600 (CST) :35:12 -0600 (CST) et>; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:35:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:38:21 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: knight@cotf.edu (David Knight) To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Subject: Re: VIDPRO-L digest 1316 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN >>I kinda have been holding back because I couldn't remember the title, but >>back in the early seventies someone made one of the greatest films that I can >>remember. It was the history of the 20th century done in one minute. >>Hundreds, if not thousands of quick cuts flashed upon the screen for one >>minute. I think the sound track was a drum roll. Does anyone remember those >>years better than me. >> >>Paul Farren >leslie strom wrote: >Sounds like "Classical Gas," with music by the same name by Paul Mauriat. >It was great works of art cut to the music so you saw about four pictures a >second! It was shown on the Smothers Comedy Brothers Hour. > I must respectfully correct Ms. Strom. You seem to have 'tapered off' on this one, Leslie :-). Actually, Bill Buccalo's response of Charles (I think so, may have been William?) Braverman was correct. He created the 'Great Works of Art-' and 'History of 20th Century' (in 60 seconds) films. Marvelous fun, and copied (usually badly) by every high-schooler with a super-8 camera and volume of encyclopedias available. My personal version ended with a slow zoom into the screaming runaway featured in the famous Kent State photo, but I digress. "Classical Gas" was an insturmental for classical guitar and orchestra written & performed by Mason Williams. It was a semi-big hit on pop radio in '68 (or '69??), probably helped by Mr. Williams' memorable performance of it on the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour (cited by Leslie). My sketchy memory of it is: Williams began seated alone on stage, under a single spotlight, playing his guitar. As the song progressed into the orchestre 'rave-up' section, life-sized photo cutouts of Williams playing various instruments appeared - sometimes alone (tympani), sometimes in multiple exposure groups (4 to 6 Williams' in string & brass sections), cut in time to the music and featuring whatever instrument had the lead at that particular time. The tympani part was my favorite (I played 'em in school at the time) - it cut about five or six different shots (arms in different positions) to pseduo-animate the action. The same technique was also used at times with the strings and trombones. At the conclusion of the song, where things had settled back down to mainly the guitar, the camera was back on the live Williams on his chair. As he finished the piece, the last shot was a pull back to reveal all the photo blow-up Williams' around him, in an orchestra seating arrangement, standing at rest to accept the applause. I was floored by it, and many of the other convention-breaking techniques pioneered by that show and it's contemporary, "Laugh-In". Well worth viewing if and when we vid-pros can find them. Also worth a look, if you are interested in the true roots of MTV, is the 14-minute film "Bolero" featuring Zubin Metha and the L.A. Philharmonic, circa early '70s. I forget who the director was, but it presents the conductor and players individually featured as the music builds. Hard to describe, easy to watch. (And the best presentation of the piece until the movie "10"; but now I really digress). Regards, DK _______________________________________________ David Knight Science Thought of the Day: Writer/Producer/Director The wind is like the air, NASA Classroom of the Future only pushier Wheeling Jesuit University Tel: (304) 243-2015 Fax: (304) 243-2497 knight@cotf.edu  1,, Summary-line: 22-Feb John Kohl #more on highway1 stuff Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25790; Sat, 22 Feb 97 22:23:06 EST Received: from jtk.ne.highway1.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12391; Sat, 22 Feb 97 22:22:59 EST Received: (from jtk@localhost) by pattern.arlington-heights.ma.us (8.8.5/JTK951128) id WAA00464; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 22:22:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 22:22:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702230322.WAA00464@pattern.arlington-heights.ma.us> From: John Kohl To: tech-toys@MIT.EDU Cc: marc@MIT.EDU Subject: more on highway1 stuff X-Us-Snail: 8 Lorne Road, Arlington, MA 02174 Reply-To: jtkohl@MIT.EDU *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 22:22:50 -0500 (EST) From: John Kohl To: tech-toys@MIT.EDU Cc: marc@MIT.EDU Subject: more on highway1 stuff X-Us-Snail: 8 Lorne Road, Arlington, MA 02174 Reply-To: jtkohl@MIT.EDU So, I got highway1 installed at my house on Wednesday. Thanks to Bill's early adoption, I was able to prepare for the installation. Before they arrived, I installed a panel on my basement wall with a UTP punchdown block/patch panel and a UTP hub, and I'd drawn CAT5 cable from the basement up through the wall to my "office" room, and installed two UTP drops there (and two as-yet-unconnected POTS drops). I also constructed a minimal "shelf" to hold the cable modem when it arrived. I put some RG-6 cable through the "small wire" service entrance into my basement, with about 100' sitting in a coil in the basement. This was sufficient for the RF installer to take the portion outside the house and attach it to the drop from the pole. Since the drop had already been replaced during the rebuild of the Arlington cable system, he didn't need to string a new drop to my house. Up on the pole, he removed the back-channel filter from the drop. On the side of my house, he installed a splitter and put the existing cable TV lead on a back-channel filter attached to the splitter. He put the new RG6 onto the other output from the splitter, and ran that through the basement to the panel I installed to handle networking. The computer installer folks (there were 2 of them, plus the "RF guy") worked on the software end of stuff, installing onto my fresh Win95 disk partition. My CD-ROM drive was being flaky, alas, and they ended up having to poke around to find the highway1-customized Netscape on their web site. Once they got that downloaded (using Microsoft IE), things were all set. They gave me only a very little bit of grief about the hub--basically "we don't officially support it, we'll test the system with the cable modem directly patched to the computer; if you call support on a hardware question, reconnect the modem to the computer directly with the crossover cable. wink wink." More on their DHCP addressing: their DHCP server does indeed grant 1-year address leases, but it's sneaky about it: if you ask it again a while later, it will give you a different address, even if you tweak your DHCP client to request the old address again. They have some sort of auto-propagation of address assignments by the DHCP server into their DNS service, so that after some unknown delay (I haven't figured out when they update the DNS zone) your host name translation moves to the new name. (Bill's noticed the same behavior.) If you don't run a DHCP client, it won't give you a new address and seems content to leave your name bound to the current address in the name server. Bill is not on the same ethernet segment/"neighborhood", but is a hop away. So far, I'm satisfied. RTT to MIT is excellent, and AFS works just fine. ==John  1, edited,, Summary-line: 23-Feb Rand Flory #client handbook Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09284; Sun, 23 Feb 97 17:26:44 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22331; Sun, 23 Feb 97 17:26:43 EST Received: from srv1.ecnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA14754; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:22:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with ESMTP id QAA14169 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:17:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id QAA21726 for vidpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16 :17:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from mailhost.wyoming.com (CALAMITY.WYOMING.COM [199.190.151.2]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA21 702 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:17:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from COD-CAP-2.WYOMING.COM ([204.227.211.35]) by mailhost.wyoming.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11190) with SMTP id AAA1956 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:17:28 -0700 Received: by COD-CAP-2.WYOMING.COM with Microsoft Mail id <01BC219B.DF5D1C40@COD-CAP-2.WYOMING.COM>; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:11:41 -0700 Message-Id: <01BC219B.DF5D1C40@COD-CAP-2.WYOMING.COM> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:10:35 -0700 Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: ranflory@wyoming.com (Rand Flory) To: "'vidpro-l@ecnet.net'" Subject: client handbook X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN *** EOOH *** idpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net>; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:17:37 -0600 (CST) :17:38 -0600 (CST) 702 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:17:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:10:35 -0700 Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: ranflory@wyoming.com (Rand Flory) To: "'vidpro-l@ecnet.net'" Subject: client handbook X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Video pros, Last month we had a couple of problems that surfaced based somewhat on lack of a contract. With that as a background, as well as a need to let clients know in advance of what they should expect when we come to their place to shoot a small commercial for them, I came up with the idea of writing a "Production Handbook" for the client. This will be given to the client by the sales person when she sets up the account. Included in the handbook are things that they should know about what to expect from us and what we expect from them. That way there is no misunderstanding about how long we will be there, what we do, what we charge, what they should do to get ready for us, etc. The one problem this will help to solve is the matter of a contract. A handbook may not be a contract, but it does carry some force of law in case there is a dispute about what was to be done for the client (sorry Mike, but it would not have helped with your problem). Ask anyone who has an employee handbook about how much of a contract that turns out to be. Another useful aspect is that the client will be somewhat prepared when we arrive, so we can do more work with less preparation. The handbook is being prepared for TCI customers for whom we are going to shoot low-budget commercials. Has anyone done anything like this before? I wrote my version strictly from scratch. I can't believe no one else has done this, but I have not seen this done. Anyway, I would like to see what the rest of you have done if you have produced such a critter. And of course, if anyone wants a copy of the one I wrote last night, let me know. But for the minds greater than mine, here is an outline (for you to pick apart) of what I wrote: COPYRIGHTS: basically why they can't use copyrighted material. CLOTHING: What to wear and avoid if you appear on camera. HANDS: What to do and not to do with your hands while you are on camera. MAKEUP: What to wear and why you should wear it. (This section is not yet completed. Any suggestions here would be appreciated.) ON-SCENE TIME: letting them know what they get for their money and extra time costs extra money. SITE SURVEY: The client needs to help with a few advance things like ensuring there is adequate electrical outlets, assess noise levels, etc. The idea here is to get the client involved as a team member. This makes for quicker shoots, and perhaps a greater sense of camaraderie with the client. TALENT: Why I feel I need to have everyone sign a contract to use their image/voice. VOICE: how to speak into the mic. WHAT WE GIVE IS WHAT YOU GET: Low budget productions get no second chances. and I end with EXTRA GOODIES: a brief explanation that we can do better work for more money. I am planning to make this into a little 8-page booklet (two 8.5"x11" pages folded in half). Any comments or criticisms or suggestions would be appreciated. Especially if you feel I left things out, put too much in, or if you just feel I had a dumb idea. Thanks. rand ferret@wyoming.com  1,, Summary-line: 24-Feb alan bell #Re: client handbook Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26341; Mon, 24 Feb 97 13:01:17 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21714; Mon, 24 Feb 97 13:01:16 EST Received: from srv1.ecnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA04133; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:33:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with ESMTP id IAA14364 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:35:38 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id IAA16329 for vidpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08 :35:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (mailhost.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.10]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA 16292 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:35:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from [194.112.35.120] (gw2-120.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.35.120]) by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP i d OAA27168 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:35:18 GMT Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:35:18 GMT Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: videocad@dircon.co.uk (alan bell) To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Subject: Re: client handbook Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: videocad@popmail.dircon.co.uk (Unverified) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN *** EOOH *** idpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net>; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:35:38 -0600 (CST) :35:37 -0600 (CST) 16292 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:35:27 -0600 (CST) d OAA27168 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:35:18 GMT Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:35:18 GMT Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: videocad@dircon.co.uk (alan bell) To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Subject: Re: client handbook Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: videocad@popmail.dircon.co.uk (Unverified) X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN >rand gave us an intro to a *client handbook* Good idea, but I think we have to take a slightly different approach. I too have had a situation arising out of an absence of a *contract*, made worse by doing a job as a subcontractor to a friend's company, you know the score, who needs a formal agreement. Answer; we all do ! I think we need to religiously CONFIRM to clients their instructions and/or agreement to quotes, outlines, storyboards, scripts and changes etc. If we don't do it they probably won't bother, and when problems arise we'll be left with our trousers round our ankles ! not good,but we can all make errors of judgement. Have you noticed how nobody commits to print anymore, seems to be the *smart* way to do business... not as far as I'm concerned ! I used to be an architect in a former life (before I got a life ?...), and we used to believe that you signed a contract at the start of a project and filed it away..... only taking it out of the drawer when things went wrong...my how times change. I think the idea of a *handbook* might help to give a client the comfort he needs to actually confirm his acceptance,in writing, his acknowledgement of a *contract* . I tend to give a brief specification for work I do, and attach a set of *terms of business* to all/most quotations, and I think some of the topics you cover could /will be incorporated in future. The problem is that these things work both ways, if we formalize we have to perform, but then we should get paid ! I've pasted in my *conditions*, rather that send you all an attachment !!!! Comments welcomed. TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF BUSINESS GENERALThese terms and conditions shall apply to all trading between us and the customer. Acceptance by us of your order is conditional upon acceptance by you of the following conditions which override all other terms or conditions inconsistent therewith, express , implied or otherwise. No variation of these conditions shall be binding upon us unless otherwise agreed by us in writing. CANCELLATIONContracts and Orders may not be cancelled by the customer other than in writing, any work completed at that time will be charged at the full rate applied to the quotation, or at a rate proportional to the part of the work completed. Charges will be made in full for any equipment hire, deposits or the like which have been incurred by us. ACCEPTANCEOrders are accepted and terms for delivery given conditional on our being able to secure the necessary labour and material and without responsibility for delays arising through causes beyond our control. In the event that the customer is responsible for any part of the work, or is required to provide any information to us, any failure by the client to meet agreed deadlines will modify our ability to meet such delivery dates accordingly and we will advise the customer as soon as it becomes apparent that such delivery dates will be affected. Any consequent charges will be notified to the customer. OWNERSHIPThe ownership of all goods supplied under the contract shall remain ours until we receive payment in full for all the goods delivered to the customer. If payment is overdue in whole or in part we may ( without prejudice to any of our other rights ) recover the goods by entry to the customer's premises for that purpose. COPYRIGHTCopyright in the product remains the property of Visualize unless otherwise agreed in writing. PAYMENTPayment terms may be specified in writing as part of the quotation, acceptance of the quotation will constitute acceptance of the terms of payment applicable to the specific project. In the event that payment terms are not specified for a specific project then payment will be required as indicated in FINAL PAYMENT below. STAGE PAYMENTS(Video-Brochures) Stage payments will be required at various stages during the production of a Video-Brochure, where we are required to place orders or reserve facilities for use in the production. Stage payments may also be necessary where resources are committed to a project over a protracted period. These stage payments will be indicated in our quotation. FINAL PAYMENTFinal payment will be required on handover of the completed project, and on handover of the agreed media copies, unless otherwise agreed in writing. OVERDUE PAYMENTIn the event that the agreed payment terms are not met, interest will be charged at the rate of Bank Base Rate plus 5%. CHANGESIf during the course of the works covered by the contract changes are made by the customer which affect work already completed in part or in full by us we shall notify the customer of any charges in respect of abortive works and additional costs incurred. If during the course of the works additional work is instructed which changes the nature of the contract, or introduces work which is different from that quoted for, we reserve the right to re-quote for the project in part or in whole. Where changes are of a piecemeal nature we reserve the right to charge on a time-charges basis, and will advise the customer of the current rates. VATAll quotations and offer prices are exclusive of Value Added Tax, unless otherwise specified. V.A.T. will be added to all invoices at the rate applying at the appropriate tax point. alan bell.. VISUALIZE..Digital Multimedia ...LINCOLN, England...01522 - 788078 videocad@dircon.co.uk CAD models, anims, desktop video (1958 100/6 BN6)  1,, Summary-line: 24-Feb Ferguson #Article "Tips for Being on TV" Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01483; Mon, 24 Feb 97 22:45:16 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10599; Mon, 24 Feb 97 22:45:14 EST Received: from srv1.ecnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id VAA28278; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:40:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with ESMTP id VAA27625 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:35:17 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id VAA21859 for vidpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21 :32:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from hemisphere.neocomm.net (root@hemisphere.neocomm.net [205.160.234.1]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id VAA21530 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:31:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from Mycomp.neocomm.net (ppp76.neocomm.net [205.160.234.76]) by hemisphere.neocomm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id W AA15289 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:31:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199702250331.WAA15289@hemisphere.neocomm.net> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: "Ferguson" To: "Vidpro-l" Subject: Article "Tips for Being on TV" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN *** EOOH *** idpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net>; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:35:17 -0600 (CST) :32:35 -0600 (CST) id VAA21530 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:31:24 -0600 (CST) AA15289 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:31:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: "Ferguson" To: "Vidpro-l" Subject: Article "Tips for Being on TV" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Had quite a few requests for the article "Tips for being on TV". Can't seem to find the whole thing but I have the 15 tips part that I use. FIFTEEN TIPS FOR THE CEO 1. Take time for excellence. Your time is precious. A good video presentation can save you a lot of time and exponentially increase your presence. Every minute invested in your presentation will pay hundreds of hours of dividends as your video is replayed throughout your organization, often for months. 2. Trust your director. Anyone who has mastered his or her craft well enough to be supervising your presentation has probably excelled as far in his or her trade as you have in yours. Your director has a wide range of skills focused on making you look your best, feeling relaxed, and being focused on your presentation. If the director is your own employee, appreciate the ancient Indian query: "Why is the guru never respected in his home village?" 3. Use first names on the set. Video studios are essentially an informal environment. With rare exceptions, directors and crews will be dressed casually and the command structure may not be apparent. You can fit in and make everybody more relaxed by introducing yourself on a first-name basis and treating the crew with equanimity. 4. Don't be a desk jockey. Ask your producer to think of a meaningful venue than your office. How about (if appropriate) the assembly line at 2 a.m., a dealer's showroom, the word-processing pool. Try to stage the shot so that you can move through it and look like you have a purpose in being there. Video is an audio and visual medium. Use both to maximum communicative advantage. 5. Consider yourself an actor. Good CEO video presentations are more like acting than running a corporation. The best presentations are done by CEO's who have learned (or intuitively follow) good acting techniques. There is no dishonesty in playing a part well. A convincing performance may serve your ends better than the real you. 6. Cite specifics. CEO's, by definition, deal in broad, general issues and strategies. Employess, individual investors, and even some instituitonal viewers often misinterpret CEO's as being vague and disconnected. Try to cite specific and individuals in your company that exemplify your strategies and underscore your awareness of opportunities at all levels. 7. Maintain eye contact. Admittedly, it is very hard to look into a cold, glass lens and pretend you are talking to a friend, much less a few thousand people. Allowing your eyes to wander, however, even for a second, makes you look "shifty-eyed" and creates the disastrous impression that you are not to be trusted. 8. Sit on your coattail. Even the best tailored jacket looks best when pulled tightly down the back, thus avoiding a hump of fabric behind the neck. Stand up, pull your jacket tails down, and sit on them for a razor-sharp shoulder line. 9. Wear the proper colors for television. The color red tends to smear on television, so avoid it. Also avoid any thin stripes, which tend to create annoying moire effects as they interfere with the horizontal lines that compose a TV picture. The best colors to wear are solid blues. The ubiquitous white shirt should also be avoided in favor of a pastel since video is not kind to bright, colorless contrasts. 10. Avoid noisy accessories. Dangling jewelry, beeping wristwatches, a squeaky chair (in fact any chair that swivels) should be avoided. Your normal level of speech will do fine, but don't bring along unwanted competitiion. 11. Never use cue cards. Unless you have perfectly memorized your presentation, determine in advance what script assistance you will use. The best is a computer-generated teleprompter, which allows you to read your script -- in large letters -- directly over the lens so that your eyes maintain perfect contact. Do not, under any circumstances, use cue cards, which will make you look wall-eyed. 12. Tell the crew what you look like. You can save a lot of time on the set by sending a simple description of yourself -- written in the third person -- explaining how you want to be staged. Deliver this to the producer a day or so before the taping. Include a picture if possible. Helpful items to note: height, weight, hair color and/or baldness, eyeglasses (if needed to read the teleprompter), and whether you prefer sitting, standing, or both. 13. Wait for your cue. You'll know the crew is nearly ready when you're asked to "say a few words so we can get a level." This means the sound technician wants to hear how loud you speak so he can set his audio record gear. Take this moment to perform the opening of your presentation, or simply recite your favorite line of Shakespeare. Soon after the sound is set, you will hear the director say "roll tape." Don't take this as your cue to begin. The tape needs a few seconds to attain optimum speed (even longer if they're shooting film). You may hear the technician say "speed"; then the director will give you your cue. It might be "action" or "cue," so wait for his or her signal before you begin. 14. Take advantage of makeup. A sweaty brow, a shiny bald spot, blemishes, bags under the eyes can all disappear under the skillful ministrations of a good makeup and hair person. Welcome this costly luxury--better yet, demand it! 15. Exterminate the butterflies. Lawrence Olivier learned from a Japanese karate teacher how to avoid butterflies in the stomach. Take a deep breath, press the tips of your fingers into your abdomen, just under and following the arch of your ribs where they join at the sternum. Bend over slightly, and count to ten. Straighten up and exhale. This may be the origin of the Japanese form of handshaking. Incidentally, Olivier also allegedly took Valium before live performances. And two more tips specifically for news interview situations: 16. Answer with short sentences. In an interview situation, keep your sentences short and end with a full stop. This is called a good "bite," and allows the video editor maximum flexibility in fitting your statements into the length of the story. Long, rambling statements tend to get left out or --worse--edited into something that may not be what you intended. 17. Don't say "ummm" or "aaah." The tendency of filling in pauses with guttural "frying" sounds creates a terrible impression. This cost at least one Presidential hopeful his party's nomination. Simply substitute silence and pause. The editor will cut the spaces later. -- George Avgerakis Videography November 1994 Whew! Talk about writer's cramp!! All of these don't apply in every shoot but it helps give the talent something to go on besides the "TV adds 20lbs" rumor. I usually highlight the ones that apply in the situation..they can use the the rest for other shoots.  1,, Summary-line: 25-Feb IfNotWhat@aol.com #Re: Digital S VHS Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03210; Tue, 25 Feb 97 04:59:47 EST Received: from srv1.ecn.bgu.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26788; Tue, 25 Feb 97 04:59:46 EST Received: from srv1.ecnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id DAA20468; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:56:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (uxa.ecn.bgu.edu [143.43.32.11]) by srv1.ecn.bgu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.2) with ESMTP id DAA16972 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:30:42 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id DAA28712 for vidpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03 :30:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com (emout20.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.46]) by uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id DAA28704 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:30:43 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id EAA07073 for vidpro-l@ecnet.net; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:30:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <970225043010_1582181709@emout20.mail.aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:30:11 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: IfNotWhat@aol.com To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Subject: Re: Digital S VHS X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN *** EOOH *** idpro-l@srv1.ecnet.net>; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:30:42 -0600 (CST) :30:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:30:11 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Sender: owner-vidpro-l@ecnet.net From: IfNotWhat@aol.com To: vidpro-l@ecnet.net Subject: Re: Digital S VHS X-Ph: V3.12@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN In a message dated 97-02-25 02:39:35 EST, you write: << Has anyone used JVC's Digital S equipment? or even better, has anyone compared Digital S to DVCam or DVCPro in the real world? Jeff Crawford >> We recently hosted a show on Digital-S, with a presentation by Paul Kasperian, the JVC field engineer for the Eastern region. To make a long story short the most overt obvious differences between Digital-S and All the DV formats is that it records twice the data per second (ie 50 megaBITS per second vs 25 megaBITS per second). Digital-S is 4:2:2 sampling vs 4:1:1 on ALL the DV formats. Digital-S uses larger 1/2" cassettes similar in size to VHS. The top end editor, the BR-D85U has pre-read which makes it the most inexpensive ($19K List) machine with this capability. Digital-S has a maximum record time of 104 minutes ( I think, I'm at home and don't have my references) vs 120 minutes on DVCPRO and 180 minutes on DVCAM. The tape stock is metal particle , like DVCPRO vs metal evaporated on DV and DVCAM. On the subjective side, JVC ran a splitscreen comparison between Digital-S, DVCPRO and Digital Betacam. The Digital-S had less mosquito noise in detailed scenes, like trees than does the DV or DVCPRO and was virtually undistinguishable from the Digital-Betacam. The Digital-S machines have analog component inputs and outputs as does many of the DVCPRO's. I'm not sure if DVCAM has those.Very soon JVC will be out with their BR-D40U dockable back for acquisition and you'll probably be hearing more about the format. JVC has currently released a DV dockable back for their KY series cameras which sells in the $3-4K range. Hope this helps. Paul Farren -CTL - Dealer  1, forwarded, answered,, Summary-line: 27-Feb Karen Mueller-Harder #arrival of the new Mueller-Harder! Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09332; Thu, 27 Feb 97 13:10:33 EST Received: from LAUREN.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00582; Thu, 27 Feb 97 13:08:53 EST Received: by lauren.MIT.EDU (5.x/4.7) id AA07724; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:07:55 -0500 Message-Id: <9702271807.AA07724@lauren.MIT.EDU> To: sjm8398@oberlin.edu, thomaso@best.com, atr@sun.com, mitcp@MIT.EDU, underlib@mitvma.mit.edu, ktb1@aol.com, fac@facone.org, lilo.gallagher@fhwa.dot.gov, slonim@lcs.mit.edu, mkeller@wbur.bu.edu, kclarke@tufts.edu, pinewoodsc@aol.com, bfinney@ACS1.BU.EDU, debsmall@MIT.EDU, brose@ctp.com, bjobes@MIT.EDU, 100425.3525@compuserve.com, jwilson@jurika.com, reneec@erols.com, kspiro@ea.xerox.com, hlee@hsph.harvard.edu, susanj@edc.org, ray-schneider@intdata.com, jbeaton@bu.edu, rick@atype.com, davidt@mjr.com, b_cronin@netcad.enet.dec.com, rgtalley@aol.com, aferguson@mecn.mass.edu, susan_ruff@hmco.com, wschultz@tiac.net, cmkrieger@juno.com, v-nick@digitallydo.com, lynn.e.noel@dartmouth.edu, 72633.425@compuserve.com, mseim@ramsey.lib.mn.us, 71231.2526@compuserve.com, btomczak@sover.net, skevra@frital.umass.edu, ffoulkes@slip.net, rdv@individual.com, kristinh@hubdata.com, mdmendyke@tasc.com, bjaspan@MIT.EDU, alida@umassmed.ummed.edu, mattski@MIT.EDU, shearj@bcvms.bc.edu, cjsmith@MIT.EDU, opus@ipnh.mv.com, awhiteside@mars.gsd.harvard.edu, dosmith@uclink.berkeley.edu, cpowell@aao.ccmail.compuserve.com, westland@sfsu.edu, wfm@nywork2.undp.org, eakmons@aol.com, jlm4@acpub.duke.edu, kapowell@gallua.gallaudet.edu, rasauer@dash.com, chloe@hsph.harvard.edu, jpekar@relay.nswc.navy.mil, bbova@mitppl.mit.edu, carocci@wi.mit.edu, jpost@lynx.dac.neu.edu, gesmith@lynx.dac.neu.edu, weiner@wi.mit.edu, higbie@husc.harvard.edu, lfeltner@MIT.EDU, karchev@ntmtv.com To: rosie@aol.com Subject: arrival of the new Mueller-Harder! Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:07:54 EST From: Karen Mueller-Harder *** EOOH *** To: sjm8398@oberlin.edu, thomaso@best.com, atr@sun.com, mitcp@MIT.EDU, underlib@mitvma.mit.edu, ktb1@aol.com, fac@facone.org, lilo.gallagher@fhwa.dot.gov, slonim@lcs.mit.edu, mkeller@wbur.bu.edu, kclarke@tufts.edu, pinewoodsc@aol.com, bfinney@ACS1.BU.EDU, debsmall@MIT.EDU, brose@ctp.com, bjobes@MIT.EDU, 100425.3525@compuserve.com, jwilson@jurika.com, reneec@erols.com, kspiro@ea.xerox.com, hlee@hsph.harvard.edu, susanj@edc.org, ray-schneider@intdata.com, jbeaton@bu.edu, rick@atype.com, davidt@mjr.com, b_cronin@netcad.enet.dec.com, rgtalley@aol.com, aferguson@mecn.mass.edu, susan_ruff@hmco.com, wschultz@tiac.net, cmkrieger@juno.com, v-nick@digitallydo.com, lynn.e.noel@dartmouth.edu, 72633.425@compuserve.com, mseim@ramsey.lib.mn.us, 71231.2526@compuserve.com, btomczak@sover.net, skevra@frital.umass.edu, ffoulkes@slip.net, rdv@individual.com, kristinh@hubdata.com, mdmendyke@tasc.com, bjaspan@MIT.EDU, alida@umassmed.ummed.edu, mattski@MIT.EDU, shearj@bcvms.bc.edu, cjsmith@MIT.EDU, opus@ipnh.mv.com, awhiteside@mars.gsd.harvard.edu, dosmith@uclink.berkeley.edu, cpowell@aao.ccmail.compuserve.com, westland@sfsu.edu, wfm@nywork2.undp.org, eakmons@aol.com, jlm4@acpub.duke.edu, kapowell@gallua.gallaudet.edu, rasauer@dash.com, chloe@hsph.harvard.edu, jpekar@relay.nswc.navy.mil, bbova@mitppl.mit.edu, carocci@wi.mit.edu, jpost@lynx.dac.neu.edu, gesmith@lynx.dac.neu.edu, weiner@wi.mit.edu, higbie@husc.harvard.edu, lfeltner@MIT.EDU, karchev@ntmtv.com To: rosie@aol.com Subject: arrival of the new Mueller-Harder! Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:07:54 EST From: Karen Mueller-Harder Timothy William Mueller-Harder arrived on Tuesday, February 25th at 6:12 p.m., and is very beautiful and wonderful! He is fairly unflappable and curious, and likes to squeal. He has lots of hair, and was 8 lbs. 4 oz. and 20 in. on arrival. We all came home yesterday, and are getting a little caught up on sleep, after 3-4 hours total over the previous 2 nights! Everyone is doing well, though Erik and Karen are still a little amazed about the whole thing.  1,, Summary-line: 5-Mar John Ferrick #Re: Maybe DVCAM Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17834; Wed, 5 Mar 97 05:47:30 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08673; Wed, 5 Mar 97 05:47:29 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id EAA42451; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 04:44:04 -0600 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 04:44:04 -0600 Message-Id: <331DBF89.C1F@bibliotech.co.uk> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: j.ferrick@bibliotech.co.uk (John Ferrick) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Maybe DVCAM X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 04:44:04 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: j.ferrick@bibliotech.co.uk (John Ferrick) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Maybe DVCAM X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals Kathleen.Stuart wrote: > > We test drove the DSR 200, DVCAM (Sony) this past weekend, am happy to report > that the camera handled nicely. The image stabilizer was for real (not kinda > hokey like the EZ1), no problems with the audio even when we ran off of AC and > plugged a wireless receiver directly into it. Offers a variety of audio & > video inputs & outputs. The little 10x optical lens was fine, the digital 20 > was certainly acceptable as well. Didn't actually do the scope thing, but > transferred the footage (analog) to a 3/4" format, to a another 3/4" and back > down to standard VHS and it held up ok. NOT broadcast quality (but we're not > looking for that just yet, we're hoping to use it for event recording, talking > heads, etc) but even the third generation dub (from the 3/4) looked better > than an S-VHS or hi8 transferred in the same manner. Why do so many weird > transfers to test? Because if we ever did want to edit it on our analog 3/4" > edit system, that's what we'd have to do, and suspecting that for you other > unfortunates out there who haven't the $$$ yet to go non-linear, that this is > what you're forced to do as well. > > We realize that purchasing this camera will eventually require a source > machine as well, (to the tune of about $5 grand I'm guessing) and so we are > getting deeper into the committment, but Sony says their machines will play > back the consumer DV format as well, so here's hoping they are telling the > truth. > > It may turn out to be the hi8 of the 90's, but it certainly looks better than > hi8 ever did, For about $6,500, it's a great little camera, half way to pro, > better audio, better lens, longer record length than Panasonic EZ1 > and I think, nicer pictures. > > But just when I feel were ready to purchase, someone else reccomends JVC's > digital-S, sooo, how long before the cameras (dockable or one piece) are on > the market? > > Kathleen Stuart, IMC at MSU My $.02: Sony is making a big deal about DVcam. If you are doing tape based editing then the track width increase helps, and the fact that the audio is locked to the video is nice. Here in london I yet to be able to get Sony to be able to play a DV tape on DVCAM 85 edit recorder without excessive blocking. The xlr's do not have phantom power, the build in colorbar generator seems to be missing. Many of the folks here are sticking with the Vx1000 of now since everyones DV is the compatible but the DV DVCAM DVCpro are not (PAL has a few oddities DV is 4:2:0 DCVam 4:2:0 but DVCPro is 4:1:1 like NTSC) If you need to use the composit or y/c output of the sony products it is not that great, If you were to play the tapes on a Pana DVCPro deck with yuv out it is up to betacam quality. The Larger casettes are a mixed Blessing, and the DVcam and DVCpro cannot create a DV format tape. Pana is about to release a DVCpro Consumer (around the same price) but with firewire and changable lens. digital S uses two of the DV codecs in parallel, (same as the new DVCPro high speed) with full 4:2:2 and the camera is supposed to be able to be fitted with a DV back. Digital-S really gives DigiBeta a run for its money Regards John  1,, Summary-line: 7-Mar Steve Yankee #Re: "Great saves" stories...when cameras matter more than life! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08079; Fri, 7 Mar 97 13:58:53 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17966; Fri, 7 Mar 97 13:58:43 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id MAA16844; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:54:02 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:54:02 -0600 Message-Id: Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: Steve Yankee To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: "Great saves" stories...when cameras matter more than life! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:54:02 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: Steve Yankee To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: "Great saves" stories...when cameras matter more than life! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals Although it didn't happen to me personally, it happened to my favorite key grip, Tom Henry...while working on a TVM in beautiful southeast Michigan, Tom had to climb into a truck to put away the 35mm Panasonic for the day. He unfortunately chose to use apple boxes as his stepladder and, sure enough, the bottom one slipped out, making him --well, for a moment, anyway --sans anchor to earth. Gravity did its trick, Tom slammed his head on the bumper on the way down, and was knocked out cold. They had to pry the 'Pana out of his hands before reviving him, and later the cast and crew presented him with an award for "Most Dedicated Key Grip" at the wrap party. Steve STEVE YANKEE COMMUNICATIONS Scriptwriter/EditorExtraordinaire! Call for samples/rates: 616-844-6783 or email syankee@springlakemi.com  1,, Summary-line: 9-Mar Philip Hodgetts #The Non-linear Connundrum Some thoughts - long Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12202; Sun, 9 Mar 97 03:41:34 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21955; Sun, 9 Mar 97 03:41:32 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id CAA44878; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 02:38:24 -0600 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 02:38:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199703090838.TAA15186@oznet07.ozemail.com.au> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: philipmh@charisma.com.au (Philip Hodgetts) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Non-linear Connundrum Some thoughts - long X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 02:38:24 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: philipmh@charisma.com.au (Philip Hodgetts) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Non-linear Connundrum Some thoughts - long X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals Connie Terwilliger and other have raised some very interesting issues under this subject line. While it's a it of a special interest area of mine, I delayed responding until I had sufficient time to absorb the postings and formulate a thoughtful response. *Warning* These are the ruminations of one person only. They are part of an onging development of some serious thinking about where this industry is going and, in keeping with my sig line, I absolutely reserve the right to have someone point out an alternative way of thinking that makes sense, and I thus change my opinion. ;-) So, in keeping with the spirit of sharing dialogue I submit this bit of my (current) thinking. No statement of mine should ever be taken as written in stone, or to be comprehensive - it is probably safe to assume I mean 'in general' if I make a statement like "NLE is ...." even if I don't specifically write, 'in general'. As I understand it, the original questions that Connie raised, echoed by others, relate to the relative unfamiliarity with Non-linear technologies and what specific suites have to offer. Tim Gunkel added "in general, you should hire the editor, not the edit system. There are some exceptions to this rule,..but for most work, the skill of the editor is paramount." For the purposes of this discussion, I want to define an editor as a creative position, not a technical one. This is Tim's definition (or my understanding of it) and I think it is fundamental to this discussion. In the recent past, and present, high end linear suites needed a technician to operate them - ie an 'on-line editor' was/is primarily a technical one as all the creative decisions have generally been made in the 'off-line' suite. (Not to say that on-line editors don't make a contribution creatively, but primarily it's a technical position.) In the current issue of Iris Universe (Silicon Graphics mag) there is a reference to bringing control closer to the creators (creatives). In many ways I think that is the direction that NLE is moving the industry into. But crucial to the discussion are the fundamental differences between linear and non-linear editing - or more specifically between hardware based and software based solutions. Linear edit suites are hardware based solutions. NLE editing is a software based solution. (Linear edit suites involve a lot of software and NLE suites a lot of hardware but it is the focus that is crucial.) In a hardware based solution, if the button wasn't there, you had a problem. (whatever you wanted the button to do) and had to find a box that had that button. Effects were processed by specialised, dedicated hardware with a limited number of choices (sometimes a wide limit, but finite none the less). There are NLE systems that conform to this model as well - Postbox & Draco are almost totally closed systems and if the function you want isn't there, then that's it. Dvision and Avid are more open, and Premiere and M100 based solutions are very open. By open I mean open to other software, so if the function is not in the primary interface, it's available somewhere else. We've all done this sort of thing in finding ways to create an effect that wasn't part of our system specification. With non-linear it's not a 'work around' but part of the 'way of working'. So the two ways of working are more two ways of thinking. And the problem is compounded when we think about how we have learnt the systems to this time - since the first videotape editing system arrived based on selective copying the changes up to this point have been incremental - every previous bit of knowledge was useful and the new just added on. I'm not so sure that applies with NLE - being a teacher of NLE systems, I find that the more linear experience an editor has, the harder the changeover is! (And I really don't envy people like Mark Suszko who swap back and forward between linear and non-linear). Very few of the 'editing skills' (the technical skills) are directly relevant although the creative skills certainly are. Thus creating a much steeper learning curve than say, a new DVE or edit controller. With any NLE system, the process is quite different than a linear process and some parts are faster while others seem to slow down. And as has been pointed out, not all systems are the same. One solution is simply to learn what *models* have which capabilities as we have in the past (not all Betacams are the same, are they - BVW, PVW, UVW will all give different results in quality and way of working! (why can't I record 4 audio channels, it's a betacam isn't it? Yes, but it's a UVW...) With an open system there are no creative constraints. If you can imagine it, it can be done with some combination of software. The problem arises of having too much choice. It's relatively easy to choose between 150 styles of wipe, but what if you can have any wipe you can conceive, how would you like it to look? How could you use 64,000 channels of DVE? How would you like the pictures to look? etc Looking across at DTP, pre desktop, there were realtively few people who had access to high quality output and it was terribly limited by the available technology. Now, not only does almost everyone have access to high quality colour work and output the 'look' has changed. Once more people have access to the technology they start to drive it in new directions (there's no 'right look' anymore) which drives the software developers into new directions and so on. So, the answer to the connundrum? It's not only the video industry, but virtually every industry is undergoing constant change and it is only those people who make a committment to life long learning that will manage to keep on top of the changes. It's incredibly difficult to 'fit in' but it's my opinion (and practice) that about 20% of our total work time has to be spent on on-going learning. If your employer won't pay for it then it's incumbent on the individual to do it on their own expese. (And then take the skills to a more enlightened employer). Which is where I probably diverge from Mark Suszko in his post of 3 March and say there were at least 2 other, digital, insystem options depending on what software (not hardware) he had access to. I'm not sure trying to impose linear paradigms on non-linear editing is the most helpful direction (but when swapping between, difficult not to do). The questions to ask: what model of what manufacturer? And you'll have to learn for yourself what those interface options mean. how much storage space at what compression levels. Can the system mix compressions in the program (different subject matter needs different compression and substantial space savings can be had if they can be mixed) what effects are real time preview, real time finished and what rendering time do the others take (massive variations in that) and decide how important real time is. (For me, I figure I generally spend less time waiting for rendering than for pre-rolling & shuttling tapes! My pet, linear peeve.) what other software is available and what can it do? I think there needs to be some mental distinction between editing 'effects' and other effects. Editing effects are transitions, done by the editing software and within the edit. My linear paradigm would be, you don't expect every edit system to be a Harry suite! NLE suites will suite those, as GBrennan hinted at, that are organised and know the looks and feel they want before they move into the edit suite. But ultimately it will be experience of the tools that determines how easily the job is done. FWIW, in the two years we've been working with a M100 (nubus then PCI Vincent and now with v3 software) there hasn't been a job that I wouldn't have said was done twice as fast overall (taking into account digitizing time) as I would have allocated in a linear suite. In general we end up spending the same time and making a much more complex program. Remember, we're comparing the skill at the tools of around 2-3 years maximum in NLE with 10-15 years experience in a linear suite with incremental changes. Adn the technology has a long way to go yet. Putting on my prophet hat (unsafe place to be) I feel we haven't even seen the start of the implications of NLE - to quote Charles A Poynton in the opening to chapter 2 of 'A technical introduction to Digital Video' (dry, very dry) "Video engineering was once a highly specialized domain. But the application of digital technology in diverse fields now means that video can be considered as a subset of the larger class of digital imaging: Video involves raster image data in time sequence" or in my words "Video's nothing special, just another type of digital data!" We're not there yet, but that could be where we're headed. And add the implications of DVD (high quality video with interactivity) wider issues of interactivity and broader, more specialised outlets and we've got.... (A lot more nights spent learning instead of doing?) Are we ready for the implications of programs that configure themselves to the viewer based on other data? In closing I'd like to repost some bits from Tim Gunkel: In the end, I want a system that flies in the hands of a good editor. I want marking, trimming, transitioning and all the other routine editing chores to go as fast as (or faster) than in the linear suite. And I want the benefits of random access to my source material, offering further speed benefits. The end result is that people who really have no interest in the nuts-and-bolts technical side of the business have to learn more than they (perhaps) wanted to in order to get the job done right. In the future, I suspect that there will be more standardization...but NLE is still an emerging technology, and it's going to be a wild ride for a while. Thank you for your time and I'd love your feedback. Philip Hodgetts philipmh@charisma.com.au Dynamic Media Evangelist & Educator Chief Designer, Dynamic Media, Charisma Digital Pty Ltd Above all, I reserve the right to be wrong.  1,, Summary-line: 10-Mar A1Burokas@aol.com #My Matthews Studio Equipment service hero(s). Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12372; Mon, 10 Mar 97 15:40:23 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07695; Mon, 10 Mar 97 15:40:12 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA34816; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:37:12 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:37:12 -0600 Message-Id: <970310153739_-869694534@emout20.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: A1Burokas@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: My Matthews Studio Equipment service hero(s). X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:37:12 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: A1Burokas@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: My Matthews Studio Equipment service hero(s). X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals I have an older ITE tripod that I bought as a package used (really used) deal with a camera and a few useless batteries. The camera was damaged with water on my Alaska shoot and, basically, the tripod is all I have from that original package. I was shooting in the showy woods when I lost one of the pins that attaches the mid-spreader to the leg. Well, without this pin, the leg can rotate beyond flat. In the fast-paced event video field (I shoot weddings, etc, on weekends) there isn't time to "make due" if the paperclip/velcro fastener I jury-rigged breaks apart during a shoot. So I called Matthews Studio Equipment, who handles this old set of stix. I spoke to Bob Larocco in the service department and he faxed me a complete parts diagram for my tripod- within minutes. I needed a knob, spring and bolt. They could all fit together in a thimble. The price for all my parts came to a whopping $7.80. Rather than make me incur the basic shipping charges (which could be greater than the cost of the parts) Bob suggested that he might be able to put them in the envelope with the current catalog that I also wanted. I write a check and, in just over a week, and one day shy of when I needed the part, I received the packet, the parts and my check with a note. Since my order was so far under the $100 minimum order, and probably more than the cost of all the paperwork requied to handle the order, they shipped them free. (Terri Elwood- sales) My current tripod does the job I need it to. And it's very sturdy- built to last. But, when I need a new tripod, I'll be sure to look to the company that supports their products so quickly and heartily. Most especially, because they respect the customer, as you can see by how I was treated with this one order. They could have insisted on minimum order and shipping charges, in two different departments, but they didn't. Needless to say, the ST-50M tripod/head setup certainly has my eye now. And the prices are a good deal lower than Schlater, Vinten, etc... So, for the hundreds of vidpro list members out there, here's more than $7.50 worth of advertising for Matthews, who can be reached at 1-800-CE-STAND (818-843-6715 for overseas listmembers.) Be sure to tell Terri that I recommended them. Their current catalog, including a pneumatic pedestal system, is free. It's also one of the easies to understand tripod catalogs I've ever looked at. Anthony ___________ Anthony Burokas, Media Technician IEBA Productions, Inc., Philadelphia, PA + Solid video production complete with in-house NL editing. + Wilderness Adventures Off The Beaten Path... + Commercial of the Week page... Go to: ieba.com  1,, Summary-line: 10-Mar Lyle Sollway #Re: The Trade Press Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28600; Mon, 10 Mar 97 22:23:42 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26907; Mon, 10 Mar 97 22:23:35 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id VAA29972; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:17:11 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:17:11 -0600 Message-Id: Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: Lyle Sollway To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Trade Press X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:17:11 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: Lyle Sollway To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Trade Press X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals > From time to time on this list, people ask what magazines are available and >how to get in contact with them. Some are free of charge to "the trade", > some are costly. Just like life, I guess..... > >Here ya go.... More: Video & Multimedia Producer 701 Westchester Ave.,White Plains New York, 10604 Television Broadcast 460 Park Avenue South New York, 10016 Government Video 460 Park Avenue South New York, 10016 Regards Lyle > > >American Cinematographer >1782 North Orange Drive >Hollywood CA 90028 >213 969 4333 > >Boston Shoot >c/o CYNC >1482 Beacon Street >Brookline MA 02146 >617 277 4317 > >Interactive Age >600 Community Drive >Manhasset NY 11030 >516 562 7743 > >Lighting Design + Application >120 Wall Street 17th Floor >New York NY 10005 >212 248 5000 > >Millimeter >826 Broadway >New York NY 10003 >212 477 4700 > >New England AdWeek >100 Boylston Street >Boston MA 02116 >617 482 0876 > >New England Entertainment Digest >P.O. Box 88 >Burlington MA 01803 >617 272 2066 > >Point Of View (Covers New England) >P.O. Box 102 >Bridgton ME 04009 >207 647 2552 > >POST >25 Willowdale Avenue >Port Washington NY 11050 >516 767 2500 > >Producer >25 Willowdale Avenue >Port Washington NY 10050 >516 767 2500 > >Screen The Chicago > Production Weekly >720 N. Wabash Avenue >Chicago IL 60611 > >Shoot >1515 Broadway 12th Floor >New York NY 10036 >212 764 7300 > >The Hollywood Reporter >5055 Wilshire Boulevard >Los Angeles CA 90036 >213 525 2000 > >Videography >460 Park Avenue South 9th Floor >New York NY 10016 >212 378 0400 > > >There're quite a few more. >Maybe somebody(s) will add to this list.... > >bb >s1  1, answered,, Summary-line: 11-Mar Jaroslav Jedlinsky #RE: Hello Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03908; Tue, 11 Mar 97 04:52:30 EST Received: from [192.108.160.9] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03362; Tue, 11 Mar 97 04:52:27 EST Received: from cs.felk.cvut.cz (cs.felk.cvut.cz [192.108.160.1]) by ns.felk.cvut.cz (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA19949 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:51:40 +0100 (MET) Received: by cs.felk.cvut.cz (MX V4.2 AXP) id 158; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:51:39 MET Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:51:39 MET From: Jaroslav Jedlinsky To: opus@MIT.EDU Message-Id: <009B1192.A94CFB5D.158@cs.felk.cvut.cz> Subject: RE: Hello *** EOOH *** us@MIT.EDU>; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:51:40 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:51:39 MET From: Jaroslav Jedlinsky To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: RE: Hello >My name is David Jedlinsky. My father, Dennis Jedlinsky, was given an >email message from you, and he asked me to respond, because he does >not have email. > >It is possible that we are related. My family left the Czech republic >about the year 1890. The family lived in a town named Kunwald. Do >you know this place? I have a list of relations; perhaps this would >be good to send to you. > >Your English is very good. I cannot speak Czech. > >-David Jedlinsky >opus@mit.edu Hello, It's very possible that we are related, because I know Kunvald. It's about 50 kms from Vamberk where I live. I must ask about it my parents. They always said that our family comes from Kunvald. I have access to Internet only from scholl (the Czech Technical University in Prague), so I will send you my message next week. Please send me you list of relations if you can. Jaroslav Jedlinsky  1,, Summary-line: 12-Mar David C. Jedlinsky #Re: Hello Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16703; Wed, 12 Mar 97 00:07:42 EST Received: from MILO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18224; Wed, 12 Mar 97 00:07:41 EST Received: by milo.mit.edu (NX5.67d/4.7) id AA02583; Wed, 12 Mar 97 00:07:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 00:07:39 -0500 Message-Id: <9703120507.AA02583@milo.mit.edu> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Jaroslav Jedlinsky In-Reply-To: Jaroslav Jedlinsky's message of Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:51:39 MET Subject: Re: Hello *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 00:07:39 -0500 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Jaroslav Jedlinsky In-Reply-To: Jaroslav Jedlinsky's message of Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:51:39 MET Subject: Re: Hello Hello. I have a large list of relations, here is only some of it. Do you have a PC? There is a program here called Family Tree Maker, I can send you the entire list for this program. Here is my list from Kunvald to me. Vaclav 1860-1943 | Joseph 1889-1933 | Richard 1922-1990 | Dennis 1944- | David (me) 1967- There are other children of Vaclav: Vaclav 1885-1948 Rusena Madonskova 1921- Rudolf 1927- Jaroslav 1887-1942 Norman Mildred Rita Earl Norma Frances 1891-1970 (Adolf Michalicka) Frank 1892-1952 Bohumil 1896-1953 Rudolf 1900-1915 Marie 1903-1981 Valentine 1904-1904 Perhaps these names will help? I have more information, and I would like to know more about your family. -David Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1,, Summary-line: 16-Mar Rand Flory #Video Production Handbook Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16134; Sun, 16 Mar 97 22:40:02 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29830; Sun, 16 Mar 97 22:39:50 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id VAA20956; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:32:03 -0600 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:32:03 -0600 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970317032728.0067f0bc@wyoming.com> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: ranflory@wyoming.com (Rand Flory) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Video Production Handbook X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:32:03 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: ranflory@wyoming.com (Rand Flory) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Video Production Handbook X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals The Video Production Handbook Congratulations! If you receive this handbook, you are thinking about joining the successful world of television advertising. You have become one of the elite in who has chosen to use the most widely accepted advertising media of the twentieth century: the television commercial. We welcome you heartily and hope your experience is positive in all aspects. You will find television production to be exciting and probably everything you have always thought it would be. Our staff of production specialists will guide you through every aspect of the production in an attempt to deliver the exact message you want your audience to hear. You need to know nothing about production to make it work. That is our job. We will bring the equipment and the knowledge to you to make you and your business look good. Our desire is for you to be able to show the world just who you are and what you have to offer. Since we want the production to go smoothly and without surprises, we need to bring up some points at the outset so we can keep the misunderstandings to an absolute minimum. You should read this handbook carefully so that you will know what to expect from us and what we expect from you. We want your video experience to be a rewarding experience. Copyrights Have you heard a really great song that would just fit the mood of the commercial that you would like to make? Would you like us to add some pictures over that song to give your audience just the right message? We would really like to do this for you, but unfortunately, doing this is illegal! That song is almost assuredly copyright protected. That means that someone owns the song and all the rights to use it. To use a copyrighted song, portion of a TV show or movie, or practically anything that someone else produced, we must obtain permission from the copyright holder. Usually, the owner of the copyright will not even consider allowing the use of their work in a commercial. If they do grant permission, it will probably cost in the tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege. Everything we use must be original unless we have permission of the copyright owner. We do have an extensive library of music and graphics available which are royalty-free. It may not be as well known, but much of it is catchy and we can probably find something that is almost as good. Perhaps it will even be better. On-Scene Time Unless we make other arrangements, we cannot spend more than two hours on-scene at your location. Most of this time will be spent assessing the area, setting up lights, arranging the camera, rehearsing the talent, testing the microphones and such likes. The actual shooting time will probably be less than half an hour and perhaps no more than ten minutes. Still, it will probably take that long to get a thirty-second commercial. In most circumstances we will be planning to shoot only one exterior shot and perhaps two to four interior shots. We will work from a script or shooting outline that you have approved before we arrive. While we can make some minor changes during the shoot, it is not a good idea to make extensive changes. If the person on the scene is not the person authorized to make changes, we will just go by the script. Finally, if you make changes while we are on-scene and it causes us to work over the two-hour limit, we will bill you at the rate of $100 per hour, or any portion thereof. We cannot release your commercial until you have paid this in full. As you can see, having the script well worked out before our arrival is the best. This will ensure that the shoot finishes on time. Talent Everybody seen in your commercial is considered talent. Notice that we said "talent" and not talented. Talent is a term that we use for anyone who has their voice or image recorded. We make this distinction because we must compensate everyone who is considered talent. In addition, all talent will have to sign a contract allowing us to use their image and/or voice for commercial purposes. While we will bring along many blank contracts for this purpose, please understand that we must pay everyone something, even if it is only a dollar. In fact, a dollar is our standard payment for untrained talent. The way this will work is that we will have all these folks sign a contract for their services, and we will pay them $1 each. We will then ask you to reimburse us for this expense. So if you want to have anyone in your commercial, please be ready with the extra money for your "talented" friends, staff, or just onlookers who appear on a screen. Note that we cannot turn over your finished video until you reimburse us for this expense. Why do we do this? It is just protection in case someone does not like how they look on TV, in case someone feels they were worth more than we paid them, or in case someone just changes their mind about their appearance on television for any reason. The contract will explain that they are doing a job for us and we are compensating them for that job. By doing this, we actually own their image and/or voice for this purpose. The contract just saves problems down the line. Of course, if your staff member suddenly finds herself exceedingly popular, she may not agree to work so cheaply the next time. However, that is just one of the breaks of show business . . . One last thing about talent contracts. Minors must have permission of their parents or guardians to appear in commercials. That means the parent or guardian must sign the contract for them. If you have minors you would like to use as talent, please let us know in advance so we can arrange to have the written authorization completed before the time we get to your location to shoot the commercial. To save some embarrassment, you may want to have discussed the video shoot with your selected talent before they are to go in front of the camera. Sometimes people are unexpectedly shy and do not wish to be recorded on video tape. Having this worked out before we get there is the best policy. Clothing Certain types of clothing should not be worn for television work. Pure white shirts, blouses, etc. will dazzle the camera and make the rest of the picture look washed out. Likewise, pure blacks and navy material will lose its definition and just look like a black blot on the screen. Herringbone patterns in jackets and the like will cause a moire pattern on the screen and look like little rainbows. Small check patterns may also do this. You will also want to avoid shiny jewelry. Other things that you will want to avoid would include watches that beep every hour, pagers that may go off in the middle of a shoot, or cell phones that may ring while the commercial is being shot. Have a mirror around or have someone check you out just before you go in front of the camera to ensure that you have combed your hair, you have zipped your fly, and that you are otherwise presentable for your adoring public. Voice When you speak into the camera, you will be hooked up with a microphone (or "mic" for short). Whether it is a hand-held mic, a small clip-on mic or even the microphone on the camera, you will want to speak in a normal tone of voice. Before we begin, we will want you to say a few words to figure out the audio level for the recording session. You will want to say this in the same voice that you plan use during the actual shooting so we can set level appropriately. When you speak, you will want to speak clearly and distinctly. If you mumble, the audience may not understand you. You may want to practice speaking in front of family or friends for a while to ensure they can easily understand your words. Hands Deciding what to do with your hands is always difficult. You DO want to use your hands to help you communicate. Use them to make a point while you speak. However, DO NOT use them to express anxiety. Try to avoid things like rubbing your palms, picking your fingers, and other such nervous, fidgety movements. This draws the viewer's attention away from the important message you are trying deliver. Site Survey You will want to help us make your shoot go smoothly by ensuring sufficient electrical outlets will be available to power the lights that we bring. We will need at least two separate circuits with 15-amp circuit breakers on each circuit. Please call us if you have a problem. You should also survey the area that you want us to work to ensure enough room to set up a camera at least six feet from the subject you wish to photograph. Finally, listen to the sounds generated in your work area. Our microphones do a good job of picking up the human voice over the background noise, but they are not perfect. Try to find the source of extraneous sounds (that is, noise) and determine what you can do to reduce them. This will help make you sound much better on the air. Of course, we will help you with all this when we arrive, but it all takes time. That means less time on your production. We want to give your shoot as much attention as we can, so if you can do some of this for us ahead of time, it will be worth it in the end. What We Give is What You Get As we talked about above in the section on On-Scene Time (p.2), we work from a script or shooting outline. When we pack up and go home, we take the raw video tape and the script and spend much time editing it into its final form: the actual commercial. Although we would like to spend more time with you at this stage, this is not possible in a low-budget offering. We will of course correct our errors at our expense, but basically: when it is done, it is done. If you watch the commercial and come up with things that could have been done to make it better, let us know. We will try to incorporate those ideas into your next commercial. Extra Goodies For the basic price, you get a basic production. We're sure you are pleased with what you get, but you may want a more extensive production. We do have more equipment and facilities available if you want more than just the basics. We also have access to talented local actors, actresses, musicians, professional voices, writers, makeup artists and other creative people. We are also able to provide you with simple computer graphics and animation. These extras cost more of course, but if you want to make an impact, these things may be well worth it. We can help you do much more than merely deliver a message. We would like to create an image of you and your business that will deliver an unforgettable impact to the television community. If you want a more artistic production, give us a call at 555-1234 and we will discuss our higher levels of production with you at length. Prices start at $X00 for more elegant 30-second commercials, and could climb to over $XX,000 for a multi-camera staged 30-minute infomercial. On our more extensive productions, our pricing is completely separate from any production credits that you may receive as part of an advertising incentive. We will expect one-third of the total price before we begin the actual scripting, another third when we finish the production, and the final third when the editing is done to your satisfaction. Although many folks will be satisfied with the basic production that we offer, we do have the facilities and the abilities to give you a level of production that will meet any demands that you require. Again, congratulations for considering television advertising as an investment in your future.  1, answered,, Summary-line: 18-Mar Jaroslav Jedlinsky #RE: Jedlinsky family tree Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21600; Tue, 18 Mar 97 05:56:04 EST Received: from [192.108.160.9] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11237; Tue, 18 Mar 97 05:56:02 EST Received: from cs.felk.cvut.cz (cs.felk.cvut.cz [192.108.160.1]) by ns.felk.cvut.cz (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA26047 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:56:00 +0100 (MET) Received: by cs.felk.cvut.cz (MX V4.2 AXP) id 468; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:55:58 MET Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:55:58 MET From: Jaroslav Jedlinsky To: opus@MIT.EDU Message-Id: <009B171B.CE8E43E4.468@cs.felk.cvut.cz> Subject: RE: Jedlinsky family tree *** EOOH *** us@MIT.EDU>; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:56:00 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:55:58 MET From: Jaroslav Jedlinsky To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: RE: Jedlinsky family tree >I do not know the best way to send you the file. I have the original >file, called jedlinsky.FTW, and it is 514,048 bytes. This file only >works in Family Tree Maker, by Broderbund Software. I made a much >smaller file, called jedlinsky.GED, and it is 57,171 bytes. This file >is a GEDCOM file, which works in many different programs. Which one >do you want, and how can I send it to you? > >I can send you a disk in the post, if it is not possible to use email. > >David Jedlinsky > Hello, There is a problem. I thought I have Family Tree Maker, but I haven't. I have Family Matter and other software from Simtel and Simtelnet, all shareware or freeware. I don't know if I can use .GED. You can try to send me this file by email. .FTW is very large for sending by email. You asked me about our family. It will be a small English homework for me. I have learned English about seven years, but my English still isn't good. Maybe I'm very lazy to study. I have two sisters. First is married, her name is Dana Mihulkova, she's 24 and lives in Rychnov nad Kneznou, about six kms north from Vamberk. She is teacher of German language at grammar school. Irena is 17 and studies at secondary school. My mother works at home. She makes bobbin lace. My father works in the facory ESAB Vamberk as welder. His main hobby is bee-keeping. We have house with garden and small field. We live in a small village near Vamberk called Merklovice. I don't know if know something about Vamberk. Vamberk is about 150 kms east from Prague, about 6000 people. For more details you can try my homepage at http://cs.felk.cvut.cz/~xjedlins/. My homepage is not very good, because I haven't time for it. I talked about your family with my parents, they said our family comes from Kunvald like you, but now we can't find somebody between your and our pedigree. We have friends (also Jedlinsky family) in Ceske Budejovice, they are from Kunvald. In their pedigree are people which emigrated to Viena, Also there is some Vaclav Jedlinsky, but there is no his birthday. I need (if you have) numbers of houses where your ?ancestors? lived. I saw very often number 51, I think. At the end something about me (I don't know what you already know). I'm twenty, I study at the Czech Technical University in Prague, faculty of electri cal engeneering, second year of study. So my hobbies are computers, electro nics, Internet etc. Please send me something about you, your family, where do you live etc. Jaroslav Jedlinsky  1,, Summary-line: 21-Mar MoovyMagic@aol.com #Film, video, and Zen. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26422; Fri, 21 Mar 97 09:26:17 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20969; Fri, 21 Mar 97 09:25:57 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id IAA08193; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:21:37 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:21:37 -0600 Message-Id: <970321092051_1285062308@emout15.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Film, video, and Zen. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:21:37 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: MoovyMagic@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Film, video, and Zen. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals In a message dated 97-03-20 13:05:07 EST, you write: << the actual spot however, was probably shot on 35mm, which has about a gazillion times the resolution that video has, filters and lens selection nonwithstanding. Think about range...video can look at black & white in the same frame and give you MAYBE 4 stops between the two before the white is blown out and the black is crushed. Film, on the other hand, can give you 7-8 stops...hell, with the new vision series from the yellow father, you have just about the entire lens to play with, again, without blowing the whites or crushing the blacks. verstain? Mike >> I love to un-can this particular tangle of worms.... It's always great fun.... So, once more into the fray! Yes, BUT: The lovely film is then projected onto a video chip or tube target inside the film-chain device to get the images into TV-world, Right? Right. So that target then makes a tape (in the highly simplified thought-experiment we're doing here) , and that tape is then played on a TV CRT tube. Right? Right. So THAT camera tube magically has a 4,000 stop range? While the poor peasant chips and tubes in regular old nasty TV cameras have their mere 3 stop range? What makes these cine chain cameras so special? Why can't we just put one 'o them in a box, and go forth shooting super-fine 4,000 stop video in a shoulder box? Here's why: The film itself acts as the contrast-ratio compressor. A curve of "response" versus light intensity input will reveal that the film will show shadow detail at much lower dark-object levels than will the TV camera, when both cameras are set for 100% white proper exposure. The film is simply more sensitive for low light levels when properly calibrated for high light levels: compression. I did some experiments a few years ago where I messed with the gamma settings in an Ikegami HL-79E, and discovered I could make it look much more "film-like" by reducing the severity of the R-G-B gamma curves to make the middle tone and dark tone ranges less contrastly. Two big disadvantages to this. First, the dark-tone electronic noise is much higher. Second, when used in a typical studio lighting situation, the camera's contrast is much lower, so the room looks like it's filled with smoke. The studio picture lacks what still photographers call "snap". But in the super-high-contrast world outdoors, it looks pretty good. The noise kinda simulates film grain. If you tried it, you might not hate it. I shot a lot of outdoor stuff this way, and it looked pretty good, and the clients liked it. People were curious, and often asked how it was done. I told them, and they immediately became afraid. But they still liked the way it looked.... (I also reduced the detail levels in the camera quite a bit. I think this false edge enhancement is chronically set too high in most TV cameras.) I expect to be pounced upon and mauled by the anal-retentive tweaker-patrol linear-minded manual-adhering lizard-minded territorial single-eyebrow engineer crowd, who will now decry my heresy, and loudly gnash teeth. Pile on, guys. All I can tell you is, it's wrong; but it works. DISCLAIMER: If you do this, you're on your own. If you screw up your camera so bad it has to go back to the wizard's tower to restore it to normal, you pick up the bill---not me. bb s1 P.S. How do you do this adjustment? Set up a standard grey-step chip chart, and manipulate the "gamma" and "gain" for each cahnnel--R-G-B--to make the steps "bow" in a curve upward a bit. Normally the steps on a scope look straight and even as they descend. Make them start and end at the same places at zero and 100% IRE, but make the straight line of the steps now a curve bulging upward. Yes, you must commit that most horrible of all heresies in TV. You hafta screw with the green channel! NOT FOR WIMPS OR APPLIANCE OPERATORS!! When you learn why the green channel is sacred, and never to be touched by mere humans, your path to Zen TV Wisdom will have begun. The path is long, and strewn with logical contradictions and lies and traditions born when Milton Berle was the king of TV. The Grail is "Compatability".  1,, Summary-line: 21-Mar DennyD1@aol.com #Re: Purty pictures: One Man's Analytical View . . . Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18741; Fri, 21 Mar 97 16:54:16 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12571; Fri, 21 Mar 97 16:53:54 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id PAA18584; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:46:47 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:46:47 -0600 Message-Id: <970321164522_-637172564@emout01.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: DennyD1@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Purty pictures: One Man's Analytical View . . . X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:46:47 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: DennyD1@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Purty pictures: One Man's Analytical View . . . X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals In a message dated 3/20/97 7:40:43 PM, you wrote: > >In a message dated 3/20/97 9:32:30 PM, you wrote: > ><> > >It all starts with lousy in, lousy out. A video image doesn't hold a >footcandle to a film image of the same set. It can look CLOSE if the >director of photography can light and if the video camera is of substantial >quality - like a 70is or a 90is or the Dutch camera. As has been said in >previous postings, it's the ability of a film to accept a wider range of >light, so you get to put a wider range of light in the set. But if you're >shooting a run and gun situation - "behind the scenes" - you're never gonna >come close to the quality of the film image. There are many reasons why a film on video image looks different (not necessarily better) than a straight video image. Here are some: Film resolution is higher, it is not a scanned source image, it's a photograph. A truly analog image. Film's contrast range is greater than video. Film is usually shot at 24 fps. When transferred to video, this is the biggest single contributor to giving an image that "film" look because the result is, in effect, a scan conversion, which adds (or does it subtract?) a look that is not straight video. Film that is shot at 30 fps and transferred to video exhibit less of this "film" look. The colorimetry of film is very different from video. You may be surprised to learn that NTSC colorimetry has a wider range (larger number of colors) than film. But film has other aspects of color that video does not, such as the contrast range previously mentioned. The sensitivity to colors is more carefully defined in NTSC, but film's contrast range advantage is more apparent. Film has a random "grain structure". Video consists of steady-state, clearly defined scanned lines. Can anyone come up with any others, or comment? Dennis Degan Unitel Video, New York "The difficult we do right away . . . The impossible takes slightly longer . . ." --Philo T. Farnsworth (the Father of Television)  1,, Summary-line: 24-Mar dslazyk #Film/Video Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14735; Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:45:15 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07140; Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:45:02 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id UAA21682; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:40:44 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:40:44 -0600 Message-Id: <3337399B.2172@texvideo.com> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: dslazyk To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Film/Video X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:40:44 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: dslazyk To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Film/Video X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals Remember: >>TAPE is cheap....HOUSES are expensive >>(ok...so's 1000' feet of 7248 35mm, 6 hours editing at Unitel, and a Moviecam Compact...) >>-Mike >>I've shot wayyyy too much news... >>----------------------------------------- >>Michael Sime >>Video Schmideo! 72xx = 16mm 52xx = 35mm The Brass Ring. Making video resemble film, I shoot BetaSP. I take a < black ProMist. (I use a Croziel mattebox w/ 4x4s, series 9 too) Shoot to my hearts content. Bring it home, put it on a DT (BVW-65) machine speed it up 25%, crushing the blacks, to Digi-Beta. Slow it down 25% back to SP, and viola! I have something pretty nice looking. Why? The dithering head is putting out 30 frames verses 60 fields. So! I get this idea, we have a FXE-100 wedding switcher/editor. That has this 30 frame button. I hit it, and again, I see one event (frame) rather than 2(fields). But the FXE only can handle Y/C. (Im a component snob). So Betty Wills shows up on this list with a little pro-sumer digital box, with stop motion she said. Hmmm. I thought, and bought it. Put my luminance channel thru it (the box is composite) and woo hoo! It works again, this time I retain the vertical resolution (vs. the FXE) and well as the component virtues. I did have to run r-y and b-y thru allen avionics delay lines. I have fooled one than one viewer! David Slazyk Editor/Engineer Texas Production Facility  1,, Summary-line: 25-Mar Jaroslav Jedlinsky #from Jaroslav Jedlinsky Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17593; Tue, 25 Mar 97 06:03:09 EST Received: from [192.108.160.9] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27473; Tue, 25 Mar 97 06:00:15 EST Received: from cs.felk.cvut.cz (cs.felk.cvut.cz [192.108.160.1]) by ns.felk.cvut.cz (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA29075 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:07 +0100 (MET) Received: by cs.felk.cvut.cz (MX V4.2 AXP) id 186; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:06 MET Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:06 MET From: Jaroslav Jedlinsky To: OPUS@MIT.EDU Message-Id: <009B1C9C.8AF3BBFD.186@cs.felk.cvut.cz> Subject: from Jaroslav Jedlinsky *** EOOH *** US@MIT.EDU>; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:07 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:06 MET From: Jaroslav Jedlinsky To: OPUS@MIT.EDU Subject: from Jaroslav Jedlinsky Hello, I saw you geneology page. It's very good but connection here is slow and I can't see all tree at one time. I wolud be better if you can send me floppy disk by post mail with all folders in html or another format and I can see it at home on my PC in MSIE3.0 and I can print it on my printer. My post address is Jaroslav Jedlinsky Merklovice 37 517 54 VAMBERK The Czech Republic Thank you for some words about you family. Now I must take map and see where you live. Jaroslav Jedlinsky  1,, Summary-line: 25-Mar Steve Yankee #Re: Philo T. Farnsworth & A Great New Free Disk/Book Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20862; Tue, 25 Mar 97 07:17:41 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25619; Tue, 25 Mar 97 07:17:40 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id GAA38790; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:14:40 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:14:40 -0600 Message-Id: Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: "Steve Yankee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Philo T. Farnsworth & A Great New Free Disk/Book X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:14:40 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: "Steve Yankee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Philo T. Farnsworth & A Great New Free Disk/Book X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals > > > > "The difficult we do right away . . . > > The impossible takes slightly longer . . ." > > --Philo T. Farnsworth (the Father of Television) > Did Farnsworth really say that or was he in the Army? > Want to know all about Philo T??? And get some great info on video at the same time? I had the pleasure to recently work with author Hal Landen on his new Video University On-A-Disk. This is a terrific new freeware program that you can download. It includes an entensive collection of articles, guides, even a full-length book. Hal's far too modest to post any info on this project, so as the king of unabashed promotions, I'm doing it for him. (Sorry, Hal.) Video University is a stand-alone program with lots of in-depth information. IMHO, you'll find it worthwhile and (best of all) it's free. You can find it at http://www.mhv.net/videohowto Here are just a few highlights of the contents: VCR REPAIR GUIDE THE BUSINESS OF VIDEO How To Promote Your Video Business * Copyright Your Video * How To Gain Credit Card Merchant Status * Repair Your Credit Rating * How To Avoid Common Mistakes of Special Interest Producers * Tax Advantages of Your Video Business * Develop Profitable Sidelines * A Gold Mine in Public Domain Footage *Teleprompter Tips ENGINEERING PRIMER The Composite Video Signal * Waveform Monitor & Vectorscope THE BIRTH OF TELEVISION Fascinating story about the 14 year-old boy who invented television in 1922 and later beat a major corporation (still a household name) which tried to steal his invention. DESKTOP VIDEO HANDBOOK Getting Started * Non Linear Editing * Capture Cards For Under $1000 * Troubleshooting & Optimizing Windows * And a bunch more. Free. What more can I say? Check it out. Steve STEVE YANKEE COMMUNICATIONS Promotional Copy/Marketing Strategy Info available at http://www.syonline.com  1,, Summary-line: 26-Mar Wally Eakins #Great Train Robbery Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00117; Wed, 26 Mar 97 17:55:26 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13391; Wed, 26 Mar 97 17:55:04 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id QAA88241; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:49:47 -0600 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:49:47 -0600 Message-Id: Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: Wally Eakins To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Great Train Robbery X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:49:47 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: Wally Eakins To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Great Train Robbery X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals Besides the ending trick gunshot by "Bronco Bill" Anderson, this Edison film is noted for very early use of: Fully developed story (not just a record of street scenes) Story developed by inter-cutting--inside station, posse, on board the train: girl paces, horses dash, train full speed ahead. Use of rear screen projection--trains passing outside station window. Actor being shot. Camera riding the train. Dead body being thrown from train. Last minute rescue! Plus the famous gunshot. And Wonder of Wonders--it was filmed in New Jersey! This film is really quite a study in the art of film story telling. See if you can find the Blackhawk edition, not one of the chopped up laughs-from-yesteryear prints.  1,, Summary-line: 1-Apr furdanet@impsat.net.co #Time Code Calculator/NAB! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00990; Tue, 1 Apr 97 19:29:44 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17880; Tue, 1 Apr 97 19:29:24 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id SAA08399; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:23:58 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:23:58 -0600 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970401192120.30e792f2@impsat.net.co> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: "Francisco Urdaneta A." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Time Code Calculator/NAB! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:23:58 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: "Francisco Urdaneta A." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Time Code Calculator/NAB! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals >I received (and often use) a time code calculator for Macintosh that some >kind soul on this list made available awhile back. > >I'm now wondering whether anyone has, or knows where to find, a PC >(Windows) version - the boss wants one for the box in the A-B roll suite. Ok... Cool timecode calculator for Windows 3.X ... works OK on '95. It's at: http://www.filmmaker.com/files.html File name is TCCALC.ZIP. The freeware AVID calculator for MAC is there also.... BTW... about NAB gathering, and since I'd like to practice my LoUsY english with all of ya', I think it's better to set several times/places... I'm going to stay sunday to thursday, but already got a tight schedule... Francisco Urdaneta  1,, Summary-line: 5-Apr John Ferrick #Re: Audio/DVC/ (john Ferrick) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24271; Sat, 5 Apr 97 11:53:22 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19191; Sat, 5 Apr 97 11:52:59 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id KAA65734; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 10:34:36 -0600 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 10:34:36 -0600 Message-Id: <33467D03.78A1@bibliotech.co.uk> Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: j.ferrick@bibliotech.co.uk (John Ferrick) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Audio/DVC/ (john Ferrick) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 10:34:36 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: j.ferrick@bibliotech.co.uk (John Ferrick) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Audio/DVC/ (john Ferrick) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals Mark Santa-Maria wrote: > > Afewquestions about your comments > > >DV, either work as I do with a converter of the DV timecode to LTC and > >then use that to sync an external recorder, or use a separate TC > >generator and have it feed the DV and the recorder. > > > How are you reading the timecode from an EZ1 in the field? or a 1000? I have built a unit that converts the DV timecode presented over the Lanc to LTC and also Midi Time Code, It displays on an small LCD and also accepts Midi Machine Control Commands and conmverts them to the lanc commands. There is a Composite feed that makes sure that the TC is frame resolved. This allows the camera to provide stable TC to drive a TC dat, or in my case a DATAMASTER/ADAT or a Roland Vs880 or CakeWalk Pro audio. I have also transmitted the TC from my unit in LTC mode over a wireless mic to a remote receiver that then jam syncs (the Square wave is too distorted after wireless transmission to feed directly. How are you sending time code to either camera from a remote TC gen in the > field? We have a mod that connects to the remote mic input, and provides an interface from a TC generator to one track of the audio, the other track can be fed from another mic, This is tricky in that if the limiter cuts in on the mic, it can screw up the levels of the TC, so usually I just record TC on the camera audio. I am expanding the interface box to support 9-pin interface, and I am experimenting with an option to take the LTC recorded on the Camera audio decode it and use it as the TC for the 9-pin vs the dv time code >As I have said before, PANASONIC so far doesn't even have a DV deck. > What do you mean they don't have DV decks? Damn, I must have spent 16,000> for two nothings sitting in my rack? Are you sure they are recording DV on ME tape, and not DVCpro on MO tape ?? Regards John  1,, Summary-line: 5-Apr Bruce Bowers #Overseas Formats (including France) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29789; Sat, 5 Apr 97 12:59:24 EST Received: from www.imagin.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10751; Sat, 5 Apr 97 12:59:23 EST Received: from prime.imagin.net (server@localhost.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by prime.imagin.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id LAA83908; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:55:42 -0600 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:55:42 -0600 Message-Id: Errors-To: betwills@airmail.net Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: Bruce Bowers To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Overseas Formats (including France) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:55:42 -0600 Reply-To: vidpro@imagin.net Originator: vidpro@imagin.net Sender: vidpro@imagin.net Precedence: bulk From: Bruce Bowers To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Overseas Formats (including France) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The List For Video And Television Professionals For those of you who don't know what format goes where, here is the worldwide list. Hope this helps! Bruce Bowers INTERNATIONAL TV STANDARDS CHART by TEN-LAB COUNTRY VHF STANDARD UHF STANDARD AFGANISTAN PAL/SECAM B ALBANIA PAL B PAL G ALGERIA PAL B PAL G ANGOLA PAL I ARGENTINA PAL N PAL N AUSTRALIA PAL B PAL G AUSTRIA PAL B PAL G AZORES PAL B BAHAMAS NTSC M BAHRAIN PAL B PAL G BANGLADESH PAL B BARBADOS NTSC M BELGIUM PAL B PAL H BERMUDA NTSC M BOLIVIA NTSC M BOTSWANA PAL I BOURKINA FASO SECAM K1 BRAZIL PAL M PAL M BRUNEI PAL B BULGARIA SECAM D SECAM K BURMA NTSC M BURUNDI SECAM K1 CAMBODIA NTSC M CAMEROON PAL B PAL G CANADA NTSC M NTSC M CANARY ISLANDS PAL B CHAD SECAM K1 CHILE NTSC M NTSC M CHINA PAL D COLOMBIA NTSC M NTSC M COSTA RICA NTSC M NTSC M CUBA NTSC M NTSC M CYPRUS PAL G PAL G CZECHOSLOVAKIA SECAM D SECAM K DAHOMEY SECAM K1 DENMARK PAL B PAL G DJIBHOUTI SECAM B SECAM G DOMINICAN REP NTSC M NTSC M ECUADOR NTSC M NTSC M EGYPT SECAM B SECAM G EL SALVADOR NTSC M NTSC M EQUATORIAL GUINEA PAL B ETHIOPIA PAL B PAL G FIJI PAL B FINLAND PAL B PAL G FRANCE SECAM L SECAM L FRENCH POLYNESIA K1 GABON SECAM K1 GAMBIA PAL I GERMAN DEM REP. SECAM B SECAM G GERMAN FED REP. PAL B PAL G GHANA PAL B PAL G GIBRALTAR PAL B PAL H GREECE SECAM B SECAM G GREENLAND NTSC M/PAL B GUADELOUPE SECAM K1 GUAM NTSC M GUATEMALA NTSC M NTSC M GUANA (FRENCH) SECAM K1 GUINEA PAL K HONDURAS NTSC M NTSC M HONG KONG PAL I HUNGARY SECAM D SECAM K ICELAND PAL B PAL G INDIA PAL B INDONESIA PAL B PAL G IRAN SECAM B SECAM G IRAQ SECAM B IRELAND PAL I PAL I ISRAEL PAL B PAL G ITALY PAL B PAL G IVORY COAST SECAM K1 JAMAICA NTSC M JAPAN NTSC M NTSC M JORDAN PAL B PAL G KENYA PAL B PAL G KOREA NORTH SECAM D KOREA SOUTH NTSC M NTSC M KUWAIT PAL B LEBANON SECAM B SECAM G LIBERIA PAL B PAL H LIBYA SECAM B SECAM G LUXEMBOURG PAL B/SECAM L PAL G MADAGASCAR SECAM K1 MADEIRA PAL B MALAGASY SECAM K1 MALAWI PAL B PAL G MALAYSIA PAL B MALI SECAM K1 MALTA PAL B PAL H MARTINIQUE SECAM K1 MAURITANIA SECAM B MAURITIUS SECAM B MEXICO NTSC M NTSC M MONACO SECAM L MONGOLIA SECAM D MOROCCO SECAM B MOZAMBIQUE PAL B NAMIBIA PAL I NEPAL PAL B NETHERLANDS PAL B PAL G NETH. ANTILLES NTSC M NTSC M NEW CALEDONIA SECAM K1 NEW GUINEA PAL B PAL G NEW ZEALAND PAL B NICARAGUA NTSC M NTSC M NIGER SECAM K1 NIGERIA PAL B PAL G NORWAY PAL B PAL G OMAN PAL B PAL G PAKISTAN PAL B PANAMA NTSC M NTSC M PARAGUAY PAL N PERU NTSC M NTSC M PHILIPPINES NTSC M NTSC M POLAND SECAM D SECAM K PORTUGAL PAL B PAL G PUERTO RICO NTSC M NTSC M QATAR PAL B REUNION SECAM K1 RUMANIA SECAM D SECAM K RUSSIA SECAM D SECAM K RWANDA SECAM K1 SABAH/SARAWAK PAL B ST. KITTS NTSC M NTSC M SAMOA NTSC M SAUDI ARABIA SECAM B SECAM G SENEGAL SECAM K1 SEYCHELLES PAL B PAL G SIERRA LEONE PAL B PAL G SINGAPORE PAL B PAL G SOMALIA PAL B PAL G SOUTH AFRICA PAL I PAL I SPAIN PAL B PAL G SRI LANKA PAL B SUDAN PAL B PAL G SURINAM NTSC M NTSC M SWAZILAND PAL B PAL G SWEDEN PAL B PAL G SWITZERLAND PAL B PAL G SYRIA SECAM B TAHITI SECAM K1 TAIWAN NTSC M NTSC M TANZANIA PAL B PAL B THAILAND PAL B TOGO SECAM K TRINIDAD Y TOBAGO NTSC M NTSC M TUNISIA SECAM B TURKEY PAL B PAL G UGANDA PAL B PAL G UNITED ARAB EMIRATES PAL B PAL G UNITED KINGDOM PAL I UPPER VOLTA SECAM K1 URUGUAY PAL N PAL N USA  @ VENEZUELA NTSC M NTSC M VIETNAM NTSC M NTSC M YEMEN PAL B YUGOSLAVIA PAL B PAL G ZAIRE SECAM K1 ZAMBIA PAL B PAL G ZIMBABWE PAL B PAL G ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BOWERS MEDIA GROUP, Inc. 704/542-8754 Office P.O. Box 470352 704/451-1595 Digital Cellular Charlotte, NC 28247 704/542-9408 Fax U.S.A. http://www.mandy.com/bow002.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 15-Apr MABromberg@aol.com #Re: Thespis Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05965; Tue, 15 Apr 97 12:00:54 EDT Received: from emout29.mx.aol.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26604; Tue, 15 Apr 97 11:00:28 EST Received: (from root@localhost) by emout29.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA19604; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:00:50 -0400 (EDT) From: MABromberg@aol.com Message-Id: <970415115831_740608819@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: cjsmith@MIT.EDU Cc: zacheiss@MIT.EDU, opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Thespis *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:00:50 -0400 (EDT) From: MABromberg@aol.com To: cjsmith@MIT.EDU Cc: zacheiss@MIT.EDU, opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Thespis Hi, CarolYN. Sternenberg seems to have the inside information. All I can add is that I have a copy of Jonathan Strong's score (I will bring it to the Patience strike party, along with the other scores, and we can try to sing through it). He requires a small performance royalty, as apparently does Sullivan's estate for some of the recently-published ballet music. I find that Strong's settings are usually pretty metrical and appropriate, but the Diddlesex Junction song often has way too many syllables sharing the same note (it's a ton of fun to sing otherwise, with all the train sounds building). One point Sternenberg didn't mention is that the tunes taken from other Savoy operas are TOO familiar to many Savoyards - you hear the tune and think of the real words, which interferes with your appreciation of the retrofit Thespis lyrics. This isn't a problem with the tunes he uses from ballets and the like, so maybe one of the other retrofit versions which eschews familiarity would be preferable. Mike  1,, Summary-line: 18-Apr Guillermo J. Rozas #I've changed jobs Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07122; Fri, 18 Apr 97 16:24:24 EDT Received: from martigny.ai.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26807; Fri, 18 Apr 97 15:23:57 EST Received: from berne.ai.mit.edu by martigny.ai.mit.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA203335036; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:23:56 -0400 From: Guillermo J. Rozas Message-Id: <199704182023.AA203335036@martigny.ai.mit.edu> Received: by berne.ai.mit.edu (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA260925035; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:23:55 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:23:55 -0400 To: nobody@martigny.ai.mit.edu Subject: I've changed jobs Reply-To: gjr@martigny.ai.mit.edu *** EOOH *** From: Guillermo J. Rozas Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:23:55 -0400 To: nobody@martigny.ai.mit.edu Subject: I've changed jobs Reply-To: gjr@martigny.ai.mit.edu As some of you know, I left HP earlier this week. I am now working at Transmeta Corp. For those of you who know Kleanthes, it is the same place where he works. At any rate, my e-mail address and work address are gjr@transmeta.com Guillermo J. Rozas Transmeta Corp. 3940 Freedom Circle Santa Clara, CA 95054 (408) 327-9830 x271 My home address and phone remain the same. Of course, gjr@martigny.ai.mit.edu continues to work for e-mail.  1,, Summary-line: 1-May Black and White Sales #NXFax Announcement Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09697; Thu, 1 May 97 13:01:21 EDT Received: from relay5.UU.NET by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12374; Thu, 1 May 97 12:00:47 EST Received: from uucp6.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp6.UU.NET [192.48.96.37]) id QQcnrf15312; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bandw.UUCP by uucp6.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:46:45 -0400 Received: from sputnik by bandw.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA02096; Thu, 1 May 97 12:29:11 -0400 Message-Id: <9705011629.AA02096@bandw.com> Received: by sputnik.bandw.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA05567; Thu, 1 May 97 12:30:09 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Black and White Sales Date: Thu, 1 May 97 12:30:08 -0400 To: Group_51@uunet.uu.net, Group_52@uunet.uu.net, Group_53@uunet.uu.net, Group_6@uunet.uu.net, Group_7@uunet.uu.net, Group_8@uunet.uu.net, Group_9@uunet.uu.net Subject: NXFax Announcement *** EOOH *** Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) From: Black and White Sales Date: Thu, 1 May 97 12:30:08 -0400 To: Group_51@uunet.uu.net, Group_52@uunet.uu.net, Group_53@uunet.uu.net, Group_6@uunet.uu.net, Group_7@uunet.uu.net, Group_8@uunet.uu.net, Group_9@uunet.uu.net Subject: NXFax Announcement May 1, 1997 Dear NXFax User, Because of declining activity in the NeXT marketplace, it is no longer profitable for Black & White Software to continue marketing and supporting NXFax. So, after nearly 5 years, we have made the decision to stop selling NXFax effective May 30, 1997. In addition we will no longer sell ZyXEL modems after May 30, 1997. Between now and the end of the month, special pricing will be available for NXFax and NXFax bundled with ZyXEL U-1496E or Omni 288S modems. NXFax $69 NXFax, ZyXEL U-1496E modem, cable $385 NXFax, ZyXEL Omni 288S modem, cable $425 Black modem cable $10 Intel modem cable $10 If you anticipate that you will need additional licenses or packages, please take advantage of the above prices and purchase what you need now. Please note that there will be no technical support available after May 30, 1997. We are in the process of making the software and Help Addendum available on an approriate Web site. We will make an announcement when the details have been worked out. In the meantime, NXFax can still be obtained at ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next/demos/comm. The files are: NXFax1.04.tar NXFax1.04.README.txt Thank you for the opportunity to provide your NeXTSTEP faxing solution. Best of luck in your future endeavors. Regards, ---------------------------------------------------------- Janice Kenyon sales@bandw.com Black & White Software, Inc. NeXTMail OK Bridge Street Marketplace 802-496-8500 Waitsfield, VT 05673-1210 802-496-5112 (fax) ----------------------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 12-May Stephen Peters #Re: Santa Claus is Coming To Town (or maybe just Steve & ML) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22591; Mon, 12 May 97 16:38:47 EDT Received: from blues.cygnus.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04294; Mon, 12 May 97 15:38:01 EST Received: by blues.cygnus.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA07300; Mon, 12 May 1997 13:39:29 -0700 Sender: speters@blues.cygnus.com To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Santa Claus is Coming To Town (or maybe just Steve & ML) References: <199705121931.PAA20602@charon.MIT.EDU> From: Stephen Peters Date: 12 May 1997 13:39:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: "David C. Jedlinsky"'s message of Mon, 12 May 1997 15:31:53 -0400 Message-Id: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.8/Emacs 19.34 *** EOOH *** Sender: speters@blues.cygnus.com To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Santa Claus is Coming To Town (or maybe just Steve & ML) References: <199705121931.PAA20602@charon.MIT.EDU> From: Stephen Peters Date: 12 May 1997 13:39:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: "David C. Jedlinsky"'s message of Mon, 12 May 1997 15:31:53 -0400 Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.8/Emacs 19.34 "David C. Jedlinsky" writes: > I figured that would happen, Oh well. July's not that far off. > We'll be holding several barbeques, etc., over the summer. We'll let > you know when those roll around. I assume your email address will > stay current? Yup. And ML will remain at mlpeters@sdg.com, in case you don't have that address :-) -- Stephen L. Peters speters@cygnus.com PGP fingerprint: BFA4 D0CF 8925 08AE 0CA5 CCDD 343D 6AC6 "What, do you think soup is a biped?" -- Crow, MST3K  1,, Summary-line: 12-May Bruce I. Miller #Savoynet -Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25394; Mon, 12 May 97 16:48:21 EDT Received: from auburn.holycross.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07063; Mon, 12 May 97 15:47:40 EST Received: from HCDOMAIN-Message_Server by holycross.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 12 May 1997 16:45:44 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:45:23 -0400 From: Bruce I. Miller To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Savoynet -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline *** EOOH *** X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:45:23 -0400 From: Bruce I. Miller To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Savoynet -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Dave - You are correct, I am back. You are probably a little confused as to what rubbed my nerves so raw. In a private e-mail to me (which I first thought was publicly sent on SavoyNet and fortunately, it was not) Mr. Craven mentioned that he had spoken with someone in the Sudbury production who had made nasty cracks about the auditions and my lack of ability to relate to people. Of course he took this hearsay as gospel. I eventually e-mailed back to David that the situation was somewhat more complex than he was aware, and that I declined to go into the matter any further as it was really none of his business. So evidently some of the Sudbury assholes have been busy, indeed. I also let him have it about his public e-mail concerning my alleged "painful lack of awareness" about character development, and the unknown damage such an irresponsible statement can do to someone down the road, even years from now. (I suspect this was also deposited into his ear by some of my Sudbury "friends.") I told him that even if he did make a public apology it could not undo any of that. He was chastised as well by some others on the net, and he discovered I had unsubscribed. He was sorry it had come to that and offered a "truce" that he would not respond to any of my e-mails for six months. I replied that I didn't care whether he responded to my e-mails or not as long as he refrained from assassination of my professional work and my personal qualities. As to the videos - there is a glitch in the procedings right now, brought about by Mr. Covert's negotiations with Frank Caputo. I brought home an edited copy to make notes for final corrections, and discovered that there was a major problem with the soundtrack which was not in the original - huge dropouts which distorted the sound unacceptably. It turns out that John refused to accept anything other than the cheapest tape on which to make copies. The picture is somewhat pale, but at least it's not distorted; however, for people with SONY configurations (evidently about 20 to 30 per cent of the market) the soudtrack which sounds fine on most equipment is really poor. (I happen to have a SONY). On Frank's Fischer home unit it looks and sounds OK, but I know it's not my machine which is out of alignment, as I checked the tape with a very good machine in the local HI-Fi shop with whom I deal, on their SONY, and we had exactly the same problem. Frank was willing to accept this and deal with people on an individual basis, but I was not. (Frank made me another copy on good Maxell tape and it solved most of the problem; on a premium TDK tape, he said, it would be solved completely). So I called Eric Ruben, the new Sudbury Board chairman, and explained the issue. He called Frank, and Eric will review two copies of the tape - one on the cheap shit and the other on a good tape, and let the Board know whether or not he feels they ought to up the price 3 bucks to get premium tape. Of course I have no idea what Eric will be testing the tapes on, but I do understand he's knowledgeable in this field. The bottom line is a delay, but I hope of no more than a month. At least the tape is completely edited and ready for duplication, once the quality control issue is ironed out. Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu >>> "David C. Jedlinsky" 05/12/97 04:08pm >>> Am I right in assuming that the public apology by Mr. Craven, and your subsequent flurry of messages to savoynet indicate that your absence from same has been terminated? -Dave P.S. Good to hear the videos are done. I look forward to receiving mine; how long do they usually take to duplicate and mail them? I wish that Sudbury had called me a little earlier than the night before the taping was to happen with their audio dilemma; things could have turned out much better.  1,, Summary-line: 15-May Jeffrey C. Gilman Bigler #[Minton@mail.utexas.edu: Lifetime Nicads] Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11526; Thu, 15 May 97 17:26:20 EDT Received: from IMBRIUM.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26443; Thu, 15 May 97 16:25:04 EST Received: by imbrium.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA10760; Thu, 15 May 97 17:25:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 May 97 17:25:44 -0400 Message-Id: <9705152125.AA10760@imbrium.MIT.EDU> To: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: [Minton@mail.utexas.edu: Lifetime Nicads] From: Jeffrey C. Gilman Bigler Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: first-class X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 19.34.1 X-Zippy: Yow! Is this sexual intercourse yet?? Is it, huh, is it?? Reply-To: jcb@MIT.EDU *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 15 May 97 17:25:44 -0400 To: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: [Minton@mail.utexas.edu: Lifetime Nicads] From: Jeffrey C. Gilman Bigler Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: first-class X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 19.34.1 X-Zippy: Yow! Is this sexual intercourse yet?? Is it, huh, is it?? Reply-To: jcb@MIT.EDU Here's the message about high power NiCd batteries that I mentioned at CYN's dessert party a couple of weeks ago. Jeff ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:04:28 -0500 To: cavers@ditell.com From: Minton@mail.utexas.edu (Mark A. Minton) Subject: Lifetime Nicads >Milleniums are the best rechargeable nicads I've ever found. ..... >On top of that they are, or were, guaranteed to recharge forever. Real Goods Corporation in California used to sell Millenium batteries, I think. In their current catalog they do not have Millenium, but they have a brand they claim is the best ever nicad, called Golden Power. They are high capacity: AA, 700mAh, $2.25; C, 1,800 mAh, $4.75; and D, 4,000 mAh, $6.75. (All prices with a 5% discount if you are a member.) And they are guaranteed for life (yours, not the battery's :-))! Contact Real Goods at realgood@realgoods.com or http://www.realgoods.com/ Disclaimer: I have never tried these batteries, nor do I have any connection with Real Goods other than being a member. Mark Minton ------- End of forwarded message -------  1,, Summary-line: 19-May jkhsieh@MIT.EDU #old video Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22087; Mon, 19 May 97 12:57:22 EDT Received: from M4-167-6.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14542; Mon, 19 May 97 12:57:20 EDT From: jkhsieh@MIT.EDU Received: by m4-167-6.MIT.EDU (5.x/4.7) id AA28012; Mon, 19 May 1997 12:57:17 -0400 Message-Id: <9705191657.AA28012@m4-167-6.MIT.EDU> To: gsp@MIT.EDU Subject: old video Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:57:16 EDT *** EOOH *** From: jkhsieh@MIT.EDU To: gsp@MIT.EDU Subject: old video Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:57:16 EDT Hi. Sorry I was lame and didn't do this earlier... Can anyone still get me a video tape of The Sorcerer from any night besides the final performance? It was Fall of '95. The official version of the tape was from the last performance, but I wasn't in it. Thanks a lot! Julie  1,, Summary-line: 25-May Mark Eichin #Reporting MMF to the IRS [long] Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26157; Sun, 25 May 97 14:04:46 EDT Received: from cygnus.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24474; Sun, 25 May 97 14:03:44 EDT Received: from tweedledumb.cygnus.com (tweedledumb.cygnus.com [192.80.44.1]) by cygnus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28941 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 11:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maneki-neko.cygnus.com by tweedledumb.cygnus.com (4.1/4.7) id AA11571; Sun, 25 May 97 14:04:28 EDT Received: (from eichin@localhost) by maneki-neko.cygnus.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA08237; Sun, 25 May 1997 14:04:28 -0400 To: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: Reporting MMF to the IRS [long] From: Mark Eichin Date: 25 May 1997 14:04:27 -0400 Message-Id: Lines: 69 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.53/Emacs 19.34 *** EOOH *** To: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: Reporting MMF to the IRS [long] From: Mark Eichin Date: 25 May 1997 14:04:27 -0400 Lines: 69 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.53/Emacs 19.34 People asked about this at Bill's last night. Enjoy... _Mark_ ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: afried@bellatlantic.net (Andrew Fried) Newsgroups: alt.current-events.net-abuse,alt.current-events.net-abuse.spam,news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,news.admin.announce Subject: Reporting MMF to the IRS [long] Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet Date: 11 Mar 1997 09:26:20 -0500 Organization: Bell Atlantic Internet Solutions Message-ID: <5g2p4j$ers-NANA@world1.bawave.com> Reply-To: Inspector Andrew Fried Keywords: IRS,MMF,make money fast,pyramid,chain letter,spam Over the past six months, my email address has appeared in the "fraud killer list", a list of agency contacts used to report potential tax fraud violations by the "make money fast" (MMF) Usenet spammers. Since complaints such as those don't fall under my specific area of jurisdiction, I have been manually forwarding all such messages to the appropriate department within my agency. In order to facilitate routing complaints to the IRS via email, I have established two special mailboxes. Email sent to those addresses will be automatically forwarded to the correct organizations within the Service. This will assure faster delivery and reduce congestion on my personal email account. The addresses are as follows: net-abuse@nocs.insp.irs.gov Use this address to report make money fast (MMF) schemes. Mail sent to this address will be forwarded to the Criminal Investigation Division (CID) for appropriate action. hotline@nocs.insp.irs.gov Mail sent to this address will be forwarded to Internal Security (Inspection), the IRS's "internal affairs" type organization. Internal Security is responsible for investigating criminal acts which attempt to corrupt our tax system. Internal Security is also responsible for the protection of all Service employees. Use this address to report attempted bribery of IRS employees, conspiracy to defraud the tax system, threats against the IRS or IRS employees or any other suspected criminal acts affecting the integrity of our tax system. Please don't forward the infamous "IRS Abuse" reports here. Reports of tax fraud should be sent directly to your regional IRS Service Center; there is currently no Internet email address for reporting those suspected offenses. Please distribute this message to newsgroup moderators and members of your newsgroups. Should you have any other non-tax related questions, feel free to write to me directly at: afried@nocs.insp.irs.gov -- Inspector Andrew Fried IRS Internal Security Voice: (202) 622-3535 1111 Constitution Ave, NW Fax: (202) 622-8681 Washington, DC 20224 -- Andrew Fried afried@bellatlantic.net -- All postings to news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins are unconfirmed and unverified unless stated otherwise by the moderators. All opinions expressed above are considered the opinions of the original poster, not the moderators or their respective employers. For a copy of the guidelines to this group, see: http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~tskirvin/home/nana/ ------- End of forwarded message -------  1,, Summary-line: 3-Jun Rebecca Consentino #Rebecca at home Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17600; Tue, 3 Jun 97 08:38:50 EDT Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17361; Tue, 3 Jun 97 08:38:48 EDT Received: from localhost (consentr@localhost) by powerpc.emmanuel.edu (8.8.5/8.7) with SMTP id IAA212688; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:41 :09 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:41:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Rebecca Consentino To: Jenna at home , Brenna Pomeroy , Rachel Breed , Louise Cash , Megan Houpt at home , Lucy Lim , Bill Schneider , Salvatore Consentino , Satomi Araki , "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Rebecca at home Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** :09 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:41:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Rebecca Consentino To: Jenna at home , Brenna Pomeroy , Rachel Breed , Louise Cash , Megan Houpt at home , Lucy Lim , Bill Schneider , Salvatore Consentino , Satomi Araki , "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Rebecca at home Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From tonight (Tues) till Sunday afternoon, I will be at home. If you want to email me, my address will be: Aestival@aol.com If you feel compelled to _call_ me, my number is 508/687-2365.  1, answered,, Summary-line: 6-Jun Angelica Savage #thank you Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01479; Fri, 6 Jun 97 12:13:34 EDT Received: from dimins.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22248; Fri, 6 Jun 97 12:13:33 EDT Received: (from mail@localhost) by wally.dimins.com (8.7.4/8.7.1) id MAA31847; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:13:55 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:13:55 -0400 Received: from angelica(204.215.187.57) by wally via smap (V1.3) id sma031839; Fri Jun 6 12:13:35 1997 X-Sender: angelica@webster.dimins.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: opus@MIT.EDU, ruth@dimins.com From: asavage@dimins.com (Angelica Savage) Subject: thank you *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:13:55 -0400 X-Sender: angelica@webster.dimins.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: opus@MIT.EDU, ruth@dimins.com From: asavage@dimins.com (Angelica Savage) Subject: thank you Dear Dave & Ruth: I wanted to thank you for the concern you expressed regarding my recent biopsy, which I am delighted to inform is benign :-) :-) I'm sorry if it was a bit ackward when you tryed to reach me but there were some relationship things happening at the same time and those are never fun. You folks are very special and I thank you for being so. Let's see if Sunday something works with respect to sailing, call me Saturday evening at home 617-239-1556 if not, I'll call you Sat evening from the boat if I stay overnight. hugs -angelica  1,, Summary-line: 10-Jun Kathy M. O'Craven #The world's first native O'Craven is here! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06543; Tue, 10 Jun 97 17:10:19 EDT Received: from martigny.ai.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23810; Tue, 10 Jun 97 17:09:22 EDT Received: from rowland.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu by martigny.ai.mit.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA031177004; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:10:04 -0400 Received: (kmo@localhost) by rowland.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) id RAA23552; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:10:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kathy M. O'Craven" Message-Id: <199706102110.RAA23552@rowland.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> To: lsc-alums@martigny.ai.mit.edu Subject: The world's first native O'Craven is here! Cc: kmo@rowland.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:10:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kathy M. O'Craven" To: lsc-alums@martigny.ai.mit.edu Subject: The world's first native O'Craven is here! Cc: kmo@rowland.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu Jill Annika O'Craven was born May 10, 1997 at 3:50 am weighing a hefty 9lbs 4oz Parents Kathy O'Craven (formerly O'Connell) (KMO) and Duffy O'Craven (formerly Craven) (formerly QDC) are having a blast with her. After years of watching the paired-off APO folks have babies and the paired-off LSC folks remain childless, and wondering what that meant for us as paired-off APO&LSC folks, we were very pleased when the mystery was brought to an end with Hannah Weems' birth. So now there are two -- who's next? -KMO  1, answered,, Summary-line: 12-Jun Angelica Savage #Sailing, will we ever ... Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16926; Thu, 12 Jun 97 11:46:15 EDT Received: from dimins.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02201; Thu, 12 Jun 97 11:46:14 EDT Received: (from mail@localhost) by wally.dimins.com (8.7.4/8.7.1) id LAA10448; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:46:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:46:30 -0400 Received: from angelica(204.215.187.57) by wally via smap (V1.3) id sma010446; Thu Jun 12 11:46:23 1997 X-Sender: angelica@webster.dimins.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: opus@MIT.EDU, ruth@dimins.com From: asavage@dimins.com (Angelica Savage) Subject: Sailing, will we ever ... *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:46:30 -0400 X-Sender: angelica@webster.dimins.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: opus@MIT.EDU, ruth@dimins.com From: asavage@dimins.com (Angelica Savage) Subject: Sailing, will we ever ... Just to update you two salt water maties: Philip, the sailing coach Phil (oh oh), and myself are planning a trip to Prouts Neck in Cape Elizabeth, Maine. We would be leaving Boston, Wednesday the 20th of August, plan a stop in Portsmouth NH and then head to Prouts. It should be a 2-4 day sail. The return portion would be Friday the 29th of August arriving in Boston on Sunday the 31st of August. We will not be sharing this trip with others except you two and I am asking that you share 1/2 of the provisioning cost and 1/2 the cost of our captain Phil McElroy for whatever portion of the trip you may wish to join us in. Responsibilities to include sharing the helm and having a gooood time. Hope you can join us for at least a part of the trip, we could even pick you up in Portsmouth NH if this works better for you. let me know -angelica & Phil  1,, Summary-line: 24-Jun Jedlinsky Jaroslav #from Jaroslav Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19067; Tue, 24 Jun 97 03:10:20 EDT Received: from [192.108.160.9] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20506; Tue, 24 Jun 97 03:10:14 EDT Received: from cslab.felk.cvut.cz (cslab.felk.cvut.cz [192.108.160.60]) by ns.felk.cvut.cz (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA08793 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:10:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from CSLAB/SpoolDir by cslab.felk.cvut.cz (Mercury 1.31); 24 Jun 97 09:10:50 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by CSLAB (Mercury 1.31); 24 Jun 97 09:10:30 +0100 From: "Jedlinsky Jaroslav" Organization: Czech Technical University To: opus@MIT.EDU Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:10:29 MET-2DST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: from Jaroslav Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <295483638F2@cslab.felk.cvut.cz> *** EOOH *** From: "Jedlinsky Jaroslav" Organization: Czech Technical University To: opus@MIT.EDU Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:10:29 MET-2DST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: from Jaroslav Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Hello David, I'm sorry for no answers, but now I have many exams and I haven't time for Internet. We try to contact Mr. Michalicka for more information about your (and I hope our) family. On vacations I will not be here and I will not allowed to read messages. So I will write after about three month. Jaroslav Jedlinsky  1,, Summary-line: 25-Jun Marisa #something i learned today Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21106; Wed, 25 Jun 97 21:12:02 EDT Received: from TALKING-HEADS.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06442; Wed, 25 Jun 97 21:11:34 EDT Received: (from marisa@localhost) by talking-heads.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA27345; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:15:14 -0400 From: Marisa Message-Id: <199706260115.VAA27345@talking-heads.mit.edu> To: gsp-discuss@MIT.EDU Subject: something i learned today Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:15:14 EDT *** EOOH *** From: Marisa To: gsp-discuss@MIT.EDU Subject: something i learned today Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:15:14 EDT I'm mentioning this following information now incase I forget it: I just read today that MIT students performed the American premiere of Grand Duke in May of 1901. I think if would be really cool to perform it again on May of 2001 (it could really be hyped up as a 100 year celebration). Of course it wasn't our group that performed it, but it would still be cool... in any case- something to bring up next show selection time as a possible reason to do GD in 5/01. i'm sure we'll all forget this come next spring :) marisa  1,, Summary-line: 11-Jul Rebecca Consentino #Hola! Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11014; Fri, 11 Jul 97 13:05:05 EDT Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB08372; Fri, 11 Jul 97 13:05:04 EDT Received: from localhost (consentr@localhost) by powerpc.emmanuel.edu (8.8.5/8.7) with SMTP id NAA09164 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:06:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:06:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Hola! Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** U>; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:06:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:06:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Hola! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've got everything about the videos all figured out. We sold all but three tapes, sigh, and so we have $170 for you. I'm going to call Louise and find out if I can sign the checks written out to her, and then deposit them myself, so I can write you folks a check since I'll be there this weekend. Ufortunately, this means we fall $366 short of the total. What's that, 12 voice lessons??? I shall now call and inform Louise of all this. You'll ahve to set up lessons w/ her, now that she's done teaching classes (she's _taking_ class, which takes less time that teaching!). But now would be a really good time for your lessons, methinks. Again, her # is 735-9934. You can call her anythyme. =) Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!"  1,, Summary-line: 7-Aug Gwyn #Re: Toronto info query (fwd (fwd) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15718; Thu, 7 Aug 97 12:12:37 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11841; Thu, 7 Aug 97 12:12:35 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA18988; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Gwyn To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Toronto info query (fwd (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Gwyn To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Toronto info query (fwd (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 7 Aug 1997 10:18:30 U From: Margaret Schroeder To: Gwyn Subject: Re: Toronto info query (fwd Reply to: RE>>Toronto info query (fwd) I'm assuming the question was "What is good to see in Toronto?"... Toronto DOES have theaters of its own, obviously. THE O'Keefe center does a little of everything; opera, ballet, one-day superstar concerts..... I think the current big musical in town is "Phantom of the Opera;" my parents grumbled something to me recently about "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat" finally leaving town, so they didn't have to listen to the endless ads for it anymore....... Then there's lots of the equivilent of off-Broadway theater, and a Second City troupe, and the University stuff. And the Toronto Symphony, at Roy Thompson Hall, and the Early Music group Tafelmusik... But yeah, Stratford and Niagara on the Lake are well worth the trips. Yes, that is where the good used book and record shops are. Not surprisingly, that is the neighbourhood of the Unviersity of Toronto.... Art Gallery of Ontario is very good, but somehow the respondant managed to miss the Royal Ontario Museum, on Queen's Park in the same general area (which is, again, around the University of Toronto). The ROM is roughly equivilent in collection type to the Field Musuem plus the Adler Planetarium, with a little Art Institute thrown in.... Across from the ROM is a ceramics museum, which is nice if you are into pottery and Wedgewood and stuff..... Also, the Bata Shoe museum, only a few years old, is said to be a hoot (I haven't been yet.) If you have a car, the KLeinburg Gallery out in the northern suburb of the same name is a really good museum of Canadian Art...... And, as my one friend would insist on reminding us all, the Hockey Hall of Fame is in Toronto, across from the train station.... (I can honestly say I have never been tempted to set foot in it...) And one is practically required by law to set foot in the CN Tower..... Ditto Eaton Center (the central city shopping mall).... The Metro Zoo is wonderful, although I have not been there in several years. Unless public transport out there has improved, rather like the Brookfield zoo, one must have a car to get to the Toronto Metro Zoo. And be prepared to walk a lot. The animal habitats are very large, so the distance between them is considerable. And the zoo has the distinction of being the first major public place where McDonald's got a foothold on the concession in the early 70s, although apparently the deal was that McD's was NOT permitted to use any logo other than the Metro Zoo's own, so don't go looking for the arches..... If you've a mind, out in the direction of the Kleinburg is Canada's Wonderland, the Ontario equivilent of Six Flags. Enough said. And there is always Niagara Falls. And the Falls now has a 24-hour a day casino, and there is the outlet mall therre.... And if you have a car, and love modern art, there is the Albright Knox Art Gallery in Buffalo...... Maybe you shouldn't have gotten me started. Veggie Restaurants....... I do not know about. Most of the people with whom I hang out are heavily into dead animal flesh.... However, Chinatown (centered around Dundas Street) has some great little hole-in-the-wall joints with extensive menus, and I remember some good veggie dishes...... The sad truth is that some of my favourite hole-in-the wall restaurants have closed since I spent a lot of time in Toronto, and now when I do go, I tend to go to the same places again and again. (For example, the last time I went to visit with friends at the ROM, those little weasels wanted to got to lunch at....MCDonald's. Classless little twerps.) Parking a car in downtown Toronto can be somewhat of a hassle. Yes, you can then get to out of the way places like Kleinburg and the zoo and Stratford, but on the other hand, one must then pay to park the car, to the tune of many $$$$$ per day (Note, however, that a few of the downtown hotels, like the Holiday Inn in back of the New City Hall, include parking in their room rates)...... Is that verbose enough for you?  1,, Summary-line: 14-Sep Brian A. LaMacchia #bal's new contact information... Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08005; Sun, 14 Sep 97 19:01:35 EDT Received: from martigny.ai.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16344; Sun, 14 Sep 97 19:01:17 EDT Received: from farcaster (freeside.ai.mit.edu) by martigny.ai.mit.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA087728037; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:00:37 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970914155802.0138d210@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: bal@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 b4 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:58:02 -0700 To: bal-notify@martigny.ai.mit.edu From: "Brian A. LaMacchia" Subject: bal's new contact information... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *** EOOH *** X-Sender: bal@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 b4 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:58:02 -0700 To: bal-notify@martigny.ai.mit.edu From: "Brian A. LaMacchia" Subject: bal's new contact information... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this message due to mailing list overlap...] Dear friends, As many of you know, last month I left AT&T Labs Research (following the demise of the Public Policy Research group) and accepted a Program Manager position on the Windows NT Security team at Microsoft. (Specifically, I'm helping to build Microsoft's infrastructure for public key cryptography and trust management.) I've just about completed the transition to Seattle and have new contact information; please update your address lists, Rolodexes, Palm Pilots, Daytimers, BBDB emacs lisp, etc., accordingly: Work address: Brian A. LaMacchia Program Manager, Windows NT Security Microsoft Corporation One Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052-6399 (425) 703-9906 (425) 936-7329 (FAX) bal@microsoft.com Mailing address (send physical mail here): 14150 NE 20th St., #246 Bellevue, WA 98007-3700 Home address (should be valid by 9/19/97): 400 Harvard Ave. E., Apt. 201 Seattle, WA 98102-4900 (206) 679-6122 (cell) bal@farcaster.com http://www.farcaster.com/ The cellphone number should be up and running by tomorrow, 9/15/97. I don't have the number yet for home landline phone (it's going to take US West a couple weeks to run the ISDN line), but will pass it along (& post to my .plan file) once I have it. Work and cell both have voicemail. Please continue to send personal e-mail to "bal@farcaster.com"; that's a permanent e-mail address and will always forward to wherever I am. --bal  1,, Summary-line: 23-Sep dagans #G&S&Robots? Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20620; Tue, 23 Sep 97 14:18:12 EDT Received: from [198.137.169.1] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15802; Tue, 23 Sep 97 14:15:39 EDT Received: from PRDCAT.ZYDACRON ([198.137.169.146]) by prdcat.zydacron.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11531) with SMTP id AAA134; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:01:18 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970923181250.0086bb28@198.137.169.1> X-Sender: dagans@198.137.169.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:12:50 -0400 To: Savoyards@MIT.EDU From: dagans@zydacron.com (dagans) Subject: G&S&Robots? Cc: tbunns@MIT.EDU *** EOOH *** X-Sender: dagans@198.137.169.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:12:50 -0400 To: Savoyards@MIT.EDU From: dagans@zydacron.com (dagans) Subject: G&S&Robots? Cc: tbunns@MIT.EDU Singer/actors, If anyone missed the chance to act in Ruddigore, you might like to know that the MTG fall show, Robots, is auditioning tonight from 7-9 on the 3rd floor of the Student Center. Robots, while set far in the future, has a certain G&S flair to it, being lightly comical and very musical. It has one major male, 3 strong female and 3 strong male secondary roles, and 2 choruses of 4 each with individual personalities and lines. I suspect (and, as the writer, intended) that Gilbert and Sullivan fans will enjoy participating. Hope to see you at auditions. Dave Agans ================================================================== David J. Agans VP Engineering Zydacron, Inc. 7 Perimeter Rd, Manchester, N.H. 03103 USA Phone: (603)647-1000 Fax: (603)647-9470 Video: (603)644-0254 E-mail: dagans@zydacron.com  1,, Summary-line: 24-Sep Derek and Heather #The Chocolate Covered Bean Party Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27202; Wed, 24 Sep 97 20:26:04 EDT Received: from INCOMMUNICADO.IHTFP.ORG by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06297; Wed, 24 Sep 97 20:25:01 EDT Received: (from warlord@localhost) by ihtfp.org (8.6.12/DAA950726) id UAA07114; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:24:09 -0400 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:24:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199709250024.UAA07114@ihtfp.org> To: warlord@ihtfp.org, aurora@ihtfp.org From: Derek and Heather , Subject: The Chocolate Covered Bean Party *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:24:09 -0400 To: warlord@ihtfp.org, aurora@ihtfp.org From: Derek and Heather , Subject: The Chocolate Covered Bean Party Heather Harrison and Derek Atkins would like to invite you to The Chocolate Covered Bean Party. No, not THAT Bean (what kind of sick people do you think we are? (No, don't answer that)), Espresso Beans! Of course we'll have other types of food as well (chocolate-covered and otherwise). Who: Bean (not coated in chocolate) and you (and your SO (coated only if you want to, but don't drip on the floor (or the animals (chocolate coated cat-fur isn't funny) (lambda)(x y)(+ x y)))) What: The Chocolate Covered Bean Party Where: Sector 14; 6 Farragut Ave, Somerville (directions to follow) When: Friday, October 3, 1997. Starting at 8pm. Why: Because we like you (even if you're not coated in chocolate). If you're going to stop by, RSVP so we can guess how much chocolate fondue to make. If you have any dietary restrictions, let us know (or feel free to bring something yourself, whether or not you have dietary restrictions). Allergy Allert: We have a dog (Indy, a Yorkshire Terrier) and a cat (Neroon, a Domestic Short-Hair). Sector 14 Address: 6 Farragut Ave Somerville, MA 02144 617 623-0791 Directions to Sector 14: Via T: Take the Red Line to Davis Sq; exit at Holland Ave. Go left and walk down Holland Ave. You will pass Johnny D's, and a playground, the Somerville Parking Czars, and eventually you will reach a fire station at Broadway. This is Teele Sq; take a left onto Broadway and walk about 4 blocks. Farragut Ave is on the left, one block after Endicott. If you reach Garrison, you've gone too far (and are now closer to Abbe's than you are to mine). 6 Farragut is really close to Broadway, on the left side of the street. Via T/Bus: If you're really adventurous, you can take the bus: routes 87 or 88 out of Davis Sq. and into Teele Sq. Then just follow the directions above. Driving: Get to Teele Sq. Which is the corner of Broadway and Holland in Somerville. The other end of Holland is located in Davis Sq. If you come up Holland, take the left onto Broadway and follow it past the VFW and the Bank, then look for streets named Endicott and then Farragut. Farragut is one-way, in the right direction, so turn onto Farragut and park. Stickers are not required for parking on Farragut. If you are coming from Route 16, turn down Broadway (where you see Johnny's Foodmaster), pass the Mutual Gas station. Go two blocks and Farragut will be on your right, just after Garrison St. Take the right onto Farragut and park. The other direction down Broadway is Powderhouse square. Take Broadway from Powderhouse through Teele Sq and then follow the directions above. Via Starfury: If you can get a Starfury, we'll provide you an ample supply of directions. And we want a ride. See you there. If you have any questions, call us. -derek PS: "woof" PPS: "meow" PPPS: This letter brought to you by the letters 'B' and 'S' and the number '17'. Disclaimer: This letter does not represent the views of the residents of Sector 14, nor their pets. No humans were coated in chocolate for the making of this letter. Don't worry, we didn't coat the animals either (remember what we said about chocolate covered cat fur?). The Magic Words are Squeamish Ossifrage. Warning: Chocolate has been shown to cause cancer in laboratory rats. IHTFP. Shake before opening. Fasten, then zip. For best results, squeeze message from bottom and flatten it as you go up. Warning: Water has been shown to cause cancer in laboratory rats. Honk if you're still reading this. Do not look into laser with remaining eye. Contents may have settled during shipping. YMMV. Don't write email after consuming large quantities of Chocolate Covered Beans.  1,, Summary-line: 2-Oct Barry Singer #re: Sullivan percussion (was Composing Practices) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22343; Thu, 2 Oct 97 10:13:58 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28613; Thu, 2 Oct 97 10:13:33 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA23945; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710021407.HAA11203@mail2.exodus.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Barry Singer" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: re: Sullivan percussion (was Composing Practices) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Barry Singer" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: re: Sullivan percussion (was Composing Practices) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum On Wed, 01 Oct 1997 14:45:22, Bruce I. Miller responded: > I am not a trained percussionist, but I am told by those who are that > playing the bass drum/cymbal part well is not easy by any means. To > achieve the right kind of sound produced by a single player, using a bass > drum with cymbal attached, is a dying art. It takes a well tranied and > sensitive musician who is willing and able to achieve the bite asked for in > these parts and yet remain part of the ensemble, and not turn the > orchestration into a percussion concerto. > > The "solution" often tried in these situations is to have a separate player > for bass drum and one for cymbals, or to have a suspended cymbal > used in conjuction with the bass drum. It's just not the same sound. > > Often, the G & S percussionist is asked to give important emphasis at key > moments, sometimes after long stretches of rests. To me, this should be > challenge enough no matter who the percussionist is. Just because > there aren't any mallet parts to equal the opening of Porgy and Bess > doesn't excuse a player from paying attention and contributing his or her > best efforts in the service of the piece. > > Very good points all around. I actually was not clear on the intent of this style of percussion writing -- that is, whether it was designed specifically for a single percussionist, or simply to allow the music to be performed when only one percussionist was available/practical. Since Sullivan was writing for a "pit band", I of course should have assumed the former. And yes, having attempted to play the combined bass drum/cymbal part (during a rehearsal only -- I was assistant MD for a production and the percussionist was absent), I have experienced just how difficult it is to achieve the correct sound and balance when simultaneously handling these two instruments. (To say nothing of the triangle sustains, etc). The percussionists I have worked were sensitive and talented musicians, who in my view understood the style and possessed the requisite skills to play these parts well. They enjoy the artistic aspects of their craft no less than the violinists. I think it is sometimes just a percussionist's general complaint (particularly after a long run of performances) about sitting idle more during Sullivan (or Haydn or Mozart for that matter) than during Gershwin -- even though the skill to "cold-start" from such idle periods is no less important than that needed to play continuously. We may be running this thread into the ground. Thanks for your insights. Barry Singer P.S. Now, on a semi-serious note, why *didn't* Sullivan utilize the mallet instruments? It's easy to imagine the sound of the cascading sixteenths in the intro to "When the night wind howls" played on a xylophone, or the Iolanthe invocation scored with glockenspiel. (Too vulgar perhaps -- leave those cheap devices to Geoffrey Toye!) Were these artistic decisions, or practical ones?  1,, Summary-line: 6-Oct Richard J. Barbalace #packet sniffers Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14128; Mon, 6 Oct 97 14:41:24 EDT Received: from BILL-THE-CAT.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09617; Mon, 6 Oct 97 14:40:09 EDT Received: by bill-the-cat.MIT.EDU (5.x/4.7) id AA22476; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 14:40:01 -0400 Message-Id: <9710061840.AA22476@bill-the-cat.MIT.EDU> To: sipb-office@MIT.EDU Subject: packet sniffers Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 14:40:01 EDT From: "Richard J. Barbalace" *** EOOH *** To: sipb-office@MIT.EDU Subject: packet sniffers Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 14:40:01 EDT From: "Richard J. Barbalace" I've heard several complaints about packet sniffers and other problems on campus, mostly in East Campus and Burton. I'm passing along this message as background on what people have been saying. We should expect to get some questions from users on this. Does I/S know about these attacks? + Richard ------- Forwarded Message To: ec@MIT.EDU Cc: ilu@MIT.EDU, decouto@MIT.EDU, 5west@MIT.EDU Subject: unencrypted telnets Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 12:31:29 EDT From: Eric Sit Hey folks, If you have a computer, and are not using ENCRYPTED telnets, then you are at risk. I already heard of some compromised machines in east campus that hackers have broken into. They have installed sniffers that will sniff your password if they are not encrypted. I believe that if you haven't been using kerberized telnet everytime, your password has probably already been compromised. What you need to install right away is kerberized telnet. you can get this at http://web.mit.edu/is/help/ktelnet/ and install the host explorer and use it to dialup to anywhere, including athena.dialup.mit.edu after that, once you have a SECURE connection, change your password with the passwd command on athena. this is very important - even if you think you don't have any important e-mail/files on athena, you will be compromising the security of mitnet. that is, hackers can use your account to break into other systems... thanks, eric PS - here's more info at the situation in mccgregor - ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark V. Silis" Greetings my fellow macgregor residents. Just in case you don't know already, our dorm has been the victim of numerous attacks from various hackers in the past few weeks. So before i say anything else, i want to say using a secure encrypted connection to athena CHANGE YOUR PASSWORD immediately. Now The attacks have been more severe especially recently. Stolen athena accounts of macgregor residents are being used campus wide to do damgage to other systems. SO PLEASE!!! DON'T read this and say "its just my email and some stupid files i don't care". If someone gets your account YOU are compromising the security of the entire MITnetwork. So once again PLEASE READ THIS! Sorry i know its long. So i will break it up into three parts. Those of you who are using windows and macs to connect to athena, those of you who are using linux, and the conclusion. Please read the section that applies to you and the conclusion at the end. Mac, Windows and Linux Users - - - ---------------------------- - - - ---------------------------- Well here is the story as it stands right now. Hackers have gotten macgregor athena accounts, and various other athena accounts and right now, they are currently using stolen accounts to break into other networks, and to engage in a sort of ping flooding attack on certain irc machines. Basically what this means to you is, if someone breaks into a computer in macgregor, and then uses this attacking method, our network comes to a screeching halt. This happened this past saturday night, in case any of you noticed, everything was extremely slow. It has also been reported that other stolen athena accounts of macgregor residents have been used on the athena dialup machines to engage in these ping flooding attacks as well. Not to mention that they have used stolen accounts and used them to generally spread to other dorm networks and gain passwords on them as well. This is a very serious issue, and you should take notice that if you make an unsafe telnet connection anytime, you are risking your account, even more so these days with the number of already discovered compromised machines. And there are probably more out there that we do not know about. You MUST make every effort to use a secure telnet client. Not only for the security of your own account, but for the security of mitnet in general. Don't think hey its just one account. Because an attacker can take your account and use it to get access to many many more. So nothing is insignificant here. If you are using a standard windwows or mac telnet program you are at risk. If you choose to connect via this method its trivial for any experienced hacker to get your password. So the solution is the following: get and install the kerberized telnet clients for mac or windows. You can obtain them from http://web.mit.edu/is/help/ktelnet/ Just follow the links depending on the machine that you have, and install the program. If you have any problems installing the program please send mail starting tue morning to macgregor-rcc@mit.edu. And i will get to it as soon as i can. Please do not send me email directly. And you may have also noticed that when you now telnet to athena.dialup you may see the following message Warning: this session is NOT encrypted! This new message has been added, in order to make it clear to you that you are putting yourself in danger by typing anything after that. You should not connect this way. Instead install one of the above clients and then connect. Linux Users Only - - - ---------------- - - - ---------------- And for those users in the dorm who are running linux machines, there are some bugs in older versions of linux that allow an attacker to exploit this and gain access to your machine. If you are running older versions of linux ie slackware or redhat 3.0.x you should STRONGLY consider upgrading to redhat-4.0. Info on linux-athena can be found at http://web.mit.edu/linux/www Please note that rcc does not officially support linux. And if you are using a linux machine and allowing remote access via telnet to your machine, make sure that you do have a srvtab, which allows encrypted telnets to your machine. If you do not have one send email to accounts@mit.edu with your machine's name requesting one. And if you are unsure about using linux as a dialup i encourage you to just use the athena.dialup.mit.edu service. With the new machines speed of the connection is no longer really an issue, as it was with the old dec dialup machines. And all linux machine owners should take a look at the following document for a list of some steps to increasing safety on a linux machine http://web.mit.edu/network/unix_security.html One of the major bugs that have been exploited has to do with samba. Which is enabled by default on many linux machines, please unless you use it disable the samba packages. Or upgrade the samba package. The update can be found at ftp://samba.anu.edu.au/pub/samba/samba-1.9.17p2.tar.gz In order to stay informed about problems with linux or new security holes found etc... Please consider subscribing yourself to the following mailing lists linux-announce and linux-help. linux-announce is probably the one that you would be most interested in, as linux-help provides a lot of email traffic, that some users may find cumbersome. And there is the recently created net-defense list which is for discussing things of this nature. To add yourself to anyone of the mailing lists simply do at your athena prompt blanche listname -a your_username And finally if you think that your machine has been hacked into, please take it off the network immediately. And send mail to net-security@mit.edu, and also to macgregor-rcc@mit.edu with all the relevant info. Conclusion - - - ----------- - - - ----------- So in closing i realize that this is a large and long message, and i am sure that its missing somethings. Because i doubt i could cover everything. I just wanted to inform everyone of what was going on, and how we can help correct this situation. I am going to put a copy of this message on the web so you can all refer back to it if you wish. You can find it at http://web.mit.edu/mvsilis/www/rccmsg.txt And i will update everyone when we have some new documentation to point you towards. If you have any questions or comments, or if anyone thinks they have anything useful to add please just email me. Thanks!! Sincerely, Mark V. Silis Macgregor's Residential Computing Consultant - - - ---------------------- Mark V. Silis 450 Memorial Dr. Cambridge, Ma 02139 - - ------- End of Forwarded Message - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message  1,, Summary-line: 7-Oct Diana Burleigh #Peers of Highest Station Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29219; Tue, 7 Oct 97 10:43:58 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02628; Tue, 7 Oct 97 10:43:28 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA09189; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <343AD753.2799@netspace.net.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Diana Burleigh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Peers of Highest Station X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Diana Burleigh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Peers of Highest Station X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Well, Janice, you asked for it. Dukes:can be Royal or non-Royal. Addressed as My Lord Duke or Your Grace Wives Duchesses. Oldest sons take father's second title, other children addressed as Lord or Lady plus Christian name. Coronet surrounded with strawberry leaves (actually they don't look like strawberry leaves but that's heraldic devices for you!) Marquesses (NOT pronounced Markee, that Foreign) Addressed My Lord or My Lord Marquess.Wives Marchionesses Children as Dukes. Coronet strawberry leaves and balls Earls. Addressed My Lord. Wives Countesses Oldest sons take second title, younger sons are Honourables and daughters are Lady (Diana was Lady Diana Spencer, while her father was alive, her brother was Viscount Althorp - second title- and is now the 9th {I think} Earl Spencer) Their coronets have balls (I am sure there must be a politer word but I don't know it) on high spikes Viscounts. Addressed My Lord.Wives Vicountesses Children are all Hons. Coronet has tight row of balls Barons Addressed My Lord,Wives Baronesses Children Hons.Coronets have widely spaced balls There are a very few women who hold titles in their own right. Since 1958 there have also been Life Peers whose title dies with them. Its advantage is that they get to sit in the House of Lords. They are styled Barons or Baronesses, but as they didn't exist in Gilbert's day are not relevant. Robes of the Orders of Chivalry The Most Noble Order of the Garter: Robe, dark blue. They wear a garter round the knee which has the order's motto (Honi soit qui mal y pense - shame on him who evil thinks) and is said to date from a time in 1348 when a Lady lost her garter at court and the King took it from some nobles who were sniggering over it, tied it round his own leg and uttered the line above. The Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle (a Scottish order of course). Robe green The Most Illustrious Order of St Patrick (to which some add but others do not ...) robe sky blue The Most Honourable Order of the Bath: robe crimson There is also The Most Exalted Order of the Star of India, The Most Distinguished Order of St Michael and St George, The Most Eminent Order of The Indian Empire, The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, Knights Bachelor and the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem and I gues we can add The Order of Australia (which like the Order of the British Empire can be given at different levels and has the ability to award Knighthoods and Dames, but has not done so since the early 1980's), it was instituted as an alternative to the Empire decorations in the early 70's. Baronets (and they are not obliged to be bad) have a hereditary title, are addressed as Sir. If Mad Margaret married Despard while he was a baronet she would be Lady Murgatroyd not Lady Margaret. This title only existed in England from the time of James 1 of England and VI of Scotland, therefore none of the Ruddigore ghosts should be dressed earlier than 1603 ( I once almost came to blows with my wardrobe master over this). If you've read this far and understood it, give yourself a pat on the back! You deserve it. Diana  1,, Summary-line: 7-Oct Andrew Crowther #Re: Basil Hood = Oil? Bad Sho! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28075; Tue, 7 Oct 97 14:01:08 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02373; Tue, 7 Oct 97 14:00:38 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA12181; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19971007184757.21176262@pop.brad.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Basil Hood = Oil? Bad Sho! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Basil Hood = Oil? Bad Sho! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) At 07:10 AM 10/7/97 -0400, Michael P. Walters wrote: >Writing lyrics with so many internal rhymes as that must be really quite >difficult. Difficult? Not at all! Observe: It isn't so hard for a bard on guard and given a card of licence To have a good time with rhyme to chime and earn him a dime in my sense. If rhyming is dense, immense nonsense is not an offence to utter, Providing the sound is round, you hound, though the singer is bound to stutter. (That took me about 10 minutes to work out.) I'm not saying these lines are particularly good - they're not - but the point I wanted to make was that internal rhymes are a not very difficult technical exercise for a lyricist - and I have to say it's made much easier if the lyricist doesn't feel bound to make the rhymes make sense. Lines from the Basil Hood lyric like - >>>Joyful gyrate high-rate my rate >>>Unromantic frantic antic >>>Teetotummy rummy slummy - strike me as a bit of a cheat in this respect. Mind you, I quite liked Hood's lyrics for _Merrie England_ when I listened to the recording - they had the virtue of sounding good when sung, which is after all the most important thing. - Andrew. Andrew Crowther 82 the Avenue, A.J.Crowther@bradford.ac.uk Clayton, Bradford, (01274) 882143 West Yorkshire BD14 6RT. Great Britain. Visit Babliophile, my W.S. Gilbert page, at: http://www.student.brad.ac.uk/ajcrowth/babphile.htm "...what is hailed as a new style or a new school in literature often consists of doing as a novelty what a Victorian did long ago as a joke." - G.K. Chesterton, "On Phases of Eccentricity", in _All I Survey_ (1933)  1,, Summary-line: 23-Oct P. D. PARKER #Re: Pineapple Poll Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00341; Thu, 23 Oct 97 06:20:02 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21728; Thu, 23 Oct 97 06:19:27 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA01822; Thu, 23 Oct 199 7 06:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 06:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19971023111614.19173e8e@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: pdp@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Pineapple Poll X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** 7 06:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 06:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: pdp@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Pineapple Poll X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) At 23:07 22/10/97 -0400, you wrote: > >1. I concluded that Mackerras must have just discovered Princess Ida and >(not surprisingly) fell in love with the music. > >2. I imagine that Mackerras must have needed to work closely with the >D'OC (for copyright purposes, if for no other reason). I wonder if the >reason that there are no excerpts from Utopia or Grand Duke in the >ballet is due to a D'OC veto or just that Mackerras didn't know the >music and it was too difficult for him to find out about it. > I can throw a little light on your field of unbounded speculation. Commenting as per your numbering. 1. That could be true for all I know, but I think unlikely. 2. Mackerras did not need permission from the copyright owners (who were not D'Oyly Carte. D'Oyly Carte never owned the copyright in any of the G & S works, only a performing right) as the music copyright expired in 1951. That is 50 years to the next Jan 1st following the composers death. (Since changed). My understanding was that Mackerras approached D'Oyly Carte having already written some parts of his ballet suite. He wanted to be able to see scores or originals which he presumed were in D'Oyly Carte's possession. At that date (1950) D'Oyly Carte did not own or have direct access to many original scores. However the bandparts which they used were reasonably close copies of Sullivan's originals and had never been published as such. IE they were not available for purchase. They did (and still do) have quite a lot of what may be described as errors. (I am not a musicologist and go by what I have been told about that). My father counselled Bridget into letting Mackerras have access to the D'Oyly Carte bandparts and such scores as they had. My dad told me that Mackerras came down to the D'Oyly Carte offices in the Savoy Hotel and spent quite a bit of time in their music library. I was told that he largely re-wrote the ballet from consulting those bandparts and scores. The argument was that they (D'Oyly Carte) could not stop Mackerras and that it would be better to help him do the job properly rather than be obstructive. Mackerras was given complete access and there was no veto placed upon him with regard to Utopia or Grand Duke. Whether the music librarian (Wilf Hambleton, (now deceased) I think at that time) produced or was asked by Mackerras for copies of Utopia or Grand Duke, is another matter. It is pure speculation as to why Mackerras chose not to include music from those operas. You would have to ask him. You must also remember that at the time it was expected that all sorts of jazzed up versions of Sullivan's music would appear following the ending of the copyright. Most of that did not happen because Mackerras did such a good job and whenever a selection from the operas was wanted, Pineapple Poll music was used. >3. An unbounded field of speculation - if he HAD been acquainted with >the music from the last two operas, what bits might he have included in >the ballet? 3. I am not qualified to speculate about this point. >4. Have any Savoynetters been privileged to talk to Mackerras about his >efforts in arranging the ballet music? 4, Good question! It would be nice to have his side of the story. He is still alive! I do remember attending the first night of the ballet at Sadlers Wells in 1951 and being astonished at the intertwining of the themes with the ballet story and Gilbert's words to the music from the operas. It takes a three way thought process, but of course you have to know and recognise each of the themes instantly. The same is true of Cynthia Morey's Sleeping Beauty of Savoy Pantomime. Of course you have to see the ballet as well as hear the music to appreciate this thinking process. I believe there is/was a published video of Pineapple Poll by The Sadlers Wells Royal Ballet that was certainly televised in UK around Xmas of 1981, although I see the copyright date on my own recording is 1979. I did not have a video recorder in 1979. Authors/composers/writers who can put together works which require this three way thinking are rated highly by me. The Sadlers Wells Royal Ballet TV recording was originally done for/by BBC TV from an actual performance at one of the 'Big Top' seasons Cambridge and was introduced by Richard Baker, who is now a Trustee of the D'Oyly Carte Opera Trust. Further to the message from John Atkinson; I understand that the Welsh National Opera series has been abandoned. If I am wrong about that perhaps someone will post the detail. I see Sam Clapp also has this story. Peter D Parker. pdp@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Summary-line: 28-Oct Harry Benford #The G&S Lexicon Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18311; Tue, 28 Oct 97 11:55:40 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05281; Tue, 28 Oct 97 11:54:59 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA06702; Tue, 28 Oct 199 7 11:54:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:54:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: harben@engin.umich.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: harben@engin.umich.edu (Harry Benford) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The G&S Lexicon X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *** EOOH *** 7 11:54:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:54:52 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: harben@engin.umich.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: harben@engin.umich.edu (Harry Benford) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The G&S Lexicon X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, all you enthusiastic and knowledgeable Gasniks! My G&S Lexicon has been out of print for a couple of years and I am now embarking on a new edition, nicknamed in these parts Lex III. I have newly signed onto Savoynet for the express purpose of soliciting from all you good people changes and additions you may be able to suggest relative to the second edition, published in 1991, and easily distinguished by its garish yellow cover. Please use my personal e-mail address shown above, or write to me at : 6 Westbury Court Ann Arbor MI 48105 Make sure to give me your full name so I can make proper acknowledgement in the book. Don't worry about hurting my feelings. I have a tough hide, having been roundly and deservedly criticized for various faults all my life. Cheers! Harry Benford  1, answered,, Summary-line: 6-Nov Bill Schneider #how to get to MIT Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26376; Thu, 6 Nov 97 10:26:31 EST Received: from YANKEE-STADIUM.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07554; Thu, 6 Nov 97 10:25:47 EST Received: from localhost (bschneid@localhost) by yankee-stadium.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05643 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 1997 10:24:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 10:24:31 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Schneider To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: how to get to MIT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 10:24:31 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Schneider To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: how to get to MIT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII check out http://whereis.mit.edu/doc/GettingToMIT.html. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Schneider bschneid@mit.edu Zeta Beta Tau http://web.mit.edu/bschneid/www 58 Manchester Rd. President, MIT Gilbert & Sullivan Players Brookline, MA 02146 MIT Media Lab, Software Agents Group 617-731-2840 check out https://kasbah.media.mit.edu  1,, Summary-line: 9-Nov pcameron #Briefs and Barristers Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08520; Sun, 9 Nov 97 00:18:11 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21034; Sun, 9 Nov 97 00:17:37 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA27526; Sun, 9 Nov 1997 00:17:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 00:17:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3466519C.3BD11F84@enternet.com.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: pcameron@enternet.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: pcameron To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Briefs and Barristers X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 00:17:23 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: pcameron@enternet.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: pcameron To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Briefs and Barristers X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) Hello everyone, It has been a long time since I have felt that I could usefully contribute to one of the interesting threads at Savoynet. Given that I am both a G & S aficionado and a Barrister-at-Law in Sydney, Australia - this might just be my opportunity. I must agree with those of you who have suggested that the Judge's "brief" is a collection of papers rather than those of you who suggest that it is a "briefcase". Firstly, it is quite improper for a fully robed Barrister to carry a briefcase. A Barrister carries a "blue bag" and nothing else. Senior Counsel often have a red bag. Kings or Queens Counsel do not carry anything to Court - that task is left for junior Counsel. This tradition is dying out somewhat at the Sydney Bar. It is considered grossly improper for a Barrister to carry both a blue bag and a briefcase - almost a capital offence! More importantly, a Barrister's brief is the collection of papers which is forwarded to the Barrister by his instructing solicitor/attorney. Traditionally, this is folded lengthwise and has a backsheet which, when folded, is visible from the outside (I hope that this description makes sense). The backsheet sets out the details of the Court in which the matter is proceeding, the names of the parties and the solicitors details. If the fee for the brief is set by the solicitor, it also contains these details - in this case the brief is said to be "marked". The body of the brief contains the "observations for Counsel", an index and the various documents which make up the brief. The "observations for Counsel" is a summary of the matter and issues which the solicitor thinks are important for the Barrister to know. By reading the observations, the Barrister should obtain a quick overview of the case. The brief is then tied with pink ribbon/tape. This is why the Lord Chancellor in Iolanthe sings "Ere I go into Court I will read by brief through.". One of the great criticisms of Barristers is that they "have not read the brief!". The brief is not a "contract" between the solicitor and Barrister. the concept of a contract between them is totally foreign in that context. It is one of the extraordinary facets of the solicitor/Barrister relationship that the Barrister is precluded from suing his instructing solicitor for his fees. If the fees are not secured from the solicitor then in most cases - bad luck! The brief contains (if it is well prepared) all of the necessary witness statements and other documents which Counsel might need to present the case in Court. A Barrister, however, must be briefed by a solicitor to attend Court (this is also commencing to die out at the Sydney Bar). This is vitally important because it is improper for a Barrister to attend Court without a brief. For example, when a new Barrister is admitted to the Bar in Sydney and attends the ceremony in the Banco Court of the Supreme Court of New South Wales - he and his master Barrister invariably take some papers with a backsheet tied with the pink ribbon. Not to do so would be quite improper. I believe that this may well have stemmed from the long tradition of Counsel not "touting" for work. Barristers did not simply hang around the Court hoping to pick up some work. They went there if they had a brief and not otherwise. This, of course, would be a very significant reason for the Judge to acquire a brief in any way possible. If he did not, be would not have been entitled to attend Court and therefore be seen there. The best way to pick up more work has always been to be seen at Court. Whether the Judge bought the brief with a glass of claret or otherwise, it clearly allowed him to appear in Court. I do not know why his instructing solicitor is termed a "booby" but it could be that the brief was so poorly prepared that that is what the Judge thought of him. Alternatively, it could have been that the brief was bought over lunch or with claret (something which, I must admit, does happen at the Sydney Bar). The solicitor might have been a booby by having been taken in by the Judge's fast talk without realizing how junior he, in fact, was. The Judge might have thought that he was a booby for not realizing that he had only just gone to the bar. Anyway, I hope that these few thought help somewhat. Regards Phillip J.Cameron Barrister-at-Law & Tenor/Musical Director  1,, Summary-line: 17-Nov MusikDrama@aol.com #Rehearsal anecdote Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25622; Mon, 17 Nov 97 12:17:33 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04895; Mon, 17 Nov 97 12:16:46 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA03658; Mon, 17 Nov 199 7 12:16:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:16:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <971117121221_561667557@mrin54.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: MusikDrama@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: MusikDrama@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Rehearsal anecdote X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 12:16:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:16:33 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: MusikDrama@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: MusikDrama@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Rehearsal anecdote X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Last night I played piano for a brushup rehearsal of the Lamplighters' Yeomen of the Guard, which is being given two extra performances in Walnut Creek, CA next weekend, following the recent successful run in San Francisco. We were all fairly tired by the end of the evening, and as the rehearsal was being run somewhat informally, I decided to liven things up a bit. As Meryll approached Carruthers in preparation for wooing her (just before "Rapture, Rapture"), I struck up the opening chords to "Willow Titwillow." After the laugh, somebody remarked: "It's the same scene." To which someone else replied: "IS it?" Steve Lichtenstein MusikDrama@aol.com  1,, Summary-line: 18-Nov Michael Paul Nash #Re: strictly for fun Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26275; Tue, 18 Nov 97 07:32:43 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29766; Tue, 18 Nov 97 07:31:57 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA13253; Tue, 18 Nov 199 7 07:31:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 07:31:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Michael Paul Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: strictly for fun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 *** EOOH *** 7 07:31:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 07:31:48 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Michael Paul Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: strictly for fun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 A few one-liners from rehearsals at York University, 1990-91:- DEADEYE: Forebear, nor carry out the scheme you've planned, She is a lady, you a music stand... -------- ZARA: Tan-tan-ta-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra! FITZBATTLEAXE: Trumpet call of the Christmas fairy! -------- DRAGOONS: We soldiers all are queens, we dress in kinky leather, Upon the battle scene, we run away together... -------- DRAGOONS: We've been thrown over, we're aware, But we don't care, but we don't care, There's fish in the sea, no doubt of it, And frankly we don't give a .... -------- DRAGOONS: Oh, horror! Urged by his solicitor, He's actually got the part he auditioned for! -------- BUNTHORNE: Oh Fortune, I am hard... -------- CHORUS: But who is this, whose god-like grace Proclaims he comes from outer space? -------- ONE MEMBER OF AFOREMENTIONED CHORUS (OH ALL RIGHT, ME): But who is this, with god-like grace Playing Pink Floyd tunes on a five-string bass? -------- FLORIAN: Will Prince Hilarion's hopes be badly sighted? -------- WILLIS: Well ma'am, I don't think much of the British soldier who wouldn't inconvenience himself to save a lady in dis dress. (indicating Fairy Queen's dress) -------- and a few others:- LORD CH.: For you dream you are crossing the Channel and tossing about in a steamer from Dover, Which is something between a large bathing machine and a very small second-hand Skoda. -------- LORD CH.: In your shirt and your socks, the black silk with gold cocks... -------- FOREMAN OF THE JURY: We've but one word, m'lord, and that is Rupture. -------- J.W. WELLS: My name is John Wellington Wells, I'm a dealer in magic and smells... -------- DUKE OF P.T.(to Casilda): It's extraordinary what unprepossessing people one can love, if one gives one's mind to it. DUCHESS OF P.T.(to Casilda): I loved your husband. Mike.  1,, Summary-line: 18-Nov Katherine Bryant #Re: strictly for fun -Reply Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09749; Tue, 18 Nov 97 14:13:43 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17219; Tue, 18 Nov 97 14:12:57 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA28492; Tue, 18 Nov 199 7 14:12:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:12:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711181903.OAA22055@kalypso.cybercom.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: klb@cybercom.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Katherine Bryant To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: strictly for fun -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] In-Reply-To: from "Odum Henry M." at Nov 18, 97 0 1:36:49 pm *** EOOH *** 7 14:12:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:12:35 -0500 (EST) Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: klb@cybercom.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Katherine Bryant To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: strictly for fun -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] In-Reply-To: from "Odum Henry M." at Nov 18, 97 0 1:36:49 pm First, allow me to introduce myself (or rather, re-introduce -- but it's been so long since I was on SavoyNet, I might as well be new!)... my name is Katherine Bryant, of Massachusetts (work in Boston, live in Arlington). I've been hearing G&S since I was tiny, and am a third-generation amateur performer (currently in the chorus for the MIT Ruddigore -- hi folks!). Now, on the topic at hand... During one performance of a Yeomen I was in a few years ago, Fairfax stumbled on the "From morn to afternoon" sequence, beginning with the third line instead of the first. He improvised on the spot, ending up with: >From seven o'clock till two, >From two to evening meal, >From evening till twilight, >From twilight through the dawn... .. which made us all wonder just *how* he intended to be spending all that time with Phoebe! In a previous production of Ruddigore -- some years ago at Harvard -- the men's chorus replaced "...ladies of gentle degree, degree" in "Welcome, gentry" with "...women with Harvard degrees, degrees" and allowed as how when they were tired of those, "away to Wellesley we flee, we flee." -- Katherine Bryant klb@cybercom.net "Black and white was so easy for me But shades of grey are the colors I see" -- Billy Joel  1,, Summary-line: 18-Nov Sternenberg, Philip #RE: Mistakes/parodies of lines Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12755; Tue, 18 Nov 97 14:22:39 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17285; Tue, 18 Nov 97 14:21:53 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA28673; Tue, 18 Nov 199 7 14:21:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:21:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9711181834.AA49937@venus.hac.awii.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: PHILIP@msmail.awii.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip (HAC)" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Mistakes/parodies of lines X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) *** EOOH *** 7 14:21:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:21:40 -0500 (EST) Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: PHILIP@msmail.awii.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip (HAC)" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Mistakes/parodies of lines X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Here are a few of MY own: Ah, then they have male poultry -- (Chorus): Male poultry, thou Heaven-born maid! But to seek your child's Captain in marriage (that one in performance!) Darth and Mrs. Vader (IDA Act 3 opening) We are Peers of highest station, Paragons of masturbation. The soldier is a queen And likes the feel of leather Ye wanderers from a mighty State, Oh, teach us how to masturbate. (Hey, if it's good once, it's good twice) This is our joy-day, Uncle Floyd! ("Uncle Floyd" Vivino is a New Jersey TV celebrity who has done an ersatz kiddie show, a la HOWDY DOODY, that has really targeted adults, a la Soupy Sales.) Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@msmail.awii.com  1,, Summary-line: 18-Nov Lisa Berglund #Re: FW: strictly for fun Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12905; Tue, 18 Nov 97 14:23:05 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17448; Tue, 18 Nov 97 14:22:16 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA28774; Tue, 18 Nov 199 7 14:22:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:22:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: lber@conncoll.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Lisa Berglund To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: FW: strictly for fun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: *** EOOH *** 7 14:22:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:22:06 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: lber@conncoll.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Lisa Berglund To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: FW: strictly for fun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Odum Henry M. wrote: > > "Hark! What was that sir?" > > "Why an octopus, fired by a dwarf, unless I'm much mistaken." > > "Strange and at such an hour. What can it mean?" And the version I'VE heard: "Why, an octopus, sired by a dwarf, unless I much mistake." Lisa Berglund lber@conncoll.edu  1,, Summary-line: 18-Nov Wilfredo Sanchez #Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19927; Tue, 18 Nov 97 16:14:34 EST Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26461; Tue, 18 Nov 97 16:13:40 EST Received: from scv4.apple.com (A17-128-100-142.apple.com [17.128.100.142]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16980; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:09:47 -0800 Received: from [17.202.40.130] (sancwi2.apple.com [17.202.40.130]) by scv4.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA12380; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:09:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199711181809.KAA12380@scv4.apple.com> Subject: Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. Date: Tue, 18 Nov 97 10:09:55 -0800 X-Sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: "Elliot Schwartz" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" *** EOOH *** Subject: Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. Date: Tue, 18 Nov 97 10:09:55 -0800 X-Sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: "Elliot Schwartz" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > jered: Is 1GB really enough for Rhapsody? > mjv: meeroh is using a 1GB drive - ask him. You'll have about 400MB free if you use a 1GB drive. You definately want 64MB of RAM. The system underwent no optimization for the Developer release I/S has, and uses a lot more RAM than it needs to. Intel version is the same thing as PPC, except some parts of the kernel. PPC has better support. I heard Rhapsody is actually bloody fast on a G3 Mac, but I don't have one yet. So if you get a new machine for it, you may want to go that route. > pipa: Maybe someone could send out mail describing Rhapsody? > danw: If you're interested in learning about Rhapsody, just ask > someone who's hacking on it. > yandros: Wilfredo Sanchez (tritan) is now working on Rhapsody for > apple. He'd probably be a good person to talk to if you're > serious about hacking. If you've used NeXTStep/OpenStep, you know something about Rhapsody. But it's gone through a lot of changes. It's a BSD Operating System with Mach underneath. The rest of the magic is in the development tools, especially the API in the frameworks (shared libs). I have a strong interest in seeing as much free software supported on Rhapsody as possible, and am putting a few ports online at Apple. I'd love to see MIT services on that list, and am in a position to (try to, anyway) get then into the system proper. I'm currently working on Kerberos 5. Pascal in the Media Lab has someone working on a Zephyr client. If you're interested, I'll give you as much insider help as I can. Send a zephyrgram to tritan. I'm usually logged in. Pascal's group is apparently going all-out on Rhapsody, so there may be people to talk to there. If you want to contribute to the BSD commands, work on NetBSD. I'm pulling source from there. > jered: Is there an X Server for it? > mjv: I don't know. None that I know of. -Fred --- Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174 Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group 2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014  1,, Summary-line: 18-Nov Tom Groves #RE: FW: strictly for fun Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21854; Tue, 18 Nov 97 16:20:28 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25123; Tue, 18 Nov 97 16:19:44 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA00430; Tue, 18 Nov 199 7 16:19:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:19:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: groves@warwick.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Tom Groves To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: FW: strictly for fun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *** EOOH *** 7 16:19:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:19:14 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: groves@warwick.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Tom Groves To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: FW: strictly for fun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" True story: in the Mikado several years ago our Katisha screamed out, "Rose lips, smooth dung!" We immortalized it in a t-shirt. Tom  1,, Summary-line: 19-Nov Eric Peterson #Strictly for fun Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01089; Wed, 19 Nov 97 07:43:57 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06631; Wed, 19 Nov 97 07:43:10 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA07118; Wed, 19 Nov 199 7 07:42:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:42:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711191237.GAA23215@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: "erique"@ix.netcom.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Eric Peterson <"erique"@ix.netcom.com (remove this)> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Strictly for fun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** 7 07:42:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:42:58 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "erique"@ix.netcom.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Eric Peterson <"erique"@ix.netcom.com (remove this)> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Strictly for fun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I) Katherine Bryant wrote: >In a previous production of Ruddigore -- some years ago at Harvard -- the >men's chorus replaced "...ladies of gentle degree, degree" in "Welcome, >gentry" with "...women with Harvard degrees, degrees" and allowed as how >when they were tired of those, "away to Wellesley we flee, we flee." I did most of my G&S during my undergrad career at The College of William and Mary (yes, that's the complete full name of that venerable institution). During a G&S review, the three little maids got a big laugh with: "Three little maids who all unwary Come from The College of William and Mary Free from its genius tutelary". And here's some more - I was reminded while listening to Pinafore last night of "Gaily tripping, lightly slipping, clumsy maidens come up dripping...." And for Patience, we had "Tis Patience! Sappy girl!" and "For I am blithe, but he is gay...that's why I sit sighing night and day..." which was fairly descriptive of the relationship between our Patience and Bunthorne anyway :) - Eric  1,, Summary-line: 19-Nov Mark W. Eichin #Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10839; Wed, 19 Nov 97 10:41:39 EST Received: from tweedledumb.cygnus.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04236; Wed, 19 Nov 97 10:40:41 EST Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tweedledumb.cygnus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id KAA10303; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from eichin@localhost) by paycheck.kitten.gen.ma.us (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id KAA10693; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:34:57 -0500 To: Wilfredo Sanchez Cc: "Elliot Schwartz" , Subject: Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. References: <199711181809.KAA12380@scv4.apple.com> From: eichin@MIT.EDU (Mark W. Eichin) Date: 19 Nov 1997 10:34:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: Wilfredo Sanchez's message of "Tue, 18 Nov 97 10:09:55 -0800" Message-Id: Lines: 3 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.56/Emacs 19.34 *** EOOH *** To: Wilfredo Sanchez Cc: "Elliot Schwartz" , Subject: Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. References: <199711181809.KAA12380@scv4.apple.com> From: eichin@MIT.EDU (Mark W. Eichin) Date: 19 Nov 1997 10:34:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: Wilfredo Sanchez's message of "Tue, 18 Nov 97 10:09:55 -0800" Lines: 3 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.56/Emacs 19.34 Does rhapsody have a packaging system? Or has anyone been clever and ported dpkg or rpm to it? That would probably be a significant help to actually *delivering* free software...  1,, Summary-line: 19-Nov Bill Sommerfeld #Mark Schuldenfrei: Re: mulling cider Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03225; Wed, 19 Nov 97 11:53:57 EST Received: from sommerfeld.ne.mediaone.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12435; Wed, 19 Nov 97 11:53:10 EST Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by orchard.arlington.ma.us (8.8.6/1.34) with SMTP id QAA05729 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:53:02 GMT Message-Id: <199711191653.QAA05729@orchard.arlington.ma.us> To: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: Mark Schuldenfrei: Re: mulling cider Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:53:01 -0500 From: Bill Sommerfeld *** EOOH *** To: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: Mark Schuldenfrei: Re: mulling cider Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:53:01 -0500 From: Bill Sommerfeld since folks here tend to like mulled cider, here's someone else's opinions... ------- Forwarded Message From: Mark Schuldenfrei Message-Id: <199711191352.IAA14375@abel.math.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: mulling cider To: sharons@juliet.ll.mit.edu (Sharon Stanfill) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:52:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: carolingia@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: <199711131925.OAA10970@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> from "Sharon Stanfill" at Nov 13, 97 02:25:29 pm Anyone care to offer a quick and dirty recipe for mulled cider? About how much of what for a gallon at a time - and about how long to get the flavor to come out? As people have suggested...... I prefer to avoid cloves, personally. Cloves have clove oil, and that numbs the tongue. Savory spices that you would put in apple pie seem to be the common theme. Orange peel, cinnamon, nutmeg, mace, allspice, cloves, cardamom, other bark-like things..... Lemon peel is nice, too. Two thoughts, for the uninitiated.... DO NOT USE GROUND SPICES. They are too strong, and they end up in the cup. Use a bouquet garni (aka, wrap the spices in loose cloth, like cheesecloth, and tie the bag shut), to keep from annoying people who want drink, not crunchy. A neat trick, if you want to try it, is to take a whole, fresh, clean lemon or orange, stud the outside with the spices, and float that in the cider as it heats. This also prevents the spices from dropping to the bottom. If you use the "crock pot" trick, fill the pot with cider and spices early in the day, and let it simmer. It's nice. Keep it covered: or the liquid will nicely steam away, taking the flavored oils with it. Use the low heat setting. Real cider, not apple drink, has suspended solids in it: and too much heat will drive the solids out, and to the bottom. This is fine, and while many people try to avoid the yucky seeming part, I find it has the most flavor, and I go for it first. But to avoid, a low heat over a long time is better than a high heat for a short time. Tibor (babbling) ------- End of Forwarded Message  1,, Summary-line: 19-Nov Wilfredo Sanchez #Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05904; Wed, 19 Nov 97 13:40:22 EST Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17038; Wed, 19 Nov 97 13:39:27 EST Received: from scv1.apple.com (A17-128-100-139.apple.com [17.128.100.139]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19202; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:03:06 -0800 Received: from [17.202.40.130] (sancwi2.apple.com [17.202.40.130]) by scv1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA38638; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:03:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199711191803.KAA38638@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 10:03:18 -0800 X-Sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: "Mark W. Eichin" Cc: "Elliot Schwartz" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" *** EOOH *** Subject: Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 10:03:18 -0800 X-Sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: "Mark W. Eichin" Cc: "Elliot Schwartz" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Does rhapsody have a packaging system? Or has anyone been clever and >ported dpkg or rpm to it? That would probably be a significant help >to actually *delivering* free software... Klee Dienes, who owns dpkg for Debian, is working at Apple on a consulting basis on gdb. We've been talking about using dpkg on Rhapsody, and I'm (officially) looking into using it as an option for packaging on the system proper, but we already use NeXT's installer, so I don't know if that will happen. I know Klee has dpkg working, and he's asking me to give some input on what features are missing to make it really useful on Rhapsody (an AppKit UI is one). So yes, that's going to be available. I'm putting free software we'll be shipping with the OS at ftp://ftp.apple.com/devworld/Rhapsody/unsupported_tools/ with source. Use "tar xvfz" and /usr/bin/installer.sh to install on Rhapsody. The Makefiles show you how to make an installer package. -Fred --- Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174 Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group 2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014  1,, Summary-line: 19-Nov Klee Dienes #Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22583; Wed, 19 Nov 97 14:33:50 EST Received: from nhv-ct1-02.ix.netcom.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18279; Wed, 19 Nov 97 14:32:44 EST Received: from localhost [192.168.1.4] (mail) by localhost with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xYFrI-0000HU-00 (Debian); Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:32:20 -0500 Received: from klee by localhost with local (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0xYFrH-0002df-00 (Debian); Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:32:19 -0500 From: Klee Dienes Reply-To: Klee Dienes To: eichin@MIT.EDU (Mark W. Eichin) Cc: Wilfredo Sanchez , "Elliot Schwartz" , Subject: Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. References: <199711181809.KAA12380@scv4.apple.com> Date: 19 Nov 1997 14:32:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: eichin@MIT.EDU's message of 19 Nov 1997 10:34:51 -0500 Message-Id: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.52/XEmacs 20.2 Sender: Klee Dienes *** EOOH *** From: Klee Dienes Reply-To: Klee Dienes To: eichin@MIT.EDU (Mark W. Eichin) Cc: Wilfredo Sanchez , "Elliot Schwartz" , Subject: Re: [11/17/97] You're all under an NDA, but you don't know it. References: <199711181809.KAA12380@scv4.apple.com> Date: 19 Nov 1997 14:32:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: eichin@MIT.EDU's message of 19 Nov 1997 10:34:51 -0500 Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.52/XEmacs 20.2 Sender: Klee Dienes eichin@MIT.EDU (Mark W. Eichin) writes: > Does rhapsody have a packaging system? Or has anyone been clever and > ported dpkg or rpm to it? That would probably be a significant help > to actually *delivering* free software... I've got a Rhapsody port of dpkg (plus a growing number of packages) that I can make available. It comes as a single tar file that creates fake packages from the installed disk image; total is under 5M installed. I've also got the entire Rhapsody build tree in dpkg format, but I'll have to wait until I get back to Apple (Monday) to figure out which parts of it I can distribute and which I can't. Let me know where you'd like me to put the packages and I can upload them today.  1,, Summary-line: 19-Nov Eric Peterson #More fun... Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23398; Wed, 19 Nov 97 20:32:44 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19610; Wed, 19 Nov 97 20:31:57 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA14560; Wed, 19 Nov 199 7 20:31:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:31:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711200126.TAA09765@dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: "erique"@ix.netcom.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Eric Peterson <"erique"@ix.netcom.com (remove this)> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: More fun... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** 7 20:31:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:31:37 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "erique"@ix.netcom.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Eric Peterson <"erique"@ix.netcom.com (remove this)> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: More fun... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I) More stuff - In more than one production of Patience I've seen, Grosvenor's "Reflect, reflect!" is delivered by a kneeling Grosvenor clutching a standing Bunthorne, giving Bunthorne ample motivation for "I must not allow myself to be unmanned..." And an opera-chorus friend of mine (Sue Poliniak, you out there?) who had just done Mabel, told me how she twisted her Major General's mind by letting him sing "Tormented with the anguished dread of falsehood unatoned I lay upon my sleepless bed and tossed and turned and groaned" and jumping in with "To save us all from Satan's power when we had gone astray, oh tidings of comfort and joy.." She said after doing that, you could always see him pause at that moment just to make sure he didn't fall into the wrong song. - Eric ----------------------------------------------- Eric Peterson - erique@(nospam)ix.netcom.com Limericks, Haiku and Bad Fiction Contests at The Toast Point Page! - www.webcom.com/erique -----------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 19-Nov gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu #Frederic of Hollywood. (Was Large B...' Swedes- Strictly Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00691; Wed, 19 Nov 97 21:18:57 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28037; Wed, 19 Nov 97 21:18:09 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA15402; Wed, 19 Nov 199 7 21:17:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:17:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Frederic of Hollywood. (Was Large B...' Swedes- Strictly X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: WordPerfect Office 4.0 *** EOOH *** 7 21:17:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:17:35 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Frederic of Hollywood. (Was Large B...' Swedes- Strictly X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: WordPerfect Office 4.0 Dear SavoyNet, Rica mentioned Baywatch (among other things) in a recent post. Sorry, folks, I'm kinda bored today:-) (Frederic and Chorus of Lifeguardettes) Frederic. Oh, is there not one maiden breast Which does not feel the moral beauty Of staying naturally suppressed As part of women's lifeguard duty? Who would not give up willingly All pulchritudinal ambition. While rescuing unfortunates, Refuse to make an exhibition. It's not an exhibition. Remember, ladies, what I say. Pray do not make a sexy exhibition. Chorus of Lifeguardettes. Alas, it's just our maiden breasts, (Forget all sense of moral beauty), That make the public watch our show, We Barbies all on lifeguard duty! Well, it's been a long day. Bye for now. Gene Gene Leonardi gleonard@wpo.nccu.edu  1,, Summary-line: 21-Nov MusikDrama@aol.com #Re: strictly for fun (WARNING: VULGAR!) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09853; Fri, 21 Nov 97 13:01:01 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18413; Fri, 21 Nov 97 13:00:16 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA10766; Fri, 21 Nov 199 7 13:00:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:00:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <971121125105_832937009@mrin46.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: MusikDrama@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: MusikDrama@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: strictly for fun (WARNING: VULGAR!) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 13:00:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:00:06 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: MusikDrama@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: MusikDrama@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: strictly for fun (WARNING: VULGAR!) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I wrote this perversion about four years ago, and have hesitated to broadcast it till now, but since this thread has already gotten pretty raunchy, I'll chance it. Those among you to whose modest cheeks the blush of shame comes easily, read no further! All you other shameless, boldfaced things out there, scroll down... Frederick: Oh is there not one maiden breast Which does not feel immoral beauty In being nibbled and caressed -- And is, moreover, ripe and fruity? Who would not give up willingly Her pure and virginal condition To place a beefy hunk like me In quite an intimate position?* An exquisite position! To take a macho man like me And ha-a-ave some really great coition? Chorus of Rapturous Maidens: Ah yes, each tender maiden breast Just thrills to the immoral beauty Of being nibbled and caressed, Especially when they're ripe and fruity! Frederick: Oh, is there not one maiden here Whose homely face and bad complexion Have caused all hope to disappear Of ever raising man's erection? ** However plain that face may be With which the heavens may have stuck you, If you will cast your eyes on me, Thou frail and fragile flow'r, I'll... pluck you! However plain you be, If you will cast your eyes on me, However plain you be, I'll fo-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-ondly pluck you!*** * "Intimate position" should be pronounced so as to rhyme with "great coition" **The implications of this line are, on the face of it, obvious: Frederick queries the maidens as to whether any among them considers herself so unsightly as to preclude the possibility of any great public edifice ever being built and dedicated in her honour. However, as the word "raising" is aurally indistinguishable from its own antonym, "razing," this line is open to an unfortunate (so to speak) misconstruction. In order to obviate any possible misunderstanding, then, this line may be altered if desired, in the following manner: .. "Have caused all hope to disappear Of e'er inspiring man's erection." Or possibly, "Of generating (or even 'stimulating') man's erection?" Hmm... perhaps not. *** The vowel sound following the "F" should be of an indeterminate nature, and should be sung through the entire length of the cadenza in one breath, resolving itself into the "O" of "fondly" only at the last moment. Breathe after "ndly," (which comes on the high F), after which "pluck you" is of course sung where the final "love you" appears in the original. Begging everyone's pardon, I'm sure! Fondly (and rather pluckily too), Steve Lichtenstein MusikDrama@aol.com  1,, Summary-line: 26-Nov Rebecca Consentino #Fwd: How to cook a turkey.... (fwd) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26995; Wed, 26 Nov 97 14:48:08 EST Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07687; Wed, 26 Nov 97 14:47:17 EST Received: from localhost (consentr@localhost) by powerpc.emmanuel.edu (8.8.5/8.7) with SMTP id OAA43318; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:43 :43 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:43:43 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: Rebecca Consentino Subject: Fwd: How to cook a turkey.... (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** :43 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:43:43 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: Rebecca Consentino Subject: Fwd: How to cook a turkey.... (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Happy Turkey Day, everyone! Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:40:48 -0500 (EST) From: Aestival@aol.com To: consentr@emmanuel.edu Subject: Fwd: How to cook a turkey.... << HOW TO COOK A TURKEY Step 1: Go buy a turkey Step 2: Take a drink of whiskey (scotch) Step 3: Put turkey in the oven Step 4: Take another 2 drinks of whiskey Step 5: Set the degree at 375 ovens Step 6: Take 3 more whiskeys of drink Step 7: Turn oven the on Step 8: Take 4 whisks of drinky Step 9: Turk the bastey Step 10: Whiskey another bottle of get Step 11: Stick a turkey in the thermometer Step 12: Glass yourself a pour of whiskey Step 13: Bake the whiskey for 4 hours Step 14: Take the oven out of the turkey Step 15: Take the oven out of the turkey Step 16: Floor the turkey up off of the pick Step 17: Turk the carvey Step 18: Get yourself another scottle of botch Step 19: Tet the sable and pour yourself a glass of turkey Step 20: Bless the saying, pass and eat out HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU... >>  1,, Summary-line: 27-Nov Marc Shepherd #Climbing Over Rocky Mountain Research Update (VERY LONG) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29865; Thu, 27 Nov 97 08:33:34 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06687; Thu, 27 Nov 97 08:32:43 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA27622; Thu, 27 Nov 199 7 08:32:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:32:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <347D74ED.E0DB4732@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Climbing Over Rocky Mountain Research Update (VERY LONG) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** 7 08:32:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 08:32:26 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Climbing Over Rocky Mountain Research Update (VERY LONG) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) In June, I posted a lengthy article to Savoynet presenting the case, pro and con, for the proposition that "Climbing Over Rocky Mountain" (CORM) was *not* a last-minute substitution in PIRATES, as the history books tell, but that it was intended all along. I referred to the traditional account as "Happy Accident," and the alternative theory as "Original Intent." The article was as thorough as I could make it, but there were some things I had to guess at, because I had not seen all the sources first-hand. Since then, I've had the opportunity to examine those sources (at the Morgan and British Libraries), and this is an update based on what I found. There's a considerable amount of material in my original article that is still valid, and which I am not going to repeat. For those who didn't receive that article, or who wish to receive it again, please contact me privately, and I'd be happy to send you a copy. The items I researched at the Morgan and British Libraries were: 1. Gilbert's supposed letter to Percy de Strzelecki 2. Sullivan's American diary 3. The Act I manuscript draft 4. The license copy In addition, Michael Walters has researched Percy Strzelecki's letter to that mysterious newspaper "The Clarion," and I have incorporated his researches. Percy de Strzelecki: He Lives ----------------------------- As you may recall, the one and only source for the "Happy Accident" story is a letter Gilbert supposedly wrote to one Percy de Strzelecki in August, 1902. It is here that Gilbert tells us that when Sullivan discovered he had left his Act I sketches behind, about the only number the composer could not recall was the entrance of the ladies' chorus. Luckily, the entrance of the actors in THESPIS fitted the dramatic situation exactly, and so the words and music of the earlier piece were substituted into PIRATES "as they stood." The only known source for this letter is Townley Searle's 1931 Gilbert bibliography; all subsequent authors have been content, it would seem, to accept Searle's transcription as accurate. Yet, there are a number of errors and oddities in this alleged letter (I refer you to my June article for the details), leading some people even to suggest that Searle made it up entirely. Then, in late July, I happened on a footnote in Jane W. Stedman's Gilbert biography stating that the letter resided in the Pierpont Morgan Library's G&S collection. Surely, Stedman wouldn't have made this up, so the matter seemed settled. Still, when I visited the Morgan I asked to see the letter, if only to verify the accuracy of Searle's transcription. To my amazement, the curator said that the letter is not currently in the Morgan Library, nor can he produce any evidence that it has ever been there. He said that the Gilbert letters are thoroughly indexed as to both recipient and date, and this letter is not among them. He was aware of Jane Stedman's reputation for scrupulous accuracy, but he simply could not account for the letter Searle quotes. He said that if it's there at all, it must be misfiled and uncatalogued. I have since written to Jane Stedman to ask if she specifically recollects seeing it, but I have not received a reply. However, the Morgan's collection DOES have two letters from Gilbert to a Percy Strzelecki (note: no 'de' before the surname). Neither of them is the one we want, but I asked to see them nonetheless. The first, dated 23 April 1890, reads as follows: Dear Sir. I enclose one of the very few copies of 'Thespis' that I possess. I was in the United States when it was published, & I had no opportunity of correcting proofs. This will explain the presence of innumerable typographical & other errors. Yours faithfully W. S. Gilbert. In "The First Night Gilbert & Sullivan," Reginald Allen thoroughly debunks Gilbert's claim to have been out of the country at this time, as does Terence Rees in his THESPIS book, but I'll not linger on the story here. See Allen and Rees for details. The second Strzelecki letter, dated 2 July 1907, is obviously in response to a letter of congratulations on Gilbert's knighthood. While not specifically relevant to the CORM discussion, it is interesting and witty enough to be worth quoting: Dear Mr. Strzelecki: Thank you heartily for your very kind & cordial words of congratulation. I wish I thought I deserved all the good things you say concerning me. Perhaps it's as well that I don't. Very truly yours W. S. Gilbert. This letter is extremely difficult to read; it is undoubtedly one of literally hundreds that Gilbert would have written in a short time span, and obviously he was dashing them off as fast as he could. The Morgan also has the envelope that this letter came in. It is postmarked 3 July 1902 and addressed as follows: Percy Strzelecki Esq 43 Fern Arlmore Diamond Newcastle on Tyne I had great difficulty parsing the address. Fraser Charlton, who lives in Newcastle, said that if "Arlmore" is "Avenue" and "Diamond" is "Jesmond," then this is a plausible Newcastle address for the year 1902. After I had looked at these two letters, the curator returned to me with a Carroll Wilson card catalog entry dating from the 1970s, indicating that the *envelope* of Gilbert's famous 1902 letter to Percy "de" Strzelecki, but not the letter itself, resides at the Morgan. (Carroll Wilson, for those who don't know, is one of the principal founders of what is now the Morgan collection.) Unless the letter itself turns up, we won't know if Townley Searle's transcription of it is accurate. However, it *does* seem clear that: -- There was such a person as Percy Strzelecki -- He had a more than casual interest in THESPIS -- He and Gilbert were at least occasional correspondents -- The 1902 letter, even though we don't have it, is not made up. The two letters quoted above are the only Gilbert-to-Strzelecki letters that we know about, but it seems reasonable to assume that there were others. Gilbert is not likely to have sent Strzelecki a copy of "one of the few" THESPIS libretti that he possessed if the 1890 letter was their first correspondence. The theory of Original Intent never depended on the 1902 Percy Strzelecki letter being proved a fake; indeed, I was always skeptical of claims that Searle had invented it. In my June article, I presented several plausible explanations how that letter, assuming it to be genuine, could be squared with Original Intent, and I shall not repeat them here. The Clarion ----------- Gilbert's 1902 letter to Percy Strzelecki was a response to a letter Strzelecki supposedly wrote to the periodical "The Clarion." This was clearly not a widely-circulated periodical. Michael Walters told me that he had never heard of it, and Jane Stedman does not mention it among the long list of periodicals she consulted for her Gilbert biography. What follows is Michael's report of a Saturday trip to the Newpaper Library, Colindale, which houses the newspaper collection of the British Library: The Clarion was a London paper, except from 1891-1893, when it was published in Manchester. It ran from 1844-? (uncertain from the catalogue) and from 1891-1932. It was apparently a paper of somewhat limited circulation, and its readers rather regarded themselves as members of an exclusive club -- the editor addressed readers as "Clarionettes", which explains an otherwise obscure comment in Strzelecki's letter. It is possible that Strzelecki and Gilbert might have encountered each other as readers of this paper. Gilbert implies in the letter reproduced by Searle that he had read Strzelecki's letter in The Clarion. It appeared to be largely a political paper, and the very last paper where I would have expected to find a letter about THESPIS. However, it also had a literary column, and Strzlecki's letter was as a result of a paragraph which appeared in this column on Friday 16th May 1902. During this year, the only year he looked at, it was a weekly paper, published on Fridays, but I don't know if this applied throughout its run. The column is called "In the Library," by Nunquam. Amidst a lengthy 4-column article on varied literary topics, and after quoting a long list of literary figures who had died comparatively recently, he goes on: All these, and many more, have been lost to the world within the narrow compass of my days. Yes, it makes one feel old. For I can remember the literary dawn of men now looked upon as veterans. I can, for instance, remember W. S. Gilbert's first Bab ballads, in the pre-Savoyard period. I can remember seeing a comic opera -- called a burlesque -- written by Gilbert and composed by Sullivan, many years prior to Trial by Jury. It was called "Thespis: or The Gods Grown Old" and was played at the Gaiety about '71 or '72. Toole played Thespis and Nellie Farren played Mercury. Where was Dangle then? [I don't know who this refers to. --MPW] And there was a song in it called "The Affable Railway Director", with a typical Sullivan chorus and the ringing of a railway bell. I wonder why the Savoy management do not look Thespis up. It was both pretty and clever. Strzelecki's letter appeared on Friday June 13, 1902. Dear Sir, I have just been reading Nunquam's "In the Library" of May 16th, wherein he alludes to his having seen the first comic opera written by the two famous collaborators, Messrs. Gilbert and Sullivan. I wonder how many there are at present living who saw it? It ran, I believe, for only a fortnight. The music, I was informed by Messrs. Chappell and Co. some 12 years ago, was never published. "Nor is it ever likely to be printed", they added -- which is a pity. [This comment implies that they had a copy of the score in their possession at that time. --MPW]. As Nunquam says, I wonder why the Savoy management do not look that Thespis up? Our Mr. Dangle knows his Gilbert well -- as do, in fact, most of the noble army of Clarionettes -- but I should be very much astonished if even that great critic, that mine of information relating to all things theatrical, ever saw or perused the book of Thespis. "Thespis; or, The Gods Grown Old: An Entirely Original Grotesques [sic] Opera, in two Acts, with Original Music by Arthur Sullivan" to give it its full title, was produced, under the management of Mr. J. Hollingshead, on December 23rd, 1871 -- so Nunquam is pretty correct in his dates; but there is no mention of it being called a burlesque so far as the book goes. [Then follows one and a half columns (!) in which he gives the plot of Thespis in detail. I didn't copy this as it says nothing we don't already know, except that his only reference to CORM, comes when he mentions "Little Maid of Arcadee". He says:- With the exception of Climbing Over Rocky Mountains, it appears to be the only song out of the opera that has survived -- at least as far as I am aware. I have heard "Little Maid of Arcadee" sung a few times during the last 10 or 12 years. [The letter concluded:-] Altogether, the opera, though short, is an amusing one, and if the music be at all up to Sullivan's average it should go well were it to be revived. As the first of the Gilbert and Sullivan series of operas, it possesses an interest that is more than common. What has Gillbert to say upon the matter? Repeating Nunquam's query, "Why don't the Savoy management look that Thespis up?" Yours etc., Percy Strzelecki. --------------------------- Here, it seems, is absolute confirmation that there was no "de" in the middle of the man's name. As Michael points out, the odd thing is that nowhere does Strzelecki suggest that CORM was put in because it was too good to lose, as stated in the famous letter, although there could be private correspondence between the two that we don't know about. Michael says that he searched the pages of "The Clarion" to the end of September, but he found no reply from Gilbert. (The letter Searle prints is from August, 1902.) Michael observes that whereas he had previously suggested that it was the sort of thing Gilbert would have replied to publicly, Strzelecki's published letter was actually quite uncontroversial, so there is no reason why Gilbert would have replied in print. In the letter Searle quotes, Gilbert points out that THESPIS "was in no sense a failure although it achieved no considerable success. I believe it ran about seven nights--a fair run in those days." Bruce Miller had speculated that "seven" was a mistranscription of "seventy," and Strzelecki's letter to "The Clarion" makes this more likely. Strzelecki recalls its run as being a fortnight, and Gilbert is highly unlikely to have revised this estimate *downward*. Sullivan's American Diary ------------------------- The bulk of Sullivan's diaries reside at the Beinecke Rare Book & Manuscript Library at Yale University. However, one volume of them, the first, resides at the Morgan. This volume covers the period of Sullivan's 1879-1880 trip to America. The first date recorded is December 8, 1879. I read carefully every entry up to, and past, the premiere of PIRATES, and nowhere does Sullivan mention having left his Act I sketches behind in England. We can be sure that this happened, because he twice mentions it in letters to his mother. Yet, given the enormous amount of detail included in the diary, it seems certain that the diary would have recorded this catastrophe had he discovered it on or after December 8th. In my June article, I provided a strong circumstantial case that the sketches were found missing on or about December 6, 1879. The diary certainly does not contradict this supposition, and perhaps it even reinforces it. Why does a man who has never kept a diary suddenly start one? Surely, there is a spark that prompts it. Could it be that the shock of finding his sketches missing was the impetus? I had hoped to find more details about specific musical numbers in Sullivan's diary, but unfortunately there are few. There's certainly NOT any mention of CORM, which certainly supports (without proving) the argument that the decision to reuse THESPIS material was made earlier. On December 9th, just a day after the diary begins, he notes that he sent the score of Act II off to England--evidently "clearing the decks," as it were, to concentrate on Act I. On that same day, he notes that Gilbert came over to "arrange changes in [the] 2nd Act," but he doesn't tell us what those were. On December 17th, he wrote Ruth's Act I song and the Act II trio. That same day, Act I was sent off to England (for the Paignton performance). He began scoring on December 18th. No specific musical numbers are mentioned on any of the intervening days. On December 30th is the famous entry in which he says that he, Clay, Cellier and Gilbert worked on copying out the overture. On January 5th, he notes a "rehearsal at theatre for cuts," without any indication of what the cuts were. Sullivan's diary has been heavily excerpted in a number of books, so there is no need to recount here exactly what rehearsals were held on what days. However, what strikes me most is that, as hard as he worked, Sullivan found time during the month of December for many other activities. He conducted PINAFORE numerous times, attended the premiere of Gilbert & Clay's PRINCESS TOTO, and maintained an active social life. In the meantime, he was up till 3 or 4 a.m. most nights working on the new opera. For years, I had suspected that there was more than one shipment of PIRATES performing materials from America to England, and here we have the proof: Sullivan tells us he sent Act II on December 8th, and Act I on December 17th. We know that IF the license copy was sent from America, it could not have been sent on the 17th, because that shipment arrived after the license copy was filed. However, the we can't yet dismiss that the license copy was sent on the 8th: There is no good reason to imagine that it was sent any *earlier* than that. And, it was almost certainly NOT sent much later than that, for it is simply too distant from the final version of the opera. So, the necessary inquiry is whether the license copy could have been sent from America to England--possibly along with the score of Act II--on or about December 8th, 1879. Gilbert's Manuscript Draft of Act I ----------------------------------- As I reported in my June article, the Morgan Library has a draft of Act I, in Gilbert's hand, which was found amongst Sullivan's papers at his death. In June, the only part of this manuscript that I had seen was the one page reproduced in Reginald Allen and Gale D'Luhy's "Sir Arthur Sullivan: Composer and Personage." In July, I visited the Morgan and made a full transcript of all thirty-one pages. Hereinafter, as in my June article, I refer to this manuscript draft as "MD". I had supposed that Gilbert prepared MD specifically for Sullivan's benefit, when the composer discovered that he had left his Act I sketches behind in England. In fact, the manuscript will not sustain this interpretation. MD has all the dialogue, and many pages have both music *and* dialogue on them. It includes detailed stage directions; in many cases, these are written in one type of ink, then canceled or overwritten in another type of ink. Throughout MD, Gilbert has written small stage pictures, showing the positions of characters on the stage. Penciled-in X's on the page (both in musical and in dialogue passages) indicate where characters are supposed to cross from one side of the stage to another. Gilbert would not have written all of this in a manuscript intended solely for Sullivan's consumption. I had also imagined that the manuscript was a more-or-less "fair copy" of Act I, but I am wrong again. In fact, it is a conflation of four or more states and must surely have evolved over a period of many weeks or months. Indeed, it seems to be Gilbert's own working copy of the opera, and only by the luckiest of accidents are we so fortunate that it survived. Gilbert must have had draft copies like this for *all* of his operas, and if this manuscript is any guide, we are so much the poorer that no others like it have come down to us. The manuscript consists of thirty-one unbound A4 sheets. There is a title page and a d.p. page; the remaining sheets are numbered 1 to 29. About half the pages were once part of an earlier draft, the original page numbers having been crossed out and replaced by numbers in the present 29-page sequence. The other half of the pages just have one number. Pages from the two drafts go back and forth: five of the "newer" pages, then three of the older ones, then two newer ones, then five older ones, and so forth. On all of the "older" pages, i.e., those having an original page number and a corrected page number, the base text is written in a crisp black ink. (By "base text", I mean the text that was first written on the page, before any corrections or cancellations.) On all of the "newer" pages, the base text is written in a muddy brownish ink. Many of the older pages have overlaid corrections in the newer ink, but never vice versa. It is likely that an expert could discern even more types of inks than these two. In a number of cases, I thought I perceived a third, or even a fourth, base ink. However, given my lack of expertise in the ink department, I was reluctant to place too much stock in these observations. What is immediately clear, based on the page numbering, is that there was an earlier draft, about half of which was discarded and replaced by pages in the "newer" ink. I was tempted to assume that the black ink corresponded to material Gilbert brought with him from England, and the brown ink to material he wrote in New York, but there is no proof of this. CORM appears in MD in the darker ("older") ink. As originally written (that is, before corrections), the text matches the license copy (LC) exactly, even to the point of using "lads and lasses" (as in THESPIS) rather than "little lasses." There are solos for all four principal daughters (Mabel, Edith, Kate, Isabel), with the original captions canceled and replaced with the familiar ones. In some cases, Gilbert changed his mind more than once about who would be singing what passages. Similarly, in the ensuing dialogue, the original captions include Mabel, and these are replaced also. CORM is preceded by the chorus "With timid step and watchful eye" (see Bradley for the full text). This is stroked out. To the right of it are the words, "Qy -- this may be dispensed with." Curiously, this too is stroked out, in what is clearly the "lighter" (newer) ink. MD was obviously a working draft, with material continuously added and stricken over a period of time. If there is anyone who believed that these operas flowed seamlessly from Gilbert's brain, this manuscript demolishes that notion. This is Gilbert in his laboratory, and he revises relentlessly. Most pages, particularly those in the "older" ink, have multiple layers of corrections and additions on them--in the "older" ink, the "newer" ink, and in pencil also. Stage directions written in the margin are often in pencil, suggesting that Gilbert concentrated first on getting the text the way he wanted it, and only then went back and roughed out the staging. Temporal Relationship between LC and MD --------------------------------------- Readers may recall from my June article that there are some passages in the license copy (LC) that differ markedly from the opera as we know it today. In LC, the Pirate King is a subservient figure, doing chores and taking orders from the rest of the pirates. LC also has references to Mabel's blemishes and "indifferent complexion." Not only are these thoughts absent in MD, but the pages where this material would appear are written in the "newer" ink. As shown by the heavy corrections on some of the pages, Gilbert preferred to keep working with the draft he had, but where the changes were sufficiently complex, he would simply throw out the offending pages and start again. It is impossible precisely to date the manuscript, but there is obviously a passage of time between the writing of the "older" pages and the "newer" ones. Had it merely been the case of Gilbert finishing one bottle of ink and opening a new one, we would not expect the change of ink color to bear any relationship to the textual evolution of the opera--the color would change at whatever point the old bottle happened to run dry. Here, the pages in the lighter color correspond exactly to those pages where earlier thoughts were discarded. While there are many passages in LC that clearly predate anything in MD's current state, there are two significant canceled passages in MD that appear to predate LC. The first of these is Frederic's solo, "Oh is there not one maiden breast." On the relevant page, as originally written, the solo goes: "Oh do not spurn the pirate's tear, | Nor deem his grief unreal & frothy...." (The full verse is reproduced in Leslie Baily's "The Gilbert and Sullivan Book.") Later on, Gilbert stroked out the original lines and wrote the familiar words in tiny letters, in the spaces between the lines of the verse he first wrote. Since the original verse, "Oh do not spurn the pirate's tear," is very near the top of a page, it's safe to assume that Gilbert's second thought was NOT immediate; had it been, he would have just discarded that page and started over again. Since LC has "Oh is there not one maiden breast," we can say with some assurance that this page of MD predates LC. Unfortunately, the cancellation of the original verse and the writing of the new are in the same dark ink (i.e., the "older" ink), so no further inferences are possible. There is a second substantial passage in MD that predates LC. After the brief chorus, "For he is a Major-General," the Major-General sings a song, "I'm a warrior as bold | Tarantara! tarantara! | As Hector was of old-- | Tarantara...." The song fits perfectly the meter of "When the foeman bares his steel." I wasn't sure where to fit this song in the opera's development until I found the following August 7, 1879, letter from Gilbert to Sullivan, which is quoted in Sydney Dark and Roland Grey's "W. S. Gilbert: His Life and Letters": I have broken the neck of Act II and see my way clearly to the end. I think it comes out very well. By the way, I have made great use of the 'Tarantara' business in Act II. The police always sing 'Tarantara' when they desire to work their courage to the sticking-point. They are naturally timid, but through the agency of this talisman they are enabled to acquit themselves well when concealed. In Act II, when the robbers [sic] approach, their courage begins to fail them, but recourse to 'Tarantara' (pianissimo) has the desired effect. I mention this that you may bear it in mind in setting the General's 'Tarantara' song. I mean that it may be treated as an important feature and not as a mere incidental effect. I need not say that this is a mere suggestion. If you don't like it, it won't be done. The letter seems to suggest that the "tarantara" idea originated in Act I, its use in Act II being later idea. However, the collaborators evidently concluded that it would steal the police' thunder if the the device was prefigured in Act I, and so the General's use of it wisely was dropped. "I'm a warrior as bold" fills up most of a page. It is firmly crossed out--apparently multiple times, with different writing implements, so maybe the authors went back and forth about whether to keep it. The familiar patter song then begins on the next page. Whether Gilbert ever imagined using both songs is difficult to say. The pages containing the patter song, while still in the "older" ink, were not necessarily inserted at the same time as "I'm a warrior as bold." However, Gilbert could well have been using PINAFORE as a model, where Sir Joseph has two songs in succession ("I am the monarch of the sea" and "When I was a lad"). The presence of two ink colors establishes that the MD text is a conflation of at least two states of the opera, not counting the multiple layers of corrections, which themselves undoubtedly were made at more than one time. Yet, a comparison of MD and LC, reveals that an even earlier draft originally existed. For example, on the current p. 6 of the draft (original p. 4), Frederic says: But this afternoon my obligation ceases. Individually, I love you all with affection unspeakable, but collectively I look upon you with a disgust that amounts to absolute detestation. Oh pity me, my beloved friends, for such is my sense of duty, that once out of my indentures, I shall feel myself bound to devote myself, heart & soul, to your extermination! In LC, he says: But tomorrow my obligation ceases. Personally I love you -- but professionally I abhor you -- As it was my duty to serve you faithfully when I was your apprentice so it will be my duty to devote myself heart & soul, to your extermination, now that I am out of my indentures.... The dialogue goes on in LC in a considerably different vein from that found in MD. So, even though this is one of MD's "older" pages, the LC text must have been copied from a predecessor text that no longer survives. Similar examples can be found on many of MD's older pages. In some cases, the relationship between the MD and LC texts is less clear. On MD's current p. 9 (original p. 13), Frederic says to Ruth, "But what do you think OF yourself?" [Emphasis added.] Later on this page comes the stage direction, "Chorus of girls heard in the distance 'Climbing over rocky Mountain'...." In LC, Fred says, "But what do you think yourself," and the stage direction says "...in the EXTREME distance...." [Emphasis added.] These differences are subtle enough that copyist errors could have accounted for them, although I rather suspect that, as with some of the other pages, LC was copied from an earlier text now lost. The Major-General's patter song presents an interesting case: LC and MD match exactly, except that MD has "modern Major-Gineral [sic]" throughout, and LC has "modern Major-General". Here again, the copyist might simply have misread the text he was copying from. However, given the lack of corrections of any kind on these pages, I have to assume that they were copied from an earlier (messier) draft. To summarize the case so far, from MD we can discern at least four states of the opera: 1. A very early state, which included "Oh do not spurn the pirate's tear" and "I'm a warrior as bold." 2. The LC state 3. An intermediate state, which included all the pages in MD's "older" ink, but none of those in the "newer" ink. The older pages got their original page numbers at this point. 4. MD's final state, in which the newer pages were substituted and the older ones renumbered. Of course, it is impossible after all these years to know exactly when all the corrections and cancellations were written in, so the text may have had even more states than this, but these are the four that can be inferred with some confidence. Evolution of the Opera after MD's Final State --------------------------------------------- At the point when MD went into Sullivan's hands, Act I was by no means complete. Page 3 of the manuscript is completely blank except for a caption at the top of the page: "Song. Ruth." We know that this is one of the last numbers Sullivan composed, as he mentions it in his diary entry for December 17th. Moreover, it is one of the numbers that changed radically from LC (where it was a duet for Ruth and Frederic). Evidently, Gilbert gave Sullivan the lyrics for this song on a separate sheet that no longer survives. Similarly, at the bottom of p. 7 are the words "concerted piece" where the Pirate King's song would go. There is no song there, but p. 8 is entirely blank except for the page number. This, again, is a song whose form in LC is considerably different. Page 28, the last page that has any substantive content, is numbered only in a very light pencil, and in a different handwriting. My assumption is that, after Gilbert gave Sullivan the manuscript, he sent over an extra page with a new ending for Act I, which the composer added to the manuscript and numbered. Page 29 is entirely blank except for the page number, which like the preceding page is written in a very light pencil. Why he bothered to number and save a blank page is beyond me. It is possible that the numbers were added by someone else, but that still doesn't explain why a blank page was saved. Revisions to Act I continued. Even in MD's "final" state, there are many differences, too numerous to mention, between the text presented there and the opera's final shape. One worth quoting is an ensemble after "Poor wandering one," in which Mabel sings: "Although I am, by judges keen | Esteemed a beauty, | My greatest charm has always been | A sense of duty!" Frederic sings, in parallel to this, different words expressing the same idea, while the girls repeat a version their earlier verse, "The question is, had he not been | A thing of beauty...." So, Gilbert had completely rethought his approach to Mabel, from apologizing for her plainness (in LC) to extolling her beauty (in MD). Sections of the Manuscript -------------------------- The MD text as it now stands is a hodge-podge. Yet, it is not difficult to divide the manuscript into a series of "sections" comprising pages that were originally written at the same time. When a page ends in the middle of a verse, and the following page begins with the continuation of that verse, and the pages also are in the same shade of ink and are paginated consistently, it is no great leap to assume that they were created together. Where a sentence begins on one page and ends on another, this assumption is even easier to make. Conversely, the sutures between "sections" are equally easy to perceive, even when there is no change in ink color to guide us. For example, at the bottom of the page where the Major-General's patter song ends, there are two lines of dialogue that begin like this: "Major-General: And now that you know who I am, may I ask what you are doing with my daughters?" These lines are crossed out, and the next page begins the dialogue again, with the more familiar version, "And now that I've introduced myself, I should like to have some idea of what's going on." The two pages are both in the darker (older) ink, but I thought I perceived a slight difference in the ink color. I would have been hesitant to rely on this, but the two canceled lines at the bottom of the first page suggest that Gilbert had written out the dialogue one way, and then did a rewrite later on. There are other places in the manuscript where earlier versions of a passage appear at the bottom of one page and are rewritten on the next, but usually the change in ink color is so dramatic that there can be no doubt they were written at different times. Lastly, there are also cases where a page is only partially used up, either because Gilbert was leaving room for material to be inserted later, or because a replacement section didn't amount to a full page. It is useful to describe the four-page section in which CORM falls: 1. A page containing "With timid step and watchful eye," followed by "Climbing over rocky mountain," up to the chorus rejoinder "Hail it as a true ally | Though it perish by & bye." 2. The remainder of the chorus, and the first three lines of the ensuing dialogue. 3. The remainder of the dialogue, and the ensuing musical sequence up to "And to that aid [sic], oh pure & peerless maidens." 4. "Oh blushing buds of ever blooming beauty" through the end of Frederic's aria. The following page, which begins with the "Not one? | No no, not one!" sequence, is in the lighter (newer) ink, and thus begins a new section. This is to be expected, because the next number is "Poor wandering one," which is not in LC, and which we know was a comparatively late addition to the opera. LC and MD have very different versions of "This evening I renounce my vile profession," suggesting that the section, as a whole, could not have been a source for LC, but must be a rewrite of an earlier text now lost. It is, of course, conceivable that only the third and fourth pages of the section were rewritten, and because the ink color does not change, the "suture" between sections is not evident. However, given the obvious haste in Gilbert's other New York revisions, I cannot believe that he would rewrite two whole pages when only a few lines had changed. Sullivan's Contribution to MD ----------------------------- In my June article, I mentioned that the page of MD that is reproduced in Allen/D'Luhy has marginal notes in Sullivan's hand proposing the musical setting; in some cases, these notes do not agree with the eventual setting. A number of other pages in the MD text are also like this. Most mysteriously, next to "Oh is there not one maiden breast," Sullivan has written: "3/4 mod | See note in Pinafore". The word "mod" could be short for "moderato". The word "note" is extremely unclear and could also be "duet". I showed it to the Morgan Library's curator, and neither he nor I was sure. But, the word "Pinafore" is quite clear: what part of PINAFORE could the composer be referring to? Next to the passage "Did ever maiden wake | From dream of homely duty," Sullivan has written "C 3/4". Next to "Oh men of dark and dismal fate," Sullivan has written a lower-case "g". Next to "If pity you can feel | Leave me my sole remaining joy," Sullivan has written "Eb common time." This is crossed out and replaced with a lower-case "g". A vertical line indicates that this applies to everything from that point to the bottom of the page (i.e., the last "Poor fellow"). Next to the deleted number "I'm a warrior as bold," Sullivan has written what appears to be the word "moderato," and below that a "C". Why would MD be in Sullivan's possession? It is clear from the foregoing evidence that Sullivan used it to compose (more accurately, to REcompose) Act I. Sullivan's discovery that his sketches were missing must have come in the midst of a major rewrite, thus accounting for the absence of Ruth's and the Pirate King's songs. However, if Gilbert gave Sullivan his working copy of Act I, then what was Gilbert himself using? The librettist would have needed a copy for his own purposes (e.g., to run rehearsals). That MD ended up with Sullivan strongly suggests that Gilbert didn't need it back again. A clue is provided by libretto 103833 in the Morgan Library, which appears to be page proofs of an abandoned American first edition. It matches the actual first edition in typography and textual content, but the line widths and page heights are different, establishing 103833 as a distinct setting of type. The first edition was not published until about October, 1880--nearly a year after opening night--and publishers in those days didn't keep metal type standing indefinitely. So, it is my interpretation that when the triumvirate decided not to publish immediately, the type setting was abandoned and had to be reset in October. It is well known that Gilbert preferred to go to type as early as possible, so that changes could be distributed efficiently to performers and stage managers. There were also four touring companies to prepare, and the Paignton performance to worry about. Gilbert recalled years later that the Paignton cast had been given printed libretti. Allen says that he doubts this (mainly because no libretto from that performance has ever turned up), but in fact it makes perfect sense. It is difficult to imagine Carte hiring legions of copyists to prepare the material by hand, when printed copies could be made so much more cheaply. If a printed libretto were already available, Gilbert would have had no reason to give Sullivan a messy, handwritten draft. But, if the printed libretto were still in preparation, Gilbert's own working copy would have been the best text that he could give Sullivan. And, if the first printer's proof came back in the meantime, *that* would have become Gilbert's working copy. I admit that I am piling a few suppositions on top of each other, but the date when it appears Sullivan found his sketches missing--December 6th or so--is also about the time when Gilbert would have been starting rehearsals, which is therefore when the first printed copies of the libretto would have been needed. So, all of the elements do seem to fit together. In any event, had MD still been Gilbert's working copy, I have to imagine that Gilbert would have needed it back, and that it therefore wouldn't have been found amongst Sullivan's papers. MD and CORM ----------- The state of the MD text strongly suggests that CORM was part of this manuscript *before* Sullivan discovered that he had lost his sketches, and was NOT a last-minute substitution. At the point when the composer received MD, he obviously had not completed "recomposing" the act, as evidenced by his marginal scribbling. Yet, the opera was far enough along that many passages in LC had already been discarded. CORM, however, is in both LC and MD. If the traditional account were true, you would expect CORM to be shoe-horned into the manuscript, and to be on a page or pages all by itself. You would not expect to find it part of a larger section containing other material, such as dialogue, that had no need of rewriting. You also would NOT expect to find the stage direction several pages earlier, "Chorus of girls heard in the distance 'Climbing over rocky Mountain'...." If CORM had been an emergency substitution, Gilbert certainly would have had no reason to rewrite this whole page, just to change a stage direction. Rather, he would have written in a correction, as he did on so many other pages of the manuscript. Given all these factors, CORM clearly was NOT a late addition to the present MD draft, but was part of an earlier draft, most of which no longer survives. By itself, this discovery casts grave doubts on "Happy Accident" but does not fully disprove it, for the sequence of events *could* have run something like this: 1. Sullivan discovers that his Act I sketches are missing. 2. Gilbert gives Sullivan an early draft of Act I, which he starts to work on. 3. The composer reports that he is having trouble with the entrance of the ladies' chorus. They agree to substitute CORM. They further agree that Sullivan will focus on finishing Act II, while Gilbert continues to work on Act I. 4. At some point, the libretto reaches the state that matches LC. It is copied and sent to England. Gilbert continues to revise. Later still, Gilbert prepares a fresh draft, the pages of which receive the "older" page numbers in MD. 5. Gilbert and Sullivan decide on more restructuring in Act I, causing Gilbert to jetison about half of the Act and rewrite it. Coincidentally, at this point Gilbert starts using a different type of ink. New pages are inserted, and the old ones are renumbered. 6. Sullivan finishes Act II, and Gilbert gives him the *revised* Act I to work on. While this sequence would explain everything we find in MD, it presents a number of insuperable difficulties. It is clear that the text underwent at least two significant rewrites between the license copy and MD's final state. Yet, Sullivan's first mention of the missing sketches comes on December 10th, and he reports finishing the act just a week later, on December 17th. He also mentions a musical rehearsal of the act on December 15th. Even granting the prodigious speed at which he and Gilbert could work, the MD text must have been in his hands through much of that week. When, then, was there time for such wholesale rewriting to have taken place? We also know that, between the LC and the final MD versions of the opera, Mabel was transformed from an unattractive lady to a beautiful one. By the time Gilbert and Sullivan were on the boat to America, they knew that the comely Blanche Roosevelt was to play Mabel. Most probably, the lines about blemishes and bad complexion had already been abandoned. Gone, too, was an entire character: the pirate James. I described other substantial differences between the two texts in my June article and will not repeat them here. If the decision to include CORM was made relatively early, but still the result of the missing sketches, then there certainly was time for a couple of full rewrites of the libretto. But in that case, Sullivan would not have waited till December 10th to mention the missing sketches to his mother. In that same letter, Sullivan says that it is "too late" to send for the sketches, but this conclusion was the consequence of PINAFORE doing worse than expected at the box office, causing the partners to rush PIRATES into production. Since PINAFORE didn't open till December 1st, Sullivan couldn't have known of the emergency until December 5th or 6th, at the earliest. Conversely, if the decision to include CORM came late, then there is no time for all of the rewrites, given that MD, in its current state, seems to have landed in Sullivan's lap on or about December 10th. Just the copying of LC must have taken a full day even as a rush job, and the libretto still had radical changes to undergo before it reached Sullivan. By this time, Gilbert would have been in a tremendous hurry and would not, for example, have rewritten an entire page just to change the title of the offstage chorus the girls sing while Frederic is talking to Ruth. One feature of the manuscript does seem, at least on its face, to favor the traditional "Happy Accident" story. I have mentioned that all of the "older" pages of the manuscript, such as those on which CORM appears, have both an original and a replacement page number. The original page numbers of the four-page section described above are: 14a, 15, 16, and 17. The preceding page, original p. 14, ends with Ruth's exit after her duet with Frederic. Original p. 14a, as first written, goes directly into the girls' chorus, "With timid step and watchful eye." Frederic's recitative, "What shall I do," is written sideways in the margin, with an arrow to show where it slots into the flow of the action. Why would there be a page 14a? When I first saw it, I assumed it was the "smoking gun" that proves "Happy Accident." If the chorus Gilbert and Sullivan had intended to use (i.e., the one Sullivan supposedly couldn't remember) occupied only one page of text, while CORM occupied two pages, perhaps Gilbert numbered the two CORM pages "14a" and "15", to avoid having to renumber the whole manuscript for just one insertion. At first glance, this shows every sign of an emergency substitution. When p. 14a is considered in context, however, the explanation makes no sense. Both MD and LC contain CORM, but most of MD cannot be a source for LC. Therefore, even MD's "older" pages must, for the most part, be rewrites of pages now lost. We don't know when CORM came into the opera, but it had to have been several versions of the opera earlier than the state MD now presents--early enough for the page describing the girls' offstage chorus to mention the name of the song they sing. So, it could very well be that CORM was a "second thought," but it had to have been an earlier thought, not a late one. This, indeed, would rehabilitate the Percy Strzelecki letter, for Gilbert would have remembered CORM coming into the opera later than the rest of the material, and also remembered Sullivan leaving his Act I sketches behind, but at twenty-five years' distance conflated the events when they were in fact separate. More prosaically, as Michael Walters suggested to me privately, Gilbert could simply have misnumbered the pages; when he found an unnumbered page after-the-fact, labeling it "14a" would have been an easy thing to do. Michael has observed that if one is inserting two pages where one had previously been, they will be numbered 15 and 15a, not 14a and 15. The two pages where CORM appears are actually part of a continuous four-page sequence, so the most likely numbering if they were an after-the-fact addition would be 15, 16, 17, and 17a. Loose Threads and Open Questions -------------------------------- When I first presented a version of my June article to Bruce Miller, he agreed that it was difficult to conceive of so many revisions to the text being made in so short a time, as "Happy Accident" requires us to believe. However, he proposed that the state of the license copy could be explained, consistently with "Happy Accident," if that text was assembled from a variety of disparate sources, some old some new. Bruce posited that, in the heat of emergency, the LC text could have been copied from whatever spare drafts were lying around, regardless of whether they represented the current state of the opera. Examination of the license copy itself eliminates this possibility. LC is a fair copy, clearly written by one person (not Gilbert) over, at most, a day or two. There are no cancellations, corrections, empty spaces, or losses of continuity. Whoever wrote it was obviously given a stable text to work from, as it reads like a finished opera--not like some of the other Gilbert drafts I've seen, such as MD, where there are missing numbers and obvious non-sequiturs. The LC text is NOT a mongrel, but simply a very early text at least two generations removed from MD's final state. In my earlier article, I posited that LC was originally a backup copy of the text that Gilbert left behind before leaving for New York, and that it was pressed into service as a license copy only when the shipment of performance materials for Paignton was late in arriving. While there are no more known sources that could further confirm or refute this hypothesis, perhaps there are as-yet undiscovered letters in the D'Oyly Carte archives that could pin down the opera's evolution with greater precision. Bruce Miller pointed out in a private email that, when Gilbert and Sullivan arrived in New York, they told reporters that their new opera was about robbers. Clearly, this was the original idea, as evidenced by Gilbert's August 7th letter to Sullivan (quoted above). If they were still planning an opera about robbers when they arrived in New York, then LC can't be a text they left behind in London, since LC is about pirates through and through. However, I believe that the statement to reporters was merely a ruse to deflect attention from their actual plans. There simply isn't sufficient time between their arrival and the debut of the opera for so radical a change in concept. But, if it could be proved that they did indeed arrive in New York with an opera about robbers still in their plans, then the chronology I've presented would have to be completely reconsidered. While the possibility strikes me as highly implausible, perhaps there is additional evidence, as yet undiscovered, Conclusions ----------- Any attempt to piece together historical events from partial evidence involves some amount of conjecture. However, the most natural interpretation of the evidence here strongly suggests that "Climbing Over Rocky Mountain" was not added to the opera for the reason Gilbert suggested in 1902, as a convenient substitution when Sullivan found he had left his sketches behind and couldn't remember all that he had written. CORM is part of the license copy, the oldest full text that we have. The next draft after that is MD, which is two rewrites of the opera later, if not more. Sullivan used MD when he started to compose Act I. It is at this point that he would have reported to Gilbert that he could not recall the setting of the women's entrance chorus. However, CORM was already in the manuscript, and indeed, had already been part of the opera for quite some time. Had the decision to substitute CORM been made at this juncture, it would be one of the newer items in the draft, not one of the older items. Given the date when all this apparently occurred--independently corroborated by Sullivan's diary, his letter to his mother, the status of PINAFORE at the Fifth Avenue Theatre, and the state of the draft itself--there is not time for two full rewrites, as the Company was already in rehearsal, and Sullivan was composing at a furious pace. Against all this, we have only Gilbert's letter, which we cannot find. Although I assume that the letter exists, Gilbert's memory clearly had failed him on at least some of the details. His memory was faulty also in the other important letter to Percy Strzelecki, in which he falsely claims to have been out of the country when THESPIS was first published. I'm sure that there are many other examples of Gilbert's faulty memory. Another one that recently came to my attention also concerns PIRATES. Readers may recall that Harriet Everard, the original Buttercup, was supposed to create the role of Ruth in London. A few days before the premiere, she was badly injured by a piece of falling scenery. She was replaced in the production by Emily Cross. Gilbert later recalled that Miss Everard died within a week. Quite the contrary, she lived for about after a year that, and even came back to play Ruth briefly during the run, before dying, not of her injuries, but of consumption. It does not seem, therefore, that we can put much stock in Gilbert's memory years after-the-fact. There simply is no credible scenario consistent with CORM being a "Happy Accident." All the evidence, even more so now than before, suggests that the authors intended to include it in the opera all along. To the new evidence presented here can be added many other factors mentioned in my June article, such as the convenient presence of a THESPIS score in New York. That fact alone, even if we knew nothing else, would be enough to make us doubtful of the traditional story. I conclude, therefore, that the glorious entry of the women's chorus in PIRATES, so perfectly suited to the dramatic situation, and one of the best choruses of its kind in the entire canon, was no Happy Accident. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Summary-line: 27-Nov Ronald Orenstein #Re: Climbing Over Rocky Mountain Research Update (VERY LONG) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02163; Thu, 27 Nov 97 09:26:50 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14218; Thu, 27 Nov 97 09:25:56 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA28116; Thu, 27 Nov 199 7 09:25:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:25:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971127090913.00746dc4@inforamp.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: ornstn@inforamp.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ronald Orenstein To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Climbing Over Rocky Mountain Research Update (VERY LONG) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <347D74ED.E0DB4732@cris.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) *** EOOH *** 7 09:25:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:25:37 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: ornstn@inforamp.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ronald Orenstein To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Climbing Over Rocky Mountain Research Update (VERY LONG) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In-Reply-To: <347D74ED.E0DB4732@cris.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Great piece - I hope Jim will put it (and its predecessor) in the archive. I for one have never believed the "Happy Accident" story - Glad to have my opinion backed, etc etc. A few very minor points: For those who didn't receive that article, or who wish to >receive it again, please contact me privately, and I'd be happy to send >you a copy. Please do - I was out of the country at the time. Where was Dangle then? [I don't know > who this refers to. --MPW] I think I can guess. "Dangle" is the name of a leading character in Sheridan's "The Critic". From the tone of the comments I suspect that the reference is not to the Sheridan play directly, but may be to some rival of "Numquam" (perhaps from some other paper?) who had adopted "Dangle" as a nom de plume. I assume Numquam is simply twitting Dangle for not having seen "Thespis" (possibly implying that, compared to Numquam, he is a parvenu in the criticism business). > I was informed by Messrs. Chappell and Co. some 12 years ago, > was never published. "Nor is it ever likely to be printed", > they added -- which is a pity. [This comment implies that they > had a copy of the score in their possession at that time. --MPW]. It would certainly seem so! But why would they make such a statement? I can think of two reasons: Sullivan may have wanted it suppressed for personal reasons or it may have been too full of obvious later borrowings. I suppose it is also possible that if PS made his enquiry in 1890 or thereabouts there could have been some problems arising from the carpet quarrel that might have made Chappel think it unlikely that G&S would ever be in a position to agree about publishing a score that would require input from both of them before it could appear. Our Mr. Dangle knows his Gilbert well -- as > do, in fact, most of the noble army of Clarionettes -- but I > should be very much astonished if even that great critic, that > mine of information relating to all things theatrical, ever saw > or perused the book of Thespis. The sarcasm here bears out, I think, my comments on Mr. Dangle above. > Repeating Nunquam's query, "Why don't the Savoy management > look that Thespis up?" > Yours etc., Percy Strzelecki. Note Numquam's use of "don't"! One worth quoting is an ensemble after >"Poor wandering one," in which Mabel sings: "Although I am, by judges >keen | Esteemed a beauty, | My greatest charm has always been | A sense >of duty!" Frederic sings, in parallel to this, different words >expressing the same idea, while the girls repeat a version their earlier >verse, "The question is, had he not been | A thing of beauty...." So, >Gilbert had completely rethought his approach to Mabel, from apologizing >for her plainness (in LC) to extolling her beauty (in MD). Mabel's lines seem to suggest that Gilbert was expecting her to sing this to a reprise of "Oh is there not one maiden fair", with a melisma on "esteemed" and "sense". -- Ronald I. Orenstein Phone: (905) 820-7886 International Wildlife Coalition Fax/Modem: (905) 569-0116 1825 Shady Creek Court Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5L 3W2 mailto:ornstn@inforamp.net  1,, Summary-line: 27-Nov Marc Shepherd #Sixteen Original Comic Operas Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10279; Thu, 27 Nov 97 22:19:25 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03533; Thu, 27 Nov 97 22:18:35 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA00487; Thu, 27 Nov 199 7 22:18:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:18:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <347E36BE.DF93803B@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sixteen Original Comic Operas X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** 7 22:18:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:18:31 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sixteen Original Comic Operas X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) In August, I sent an email to Savoynet inquiring about two volumes called "Eight Original Comic Operas," First Series and Second Series, published jointly by Chappell and Chatto & Windus in the 1890s. At the G&S Festival, in Buxton, I had observed two copies of the First Series that were different from each other, and I wondered how many other different states might exist. I asked for private responses and promised to summarize my findings on the net. This post is a belated fulfillment of that promise. Seven people replied to my query; several of them had multiple copies of either or both of the EOCO volumes. Geoff Dixon was able to confirm that my original supposition--that the two were originally published as a set--was incorrect. He reported that the New Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature gives the original publication dates of the two volumes as 1890 and 1896 respectively. In addition, Michael Walters has a copy of the First Series that is NOT labeled "First Series." The set seems to have remained in print until 1910 or so. As I reported in my original posting, the texts -- aside from front- and end-papers -- are simply the standard Chappell libretti that ordinarily were sold separately. In fact, the pagination of each opera starts over again at 1. It is well known that the Chappell libretti did change over the years. Evidently, the EOCO publishers over the ong period that these volumes were in print would prepare small batches at a time, taking the then-current versions of each libretto, and supplying new front- and end-matter. As you'll see from the descriptions below, almost every copy of these volumes is different. Following hereafter is the information I received from the seven correspondents who answered my original query. I did not receive the same level of detail from each person, so there is necessarily some imprecision. FIRST SERIES ------------ I received details on the following: MS - Marc Shepherd's copy RM1 - Ralph MacPhail's first copy RM2 - Ralph MacPhail's second copy DS1 - Don Smith's copy IB1 - Ian Bond's first copy IB2 - Ian Bond's second copy MW - Michael Walters's copy GD1 - Geoff Dixon's first copy GD2 - Geoff Dixon's second copy DS2 - David Stone's copy TD - Tim Devlin's copy Binding: ------- All copies seem to be as described by Michael Walters, namely, "black lettering and intricate design on dark yellow-buff cloth" except for Don Smith's copy, which is "bound in Red with lettering in Gold pseudo-Gothic type." Title Page: ---------- The title page of the MS copy, in quasi facsimile, is as follows: FIRST SERIES. | [short rule] | ORIGINAL COMIC OPERAS. | WRITTEN BY | W. S. GILBERT. | CONTAINING | THE SORCERER. [vertical rule, dividing four lines of text] PATIENCE. | H.M.S. PINAFORE [vert. rule cont'd] | PRINCESS IDA. | THE PIRATES OF PENZANCE. [vert. rule cont'd] THE MIKADO. | IOLANTHE. [vert. rule cont'd] TRIAL BY JURY. | Cloth 2/6 net cash. [decor. rule] Scarlet Cloth, Gilt, 4/- net cash. | [sm. caps] London: | CHAPPELL & CO., [sm. caps] Ltd., 50, NEW BOND STREET, W. | [sm. caps] New York and Melbourne. | CHATTO & WINDUS, [sm. caps] Ltd., 110 & 111, ST. MARTIN'S LANE, W. C. The title page of the DS copy matches the above, except: -- no short rule between FIRST SERIES and ORIGINAL COMIC OPERAS -- no period after FIRST SERIES -- The price line is: Ent. Sta Hall - - - o - - - Price (That's right, the word "Price" but no price.) Ralph MacPhail says that on one of his copies, the short rule after the words "FIRST SERIES" is absent. [Ralph, is this RM1 or RM2?] Ralph also says that one of his copies mentions the Scarlet Cloth edition at 4/-, the other does not. Michael Walters says that the words "First Series" do not appear anywhere on his copy. Geoff Dixon says that is true of GD1. The title page of the TD copy is identical to that of the MS copy, except that three Chappell locations are given (New York, Toronto, and Melbourne), and there is a four-line copyright notice (no year) at the bottom. Advertisements: -------------- The MS copy has five pages of advertisements at the back of the volume: 1. (verso of the last page of TRIAL BY JURY): Advt. for Chappell vocal scores, including all eleven G&S that Chappell published at that time (i.e., no SORCERER oR PINAFORE), plus HADDON HALL, IVANHOE, and THE FORESTERS. 2. advt. for "Chappell & Co.'s Popular Comic Operas, Standard Operas, Musical Plays, &c." A very long list of about 40 operas. Among them are EMERALD ISLE, TOM JONES, and MERRIE ENGLAND, but *not* PRINCESS OF KENSINGTON. 3. advt. for "Chappell & Co.'s Latest Song and Ballad Successes." 4. advt. for "The Latest London & Continental Successes" (more operas). 5. advt. for Second Series of Original Comic Operas, consisting of the title page of that volume; similar to the above, except that the operas are laid out on the page like this: THE GONDOLIERS. THE GRAND DUKE | THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD. | HIS EXCELLENCY. UTOPIA, LIMITED. | RUDDIGORE. THE MOUNTEBANKS. | HASTE TO THE WEDDING. Ralph MacPhail says that one of his copies has five pages of ads (though he did not detail them); the other has what appear to be two leaves torn out. Ian Bond says that IB1 has advts at the back for MOUNTEBANKS, GONDOLIERS, and Series Two. IB2 has avderts for:- First Series, Gondoliers, Yeomen, Grand Duke, Mountebanks, Mikado, Utopia, Popular Comic Operas (including Foresters, Haddon Hall and Ivanhoe but NOT Rose or Emerald Isle). Geoff Dixon says that GD1 has advertising material restricted to Gilbert's and Sullivan's work. GD2 has advertising material which includes, in a Chappell advert., a mention of "The Merry Widow Waltz." THE MERRY WIDOW was first produced in Vienna in 1905 and in London in 1907. Don Smith says that his copy has two sheets (4 pages) of ads at the back, as follows: 1. Chappell & Co.'s Popular Comic Operas, Standard Operas, Musical Plays, etc. -- a full Savoy list, including MIRETTE, THE LUCKY STAR, ROSE OF PERSIA, HASTE TO THE WEDDING, but *not* THE EMERALD ISLE. 2. Santley's Singing Master 3. Chappel & Co.'s Westminster Albums 4. t.p. for Second Series Original Comic Operas by W. S. Gilbert Tim Devlin says that there are five advert pages at the back of his copy: 1. 10 G&S, plus HADDON, IVANHOE, THE FORRESTERS, and TRIAL 2-5. Appear to be identical to the MS copy, except that TORONTO is listed as one of the Chappell cities at the bottom of each page. D.P. Pages: ---------- Series One contains SORCERER (SO), PINAFORE (PF), PIRATES (PP), IOLANTHE (IO), PATIENCE (PC), IDA (PI), MIKADO (MK) and TRIAL (TJ) in that order. The clearest distinguishing feature amongst the various copies is the number of casts shown on the "dramatis personae" (d.p.) pages. It is easiest if I show these in tabular form. If you are not reading this in a fixed-width font, then it will be unintelligible. In the table below, the number shown is the number of casts on the D.P. page for each opera; a zero means that only the character names are shown. For example, a '3' under SORCERER means that casts are shown for the original production and the first two revivals. Numbers in brackets are footnotes where needed for further explanation. MS RM1 RM2 DS IB1 IB2 MW GD TD SO 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 PF 3 3 1 [3] 3 3 0 0 1 1 PP 5 5 0 5 0 0 0 1 1 IO 2 2 0 0 0 [2] 0 1 1 PC 2 2 0 2 0 0 0 1 1 PI 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 MK 1 [1] 1 [1] 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 TJ 3 3 0 3 3 0 0 1 3 [1] Cast shown is that of the 1895 revival. [2] IOLANTHE is missing from IB2 (not originally; it has been ripped out). [3] Opening night cast; no production specifics Geoff Dixon says that GD2 matches the MS copy. David Stone says that DS2 matches RM2. Don Smith mentions that on p.17 of PATIENCE, Patience addresses Grosvenor as "Algernon." My p.17 is like that, as well. Tim Devlin's has "Archibald." I have five Chappell PATIENCE libretti in my collection; the first two say "Farewell, Algernon"; the last three are correct. The first one dates from the original production; the second has a title page that matches the one in my copy of EOCO. The third, obviously later still, does not include cast lists. Advertisements mention all three of the German operas that preceded FALLEN FAIRIES (i.e. MERRIE ENGLAND, TOM JONES, and A PRINCESS OF KENSINGTON). Michael Walters mentions that in some copies of the First Series, Mabel sings: The chilly night air is damp And the dews are falling fast and in others she sings The chilly night air is damp And the dew is falling fast My copy, Don Smith's copy, and Tim Devlin's copy all have the former. No one besides Michael has reported seeing the latter. SECOND SERIES ------------- I received detailed information on the following: MS - Marc Shepherd's copy RM1 - Ralph MacPhail's first copy RM2 - Ralph MacPhail's second copy IB1 - Ian Bond's first copy IB2 - Ian Bond's second copy MW1 - Michael Walters's first copy MW2 - Michael Walters's second copy GD1 - Geoff Dixon's first copy GD2 - Geoff Dixon's second copy DS2 - David Stone's copy TD - Tim Devlin's copy Ian Bond says that his first series IB1 and his second series IB1 were purchased as a pair and seem to have gone together from birth. His two IB2's however, were not purchased as a pair. Tim Devlin says that his copies of the First and Second Series appear to have been paired from birth. Michael Walters says that his two copies of the Second Series were bought at different times and did not come with his copy of the First Series. Binding: ------- All copies seem to be as described by Michael Walters above for his copy of the First Series. Title Page: ---------- The title page of the MS copy, in quasi-facsimile, is as follows: SECOND SERIES. | [short rule] | ORIGINAL COMIC OPERAS. | WRITTEN BY | W. S. GILBERT. | CONTAINING | THE GONDOLIERS. THE GRAND DUKE. | THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD. | HIS EXCELLENCY. UTOPIA, LIMITED. | RUDDIGORE. THE MOUNTEBANKS. | HASTE TO THE WEDDING. | Ent. Sta. Hall. [decor. rule] Price 2/6. | [sm. caps] London: | CHAPPELL & CO., 50, NEW BOND STREET, W. | CHATTO & WINDUS, 110 & 111, ST. MARTIN'S LANE, W. C. On the page is stamped, in blue ink, the "signature" of "Chappell & Co LTD." Ralph MacPhail says that on one of his copies, the price is given as "Cloth, 2/6 net"; on the other, "Cloth, 2s 6d." Ralph also says one of his mentions the red/gilt binding at 4/-, the other does not. [Ralph, which is RM1, and which is RM2?] Geoff Dixon says he has two copies of the Second series; one of them seems to match the title page described above; the other describes the two available bindings (Cloth and Scarlet/Gilt). Tim Devlin says that his copy matches the above up to "HASTE TO THE WEDDING". Then: | Cloth, 2/6 net cash. [decor. rule] Scarlet Cloth, Gilt, 4/- net cash. The Chappell locations on this copy are New York, Toronto, and Melbourne, and there is a copyright notice at the bottom. Advertisements: -------------- In the MS copy, there are eight pages of advertisements at the back of the book: 1. Title page of the First Series of Original Comic Operas. The page is the same, in quasi-facsimile, as given above for the MS copy of the First Series, except that, below the names of the eight operas, it continues as follows: Ent. Sta. Hall. [decor. rule] Price 2/6. | [gothic] London: | CHAPPELL & CO., [sm. caps] Ltd., 50, [sm. caps] New Bond Street, W. | CHATTO & WINDUS, 110 & 111, ST. MARTIN'S LANE, W. C. 2. advt. for vocal score, libretto, and selections from THE GONDOLIERS. 3. advt. for vocal score, libretto, and selections from THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD. 4. advt. for vocal score, libretto, and selections from THE GRAND DUKE. 5. advt. for vocal score, libretto, and selections from THE MOUNTEBANKS. 6. advt. for vocal score, libretto, and selections from THE MIKADO. 7. advt. for vocal score, libretto, and selections from UTOPIA LIMITED. 8. advt. for "Popular Comic Operas written by W. S. Gilbert Composed by Arthur Sullivan and published by Chappell & Co., Ltd." There are listings for all 11 operas for which Chappell published vocal scores at that time (the TRIAL) listing set off from the other ten); then, libretti listed for PINAFORE, SORCERER, and TRIAL; then, listings for the two volumes of ORIGINAL COMIC OPERAS, both priced "Complete, Cloth, Net 2s. 6d." Ralph MacPhail says both of his copies have eight pages of ads at the back, though he didn't detail them. Ian Bond says that IB1 has advts at the back for Trial and Iolanthe (one page), Pirates and Patience (one page), Ida, Mikado. IB2 has advts at the back for First Series, Popular Comic Operas, Light Opera Successes including German's Tom Jones (1907). Tim Devlin's copy four advert pages as follows: 1. First Series title page, as in TD's copy 2. Chappell & Co.'s Latest Song and Ballad Successes. 3. Vocal score, etc., for GONDOLIERS. 4. Vocal score, etc., for MIKADO all 4 pages with New York, Toronto, Melborune addresses D.P. Pages: ---------- Series Two contains GONDOLIERS (GN), GRAND DUKE (GD), YEOMEN (YG), HIS EXCELLENCY (HE), UTOPIA LIMITED (UL), RUDDIGORE (RG), THE MOUNTEBANKS (MB), and HASTE TO THE WEDDING (HW). Here again, I use the tabular format, with footnotes in brackets: MS RM1 RM2 IB1 IB2 MW1 MW2 GN 0 [2] 2 2 0 2 [4] 1 2 GD 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 YG 0 [3] 2 2 0 3 [5] 1 2 HE 0 0 [1] 0 [1] 0 0 [1] 1 0 [1] UL 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 RG 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 MB 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 HW 0 0 [1] 0 [1] 0 0 [1] 1 0 [1] [1] On these pages, there is an obvious gap, where the cast names were once present but have been rubbed off of the plates, but the original MD, producer, choreographer, etc., are still listed at the bottom. This is clearly NOT the case on the MS and IB1 copies. [2] Date of original production stated, but not that of first revival (1898). [3] Date of original production stated, but not that of first revival (1897). [4] Mentions 1907 revival, without giving cast list. [5] Mentions 1906 revival, without giving cast list. >From the descriptions provided, GD1 and GD2 seem to match MW1 and MW2 respectively. DS2 and TD seem to be a match for RM1, RM2 and MW2 (all of these being apparently identical). CONCLUSIONS: ----------- Overall, my correspondents and I identified nine libretto states of the First Series and seven libretto states of the Second series, not even counting differences in the front and end papers and binding. My guess is that even more states exist. Over the years, I'll certainly be buying up any copies of these oddball volumes that I see at reasonable prices. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Summary-line: 5-Dec doxite@www.netlabs.net #Spelling Again Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02703; Fri, 5 Dec 97 07:19:55 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29525; Fri, 5 Dec 97 07:19:02 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA09846; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:12:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:12:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712051204.HAA15834@www.netlabs.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: doxite@www.netlabs.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "C.M.Papa, M.D." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Spelling Again X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:12:22 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: doxite@www.netlabs.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "C.M.Papa, M.D." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Spelling Again X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 > SPELL CHECKERS > > I have a spelling checker > I disk covered four my PC. > It plane lee marks four my revue > Miss steaks aye can knot see. > > Eye ran this poem threw it. > Your sure real glad two no. > Its very polished in its weigh, > My checker tolled me sew. > > A checker is a blessing. > It freeze yew lodes of thyme. > It helps me right awl stiles two reed, > And aides me when aye rime. > > Each frays comes posed up on my screen > Eye trussed too bee a joule. > The checker pours o'er every word > To cheque sum spelling rule. > > Bee fore wee rote with checkers > Hour spelling was inn deck line, > Butt now when wee dew have a laps, > Wee are not maid too wine. > > And now bee cause my spelling > Is checked with such grate flare, > There are know faults in awl this peace, > Of nun eye am a wear. > > To rite with care is quite a feet > Of witch won should be proud, > And wee mussed dew the best wee can, > Sew flaws are knot aloud. > > That's why eye brake in two averse > Cuz Eye dew want too please. > Sow glad eye yam that aye did bye > This soft wear four pea seas. > > Author Unknown > > --------- End forwarded message ----------  1,, Summary-line: 5-Dec Bruce I. Miller #Re: this uncalled for appoggiatura -Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20539; Fri, 5 Dec 97 12:54:11 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27650; Fri, 5 Dec 97 12:53:21 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA12113; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: bmiller@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: this uncalled for appoggiatura -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:07 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: bmiller@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: this uncalled for appoggiatura -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 >I see two notes in my Chappell VS (which doesn't necessarily mean it's >right). That's for damn sure. All it means is that someoneone connected with D'Oyly Carte, years after the deaths of both authors, made the revision because it conformed with their performance practice at the time. That having been said, the appogiatura here is probably an acceptable choice if it is done in the spirit of Bach/ Handelian recitative. There are a number of examples, in G & S, of Sullivan writing baroque recitative parodies. Some conductors will delay cadence chords in accordance with traditional performance practices, especially if their research discloses that these things were done in Sullivan's day. In a few instances they will actually re-orchestrate in order to make a more vivid baroque parody, as D'Oyly Carte did at the end of "This helmet, I suppose", so as it make it sound as if Henry Purcell had written it. To a lesser extent, some performers will attempt mild decoration in a baroque style, as is the case in "Do not give way to this uncalled-for grief." However, the danger of these alterations is that, as is the case with the Chappell vocal scores, what were legitimate variants having a certain momentary validity got immortalized -without any explanatory note or annotation - and such accretions became the accepted "official" texts, the originals being forgotten - as well as the occasion and reason for the changes in the first place. Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Summary-line: 7-Dec Miro Jurisic #Rhapsody installed on milque Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06620; Sun, 7 Dec 97 01:10:41 EST Received: from MIT.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29479; Sun, 7 Dec 97 01:09:42 EST Received: from THE-FINAL-FRONTIER.MIT.EDU by MIT.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03472; Sun, 7 Dec 97 01:09:38 EST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:09:19 -0500 To: sipb-office@MIT.EDU From: Miro Jurisic Subject: Rhapsody installed on milque *** EOOH *** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:09:19 -0500 To: sipb-office@MIT.EDU From: Miro Jurisic Subject: Rhapsody installed on milque I installed Rhapsody Developer Release 1 on milque. For those who are interested: - the root password is the office root password - the password for the user 'me' is the sipb0 password - IMPORTANT: If you log in and run Terminal.app, do _NOT_ log out while Terminal.app is running. It has a bad habit of wedging, and the system will occasionally recover, or you might be able to telnet in and kill Terminal.app. Most of the time, however, it will just die. (This has been reported to Apple.) If you want to logout, quit Terminal.app, and if it refuses to quit kill it. To kill an app when you don't have access to Terminal.app, go to your Workspace (click on the desktop), hit command-shift-P to get the Process Manager window, click on Terminal.app, click on the big Kill button, and the app will die. You can now logout safely. - I configured resolv.conf - I did _not_ configure the rest of the networking stuff. You need to change host configuration by either using NetInfo Manager (in NextAdmin folder) or altering /etc/hostconfig and then doing an niload. You'll need to reboot. If you don't know what I am talking about, find someone who does. - Do not run named. lxs says it's borken. - I did _not_ configure sendmail. If you want to do this, you need to get sendmail to run (after you setup networking), which you do by altering /etc/startup/1900_Mail, since it contains a wrong path to sendmail. I believe that standard Athena sendmail.cf did not work right for me, but I am not a sendmail hacker, so feel free to entetain yourself. - To switch between booting MacOS and Rhapsody, hold CapsLock down while rebooting. - IMPORTANT: If you reconfigure the SCSI chain, Rhapsody might not be able to boot, because it stores the location of the boot device by the device name of the boot device, which can change if you reconfigure the SCSI chain. In particular, the MkLinux drive and the BeOS drive were powered down when I was installing Rhapsody (I don't know why) and if you power them up while trying to boot Rhapsody, you will probably lose. If Rhapsody is unable to boot, press Command-Control-Power to reboot and hold CapsLock down to boot into MacOS. Then read and reconfigure the machine appropriatelly. - While you are at it, read the other Rhapsody docs as well. - You can get some useful stuff from (like Emacs and tcsh) - I couldn't find a Rhapsody sticker. Find/make one and put it on the unlabeled drive. I think that's it... send questions to me and/or lxs. Have fun. meeroh "The last good thing written in C was Franz Schubert's Symphony number 9." Erwin Dieterich  1,, Summary-line: 7-Dec Charles M. Hannum #Re: Rhapsody installed on milque Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20833; Sun, 7 Dec 97 06:19:59 EST Received: from [18.23.10.237] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15490; Sun, 7 Dec 97 06:18:40 EST Received: (from mycroft@localhost) by bikini.linnaean.org (8.8.7/8.8.6) id GAA01655; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 06:18:42 -0500 (EST) Sender: mycroft@bikini.linnaean.org To: Miro Jurisic Cc: aellwood@MIT.DEU Cc: sipb-office@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Rhapsody installed on milque References: From: mycroft@MIT.EDU (Charles M. Hannum) Date: 07 Dec 1997 06:18:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: Miro Jurisic's message of Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:09:19 -0500 Message-Id: Lines: 46 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 *** EOOH *** Sender: mycroft@bikini.linnaean.org To: Miro Jurisic Cc: aellwood@MIT.DEU Cc: sipb-office@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Rhapsody installed on milque References: From: mycroft@MIT.EDU (Charles M. Hannum) Date: 07 Dec 1997 06:18:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: Miro Jurisic's message of Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:09:19 -0500 Lines: 46 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Miro Jurisic writes: > > - IMPORTANT: If you log in and run Terminal.app, do _NOT_ log out while > Terminal.app is running. It has a bad habit of wedging, and the system will > occasionally recover, or you might be able to telnet in and kill > Terminal.app. Most of the time, however, it will just die. Actually, it has a bad habit of wedging when I try to exit it, and I generally have to kill it from the process manager. > - I did _not_ configure the rest of the networking stuff. You need to > change host configuration by either using NetInfo Manager (in NextAdmin > folder) or altering /etc/hostconfig and then doing an niload. You'll need > to reboot. If you don't know what I am talking about, find someone who does. Note that you need to disable network NetInfo queries, or it just won't boot correctly. The only way I know how to do this is with the HostManager's `Local' menu, though there's probably some magic NetInfo incantation.. > - To switch between booting MacOS and Rhapsody, hold CapsLock down while > rebooting. It seems that: * To switch from Rhapsody to MacOS, HOLD DOWN Caps Lock when you turn the machine on until you see the little happy Mac icon. * To switch from MacOS to Rhapsody, Caps Lock must be on (but not necessarily depressed) when the Rhapsody INIT (with the `Rh' on it, near the end of the INITs) loads. It will reboot into Rhapsody. > - IMPORTANT: If you reconfigure the SCSI chain, Rhapsody might not be able > to boot, because it stores the location of the boot device by the device > name of the boot device, which can change if you reconfigure the SCSI > chain. In particular, the MkLinux drive and the BeOS drive were powered > down when I was installing Rhapsody (I don't know why) and if you power > them up while trying to boot Rhapsody, you will probably lose. When I boot MacOS with the BeOS drive turned on, the keyboard and mouse stop working. I have no idea why. Right now, the MkLinux drive needs to be turned on to get the numbering right. (This is really lame.)  1,, Summary-line: 7-Dec Miro Jurisic #Re: Rhapsody installed on milque Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20640; Sun, 7 Dec 97 14:01:49 EST Received: from MIT.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19528; Sun, 7 Dec 97 14:00:55 EST Received: from THE-FINAL-FRONTIER.MIT.EDU by MIT.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18372; Sun, 7 Dec 97 14:00:47 EST Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Miro Jurisic's message of Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:09:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:54:41 -0500 To: mycroft@MIT.EDU (Charles M. Hannum) From: Miro Jurisic Subject: Re: Rhapsody installed on milque Cc: aellwood@MIT.EDU, sipb-office@MIT.EDU *** EOOH *** In-Reply-To: References: Miro Jurisic's message of Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:09:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:54:41 -0500 To: mycroft@MIT.EDU (Charles M. Hannum) From: Miro Jurisic Subject: Re: Rhapsody installed on milque Cc: aellwood@MIT.EDU, sipb-office@MIT.EDU >Actually, it has a bad habit of wedging when I try to exit it, and I >generally have to kill it from the process manager. Yes, as I said, just kill it before you try to log out. >* To switch from MacOS to Rhapsody, Caps Lock must be on (but not >necessarily depressed) when the Rhapsody INIT (with the `Rh' on it, >near the end of the INITs) loads. It will reboot into Rhapsody. Holding down CL while rebooting from MacOS, holding it down when the control panel loads, and having it on when the control panel loads will reboot into Rhapsody. They all work. >When I boot MacOS with the BeOS drive turned on, the keyboard and >mouse stop working. I have no idea why. Right now, the MkLinux drive >needs to be turned on to get the numbering right. (This is really >lame.) You can work around this by rearranging SCSI IDs so that the Rhapsody drive has ID 1 on the external bus, if you really want to avoid the problem. I have no idea what's up with the BeOS drive. meeroh "The last good thing written in C was Franz Schubert's Symphony number 9." Erwin Dieterich  1,, Summary-line: 7-Dec Wilfredo Sanchez #Re: Rhapsody installed on milque Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19025; Sun, 7 Dec 97 17:58:03 EST Received: from CALLOWAY.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17160; Sun, 7 Dec 97 17:56:28 EST Received: (from tritan@localhost) by calloway.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03358; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:56:55 -0500 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:56:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199712072256.RAA03358@calloway.mit.edu> From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: meeroh@MIT.EDU Cc: sipb-office@MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: (message from Miro Jurisic on Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:09:19 -0500) Subject: Re: Rhapsody installed on milque *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:56:55 -0500 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: meeroh@MIT.EDU Cc: sipb-office@MIT.EDU In-Reply-To: (message from Miro Jurisic on Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:09:19 -0500) Subject: Re: Rhapsody installed on milque > - IMPORTANT: If you log in and run Terminal.app, do _NOT_ log out while >Terminal.app is running. It has a bad habit of wedging, and the system will >occasionally recover, or you might be able to telnet in and kill >Terminal.app. Most of the time, however, it will just die. (This has been >reported to Apple.) We know about this, and it's been fixed. I think the answer is not to quit Terminal (or log out, which is about the same) while Terminal has no windows open. If you close all the windows, and quit, it gets unhappy. > - I did _not_ configure sendmail. If you want to do this, you need to get >sendmail to run (after you setup networking), which you do by altering >/etc/startup/1900_Mail, since it contains a wrong path to sendmail. I >believe that standard Athena sendmail.cf did not work right for me, but I >am not a sendmail hacker, so feel free to entetain yourself. I just looked at sendmail this weekend, and it looks like nobody at Apple tried to port it to Rhapsody, so it was compiled with configuration for OpenStep 4.2 and NeXTStep. I pulled down 8.8.8 and ported it. I'd be glad to send you the source (or the diffs) if someone is interested. We haven't been using it at Apple, so it wouldn't surprise me if the shipped version doesn't work at all. > - To switch between booting MacOS and Rhapsody, hold CapsLock down while >rebooting. Make sure caps lock is back up when MacOS starts booting, or the machine will reboot itself when it gets to the Rhapsody control panel. -Fred  1,, Summary-line: 14-Dec Jacob Morzinski #Re: Rhapsody installed on milque Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06850; Sun, 14 Dec 97 14:21:46 EST Received: from CONTENTS-VNDER-PRESSVRE.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26086; Sun, 14 Dec 97 14:20:45 EST Received: by contents-vnder-pressvre.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id OAA08470; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:20:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712141920.OAA08470@contents-vnder-pressvre.MIT.EDU> To: sipb-office@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Rhapsody installed on milque In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:22:38 -0500." <199712141722.MAA20975@tla.MIT.EDU> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:20:44 EST From: "Jacob Morzinski" *** EOOH *** To: sipb-office@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Rhapsody installed on milque In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:22:38 -0500." <199712141722.MAA20975@tla.MIT.EDU> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:20:44 EST From: "Jacob Morzinski" The instructions should be: If the Mac has been going into MacOS, and you want to boot into Rhapsody, wait until the Mac starts loading INITs, and then toggle the CapsLock key a few times, stopping when the CapsLock LED on the keyboard changes from the unlit state to the lit state. When the Rh INIT loads, the mac should immediately reboot, and start booting Rhapsody. If the Mac has been starting Rhapsody, and you want to boot MacOS (or BeOS, or MkLinux, which are reached via branchpoints in the MacOS boot process), then reboot the machine, and immediately hold down the physical Caps Lock key on the keyboard. Keep it held down. Within five seconds, it should be obvious that the mac is booting MacOS instead of Rhapsody. At this point you can let go of the CapsLock key. I'd also suggest toggling the key until the LED changes from the lit state to the unlit state, so that when the Rh INIT loads you stay in MacOS. Note that Charles and I could not get the mac to work if both the BeOS and the Rhapsody drives were powered on. To boot Rhapsody, you have to turn of the middle of the two external drives, and turn on the top one. To boot BeOS you'll have to find a way to turn off the top drive before you turn the middle one back on. -Jacob marc@rover.cygnus.com writes: > Shabby and I just tried to boot Rhapsody on milq. We tried several > different combinations of caps lock and drive power, and it always > went to macos. > > Can you give step-by-step directions for booting rhapsody? > Marc  1, answered,, Summary-line: 16-Dec Paul McShane #A Christmas puzzle Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01997; Tue, 16 Dec 97 18:02:06 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27574; Tue, 16 Dec 97 18:01:17 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA13668; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:00:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:00:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <34970732.46FE@ozemail.com.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: exexpats@ozemail.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Paul McShane To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A Christmas puzzle X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id SAA13668 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:00:57 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: exexpats@ozemail.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Paul McShane To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A Christmas puzzle X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id SAA13668 This won't be everyone's cup of tea, but since David is doing a new thing the year, perhaps a few of you might find this cerebral exercise diverting=85. The New D'Oyly Carte Opera Company will be performing the three most popular operas in its repertoire (Thespis, Utopia Limited and Grand Duke) early in the new year, and has placed 36 audition notices on its notice board. There were three types of notice - 12 for male principals, 12 for female principals and 12 for chorus members. The notices were placed on the board neatly in six columns (named A to F, reading from left to right) and six rows (numbered 1 to 6, reading from top to bottom), in such a way that each single column and each single row had exactly two notices for each of the three types of notice mentioned above. The chorus notices (but not the principal notices) specified the opera being performed, but no opera was mentioned more than once in any single row or in any single column. Your job is to determine, from the clues below, which type of notice was in each position (A1, A2......., F6) and, in the case of the chorus notices, which opera was specified in each position. 1. There were no Thespis notices in either column B or column D. 2. There were no Utopia Limited notices in either row 3 or row 5. 3. There were no Grand Duke notices in either column C, column E or row 2. 4. Each female principal notice in row 3 was to the immediate right of a male principal notice. 5. Each female principal notice in column D was immediately below a male principal notice. 6. The chorus notices in column F were vertically adjacent, and below both female principal notices in that column. 7. In row 6, each notice was exactly three positions (either to the left or to the right) away from the other notice of the same type in the row. 8. The two chorus notices in row 1 were adjacent, and to the left of both male principal notices in that row. 9. Each male principal notice in row 5 was to the immediate left of a female principal notice. 10. The female principal notices in column B were vertically adjacent and immediately between the two male principal notices. 11. The male principal notices in column E were vertically adjacent. 12. Both male principal notices in row 2 were somewhere between the two chorus notices in that row. Please Email me privately if you discover the solution, or if you require any clarification. I plan to post the answer early next year.=20 Enjoy. Paul McShane  1,, Summary-line: 17-Dec Darrin Jewell #Re: access to quiche Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03663; Wed, 17 Dec 97 12:21:13 EST Received: from BART-SAVAGEWOOD.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07193; Wed, 17 Dec 97 12:20:20 EST Received: by bart-savagewood.MIT.EDU (SMI-8.6/4.7) id MAA15113; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:20:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:20:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199712171720.MAA15113@bart-savagewood.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: access to quiche From: Darrin Jewell Cc: Darrin Jewell *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:20:09 -0500 To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: access to quiche From: Darrin Jewell Cc: Darrin Jewell >You wouldn't happen to know just what it is about the NeXT that allows >Ctrl-S to work as isearch in emacs, but is a suspend output (restart >with Ctrl-Q) on both charon and quiche? It's amazing how much that >little detail can screw you up. Not sure. You might try: stty stop '^-' I didn't have this problem when I just now logged into quiche from bart-savagewood (An athena sun) using kerberized telnet. Darrin  1,, Summary-line: 18-Dec Sharon Brindle #FF 3,4,5,6,7,8,10 Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08805; Thu, 18 Dec 97 09:10:56 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14930; Thu, 18 Dec 97 09:09:56 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA24527; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:09:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:09:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712180841_MC2-2C74-9214@compuserve.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: forbes_denver@compuserve.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sharon Brindle To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FF 3,4,5,6,7,8,10 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:09:46 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: forbes_denver@compuserve.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sharon Brindle To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FF 3,4,5,6,7,8,10 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Dear All, Here are some of my inital efforts for David's competition (excellent questions, BTW, David): >3. Write a paragraph (which makes some sort of sense) containing as many of the subtitles as possible. In The Town of Titipu there stood Castle Adamant, in which lived Bunthorne, The King of Barataria, and Bunthorne's Bride. Although they were very happy together, The Merryman and his Maid had fallen foul of The Witch's curse many years ago, the witch making him the king of a country which, due to the Flowers of Progress, hated royalty. Bunthorne, then a mere lord, had fallen in love with The Lass That loved a Sailor, who was in fact a fairy. To win her hand, the lord defeated the sailor in The Statutory Duel, and since the fairy was The Slave of Duty, The Peer and the Peri were united forever. >4. Devise an advertising slogan or slogans for any of Little Buttercup's goods. Buy Buttercup's succulent chops - no bones about it, they're the BSE's knees! Buttercup's peppermint drops - bonbons from the bumboat. It's the sail of the century! >5. Post any parody of any one song. If you give me your attention I wil tell you what I am I'm a G&S enthusiast who spouts ad nauseam, I know the lib from every show and point out each defect To the erring fellow actors I endeavour to correct My thinking is traditional, some call me prejudiced When I gasp in scorn and horror at a rehashed "Little List" I love the Savoy Operas - I quote them where I can - Yet everybody says I'm such a disagreeable man! And I can't think why! My walls at home are all adorned with every print from "Spy", The Players' cigarette cards to impress the passer-by, I bought a PC so I could subscribe to Savoynet, Of the G&S discography I'm sure I've got the set. I know about the lozenge plot and carpet quarrel too, How Arthur wrote "Come Mighty Must" when he was on the brew, I often entertain my peers with stories partisan, Yet everybody says I'm such a disagreeable man! And I can't think why! My cerebral dexterity is something to behold, I've written lengthy parodies, quite promising I'm told, I read the "Precious Nonsense", "NODA News", "The Trumpet Bray" And I write them monthly letters 'cos I've always lots to say. When Buxton comes around again you won't see me for dust, To hob-nob with the D'Oyly Carte, it really is a must, I've fraternised with Thomas Round and darling Peggy Ann, Yet everybody says I'm such a disagreeable man! And I can't think why! >6. Write an exchange of e-mails, a flame war, between any group of characters from the same, or different, operas. To: King Gama, gamarex@demon.co.uk From: King Hildebrand, hildy@castle.com Re: Forthcoming Nuptials Dearest Gama, Best wishes to you and your charming family. I am writing re the small matter of marriage consummation between my son and your lovely daughter. I realise it is fashionable to be late, but my boy is getting rather impatient. I would therefore be much obliged if you would deliver her forthwith. Best regards, Hildebrand (King) To: King Hildebrand, hildy@castle.com From: King Gama, gamarex@demon.co.uk Re: Forthcoming Nuptials Dear Hildebrand, Your son's primal urges do not concern me in the least. My daughter prefers the company of young ladies (make of that what you will) and refuses to see your son. Much as it would pleasure me to see them together, I am afraid I must refuse your request. Regards, Gama (King) To: King Gama, gamarex@demon.co.uk From: King Hildebrand, hildy@castle.com Re: Forthcoming Nuptials Gama, Now see here, we had a deal. The kids are married and that's that. My boy has got it into his head that he's in love with her, the fool, and he's driving me crazy mooching around the castle. I need to get him out of my hair, so if that girl isn't here within 24 hours, I'll be sending the boys round. Be warned. Hildebrand To: King Hildebrand, hildy@castle.com From: King Gama, gamarex@demon.co.uk Re: Ha bloody ha The boys!? If by that you mean your milksop son and his two friends, I think my three sons are more than a match for them. BTW, my daughter has told me she wants a trial separation - the marriage just isn't working out. To: King Gama, gamarex@demon.co.uk From: King Hildebrand, hildy@castle.com Re: Nuptials or else Isn't twenty years a long enough trial separation for her?? To : King Gama, gamarex@demon.co.uk From: Princess Ida, bosslady@adamant.com Re: Death to the Invader Dad, Look, I don't want to get picky about this marriage thing, but I don't particularly fancy being deflowered by some bloke I haven't seen since I was a baby. Tell this Hildebrand that I'm not leaving Castle Adamant, and, short of having a sex change, there's no way his son is getting in to have his wicked way with me. Got to sign off now - we've had an influx of new arrivals. Funny looking ladies, but they seem earnest enough... Love and hugs, Ida 7. Compose beginning couplets (not whole verses) as if "This helmet I suppose" were in fact about the brother putting clothes on, rather than taking them off "I've managed to acquire / A bra with an underwire" "I'm dressed up to the nines / My knickers are Calvin Klein's" "I'm starting off my song / By donning a leather thong" >8. Write a letter of application from a character applying for a job or position, either in another opera,...,or a real or imaginary post... To: Mr D Hasselhoff, Executive Producer >From : Mr W Shadbolt, Esq. Re: Job Vacancies Dear Mr Hasselhoff, Having seen your advertisement in "The Stage" for vacancies on your television programme, I would very much like to audition for the role of a lifeguard in "Baywatch". I would especially like to audition for the role of Second Lifeguard (I hear through the grapevine that Captain A. Fitzbattleaxe has already been cast as First Lifeguard). Please do not be put off by any accounts you may have heard regarding the incident involving a certain Colonel Fairfax and an arquebus. The reporter who wrote this article was actually dyslexic, and the facts are that I rescued the drowning man by wresting with an octopus which would have attacked him. Despite my 22-stone frame, I have been told that red swimming trunks are very flattering on me, and I have no doubt that physically I would blend very well with the rest of the cast. In addition to my obvious physical attributes, I am also very skilled in the operation of thumbscrews, racks and pincers, which could come in handy if you ever came across a traitor to the nation. I attach the details of two references. As they have both known me for approximately the same duration, you will find their accounts of me to be quite similar. Regards, Wilfred Shadbolt Head Jailer, Tower of London References: 1. Mr Jack Point's Left Eye 2. Mr Jack Point's Right Eye c/o Mr Jack Point c/o Mr Jack Point Tower Green Tower Green London London >10. Write a gift list for some of the characters Luiz : Ziljean drum kit c/w hi-hat and bongos Patience: Milking machine Jack Point: Life's supply of Prozac Mad Margaret: Bumper pack of camomile tea Phoebe: Chastity belt Iolanthe: Snorkel and goggles Major General: Life's supply of contraceptives Little Buttercup: Business cards and company car Sharon Brindle "Though I am but a girl..."  1,, Summary-line: 22-Dec Katherine Bryant #FF #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10 Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13262; Mon, 22 Dec 97 08:43:29 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20505; Mon, 22 Dec 97 08:42:28 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA13095; Mon, 22 Dec 199 7 08:42:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:42:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712221341.IAA08803@kalypso.cybercom.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: klb@cybercom.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Katherine Bryant To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FF #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] *** EOOH *** 7 08:42:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:42:27 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: klb@cybercom.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Katherine Bryant To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FF #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] (Thanks, David! This was fun. And great stuff from everyone else so far!) Katherine Bryant ----- 1 Compose a family motto for: Colonel Fairfax; General Stanley; The Duke of Plaza-Toro; anyone else you fancy. (In English please.) For Col. Fairfax: "To win the pole, t'whistle in the dark." For General Stanley: "Glory undiminished, though the stucco be unfinished." For Lord Mountararat: "Do not itch." 2 Make up a cast list from any opera with the parts to be played by characters from history. The All-Star Historical Production of "The Gondoliers" Marco Palmieri -- Chang Bunker Giuseppe Palmieri -- Eng Bunker Gianetta -- Sarah Yates Bunker Tessa -- Adalaide Yates Bunker [Note: Chang and Eng Bunker were the set of conjoined twins, born in Thailand, from whom the term "Siamese twins" comes. Sarah and Adalaide Yates were the sisters they married.] Casilda -- a young Mary Tudor Luiz -- Tutankhamen Don Alhambra -- Torquemada The Duke of Plaza-Toro -- P.T. Barnum The Duchess of Plaza-Toro -- Catherine the Great of Russia Inez -- an ancient Greek Sibyl 3 Write a paragraph (which makes some sort of sense) containing as many of the sub-titles as possible. Once upon a time, in the long-lost time when the world was young, and witches and fairies roamed (long before our present sad era, with the magic gone and The Gods Grown Old), there lived The Lass Who Loved a Sailor. She should have been Bunthorne's Bride, but she had been shut up in Castle Adamant by the evil King of Barataria, who had subjected her to The Witch's Curse that barred her forever from her beloved sailor's home in The Town of Titipu. The only way she could be saved, according to the kingdom's laws that dealt with witches and curses and ever-filled purses, was if her beloved would submit himself to The Statutory Duel with the witch who cast the spell. Because poor honest Bunthorne was The Slave of Duty -- and his duty was only too plain -- he consented. On the day of the duel, all in the kingdom attended, from the highest to the meanest: The Peer and the Peri, the old-fashioned and The Flowers of Progress. Before all these spectators, the honest sailor triumphed over the evil witch, and The Merryman and His Maid were once more reunited. And, of course, they lived happily ever after. 4 Devise an advertising slogan or slogans for any of Little Buttercup's goods. "Mrs. Cripps's Fripperies: Ribbons and Laces for Elegant Faces" "Try Buttercup's -- the favorite Jacky of every Jack Tar!" 5 Post any parody of any one song. The following is the only song yet written for a projected spoof, which was to be a "Dilbert and Sullivan" operetta. He is an engineer! For he himself has said it, And it's greatly to his credit, That he is an engineer! (That he is an engineer!) For he might have been a salesman, A lawyer, clerk, or garbageman, Or perhaps a financier! (Or perhaps a financier!) But, in spite of all temptation To change his occupation, He remains an engineer! He remains an e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-engineer! 7 Compose beginning couplets (not whole verses) as if "This Helmet I Suppose" were in fact about the brothers putting clothes on, rather than taking them off. "When Cyril's out of town I'll wear his college gown!" "I'm feeling in the dumps So I'll wear satin pumps!" "Now watch as I apply My new Brooks Brothers tie!" "I'll button my cravat, And wear a bowler hat!" 10 Write a gift list for some of the characters. Dick Deadeye -- gift certificate for a chiropractor Robin Oakapple -- enrollment in a Dale Carnegie course Bunthorne -- membership in a "bouquet of the month" offer The Usher (from "Trial") -- a legal dictionary Katisha -- a fishing pole (for all those "good fish in the sea") The Lord Chancellor -- a year's suppy of Sominex (a sleeping pill) -- Katherine Bryant klb@cybercom.net "Black and white was so easy for me But shades of grey are the colors I see" -- Billy Joel  1,, Summary-line: 22-Dec Jeffrey C. Gilman Bigler #YOU MIGHT BE A MUSIC THEORY GEEK IF. . .[NVC] (fwd) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24521; Mon, 22 Dec 97 14:56:25 EST Received: from IMBRIUM.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09098; Mon, 22 Dec 97 14:55:35 EST Received: by imbrium.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA07208; Mon, 22 Dec 97 14:55:22 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 14:55:22 -0500 Message-Id: <9712221955.AA07208@imbrium.MIT.EDU> To: cjsmith@MIT.EDU Cc: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: YOU MIGHT BE A MUSIC THEORY GEEK IF. . .[NVC] (fwd) From: Jeffrey C. Gilman Bigler Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 19.30.1 X-Zippy: CHUBBY CHECKER just had a CHICKEN SANDWICH in downtown DULUTH! Reply-To: jcb@MIT.EDU *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 14:55:22 -0500 To: cjsmith@MIT.EDU Cc: dinner@MIT.EDU Subject: YOU MIGHT BE A MUSIC THEORY GEEK IF. . .[NVC] (fwd) From: Jeffrey C. Gilman Bigler Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: GNU Emacs 19.30.1 X-Zippy: CHUBBY CHECKER just had a CHICKEN SANDWICH in downtown DULUTH! Reply-To: jcb@MIT.EDU CYN, This made me think of you. Jeff ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: Croenini Subject: YOU MIGHT BE A MUSIC THEORY GEEK IF. . .(NVC) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 02:07:39 EST To: viola@lists.best.com > You might be a music theory geek if. . . > > your favorite pickup line is, "What's your favorite augmented sixth > chord?" > > you can look at a piece by Bach and say, "You know, I think he could > have gotten a much better effect this way . . ." > > you like to march around your room to the rhythms of Stravinsky's "Le > Sacre du Printemps." > > you love to quote Walter Piston. > > you long for the good old days of movable G-clefs. > > you like polytonal music because, hey, the more keys the merrier. > > you dream in four parts. > > you feel the need to end Tchaikovsky's Pathetique Symphony with a > picardy third. > > you can improvise 16th century counterpoint with no trouble, but you > frequently forget how to tie your shoes. > > you lament the decline of serialism. > > you enjoy the tang of a tritone whenever you can. > > you like to deceive your friends and loved ones with deceptive > cadences. > > you only drink fifths, and then you laugh at the pun. > > instead of counting sheep, you count sequences. > > you only sing tunes that make good fugal subjects. > > you find free counterpoint too liberal. > > Moussorgsky's "Hopak" gives you nightmares. > > you wonder what a "Danish Sixth" would sound like. > > the Corelli Clash gives you goosebumps. > > you can hear an enharmonic modulation coming a mile away. > > you have ever done a Schenkerian analysis on "Three Blind Mice." > > you have ever tried to do a Schenkerian analysis on John Cage's > "4'33". > > you have hosted a "Gurrelieder" party. > > you have ever pondered what an augmented seventh chord would sound > like. > > bass motion by ascending thirds or a sequential pattern with roots in > ascending fifths immediately strikes you as "belabored." > > you know what the ninth overtone of the harmonic series is off the top > of your head. > > you can name ten of Palestrina's contemporaries. > > you can answer your phone with a tonal or a real answer. > > you have ever heard a wrong note in a performance of a piece by Berio, > Stockhausen, or Boulez. > > you suspiciously check all the music you hear for dangling sevenths. > > when you're feeling particularly prankish, you transpose Mozart arias > to locrian mode. > > you keep a notebook of useful diminutions. > > those "parasitic" dissonances make you queasy, especially when left > unresolved. > > you have composed variations on a theme by Anton Webern. > > you know the difference between a Courante and a Corrente. > > you have trained your dog to jump through a flaming circle of fifths. > > you have ever used the word "fortspinnung" in polite conversation. > > you feel cheated by evaded cadences. > > you have a poster of Allen Forte in your room. > > you know who Allen Forte is. > > every now and then you like to kick back and play something in > hypophrygian mode. > > you wonder why there aren't more types of seventh chords. > > you wish you had twelve fingers. > > you abbreviate your shopping list using figured bass. > > you always make sure to invert your counterpoint, just in case. > > you have ever told a joke that had this punchline: "because it was > POLYPHONIC!" > > you know dirty acronyms for the order of sharps. > > you consider all music written between 1750 and 1920 to be "rather > elementary." > > you memorize dates and times by what they would sound like in set > theory. > > you can not only identify any one of Bach's 371 Harmonized Chorales by > ear, but you also know on what page it appears in the Riemenschneider > edition and how many suspensions it has in the first seven bars. > > you got more than half of the jokes in this list. ------- End of forwarded message -------  1,, Summary-line: 23-Dec Paul McShane #FF6 Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21888; Tue, 23 Dec 97 20:17:46 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15490; Tue, 23 Dec 97 20:16:44 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA17346; Tue, 23 Dec 199 7 20:16:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:16:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <34A06036.DD7@ozemail.com.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: exexpats@ozemail.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Paul McShane To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FF6 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id UAA17346 *** EOOH *** 7 20:16:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:16:25 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: exexpats@ozemail.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Paul McShane To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FF6 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id UAA17346 This is longish, so you may prefer to save it in text form or whatever, rather than read it on line. David Duffey wrote: > 6. Write an exchange of e-mails, a flame war, between any group of=20 > characters from the same, or different, operas. With due acknowledgements to Leonard Pinsker, who beat me to the line with the use of a Paramount/Mikado theme: To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: parmount@spacific.royal Subject: Capital punishments While we were out in the Tivoli Gardens yesterday quaffing nectar and culling roses (at least, we were observing them being culled), we hit on the idea of running an Infoseek Web Search on capital punishments. Now, we'll give you fifty chances, and you won't guess what we found. There, in his own Website, was our active Despot Netter Mikado-san, holding forth on how best to deal with flirters, heir apparent-slayers and other assorted villains. Since we have a requirement in Utopia for such things as capital punishments, we wonder if Mikado-san might be good enough to comment on the range of punishments that he has at his disposal. We would also be interested in receiving attachments of any detailed plans of these punishments. BTY, a certain Lady Sophy has recently been engaged as Gouvernante for our two younger daughters. She claims to have several references from European despots, and we wonder (how we wonder!) if other Netters may have heard of her. Finally, you might be interested to hear that our idyllic isolation was interrupted last week by a visit from a merchant vessel "Bounty" with a very small crew of eight English seamen and five islanders under captain Fletcher Christian. They left after a day or two of victualling, and we fear that a few Utopian maidens may have stowed away. Paramount I "You're decidedly de trop" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: gamarex@transylnet.royal Subject: Capital punishments - reply parmount wrote: > we wonder if Mikado-san might be good enough to comment on the range=20 > of punishments that he has at his disposal. We would also be=20 > interested in receiving attachments of any detailed plans of these > punishments. DespotNet is not the place to exchange personal discussions. While some despots might be interested in capital punishments, this is not the case in our kingdom (we find that an hour's audience with our august majesty is enough to humble any malefactor). This correspondence should have been handled privately. Gama III "Make yourself as pleasant as you can" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: hildbrnd@transylnet.royal Subject: Capital punishments - reply - reply gamarex wrote: > DespotNet is not the place to exchange personal discussions. While=20 > some of us might be interested in capital punishments, this is not the=20 > case in our kingdom (we find that an hour's audience with our=20 > august majesty is enough to humble any malefactor). This=20 > correspondence should have been handled privately. Why do you always have to be so disagreeable? Many of us would be very interested in Mikado-san's response, and we, for one, are perfectly happy for the matter to have been raised on the Net. Hildebrand V "Eschew maiden-bearding" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: mikado@ninjanet.com.jp Subject: Re: Capital punishments parmount wrote: > While we were out in the Tivoli Gardens yesterday quaffing nectar and=20 > culling roses... What a strange thing to do during rose-pruning. Nectar quaffing, Ha! ha! ha! > we wonder if Mikado-san might be good enough to comment on the range=20 > of punishments that he has at his disposal. We would also be=20 > interested in receiving attachments of any detailed plans of these=20 > punishments. Certainly, my dear Paramount. We attach a few ground plans and sectional elevations. Other Netters may also be interested in perusing them. You might be interested to know that a spinning Kookie person (if that is removed) currently awaits us without. Apparently, he seeks sanctuary, and is saying something about his wife being the illegitimate mother of a friend of King Paramount's daughter. We don't quite understand all this, but it sounds salaciously delicious.=09 Mikado "Have it altered next session" Attachment: File - Punishplans To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: rudolph@speisesaal.royal Subject: Attachments (was: Capital punishments) How many times must I tell you cretins not to send attachments! The only way the Pfennig-Halbpfennig treasury can afford my DespotNet indulgence is to use the Speisesaal provider, which does not support attachments. My computer crashed again, and I have just spent 3 hours in recovery mode. Rudolph, Grand Duke of Pfennig-Halbpfennig 18A Public Square, Speisesaal. And we have a fax (receiving mode only): (43) (0512) 111 0001 "In for a penny, in for a pound" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: jove@olympus.royal Subject: Problems You think you've got problems! Bah! How would you feel if a bunch of commoners started to usurp all your functions, run your country and make a right old hash of things? Makes me sick hearing you all whine. J. Pluvius "Rome wasn't built in a day" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: gamarex@transylnet.royal Subject: Attachments - reply rudolph wrote: > My computer crashed again, and I have just spent 3 hours in recovery=20 > mode. I told you so! Now somebody might listen to me, and take heed. Gama III "Make yourself as pleasant as you can" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: parmount@spacific.royal Subject: Re: Capital punishments mikado wrote: > Apparently, he seeks sanctuary, and is saying something about his wife = > being the illegitimate mother of a friend of King Paramount's=20 > daughter. We don't quite understand all this, but it sounds=20 > salaciously delicious.=09 It is most improper for you to send innuendoes like this across a public bulletin board such as DespotNet. Paramount I "You're decidedly de trop" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: alhambra@torquenet.com.es Subject: Lady Sophy parmount wrote: > BTY, a certain Lady Sophy has recently been engaged as Gouvernante=20 > for our two younger daughters. She claims to have several references=20 > from European despots, and we wonder (how we wonder!) if other Netters > may have heard of her. She was resident in Spain for a while, and I had the honour of meeting her a few times. His Majesty, I understand, was quite smitten. The best word to describe her was =85 "jimp". Alhambra del Bolero "Death is the only true unraveller" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: hildbrnd@transylnet.royal Subject: Lady Sophy - reply parmount wrote: > BTY, a certain Lady Sophy has recently been engaged as Gouvernante for > our two younger daughters. She claims to have several references from > European despots, and we wonder (how we wonder!) if other Netters may=20 > have heard of her. O, ho, Paramount, you old dog! Sophy was the talk of the crowned heads of Europe. Yes, she visited Hungary for a while, but I won't go into the details any further. Hildebrand V "Eschew maiden-bearding" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: pirking@penzance.co.uk Subject: Re: Lady Sophy - reply hildbrnd wrote: > Sophy was the talk of the crowned heads of Europe. Yes, she visited=20 > Hungary for a while, but I won't go into the details any further. So, who's the old dog! I have orphan wondered why we have heard all about the sires of Hilarion and Ida, but nothing about their dams. Richard "Be true to the song you sing" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: fairy_queen@arcadee.co.uk Subject: Disgusted I have been "lurking" in DespotNet for a while, and would like to say that, despite the many attractions associated with reading the expressed views of fellow-Despots, I am unhappy about the recent expressions of rage and sexual innuendo that have been expressed. If I yielded to a natural impulse, I should withdraw from the DespotNet discussion group.=20 But I mortify this inclination; I wrestle with it, and it lies beneath my feet. Mrs. Willis "Anything in moderation" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: parmount@spacificnet.royal Subject: Re: Disgusted fairy_queen wrote: > I have been "lurking" in DespotNet for a while, and would like=20 > to say that.... Fairy Queen has got a tongue! Paramount I "You're decidedly de trop" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: mikado@ninjanet.com.jp Subject: Re: Capital punishments parmount wrote: > It is most improper for you to send innuendoes like this across a=20 > public bulletin board such as DespotNet. My sincerest apologies, dear friend. Unfortunately, the reply function on DespotNet defaults to "Reply to All", and although I had intended to send you a private message, I neglected to adjust the protocols. Mikado "Have it altered next session" To: Despot_Net@Bridgewater.edu From: Netmastr@Bridgewater.edu Subject: DespotNet protocol In view of the continuing complaints about personal matters being raised across the net, I have arranged, effective immediately, for the "Reply" function on DespotNet to be altered to default to replying to the individual sender only. If you wish to reply to a message so the all Netters see your reply, you will need to adjust the "To" field accordingly. Rafe. [Omnes: Oh, horror! etc., etc.]  1, edited,, Summary-line: 29-Dec Mary Finn #FF #3 (long) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28551; Mon, 29 Dec 97 09:42:24 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05726; Mon, 29 Dec 97 09:41:35 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA02752; Mon, 29 Dec 199 7 09:41:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:41:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <97Dec29.093523est.770-2@gateway.intersys.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: finn@intersys.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mary Finn To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FF #3 (long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id JAA02752 *** EOOH *** 7 09:41:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:41:10 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: finn@intersys.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mary Finn To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FF #3 (long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id JAA02752 This was intended to be a paragraph, but it insisted on becoming an entire children's story. Producing it took me portions of several days when I should heve been working, but it's no use fighting with ideas with ideas that want to be written. In the course of it, I almost forgot that the whole purpose was to incorporate all the G&S subtitles. They are all in there, albeit slightly disguised. >3. Write a paragraph (which makes some sort of sense) containing as >many of the sub-titles as possible. Thorne Periwinkle and his new wife Titwillow were very much in love. They billed and cooed, and called each other by pet names as they cavorted among the flowers. Of progress and of politics they knew nothing, and cared less. But such innocence, however pure and joyful, proved to be their downfall. There was a new power in the land of Barataria. Lord Ickybun, nephew to the King, had come of age. He was to govern the area around Sancho Panza. All the people of the countryside were summoned to a grand fair given in honor of the Peer. And the Periwinkle=92s, who lived behind the hill beyond the town, hitched their best cart to their happiest mare, all a-jingle with bells woven into her mane, and set off singing. "I do hear," said Titwillow, at the end of the second verse, "that this new lord has made some strange and terrible laws. "Do you think there's anything in it, Thorney-pu?" "Not to worry, Titter-dove," Thorne replied cheerfully. "Laws can't bother us, as long as we're together." The buildings around the town square were resplendent with bunting and pennants fluttering from all the pointy bits. Jugglers juggled, and tumblers tumbled, and street vendors sold cheese and cider and spicy meat on sticks. Then Tantatara! the trumpets trumpeted, and everyone stopped what they were doing to watch Lord Ickybun and his household parade through the streets. Thorne and Titwillow could hardly believe their bucolic eyes. It was if all the wealth in the world had been poured onto the backs and fingers and even feet of the entourage marching before them. Thorne, in his very best tunic, looked a pauper next to the lowliest member of Lord Ickybun's house. He couldn't even compete with the rags and patches (sable rags and silk patches) of Harlequin, the merryman. And his maid - Lord Ickybun's scullery maid - even she practically dripped with brightly colored gems! "Perhaps they're only glass." Thorne murmured to his new wife. It wasn't loud, but it was enough to attract high-born attention. In less time than it took to blink, Lord Ickybun had pulled Titwillow (who was exceedingly pretty) out of the crowd, until she stood alone on the hot stone of the square. The new Peer peered at her intently, with his head cocked slightly to one side. "New decree!" the Lordling suddenly bellowed. "I declare my betrothal to - er - to this young person. All hail the future Lady Ickybun!" Thorne's bride didn't know what to do. There was a huge commotion. All of a sudden people were cheering and dancing and throwing flowers, which was a little dangerous because of the thorns, and oh, where was Thorne in all this chaos? She had to tell Lord Ickybun about her husband, but how could she make herself heard over all the din? "I'm already married!" she shrieked at Lord Ickybun, but his Lordship only smiled delightedly. "I'm ready too!" he yelled back, as he drew her arm through his and continued on his way. Titwillow gave up and concentrated on dodging flowers. As soon as things calmed down she would try again. Or perhaps Thorne would come and explain. Where was Thorne? Thorne was beside himself, a neat trick for those who can do it. He had lost sight of Titwillow during those first stunned moments, but now he could identify the nucleus of the swirling crowd. It was heading inexorably towards the Witch's Palace. Only last month the witch of Sancho Panza had sealed his marriage to Titwillow. If the Witch didn't remember her, or if Lord Ickybun could make her break the seal -- "NO!" With a roar that could almost be heard above the crowd, Thorne started battling his way towards the Palace. He tumbled tumblers, and tossed jugglers out of the way as if they were so many brightly colored balls. It was hard work. Thorne was wiry and strong, but he was dwarfed by many of the men he tried to move aside, and some of the women, too. At first he tried to say "Excuse me" as he pummeled and prodded and stepped on toes, but he soon had no breath for anything but trying to reach his wife's side. Lord Ickybun's entourage had reached the steps to the Witch's -- "Curse him!" Thorne sobbed, and redoubled his efforts. Then finally, shoving aside the last cheering minion, Thorne raced up the steps, and turned on the next to last one, his arms spread wide and his chest heaving. Silence pooled around him and rippled out across the square. Lord Ickybun stopped in amazement on the fifth-from-the-top step. "Who are you?" he demanded coldly. Thorne had no breath to speak. He shook his head. It was Titwillow who, in a timid voice, answered the question. "That's my husband, Thorne Periwinkle. I'm sorry to disoblige your Lordship, but I am ... already married." Now the silence froze solid, as nearly tangible as the noise which preceded it. A red flush worked its way up Lord Ickybun's neck. To his chin. His ears. When it reached the top of his head, he spoke. "New decree! All persons protesting a noble betrothal must duel to the death with the Royal Champion, or choose exile for life. What say you, peasant? Will you duel?" The Royal Champion was two times the size of Thorne, three times as strong, and four times as mean. Besides, Thorne still hadn't caught his breath. He shook his head again. "Exile then." The new Peer was nothing if not decisive. Lord Ickybun raised his voice: "A proclamation!" and Tantatara! Went the trumpets. "For crimes committed this day in the town of ..." "Titti-pu!" Thorne gasped in anguish, "Wait for me!" "... land of Barataria, I hereby pronounce this sentence of exile in accordance with the power and sovereignty conferred upon me by my Uncle, the King: Of Barataria, nor sight, nor sound, nor soil, nor breeze shall grace thy life. Be gone!" "Take him to the docks" his Lordship added irritably, because nobody seemed to know what to do. "Put him on a ship." Titwillow fainted. And so Thorne Periwinkle sailed away from Barataria. It would be pointless to describe all his adventures, which were much the same as any exiles'. Suffice it to say that he was shipwrecked, and rescued, made a fortune, and lost it, was captured by pirates, became a pirate, and betrayed his pirate band. When he had money (which wasn't often) he bought souvenirs. Eventually, as all exiles are eventually, Thorne was sold into slavery aboard a ship called The Bonny Lass. This made him sad, because he never forgot his bonny lass, his Titwillow, back in Barataria. Once, when he was shipwrecked, he even sent her a message, stuck in a bottle and cast upon the waves in the approved manner. I will return, the message said. But that was years ago now, and instead of returning, Thorne learned the life of the slave. Of duty there was an endless supply. Of pleasure, precious little. Sometimes though, when the stars were particularly bright and the grog particularly sweet, there would be singing aboard The Lass. "Who loved a sailor?" the boatswain would sing, and one by one the crew answered: "I, said the land..." "I, said the sea..." "I said the wind..." And Thorne would make up a verse of his own: "I, said Titwillow, I love my Thorne still. He begged me to wait, so steadfastly I will." But deep in his heart, Thorne was afraid Titwillow wouldn't wait, that she despised him as a coward because he didn't fight for her, his bride. What would any woman do, after being abandoned, then loaded with jewels and swept off to a life of luxury in the castle? Adamantly refusing to answer that question, even in his thoughts, Thorne applied himself to his work. He rowed and swabbed the decks, and cried and cursed himself as a plaything of the Gods. Grown old, eventually, too old to row or swab, Thorne was pensioned off. And the boatswain, who was not a bad sort, even said The Bonny Lass would take Thorne to any one place in the world he wanted to go. "Barataria." Thorne said without even thinking, even though he knew the moment he touched land, he would have to fight the statutory duel. So Thorne Periwinkle sailed back to Barataria. When he landed at the docks, on a wet autumn evening, Thorne expected the Royal Champion would be waiting for him. A new champion, of course after all these years. He would be twice as big, three times as strong, four times as mean, and nearly five times as young as Thorne. But there was no one. Not at the docks, not in the square. Thorne begged a stick of spicy meat from a homeward bound vendor, and asked for news. Lord Ickybun, the vendor said, had choked on a fish bone not two days after Thorne's exile, and all of his crazy decrees had been repealed by the King. Too late to help Thorne, of course, but there you were. So Titwillow wasn't living a life of luxury in the castle! Maybe, just maybe -- Dizzily thanking the vendor, Thorne took off at as near to a run as he could managed. He trotted to the outskirts of Sancho Panza, then shuffled to the hill beyond the town, and finally stumbled to the door of the farm behind the hill. A woman opened the door. She was old and frail, with gray hair, wrinkles, and sad eyes. But a fire burned in the cottage behind her, and in the place of honor on the mantle piece sat an old bottle, with a scrap of brittle paper. "Titwillow," said Thorne. "Thorne," said Titwillow. "You waited." "You returned." And then together, because they always used to speak together, they both smiled and said: "I'm glad." For all we know, Thorne and Titiwillow Periwinkle live together still in the house behind the hill beyond the town. And if they are old, and if they are no longer innocent, and if they don't call each other by pet names, that's okay. Because they are still very much in love. Copyright 1997 by Mary A. Finn. ********************************************************** Mary A. Finn phone: 617-225-3052 Senior Marketing Writer fax: 617-494-1631 InterSystems Corp. email: finn@intersys.com **********************************************************  1,, Summary-line: 31-Dec David Duffey #Re: Christmas cryptics ANSWERS Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19976; Wed, 31 Dec 97 04:35:36 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07981; Wed, 31 Dec 97 04:34:31 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA00068; Wed, 31 Dec 199 7 04:34:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 04:34:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <480100f0e8dduffey@argonet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Christmas cryptics ANSWERS X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <199712221842.NAA28139@kalypso.cybercom.net> X-Mailer: Pluto 0.38e for RISC OS 3.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** 7 04:34:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 04:34:22 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Christmas cryptics ANSWERS X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <199712221842.NAA28139@kalypso.cybercom.net> X-Mailer: Pluto 0.38e for RISC OS 3.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Philip S and the ultra-hardworking Mary Finn also got everything correct, and Paul craftily incorporated some answers into fancy's fiddle; I choose Katerine's answers, however, as it was her first, but not I hope last, attempt. HNY David Katherine Bryant wrote: > 1 Phone Mars if confused. (11 in 4 words) > H.M.S. Pinafore (anagram of "phone Mars if") -- though I'm not sure I > really count the H, M, and S as separate words... (Pinafore) > 2 If that is removed, Kookie person spins. (4) > Ko-Ko ("Kookie" - "i.e." (that is), then anagrammed ("spins") ) (Mikado) > 3 From the sound of it, the toy will have difficulty hearing > chorus. (10) > Gondoliers (gone-doll-ears) (Gondoliers) > 4 Actor (originally hurt I hear?), was before active SavoyNetter so > confused. (11) > Preposteros (pre (before), poster (active SavoyNetter), os (anagram of >"so")) (Thespis) NOTE: no-one noted the reference to the original actor, Payne. > 5 A love sick maiden; alternatively act with tact like personnel > manager. (9,7) > Constance Partlet (act+tact+personnel, anagrammed) (Sorceror) > 6 Character discovered in chance liaison. (5) > Celia (chanCELIAson) (Iolanthe) > 7 Stage-hands regularly tense about spectacular entrance. (7,8,9) > General Stanley's daughters (anagram of "Stage-hands regularly tense") > (Pirates) > 8 Consult brothers or I'm in a mess which only a lawyer can sort > out. (21 in 3 words) > Mr. Bunthorne's Solicitor (anagram of "consult brothers or I'm in") > (Patience) > 9 A dozen for deliverance. (18 in 4 words) > Either "gentlemen of the jury" or "the chorus of jurymen" -- a dozen men > who can vote for deliverance? (Trial By Jury) > 10 Dracula's leaders meet Wagner's lawyer. (12 in 2 words) > Dr. Tannhauser (first two letters of "Dracula," then Wagner character) > (The Grand Duke) > 11 Make king safe with first man and a worker where they would be least > expected. (6,7) > Castle Adamant (castle=chess move to protect the king; first man=Adam; > worker=ant) (Princess Ida) > 12 Illegitimate son of Katisha or Lady Jane? (6,13) > Arthur Fitzbattleaxe (fitz=prefix for illegitimate son; Katisha and Lady > Jane are both "battleaxe contralto" parts) (Utopia, Ltd.) > 13 Confused, then ashamed, over the big black block. (11 in two words) > The headsman (anagram of "then ashamed") (Yeomen) > 14 Flapper gets parasite to assume a false identity. (13 in two words) > Robin Oakapple (flapper=bird=robin; oakapple=growth formed on oak trees > by *parasitic* larvae of gall-flies; Robin Oakapple is Sir Ruthven's > "false identity") (Ruddigore) -- The Family Duffey 107 Fulbridge Road Peterborough PE1 3LE (+44) (0)1733 552791  1,, Summary-line: 1-Jan Richard N. Freedman #Re: Dumb Question Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27803; Thu, 1 Jan 98 18:03:02 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21661; Thu, 1 Jan 98 18:01:57 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA23234; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:01:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:01:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <34AC1FBE.321@null.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: rnf@null.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Richard N. Freedman" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Dumb Question X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:01:55 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: rnf@null.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Richard N. Freedman" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Dumb Question X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) > Bob lang wrote: > > What is the best way to send funds to the UK from the USA if the > > recipient cannot negotiate VISA or other credit cards [I face the dilemma of posting this too often, and annoying the "regulars", or not often enough, and missing the new members. I have adopted the expedient of posting when such a query occurs.] I opened an account in sterling, at Barclays Bank PLC, for this very purpose. I will accept checks in dollars sent to Richard N. Freedman 89-7 Staniford Street Auburndale, MA 02166-1128 and will send cheques in sterling in return. Every now and again I must visit the local office of the AAA, where I can buy travelers cheques in sterling with no service charge, and I mail them to Barclays to replenish my account. As a result amounts which require such replenishment might be subject to a slight delay, but I try to keep the balance sufficient that cheques up to, say, a hundred pounds, can be drawn immediately. I convert at the rate given by the Federal Reserve Bank of NY, http://www.ny.frb.org/pihome/mktrates/forex10.shtml, plus a trifle to cover the postage of my mailing the cheque to you, and my occasional mailings to Barclays. "Customers" should negotiate exact amounts by email prior to mailing checks. Although it has never been requested, I could similarly accept a deposit to my Barclays account and issue a check in dollars. -- Richard N. Freedman (http://www.wp.com/rnf) rnf@null.net President, New England Gilbert and Sullivan Society  1,, Summary-line: 4-Jan David Cookson #Source of innocent merriment (a bit off-topic) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14701; Sun, 4 Jan 98 19:55:18 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17126; Sun, 4 Jan 98 19:54:11 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA11480; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:54:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:54:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801041945_MC2-2E10-E30B@compuserve.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: davidcookson@compuserve.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Cookson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Source of innocent merriment (a bit off-topic) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:54:01 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: davidcookson@compuserve.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Cookson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Source of innocent merriment (a bit off-topic) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Hi everyone It's long been known what fun can be had with spell-checkers and their inability to recognise names and therefore come up with amusing alternatives. Well, I've found a trick worth two of that, I think ... AltaVista, that excellent search engine, offer a free machine-translation service at http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate? What I did was to type some text in English, asking it to translate into German. Then I typed the German it had given me in, and asked it to translate into English. Here's what it gave me : "Poor children, how it me - I loathe, whose hands are certainly impregnated in infamy, but its inside as the inside of a small child is! But which is a poor Baronet for doing, if a complete figure gallery of the ancestors down from their fields step and threaten it with one excruciating to death, if he hesitates to determine its daily crime? But, hectar hectar, I am even with them. I receive my crime over the first thing in the morning, and then, I do good - I do good - to hectar hectar, for the remainder of the daily I do good! Stole two days, there, from I a child and structured one orphan Asylum. Yesterday I robbed a bank and equipped bishopric. Today I carry away rose Maybud and atone with a cathedral. This is, which it should be the sport and the toy of a figure gallery. But I am bitterlich revenged after them. I give it all for nation, and nobody looks at all after its faces again." WSG is now turning in his grave at 78+ rpm !! I think I might have a stab at Princess Ida's inaugural address next ... David Cookson davidcookson@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/davidcookson/bookshop.htm  1,, Summary-line: 5-Jan Katherine Bryant #More translation silliness Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05496; Mon, 5 Jan 98 09:15:40 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14643; Mon, 5 Jan 98 09:14:33 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA14953; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:14:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:14:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801051408.JAA28713@kalypso.cybercom.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: klb@cybercom.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Katherine Bryant To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: More translation silliness X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:14:23 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: klb@cybercom.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Katherine Bryant To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: More translation silliness X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] That AltaVista translation site is proving a highly entertaining time- waster, indeed... Witness what happens to this passage of Rose Maybud's when translated into German and back again: Keep no one in unnecessary suspense. Behold, I will not keep you in unnecessary suspense. In accepting an offer of marriage, do so with apparent hesitation. I take you, with a certain show of reluctance. The twice-translated result: Maintenance none in the not necessary voltage. Behold, hold I you not in the not necessary voltage. If you assume a supply of the connection, do in such a way with obvious hesitating. I take you, but with a certain appearance of the dislike. (I'm not sure I *want* to know how "suspense" turned into "voltage"...) Katherine -- Katherine Bryant klb@cybercom.net "Black and white was so easy for me But shades of grey are the colors I see" -- Billy Joel  1,, Summary-line: 7-Jan David Duffey #Re: Frank Muir Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19243; Wed, 7 Jan 98 04:36:34 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12844; Wed, 7 Jan 98 04:35:26 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA28307; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:35:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:35:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4804a2cb04dduffey@argonet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Frank Muir X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <48049e45d4dduffey@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 0.38e for RISC OS 3.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:35:15 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Frank Muir X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <48049e45d4dduffey@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pluto 0.38e for RISC OS 3.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Paul McShane wrote: > Frank Muir, that brilliant and successful British comedian, > scriptwriter, and head of comedy at the BBC for many years, died late > last week at the age of 77. The world of literate humour is the poorer for Frank's passing, but infinitely the richer for his life. He gave the impression of being a gentleman. He once entertained Groucho Marx: "Groucho wore a houndstooth-patterned raincoat and a navy-blue beret throughout the meal, in fact every time we met him. We ate soft-shelled crabs (a mistake), and afterwards I jollied Groucho into singing. He gave us his version of Will Fyffe singing 'Roamin in the Gloamin'. He had toured England's music halls with Will Fyffe back in the mists of time. Then we got onto Gilbert and Sullivan and Groucho really began to enjoy himself. Spurred on by me he gave the diners at Sardi's his fine, stirring and surprisingly loud version of 'A Wandering Minstrel I'. By the time we had demolished between us 'Poor Wandering One' and 'Three Little Maids From School Are We', the other diners were applauding and the drunks were singing along with us." But please ... please ... may I tell you his pig story? A good man might admit that his girlfriend or wife was quite a good driver; he might, in a warm moment, tell her that she was as good a driver as he. But how many of us men are saintly enough to admit to our women- folk that they are better, shrewder drivers than we are? And yet, and yet. I don't know how well you know St Anne's Hill in Surrey, whose sharp corners and gentle slopes (before the motorway was built) carried the motorist up from Thorpe and down into Chertsey, but I was taking that rural route one morning in my old, fifteenth-hand Lagonda. I was 'think' driving, driving idly, well on my side of the road, hoping that a bright idea might alight like a mustard seed on the damp flannel of my brain, when round the corner ahead came a woman driver at speed, in a clapped- out, dented Morris Minor. She missed the wing of my beautiful Lagonda by a centimeter, wound down her window furiously and yelled at me, "PIG". "Women drivers!" I snorted, drove on round the corner and hit a pig. Requiat a pace David -- The Family Duffey 107 Fulbridge Road Peterborough PE1 3LE (+44) (0)1733 552791  1, answered,, Summary-line: 7-Jan Garry Zacheiss #Video tapes Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05001; Wed, 7 Jan 98 18:58:10 EST Received: from M4-167-2.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00572; Wed, 7 Jan 98 18:57:02 EST Received: by m4-167-2.MIT.EDU (SMI-8.6/4.7) id SAA05051; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:57:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199801072357.SAA05051@m4-167-2.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Video tapes Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:57:00 EST From: Garry Zacheiss *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Video tapes Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:57:00 EST From: Garry Zacheiss Hi Dave, EC finally decided tonight to approve CarolYN's idea for a MITGASP video library. We were wondering if we could get a single copy of every show that you have filmed for us. Also, do you have any idea when would be a good time for you to get the Ruddigore tapes to us? We tentatively have the video party scheduled for the 31st of Jan. Is this too soon for you to have the tapes to us? Let me know what works best for you. I hope to hear from you soon. --Garry  1,, Summary-line: 8-Jan Garry Zacheiss #Re: Video tapes Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25722; Thu, 8 Jan 98 03:22:22 EST Received: from ROCKY-HORROR.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01043; Thu, 8 Jan 98 03:21:14 EST Received: by Rocky-Horror.MIT.EDU (5.x/4.7) id AA07287; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:21:12 -0500 Message-Id: <9801080821.AA07287@Rocky-Horror.MIT.EDU> To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Video tapes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:01:22 EST." <9801080201.AA00989@milo.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 03:21:12 EST From: Garry Zacheiss *** EOOH *** To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Video tapes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:01:22 EST." <9801080201.AA00989@milo.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 03:21:12 EST From: Garry Zacheiss Hi Dave, Thanks for the quick response. We won't be needing the tapes before the party, so if you could bring them to the party, that would be great. Let me know how the search for the tapes of all our shoews is going as you make progress. We won't be needing them any time soon, though, so think of it as a long term project, Thanks again for all your help. --Garry  1,, Summary-line: 12-Jan TZS #Re: Sorcerer songs -Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27810; Mon, 12 Jan 98 11:24:54 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02690; Mon, 12 Jan 98 11:22:14 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA25843; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:21:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:21:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: TZS@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: TZS To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Sorcerer songs -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:21:53 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: TZS@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: TZS To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Sorcerer songs -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) In a message dated 98-01-12 10:17:01 EST, you write: << Divorced, out of work, Permanently pissed. He aimed low in life - And missed. Fraser. >> It reminds me of two of my favorite lines: 1. I AM CLEARLY IN UNDER MY HEAD 2. I MAY BE MARVELLOUS BUT I THINK YOU'RE WRONG (More TZS HEARFOAMS, not for publication but for the free use of all!) Tom Shepard  1,, Summary-line: 13-Jan Andrew Crowther #Metre and rhyme Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10675; Tue, 13 Jan 98 14:28:09 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05120; Tue, 13 Jan 98 14:26:57 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA08339; Tue, 13 Jan 199 8 14:18:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:18:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980113191043.36276402@pop.brad.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Metre and rhyme X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** 8 14:18:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:18:25 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Metre and rhyme X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) One of the interesting features of Savoynet is that S'netters sometimes post their "encore verses" to some of the songs; and occasionally we are treated to some of the new verses used in professional productions. Now I hope I don't offend anyone if I suggest that the standard of these verses is, let us say, variable, and that most of them don't come up to the minimum technical standard set by Gilbert. Of course I'm setting aside the aspects of his talent that make him one of the greatest lyricists in the English language: I only mean in the matter of writing verses which fit the metre and which rhyme properly. The verses posted by some S'netters are excellent (much as it pains me to say so, even better than my own); some of the supposedly "professional" verses are frankly awful, particularly those invented by R-----d S---t. Anyway, the point is that I thought it might be useful all round if I posted a few words explaining the basics of metre and rhyme, particularly Gilbert's use of them. Metre. Gilbert's verse tends to use very regular metres (though there are some exceptions): that is to say, stressed syllables come at regular intervals. Thus we have: i AM the VE-ry MO-del OF a MO-dern MA-jor GIN-er-al Here the stress comes on every other syllable. To be technical for a moment, an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed one is called an "iamb". The reverse - stressed followed by unstressed - is called a "trochee". Both these units are "feet": thus the above line consists of seven iambic feet, concluding with two unstressed syllables (which probably have a name, but I don't know it). But you don't really need to know the names of these things: the essential point is that you realise the above line consists of an alternation of unstressed and stressed syllables. The other basic metre you need to know about consists of a stress which comes on every third syllable: when you're LY-ing a-WAKE with a DIS-mal head-ACHE and re-POSE is ta-BOOED by an-XI-e-ty This sequence of unstressed-unstressed-stressed is called an "anapaest": this line consists of seven anapaestic feet followed by two unstressed syllables. The reverse of this kind of foot (stressed-unstressed-unstressed) is called a "dactyl". Now that you have memorised these words, please forget them. If you're not used to thinking of words as consisting of stressed and unstressed syllables, you may think it an unnatural way of going on. But if you're going to write lyrics, it's something you need to know, which you need to make natural to your way of thinking. Musical stresses need to match the verbal stresses exactly if the lyrics are to work properly. A syllable too many, a syllable too few, or a misplaced stress jar on the ear: it will sound wrong, though the listener may not be able to explain why. Of course many lyrics are written in irregular metres, particularly if they are to fit pre-written music. Some of Gilbert's verse has irregular metre: when I was a LAD i SERVED a TERM as OFF-ice BOY to an att-ORN-ey's FIRM But this is a complication which need not worry us here. Rhyme. This is where defects in lyric-writing are most obvious. It is clear from many modern lyrics that the writers have no clear idea what a rhyme _is_. I should add that I mean full rhyme, rather than half-rhyme, assonance and so on, which have excellent pedigrees but have no place in a discussion of classic lyric-writing as practised by Gilbert. I agree with Ira Gershwin, who believed that the staple of the lyricist should be "perfect rhyme's jingle". Let us take a simple example of a rhyme: "story/glory". It is a rhyme because: 1) the first halves of the two words are different; and 2) the second halves are the same. In a full rhyme such as this, the second half - the half which is the same in both words - should begin with the vowel of the word's accented syllable. In the case of "story/glory", the accented syllable in each word is the first, so "-ory" is repeated in the two words. This probably sounds too obvious to be worth saying, but the point is that a rhyme on the last syllable of "story" - a rhyme with "cloudy", for instance - would not be a full rhyme. In Sir Joseph Porter's song, "Navy" would normally have to rhyme with something like "gravy" - it would have to be a two-syllable rhyme. But by laying an unusual stress on the last syllable - "Navee" - Gilbert is able to make an acceptable rhyme with "me", "sea", etc. Gilbert was extremely adept in the difficult art of three-syllable rhyming, an art which seems to be almost completely lost today. Most pastiches of the Major-General's song make this distressingly clear. Now in the first line of this song Gilbert rhymes "Gineral" with "mineral". In both words the accented syllable is the first, so Gilbert is forced to find two words ending with "-ineral". For this reason Gilbert has to mis-spell "General", which is much more difficult to rhyme. (If I remember correctly, in a piece of discarded material for _Pirates_ he rhymes "General" with "ten or all", which almost works as a rhyme, but is a bit of a strain.) So now we see why the Major-General is forced to the horrible rhyme "strategy/sat a gee". "Sat a gee" is nonsense, of course: "sat on a gee-gee" would at least be grammatical, though that wouldn't work even as a strained rhyme. But what else rhymes with "strategy"? We are looking for another word, remember, which ends "-ategy". (There was a pastiche on Savoynet a few months ago, as I remember, which thought it was enough to find a word ending in "-y" - a very disappointing cop-out.) The only word I can suggest is the Indian name "Chatterjee". Of course, the flexibility of English pronunciation means that a word seeming to require a three-syllable rhyme can be made to require a one-syllable rhyme without much strain - thus Samuel's couplet: We'd better pause, or danger may befall, Their father is a Major-General. But the Major-General's song is written in a scheme which commits Gilbert to three-syllable rhymes, and he is forced to obey his own rules scrupulously. I wouldn't have mentioned the requirement that all rhymes in a set lyrical scheme should have the same number of syllables, only Richard Suart's rewrite of "Small titles and orders" in the 1997 Proms _Gondoliers_ perpetrated the three-syllable "lottery/mockery" where two-syllable rhymes were required. (Even as a three-syllable rhyme it doesn't work.) Gilbert was an extremely good lyricist. But even he was sometimes forced to force the rules of perfect rhyme past breaking-point. In "Sighing softly to the river" we find "river/ever" and "rover/lover". (BTW, in all the recordings of this I've ever heard "ever" is sung "e'er". Is this Sullivan's doing?) In "Whom thou hast chained" Gilbert uses the "poetic" rhyme "slavery/die". And there are of course many occasions when he simply invents a word to make a rhyme - "animalculous", "ablutioner". This shows how difficult it is to rhyme in English without sometimes breaking the rules. But my advice to the lyricist following in Gilbert's footsteps is: Don't break the rules, unless you really have to. If all else fails, invent a word, stress a word unnaturally, or distort pronunciation - but only as the very last resort. There's only one thing more that I think I ought to say. The above is only a sketch of the technical basics. There still remains the small matter of the words you use in following these rules. Gilbert, at his best, wrote technically perfect lyrics which also managed to be colloquial - see, for instance, Rose Maybud's verse in "Happily coupled are we". They fit the natural rhythms of speech. Inversions for the sake of rhyme - e.g. "soldier stout" - should be used sparingly, if at all. Gilbert used them, but his successors have tended to avoid them. You may decide to follow Gilbert on this, but if so you ought to try and follow Gilbert also in the matter of not over-using this trick. Wherever possible, keep to the patterns of colloquial speech. And don't be satisfied with a "clever" rhyme which conveys no meaning. That's enough of that, I think. There will now be an intermission to allow for the throwing of half-bricks and rotten fruit. - Andrew. Andrew Crowther 82 the Avenue, A.J.Crowther@bradford.ac.uk Clayton, Bradford, (01274) 882143 West Yorkshire BD14 6RT. Great Britain. Visit Babliophile, my W.S. Gilbert page, at: http://www.student.brad.ac.uk/ajcrowth/babphile.htm "...what is hailed as a new style or a new school in literature often consists of doing as a novelty what a Victorian did long ago as a joke." - G.K. Chesterton, "On Phases of Eccentricity", in _All I Survey_ (1933)  1,, Summary-line: 13-Jan Scott Gagnon #Re: Last minute party (sleepover) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12909; Tue, 13 Jan 98 14:36:08 EST Received: from hup.harvard.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06023; Tue, 13 Jan 98 14:35:00 EST Received: by hup.harvard.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22624; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:35:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:35:47 -0500 (EST) From: Scott Gagnon To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Last minute party (sleepover) In-Reply-To: <9801131931.AA00589@milo.mit.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:35:47 -0500 (EST) From: Scott Gagnon To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Last minute party (sleepover) In-Reply-To: <9801131931.AA00589@milo.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Indeed! With auditions and what not and then trying to put together a rehearsal schedule, I prob won't know exactly what my schedule is looking like for at least a few more days. But the idea sounds like a *very* good one! I'll run it on past the other half, over dinner this eve! d:-) On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, David C. Jedlinsky wrote: > > You know, with an all night party, it is possible for one to show up > the next day (say, 1:00AM), and only be fashionably late. > > But if it is not feasible, perhaps the four of us could get together > some other time? Ruth and I have never really done the "two couple > evening" thing that my parents were so fond of (preferring the party > approach), but there's a first time for everything. > > -Dave >  1,, Summary-line: 15-Jan Arthur Robinson #Re: Meter and rhyme -- a tangent (long) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24206; Thu, 15 Jan 98 13:56:59 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28121; Thu, 15 Jan 98 13:55:47 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA28518; Thu, 15 Jan 199 8 13:55:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:55:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: awrobins@indiana.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Meter and rhyme -- a tangent (long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199801151648.LAA29940@kalypso.cybercom.net> *** EOOH *** 8 13:55:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:55:39 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: awrobins@indiana.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Meter and rhyme -- a tangent (long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199801151648.LAA29940@kalypso.cybercom.net> An interesting question. There are some good lyricists whose rhymes are only adequate; and some excellent lyricists who can't really be rated for their meter because they normally wrote lyrics to existing music (e.g., Sheldon Harnick and Ira Gershwin--it takes even greater skill, I think, to write _good_ lyrics to existing music, but it is also easier in a way to write words when the composer has already determined the metre). Some Broadway lyrics look good on paper but don't sing well; others look dull on paper but sound great when sung. But I digress... Sylvia Fine's lyrics are very clever (I especially like "The Maladjusted Jester"), and she ranks close to Gilbert in use of meter, though I wouldn't put her in the same class for content (some lines of the jester song, for instance, are brilliantly funny, others are clever but don't seem to mean much; e.g., "I proudly was loudly forlorn"--maybe "loudly" refers to a baby sobbing, but why "proudly," other than the internal rhyme? "Proudly forlorn" suggests to me a baby remaining aloofly silent). I agree with Fraser Charlton's nominations as worthy candidates. Sondheim and Porter, since they were their own composers, had to invent their own meters. Porter seems to me the closest to Gilbert in meter, and he is excellent at rhyming, especially internal rhyming. Sondheim is unusual in that his lyrics contain rhymes that are intricate and original yet unforced, and he also knows when NOT to rhyme. (Lorenz Hart, much as I like him, often overrhymes.) Michael Flanders is another of my favorites, and near the top for humor; but his rhymes are not as impressive as Gilbert's. (This is not necessarily a bad thing. Impressive rhyming sometimes masks lack of content. Alan Jay Lerner produced some incredible rhyming in several of his failed musicals; his least impressive rhyming is in MY FAIR LADY, his greatest success. The ideal, I suppose, is rhyming that is flawless and original but doesn't call attention to itself.) I've always considered Gilbert and Sondheim the best two lyricists, but it's difficult to compare them because their styles are so different. Gilbert's meters are very regular, Sondheim's are not (not that one is better than the other--Sondheim's irregular meters often reflect the characters for whom he is writing, and he usually avoids using intricate rhymes when they are inappropriate for the character who is to sing them). As far as content goes, Sondheim's lyrics obviously have a greater range and more to say; but Gilbert's are funnier. It's fun to compare them--and other lyricists--but perhaps pointless (I say now that I've done so at length), since their purposes are so different. I'm just glad we have both--and many other lyricists who may not be in the class of these two, but whom I enjoy and admire tremendously. (Flamer disclaimer: all the above is, obviously, IMHO.) Arthur  1,, Summary-line: 31-Jan Andrew Crowther #G&S and the USA Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10560; Sat, 31 Jan 98 08:29:38 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18083; Sat, 31 Jan 98 08:28:30 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA23642; Sat, 31 Jan 199 8 08:28:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:28:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980131132100.2fa71462@pop.brad.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S and the USA X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** 8 08:28:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:28:14 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S and the USA X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) I've always been intrigued by the interest Americans have in G&S opera. Why, I ask myself, such enthusiasm for such a typically English product? I need only point to the nationality of the majority of Savoynet subscribers to prove my point, but I might also mention Jane Stedman, the putative Gilbert Edition and the Broude Brothers' critical edition of the operas. Several historical reasons suggest themselves. It is a fact that from _Pinafore_ onwards G&S opera was taken to the American bosom, and _Pirates_ has claim to be regarded as an American opera, its first professional-standard performance having taken place in New York. Why did this happen? One reason that occurs to me is that there was very little native drama in America in the nineteenth century. At least I believe this is true: I haven't made a study of this, and am open to correction. I remember that William Archer's book _English Dramatists of To-Day_ from the early 1880s devotes one chapter to an American dramatist, whose name I can't remember, but Archer commented that this was the only American dramatist who had any claim at all to his attention. The name was completely unfamiliar to me, and I suspect modern Americans would be equally at a loss. This being so, how did Americans view the imported English drama which seems to have been the staple diet of American theatre at this time? Did they, to some extent, adopt it as their own, as seems to have happened with G&S? I ask these questions because I don't know the answers. Was American society of that time comparatively close to English society? That is, were their terms of reference similar enough for them to understand the social ideas behind the operas much better than in the "classless" America the existence of which has been propagandised throughout this century? Again, these are questions I cannot answer. The obvious reason why the operas took off in the USA is "Because they're good operas", but though that's a very good reason, I don't think it explains everything. Comedy is a fragile thing, which can be destroyed by being presented in a different culture. Often it doesn't travel well. And the wild enthusiasm which greeted _Pinafore_ suggests that the Americans were latching onto something which spoke to them in a very direct way. Mere good writing doesn't, on its own, have this effect, I think. But to be honest I don't know enough about American culture to suggest what it can be that so appealed to them. Can it, perhaps, be the _form_ of the operas? G&S's development of the form of comic music theatre, in which wit, humour, sentiment and drama combined with music which blended with the action: this was something quite new, in Britain as in America. And I need scarcely say that this form caught on in the most astounding way throughout the 20th Century. There can be no doubt that Gilbert and Sullivan were the grandparents of the 20th Century musical. At the most basic level, the 2-act structure can be traced back to them, I believe; and the whole attitude to the way song and drama combine derives from them. Was this the thing Americans so loved in the operas? If so, are there any specifically American reasons why this should have happened? Though the musical did, of course, have its British exponents, these were always minor efforts in comparison with the American ones. Was there something in the American soil which was particularly receptive? If so, what? Only one other thing strikes me as relevant here, and that is the well-known American tendency to Anglophilia. A liking for G&S seems to go along with a liking for Sherlock Holmes, P.G. Wodehouse, and similar superb but almost excessively "English" products. As for the causes of _that_ tendency, again I must plead ignorance. I think that's quite enough questions to be going on with. - Andrew. Andrew Crowther 82 the Avenue, A.J.Crowther@bradford.ac.uk Clayton, Bradford, (01274) 882143 West Yorkshire BD14 6RT. Great Britain. Visit Babliophile, my W.S. Gilbert page, at: http://www.student.brad.ac.uk/ajcrowth/babphile.htm "...what is hailed as a new style or a new school in literature often consists of doing as a novelty what a Victorian did long ago as a joke." - G.K. Chesterton, "On Phases of Eccentricity", in _All I Survey_ (1933)  1,, Summary-line: 1-Feb P. D. PARKER #Videos of Yeomen. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26589; Sun, 1 Feb 98 11:24:49 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03878; Sun, 1 Feb 98 11:23:41 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA28789; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:23:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:23:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980201161702.19c73742@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: pdp@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Videos of Yeomen. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:23:23 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: pdp@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Videos of Yeomen. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) I am undertaking the task of making a comparison of the versions of Brent Walker videos of the operas. The first one of these (Yeomen) is set out below. I cannot claim to have spotted every nuance or difference on a word for word basis but the main variations are noted. These comparisons are based on checking against the prompt book libretto as used by the old D'Oyly Carte company at the time Robert Gibson was stage manager, which of itself has errors and differences compared to the stage performances at that time and subsequently. Also I cannot claim to check for the omitted items whether these were actually videoed by Brent Walker or omitted by not being included in final edited video prints. What I have done is to compare, prompt book in hand, the version as shown on BBC TV in or around 1986, some four years after the videos were made with the version as sold by Brent Walker direct prior to that date and bearing their name, and with the cut price budget version sold by Woolworth and since under various names and still on sale currently bearing a Polygram trademark. I have also checked with the recent transmissions on the Performance cable channel network. The amount of work involved is prodigous and I cannot promise to do these checks to any timetable. However it is known that Yeomen and Ruddigore suffered among the worst and the observations for Yeomen are set out below. I will do Ruddigore next. These comparisons are based on versions sold and seen on TV in UK only. I have not checked versions sold in other countries, however it should be easy for anyone having such videos to check against the list below to find out which version they have. In essence (except perhaps for copyright notices, packaging and labelling) there appear to be only two versions in existence The Yeomen dialogue used by the Brent Walker video is much re-written by bringing up to date the use of '' ye, thou,'' etc. There are a large number of minor changes too numerous to list. I have only noted omissions of complete phrases, paragraphs, or songs. It would appear that in all the 'as sold' versions there are Douglas Fairbanks introductions both before the start and between acts one ane two. These introductions were not transmitted in the broadcast versions by BBC or Performance. I do not know if these introductions were on the Beta tapes used for transmission. To make these comparisons readable I have used abbreviations thus: BW = original as sold by Brent Walker. (Prior to the budget version) BBC = as broadcast in 1986 or thereabouts (I do not have precise dates) P = Performance Cable TV broadcast (towards the end of 1997) W = Woolworth budget versions, circa 1989. (It would seem all UK 'as sold' versions are identical in content to these.) ALL = all checked versions (as listed above) are identical. NB: the original BW versions had Dolby linear stereo tracks and were issued before VCR Hi-Fi tracking was introduced. All the other 'as sold' versions include Hi-Fi stereo tracks but it would seem that these were made not from the original master high quality tapes but dubbed from some lower quality source, as yet, not traced. I do not know if the Performance channel transmissions were in stereo as the copies I have were recorded on a mono machine. SUMMARY OF FINDINGS: To avoid having to read carefully all the detail which follows, I set out here a quick check summary which shows that out of all the sources on which this video has been checked only two actual versions are found, the BBC version being more complete than the others. When maiden loves, first verse. Not in any version. Alas I waver to and fro Not in any version. Is Life a Boon In BBC Not in any others. Free from his fetters grim Not in any version. Strange adventure In BBC Not in any others. When a wooer goes a wooing In BBC Not in any others. Rapture, rapture In BBC Not in any others. NB: ''Laughing boy'' and ''When jealouse torments'' are not in any version but these songs were unknown in performances in 1982. There is no evidence that any of the 'as sold' versions contain any scene, dialogue or songs not included in the BBC version. There is a technical difference (the copyright notice, see detail below) between the 'as sold' BW version and the P and W versions. This shows that they were derived from different masters. It is clear that in order to get within a two hour limit on tapes for sale, which included the Douglas Fairbanks introductions, cuts were made from a longer version as used by BBC. It is not known if the other missing songs were videoed at all. YEOMEN OF THE GUARD ACT 1. ALL; The overture is not played as a complete item but all videos checked are identical, with running in titles etc. Opening scene: ALL: Starts with 2nd verse of When maiden loves.. 1st verse omitted. Dialogue: Phoebe; ALL: omit ''Is the Little Ease sufficiently uncomfortable''. Song: ALL: Tower Warders; solo verse and subsequent dialogue appears to be given to Sgt Meryll not to 2nd Yeoman as in prompt book. This agrees with original text as per First Night G & S. (See also note in Bradley.) Dialogue: Dame; ALL: omit ''A good day to you!'' Dialogue: Sgt Meryll; ALL: omit ''in saving his standard..'' to ''has been appointed ..'' Dialogue: Phoebe; ALL: omit from ''circumspection..'' to ''I may not do this..'' (including the whole of Sgt Meryll's paragraph between). Dialogue: Sgt Meryll; ALL: omit whole paragraph ''Nay he'll not check..'' Dialogue: Sgt Meryll; ALL omit ''who saved his flag...'' to end of sentence. Song: Trio, Phoebe, Leonard and Sgt Meryll; ALL omit ''Alas I waver to and fro!...''. Whole song omitted. Dialogue: Sgt Meryll; ALL: omit ''Nay, lass, be of good cheer, we may save him yet.'' Dialogue: Sgt Meryll; ALL omit ''Keep a stout heart...'' to ''Take my word for it...'' Song: Fairfax; Is life a boon: BBC includes this but none of the 'as sold' versions included this song. It is not in the Performance transmissions. Dialogue: Fairfax; ALL omit ''Comming death...'' to ''So, my good Lieutenant...'' Dialogue: Point; ALL omit ''Its the very marriage of pro...'' to Now wherewithal..'' Dialogue: Elsie; ALL omit ''Best beware! I am armed!'' Dialogue: Sgt Meryll; ALL omit '' Here is your Halbert sir, carry it thus.'' (No Halbert is given to Fairfax at that point). YEOMEN OF THE GUARD ACT TWO. NB: My prompt book contains an apparent error in that The Merrie Jestes of Hugh Ambrose is quoted as number 7683 and not as used and in all other copies number 7863. 7863 is used in these videos. (That should pin down the date of the prompt book). Dialogue: Point; ALL omit ''Jailer that jailed not..'' to ''Come take heart..'' Dialogue: Fairfax; ALL omit ''As far as I remember..'' to ''The Tower bonds..'' Song: Fairfax; ALL omit ''Free from his fetters grim-'' Dialogue: Fairfax; All omit ''With all my heart.'' Dialogue; Kate; ALL omit ''..on my tablets.'' Song: Quartet; Fairfax, Sgt Meryll, Dame and Kate; Strange adventure.. BBC included this song but ALL 'as sold' and P tapes omit this number. NB there is a long noticeable pause with picture but no sound on the 'as sold' and P tapes to blend this deletion of the missing song into the next video scene. Dialogue: Fairfax, Elsie; ALL omit entire scene/dialogue from ''I might have fared worse with my eyes open!'' to ''Hark! What was that sir?'' Dialogue: Point; ALL omit ''The testimony of one eye...'' to (Phoebe) ''But are you sure it was...'' Song: Quartet, Elsie, Phoebe, Fairfax and Point: ''When a wooer goes a wooing,'' BBC included this song but ALL 'as sold' and P copies omit this number. Dialogue and Song: Sgt Meryll and Dame; BBC included all the dialogue from ''must e'en suffer for it'' to ''Comes the pretty young bride...', including Rapture, rapture. All the 'as sold' and P versions omit the entire scene between Sgt Meryll and Dame Carruthers with all the dialogue and the song ''Rapture, rapture'' NB: The copyright notice right at the end of the video differs depending which version you watch. Its very subtle. On all the videos checked the last but one title is a copyright notice. ALL of them award the copyright to The Moving Picture Company but only the W and P versions have a date, 1982; the BBC and BW version do not have a date even though the layout and font of the title screen is identical and is superimposed on the same background scene. This implies that the date which is given its own line has been added on some master copy. Examining these videos frame by frame at this point shows the date line having been faded in slightly late (by about 3 frames) compared to the other part of the title and indeed there are a few frames (about 3 only) on fade out where the date is still showing (faintly) but the title has disolved and is not showing at all. At normal playing speed this difference is not discernable. One can conclude that the P and W versions are taken from the same master but the P version would have been on a Betamax system tape for transmission. This points to three master versions being in existence at some date. One, the BW 'as sold' originals, heavily cut; two, the BBC version with more songs; three, the W and P versions, identical to each other and to the BW version in opera content but with the added copyright date line. I should perhaps add that this sleuthing comparison has been done the hard way and not with any help from the current copyright owners. The ownership of the current copyright is believed to be Goldcrest Films International, to whom I have appealed in vain, both personally and in writing but who have refused to respond at all. All contacts during 1997 with Brent Walker (now totally out of existence) and the Moving Picture Company referred me to Goldcrest as the current copyright owners. The Moving Picture Company credited with the copyright on the tapes are still in existence but are apparently unable to be of help. Peter. Peter D Parker. pdp@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Summary-line: 1-Feb William Kelly #The el polloi hoi niqo effect Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09498; Sun, 1 Feb 98 13:43:44 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16365; Sun, 1 Feb 98 13:42:37 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA29355; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:42:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:42:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <34D4C033.21F7@snet.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: bkelly@snet.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: William Kelly To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The el polloi hoi niqo effect X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SNET (Win95; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id NAA29355 *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:42:21 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: bkelly@snet.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: William Kelly To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The el polloi hoi niqo effect X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SNET (Win95; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id NAA29355 It seems to me the way to pronounce Latin and classical Greek in the G&S operas -- and probably also French and Italian -- is to pronounce them the way Gilbert and his contemporaries would have pronounced them in late-19th-century England. The pronunciations being taught nowadays, or those modern scholars now think were the ancient practice, don't apply. For example, in Ida there is a reference to a Mistress Lalage. The name may look French, but is actually from classical Latin. Nowadays many Latin teachers would ask that the "g" be pronounced hard, as in "get," and the "a's" broad as in "papa." But from Gilbert's use of the word in his verse, and from parallel use by Gilbert's contemporary Kipling, it seems clear those two Victorian authors had in mind a word that rhymes with "analogy" -- that is, with a soft "g" as in "George" and a short English "a" as in "sat." I don't know how Gilbert and his schoolmates pronounced their Greek, and whether they aspirated their "h's" or not; but however they did it, that is the practice that should be followed in the operas -- unless Gilbert himself indicates otherwise (as in the case of the low character Dauntless and his "Mounseer," or the townspeople in Sorcerer) by writing out dialect for us. This thread reminds me that news anchors and tv weatherman have been referring quite often this year to "el ni=F1o," the Pacific weather system, and its supposed effect on U.S. weather farther inland. A few of these paid professionals use the pronunciation "nee-no," using an ordinary English "n," but most say "neen-yo," preserving the effect of the tilde character over the "n."=20 By the way, the Portuguese equivalent of the tilde is the letter "h" after an "n." So, for example, the famous carnivorous fish, the piranha, in Portuguese sounds something like "pee-rawn-ya." Almost all Americans I hear pronounce it "per-an-na" or sometimes "per-an-ha," with an aspirated "h." Walter Cronkite, when he was the CBS anchorman on the evening news, used to get hate mail because he insisted on pronouncing the word "junta" (referring to the Latin American political arrangement) with a "j" as in "judge" and a short "u" as in "cup," rather than using the more Spanish-sounding "hoon-ta." He insisted that the word had been absorbed into English, and therefore merited an English pronunciation, just as professors of English literature will speak of Shaw's "don jew-on" rather than "don hwahn." But wait -- this just in on "el ni=F1o." How does one handle the first word "el," which is the Spanish definite article equivalent to "the"? Most newscasters are uttering sentences such as "Blame it on 'el ni=F1o'." But a noticeable minority us the construction "Blame it on the 'el ni=F1o'," introducing a redundant "the," just as we have in the English phrase "the 'hoi polloi.'." Although it would seem to be an option (an indeed an elegant one), I've never heard anyone (except myself) use a construction like "Blame in on the 'ni=F1o'." This problem, when mixing languages, of which language's definite article to use, and whether to repeat it, is an interesting and complex one I've never seen fully analyzed. For example, what is going on in sentences like, "Blame it on the 'el ni=F1o' effect"? Now, with "el ni=F1= o" serving as an adjective rather than a noun, the redundancy (if indeed there is one) between "the" and "el" seems much less marked. It is interesting in this context to note that many Spanish words that begin with "al" were taken in from Arabic, where the "al" is already the definite article. Thus we have in Spanish "la albuhera" =3D "the lagoon" and "el alc=E1zar" =3D "the castle." I wish that instead of "el ni=F1o," = the weather system had been called, say, "el alcalde" =3D "the mayor." Then w= e could have the spectacle of a triple definite article in such sentences as "Blame it on the 'el Alcalde' effect."  1,, Summary-line: 1-Feb Jim Farron #Song from The Arcadians Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22450; Sun, 1 Feb 98 20:09:27 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00907; Sun, 1 Feb 98 20:08:20 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA01515; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:08:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:08:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980201195515.006bdea8@mail.vais.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: jmfarron@vais.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Jim Farron To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Song from The Arcadians X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:08:05 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: jmfarron@vais.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Jim Farron To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Song from The Arcadians X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Thanks for the assistance in finding these lyrics. Tim Devlin was able to provide the lyrics, which I have sent on to the woman who needed them. Here they are, in case anyone else's curiosity has been roused: Duet: Half-Past Two Jack: Tell me when you've got an hour to spare, Then we'll fix up when to meet and where. Eileen: I should like to make it very soon-- Say, perhaps, tomorrow afternoon. Both: We'll compare engagement books, and see What day both of us are free.-- J: On Monday E: I must go shopping, J: On Tuesday E: I've calls to pay; J: On Wednesday E: I'm asked out to luncheon, J: On Thursday E: I'm booked all day, J: On Friday E: I've heaps of appointments That somehow I must get through-- But I've nothing much to do on Saturday, Both: So I'll meet you at half-past two. E: Shall I come and meet you all alone, Or do you think I need a chaperon? J: Chaperons should never be allowed, Three is always such a fearful crowd. What about the place of rendezvous? E: That's a thing I leave to you. J: I'll meet you at Hyde Park Corner, I'll meet you in Rotten Row, E: We might try the British Museum, But p'rhaps that's a trifle slow,- J: Shall we go to the Tower of London?- Unless you prefer the Zoo? E: Why, the animals are fed on Saturday, B: So we'll lunch there at half-past two! J: Now that our engagement's ratified, Fix the date when you'll become a bride. E: Really you are going rather fast, P'rhaps you might get jilted at the last! J: You don't mean to leave me in the lurch? E: Silly boy. Let's choose the church. J: We might patronize the Abbey,- E: Oh, that's such a swell affair! J: The music is good at St George's- E: Or St Peter's in Eaton Square. J: Of course there's St Paul's at Knightsbridge- E: Well, any of those would do. J: But, anyhow, we'll meet them at St Somebody's B: And the time will be half-past two! Lyrics for this duet: Percy Greenbank and Arthur Wimperis Music: Howard Talbot ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Farron, Springfield, VA Gilbert and Sullivan Archive == http://diamond.idbsu.edu/GaS/GaS.html U. S. Office of Personnel Management == http://www.opm.gov Washington Area Butterfly Club = http://www.vais.net/butterfly -----------------------------------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 2-Feb Charles Schlotter #The All-Bugger Mikado Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28207; Mon, 2 Feb 98 01:50:40 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07602; Mon, 2 Feb 98 01:49:32 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id BAA03004; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:49:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:49:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <886401726@pagebbs.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: charles.schlotter@pagebbs.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: charles.schlotter@pagebbs.com (Charles Schlotter) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The All-Bugger Mikado X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:49:12 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: charles.schlotter@pagebbs.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: charles.schlotter@pagebbs.com (Charles Schlotter) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The All-Bugger Mikado X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I have been following the discussion concerning the introduction of the word "bugger"" into "The Flowers that Bloom in the Spring." As often happens, the Pocatello archives provide a startling new insight into the artistic intent of Mr. Gilbert. In an undated letter to the composer, he writes: Mr dear Sullivan, It has occurred to me that our forthcoming operetta (working title: "The Sword that Fell from the Wall") lacks an essential element, namely a judicious admixture of borderline impropriety with outright vulgarity, not to say obscenity. I am therefore making further emendations to my manuscript which I will post to you at the earliest possible moment. I forsee little need for you to revise your musical composition except as specified below but felt it best to alert you to the main points of revision. 1. The crime punishable by execution by the Mikado's edict is changed from "flirting" to "public fornication." Illustration of same will give the chorus something to do beyond snapping fans. 2. "Behold the Lord High Executioner" is changed as follows: Behold the Lord High Executioner, A personage of diabolic thuggery. A dignified and potent officer, Who spends his days in unrelenting buggery. 3. "Three Little Maids" altered at "From three little maids take one away" as follows. You shall have to adjust the scansion a bit, there's a good chap: When Maid Number One weds a balding jerk, Maid Number Two on the streets must work. Maid Number Three is a silly berk. 4. Katisha's outburst at the end of Act One is changed thusly: Katisha I'll tear the mask from your disguising. Nank. (aside) Now comes the blow! Katisha Prepare yourselves for news surprising. Nank. (aside) How foil my foe? Katisha No suitor he, though he may hug 'er. Yum Aha! I know! Katisha For he is in fact a royal... Chorus O ni! bikkuri shakkuri to! Katisha Yum-Yum is vain, though the nose of none is pugger, The fact remains Nanki-Poo is a noble... Chorus O ni! bikkuri shakkuri to! Katisha I'll spoil... Chorus O ni! bikkuri shakkuri to! Katisha Your hugger-mugger! He is a blooming... Chorus O ni! bikkuri shakkuri to! Katisha A bloody... Chorus O ni! bikkuri shakkuri to! Katisha He is a sodding... Chorus O ni! bikkuri shakkuri to! oya! oya! Again, I leave it to you to adjust to the new lines. Since this is all in recitative, the burden should not be tiresome. 5. In Act II, "Oh bother the flowers that bloom in the spring" is changed to "Oh bugger the" etc. 6. I should also like the Mikado to sit on his hat at the end of his song, as this is always good for a laugh. I trust you will insert a long downward slide on the trombone at this point. I allow that our loyal public has not to date demanded this sort of thing but I reason that for those who have never heard a work of Gilbert and Sullivan, who may perchance never so much as heard *of* Gilbert and Sullivan, bathroom humour will counterbalance the long, arid stretches of scintillating dialogue and entrancing melody. Indeed, it may (as I hope) cultivate a Whole New Audience for Gilbert and Sullivan. As for the old, discriminating one, they can bugger off. Please send me your thoughts on this matter. Yours most politely, Gilbert P.S. A happy thought! I'll change Koko's name to Dildo! P.P.S. Your gift of a copy of the "Thespis" score received and most appreciated. I shall place it for safe keeping in... Alas, the remainder of this letter is missing and no record survives of Sir Arthur's reaction. -- Charles Schlotter charles.schlotter@pagebbs.com  1,, Summary-line: 3-Feb Marc Shepherd #Players Press Edition of PIRATES Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27779; Tue, 3 Feb 98 18:54:56 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10761; Tue, 3 Feb 98 18:53:49 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA15718; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:53:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:53:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <34D7ACA2.6ACB@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Players Press Edition of PIRATES X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:53:17 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Players Press Edition of PIRATES X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) I cannot recall if I ever posted to Savoynet about this edition. Even if I did, I have some new information to report, so the basic facts are worth repeating. Some months ago, I saw a number of new G&S editions at http://www.amazon.com, published by Players Press. Several operas were listed; I decided to order PIRATES. What I got was basically a newly-typeset copy of the First American Edition of 1880. This state of the text, which in most respects is the version given in Allen's THE FIRST NIGHT GILBERT AND SULLIVAN, is an odd choice for a new edition. The First American Edition has many textual readings that the authors later abandoned. It also includes the original New York finale, which will not be found in any published vocal score. I wrote to the editor, one William-Alan Landes, care of the publisher, to ask for an explanation. The publisher said that they stand by Mr. Landes's decisions and referred me to the introduction (which I admit I had overlooked) for details. In relevant part, the introduction reads as follows (with numbers in brackets referring to my own comments, below): "This version, as all of the Gilbert and Sullivan operettas in this series, is based on an original manuscript. [1] The later published versions and considerably later [2] published scores will have discrepencies [sic] and editorial changes not necessarily from either Gilbert or Sullivan. [3] Many of the later versions have the hand of editors and publishers trying to standardize each work and in some cases upgrading or modernizing the spelling of words. Here I felt it eseential to leave the text as originally found, including several typos or misspellings, with only minor editorial clarifications, [3a] so as to give the reader the feeling the originally [sic] performer encountered. [4] I do suggest that if you plan to perform these versions that you must take the time to plan your score; [5] most existing published scores will not match [6] and some songs may not even be available. "Real pirates led Gilbert and Sullivan to the United States to oppose unauthorized production of their work. They mounted H.M.S. PINAFORE and later THE PIRATES OF PENZANCE, and secured the United States copyright for their work. Shortly after their return to England, they began extensively standardizing their operettas. [7] One could speculate that their experiences in America had educated them to the world legalities and that there were strong legal reasons, rather than artistic reasons, for them to standardize. [8] It is not until much later and under the hand of editorial staffs that so called standards of these operettas appear. [9] "Although you may find it more difficult to produce these versions, because existing scores do not correspond, you will find these versions truer to the originals and possibly more rewarding to produce. [10] It is my intention, and I hope I do get the time, to reconstruct scores for each of these versions. [11] NOTES: 1. He says that he based this version on an "original manuscript," but there is no known manuscript that matches this text. Indeed, very few of the G&S libretti survive in manuscript. If Mr. Landes has found a manuscript of this version, one hopes that he'll publish this amazing discovery, as it is totally unknown in the G&S literature. 2. Why the vocal scores are described as "considerably later" is a mystery to me. 3. It is certainly true that later editions did have editorial "improvements" that neither Gilbert nor Sullivan authorized. But, this is no reason to revert to a First American Edition that ignores many changes that they unquestionably DID authorize. 3a. I found no "clarifications" inside. He probably means "emendations," but there's no indication of where this was done. 4. The libretto and vocal score of PIRATES were not published until six months after the London opening. So, the text presented here is certainly NOT what the original performers encountered. 5. Is a score is something that one "plans"? 6. He says that "most existing published scores will not match." In fact, NO existing published scores will match. 7. Unclear what manner of standardization is meant here. 8. He's implying that some features of the operas were incorporated for legal reasons, not artistic reasons. I do hope that he'll publish somewhere the details of this novel claim. 9. But, now he's saying that it was not till "much later" that "standards" appear[ed]. 10. While the notion of being "truer to the originals" is laudable, it requires a lot more thought than simply reproducing the first published edition. 11. Note that he's promising, almost as an aside, to produce scores if he "get[s] the time," as if this is a straightforward extension of the work he's already done (basically just a retyping job). CONCLUSION Players Press versions are available for several of the operas. I think they sell for about $10 each. I may order the others out of curiosity, but I would certainly not recommend these as performing versions. Even if I agreed with the textual choices, the layout and typography are decidedly second-rate. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/  1,, Summary-line: 4-Feb Daniel Kaplan #Re: "Who's Afraid of (G&S) Opera" Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27177; Wed, 4 Feb 98 09:44:54 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02090; Wed, 4 Feb 98 09:43:28 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA18448; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:43:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:43:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <34D87E19.8A3A2722@p3.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dbk@p3.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Daniel Kaplan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: "Who's Afraid of (G&S) Opera" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:43:13 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: dbk@p3.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Daniel Kaplan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: "Who's Afraid of (G&S) Opera" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) This is a response to someone's request (a few months ago) for suggestions on how to interest "young" people in G&S. (Bear with this a moment.) While seeking a Ruddigore CD recently (unavailable in Phila, BTW) I stumbled upon a video series entitled "Who's Afraid of Opera?" produced on the _Kultur_ label by Nathan Kroll. These delightful tapes feature Joan Sutherland and the Larry Berthelson Puppeteers in 30 minute versions of several operas, complete with costumes, scenery, props and a running editorial on the action, by the puppets. In Rigoletto, for instance, when Gilda is abducted by the courtiers, Billy (the young goat) asks: "But where are they taking her?" To which the learned Sir William (a mature goat) replies: "Why, they're taking her to the Duke's chamber of course, silly boy!" This kind of banter permeates the videos. Joan Sutherland greets the puppets in costume at the beginning of each opera and explains what "today's" opera is about. From time to time during the action, she returns to the puppets, stage right, for additional expository dialogue. The resulting blend of serious opera and Muppet-esque fun is riveting. The performances are perfect for uninitiated adults as well as children. To get on-topic here, why not produce this kind of thing for G&S, on an amateur basis? Most of our companies have costumes. Video equipment is everywhere. And puppets can be borrowed or made. Muscial accompaniment (sp?) could be canned, OR these "operas" could be presented live at schools, etc.with piano. Perhaps even as prelims to a full performance. The possibilities are myriad. Hoping this hasn't been discussed in the past... Dan Kaplan dbk@p3.net (was that you, Harriet?)  1,, Summary-line: 6-Feb William S. Kelly #Iolanthe's Liver Problems Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19033; Fri, 6 Feb 98 15:19:31 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13316; Fri, 6 Feb 98 15:18:22 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA27429; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:17:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:17:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <34DB6F5E.2C8E@snet.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: bkelly@snet.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "William S. Kelly" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Iolanthe's Liver Problems X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SNET (Win95; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id PAA27429 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:17:44 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: bkelly@snet.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "William S. Kelly" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Iolanthe's Liver Problems X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SNET (Win95; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id PAA27429 The address of the website that predicts your character from your given name is at . Here's another sample: Iolanthe Although your name of Iolanthe has created an expressive, fun-loving nature, it has not produced the qualities necessary for a full and complete life. You have always been a happy person, and, desiring to see others happy as well, you strive to inspire others, which you do most effectively through an engaging sense of humour. You are fond of surprises and are quick to respond to spontaneous invitations which promise a good time, particularly when they relieve you of a boring task. You intensely dislike monotony and routine, and thus you often do not finish the things you start. A natural rhythm, a sense of colour harmony, and creative ability contribute to a flair for composition and artistic and musical expression. Expression comes easily to you; in fact, you should learn to control it and discipline your expression. You are not practical where money matters are concerned, your theory being that money is there to be spent. You are kind and generous, and will fill a need when you see it; at times, others take advantage of your generosity. The most serious drawback of the influence of this name is in the strong emotional feelings that it produces, over which you have little control. The name does not engender stability in your thinking or in your affairs. A craving for sweet foods could cause skin conditions or liver problems. You would find it difficult to control your desires and could over-indulge in your pleasures.=20 Iolanthe, this brief analysis of your first name is not complete. There are many additional factors (nicknames, last name, names and initials in your business signature, and birthdate, etc.) to be considered, or that affect your personality and life. A personalized Name Report=99 will give you a comprehensive description of your unique qualities, inner potential, strengths and weaknesses, compatibility in personal and business relationships, career aptitudes, health, and degree of happiness and success. You can also obtain a complimentary FREE verbal analysis by clicking here. --=20 William S. Kelly ABB 203 750 2246 voice 203 750 7788 fax  1,, Summary-line: 9-Feb David C. Jedlinsky #Web page problems Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18726; Mon, 9 Feb 98 14:31:33 EST Received: from CHARON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29202; Mon, 9 Feb 98 14:30:26 EST Received: (from opus@localhost) by charon.MIT.EDU (8.7.6/2.3JIK) id OAA18198; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:30:15 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:30:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199802091930.OAA18198@charon.MIT.EDU> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: savoyards-request@MIT.EDU Subject: Web page problems *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:30:15 -0500 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: savoyards-request@MIT.EDU Subject: Web page problems Hi. I looked at the G&S web pages today, and noticed some things that have changed recently that might not be intentional. There are two files, index.html and home.html. It used to be that index.html was a symlink to home.html, so that both URLS and would return the same main page. These files are slightly different, and may diverge more in the future unless they are re-linked together. Second, home.html makes a reference to a new banner image, gs3.gif. This image does not have the transparent background, so that it does not display properly against the default background for the G&S pages (yellow_weave.gif). I recommend making the following changes. Obviously, you can decide that I'm full of it, and tell me to go away, but please at least consider them. 1) Edit home.html to contain the information that you want to display on the main G&S home page (if there's anything in index.html you want to save, do so now). 2) Replace the banner (gs3.gif) with the old one (gs.gif). 3) remove index.html, and do a "ln -s home.html index.html". 4) Create a document which outlines the style used to give a consistent look to the G&S pages. I can do this if you'd like. -Dave Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1, answered,, Summary-line: 10-Feb Michael Paul Nash #Re: London Transport Trivia.. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27331; Tue, 10 Feb 98 14:01:47 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28048; Tue, 10 Feb 98 14:00:39 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA03521; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:59:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:59:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <01bd3654$bbb07b60$798577c2@iologic.u-net.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Michael Paul Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: London Transport Trivia.. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:59:56 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Michael Paul Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: London Transport Trivia.. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Mime-Version: 1.0 David Craven wrote:- >Just a quick question about current day London Transport. If someone, say >the Lord Chancellor, was taking a bus to the House of Parliament (or from >the House of Parliament) to say, Knightsbridge or Belgrave Square, what >would he need to do... Well, I'm from Macclesfield, but my father was a Cockney, so I'll try and be of as much help as I can... >1. How would he pay the fare. Does London Transport still have Bus >Conductors? DO you pay upon entry into the Bus? Do they use the European >Honour System? What is the current fare? Can you buy a weekly, monthly or >annual pass. If so, what do the passes look like? As far as I know, all buses in England these days are pay-as-you-enter. It cuts the workforce down by half, and the speed of the bus by about the same amount. Current fare: don't know. You can buy weekly and monthly (and daily) passes, they sort of look like a credit card. What is the European Honour System? >2. How many buses would one need to take? Would one take the Tube instead? This particular Lord Chancellor would take the Tube every time. Circle/District lines to South Kensington, then Piccadilly line to Knightsbridge. >3. How are London Buses Fueled? Are they still "double-decker" and painted >bright Red? Diesel, yes and yes. >And for general Atmosphere? 78% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, ever-increasing amounts of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and ozone. >Are City Benches in London of a specific colour, shape or size? They have a horizontal bit you sit on, and a vertical bit you lean back on. The overall shape I think can best be expressed by an equation of the form y = a*sin(bx) + c*cos(dx), or the word "squiggly". Colour: don't know. Size: just not quite big enough to lie on lengthways comfortably. >What other >kinds of things would one see on a Modern Day London Street? Lots of people, discarded Coke cans and MacDonalds boxes, red telephone boxes (touristy bits only), horrible perspex transparent phone boxes with that silly BT logo (everywhere else), tacky souvenir shops selling models of Beefeaters and Grenadier Guards, not to mention rack upon rack of Princess Diana postcards, and clothes shops with 185 decibels of the Spice Girls blaring out through the door. >We all know that, in private, the Lord Chancellor reads the Sun, the Globe >and the Weekly World News.. but what would he read on a London Street >Corner while waiting for a Bus? Either "A Brief History Of Time" by Stephen Hawking or the Teletubbies Annual 1998. >Not, mind you, that any of this will be used..... Of course not. Er, does anyone have a Teletubby doll they could lend me for our production of "Iolanthe" in March? Mike.  1,, Summary-line: 11-Feb Kirby, Dave #RE: Castrati Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01349; Wed, 11 Feb 98 13:14:45 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14895; Wed, 11 Feb 98 13:13:25 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA20602; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:12:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:12:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dave.kirby@TANDEM.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Kirby, Dave" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Castrati X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:12:55 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: dave.kirby@TANDEM.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Kirby, Dave" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Castrati X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Mime-Version: 1.0 Just to sum it all up and put it in a nutshell, here is the concise definition of the four main types of tenors: The castrato: he hasn't any. The countertenor: he has one. The lyric tenor: he has two. The Wagnerian Heldentenor: he also has two, but he's standing on one. -- In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded. > ---------- > From: Ronald Orenstein > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 1998 11:22 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Castrati > > At 09:32 AM 10/02/1998 -0500, you wrote: > >Sorry to go off topic to delve deeply into biology here, but I must > differ > >with Ron Orenstein. I cannot see how severing the vas deferens, which > is > >done routinely to millions of men who get vasectomies, could cause > the > >person in question to become a soprano! You would have to remove the > >source of male hormones by removing the testicles. > >Now back to G&S (or at least Offenbach!). > > Well, Judy, I won't get into a biological argument with a good friend > and > esteemed colleague, but the following is taken from Heriot: > > "The operation, as described by d'Ancillon, in the "Traite des > Eunuques", > was usually performed as follows: the child, often drugged with opium > or > some other narcotic, was placed in a very hot bath for some time, > until it > was in a state of virtual insensibility. Then the ducts leading to > the > testicles were severed, so that the latter in course of time > shrivelled and > disappeared." > > So I suppose it was not the vasa deferentia, but the vasa efferentia > (or > whatever they are called - I don't have a human anatomy text handy)? > -- > Ronald I. Orenstein Phone: (905) 820-7886 > International Wildlife Coalition Fax/Modem: (905) > 569-0116 > 1825 Shady Creek Court > Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5L 3W2 > mailto:ornstn@inforamp.net > >  1,, Summary-line: 11-Feb David Duffey #Re: London transport Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28265; Wed, 11 Feb 98 16:03:12 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12063; Wed, 11 Feb 98 16:02:04 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA22667; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:00:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:00:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4816e323e2dduffey@argonet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: London transport X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Pluto 1.05c for RISC OS 3.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:00:45 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: London transport X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Pluto 1.05c for RISC OS 3.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 On 09 Feb, David Craven wrote: > Just a quick question about current day London Transport. If > someone, say the Lord Chancellor, was taking a bus to the House of > Parliament (or from the House of Parliament) to say, Knightsbridge or > Belgrave Square, what would he need to do... If I answer these irrelevant questions authoritatively, may I ask another which may lie within David Craven's competence? > 1. How would he pay the fare. Does London Transport still have Bus > Conductors? DO you pay upon entry into the Bus? Do they use the > European Honour System? What is the current fare? Can you buy a > weekly, monthly or annual pass. If so, what do the passes look like? Some LT 'buses, those of the classic 1950's design called Routemaster, [pronounced root-master] and still in service on certain Central London routes, (e.g. route 9, 73, 53, 15, etc.) have open platforms at the rear and retain conductors, who wear a little ticket machine. S/he moves about within the body of the 'bus and receives the fare from passengers who remain in their seats and tender the money when s/he gets to them. As the conductor has to make change while balancing on a moving vehicle and giving the driver signals on a bell (one ring for "stop at the next 'bus stop " - a signal passengers may also give, two for "start when safe to do so", three for "stop only if there are passengers who wish to alight, the 'bus is full" and four for "STOP, there is an emergency") s/he prefers to be tendered the correct fare - minimum UKP.60. On other routes one enters by a door at the front of the 'bus and pays the driver. One may buy a daily, weekly, monthly and/or annual ticket. The daily "capital card" at UKP3.50 is of remarkable value and covers the whole Greater London transport system, 'buses, underground (the Tube) and suburban railways. I heartily recommend them. Should the LC be aged over 65 he might receive a free pass, good for all transport, like the capital card, but with certain restrictions over its use during peak travel times. The capital card looks like a flimsy credit card. Passes valid for longer require a transport ID card, which are freely available on presentation of a passport sized photograph at a railway, tube or 'bus station. > 2. How many buses would one need to take? Would one take the Tube > instead? One, or two or three. There are about eight routes passing the Houses of Parliament. He could also use the Tube, and as a Minister of the Crown, has a chauffeur-driven car. > 3. How are London Buses Fueled? Are they still "double-decker" and > painted bright Red? Fuelled by diesel, many are double-decker, and the majority are still red, although with increasing 'privatisation' other colours are about. > And for general Atmosphere? > Are City Benches in London of a specific colour, shape or size? What > other kinds of things would one see on a Modern Day London Street? No. There are fewer and fewer benches. What would one see on a London street? Why, Macdonald and BurgerKing outlets, bewildered American tourists, homeless beggars and the occasional busker. Now for my question: although in UK impeachment (trial by Parliament) is still possible, it has not been used since 1806. If it were to be revived according to precedent, the Lord Chancellor would preside over the House of Peers which would act as judge and jury, proceedings having been initiated by motion within the House of Commons. What would be the impeachment tribunal in the US, impeachment seemingly being an active part of its constitution? We only hear of possible impeachment of a sitting President. Can any citizen be impeached, as would be the case in UK? David [There seems to be a little trouble with my mail programme, appologies if this is a little late]  1,, Summary-line: 12-Feb David Cookson #Create-Your-Own Subtitles Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10756; Thu, 12 Feb 98 17:24:17 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09232; Thu, 12 Feb 98 17:22:51 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA05332; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:19:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:19:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.19980212221106.561f0f04@pop.site1.csi.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: davidcookson@csi.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Cookson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Create-Your-Own Subtitles X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:19:16 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: davidcookson@csi.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Cookson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Create-Your-Own Subtitles X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Hi everyone How about these - not really in the spirit of Rebecca's original brief, I'm afraid. Thespis, or Lost ! Lost ! Lost ! Trial by Jury, or The Subtleties Of The Legal Mind Are Equal To The Emergency (or How Some Bridegrooms Would Be Depressed By This Sort Of Thing)(or My Good Sir, You Mustn't Tell Us What She Told You - It's Not Evidence) The Sorcerer, or The Cup Of Tea And The Plate Of Mixed Biscuits Were A Cheap And Effective Inspiration HMS Pinafore, or We, With All Our Faults, Why, We're Sturdy British Salts The Pirates of Penzance, or Xeres We'll Drink Patience, or Only The Educated Palate Can Appreciate Me Iolanthe, or A Lord High Chancellor Is A Personage Of Great Dignity Princess Ida, or Vulgar Girls ! (or I Love Him Not And Yet I Am His Wife) The Mikado, or Not Pretty. Massive. Ruddigore, or It's Simple Torture (or Consent At Once, Or May A Nephew's Curse-) The Yeomen of the Guard, or Virtue Is Triumphant Only In Theatrical Performances The Gondoliers, or We Were Boys Together Utopia Limited, or It Would Not Be Fair On The Co. The Grand Duke, or Theatrical Property Is Not What It Was David Cookson PS Don't forget the February Trivia Quiz on my Bookshop Page - there's a $10 Amazon.com voucher to be won. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/davidcookson/bookshop.htm  1,, Summary-line: 12-Feb Jason Goodman #SCSI disk, cables Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10505; Thu, 12 Feb 98 19:41:33 EST Received: from AMPERSAND.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12457; Thu, 12 Feb 98 19:40:09 EST Received: (from goodmanj@localhost) by ampersand.MIT.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA01042; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:40:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802130040.TAA01042@ampersand.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: SCSI disk, cables Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:40:09 EST From: Jason Goodman *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: SCSI disk, cables Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:40:09 EST From: Jason Goodman Hi. You mentioned having a SCSI disk for Carolyn, if an enclosure and power supply could be found. I've just acquired a nice enclosure that used to belong to an exabyte tape drive. Only thing missing is a SCSI cable. Do you have a spare one? Also, how big is that drive you were going to give her? I've got a 250M one lying around my room. The enclosure's big enough for a half-height drive; it might be possible to stuff two smaller drives in there. Jason  1,, Summary-line: 12-Feb Mark W. Eichin #St. Ek-Chuah Day Chocolate Party Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20221; Thu, 12 Feb 98 23:51:58 EST Received: from paycheck.thok.org by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25021; Thu, 12 Feb 98 23:50:22 EST Received: (qmail 25466 invoked by uid 3382); 13 Feb 1998 04:50:19 -0000 To: eichin-ek-chuah@thok.org Subject: St. Ek-Chuah Day Chocolate Party From: eichin@kitten.gen.ma.us (Mark W. Eichin) Date: 12 Feb 1998 23:50:17 -0500 Message-Id: Lines: 42 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.56/Emacs 19.34 *** EOOH *** To: eichin-ek-chuah@thok.org Subject: St. Ek-Chuah Day Chocolate Party From: eichin@kitten.gen.ma.us (Mark W. Eichin) Date: 12 Feb 1998 23:50:17 -0500 Lines: 42 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.56/Emacs 19.34 According to Teubner et. al, "The Chocolate Bible", Ek-chuah is the Mayan patron saint of cocoa. (And an ugly dude he is...) According to Greg Stark, "The best thing about St. Valentine's Day is that you can get cheap chocolate the day after." According to http://web.mit.edu/registrar/www/calendar.html, Monday 2/16 is an Institute Holiday (as well as a national one.) According to emacs, President's Day is the 3rd Monday of February, which can easily be proven to be later than the 14th (it could be the 15th at earliest.) Thus, you are all invited to a St. Ek-chuah's Day Chocolate Party Where: my place in Davis^2. Trivially red-line accessible; when you reply to this invitation, I'll send you directions. Why: in celebration of cheap chocolate. Don't forget to bring some :-) When: Monday, 16 February 1998. It'll start at 4pm as a tea & chocolate party, and continue until people leave (I don't have any closets for you sleep in, though.) I don't have real-food plans but we can order out (or someone who feels organized can get in touch with me...) Who: This invitation went to the lists: chocolate-lovers, tea-lovers, dinner, sipb-soc. It also went to some individuals. Do not forward this to any lists, but recommend the lists to me instead. Feel free to invite other individuals, but mention them when you respond (and be sure they respond too.) RSVP: It is particularly important that you respond; my apartment was somewhat crowded at the last tea party, but if I panic early enough I can relocate some things to make the space more effective. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! _Mark_  1,, Summary-line: 13-Feb Bruce I. Miller #Re: To Cancel or Not To Cancel... That is the Question -Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22544; Fri, 13 Feb 98 16:19:14 EST Received: from auburn.holycross.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00816; Fri, 13 Feb 98 16:18:06 EST Received: from HCDOMAIN-Message_Server by HOLYCROSS.EDU with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:19:15 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:19:01 -0500 From: Bruce I. Miller To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: To Cancel or Not To Cancel... That is the Question -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline *** EOOH *** X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:19:01 -0500 From: Bruce I. Miller To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: To Cancel or Not To Cancel... That is the Question -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Dear David: >I certainly have my own opinions about MITG&SP, many of which are >not what I would want to make public. For example, the production of >Trial seemed to me to be one of the most sloppily organized and >performed shows I've seen in a long time. However, this is my own >opinion, and I share it with you in confidence. As you know, I briefly considered becoming involved with this particular MIT Trial, and was in fact actively recruited. I am SO glad now that I was unable to follow through. It sounds like my less than satisfactory interaction with them on Sorcerer would have in retrospect seemed like a picnic by comparison. I certainly would have fought to the last minute to keep the show from being canceled, and I'm sure they wouldn't have liked it. >It is entirely possible that they came to the wrong decision about >cancelling for many of the reasons you mention. But I do not see any >reason to assume this is the case without evidence to the contrary, >and then proceed to insult all students (or at the very least MIT >students) with a statement about how they must be products of the >90s. Well, I have to accept their publicly proffered excuse, which was "illness." That is a highly insufficient reason, IMHO, for such a cancellation. It's their obligation to go further in explanation, not mine to dig it up. (I feel a Clinton analogy coming on, but someone just whispered Basingstoke in my ear...) As you see, Rebecca did fill in some of the explanation and the more I learn, the more I am convinced of the correctness of my position. I don't know if you've been following the recent threads involving Rica and her "get with it, it's the 1990's" slant. It's really that to which I was responding, but I fully intended to insult those particular students (not all, by any means) who follow that particular line of thinking. If that includes those in control of MITG&SP so be it. If that includes a philosophy prevelant and/or encouraged at MIT, so be it. >I fully agree with you about doing what is necessary. I myself just >did Despard at MIT last year with full-blown bronchitis. I was >asleep, high on medication until about ten minutes before my first >entrance, and I passed out invariably after each performance. I was >not able to drive to or from the performances, and I missed a week of >work. I don't even know who put my makeup on for me. The highest >compliments I received, though, were from people in the audience, who >had absolutely no idea that anything was wrong. I was not privy to this, but knowing you it does not surprise me. I had heard you were ill, but not to that extent. It makes the good reviews all the more admirable. >Robert Morrison (who played Bass in Sorcerer) vomited through a >performance of Utopia, much like your soprano soloist at Peabody. I hope he went backstage...His dedication doesn't surprise me, either. >In closing, I did not intend for my messages to be a personal attack >on you in any way, Thanks - don't worry about it. I am actually more than a little angry at Rebecca's veiled attack which she published to Savoynet about some past directors of MITG&SP not "understanding" that all they want to do is have "fun" and don't want to be held to certain standards. That kind of crap is one big reason why I've decided to abstain from "Community Theater" for a few years, at least. I've decided Ithat, in the future, I will direct only in circumstances which I can control completely. I'm frankly tired of donating my hard work and expertise on behalf of people who don't appreciate it or want it. Thanks for writing back - Peace, Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Summary-line: 13-Feb Andrew Crowther #Another (Another) Major General Parody... Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24771; Fri, 13 Feb 98 16:26:42 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20127; Fri, 13 Feb 98 16:25:17 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA22600; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:24:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:24:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980213211508.362f8f24@pop.brad.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Another (Another) Major General Parody... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:24:52 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Another (Another) Major General Parody... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) I am the very model of a Nineteen-Nineties lyricist: I'm what you might describe as a pragmatical empiricist. I can't be bothered learning how to rhyme line endings properly: For why should dried-up pedants in this craft have the monopoly? It's good enough for me to say that "agent" rhymes with "alien", And that should be enough for any human being* (mammalian) - And as for anyone who says my rhyming doesn't really work.... [Bothered for rhyme] Really work, really work, really work.... [Triumphantly] Ah! I'll soon enough assure them of how much these things are really worth! Chorus: He'll soon enough, etc. I don't care much for metre or for similar irrelevance, 'Cos all you have to do is use your intuition like some kind of elephant.... In short, as well as being a pragmatical empiricist, I am the very model of a Nineteen-Nineties lyricist! * Please pronounce "being" as one syllable. - Andrew Crowther.  1,, Summary-line: 17-Feb Karin Lin #For he's gone and married Yum-Yum... Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02826; Tue, 17 Feb 98 15:54:25 EST Received: from ev465-2.MSE.Berkeley.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11742; Tue, 17 Feb 98 15:53:09 EST Received: from localhost.Berkeley.EDU by ev465-2.mse.berkeley.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA30834; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:47:29 -0800 Sender: karin@ev465-2.mse.berkeley.edu Message-Id: <34E9F761.2781@physics.berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:47:29 -0800 From: Karin Lin Organization: University of California, Berkeley X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; AIX 1) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: savoyards@MIT.EDU Cc: cade.murray@nsc.com Subject: For he's gone and married Yum-Yum... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** EOOH *** Sender: karin@ev465-2.mse.berkeley.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:47:29 -0800 From: Karin Lin Organization: University of California, Berkeley X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; AIX 1) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: savoyards@MIT.EDU Cc: cade.murray@nsc.com Subject: For he's gone and married Yum-Yum... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear fellow Savoyards, Apologies to those of you who don't know us, but we thought some of the older MITG&SP'ers might like to see our online wedding album: http://surfers-paradise.berkeley.edu/Karin/wedalbum/main.htm (Warning: it's very graphics intensive) This contains many pictures from our October 4 wedding, and includes several shots of MITG&SP'ers you may also recognize. Please check it out and sign our guestbook! Hope you are all doing well! Good luck with Pirates! Karin Lin and Cade Murray (Yum-Yum and Nanki-Poo, MITG&SP 1994 Mikado)  1,, Summary-line: 17-Feb CarolYN J Smith #thought this might amuse you Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20348; Tue, 17 Feb 98 18:22:45 EST Received: from TEN-THOUSAND-DOLLAR-BILL.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02346; Tue, 17 Feb 98 18:21:18 EST Received: by ten-thousand-dollar-bill.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id SAA11749; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:21:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802172321.SAA11749@ten-thousand-dollar-bill.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU, rls@MIT.EDU, raeburn@MIT.EDU Subject: thought this might amuse you Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:21:18 EST From: CarolYN J Smith *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU, rls@MIT.EDU, raeburn@MIT.EDU Subject: thought this might amuse you Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:21:18 EST From: CarolYN J Smith ------- Forwarded Message Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po8.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24155; Fri, 13 Feb 98 13:06:08 EST Received: from AMPERSAND.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00762; Fri, 13 Feb 98 13:05:59 EST Received: (from goodmanj@localhost) by ampersand.MIT.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA06322; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:05:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802131805.NAA06322@ampersand.MIT.EDU> To: cjsmith@MIT.EDU Subject: AP newswire Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:05:42 EST From: Jason Goodman Carolyn sent in a zwrite: > Well, it looks like tonight's meeting won't be a bloodbath after all. Cambridge, MA (AP) A bizarre string of murders has left local residents shocked and horrified. The killing spree began at a booth table at Mary Chung's Chinese Restaurant in Central Square, as a result of a bitter struggle over casting choices for the MIT Gilbert and Sullivan Players' next show. Survivors of the conflict proceeded to Random House nearby, where further killings ensued. No one involved with MITGSP left Random alive, although a string of Zwrites touched off further killings across the city. Jason Goodman, the only survivor with any long-term connections to MITGSP, was able to survive last night's Cambridge bloodbath only by weaseling his way out of the group's elections last year. In an interview, he seemed shaken but stoic. "I'm sure the group will get by somehow," he said, "and we expect to produce the show with as little delay as possible. Hey, can you sing tenor?" Many of the murderers chose their implements based on the Victorian operas which spawned the conflict. Ezra Peisach and Randi Kestin were found bound with good stout rope to yonder post in Central Square. The coroner reported the cause of death to be "frozen heart-blood in their very veins, attributable to malicious, hideous face-making." A headsman's axe was found near Kate Thornton's body, taped with a note saying "condemned to death for flirting." Carolyn Smith could not be found, but a frightened guinea pig was discovered in her apartment cowering in fear of Ms. Smith's two cats. Goodman reported, "I tried to protect her with my strong right arm, but it happened before I could turn round." Bill Schneider was seen leaping from the Longfellow Bridge into the Charles; his final words were reportedly "Oh willow, titwillow, titwillow". Garry Zacheiss was also found dead at his computer, with an anonymously-sent email message on his screen: "And the tech-directing tyrant who won't let us leave the strike, I've got him on the list! I've got him on the list!" John Van der Meer, of the Musical Theater Guild, expressed his condolences, but reminded mourners that "The sad loss of MITGSP has not completely eliminated community theater at MIT. We hope all of MITGSP's avid fans will seek solace in some of the other fine theater groups on campus." --J ------- End of Forwarded Message  1,, Summary-line: 22-Feb CarolYN J Smith #calliope Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22646; Sun, 22 Feb 98 14:23:12 EST Received: from BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03284; Sun, 22 Feb 98 14:23:12 EST Received: by buzzword-bingo.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id OAA13374; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:23:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802221923.OAA13374@buzzword-bingo.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: calliope Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:23:10 EST From: CarolYN J Smith *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: calliope Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:23:10 EST From: CarolYN J Smith Here's a question--how do I increase the distance between staves--I'm doing something SATB and have very high also notes, and calliope wont let me put them in--it keeps forcing them onto the soprano line. --cyn  1,, Summary-line: 22-Feb CarolYN J Smith #calliope Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17078; Sun, 22 Feb 98 17:13:17 EST Received: from CATHEDRAL-SEVEN.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04891; Sun, 22 Feb 98 17:13:34 EST Received: by cathedral-seven.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id RAA28537; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:13:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802222213.RAA28537@cathedral-seven.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: calliope Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:13:07 EST From: CarolYN J Smith *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: calliope Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:13:07 EST From: CarolYN J Smith Another question: I have a document which leaves space at the top and I want to put in a title, how do I do that? I know I've done it before, but it isnt cooperating this time... --cyn  1,, Summary-line: 22-Feb CarolYN J Smith #calliope Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19011; Sun, 22 Feb 98 17:26:25 EST Received: from CATHEDRAL-SEVEN.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06915; Sun, 22 Feb 98 17:26:45 EST Received: by cathedral-seven.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id RAA00306; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:26:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802222226.RAA00306@cathedral-seven.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: calliope Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:26:23 EST From: CarolYN J Smith *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: calliope Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:26:23 EST From: CarolYN J Smith One last question: Even though the arrangement I have is for four parts, every once in a while one of the lines splits into two for a few measures. Is there a way to put that split on one staff (since it doesnt happen enough to warrent making the piece written on 5 or 6 staves). Oh, and I got the title to happen, although I still cant seem to change the font or size of the text. --cyn  1,, Summary-line: 23-Feb Mary Finn #Re: on- and off- topic queries Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29818; Mon, 23 Feb 98 14:45:49 EST Received: from gateway.intersys.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20885; Mon, 23 Feb 98 14:45:48 EST Received: by gateway.intersys.com id <813-1>; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:42:51 -0500 Message-Id: <98Feb23.144251est.813-1@gateway.intersys.com> X-Sender: finn@moon (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:39:30 -0500 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" From: Mary Finn Subject: Re: on- and off- topic queries In-Reply-To: <98Feb18.123924est.1114-3@gateway.intersys.com> Illegal-Object: Syntax error in References: value found on gateway.intersys.com: References: ^ ^ ^ ^ ^-illegal reference separator | | | \-illegal reference separator | | \-illegal reference separator | \-illegal reference separator \-illegal end of message identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *** EOOH *** X-Sender: finn@moon (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:39:30 -0500 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" From: Mary Finn Subject: Re: on- and off- topic queries In-Reply-To: <98Feb18.123924est.1114-3@gateway.intersys.com> Illegal-Object: Syntax error in References: value found on gateway.intersys.com: References: ^ ^ ^ ^ ^-illegal reference separator | | | \-illegal reference separator | | \-illegal reference separator | \-illegal reference separator \-illegal end of message identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:41 PM 2/18/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Mary, > >Thanks for looking over the "R&G" text. I was planning on sending it >along to the the archive once I was sure I didn't want to make any >more corrections to it. > >I'm curious what you mean by the directions running into the dialog. >It is possible that you are seeing something I intended, or you may >have a browser that formats things differently than mine (I'm using >Netscape). If there's a formatting problem, then I want to fix it >before submitting it. Can you reference a particular instance that >looks strange, and try to describe it for me? Umm, never mind. There's one place in the third tableau, but it's really okay. You might want to make sure you're consistent about when stage directions are italicised, and when they are in boldface. I didn't scrutinise it, so it may be fine. I just noticed that both styles are used. > >Good luck on your thesis. Thanks. > >Do you have any idea why Gilbert sort of abandoned the blank verse in >the third tableau? Even Claudius lapses for a moment. Or is there >some sort of playwriting rule of which I'm unaware? The short answer is "I don't know why Gilbert did that." There's certainly no convention that I can think of which would explain it. My first thought was that it would be funny if Hamlet, the supposed soliloquizer, always spoke his non-Shakepearean line in prose. That's true for his long "Player's" speech, but Rosencrantz and the Player also speak in prose in this section. Curious. One metrical thing worth noting is that the so-called "tragedy" is written in the four-footed meter Shakespeare usually reserved for songs. ********************************************************** Mary A. Finn phone: 617-225-3052 Senior Marketing Writer fax: 617-494-1631 InterSystems Corp. email: finn@intersys.com **********************************************************  1,, Summary-line: 26-Feb Andrew Crowther #A Grand Day Out with Rafe Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15279; Thu, 26 Feb 98 18:03:33 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06535; Thu, 26 Feb 98 18:03:31 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA17261; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:03:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:03:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980226225410.438f26ac@pop.brad.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A Grand Day Out with Rafe X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:03:13 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A Grand Day Out with Rafe X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) I got back yesterday from a brief trip to London, where I got to meet (at last) our esteemed Ralph MacPhail, Jr. He really is an extremely nice man - as I already knew from his letters and emails. He's over here in Britain for one of his regular theatre trips with students, but the students have returned to their native strand now, leaving him time to pursue his own ends. And he was generous enough to set aside the main part of Wednesday to meet me. We talked about many things - British sitcoms, the comic possibilities in London names, the exciting but strenuous pace of life in the capital, the astonishingly good weather... we even mentioned a couple of fellows called Gilbert and Sullivan.... He clearly knew the G&S-related parts of London much better than I do, and was able to point out Gilbert's birthplace (which, bizarrely, is at most a minute's walk from the Savoy Theatre), and many other things. We went up to Grim's Dyke, calling at Gilbert's grave on the way, and spent a leisurely couple of hours touring the grounds and the house, particularly marvelling at the restorations that are being made there under the new management. We got chatting with a man who seemed to be more or less in charge of restoring the grounds to their former condition - or rather, Ralph did, while I marvelled at his ability to strike up friendships with people in a moment. The man showed us what was being done to recreate the fatal lake (which apparently Lady Gilbert had had drained after WSG had died swimming in it); he also showed us the tennis court which Gilbert had had specially built, longer than the regulation size to cope with his long services (!) - covered in grass and moss, but still definitely there and recoverable. We were guided through the Yew Walk (or rather its neglected remnants: I gathered that the yews will take the best part of a lifetime to grow back into the required arches). We visited the little grave of Paul the lemur, buried by the croquet lawn. We had a superb lunch in the music room of the house itself, waited on by a man so absolutely the stereotypical Italian waiter that I half-suspected he might be a pure-bred Londoner having us on. (But a very charming man.) As has been mentioned on Savoynet before, Grim's Dyke was for many years left in neglect - at least as far as the grounds are concerned. But Ralph and I are optimistic that the place is at last being treated with the respect due to something which is (and I don't think this is just my personal obsession speaking) a national treasure, just as much as is the house of any other great British writer. After a little ceremonial exchange of gifts in the Library, we had to get back to central London (I had a coach to catch) - though not before meeting (if I remember correctly) the general manager of the hotel, whom Ralph knew already, and allowing him to show us some of the internal restoration work being done to, for instance, the wallpaper. But at last we had to tear ourselves away from that marvellous place, having spent a most wonderful afternoon which I am sure I shall remember for many, many years. Ralph asks me to send greetings to all at Savoynet. He says this has been a very enjoyable, though exhausting, holiday for him, and I suspect that when he returns to the States this weekend he will spend about the next week or so in solid sleep. Walking, talking, and lecturing, but still asleep.... - Andrew. Andrew Crowther 82 the Avenue, A.J.Crowther@bradford.ac.uk Clayton, Bradford, (01274) 882143 West Yorkshire BD14 6RT. Great Britain. Visit Babliophile, my W.S. Gilbert page, at: http://www.student.brad.ac.uk/ajcrowth/babphile.htm "...what is hailed as a new style or a new school in literature often consists of doing as a novelty what a Victorian did long ago as a joke." - G.K. Chesterton, "On Phases of Eccentricity", in _All I Survey_ (1933)  1,, Summary-line: 4-Mar Ernie Fosse #RE: Victory Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11117; Wed, 4 Mar 98 17:56:34 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14906; Wed, 4 Mar 98 17:56:55 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA26509; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:56:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:56:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <25983782061AD111B0800000F86310FE02B6CEC1@red-msg-42.dns.microsoft.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: erniefo@MICROSOFT.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ernie Fosse To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Victory X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:56:26 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: erniefo@MICROSOFT.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ernie Fosse To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Victory X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) <> If you have internet access, here's a URL that will take you to a lot of this type of info: http://www.isn.net/~dhunter/terms.html For instance: Barque: A vessel with three or more masts with square sails on the fore mast and fore and aft sails on the after mast. Generally in the range of 250 - 700 ton capacity. Barquentine: A vessel with three or more masts with square sails on the foremast, and fore and aft sails on the main and after masts. Generally in the 250 - 500 ton range. Brig: 1. A two masted vessel square rigged on both masts.Generally in the 150 - 200 ton range. 2. A sailing vessel's jail. Brigantine: A vessel with two or more masts, with fore and aft sails on both masts, normally in the tonnage range of 150 - 250 tons, but some P.E.I. brigantines exceeded 400 tons. Galley: 1. A sea going vessel propelled mainly by oars used in ancient times. 2. A kitchen in a ship or airplane. Punt: A small square ended rowing vessel. Schooner: A vessel with two or more masts, with fore and aft sails on both masts, normally less than 150 tons, but some of the triple masted schooners built on P.E.I. in the 1880's exceeded 700 tons. ErnieFo@Microsoft.Com  1, edited,, Summary-line: 8-Mar utomatic digest processor #FERRET-L Digest - 7 Mar 1998 to 8 Mar 1998 (#1998-2240) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29151; Sun, 8 Mar 98 02:02:03 EST Received: from listserv.cuny.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19268; Sun, 8 Mar 98 02:01:53 EST Message-Id: <9803080701.AA19268@MIT.EDU> Received: from listserv (128.228.100.10) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <2.FDA82820@listserv.cuny.edu>; 8 Mar 1998 2:00:38 -0500 Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 02:00:00 -0500 Reply-To: ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu Sender: ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu From: Automatic digest processor Subject: FERRET-L Digest - 7 Mar 1998 to 8 Mar 1998 (#1998-2240) To: Recipients of FERRET-L digests *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 02:00:00 -0500 Reply-To: ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu Sender: ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu From: Automatic digest processor Subject: FERRET-L Digest - 7 Mar 1998 to 8 Mar 1998 (#1998-2240) To: Recipients of FERRET-L digests There are 33 messages totalling 1182 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 12. sailing with ferrets ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 08:30:33 -0600 From: Don and Sharon Anderson Subject: sailing with ferrets This chapter on sailing with ferrets will deal with food, medication and health. I left the States with quite a cargo of ferret food sealed in Tupperware containers. Previously, I had measured their monthly consumption and was able to predict that we had enough food for about 4 months. The food was kept in the dryest part of the boat and has shown no evidence of spoilage. Friends who visit know that their job may be to bring additional food for the critters. Also, dry cat food has been available almost everywhere. Although I haven't had to use it, it was comforting to know it was possible to extend the food supplies if necessary. I am fortunate in that the boys are not picky eaters. I have even tried mixing several brands of food to see which they prefer and they always seem to eat whatever is on top. Immunization was a subject that I discussed thoroughly with my vet as it was another item that would probably need to be transported by friends. He was willing to communicate with other vets in order to assure our supply. This has worked out well for the first time as my sister would have been able to obtain the vaccines from her local vet. As it turned out, I am unexpectedly in the States and will be able to carry the meds myself. The only problem is keeping them cool during the transport. I have some blue ice, an insulated lunch bag and numerous containers for ice if I need to beg it from the airlines or any other place. I am able to give the shots myself (my vet taught me the last time the guys had shots). The only weak point here is that I do not have an official vaccination certificate. I have a receipt for the vaccines and a letter from my own vet stating that he prescribed them and that he had full confidence that they were correctly administered. Other preventative measures deal with fleas and heartworm. We really don't have a flea problem because the guys are rarely off the boat. I have used Advantage ( a half of a small tube per ferret) in a case where a visiting cat left us some fleas and again when we stayed in a hotel where the same thing happened. I try to put the Advantage high enough on the neck so it isn't likely to be chewed on during wrestling matches. Initially I was much more concerned about heartworm because everything I had read to date didn't offer a ready solution. One of the problems was that the dosages in pills was too big for ferrets and the effective ingredient wasn't evenly distributed in the pills, making it unwise to give a ferret part of a pill. This problem was solved in Florida. I had an article from the Ferret FAQ about Dr. Kemmerer's research on the problem. The Florida vet contacted Dr. Kemmerer who recommended what, to me, was a new product - kitten size feline Heartguard. I think this is essentially correct, but check it out for yourself as the meds are on the boat and I am unable to read the labels. Getting a ferret to eat the tablets is another story. I manage this by smashing them to smithereens, coating liberally with Linatone and dispensing over a period of a few days with the unused portion stored in a little plastic container in the refrigerator. My friends laugh because I have these little plastic lids labeled "Chubie" and "Dunkin" in order to be sure each gets the proper dose. When the lids are used for other things, people claim that I am feeding them ferret food. We haven't yet had any serious medical emergencies, but Chubie did have a problem that necessitated finding a vet. We were on Roatan in the Bay Islands of Honduras where the only veterinarian is one who visits once a month from the mainland. Chubie developed a deep, wet sounding cough and was sneezing a lot (even for a nosey ferret). He didn't have a runny nose or any other symptoms of a cold so I was really worried. Pet owning friends on the island told me how to get in touch with the vet in La Ceiba and the next day Chubie and I were on the airplane (a 15 minute flight). Dr. Calderon diagnosed an upper respiratory infection, gave Chubie a shot, and sent us home with some pills and another shot to be given a few days later. He also did blood and stool tests, sending the samples by bicycle to a nearby lab and getting the results back in less than two hours. Of course, I had many misgivings. After all, how could a vet trained in Honduras know anything about ferrets. What if it's a virus? What if it is some other exotic ferret disease? Where is Dr. Harris when I need him? Why don't I have a ferret medical book written in Spanish? (Does anyone know if there is such a thing?) But, to make a long story a little less long, the diagnosis must have been correct as Chubie recovered and has been fine since. All of this to my immense relief! This is all the factual stuff that I have to tell you, but I would like to do another post tomorrow telling you of some of our adventures. If you have questions about what I have written, please email me ASAP. If you have suggestions of things I might do or maybe haven't considered, please email me even sooner. I would like to hear your opinions or ideas. Shirley, Chubie and Dunkin' on Chelsea B ------------------------------  1, edited,, Summary-line: 9-Mar utomatic digest processor #FERRET-L Digest - 8 Mar 1998 to 9 Mar 1998 (#1998-2241) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16290; Mon, 9 Mar 98 02:02:32 EST Received: from listserv.cuny.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24508; Mon, 9 Mar 98 02:02:53 EST Message-Id: <9803090702.AA24508@MIT.EDU> Received: from listserv (128.228.100.10) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <1.2899DCD0@listserv.cuny.edu>; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 2:00:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:00:01 -0500 Reply-To: ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu Sender: ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu From: Automatic digest processor Subject: FERRET-L Digest - 8 Mar 1998 to 9 Mar 1998 (#1998-2241) To: Recipients of FERRET-L digests *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:00:01 -0500 Reply-To: ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu Sender: ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu From: Automatic digest processor Subject: FERRET-L Digest - 8 Mar 1998 to 9 Mar 1998 (#1998-2241) To: Recipients of FERRET-L digests There are 38 messages totalling 1376 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 16. sailing with ferrets ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:38:44 -0600 From: Don and Sharon Anderson Subject: sailing with ferrets This last post tells about one thing I have done right, several I would change completely, and one thing I have left to do. Chubie and Dunkin' are typical of most ferrets in that they love their Linatone and Ferretone. I have a squeaky toy (and a spare) and they come running when they hear it. It is very useful if I need to put them in their cage, but I also try to use it at random times just so they don't get any set expectations. I would highly recommend this to anyone, no matter where your ferrets live. You know the talent they have for getting into unexpected places. If I had it to do over again, I would be a hundred times more conscientious about knowing exactly where the little guys were. Due to my inattention, Dunkin' has given me several heartbreaking scares and days of worry. The first occurred on the passage from Florida to Belize. We were early ( or late - however you want to look at it) and expected to make landfall at Ambergris Cay in the middle of the night. Obviously, this wasn't such a good idea, so we hove to for a few hours to let some time go by. This is a maneuver for slowing the boat way down and allowing it to drift in a safe and comfortable manner. We did a few chores, enjoyed some relaxed time in the cockpit, colored our home made Belizian flag, and did one more navigation check. When we were ready to get underway, I looked for the ferrets to put them back in their cage and couldn't find Dunkin'. I squeaked the toy, hollered, searched, tore the boat apart and squeaked some more. Although I thought we had been careful and hadn't seen him even trying to get to the cockpit, the obvious conclusion was that he had gone overboard. I won't even go into the anguish and mental state that this caused. After repeated searches, scanning the water, and motoring in ever widening circles, we just had to conclude he wasn't with us. I arrived in Belize the next day in a state of complete decompensation. My state of mind was so bad that I had left the forward hatch open during the night, resulting in a completely soaked bunk. As a result, a bed and breakfast inn gave us a dry bed for a few days while we were getting things dried out. I didn't enjoy Belize. I felt that I had ruined my long planned cruise. I regreted my decision in buying Dunkin' and taking him on such an ill-fated trip. I knew that I was the most cruel, inattentive, careless person in the universe. I grieved, cried and grieved again. And all for nothing. On the third day after our arrival, I was putting things back together when I felt a tickle on my toe, looked down and saw a little white critter. It wasn't a ghost, it was our very own Dunkie. How did this happen? I later found out that he could get into the bunk via the top of the hanging locker if certain things were in exact places on the setee. Evidence shows that he spent the days trapped in a locker under the bunk. I think he was stuck and couldn't get out until he lost some weight, as there was no evidence of him anywhere else on the boat. He was hungry and thirsty but otherwise just fine - his rascally little self. This same little Houdini had another two day escape that occurred in a similar way - through my inattention and lack of awareness of his abilities and ingenuity. This time we were at a dock. He was gone for two days and, just when I had searched everywhere, talked to everyone I could find, and almost given up, he plopped through the forward hatch in the middle of the night right onto my face. I deserved worse, believe me, and he deserved better. In addition, I gave the local people a very peculiar idea of what we gringos do to pass the time. They got so used to me walking the area, squeaker in hand, that they finally stopped watching. Since then, I don't leave the boat even for a minute, unless the bug screen is securely snapped into place. If the companionway is open, I am watching the ferrets. If they are in the cockpit or on the deck, I keep an eye on them. It has been 5 months since the last escape, and I hope it will be 100 years before the next one. The last thing I intend to do to insure their safety, is to put together a ferret 'boarding ladder' and teach them how to use it. I think what I have planned will work, and, with the help of a few friends at strategic places in the water, the little guys are going to have a few survival lessons and learn how to get back aboard on their own. This doesn't mean Chubie and Dunkin' will get to roam at will. It is just a small insurance policy that might pay very big dividends. I know of three different boats who have lost their cat overboard at night while the boat was at anchor. If they had had such a system, they might not have had so much guilt and grief. Well, that's about it. Thanks to all of you for allowing me this space. Comments and suggestions are very welcome. I will be on the FML this week, then it is back to Roatan and the furry fuzzbutts. Shirley, Chubie and Dunkin' on Chelsea B ------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 16-Mar Fraser Charlton #Nautch Girl Recording Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05068; Mon, 16 Mar 98 04:05:45 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06811; Mon, 16 Mar 98 04:05:36 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA08530; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:05:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:05:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: Fraser.Charlton@newcastle.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Fraser Charlton To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Nautch Girl Recording X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:05:34 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: Fraser.Charlton@newcastle.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Fraser Charlton To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Nautch Girl Recording X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 As many of you know, Michael Walters and I have been working on a booklet about 'The Nautch Girl', the first full length non-G&S produced at the Savouy. Well, it's nearly there. Anyway, one of the tragedies of this exellent show is that the band parts were destroyed in the Chappell fire, and the only evidence left is a tape of an amateur production... Well, Michael had forgotten to tell me exactly where this production took place. It turns out to have been in Newcastle - more precisely, the society I have been a memeber of for the last 2 years, and the one I'm currently directing in 'The Arcadians'! A few inquiries revealed the person who did the recording (in 1959) was in the chorus... The original reel-to-reel was lost in a burgarly at the Church Hall many decades ago, but I now have a first generation copy. It's in mono (unsurprisingly), but it's in far better condition than the tape I preciously had and really very listenable. As an important historical document, as well as a damn good show (quite comparable to G&S), I wish to archive this recording. A couple of questions... 1) Does anyone have experience of transferring recordings to CD - isn't there someone doing this to old DCOC LPs? Are there programmes available that removes hiss (actually, Dolby C does a good job)? I have a decent soundcard (AWE64 gold) and my department will be getting a CD-RW soon. The whole music should fit on 1 CD without dialogue... 2) Who would want to buy a CD of this show? This might fund a CD-R for myself (!) as well as make some money for my society. And if one was available, would you prefer 1 CD of music or 2 CDs of music+dialogue? I suppose it'd be about 15 pounds a disc (does anyone have experience of this, too)? Thank you for your attention... Fraser. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fraser Charlton, Clinical Lecturer in Histopathology Royal Victoria Infirmary, Newcastle Upon Tyne Tel: 0191 232 5131 ex. 24856 E-mail: Fraser.Charlton@ncl.ac.uk WWW HomePage: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~nfc2 ----------------------------------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 16-Mar Bill Sommerfeld #Me.. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10611; Mon, 16 Mar 98 12:34:14 EST Received: from sommerfeld.ne.mediaone.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14095; Mon, 16 Mar 98 12:34:01 EST Received: (from sommerfeld@localhost) by orchard.arlington.ma.us (8.8.8/1.34) id RAA20296; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:34:01 GMT Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:34:01 GMT Message-Id: <199803161734.RAA20296@orchard.arlington.ma.us> From: Bill Sommerfeld To: dinner@MIT.EDU, sipb-soc@MIT.EDU Subject: Me.. *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:34:01 GMT From: Bill Sommerfeld To: dinner@MIT.EDU, sipb-soc@MIT.EDU Subject: Me.. Well, as many of you may have heard, I was job hunting for a while. Well, I'm now happily settling in at Epilogue Technologies in Wakefield (though I'm still getting messages wondering if I'm still hunting..). I'll likely continue to send most social/non-work-related mail from this address.. Anyhow, my new contact information: Work: 333 North Ave., 4th Floor Wakefield, MA 01880 (781) 245-0804 wes@epilogue.com and, for completeness (not that it's changed, other than the area code..): Home: 185 Summer Street Arlington, MA 02174 (781) 641-2014 sommerfeld@orchard.arlington.ma.us (sommerfeld@alum.mit.edu and wesommer@mit.edu forward here) My sommerfeld@apollo.hp.com address is long dead.. - Bill  1,, Summary-line: 16-Mar Rebecca Consentino #Re: Patience libretto -Reply -Reply (fwd) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10025; Mon, 16 Mar 98 15:24:08 EST Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08846; Mon, 16 Mar 98 15:23:57 EST Received: from localhost (consentr@localhost) by ride.emmanuel.edu.emmanuel.edu (8.8.5/8.7) with SMTP id PAA21782 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:16:35 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Patience libretto -Reply -Reply (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Patience libretto -Reply -Reply (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Regarding Bruce's search: Well! Read the following messages... too bad I didn't take a closer look, and tell someone nice like you who can afford to spend money on such things about this one. Eh bien. At least now I must be on Bruce's nice list (until I say something about cross-dressing, I suppose :) ). :) Becca Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:15:03 -0500 From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: consentr@emmanuel.edu Subject: Re: Patience libretto -Reply -Reply Dear Rebecca: Thanks. The copy you saw was the Stoddart first American edition of 1881 (which has a libretto mixed in with the vocal score). It isn't the version I was looking for, but I will still buy it anyway as it is probably a first American edition - they're holding it for me. Thanks for the tip! Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu >>> Rebecca Consentino 03/16/98 02:30pm >>> Hi Bruce, I remember that it was with the G&S scores. I'm not sure when I'll be going there again, but when I do, I promise to look for it, and if it's the 1902 libretto that you're looking for, I will certainly have it held under your name and let you know immediately. In case you're ever in town and want to stop in to browse, they have really good hours -- I think they're open till 9 pm most nights -- and they're on the corner of Mass and Comm. They get some pretty incredible stuff in sometimes. Best regards, Rebecca On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Bruce I. Miller wrote: > Dear Rebecca: I just called them and the guy on the phone couldn't find > it. Do you remember if it was in the opera libretto section or somewhere > else? If you happen to go in there again and see it, please ask them to > hold it for me and let me know asap. Thanks again for your help. > > > > > Bruce I. Miller > College of the Holy Cross > Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu > > >>> Rebecca Consentino 03/16/98 01:01pm > >>> > Bruce-- > > Try calling Orpheus on Comm Ave in Boston. I saw a hardbound Patience > there about a month ago, but didn't open it to look at it or anything. But > you never know; it might be it. > > I'm sure you can get the number from directory assistance. I don't know it > offhand, and I'm at work... > > Good luck! > > Becca > > > On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Bruce I. Miller wrote: > > > A version of the libretto for Patience was published in a formal, > > hardbound edition by Chappell in 1902 (printed in the USA by > Doubleday). > > If anyone has a copy and is willing to to part with it, or knows where > one > > is available, kindly notify me privately. Thank you! > > > > E-mail: bmiller@holycross.edu > > > > > > Bruce I. Miller > > College of the Holy Cross > > Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu > > > > > Rebecca Consentino > http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 > "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!" > > > Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!"  1,, Summary-line: 17-Mar P. D. PARKER #Re: BBC Omnibus- Savoynetters on programme Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20381; Tue, 17 Mar 98 10:17:44 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23861; Tue, 17 Mar 98 10:18:05 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA02589; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:17:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:17:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980317150706.11cfc1be@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: pdp@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: BBC Omnibus- Savoynetters on programme X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:17:19 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: pdp@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: BBC Omnibus- Savoynetters on programme X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) At 13:10 16/03/98 -0500, Rica Mendes wrote: >Was my interview edited out? I am afraid it was. The programme was 50 minutes long only and I reckon they must have taken more than ten times that on tape. When you get to see it I think you will agree that it did the Festival justice (and the Smiths). There was quite a lot of the Smiths but after all it was their show; without them these festivals would not happen. It was as much a story of the Smiths as it was about G & S. What surprised me was that they showed how sparsely the theatre was occupied in San Francisco and had Ian admitting on camera that the enterprise had cost him dear to the tune of $100,000. My guess is that in reality it was a great deal more than that. Someone asked for a blow by blow account and as no one else seems to have posted this, here goes: Opening scene: San Francisco Bay with Shirley Dean, Mayor of the City of Berkeley reading a proclamation welcoming the Festival. Shot on the landing stage before embarkation on the boat. Then: Similar declaration by British Consul opening the Festival. Shot on the dockside in 'Cisco. Mixture of shots of chorus singing Pinafore on the boat; people in costume going up the gang plank; shots from the helicopter; background music from tape or record. (I thought they would have to do something like that because of the wind noise that day!) Title ''Instant Merriment''; shots of Bay and bridge. fade to shots of Halifax town from high up somewhere; Ian Smith whistling in background, (A wandring Minstrel): shots of the outside then inside Haley Hill ISM HQ. Ian doing an interview on the phone. Neil also on phone. Cut to costume procession in Buxton; mixture in quick succession of shots of shows in Buxton, 'Cisco and Philly with Ian still on phone explaining visitor numbers etc. Shots of the Ians's family and twins etc. on a lawn. Shots interlaced with 'Cisco and FM broadcast station exhorting folk to book tickets for the theatre in 'Cisco. Ian on stage in his ''I had a dream speech''. Cut to interview with J.P Carobus outside the Zellerbach theatre in Berkeley. Shots of the opening performance of the Professional Mikado. Voice over by Ian, fade to shots of the trolley cars in 'Cisco; singing on journey round 'Cisco and up at Golden Gate bridge. (Many Savoynetters in these pictures.) Insert of film 1966 of Mikado; John Reed ''taken fron a county jail'' Cut to interview with Ian Bradley: Valerie Masterson ''Sun whose rays'' 1966 cut without losing p(l)ace to same song 1997 also Valerie. (Clever, but rather cruel as Valerie is now 30 years older!) Shots of Masterclass with Valerie & Gillian Knight. Ian in background explaining his motives for the festival Shots of Peggy Anne in Three Little Maids from 1997 production. Shots of the trolley cars in 'Cisco. Hail Poetry being sung, Ian in foreground. Shot of Stanley Knight (ex D'Oyly Carte business manager) on trolley. back to Zellerbach and students drumming outside. Ian with Belinda looking at bookings and closing top gallery of theatre due to lack of seat sales. Views of Bay, Berkeley Hotel, Ian etc to a backgound of the Nightmare song (very appropriate). Belinda saying festival has to be successful and praising Ian for spending his own money on it. Big sing in 'Cisco fades to Sorcerer, Lamplighters in theatre. Shots of Belinda and husband: Shots of Pacific ocean and paddling: shots of 'Cisco from the air and motorways in 'Cisco: more Carobus interview. Bay children in Mikado rehersal with Ian. More Bradley interview about Mikado: more Carobus Audition for Trial (Henry Carrey) with Ian: more Carobus: Alastair Donkin taking Trial rehersal. (Stephen Hill in evidence) Shots of Pinafore performance. Cut to hotel room with Peter Zavon working his computer, Don Smith and myself on a setee. Peter Zavon explains what Savoynet is: close up of myself to shown @ symbol on Tee shirt. Explanation of @ symbol by me. Cut to air view of Alcatraz island. Party disembarking on to Alcatraz: Pinafore music in background. (Lots of Savoynetters in shot). Carefully on tiptoe stealing song and interview with Frank Heaney, former correction officer. Close up of Stephen Turnbull in big floppy straw hat! Cut back to Trial dress rehersal with Newby conducting orchestra: more Carrey philosophising. Shots of Trial including Rica Mendes being led out of box. Gaffe by Donkin quoting Trial as first piece G & S wrote!!!!! More views of Trial inclusing S. Hill in jury box. More Bradley on Gilbert. Cut to Peggy Ann Masterclass. Doug Humphreys. At the line 'take off our shoes and stocking and paddle, cut to Pacific Ocean again. Interview with Geoffrey Smith on Iolanthe; to background of pictures of 'Cisco from top of a bus. Shots of the trolley car tour. Cut to interview with Peter Mulloy in Zellerbach theatre.More Bradley. Shots up at Golden Gate bridge. Shot of Carrey quoting Buttercup's song in Yiddish. More Carobus. Shots of Donkin; front of theatre, selling tickets, Belinda selling ephemera; Tom Round with Ian and Valerie. End few bars of Trial performance with audience reaction. Belinda making it clear it was not financially successful. Ian confirming ticket sales poor. Shots taken at the club night with Ian and Tom Round and (I think but may be wrong) John Alecca in 'Faint Heart never won fair lady'. Cut to shots taken from above Buxton of town. Ian and Neil discussing loss of $100.000. Cut to shots which appear to have been culled from the Songs of Praise programme at Buxton. Cachuca dancing; general shots of the Smith family, wife and children. Duke of Devonshire interview. John Reed 'When I was a lad...' taken from Songs of Praise. Interview with John Reed which gave rise to the title 'Instant Merriment'. More Bradley: Christening of Ian's twins in Buxton church. (NB: the vicar Stephen Shipley, not named on the programme, is a G & S fan and was previously attached to Ely Cathedral; Sullivan Society netters please note). Shots of Onward Christian Soldiers in church cut to same from Songs of Praise; (very different tempi)!!! Interview with Richard Hickox: he says he is to record Sullivan's symphony in/for year 2000. Shots of Ian in discussion with John Alecca, Marc Shepherd, Peter Zavon and Don Smith sitting at a table. (Location not obvious.) More Songs of Praise film. Childern from St Mary's school debussing. More John Reed. (NB: some of what I have labelled Songs of Praise my have been items not used in the actual programme as broadcast but taken by that video crew, and are certainly part of the festivities for that occasion). Shots of John Reed and Valerie Masterson rehearsing (or maybe a masterclass) from Yeomen. Interview with Valerie. Interview with Gillian Knight: complaining that the music schools neglect G & S. Interview with Mike Leigh. Shots of the G & S Opera Co in Pinafore, Valerie, Alastair. Interview with Rupet Christiansen, Opera critic. Back to Mike Leigh. Shots of the St Mary's Mikado: interview with Andrea Atherton director of the St.Mary's school production. More shots of the performance: three little maids ('dressed' in swimsuits to modern dance steps but original rhythm). This leads on to her statement saying there is a group of people who do not want to see G & S changed. Then cut to myself saying that the performance is nothing to do with Gilbert and is a travesty. She then states that we are more interested in what Gilbert had for breakfast on July 14th than exploring his work. Then a statement about the copyright years from Christiansen. (He clearly does not understand what the position was about copyright). Shots of Pinafore at Buxton. More Valerie on the raison d'etre for the festival. Neil saying the childrens's production was absolutely fabulous. Shots taken at the final dinner and awards ceremony of John Reed and Valerie Masterson doing 'I am the Monarch of the Sea'. Christiansen then states he would love to see Harry Enfield and Stephen Fry in Mikado and ENO the National Theatre do more productions of G & S. Shots of Reed doing 'When I was a lad' Rolling titles and credits. The items bracketed above are comments for which I take full responsibility. I had better let it be known that I do not agree with Andrea Atherton's views on G & S but that she is not correct in inferring that I belong to a group that do not like any change. Far from it, but change for change sake is not something I like and putting Mikado in a car factory is not my idea of G & S. It can make a good show just like the ENO Mikado but its not G & S. In the words of Ian Smith and others, 'if its not broke why mend it'. I liked the ENO Mikado. Equally ( and Americans may not understand my objection to the particular word used) I do not like to hear children using what are in UK swear words on stage in the Flowers that Bloom in the Spring. (we've already had enough discussion on Savoynet about this matter). Christiansen as a critic ought to know that D'Oyly Carte never ever held the copyright in G & S, only a performing right. They could not just do as they pleased but I doubt if the heirs of Gilbert would have ever sanctioned putting Mikado in a car factory even if they had been asked. Those reservations aside I thought the programme was well put together and I congratulate Nadia and her team. I have written to her to say so. The views held by folk are bound to differ (me included) and it takes all sorts. Its partly because there are differing views that such programmes can be made and presented. With apologies to anyone who appears that I have not mentioned. I hope this will have whetted your appetites to see the programme. Peter. Peter D Parker. pdp@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Summary-line: 19-Mar Sharon Chang #New email address Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08508; Thu, 19 Mar 98 11:55:10 EST Received: from martigny.ai.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28479; Thu, 19 Mar 98 11:54:51 EST Received: from exchange0.avicenna.com (exchange.avicenna.com) by martigny.ai.mit.edu with ESMTP (1.40.112.12/16.2) id AA140826421; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:53:41 -0500 Received: by exchange0 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:54:18 -0500 Message-Id: <41DBCB20F777D111B5AB006008948DB31C4003@exchange0> From: Sharon Chang To: "'lsc-alums@martigny.ai.mit.edu'" Subject: New email address Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:54:07 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" *** EOOH *** From: Sharon Chang To: "'lsc-alums@martigny.ai.mit.edu'" Subject: New email address Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:54:07 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Greetings, I left Fidelity last week and am back in Cambridge, working for a semi start-up called Avicenna Systems. The office is located next to One Kendall Square, in one of the two Draper buildings connected by a pedestrian walkway over Broadway. The company description: "Avicenna Systems Corporation is building a nationwide Internet-based healthcare services channel. The channel will provide physicians with an interactive link to hospitals, HMO's, pharmacies, insurance companies, drug manufacturers, etc., and will also make medical research, information gathering, and communication within the entire industry faster and easier than ever before." We'll see how it goes. My new email address: schang@avicenna.com. Sharon  1,, Summary-line: 19-Mar Mike Storie #Auditions Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13750; Thu, 19 Mar 98 13:39:56 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03443; Thu, 19 Mar 98 13:39:45 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA13434; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:39:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:39:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803191835.KAA11634@mail.nwlink.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: mstorie@nwlink.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Auditions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:39:02 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mstorie@nwlink.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Auditions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mime-Version: 1.0 Over the past few weeks there have been a number of interesting postings regarding the mechanics of auditioning, written from both sides of the table. I wanted to stick in my oar, but since we were right in the middle of auditions for "Pirates" I decided to wait until the process was completed. We presently have a policy of auditioning ALL performers for each show, whether they have been with us before or not. We feel that this prevents a "staleness" from setting in. Several people mentioned songs to use as audition pieces and several listed songs to "absolutely avoid." One such was "Poor Wandering One." To show you how contrary we are, we REQUIRED "Poor Wandering One!" After many years of "sing any song under three minutes in English -- accompanyist will be provided," and then asking them to sight-read from the actual show we were producing, we decided on a more structured approach. Our audition notices are sent out to individuals, schools, voice teachers and the media about six weeks in advance (I posted our most recent one to S-net). In the notice we specify the number of chorus, principal and supernumerary positions that are available. It also specifies that we are an amateur company. This year we held auditions over two weekend days with chorus members auditioning for three hours in the mornings and principals in the afternoons. If a person wanted to try out for a principal role but would accept a smaller principal role or a chorus role, they tried out for all of them. This was stated in the notice. People were asked to make appointments so that we would not have everyone showing up on one day. As it was, we had about 40 people show up at each of the four sessions, plus about 15 stunt supernumeraries. On the back of the audition notice, we specified the sections of the musical numbers that each person was to sing, and specified that those parts be memorized for the audition (usually only 1-2 pages of music). If people did not have their own vocal score, we provided the music in advance. People trying out for dual roles had to learn dual parts. For example, the women's chorus were to audition with part of "Hail Poetry" (Page 97) and "How beautifully blue the sky ... rain" (Pages 62-63). The men did Hail Poetry plus "Come friends . . to "C". Frederic was required to sing "Oh is there not . . ." plus "Stay Frederic stay," while Mabel sang "Yes tis M a a a a bel," plus "Poor wandering one," and "Stay Frederic stay. The later to test various Mabel/Frederic combinations. The other roles used similar procedures. The auditions were conducted by the Producer, the Stage Director and the Music Director, assisted by the Stage Manager and the Accompanyist. As people arrived, the Stage Manager gave each one a form which asked for the usual information. In addition it asked for each to describe themselves as to what they were wearing that day. The form also had a simple statement that "If selected, they would allow us to record and video their performance for purposes of publicity or fund-raising for the Society." They also were given a rehearsal schedule and asked to circle any conflicts. Resumes were attached and we also took a polaroid photo of each person and stapled it to the form. Each person was then assigned a number which they wore for the audition. All of the notes and comments were done by number and the faces were matched up later. This turns out to be a very valuable tool. We had over 120 people audition, and because of trying for various roles, we listened to the equivelant of over 170 singers. We were very careful not to mix people up. The audition method for the chorus consisted of vocal warm-ups for the whole group, some scale singing, several times through "Hail Poetry," with the entire chorus (about 40 people at this point) arranged in a semi-circle with sopranos on the left, then the altos, tenors and basses. As they sang, the Music Director walked in front of them listening to each singer. He then called four singers at a time (one for each part) to the center, had them stand about four feet apart, facing each other, and then he stood in the middle with his metronome and clipboard and had each quartette sing Hail Poetry. Yes we heard it that many times! Some people sang twice if there were more candidates for one part than another. He would occasionaly ask them to repeat part of it. He was listening for correct part singing. The ability to sing the melody is not necessarily what is required of a chorus member. He then went back to the semi-circle and asked people in each section to sing specific high and low notes to test their range. This was the only time that a chorus member had to sing alone. This process took about 2 hours for 40 people. The Stage Director then had them do a number improv excercises ("sound ball," "trapped in an elevator," etc) to see who was made of wood and who wasn't. At the end of each day we spent an hour or so selecting those we wanted for callback. The Music Director used a fairly formal matrix with headings like "intonation," "rhythm," etc. for each candidate. He then arranged them in his order of preference. The Stage Director kept notes on each candidate. The Producer merely broke ties and made sure that no one was missed in the process. Because many people indicated on their forms that they were trying out for a principal role, but would accept a chorus position, we had to start casting from the top. The only "easy" choices turned out to be the Major General and Ruth. The biggest problem was that we had over 20 candidates for Mabel and only four for Frederic! Our lead tenor of many seasons had decided to retire, mainly because he needed to get on with his life, and partly because he felt that a man of 50 shouldn't be pretending to be celebrating his "one and twentieth birthday." He has such a beautiful voice (nominated for "best male voice" at Buxton) that other tenors in town tended not to audition. The Mabels were another story. Of the 20, at least 10 were top-notch. The top 5 all nailed repeated high E-flats as we did our "Poor wandering one-off." The top two were to die for. Each would blow any of the Frederic candidates off the stage. The callbacks focused on balance between Mabels and Frederics. We brought in a couple of last-minute recruits and even put in a call to our retired hero who was on a business trip on the East coast. We were in the classic "look" vs "sound" problem in G&S. One Mabel was best at looks and acting, the other best at singing. (I repeat both were d..n good!) The Frederic who looked the best did not have the voice to match either Mabel and the choice boiled down to our retired hero or a young fellow with a beautiful voice who did not particularly look the part. This year, in an extraordinarily difficult decision, we opted for voice over looks. Fortunately, the Mabel not selected took "Edith." This, of course caused a trickle down through all the female singers. Similarly, of the four finalists for the Pirate King, two took chorus positions. The next hardest part is notifying everyone. We call successful candidates first to make sure that we have the cast nailed down. Then everyone who auditioned gets a call from either the Producer or the Stage Manager. The Producer handles all of the "tough" calls, such as people who have been in the cast but didn't make it this year. We do not offer specific feedback to people. Often the choice is simply one of Director's preference which is very hard to explain to to those not selected. The bottom line is that we have a dynamite cast (32 in the chorus plus principals and six "stunt" pirates) and a Producer, Director and Music Director who are suffering severe fatigue problems. Next year we will do the job over two weekends. I won't deny that the situation here in Seattle is somewhat unique. There are at least three other companies in the vicinity who do G&S regularly but there is a great deal of theatrical talent and activity in the city. We offer no money but we do offer a chance to perform before 9-10,000 people in a professional theater, a smoothly run organization, and a family feel, given the size of the organization. For this, people sign on for 36 rehearsals, a radio broadcast, 13 performances, and a chance to help move the sets between acts. I'm very thankful for the whole opportunity. I wish we could do it withouth the ordeal of auditions, but I'm convinced it's the only way to keep our performances fresh each year. Mike Storie Producer The Seattle Gilbert & Sullivan Society  1,, Summary-line: 24-Mar Marc Shepherd #Sullivan Hymns on the Net Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19126; Tue, 24 Mar 98 21:31:33 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01100; Tue, 24 Mar 98 21:31:19 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA15848; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:27:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:27:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <35185F12.42D4@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan Hymns on the Net X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:27:40 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan Hymns on the Net X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) One of my Discography correspondents alerted me to a site called The Cyber Hymnal, at http://tch.simplenet.com/Default.htm The site has MIDI transcriptions of over 1,000 Christian hymns and Gospel songs from many denominations, including 14 hymns by Arthur Sullivan. The Sullivan-specific page is at http://tch.simplenet.com/bio/asulliva.htm These MIDI transcriptions are first-rate. Each hymn is on its own page, with a picture of both the composer and author (if available). The words are on the page, and in most cases I had no difficulty singing along. If you haven't had a religious experience yet today, give this site a try! -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/  1,, Summary-line: 30-Mar Rebecca Consentino #Video orders and payment Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07952; Mon, 30 Mar 98 14:03:43 EST Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25053; Mon, 30 Mar 98 14:03:27 EST Received: from localhost (consentr@localhost) by ride.emmanuel.edu.emmanuel.edu (8.8.5/8.7) with SMTP id NAA22818; Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:55:50 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:55:50 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino Reply-To: Rebecca Consentino To: intothewoods@emmanuel.edu Cc: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Video orders and payment Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:55:50 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino Reply-To: Rebecca Consentino To: intothewoods@emmanuel.edu Cc: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Video orders and payment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello everyone, If you want a video, please sign up now. Those of you who have signed up, please bring me a check on Thursday. You can make the check out to me. At this point it looks like the cost will be $20. I will let you know if it is less. I have received orders from the following people: Maria Spinale Brenna Pomeroy Katherine Bryant Sarah Consentino Maureen O'Neil Rachel Breed L. Tyler Hains Megan Houpt Brett Conner Louise Cash Renee Coro Jennifer Wilkinson Stephen Fulchino Christie Dolan Michiko Kita Corinna Dirrane John Haeussler Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065  1,, Summary-line: 31-Mar Rebecca Consentino #Re: $$$ Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23239; Tue, 31 Mar 98 14:07:56 EST Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24942; Tue, 31 Mar 98 14:07:39 EST Received: from localhost (consentr@localhost) by ride.emmanuel.edu.emmanuel.edu (8.8.5/8.7) with SMTP id OAA22884; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:00:07 -0500 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:00:06 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Cc: rls@dimins.com Subject: Re: $$$ In-Reply-To: <199803311854.NAA15447@charon.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:00:06 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Cc: rls@dimins.com Subject: Re: $$$ In-Reply-To: <199803311854.NAA15447@charon.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Since no one will pay $32 a tape, we'll have to go with 2 cameras, I guess... How shall go about convincing you to make 'em $20 even? Can the second camera start moving around after Neal dies? Before "your fault" and "last midnight" and "no one is alone," all that active stuff? Please let me know. Do you want a score to borrow to keep track of the action and who's where? Thanks, Becca :o) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, David C. Jedlinsky wrote: > > Here's the problem: with only 17 tapes, three cameras is going to be > very expensive, like about $550 (or, $32 per tape). If we just did > two cameras (one on Neil, the other covering all the action), you'd > get down to $360, and I'd probably be convinced to make it an even > $340, or $20 per copy. Just one camera would drop the price to $270, > or $16 per copy. > > Becca, my dear, you have very expensive tastes. :-) If you can get 35 > orders, instead of 17, then you can do three cameras for $20 per > copy... > > On the other hand, the stage (not counting Neil) is fairly narrow, so > one camera wouldn't be *that* bad. > > Let me know what you want to do. > > -Dave > Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!"  1,, Summary-line: 31-Mar Rebecca Consentino # Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22176; Tue, 31 Mar 98 17:03:57 EST Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21913; Tue, 31 Mar 98 17:04:20 EST Received: from localhost (consentr@localhost) by ride.emmanuel.edu.emmanuel.edu (8.8.5/8.7) with SMTP id QAA24364 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:56:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:56:07 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:56:07 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the count is up to 18! Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!"  1,, Summary-line: 1-Apr Rebecca Consentino #20 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06072; Wed, 1 Apr 98 10:45:14 EST Received: from emmanuel.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21895; Wed, 1 Apr 98 10:45:37 EST Received: from localhost (consentr@localhost) by ride.emmanuel.edu.emmanuel.edu (8.8.5/8.7) with SMTP id KAA38680 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:37:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:37:24 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: 20 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:37:24 -0500 (EST) From: Rebecca Consentino To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: 20 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think we're up to 20 videos now. becca :o) Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!"  1,, Summary-line: 1-Apr Andrew Solovay #VIRUS ALERT!!1! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04059; Wed, 1 Apr 98 17:50:02 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18935; Wed, 1 Apr 98 17:50:26 EST Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA05564; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:49:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:49:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <000501bd5dbf$f422a5d0$a980b8ce@palantir.infospace-inc.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: asolovay@infospace-inc.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Andrew Solovay" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: VIRUS ALERT!!1! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:49:42 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: asolovay@infospace-inc.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Andrew Solovay" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: VIRUS ALERT!!1! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Subject: Virus Info If you received an EMail titled "THE MERRIE JESTS OF HUGH AMBROSE" do NOT open it. It will format your hard drive and also your floppy disks. If you have a printer, your computer will start printing out vowels to send to Bosnia. You're modem will call up Bruce Miller and say "I love you marry me, love David Craven." Microsoft has released an official announcement saying "yup you betcha this is for real a virus yes indeedy". please forward this message to all of you're friends on the Internet with thte official subject line "MAKE MONEY FAST". If you are not sure if youre friends have email, please FAX them this announcement. This is Important, please give it you're attention right away!!!1!  1,, Summary-line: 8-Apr newtune@loom.net.au #Re: My Big 4-0 [was "Happy Birthday" (off topic)] Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00815; Wed, 8 Apr 98 14:12:29 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07784; Wed, 8 Apr 98 14:12:52 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA01802; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980409045401.007bf140@loom.net.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: newtune@loom.net.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: newtune@loom.net.au To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: My Big 4-0 [was "Happy Birthday" (off topic)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980408112930.00b3fb18@mailhost.sundial.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: newtune@loom.net.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: newtune@loom.net.au To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: My Big 4-0 [was "Happy Birthday" (off topic)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980408112930.00b3fb18@mailhost.sundial.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) At 11:22 AM 4/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >Well, I guess I can't expect anyone to sing Happy Birthday to me on April >11. I wouldn't want anyone to get sued. > >But if anyone wants to help me enter the 40s, the date is April 11. Dear Punster, Bard, inter alia, I am usually late, so I'll get in early this time. With great sympathye (it's not that far away for me) I write to you the Ode to the Bard: When you think you're a healthy young fellow, Who can rout an entire French bordello, And can swagger, boast, pose, strut and bellow As if he were twenty years old; When the summers begin to feel colder And the friends all around you seem older And your life story fits in one folder And you suddenly feel very cold; (Dank and mouldy, dank and mouldy...) When you balance your life as a loss And you greet the new day with a tear, There is one little thought that can possibly, possibly, maybe retrieve you from here. Though decrepit and ancient and senile and weak, You can now wisely see; You've outgrown the pretences of moral mystique, You could pass for three. You're as young, just as young as you want to be. When you start your life, starting all over, As a greentip amongst the old clover, Rather more of a dwarf than a nova, Or an acolyte sipping a beer; When you're happy again with your lot, There'll be people who'll say that you're not, And you'll feel that you're missing the plot When they tell you, they tell you you've got no idea. (Sinking, sinking...) But you're well in the front of your newly found friends, They might never quite see - You can make up your own age and life never ends, For you're ageless and free, You're as young as you want to pretend to be. Please use the trill carefully, and happy birthday. Robert Jones. newtune@loom.net.au Sydney, Australia.  1,, Summary-line: 8-Apr EARS4U #Joke and art works for sharing.... Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05250; Wed, 8 Apr 98 15:47:02 EDT Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10397; Wed, 8 Apr 98 15:47:25 EDT Received: from EARS4U@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id 3YTIa02204; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:39:22 -0500 (EDT) From: EARS4U Message-Id: <9e5c4668.352bd26c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:39:22 EDT To: ELCM@aol.com, varley_don@fctg.com, dclarke@mail.tds.net, dclarke@mail.tds.net, JELJFL@aol.com, jmoher@Kollsman.com, rguertin@sprynet.com, 75051.712@compuserve.com, Mywald@compuserve.com, furus@ibm.net, OfficerNH@aol.com, hfl1@ix.netcom.com, AHayes19@idt.net, ahayes19@idt.net, carol.maglin@gsel.org, tobynh@juno.com, StephenClark1@compuserve.com, drbrady@totcon.com, Nelliemay2@aol.com, JohnMoore3@aol.com, j_ramsay@conknet.com, signet2@sprynet.com, MBJJJSTP@aol.com, DEZITRON@aol.com, Leanie0927@aol.com, Simeone@unitrode.com, rlrjs@email.msn.com, jnichols_495@yahoo.com, lscosta@bu.edu, Globalnote@aol.com, BIBST@aol.com, bill_g@flt.com, Paulzers@aol.com, 73414.3321@compuserve.com, JLEVIN@SC9.intel.com, Leo2@ix.netcom.com, printe29@idt.net, gil.vickery@gsel.org, harrisco@wintern.MIT.EDU, tmesser@nhaat.mv.com, opus@MIT.EDU, MoovyMagic@aol.com, cync@world.std.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Joke and art works for sharing.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 63 *** EOOH *** From: EARS4U Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:39:22 EDT To: ELCM@aol.com, varley_don@fctg.com, dclarke@mail.tds.net, dclarke@mail.tds.net, JELJFL@aol.com, jmoher@Kollsman.com, rguertin@sprynet.com, 75051.712@compuserve.com, Mywald@compuserve.com, furus@ibm.net, OfficerNH@aol.com, hfl1@ix.netcom.com, AHayes19@idt.net, ahayes19@idt.net, carol.maglin@gsel.org, tobynh@juno.com, StephenClark1@compuserve.com, drbrady@totcon.com, Nelliemay2@aol.com, JohnMoore3@aol.com, j_ramsay@conknet.com, signet2@sprynet.com, MBJJJSTP@aol.com, DEZITRON@aol.com, Leanie0927@aol.com, Simeone@unitrode.com, rlrjs@email.msn.com, jnichols_495@yahoo.com, lscosta@bu.edu, Globalnote@aol.com, BIBST@aol.com, bill_g@flt.com, Paulzers@aol.com, 73414.3321@compuserve.com, JLEVIN@SC9.intel.com, Leo2@ix.netcom.com, printe29@idt.net, gil.vickery@gsel.org, harrisco@wintern.MIT.EDU, tmesser@nhaat.mv.com, opus@MIT.EDU, MoovyMagic@aol.com, cync@world.std.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Joke and art works for sharing.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 63 Had a free moment, dropping by.... saying hi... A young boy had just gotten his driving permit. He asked his father, who was a minister, if they could discuss the use of the car. His father took him to his study and said to him, "I'll make a deal with you. You bring your grades up, study your bible a little and get your hair cut and we'll talk about it." After about a month the boy came back and again asked his father if they could discuss use of the car. They again went to the father's study where his father said, "Son, I've been real proud of you. You have brought your grades up, you've studied your bible diligently, but you didn't get your hair cut!" The young man waited a moment and replied, "You know Dad, I've been thinking about that. You know, Samson had long hair, Moses had long hair, Noah had long hair, and even Jesus had long hair...." To which his father replied...."Yes, and they WALKED everywhere they went!" ****************************************************************************** ********** .~ ~ -.\ /.- ~~ . Just because......... > `. .' < ( .- -. ) Here's a flower from me to you, `- -.-~ `- -' ~-.- -' Just in case your feeling blue. ( : ) _ _ .-: Know that someone is thinking ~--. : .--~ .-~ .-~ } of you dearly, ~-.--.-~.\_ .~ .-~ .~ Daily, monthly, even yearly. \ \' \ '_ _ -~ So smile for me. `.`. // And let the sun shine . - ~ ~-.__`.`-.// through, .-~ . - ~ }~ ~ ~-.~-. For there's someone, .' .-~ .-~ :/~-.~-./: Somewhere, /_~_ _ . - ~ ~-.~-._ Watching over you. ***************************************************************************** ****************** <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*> , 7 7 7 77', ' 7 , ,7'' ' 7, ; , 7 ' ' 7'.'' , 7 ', ', ; '7. ', ' ;7, ; ' ' 7.', , , ,'' '7, . 7 ',' ;;;; ' 7', '7,' ;;;; ,'    ('') , ' 8,.777., ,.777.,8 ', '''''' '' , , ' 7, ,@. 7 '' 7 .@, ,7 ', '' '' '' ; ' ,. ' , 7 ' (```444) ' . ' , ('')    ; ', ,' , ' ,, ' , ', ',7'' ~'''''' ', ', ; '7, ''('' ,7'' ; ,' ,' '' '' '' ', ', ' , ' 7 , , , 7 ' ,' , ' ,' '', ;''''''' 7, , 7 '''''''' ,'' '', , '', ,,',7 ,, 7,',, ,'' , ' ',' '  , 7'''7 , ' ,  '' ,' '' '' '' '' '; ,' ; ; ; '' 7 , ; '', , '' '' ,'' ,' , . . . . . . . . . . , 7 '' ; 7,` ( 7' 7  '' 7  . . . ,) 7 ))) 77'' ,'' (((7 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>< This is a cyber hug forward it around to all that are Friends enough to be hugged by you. **************************************************** Audios! (adios) bArRy  1,, Summary-line: 13-Apr Mark W. Eichin #St. Ek-Chuah Day Chocolate Party Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14143; Mon, 13 Apr 98 18:12:38 EDT Received: from paycheck.thok.org by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14102; Mon, 13 Apr 98 18:12:52 EDT Received: (qmail 14162 invoked by uid 3382); 13 Apr 1998 22:11:59 -0000 To: eichin-ek-chuah@thok.org Subject: St. Ek-Chuah Day Chocolate Party From: eichin@kitten.gen.ma.us (Mark W. Eichin) Date: 13 Apr 1998 18:11:57 -0400 Message-Id: Lines: 45 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.56/Emacs 19.34 *** EOOH *** To: eichin-ek-chuah@thok.org Subject: St. Ek-Chuah Day Chocolate Party From: eichin@kitten.gen.ma.us (Mark W. Eichin) Date: 13 Apr 1998 18:11:57 -0400 Lines: 45 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.56/Emacs 19.34 According to Teubner et. al, "The Chocolate Bible", Ek-chuah is the Mayan patron saint of cocoa. (And an ugly dude he is...) Ek-chuah also represents protection of merchants, and the Mayan military-industrial complex (war and trade were closely tied.) According to Greg Stark, "The best thing about St. Valentine's Day is that you can get cheap chocolate the day after." Well, Easter exhibits the same phenomenon... and this time we've got Chocolate Bunny Rabbits to hunt! According to http://web.mit.edu/registrar/www/calendar.html, Monday and Tuesday are MIT holidays, so you won't be tooling on Saturday. Thus, you are all invited to a Chocolate Party Where: my place in Davis^2. Trivially red-line accessible; when you reply to this invitation, I'll send you directions. (If you still have the directions from last time, RSVP anyway!) Why: in celebration of cheap chocolate. Don't forget to bring some :-) There will be fancier chocolate in at least sample quantities, including El Ray 70% dark, the darkest chocolate on the market... When: Saturday, 18 April 1998. It'll start at 4pm as a tea & chocolate party, and continue until people leave (I don't have any closets for you sleep in, though.) I'll probably make ziti casserole if enough people indicate that they plan to be around for dinner. Who: This invitation went to the lists: chocolate-lovers, tea-lovers, dinner, sipb-soc. It also went to some individuals. Do not forward this to any lists, but recommend the lists to me instead. Feel free to invite other individuals, but mention them when you respond (and be sure they respond too.) RSVP: It is particularly important that you respond; my apartment was somewhat crowded at the last tea party, but if I panic early enough I can relocate some things to make the space more effective. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! _Mark_  1,, Summary-line: 20-Apr Ephraim Jones #New Mikado Score Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21222; Mon, 20 Apr 98 13:17:58 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18577; Mon, 20 Apr 98 13:17:57 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA10460; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <353B819D.DCBEBE02@onepine.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: hammettj@onepine.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ephraim Jones To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New Mikado Score Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05C-DIAL (Macintosh; U; PPC) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: hammettj@onepine.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ephraim Jones To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New Mikado Score Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05C-DIAL (Macintosh; U; PPC) I have recently joined the Savoynet forum and have enjoyed reading the postings. I am a professional music engraver living in New York City. Since my college days at Oberlin Conservatory (a long time ago) I have loved the Gilbert and Sullivan operas. I spent a summer on Cape Cod in 1968 in Falmouth where we performed 5 of the operas. The operas were directed by a former director of the DC company (forgive me, I can't recall his name, but he was there during the 1950s when Bridget D'Oyly Carte was still alive). When I began my career as a music engraver I always had in the back of my mind to publish new editions of the operas especially the full scores which are either nonexistant or in limited (expensive) editions. I began work on The Mikado two years ago and submitted it recently to Dover. They will be publishing the full score this fall and are also interested in the piano vocal score which I also completed. The edition will be a critical edition based on the Kalmus full score and it will retail for Dover's usual low price. After I examined a copy of the autograph score at the NYC Library of the Performing Arts I decided it would be easier to work from the Kalmus score and then use my printout to work with the autograph. The full score will include all of the dialogue and most of the stage directions which I took from the Schirmer vocal score. All of the repeated sections in both the full and vocal scores have been written out except for "Willow, tit-willow" and "Brightly Dawns Our Wedding Day." I believe the vocal score will be well received as I have incorporated some features which I believe are helpful: 1) the character names appear in the margins throughout the score 2) the piano part retains much of the material of the Chappell and Schirmer versions but is a little easier to play and I have rewritten many passages to better reflect what the orchestra plays. The rewritten piano parts will be particularly evident in the Overture, "As Some Day It May Happen", the entire first act finale, "The Criminal Cried", "Here's A How-de-do", "Willow, tit-willow" and the second act finale. 3) I have used the uncut version of "Were you not to Ko-Ko Plighted" for both scores but may include the trimmed version in an appendix of the vocal score. 4) I used a slightly smaller text font for the lyrics so I was able to fit more music on the pages, which will mean a little less page turning for the pianist. 5) Measure numbers appear on each system of the vocal and full score. I have listened to recordings carefully and incorporated some but not all of the additions to the score that are generally accepted. Examples of these would be the bassoon line in the second verse of "Young man, despair" and the clarinet passages in "Here's a How-de-do" which are absent in both the autograph and the Kalmus edition. The orchestral introduction to the second verse of "A More Humane Mikado" and the ending flourish have been changed to the way it is performed today. I engraved this score using Finale on a Macintosh so I was able to carefully proof the score for wrong notes (and boy, did I find wrong notes!) with midi playback. A complete set of engraved orchestra parts will be available from MMB Music, St. Louis when the score appears in print. The parts will be available both in a pit orchestra version with the piccolo/ flute II and percussion on one part and a symphonic version with individual parts for each. Measure and rehearsal numbers will be consistent for the full score, vocal score and orchestra parts. The editor/publisher for all the scores is Carl Simpson, who is chief editor at MMB Music, St. Louis, MO. It is possible, if these editions are well received, that others will follow, maybe even a nearly complete set of the operas. I welcome any questions that any of you may have regarding the publication of The Mikado. Please be patient for my response. I am swamped with work presently and it may take a while for me to answer everyone. Ephraim Hammett Jones  1,, Summary-line: 21-Apr David Duffey #TBJ: Chorus costumes Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26551; Tue, 21 Apr 98 07:28:42 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01945; Tue, 21 Apr 98 07:28:38 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA24839; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <483a3b71e5dduffey@argonet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: TBJ: Chorus costumes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Pluto 1.07 for RISC OS 3.7 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: TBJ: Chorus costumes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Pluto 1.07 for RISC OS 3.7 On 20 Apr, Michael Paul Nash wrote: > a list of occupations or individuals who would definitely NOT have > sat on a British jury in 1875, so I know what costumes must be > avoided. It would be an interesting exercise to compile a list of G&S characters who are entitled to sit on a British Jury. Anyway, here is a list of the definitely NOT in 1875: Anyone not a citizen of Britain Women Anyone younger than 21 The monarch Peers of the realm Serving members of the armed forces The clergy (Church of England, Church in Wales, Presbyterian) Members of Parliament Past and present holders of judicial office (Judges, Justices of the Peace) Officers of the Court and court staff (barristers, solicitors, attorneys, clerks, Ushers, etc.) Police Officers These last two categories disbarred for 10 years after they leave office) The insane, even if subsequently certified sane Anyone who is serving or who has served a prison sentence Anyone on bail Anyone not on the register of electors. This last category gives rise to a whole host of "probably nots" and "very unlikelies". The qualification for inclusion on the electoral roll in 1875 was: "Holding freehold, leasehold or copyhold of land or real property attracting a single rate of forty shilling or greater per annum" This would have excluded most what would have been called the labouring classes and the lower middle classes. George & Weedon Grossmiths Mr Pooter, for example, although striving vigorously for "respectability" and employing a servant, lived in rented accommodation. This was the pattern of occupancy at the time. Only those with a title to the land or property could vote and therefore be a juryman. So servants and most wage-earners would also be excluded. Those included would most commonly be tradesmen owning their own businesses. David -- The Family Duffey 107 Fulbridge Road Peterborough PE1 3LE (+44) (0)1733 552791 -- The Family Duffey 107 Fulbridge Road Peterborough PE1 3LE (+44) (0)1733 552791  1,, Summary-line: 21-Apr Mary Finn #advance warning Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23655; Tue, 21 Apr 98 09:49:51 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29984; Tue, 21 Apr 98 09:49:50 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA27815; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <98Apr21.094322edt.13836-1@gateway.intersys.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: finn@intersys.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mary Finn To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: advance warning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: finn@intersys.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mary Finn To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: advance warning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Q: Where will you be in the autumn of the year 2000? A: Amherst, Massachusetts Q: Oh, really? And why might that be, pray tell? A: Because at that far-future time, the Valley Light Opera will present a double bill of TRIAL BY JURY (libretto by W.S. Gilbert, music by A.S. Sullivan) and THE FOUNDLING (libretto by M.A. Finn, music by R.?. Weingart). The Valley Light Opera is an excellent "amateur" theatre group in western Massachusetts. I saw their production of THE MIKADO a few years ago, and was very impressed. They almost did THE FOUNDLING at that time, but opted instead to perform excerpts at their annual meeting. It must have been well received, because their board has now voted for a full production. I am very, very happy! My thanks to Bill Venman, and others at VLO who kept interest in THE FOUNDLING alive. THE FOUNDLING is the G&S parody (perhaps pastiche would be a better word) that Bob Weingart and I wrote years ago, and that premiered at MIT in early 1994. Unless someone beats them to it, the VLO production will be the first one since the first one. MARK YOUR CALENDARS! I am counting the months already. Q: Is SavoyNet going to get spammed about this every time we turn around? A: No. I shan't mention it again for at least another year. (Approximately.) ********************************************************** Mary A. Finn phone: 617-225-3052 Senior Marketing Writer fax: 617-494-1631 InterSystems Corp. email: finn@intersys.com **********************************************************  1,, Summary-line: 21-Apr Sam L. Clapp #Re: Apostrophes - quite off topic Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14464; Tue, 21 Apr 98 13:41:34 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19842; Tue, 21 Apr 98 13:41:33 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA03968; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <001e01bd6d4c$4fe39960$0da7ad98@CLAPPSL> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: sam.l.clapp@vanderbilt.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sam L. Clapp" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Apostrophes - quite off topic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: sam.l.clapp@vanderbilt.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sam L. Clapp" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Apostrophes - quite off topic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 I quote Diana Hacker in the Bedford Handbook: Rule 36d. Use an apostrophe and -s to pluralize numbers mentioned as numbers, letters mentioned as letters, words mentioned as words, and abbreviations. That is: figure 8's Big black X's too many and's in this sentence and buy 3 VCR's. She goes on to mention, however, that the MLA recommends no apostrohe in plurals of numbers and abbreviations. (figure 8s, VCRs) However, it seems to leave letters, words, and numbers (mentioned as such, of course) quite alone. Steve Lichtenstein, you are hereby absolved. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Sam L. Clapp 2106 Fairfax Ave. #16 Distinctly Precious, Blessed, Subtile, Nashville, TN 37212 Significant and Supreme! (615) 269-7918 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----Original Message----- From: MusikDrama To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Date: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Apostrophes - quite off topic >Some of you may have noticed that in my errata lists, when I refer to >individual note names, I tend to call them A's, B's, C's, etc. > >I know this is incorrect, and I apologize for my contribution to the >dissolution of correct grammar -- but in this case it's (note correct >usage!) a purely aesthetic decision on my part. I just think A's looks better >and clearer than As in the context. So sue me! > >Steve Lichtenstein >MusikDrama@aol.com  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 21-Apr Kirby, Dave #Apostrophes again Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17277; Tue, 21 Apr 98 18:04:00 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14719; Tue, 21 Apr 98 18:03:55 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA08520; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dave.kirby@TANDEM.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Kirby, Dave" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Apostrophes again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: dave.kirby@TANDEM.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Kirby, Dave" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Apostrophes again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Obviously, a lot of people haven't kept pace with the evolution of the English language. While it is true that the apostrophe formerly signaled possession or omission, now it merely means, "Look out! An 'S' is coming!" Here is a bit of fun taken from the Net (SOMEbody on the Net does care, after all), a parody of the Abbott & Costello "Who's on First" routine, that cleverly gilds the philosophic pill. A: It's not that it's a mortal sin, it's just that its spelling sucks. C: Whose spelling? A: Its spelling. C: It's spelling what? A: No, just its spelling. C: What's it spelling? A: Spelling? It's not spelling. C: YOU SAID IT WAS SPELLING SUCKS! A: No, I never said it was spelling anything. I merely remarked that its spelling sucks. C: There! You mentioned "it's" again. A: No I didn't, I comment upon its spelling. It doesn't even have an again, so I certainly didn't mention its again. Anyway, you're the one who said it's spelling. C: There, you did so mention "it's" again. And I wish you would tell me what it's spelling. A: Who's spelling anything? C: I don't even know whose spelling we're using! Your spelling! A: I'm not spelling. I'm Abbott. You're spelling. You're the one who's spelling "sucks," and whose spelling sucks. As I said, we're talking about something important: your spelling. C: I thought *it* was spelling, not me. I thought I was Costello; you mean now I'm Spelling? A: You're spelling too, but poorly. The simple rule for keeping track of possessives versus contractions is that here it's its own worst enemy, there they're their own best friends, and everywhere since days of yore, you're your own toughest proofreader. C: I give up already. Can't we please just speak Perl? -- In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.  1,, Summary-line: 21-Apr Marc Shepherd #Re: Re : New Mikado Score Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27500; Tue, 21 Apr 98 18:47:28 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25279; Tue, 21 Apr 98 18:47:25 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA09619; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <353D1BD6.1116@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Re : New Mikado Score Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Re : New Mikado Score Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) David Cookson wrote: > Yes indeed, a mutually consistent FS, VS and BP - what a luxury that would > be for any MD. However, there is also room for a full "critical" score, > giving all the variations. Yes, and that's *exactly* what the Broude edition is. I won't speculate what the Oxford edition is about, but in a few months we should all know. Clearly, there are many things we want from our G&S editions: -- We want them to be user-friendly (readable notation, reasonable page-turns) -- We want them to be accurate -- We want them to present the textual history of the opera -- We want them to embody intelligent editorial decisions -- We want FS, VS and band parts that match So far, we don't have all of these for any opera. Maybe, by the end of this year, we'll be there for at least a couple of operas. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/  1,, Summary-line: 23-Apr Eric Peterson #Apostrophes Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18308; Thu, 23 Apr 98 06:58:38 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15170; Thu, 23 Apr 98 06:58:33 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA12238; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <353F1A7C.73533AE8@ix.netcom.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: erique@ix.netcom.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Eric Peterson To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Apostrophes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: erique@ix.netcom.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Eric Peterson To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Apostrophes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) This thread is probably dead by now (i'm a little behind on my reading), but here is an URL of an essay I had published about ten years ago in Philly which garnered much amusement and letters to the editor in one of the local papers: http://www.toastpoint.com/writing/english.html It's on that VERY topic! Incidentally, one of my favorite examples of bad English on hand-written signs was a restaurant with a sign in the window, "Waitress Required". I guess you had to bring your own... - Eric ----------------------------------------------- Eric Peterson - erique@ix.netcom.com Limericks, Haiku and Bad Fiction Contests at The Toast Point Page! - now at www.toastpoint.com! -----------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 24-Apr Sternenberg, Philip #RE: Dave Barry Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23775; Fri, 24 Apr 98 13:25:18 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19535; Fri, 24 Apr 98 13:25:18 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA06024; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804241717.NAA29061@Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: PHILIP@msmail.awii.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip (HAC)" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: RE: Dave Barry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: PHILIP@msmail.awii.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip (HAC)" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: RE: Dave Barry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) >I've been a Dave Barry fan for a long time. Has anyone ever seen the >column he wrote about opera? It didn't mention G&S but it was very funny. >I think I clipped that one. > >Rebecca Consentino I've seen it, if you're talking about the column that includes a statement that I've committed to memory: " 'Aria' is Italian for 'song that will not end in your lifetime.' " Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@msmail.awii.com  1,, Summary-line: 26-Apr MABromberg #Updated Sala lighting inventory Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05714; Sun, 26 Apr 98 15:20:45 EDT Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23312; Sun, 26 Apr 98 15:20:35 EDT Received: from MABromberg@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id 7KYFa02408; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:20:18 -0400 (EDT) From: MABromberg Message-Id: <1068607.354388f3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:20:18 EDT To: rsmarcus@MIT.EDU, slevine@MIT.EDU, zacheiss@MIT.EDU, mdeeds@MIT.EDU, klmitch@MIT.EDU, mkendall@MIT.EDU, mrbonk@MIT.EDU, gsp-lights@MIT.EDU, goodmanj@MIT.EDU, mikesch@MIT.EDU, vandj@pegasystems.com, crezek@MIT.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Updated Sala lighting inventory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 *** EOOH *** From: MABromberg Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:20:18 EDT To: rsmarcus@MIT.EDU, slevine@MIT.EDU, zacheiss@MIT.EDU, mdeeds@MIT.EDU, klmitch@MIT.EDU, mkendall@MIT.EDU, mrbonk@MIT.EDU, gsp-lights@MIT.EDU, goodmanj@MIT.EDU, mikesch@MIT.EDU, vandj@pegasystems.com, crezek@MIT.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Updated Sala lighting inventory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 MIT lighting fans, Here's the latest Sala lighting equipment inventory, updated as of "Pirates of Penzance" strike. There are also three 2-pin Twistlock to stage pin adapters which obviously belong in Little Theatre for dimmer patching, but two similar- looking 20A Edison to stage pin adapters (for the pin spots) are missing from La Sala (probably in Little Theatre). If you're doing a show in Little Theatre soon, please see if you can find the two Edison adapters and trade them for the three 2-pin Twistlock adapters. Mike Bromberg **** Included file follows **** MIT Gilbert & Sullivan Players M. Bromberg 4/26/98 Sala de Puerto Rico Lighting Equipment Inventory 2 Outlets, 28.8 kW (for Strand CD-80 2.4kw 12-packs) 1 Outlet, Hubbellock, 14.4 kW (for TTI 2.4kw 6-pack) 2 Outlets, Twistlock, 7.2 kW (for LMI 1.2kw 6-packs) 6 Dimmers, 1.2kW, 1 3-pin Twistlock outlet each (#37-42, #38 bad) 6 Dimmers, 1.2kW, 1 3-pin Twistlock outlet each (#31-36) 6 Dimmers, 2.4kW, 2 3-pin Twistlock outlets each (#25-30) 2 Dimmers, 2.4kW, 1 3-pin stage outlet each (#12, #24) 2 Hot patch stage outlets (#12, #24; share breakers with dimmers) 22 Dimmers, 2.4kW, 2 3-pin stage outlets each (all others) 22 Adapters, 3-pin stage female to 3-pin Twistlock male 72 Circuits, 20A 3-pin stage 1 Control board, 48 channel Strand MX 1 AMX-192 demultiplexer, 36 channel 1 Mirror ball with motor All instruments with C-clamp and 3-pin stage connector except as noted. 16 Scoop 14" 500 watt (Mogul screw PS lamp) 1 Strip 4 foot, 6 lamp, 3 circuit, 150 watt (Twistlock 3-pin plug) 15 Fresnel 6" 500 watt (BTL lamp) 4 ERS 3.5x10 axial 500 watt (EHD lamp, 20A Edison plug, 1 bad) 2 ERS 4.5x6 axial 750 watt (EHG lamp) 5 ERS 6x9 axial 500 watt (EHD lamp, crappy, greenish, 1 bad) 16 ERS 6x9 axial (14 @ EHG 750w, 2 @ FEL 1000w) 8 ERS 6x12 axial (5 @ EHG 750w, 3 @ FEL 1000w) 2 Followspot 1500 watt (DTA/DTJ lamp, Edison plug) 33 7.5" gel frame (this is inadequate) 16 16" gel frame 2 6" tophat with 7.5" frame 1 6" half hat with 7.5" frame 42 Safety wire (this is inadequate, should have 24 more) 4 Sidearm 12"-24" (but only 3 tees) Cable, 3-pin 20A stage 13 6' cable Red 13 10' cable Blue 2 15' cable Red/blue (one is two-pin) 3 25' cable Yellow 20 50'-60' cable Orange (or yellow plug) 6 Clunky stage twofer 3 3-pin Twistlock twofer 4 Cable 3-pin Twistlock 6' 1 Cable 3-pin Twistlock 12' 1 Cable Edison 50' 3 Adapter Edison female to stage male, 2@18' 2 Adapter Stage female to Edison male, 1@15' 3 Adapter Stage female to 20A Edison male 3 Adapter 3-pin Twistlock female to Edison male, 1@5' 1 Adapter 3-pin Twistlock female to stage male, 20' Many Connectors (stage, Twistlock 2-pin and 3-pin, Edison) -#-  1,, Summary-line: 26-Apr Andrew Crowther #Re: Cinematic G&S Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23066; Sun, 26 Apr 98 17:30:31 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04914; Sun, 26 Apr 98 17:30:31 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA12155; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980426221418.4e7f4650@pop.brad.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Cinematic G&S Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Cinematic G&S Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) At 03:14 PM 4/26/98 -0400, Arthur Robinson wrote: >I >suspect also that any adaptation would "open up" G&S and wreck it. I agree. Chesterton's essay on Gilbert and Sullivan which appeared in _The Eighteen-Eighties_ makes the excellent point that one of the main points of Gilbert's art was to show all the events of the operas happening in a restricted space. There is a limited range of characters, a limited space, a limited span of time: and these limits emphasise the absurdity. GKC contrasts Gilbert's method with the free-and-easy methods of musical comedy into which all manner of elements could be thrown. Talking of _Pinafore_ he says: "It is amusing to think what vistas of varied scenery a modern producer of Revue or Pantomime would see in such a story; what grand receptions at Sir Joseph and Lady Porter's town house; what riotous scenes in taverns to celebrate the adventures of Jack Ashore. But in the strict simplicity and concentration of the Gilbertian theme, Jack is never Ashore." And that's exactly the point. It's horribly easy to imagine how an "opening out" of the opera for the screen would involve inventing exactly that kind of scene. If a good film is to be made of a G&S opera, then we need at least to bear in mind this kind of restriction, which is essential to the effect. But it does occur to me that _The Sorcerer_ could be opened out a little, without ruining the art. In that case we do at least have Gilbert's original short story, with a much greater variety of scenes in it. Alexis and Aline might go up to London to visit Wells's shop, for instance, as they do in the story (though everyone has different names in the story). The thing is to make sure that no scene breaks the internal logic of the world Gilbert creates - not an easy task. There's another problem, too. Film is a naturalistic medium, and singing on screen is (in my experience) much less easy to take than on the stage. Comden and Green solved this brilliantly in _Singin' in the Rain_: about the first half-dozen songs were introduced naturalistically, as being sung by vaudeville acts or by dancing girls, and they so gradually accustomed us to the idea of singing that we were prepared to accept it when the naturalistic convention was finally broken and a character moved from speech to song without any such prop. I have absolutely no idea how to apply this example to the G&S operas. Andrew Crowther 82 the Avenue, A.J.Crowther@bradford.ac.uk Clayton, Bradford, (01274) 882143 West Yorkshire BD14 6RT. Great Britain. Visit Babliophile, my W.S. Gilbert page, at: http://www.student.brad.ac.uk/ajcrowth/babphile.htm "...what is hailed as a new style or a new school in literature often consists of doing as a novelty what a Victorian did long ago as a joke." - G.K. Chesterton, "On Phases of Eccentricity", in _All I Survey_ (1933)  1,, Summary-line: 1-May Chris Webster #CD issue of the HMV's 1921 acoustic Patience Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00806; Fri, 1 May 98 08:12:49 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28540; Fri, 1 May 98 08:12:49 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA13131; Fri, 1 May 1998 08:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 08:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805011205.NAA11803@andromeda.ndirect.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: CD issue of the HMV's 1921 acoustic Patience X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 08:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: CD issue of the HMV's 1921 acoustic Patience X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 Dear All, The first of my series of reissues of historical G & S recordings will soon be ready. As you will have read in the subject line, and in some of my earlier messages, it is HMV's 1921 acoustic recording of Patience. This recording was made under the supervision of Rupert D'Oyly Carte, who sent his stage manager J M Gordon to 'teach' the artistes the 'correct' way to perform G & S for the gramophone. JMG's name will probably be familiar to most G & S aficionados, but in case you are unfamiliar with it, he learnt his trade from WSG, and would very seldom allow any changes to WSG's style of production. The cast includes George Baker, Peter Dawson, Ernest Pike, Frederick Ranalow, Nellie Walker, Bessie Jones, Pamela Baselow, Edna Thornton and Violet Essex. The situation at the moment is that I am putting the finishing touches to the transfer itself and this should be complete in a few days. Once this is done there will be a few 'dead' weeks while sleeve notes, cover and label designs etc are being attended to. All transfer work has been carried out by myself and as a specialist in listening to old recordings I can honestly say that I am happy with what I have done and would be pleased with this transfer if I was purchasing it as the work of another independent transferor. Having said that I am sending a copy for an independent review for Savoynet to our very own G & S Discographer, Marc Shepherd. The sleeve notes are being written by another fellow Savoynetter, Michael Walters, who was responsible for a number of the Pearl LP issues of similar era recordings and who also wrote the notes for those issues, and I am sure that his notes for this issue are to be looked forward to. Each CD will be run off separately by myself and this will take approximately 45 minutes per CD, so rather than (hopefully) be inundated with requests for discs that are not prepared, I should like to make a start on running off the CDs during these next few weeks. The sales of this disc are not restricted to Savoynet members. I shall be advertising in various G & S and associated publications, but it would be very helpful if those interested in purchasing a copy could email me with details of how many you would like. You may wish to make a bulk purchase for members of your society and this is not a problem, but even if you only want one copy for yourself please let me know, as this will give me a rough idea of how many to run off for starters. Please do NOT consider this to be the placing of your order - this is only to give me an approximate idea of requirements for now. When I do start accepting orders the price of the disc will be 12.50 pounds (UK sterling) post free to wherever you are. Please note that at this time I can only accept payment in sterling, but once again Richard Freedman has agreed to assist with currency conversion for US dollars, so there are no problems here. You can send your US dollar cheques to Richard and he will send me the sterling amount (but not YET!) If you are in Australia and have difficulty raising the sterling, please let me know of your interest anyway, because if there are enough of you wanting to pay in Australian currency then it may still be feasible to sort a bank conversion as I believe a conversion charge is quite hefty for one small payment but it is the same charge for a larger payment and so the charge may be worth paying if the Australian orders are healthy enough. (Give me that again, Stanley??) Don't worry about writing now and then changing your mind later, this is only an indication and not an order. Please write privately, stating how many copies you are likely to purchase, and also what currency you will be ordering with. Will US netters who wish to use Richard for conversion please add a note saying this. You assistance will be very much appreciated. Regards Chris Webster "Sounds on CD"  1,, Summary-line: 2-May IHodgkin #Sullivan Genealogy Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11961; Sat, 2 May 98 00:11:17 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27077; Sat, 2 May 98 00:11:18 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA04331; Sat, 2 May 1998 00:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <7a3acf9c.354a9a40@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: IHodgkin@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: IHodgkin To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Sullivan Genealogy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: IHodgkin@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: IHodgkin To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Sullivan Genealogy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Chris Sullivan (formerly Webster) wrote: <> Indeed, it now is a large and diverse family. For anyone that is interested in checking, I have put together a fairly extensive family tree for the Sullivan family that I'd be willing to share, if you have a genealogy software program capable of reading a GEDCOM file. If so, respond to me privately at "IHodgkin@aol.com". --Irv (aka King Gama) "I love my fellow creatures - I do all the good I can- Yet ev'rybody says I'm such a disagreeable man! And I can't think why!" Performing "Princess Ida" Summer Reprise in Ellsworth on July 9-11th!  1,, Summary-line: 3-May Mike Storie #Cultivating an Orchestra Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23115; Sun, 3 May 98 16:44:18 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07942; Sun, 3 May 98 16:44:09 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA04805; Sun, 3 May 1998 16:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805032037.NAA25604@mail.nwlink.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: mstorie@nwlink.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Cultivating an Orchestra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: mstorie@nwlink.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Cultivating an Orchestra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: David Cookson has the answer: "Make the orchestra part of your society." We went from piano to an amateur orchestra in the early sixties. After about one season, we were picketed by the musician's union and the following season we used a professional orchestra. These "professionals" assumed that they could sight-read anything as simple as G&S and they sounded that way. A disaster. We have had an amateur orchestra ever since. At this point we have an amateur group of 26, many of whom have been with us for many years. Several have played the entire canon with us (at one show per year). As with everything else, you build quality slowly. Some musicians have more enthusiasm than skill and the balance is difficult to achieve. At this time, our orchestra members get a small honorarium. There is occasional grumbling from stage performers (usually new ones) since they get paid nothing. The answer is: 1. The pit musicians are expected to learn all the music on their own time. We don't spend time in orchestra rehearsals learning the music as we do with the singers. 2. Pit musicians provide their own instruments which cost multiple thousands of dollars. 3. They spend their summer months playing in a hole in the ground where the audience can't even see them. 4. They have to supply their own "costumes." The music schools are a good source of orchestral talent. There are also many talented musicians who played through college, possibly in the youth symphony, or community orchestras, but have chosen to earn their living doing something more reliable. Many of these people are looking for outlets and only need parking, babysitting or gas money. Our orchestra manager of many years, often hears of musicians by word of mouth. We are fortunate that we have a reliable group and don't have to use substitutes except in emergencies. Eight of our musicians went to Buxton with us in 1996 to augment the pit band there. I think the result was appreciated by many, both in our company and in the audience. It is certainly imperitive to include the orchestra members in all parties and other activities. Make them welcome in the green room. Reserve a parking place near the theater for the string bass and cello players. One of my favorite rehearsals each season, is when the orchestra and the cast rehearse together for the first time a week before we move in to the theater. They rehearse seperately before that. I like it because however good the piano is, it's not the same as travelling with a full band. Hearing that bassoon "chuckle" for the first time on "Three Little Maids" is always a kick. It is also fun because the band and the cast often spontaniously applaud one another. When the orchestra finishes the overture, the cast applaudes. When the soloists or the chorus finish with a flourish, the orchestra applauds. It's a great bonding thing. We (sort of) inadvertantly discovered an amazing way to increase orchestra morale. At the Theater where we perform, the orchestra pit has to be cut into the stage. Therefore there is a 12 by 32 foot hole in the front of the stage, right at the curtain line. This means several things, 1. The curtain has to be up during the overture, 2. The entire set and show have to be moved 12+ feet back from the audience causing sightline and acoustic problems, 3. There is a very dangerous deep black hole right where your cast is dancing without their glasses! To solve this, we tried an experiment last year (for Iolanthe) where we put the orchestra behind the set on a 4-foot tall platform. This had the following effects, 1. The curtain still had to be open during the overture, 2. The set and show could be moved right to the lip of the stage, which made the balcony seats much more desireable, 3. The hole was gone, 4. We had to solve some interesting problems so that the cast could see the conducter, but it worked very well. (Video monitors) The happy result was that the orchestra looked very elegant silhouetted against the dark blue (lighted) cyc. The overture was like attending a concert. When the action started, a simple change in lighting moved the emphasis fromt the orchestra performers to the acting/singing performers. The acoustics were excellent (a foam baffle built into part of the set adjusted some of the percussion sound) and the main thing was that the orchestra was a truly integral part of the show. Yes, there was some grumbling at first that they had to dress up, and they couldn't wiggle around during dialog, and they couldn't do little pranks. BUT during the curtain call, when the cast turned to honor the Music Director, you didn't just see his head bob up from a hole in the ground, you saw the entire orchestra stand and take a bow to a standing ovation. Talk about a morale booster! Now, of course, all 26 of them want to go to Buxton. Mike Storie  1,, Summary-line: 3-May Arthur Robinson #Where to find Gilbert's plays (long) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11181; Sun, 3 May 98 22:31:38 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02440; Sun, 3 May 98 22:31:38 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA10473; Sun, 3 May 1998 22:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: awrobins@indiana.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Where to find Gilbert's plays (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: awrobins@indiana.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Where to find Gilbert's plays (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum A few recent postings, especially the request concerning where to find Gilbert's ROSENCRANTZ AND GUILDENSTERN, have led me to return to a project I once started: where to find Gilbert's non-Sullivan plays and libretti. Many, of course, are now in the G&S Archive (list below), but I thought I'd list other sources for where to find them, in anthologies etc. I welcome additions and corrections. I. Collections of Gilbert's plays The best source is the four-volume ORIGINAL PLAYS series, though this is hard to find in the States. This series contains most of Gilbert's plays that have been published (but not all, e.g., PRINCESS TOTO, THE HAPPY LAND, TOPSYTURVEYDOM, A COLOSSAL IDEA). PLAYS BY W.S. GILBERT, edited by George Rowell, seems to be in most university libraries. It contians ROSENCRANTZ AND GUILDENSTERN, ENGAGED, PRINCESS TOTO, SWEETHEARTS, and THE PALACE OF TRUTH. PLAYS AND POEMS, by Gilbert (preface by Deems Taylor), contains three plays in addition to the 14 with Sullivan: THE PALACE OF TRUTH, THE MOUNTEBANKS, and HIS EXCELLENCY. Jane Stedman's GILBERT BEFORE SULLIVAN contains (as I recall) six musical plays Gilbert wrote for German Reed: NO CARDS, EYES AND NO EYES, AGES AGO, OUR ISLAND HOME, A SENSATION NOVEL, and HAPPY ARCADIA. NEW AND ORIGINAL EXTRAVAGANZAS, edited by Isaac Goldberg and published in 1931, is extremely hard to find, but contains the text of five of Gilbert's opera burlesques: DULCAMARA, LA VIVANDIERE, THE MERRY ZINGARA, ROBERT THE DEVIL, and THE PRETTY DRUIDESS. The second volume of EIGHT COMIC OPERAS by Gilbert contains HASTE TO THE WEDDING, THE MOUNTEBANKS, and HIS EXCELLENCY in addition to five of Gilbert's operas with Sullivan. A few of Gilbert's other plays have been printed individually, some by Samuel French or in Lacy's Acting Editions; others seem to be privately printed, e.g., A COLOSSAL IDEA (published by Townley Searle as I recall), THE REALM OF JOY, and UNCLE BABY (I believe the last two were edited by Terence Rees, and may still be available from C.D. Paramor; anyone who's interested should e-mail me privately for his address). These should be listed in up-to-date Gilbert bibliographies, so I won't try to be complete. Readex Microprint has made many of Gilbert's plays available in microopaque form, including unpublished scripts such as GREAT EXPECTATIONS and COMMITTED FOR TRIAL; also THE NE'ER-Do-WEEL, which I believe Gilbert had privately printed. Some university libraries have this set (I found them in the Indiana University library). II. ANTHOLOGIES INCLUDING PLAYS BY GILBERT The following anthologies of plays include non-Sullivan plays by Gilbert. This list is almost certainly incomplete, and I'd welcome additions. (A high school classmate of mine was assigned to read ENGAGED in a textbook when she was at McGill University ca. 1975; I've often been curious what edition this would have been.) DAN'L DRUCE: in THE GOLDEN AGE OF MELODRAMA: TWELVE 19th CENTURY MELODRAMAS, ed. Michael Kilgarriff. London: Wolfe, 1970. (pp. 396-430) [Warning: this may be an abridged version.] ENGAGED: in BRITISH PLAYS OF THE NINETEENTH CENTURY, ed. J.O. Bailey. New York: Odyssey Press, 1966 (pp. 405-430). Also in THE MAGISTRATE AND OTHER NINETEENTH-CENTURY PLAYS, ed. Michael R. Booth. London: Oxford University Press, 1974. (pp. 241-296) ROSENCRANTZ AND GUILDENSTERN: in NINETEENTH CENTURY SHAKESPEARE BURLESQUES, ed. Stanley Wells. London: Diploma Press, 1977. (vol. 4, pp. 253-262) SWEETHEARTS: in REPRESENTATIVE MODERN PLAYS--BRITISH AND AMERICAN, FROM ROBERTSON TO O'NEILL, ed. Richard A. Cordell. New York: Nelson, 1937, c1929. (pp. 53-67) [How many anthologies contain plays by both Gilbert and Eugene O'Neill?] Gilbert's play A MEDICAL MAN is included in DRAWING-ROOM PLAYS AND PARLOUR PANTOMIMES, ed. Clement Scott, London: Rivers, 1870, pp. 16-36. I believe Gilbert wrote it for this anthology? Anyway, it was published before it was performed, according to the G&S Archive. I have a vague recollection of having seen TOM COBB and/or CHARITY in an anthology once, but can't locate it; I may be hallucinating. As I say, I welcome additions to this bibliography-in-progress. (I'm also interested in hearing about modern anthologies that contain Gilbert's non-theater works--aside from his BAB BALLADS, which are anthologised everywhere. Andrew Crowther has mentioned that VICTORIAN LOVE STORIES, published by Oxford University Press in 1996, contains Gilbert's story "The Elixir of Love." I've seen "The Poisoned Postage Stamp" published in anthologies-- and as I recall also in THE LOST STORIES OF W.S. GILBERT--as by Gilbert, but I gather it isn't by him. (Too bad--it's one of my favorite murder methods. Fictional, I mean.) III. GILBERT PLAYS IN THE GILBERT AND SULLIVAN ARCHIVE Here's a list of Gilbert's plays currently available in the Gilbert & Sullivan Archive on the Web, with thanks to James Farron, Andrew Crowther, Ian Bond, and the others responsible for these once hard-to-find plays being so readily available now. Again, please notify me of any errors. AGES AGO (1869) CREATURES OF IMPULSE (1871) ENGAGED (1877) FALLEN FAIRIES (1909) FOGGERTY'S FAIRY (1881) THE HAPPY LAND (1873) HASTE TO THE WEDDING (1892) NO CARDS (1869) THE PRINCESS (1870) PRINCESS TOTO (1876) ROSENCRANTZ AND GUILDENSTERN (1891) TOM COBB (1875) TOPSYTURVEYDOM (1874) Also the following Sullivan non-Gilbert operas: THE BEAUTY STONE, THE CHIEFTAIN, THE CONTRABANDISTA, COX AND BOX, THE EMERALD ISLE, HADDON HALL, THE ROSE OF PERSIA, and THE ZOO. Does anyone know of (print) anthologies that contain any of these? I have a vague recollection of having seen THE CHIEFTAIN in an anthology in a rare book library once, with G&S and other comic operas, but maybe it was just a collection of Chappell libretti that someone had bound together. Many thanks for any help anyone can give on this! Arthur  1,, Summary-line: 4-May Mary Finn #Re: Rosencrantz... Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23741; Mon, 4 May 98 09:34:36 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18034; Mon, 4 May 98 09:34:37 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA17921; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <98May4.092101edt.13842-2@gateway.intersys.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: finn@intersys.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mary Finn To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Rosencrantz... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: <98May1.095102edt.13866-1@gateway.intersys.com> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: finn@intersys.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mary Finn To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Rosencrantz... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: <98May1.095102edt.13866-1@gateway.intersys.com> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) At 09:53 AM 5/1/98 -0400, Arthur Robinson wrote: > >NINETEENTH CENTURY SHAKESPEARE BURLESQUES, ed. by George Wells, has the >text of Gilbert's ROSENCRANTZ & GUILDENSTERN in volume 5. (I had never >heard of this until Mary Finn's posting about it the other day.) Again, >I'd expect it to be in most univeristy libraries. A slight correction: R&G is found in volume 4 of NINETEENTH CENTURY BURLESQUES. which was edited by Dr. Stanley Wells. There is an interesting footnote, saying that when R&G first appeared (in PUNCH, I believe) at the the end, Hamlet was sent off, not to "Engle-land" but to the "Lyceum" (sp?) because they would appreciate him there. I took this to be a crack about a contemporary production of "Hamlet" in a London theatre. Gilbert slightly revised R&G for production later, giving it the more familiar ending. I noticed one other slight difference. When I played Gerturde in R&G (a'many years ago) a scrap of dialog in the third scene went approximately thus: GERTRUDE: Oh, do not kill him, for he is mine only son! CLAUDIUS: Both shall die together! This never made a whole lot of sense to me, because why would Claudius suddenly threaten Gerturde? In NINETEETH CENTURY BURLESQUES, this bit of dialog goes something like this: GERTRUDE: Oh, do not kill him, for he is thine only son! CLAUDIUS: No, I had two! (company surprised and shocked) My son, and my play. Both shall die together! Much more sensible. True, it makes Hamlet Claudius' son, rather than his nephew, but in Gilbert's parody the whole usurping the throne business never comes up, so their relationship really doesn't matter matter matter. ********************************************************** Mary A. Finn phone: 617-225-3052 Senior Marketing Writer fax: 617-494-1631 InterSystems Corp. email: finn@intersys.com **********************************************************  1, answered,, Summary-line: 4-May Jim Farron #Re: Script for Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26793; Mon, 4 May 98 15:36:07 EDT Received: from mail.netsus.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05567; Mon, 4 May 98 15:35:57 EDT Received: (qmail 3288 invoked from network); 4 May 1998 19:58:36 -0000 Received: from 178-216.vais.net (HELO default) (207.98.178.216) by mail.netsus.com with SMTP; 4 May 1998 19:58:36 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980504152005.007fbd00@mail.vais.net> X-Sender: jmfarron@mail.vais.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 15:31:40 -0400 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" From: Jim Farron Subject: Re: Script for Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *** EOOH *** X-Sender: jmfarron@mail.vais.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 15:31:40 -0400 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" From: Jim Farron Subject: Re: Script for Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No problem with corrections. Just drop me a note and I can usually make them pretty rapidly. I would love to get your Utopia Act II vocal score. PDF's will be fine, or you can send me the Postscript files and I'll make the PDF's from them. I would also like the midi files that I assume that you can make from the same program. Larry sent me his, even though he doesn't have the ability to listen to midis, and over a period of time I have edited several of them for posting in the Archive. -- Jim At 01:16 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>It is now posted in the G&S Archive. Thank you very much. If you ever >>have another one you'd like to contribute, just let me know. > >You're welcome. I've been scared to submit it for a while, until I >was confident that there were no transcription errors. What is your >poicy on updates if an error is found after it's been posted? > >I've been sitting on Act II of Utopia (vocal score, similar to Larry >Byler's Act I) for a few years, because I haven't incorporated all the >corrections I received after testing it in performance. That's a >little bigger than just a playscript, since the pdf is quite a few >hundred k (the ps files are a few megabytes). Would you prefer the >pdf, or the individual ps files that make up the pdf? This will take >a while to get everything together, so don't expect it anytime soon. > >-Dave Jedlinsky >opus@mit.edu > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Farron, Springfield, VA Gilbert and Sullivan Archive == http://diamond.idbsu.edu/GaS/GaS.html U. S. Office of Personnel Management == http://www.opm.gov Washington Area Butterfly Club = http://www.vais.net/butterfly -----------------------------------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 4-May Jim Farron #Re: Vocal score for Utopia (act II) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26298; Mon, 4 May 98 18:25:16 EDT Received: from mail.netsus.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22283; Mon, 4 May 98 18:25:16 EDT Received: (qmail 9685 invoked from network); 4 May 1998 22:47:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO default) (207.98.178.223) by mail.netsus.com with SMTP; 4 May 1998 22:47:56 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980504180950.007eb970@mail.vais.net> X-Sender: jmfarron@mail.vais.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 18:20:56 -0400 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" From: Jim Farron Subject: Re: Vocal score for Utopia (act II) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *** EOOH *** X-Sender: jmfarron@mail.vais.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 18:20:56 -0400 To: "David C. Jedlinsky" From: Jim Farron Subject: Re: Vocal score for Utopia (act II) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No problem. In at least some of the songs, I can handle repeats by editing the midi file. And any song without repeats is usable with fairly limited editing. At 05:08 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Jim, > >I'm not sure if my program will generate usable MIDI files. I don't >think it handles repeats properly, so you get one verse, and all the >endings, as if one were to play it start to finish, ignoring the >repeats. > >-Dave Jedlinsky >opus@mit.edu > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Farron, Springfield, VA Gilbert and Sullivan Archive == http://diamond.idbsu.edu/GaS/GaS.html U. S. Office of Personnel Management == http://www.opm.gov Washington Area Butterfly Club = http://www.vais.net/butterfly -----------------------------------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 4-May Andrew.J.Whittaker #Re: Re : Failure of U. S. Festivals Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15858; Mon, 4 May 98 20:00:55 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11214; Mon, 4 May 98 20:00:56 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA29561; Mon, 4 May 1998 20:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <354E5413.1072@netcomuk.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: Oldhill@netcomuk.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Andrew.J.Whittaker" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Re : Failure of U. S. Festivals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320UK (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Oldhill@netcomuk.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Andrew.J.Whittaker" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Re : Failure of U. S. Festivals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320UK (Win95; I) G & S Unlimited is the professional Company which performs at Grims Dyke every month. The performances can only take place because we have professional principals and musicians but an amateur chorus. All the principals are Ex D'Oyly Carte New or Old and we try to incorporate the routines that are so well known to millions that came to see the D'Oyly Carte. I am sure the same formula could be made to work in the USA and I would be happy to work with any Societies to arrange a number of performances or even a coordinated tour with several Societies. I know I could probably get together a good cast including Ex D'Oyly Carte people who I know do not work with Buxton. If anybody is interested lets talk and see if we can sort something out. Andrew Whittaker G & S Unlimited  1,, Summary-line: 5-May Ernie Fosse #Compiled Savoynet Census info Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12134; Tue, 5 May 98 15:26:27 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13967; Tue, 5 May 98 15:26:15 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA18294; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <25983782061AD111B0800000F86310FE07DC85ED@red-msg-42.dns.microsoft.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: erniefo@MICROSOFT.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ernie Fosse To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Compiled Savoynet Census info X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: erniefo@MICROSOFT.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ernie Fosse To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Compiled Savoynet Census info X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) SAVOYNET STATS: > Of 123 respondents (thus far) to Paul McShane's poll: > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Gender: F = 36, M = 87 > > Marital Status: Married = 64 > Single = 41 > Divorced = 11 > Widow(ed) = 04 > No Response = 03 > > State/Prov (*): Massachusetts = 10 > California = 09 > Pennsylvania = 08 > Florida = 07 > New Jersey = 07 > Connecticut = 05 > Illinois = 05 > Lancashire = 05 > New York = 05 > Maine = 04 > Ontario = 04 > New South Wales = 03 > Virginia = 03 > Washington = 03 > Georgia = 02 > Indiana = 02 > Michigan = 02 > North Island = 02 > North Carolina = 02 > Oregon = 02 > Quebec = 02 > South Glamorgan = 02 > Texas = 02 > All other respondents = 01 each > > Savoynet: From Home = 69 > From Work = 29 > Both = 25 > > Duplicate Birthday (July 12th): = 02 > > Occupation: Technology (IT) = 22 > Retired = 17 > Education = 12 > Miscellaneous = 08 > Music = 08 > Student = 08 > Librarian/Writer = 07 > Administration = 06 > Medicine = 05 > Sciences = 05 > Unemployed = 05 > Audio-Visual = 04 > Consultant = 03 > Management = 03 > Theatre = 03 > Judiciary = 03 > Trade = 02 > Finance = 01 > Self Employed = 01 > > Age Groups: 10 - 19 = 02 > 20 - 29 = 18 > 30 - 39 = 19 > 40 - 49 = 34 > 50 - 59 = 29 > 60 - 69 = 09 > 70 - 79 = 06 > 80 - 89 = 02 > There it is... ErnieFo@Microsoft.Com  1,, Summary-line: 6-May NEIL SMITH #G&S FESTIVAL '98/NODA CENTENARY 1999 Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12517; Wed, 6 May 98 04:05:10 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11201; Wed, 6 May 98 04:04:59 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA29907; Wed, 6 May 1998 04:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980504091514.00686548@mail.u-net.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: smith@gsfest.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: NEIL SMITH To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: G&S FESTIVAL '98/NODA CENTENARY 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id EAA29907 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: smith@gsfest.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: NEIL SMITH To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: G&S FESTIVAL '98/NODA CENTENARY 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id EAA29907 Dear Savoynetters For at least 12 months I have stuck rigidly to a policy of "not being drawn" into debates, comments or even misconceptions on the Savoynet and = I don't intend to be drawn into the current re-emerging debate of a festiva= l in the United States. However, I will be in Philadelphia this week - and= I might even go to Pittsburgh! The one thing I particularly did want to comment on was Mark Shepherd's statement relating to the professional shows at this year's festival. Peter Mulloy played Pish Tush in the Gilbert & Sullivan Opera Company's Mikado last year and he is a board member of the Carl Rosa Opera Company, which this year celebrates 125 years in the United Kingdom. Many members of the cast of "The Mikado" expressed a hope that the show would not simp= ly "die", but that there may be an opportunity of coming back together with = a professional chorus for additional presentations. The "Pirates of Penzance" production from Forum, Billingham - runners up two years ago wa= s directed by Peter Mulloy. It began as a professional show.=20 Peter and I met towards the end of '97 to discuss how we could ensure tha= t the British professionals, who had enjoyed themselves so much in Berkeley= , Philadelphia and Buxton, could work together again in 1998. =20 After some very long and detailed negotiations, we agreed that we would restage the Mikado and Pirates of Penzance in the "traditional" manner wi= th a fully professional chorus at this year's festival. Peter ideally wante= d us to buy the costumes and the sets. We could not afford them. So Peter= , under the name of Carl Rosa booked Mikado and Pirates for a pre Buxton we= ek at a theatre in the north east of England. Derek Collins will redirect T= he Mikado and he, Peter Mulloy, will direct Pirates of Penzance. =20 I also wanted to have a "traditional" Iolanthe - primarily because I was very disappointed with the new D'oyly Carte Iolanthe - their last production. Because at the time there was a possibility that the new D'Oyly Carte would restage Iolanthe this autumn, Peter did not feel it appropriate to include that in the external performances. The productions of The Mikado and Pirates of Penzance are a co-operation between ourselves and The Carl Rosa Opera Company. We are paying significantly towards the costs of rehearsing and staging the shows. We have no involvement in their pre Buxton run in Darlington, but we are totally responsible for the three shows in Buxton. Contrary to Mark's assumption - Iolanthe will also have a fully professional chorus. It wil= l be the first time that Britain has had three professional productions of Gilbert & Sullivan in one week since the original D'Oyly Carte closed in 1982. =20 My understanding is that Pirates and Mikado has perhaps another one or tw= o bookings after Buxton. I have indicated that I will have discussions wit= h a number of people to see if a longer tour is possible. I do hope that this clarifies any confusion. Oh! And by the way=85=85=85=85..Having started, let me also make referenc= e to another major misconception two or three weeks ago, regarding the Centena= ry Celebrations of Amateur Theatre in Britain. We are very proud to have be= en appointed to organise these centenary celebrations that will take place i= n London over the May Day weekend (May 1-3 1999). The suggestion was made that you had to pay =A350 to appear for 4 minutes= in the Royal Albert Hall. This of course was totally incorrect. Members of NODA - the British National Operatic & Dramatic Association, m= ay purchase a ticket valued at =A370.00, which will entitle them to attend t= wo major concerts on consecutive evenings in the Royal Albert Hall; they wi= ll join the "Show Boat Parade" that will sail down the River Thames for an opening ceremony along side the Tower of London - with 200 Yeomen of the Guard participating - and they will also participate in a "Music Man Parade" in Hyde Park. The =A370 ticket also entitles them to workshop sessions and free entry to a major theatrical exhibition. If any of these people actually perform in Festival, the cost of their ticket reduces from =A370 to =A350. We believe there may well be 2000 Am= ateurs "Performing" over the weekend. Similarly, it was stated that people had to audition within days. Anothe= r misconception. There will be auditions in Buxton during this year's festival and in addition, each of the NODA Regions across Britain will conduct their own auditions for a "Night of 1000 Voices" in the Albert Hall. These auditions are likely to be in the autumn. =20 If any of you are interested in further details, please ask Laraine in my office to add you to the Database. And finally=85=85=85..I am very conscious that our "Web Site" has been se= verely neglected. It has not been a priority. That is now being remedied and I hope a new site will be live by the end of the month. =20 Ian G. Smith  1,, Summary-line: 6-May Bruce I. Miller #Sullivan cylinder news Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01102; Wed, 6 May 98 18:41:18 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29223; Wed, 6 May 98 18:41:19 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA15615; Wed, 6 May 1998 18:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: bmiller@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Sullivan cylinder news Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: bmiller@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Sullivan cylinder news Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Many of our number are aware of the early wax cylinder which Arthur Sullivan recorded for the Edison representative in England on October 5, 1888 (or only two days following the premiere of Yeomen). The familiar version which has circulated over the years is only a truncated, edited one. About half of his remarks, which were of a jesting nature (referring to the previous speech by another guest) were suppressed. (The full text is quoted below.) This in itself is not news; it was reported in the Summer, 1996 "Victrola and 78 Journal" and later in the magazine of the Sir Arthur Sullivan Society. What is news is that during a paper delivered before the ARSC (Association of Recorded Sound Collections) Conference in Nashville, Tennessee in Spring 1997, a number of the cylinders made that evening were reproduced. Tapes from this lecture have been made available for sale to the public. I have just obtained a copy and can say that while the conditions for recording were not ideal - cylinders are reproduced live during the talk and the recording is not a direct dub from the source - the cylinder reproduction is acceptably clear and in some instances, the quality is extraordinary. Unfortunately, the familiar part of the Sullivan cylinder seems more degraded than the unfamiliar section, perhaps the result of damage during the first transcriptions in the 1950's. The other speeches and toasts are also reproduced, including a toast and other complimentary remarks about Sullivan and his music. The tape (duration, 30 minutes) can be ordered by writing to the following: ARSC Conference Tapes c/o Chicago Symphony Archives 220 South Michigan Avenue Chicago, IL 60604 The item should be specified as follows: 97-15 Edison's Wax Cylinder Debut: The Adventures of George Gouraud in 1888. Jerry Fabris (Edison National Historic Site). The order form specifies: "Please indicate the number and session title of the tapes you wish to order. All tapes are priced at $10.00. For orders from the US over 20 dollars add 5% to total for shipping and handling. For all foreign orders, add 10% to order total for shipping and handling. Please make check or money order payable in U.S. dollars to: CHICAGO SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA. Sorry, no credit card orders will be accepted. ******************************************************* Here is the full text of Sullivan's statement: Dear Mr. Edison, If my friend, Edmund Yates, has been a little incoherent, it is in consequence of the excellent dinner and good wines he has drunk; therefore I beg you will excuse him. He has his lucid intervals. For myself I can only say that I am astonished and somewhat terririfed at the results of this evening's experiments: astonished at the wonderful power [not "form" - it's clearly "power" in this transcription] you have developed, and terrified at the thought that so much hideous and bad music may be put on record for ever! But all the same, I think it is the most wonderful thing that I have ever experienced, and I congratulate you with all my heart on this wonderful discovery. Arthur Sullivan. **************************************** Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Summary-line: 6-May Richard N. Freedman #Pounds for dollars Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08827; Wed, 6 May 98 22:05:02 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08969; Wed, 6 May 98 22:05:04 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA19235; Wed, 6 May 1998 22:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <355114D2.7895@null.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: rnf@null.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Richard N. Freedman" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Pounds for dollars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id WAA19235 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: rnf@null.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Richard N. Freedman" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Pounds for dollars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id WAA19235 For those who are considering ordering Chris Webster's historical CD=20 reissues: today I purchased travelers cheques in sterling at the local=20 office of the AAA -- that's how I replenish my account. Their rate was=20 1.686830, or $337.37 for =A3200. I must pay $1 to mail the eventual cheq= ue=20 to Chris, and $1 now to mail in my deposit. (Or likely more; they were=20 out of the =A350 cheques I usually buy. I had to use twenties, and I thin= k=20 ten twenties will require extra postage.) So my cost for =A3200 comes to=20 about $340, or an effective exchange rate of 1.7. So those wishing to=20 pay Chris =A312.50 may send me $21.25, to Richard N. Freedman 89-7 Staniford Street Auburndale, MA 02166-1128 BUT WAIT! Don't send me anything until Chris says he is ready to take=20 orders. --=20 Richard N. Freedman (http://www.wp.com/rnf) rnf@null.net Integrity is like oxygen. The higher you go the less there is of it.  1,, Summary-line: 13-May Sarah Mankowski #Re: Dressing Room Etiquette Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08222; Wed, 13 May 98 09:02:26 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11178; Wed, 13 May 98 09:02:14 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA16568; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <355996C4.D846D628@digital.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: sarahm@digital.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sarah Mankowski To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Dressing Room Etiquette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: sarahm@digital.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sarah Mankowski To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Dressing Room Etiquette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Sunday afternoon I felt like Wendy from Peter Pan, as I was suddenly thrown into mending duty in the boys dressing room, at my son's musical "Tumbleweeds". I'd just stepped in to reinforce a thread in his costume, and suddenly everybody needed something mended. These were 14 and 15 year olds, for the most part. The best part was the overheard conversation. I learned all the details of the plan to toss a smoke bomb into the girls' dressing room, after the show. Then this priceless exchange. The first kid observed that a particular boy was late. The second kid said, "Maybe church ran late. You know him, he'd never miss church." First kid: "Yeah. Who do you want mad at you, God or the director? . . . ah, wait a minute, I think he should've skipped church today." Sarah  1,, Summary-line: 14-May CENYDD PHILLIPS #Re: Mics Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23219; Thu, 14 May 98 06:58:55 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11590; Thu, 14 May 98 06:58:37 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA04325; Thu, 14 May 1998 06:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 06:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <307F423851@CC3.SWAN.AC.UK> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: C.T.Phillips@swansea.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CENYDD PHILLIPS To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Mics X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 06:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: C.T.Phillips@swansea.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CENYDD PHILLIPS To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Mics X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum > At 2:10 PM -0400 13/5/98, Cheryl Campbell wrote: > >What about a free standing mike system, sort of like what you would have for > >recording (ie. hide mikes in plants etc)., would that work? I have > >absolutely no idea about this sort of thing, so I'm just throwing it out as > >an idea. > > We miked our last two productions, and both times used floor mikes along > the foot of the stage (right at floor level, camouflaged -- not on stands), > as well as a couple of hanging mikes further upstage. > > It was good enough to make the sound a little clearer for the > septugenarians and octogenarians who make up a far-too-substantial part of > our audience, without being intrusive (the mikes, not the olden agers... > well, okay, they're not all THAT intrusive either) > Shaun G. Lynch > President, Montreal West Operatic Society The main problem with floor mics is that that is what they tend to pick up most of the time. Choruses can be drowned out by the thump of feet on stage as they dance, amplified 20 times. To get any sort of coverage a number of mics are needed, so that you don't lose a voice as its owner steps to the side, and even then it doesn't help if they step back. Singers should be sending the sound out towards an audience, so to get a decent reproduction of the sound the mic needs to be somewhere between the two so therefore ' in sight', rather than way above or below. I don't like mic-ing shows in general, because it is so awkward and usually not needed, but if you need to for recording I personally would find it less distracting to see a couple of very small thin mics about 2 or 3 feet up from the stage floor, think 'Oh, they're recording this' and then dismiss them from my mind than to be distracted by large potted plants for the whole show!!! Maybe that's just me being used to seeing and ignoring mics, and others would be more disturbed, I don't know, but it is very difficult to hide them without people thinking 'there's a plant on stage to hide a mic', or 'why has that plant got wires coming out of it'! Hopefully however you do it people will be sufficiently enthralled by the show itself so will not take much notice! cheers Cenydd  1,, Summary-line: 14-May Kelvin Kean #Vocal scores Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07944; Thu, 14 May 98 10:38:51 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24042; Thu, 14 May 98 10:38:20 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA07251; Thu, 14 May 1998 10:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805141426.JAA29748@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: kkean@ix.netcom.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kelvin Kean To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Vocal scores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: kkean@ix.netcom.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kelvin Kean To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Vocal scores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The bindings that publishers of G & S scores use puzzle me. Binding adhesives and perfect (or adhesive) bindings (the technical term for the kind of binding one finds in such books) that have been used in the last 20 years are not rigid and the spines do not have to be "broken" as PMeason descirbed. But for some reason the printers hired by the publisher of the Schirmer scores, with which I'm familiar here in the colonies, the Kalmus scores, and apparently those available in the mother country don't want to use or are ignorant of modern perfect bindings. Anyone who uses MS Word and has a copy of the User's Guide will find an example of a binding made with flexible glue that remains flexible. I have no difficulty keeping that book flat on my desk or on a reading stand. I also have other manuals here that feature what is called in the trade as a "lay flat" binding. The paper cover is not glued to the spine but instead is glued to end papers only and the actual pages are glued together with a synthetic flexible adhesive. Having said that and knowing the relative costs of two different bindings, I would think the publishers would be capable of putting out two editions, one that is perfect bound using a flexible adhesive for use by singers and anyone who wants the entire score, even when only one system fits on a page, and for use by accompanists that would be bound mechanically, meaning the use of one several types of wire or plastic comb bindings. I spent many years in the text book business here in the US and the use of the two kinds of bindings was quite common, one for students and one for teachers. Creating a "filet of score" could be too expensive to undertake, since it would require a completely different set of plates, but interleaving such material with the system-per-page material wouldn't add noticeably to the printing cost. Then I have no idea what size of printings the publishers of G & S use. I suspect most are still living technically back about 1955 which would make the production of music scores phenomenally expensive (mostly the typesetting and proofing costs) by today's standards. Kelvin Kean G & S Society of Chester County (Pennsylvania US) Elverson, Pennsylvania  1,, Summary-line: 18-May Wilfredo Sanchez #Re: Rhapsody DR2 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22181; Mon, 18 May 98 23:06:29 EDT Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20321; Mon, 18 May 98 23:06:12 EDT Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA35440; Mon, 18 May 1998 20:02:00 -0700 Received: from scv3.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.121]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 18 May 1998 20:01:54 -0700 Received: from [17.202.43.214] (elwood.apple.com [17.202.43.214]) by scv3.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA11860; Mon, 18 May 1998 20:01:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199805190301.UAA11860@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: Rhapsody DR2 Date: Mon, 18 May 98 20:01:17 -0700 X-Sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: "Brad Thompson" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" *** EOOH *** Subject: Re: Rhapsody DR2 Date: Mon, 18 May 98 20:01:17 -0700 X-Sender: wsanchez@mail.apple.com X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Wilfredo Sanchez To: "Brad Thompson" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >SIPB now has a copy of Rhapsody DR2. I will be installing it on the >Mac sometime soon. I have a Krb5 login hook for Rhapsody, if you're interested, which gets you tickets on login. I can send source, of course. A locker might be handy for that sort of thing, but I'm just a prospective member, and don't know much about such things. I can leave it in my home directory, though, if someone wants it. I also have a (very buggy at the moment) Zephyr app, which is a great example of taking BSD code and putting a pretty face on it without reimplementing any of the back-end (runs zwgc in a thread), and was a popular demo at WWDC last week. And I have a list of other things I'm working on, or thinking about, which could easily be hacked on by MIT folk, if people care; I'm usually logged in (tritan). -Fred --- Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174 Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group 2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23222; Wed, 20 May 98 20:39:46 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00329; Wed, 20 May 98 20:39:52 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA29316; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35636F3D.5ECB@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: G&S book question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: G&S book question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) Maureen Roult wrote: > > I just bought a copy of Ian Bradley's "Annotated Gilbert & Sullivan." > Has this book been discussed on the 'Net before, and has the discussion > been archived? If so, please e-mail me directions on finding the > discussion. Otherwise, I'd appreciate it if those of you familiar w/ the > book would let me know how accurate it is. I don't recall an extended discussion of Bradley, though his name has come up on a number of occasions. There is a considerable amount of information in Bradley that has been published nowhere else, particularly all the pre-production lyrics that he quotes, and anecdotes that he mined from prompt books and other material in the D'Oyly Carte archives. However, there are many sources that Bradley missed, and he did very little independent fact-checking. Consequently, he is error-prone. Various errors in Bradley have been posted to Savoynet from time to time, although no one has gone through the book systematically and pointed out all the mistakes. To give one example, in his PIRATES chapter, he interchangeably refers to "the Lord Chamberlain's copy", "the Paignton libretto", "the Paignton performance", etc. (I am quoting from memory.) In fact, there is no Paignton libretto (that we know of), and no one knows exactly what was given at the Paignton performance. The Lord Chamberlain's copy is not a Paignton libretto. Many of Bradley's errors are similar to the above: misdating texts. He will often say that something was either cut or restored in a particular revival, when it wasn't. When discussing pre-production lyrics, he will sometimes say that Sullivan never set them to music, when he did. Or, vice versa. Notwithstanding all of this, until someone does a better job, Bradley is still the only published source for a lot of unique material. So, it's a book I wouldn't be without. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14984; Mon, 25 May 98 10:12:07 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18656; Mon, 25 May 98 10:11:58 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA15579; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805251402.PAA21520@sand.global.net.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dcruze@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "SHANI D'CRUZE" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: recipe (Roly-Poly pudding) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: dcruze@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "SHANI D'CRUZE" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: recipe (Roly-Poly pudding) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Bobbie Herman was foolhardy enough to ask: _______ > In Act II of PATIENCE, Bunthorne sings about Roly-Poly Pudding. Can > anyone enlighten me as to what this is? > > I've looked through all my recipe books and can find no mention of it. > Is it a dessert, or perhaps a dinner pudding (such as Yorkshire)? Since > it is "dined on with chops," it might very well be. ______________ Only to be read by those of strong stomach. Roly Poly Pudding: (technical details extracted from FARMHOUSE FARE a collection of recipes sent in by English farmer's wives to the magazine Farmer's Weekly) 3/4lb self-raising flour 6 ozs chopped suet Mix with water to make suet crust. Roll out to 1/2 inch thickness. Spread with jam (normal) or in some variations from the economical housewife's kitchen with cold (grey) roast meat or grated root veg (parsnip, carrot turnip). foir savoury versions absolutely NO seasoning except salt and a little white pepper (not freshly ground and preferably from a plastic container). Roll up into a lumpy bundle. Seal the ends with water. Roll in a pudding cloth. Boil to death for at least 2 1/2 hours ensuring that you flood the surface of the stove at least once when it boils over. In modern usage savoury versions are consumed as a main course with gravy (either watery and tasteless or grey and lumpy according to taste) and the jam version with custard (made with powder not with eggs). In Bunthorne's cultural universe it would probably have been a sweet pudding, but in that perverse mode of Olde Englishe Cuisine would have been eaten before (or even with) a meat course to make the protein go further. Enjoy! Shani D'Cruze Home: 28 Wolseley St, Lancaster, LA1 3PH Phone 01524 34483 Email: dcruze@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00752; Thu, 28 May 98 18:42:19 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02972; Thu, 28 May 98 18:42:30 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA19048; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <356DE3EE.4015@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: The Beauty Stone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: The Beauty Stone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) Andrew Crowther wrote: > > I've just noticed, purely by chance, that it's exactly 100 years since the > premiere of Sullivan's _The Beauty Stone_. I must admit this is one Sullivan > piece I don't know. I'm told that the libretto is pretty awful, even though > Pinero was one of the librettists; but what's the music like? THE BEAUTY STONE was performed at the G&S Festival last year. It was a revised version by David Eden, where every note of the music was preserved, but Pinero's interminable dialog was compressed and strengthened. I came away enormously impressed: the score may be one of Sullivan's greatest achievements. It is far closer to through-composed than any opera he wrote other than IVANHOE. There are many leading motives, which are deployed with considerable skill. Given a good libretto, THE BEAUTY STONE could have been Sullivan's grand opera. Instead, it was a failure. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/  1, answered,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08647; Mon, 1 Jun 98 00:49:00 EDT Received: from ml.media.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15111; Mon, 1 Jun 98 00:49:00 EDT Received: (from jofish@localhost) by ml.media.mit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08403; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:48:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: Asher Davison Cc: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: video sitrep In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:48:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: Asher Davison Cc: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: video sitrep In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I feel certain you emailed me something about sending money somewhere to > pay for my video--but if so I've lost the message. Send it to whom, at > what address? I teach high school out in Lexington, hence the > impossibility of paying Diego in the mornings--I should have emailed you > right away about that . . . Sorry, you missed the deadline: we had already ordered the tapes. Your best bet is probably to email David, who made them, at opus@mit.edu. I believe they have a small number of spares and might be able to send one off to you if you sent them a check. jofish  1, answered,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22733; Mon, 1 Jun 98 13:31:55 EDT Received: from ml.media.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01627; Mon, 1 Jun 98 13:31:44 EDT Received: (from jofish@localhost) by ml.media.mit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25264; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:31:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: moo@media.mit.edu Cc: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: lame question... (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:31:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: moo@media.mit.edu Cc: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: lame question... (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We don't have any spare, I'm afraid, but I believe that David & Ruth made a few spare copies. Email them at opus@mit.edu and they might be able to send you one if you send them a check. jofish ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:51:18 -0400 From: Youngmoo Kim To: Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye Subject: lame question... Hey Jofish- I am completely lame for asking this question, but are there any "extra" videos left? I originally signed up for one, but never managed to get my ass over to Rinaldi to pay for it. So I don't really expect there to be any, but I thought I should check. Thanks! -Youngmoo ======================================================================= Youngmoo Kim Machine Listening Group MIT Media Lab moo@media.mit.edu  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27418; Mon, 1 Jun 98 13:48:44 EDT Received: from aleve.media.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14870; Mon, 1 Jun 98 13:48:43 EDT Received: from [18.85.5.223] (lieder.media.mit.edu [18.85.5.223]) by aleve.media.mit.edu (8.8.7/ML970927) with ESMTP id NAA00646 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: moo@ml.media.mit.edu Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:49:24 -0400 To: opus@MIT.EDU From: Youngmoo Kim Subject: Grand Hotel Videos *** EOOH *** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: moo@ml.media.mit.edu Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:49:24 -0400 To: opus@MIT.EDU From: Youngmoo Kim Subject: Grand Hotel Videos Hi! I was in Grand Hotel. Jofish said that you might have made a few spare copies, and I was wondering if I might be able to buy one from you. Let me know how much (if there are any available) and I'd be happy to send you a check. Thanks! -Youngmoo ======================================================================= Youngmoo Kim Machine Listening Group MIT Media Lab moo@media.mit.edu  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04705; Mon, 1 Jun 98 14:13:44 EDT Received: from CHARON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB21876; Mon, 1 Jun 98 14:13:43 EDT Received: (from opus@localhost) by charon.MIT.EDU (8.7.6/2.3JIK) id OAA28074; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:13:45 -0400 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:13:45 -0400 Message-Id: <199806011813.OAA28074@charon.MIT.EDU> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" In-Reply-To: Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye's message of Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: lame question... (fwd) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:13:45 -0400 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" In-Reply-To: Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye's message of Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: lame question... (fwd) Jofish, It's probably better for you to handle ordering the tapes from me. The reason for this is that my cost for each copy is $7.00, but you probably want to charge the $18.00 that everyone else is paying. This way, you can feed $11 back to the department, since they covered the shortage, and would appreciate a kickback. Also, since you are close to campus, it would be easier for you to arrange delivery. If you really want, I will handle things directly, under the following conditions. Anyone who wants a copy will send me a check (made out to "IPNH") for $21.00 ($18.00 + $3.00 shipping and handling). I also need the address of where to send the tape. Upon receiving the check, I will make a copy of the show, and mail it out. I will then send you a check for $11 for each tape handled in this fashion. I'll need to know who to make that check out to, of course. Checks can be mailed to: IPNH 4 Foster Road Milford, NH 03055-3604 -Dave  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28006; Wed, 3 Jun 98 16:47:20 EDT Received: from sch.ci.lexington.ma.us by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25556; Wed, 3 Jun 98 16:47:20 EDT Received: from [198.113.163.189] by 198.113.163.189 with SMTP; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:45:09 -0400 To: opus@MIT.EDU From: ADavison@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us (Asher Davison) Subject: video *** EOOH *** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:45:09 -0400 To: opus@MIT.EDU From: ADavison@sch.ci.lexington.ma.us (Asher Davison) Subject: video David, I was a pit player in Grand Hotel, and since I live away from campus I blew it getting money in to buy a copy of the video. I hear you may have a couple extras? Is this true? Thanks-- Asher 492-2877  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11263; Thu, 4 Jun 98 18:24:47 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02853; Thu, 4 Jun 98 18:24:47 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA28538; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806041817_MC2-3F3D-300C@compuserve.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: ABridgman@compuserve.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Adrian Bridgman To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: re:Gondiliers misprint query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: ABridgman@compuserve.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Adrian Bridgman To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: re:Gondiliers misprint query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I think the only misprint is in the spelling of Gondiliers! Seriously, though, I have checked three editions of the vocal score and in all of them the Tenor entry on "Sullen" is on the A. The three editions are 1) A Chappell hardback edition bought in 1980 in which the Tenor entry in question is on page 94 like the current edition. 2) A Chappell score printed sometime after the 1898 revival which lists both the original cast of 7th December 1889 and revival cast of 22nd March 1898. This edition uses the same typeface but the page numbering is different. Luiz's clumsy < Nor His Grace's own particular drum/To Venetia's shores any more will come> is included and all four verses of are printed together (in what is generally reckoned to be the wrong order) reducing the page count by 2. Consequently the disputed Tenor entry is on page 92. 3) A Chappell vocal score which lists only the original cast and, on the title page, credits Gilbert and Sullivan as joint authors of all the operas from Thespis to Yeomen (including all the alternative titles where appropriate). This edition has a totally different typeface and the offending entry is on page 75, third bar. The verses of are again in the "wrong" order, and likewise in Don Alhambra's other song, (or if you prefer it in Latin) Marco and Giuseppe only sing at the very end of each verse. Incidentally, whilst we are considering old versions of Gondoliers, two of my three sets of the 1918/1919 (?) HMV acoustic recording on D36-D46 have Derek Oldham singing Marco on side 12 (D41) < Now pray what is the cause>. The matrix number of this side is HO4550AF . On the other set, Marco is sung by John Harrison and the matrix number of side 12 is HO3797af. Just to confuse matters one of the Derek Oldham discs credits John Harrison on the record label. A study of the matrix numbers of other HMV recordings suggests that this side was re-recorded at the end of a Pirates/Yeomen recording session in 1920/21 (?). Pirates D504-D514 side 18 and is matrix number HO4548AF and Yeomen D481-D485 & D496-D501 side 22 is matrix number HO4549AF. Perhaps the master disc at HMV got damaged and needed re-recording. Has any collector of the old acoustic 78s noticed any similar oddities? I know that different sets of Iolanthe D632-D641 variously credit George Byng and Harry Norris as conductor, even though the matrix numbers are the same. And whose idea was the numbering of the acoustic Yeomen set? It's all over the place! I'm sorry if, by now, you are allowing your attention to wander, but, still addressing the attentive Savoynetters,or should I say SavoyNetters; I have not yet been informed which title our fellowship has pleased to select. If the casting vote's with me I give it for the former. Regards, Adrian Bridgman abridgman@compuserve.com Swansea, Wales  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25338; Thu, 4 Jun 98 20:23:11 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20429; Thu, 4 Jun 98 20:23:12 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA01180; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:23:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:23:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <357737F8.5DABA980@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Gondiliers misprint query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:23:05 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Gondiliers misprint query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) Adrian Bridgman wrote: > Incidentally, whilst we are considering old versions of Gondoliers, two of > my three sets of the 1918/1919 (?) HMV acoustic recording > on D36-D46 have Derek Oldham singing Marco on side 12 (D41) < Now pray > what is the cause>. The matrix number of this side is HO4550AF . On the > other set, Marco is sung by John Harrison and the matrix number of side 12 > is HO3797af. Just to confuse > matters one of the Derek Oldham discs credits John Harrison on the record > label. A damaged master is the likely explanation. Probably, at the time they re-recorded the side, they had some old labels left that they continued to use. Incidentally, Chris Webseter poited out to me that the Derek Oldham re-take excludes the recitative "Come, let's away," which is present on the John Harrison version. > Has any collector of the old acoustic 78s noticed any similar oddities? Almost all of the acoustical sets, and even some of the electrical sets, had multiple takes issued. See the Discography web site (http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/gasdisc/) for details. Savoynetters Chris Webster and Michael Walters have also made a number of important contributions to this site. > And whose idea was the numbering of the acoustic Yeomen set? It's all over > the place! This set was recorded on the following dates (all 1920): 4 March 18 March 21 May 26 May 6 July 31 August 2 September 2 October It is likely that some of the sides recorded on later dates were, in fact, retakes of sides recorded on earlier dates. For example, the one side recorded on 2 October was the finale. Rupert D'Oyly Carte apparently didn't think George Baker's Point was tragic enough, so it had to be done again. Still, it is difficult to explain why it took quite this many sessions to get the recording done. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/  1, answered,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14385; Thu, 4 Jun 98 23:39:15 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12134; Thu, 4 Jun 98 23:39:02 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA04105; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <19980604.232113.8510.3.JaniceDals@juno.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: janicedals@juno.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: janicedals@juno.com (Janice E Dallas) To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: video: orchestra or credits X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: janicedals@juno.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: janicedals@juno.com (Janice E Dallas) To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: video: orchestra or credits X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 Friends, The "entr'act" thread got me thinking about how we groups present our orchestras to the world. The last two videotapes that Sudbury Savoyards did of their productions had the credits run on "wallpaper" during the overture, instead of over a pan of the orchestra members. I find that I very much miss seeing my friends in the orchestra on the tape. There's really very little opportunity to show them elsewhere on the videotape. My son, a videographer, always shows the orchestra, with just the leads, directors and designers' names and positions super-imposed over them. He saves the rest of the credits to run over the final bows or on top of out-takes of "Hack night" or back stage goings-ons. Do other people feel as I do, that it's important to show close-ups of the orchestra, as part of the production, or doesn't anyone care? Janice Dallas JaniceDals@juno.com Bedford, MA, USA (near Boston) Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit ... _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17156; Fri, 5 Jun 98 16:34:26 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02862; Fri, 5 Jun 98 16:34:11 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA19690; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806052024.QAA10880@charon.MIT.EDU> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: opus@MIT.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: video: orchestra or credits X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: opus@MIT.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: video: orchestra or credits X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum --text follows this line-- >The "entr'act" thread got me thinking about how we groups present our >orchestras to the world. The last two videotapes that Sudbury Savoyards >did of their productions had the credits run on "wallpaper" during the >overture, instead of over a pan of the orchestra members. I find that I >very much miss seeing my friends in the orchestra on the tape. There's >really very little opportunity to show them elsewhere on the videotape. In defense of the Sudbury _Pinafore_, which I happened to videotape, the placement of the cameras did not allow for a decent shot of the orchestra members. I did tape the orchestra during the overture with the intention of using that footage, but I was not pleased with the way it looked, and decided not to use it. I cannot speak for the Sudbury _Yeomen_, which I did not videotape, but judging from my own experience, and noting where they placed their cameras, I would expect that they had similar issues with the way it looked. >Do other people feel as I do, that it's important to show close-ups of >the orchestra, as part of the production, or doesn't anyone care? I think it is good to do this, but only if it can be done in such a way that allows the people to be recognized. If all you see is a silhouette of the conductor, and the upper half of the heads of the orchestra, I don't think that would be acceptable. As an aside, I've occasionally had an orchestra member complain to me when I *have* shown the orchestra that they weren't expecting to be put on camera! It's hard to win sometimes... -Dave Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27939; Fri, 5 Jun 98 17:37:57 EDT Received: from jtk.ne.mediaone.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15163; Fri, 5 Jun 98 17:37:30 EDT Received: (from jtk@localhost) by kolvir.arlington.ma.us (8.8.8/JTK19980409) id RAA25231; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Resent-From: John Kohl Resent-Message-Id: <199806052137.RAA25231@kolvir.arlington.ma.us> Message-Id: <199806052137.RAA25231@kolvir.arlington.ma.us> Resent-Date: 5 Jun 1998 17:37:39 -0400 Resent-To: dinner@MIT.EDU Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:50:52 +0100 From: "aardmarket" To: Subject: AARDNEWS: NEW LOOK FOR THE AARDMARKET, STAGEFRIGHT BAFTA WIN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** EOOH *** Resent-From: John Kohl Resent-Date: 5 Jun 1998 17:37:39 -0400 Resent-To: dinner@MIT.EDU Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:50:52 +0100 From: "aardmarket" To: Subject: AARDNEWS: NEW LOOK FOR THE AARDMARKET, STAGEFRIGHT BAFTA WIN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Aardfan Its been a little while since our last e-mail newsletter... we've been busy. Read on to see what we've been up to! The Aardmarket now has an entirely fresh and exciting look. If you browse the shop window youll see some new products including a new exclusive T-shirt featuring Wallace & Gromit enjoying the summer weather. This high quality T-shirt is available uniquely from the Aardmarket and is not retailed anywhere else in the world! Also, smarten up your bedroom with a colourful Wallace and Gromit duvet set and... what you've all been demanding for so long... Shaun and Gromit cuddly toys! There are also new cards available featuring Wallace for Fathers Day which is on June 21st. Clear your cache for the new Aardmarket at:- http://aardmarket.aardman.com/ We'd love to hear your feedback on the new Aardmarket, so feel free to leave messages on the guestbook:- http://www.aardman.com/guestbook/ In Aardnews youll find items on Steve Boxs Stage Fright BAFTA win and Aardmans screenings at the Vital! International Animation Festival in Cardiff in late June. The festival will include premieres of two new Aardman shorts and a sneak preview of an episode from our newest series directed by Richard Goleszowski: Rex The Runt. See Aardnews at:- http://www.aardman.com/aardnews/ Look out for new features in the weeks to come. Best wishes, From Aardman Animations and all at the Aardmarket. ------------------------------------------------------- This email comes from Aardman Animations' Aardmarket. To remove yourself from this list send an email to : latest-aardmarket-news-request@firkin.mailmktg.com with unsubscribe as the message.  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27956; Fri, 5 Jun 98 17:38:01 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15203; Fri, 5 Jun 98 17:37:47 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA21001; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <980605142848.ZM20236@xsvr4.cup.hp.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: lbyler@cup.hp.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Larry Byler" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: video: orchestra or credits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) In-Reply-To: janicedals@juno.com (Janice E Dallas) *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: lbyler@cup.hp.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Larry Byler" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: video: orchestra or credits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) In-Reply-To: janicedals@juno.com (Janice E Dallas) On Jun 4, 23:38, Janice E Dallas wrote: > My son, a videographer, always shows the orchestra, with just the leads, > directors and designers' names and positions super-imposed over them. He > saves the rest of the credits to run over the final bows or on top of > out-takes of "Hack night" or back stage goings-ons. I think this is a *great* idea. Unfortunately, neither my modest talents nor my equipment support this sort of thing. On a couple of occasions, Neil Midkiff has worked video wizardry to provide Stanford Savoyards videos with pictorial titles using stills from the shows, but we've never tried chroma-keyed (transparent) credits over live action. > Do other people feel as I do, that it's important to show close-ups of > the orchestra, as part of the production, or doesn't anyone care? I agree 110%, and not just because my wife is a violinist in those orchestras :-). But again, practical problems often intervene. One example will suffice, but there are others like it. Dinkelspiel Auditorium, where Stanford Savoyards performs, has no booth or other non-audience area for my video equipment. So I set up at the back of the house, with microphones at the footlights and a sound cable back to me. The orchestra is in a 6-7 foot pit at the front of the house. During the overture, the only visible pit person is the conductor, and that only from the chest up and from the back. Since I only use one camera, there is no way to capture any of the players during the overture. Even with multiple cameras, the peculiar geometry of the Dink pit prevents wandering around in the pit, and wandering around in the house would be very distracting to the audience (at least those with their eyes open :-)). There is a suspended ceiling for lighting and tech types, but from there you would be looking almost straight down. You might get great shots of the instruments, but almost nothing of the faces playing them. In other houses I'm in a booth at the rear and above the audience. From there, I *can* see individual members of the orchestra, and I do visit them during the overture. I try to get everyone when they are playing a foreground passage, closeups as well as sections. Groups such as Seattle G&S who have the good fortune of a professional crew and equipment, and who devote an entire announced performance to the needs of video, can do the job right. At my level of production, my overriding goal is not to intrude on the audience, who, after all, have paid money to see a stage production and couldn't care less about my problems. Sorry, I seem to have rambled on a bit. I'll stop now. -Larry "a thing of shreds and patches" Byler- lbyler@cup.hp.com Sunnyvale, CA USA  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17496; Sun, 7 Jun 98 01:21:03 EDT Received: from x15.boston.juno.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04233; Sun, 7 Jun 98 01:21:03 EDT Received: (from janicedals@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BrL00568; Sun, 07 Jun 1998 01:20:39 EDT To: opus@MIT.EDU Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:02:59 -0400 Subject: Re: video: orchestra or credits Message-Id: <19980607.011926.14622.2.JaniceDals@juno.com> References: <199806062020.QAA12921@charon.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4-9 From: janicedals@juno.com (Janice E Dallas) *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:02:59 -0400 Subject: Re: video: orchestra or credits References: <199806062020.QAA12921@charon.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4-9 From: janicedals@juno.com (Janice E Dallas) David, Of course Jonathan would like to show you his work, and maybe the two of you could come up with something. He's at JonDallas@Aol.com if you'd like to e-mail him. His hours are strange, as are mine, so I don't usually see too much of him. Janice Dallas JaniceDals@juno.com Bedford, MA, USA (near Boston) Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit ... _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28451; Sun, 7 Jun 98 17:10:47 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13336; Sun, 7 Jun 98 17:10:31 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA25986; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 17:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 17:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806072106.WAA30446@andromeda.ndirect.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: 1938 Mikado music AND SCENES on CD X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 17:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: 1938 Mikado music AND SCENES on CD X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 Further to my recent posting about this project I am pleased to now find that I have been able to include nearly all of the songs AND scenes from the film onto one disc. ALL of the songs are included but I have cut the overture (which was edited and wasn't the first item anyway) as well as some of the additional instrumental passages which were added to pad out some of the non-vocal sequences. I THINK that the only cuts I have made to the dialogue are - the prologue scene between Nanki-Poo and the Mikado (which was an invention, although the words were from later scenes in the proper lib), Nanki-Poo's scene with Pish-Tush ('A Year ago I was a member of the Titipu town band'), the scene following Three Little Maids ('I know I deserve you anger' / 'Take him away') and the dialogue leading to the madrigal. This still leaves 11 complete scenes and 21 musical items. I'm think those listed above are the only bits I have omitted but to be sure I shall list ALL the tracks that are featured. 1. If you want to know who we are 2. The sun whose rays (Kenny Baker) 3. A Wandering Minstrel 4. Our great Mikado 5. SCENE: 'But how good of you to tell me' 6. Behold the Lord High Executioner 7. SCENE: 'It seems the festivities...' 8. Comes a train 9. Three little maids 10. SCENE: 'The son of the Mikado' 11. Were you not to Ko-Ko plighted 12. SCENE: 'A letter from the Mikado' 13. I am so proud 14. SCENE: 'Substitute!' 15. Act One Finale 16. Braid the raven hair 17. The sun whose rays (Yum-Yum) 18. Brightly Dawns Our Wedding Day 19. SCENE: 'Buried alive!' 20. Here's a how-de-do 21. SCENE: ' The Mikado and his suite are approaching' 22. Miya sama 23. A more humane Mikado 24. SCENE: 'You had an execution, have you?' 25. The criminal cried 26. SCENE: I wasn't there 27. SCENE: Corroborative detail 28. The flowers that bloom in the Spring 29. SCENE: Shrink not from me 30. Tit Willow 31. SCENE: Nothing could possibly be more satisfactory 32. Act Two Finale 33. Play Out I think it will interest a number of netters to note that I have found an article from January 1939 stating that the Little List song was indeed NOT included in the film. This has been speculated about quite considerably and I only noticed this item this evening. I can send more details of this to anyone who wished to contact me privately. This disc is not ready for sale yet, but I will be sending the details when it is ready. (Don't forget that I DO find it helpful if you can let me know if you are thinking of purchasing this disc when it is ready so that I will have an idea how many to run off on the first run) Regards Chris  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01642; Mon, 8 Jun 98 17:08:40 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB03256; Mon, 8 Jun 98 17:08:35 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA16936; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <980608135746.ZM19694@xsvr4.cup.hp.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: lbyler@cup.hp.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Larry Byler" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: video Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) In-Reply-To: "David C. Jedlinsky" *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: lbyler@cup.hp.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Larry Byler" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: video Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) In-Reply-To: "David C. Jedlinsky" I wasn't going to chime in, since video is marginally on-topic, and I've posted often on it, most recently a few days ago. But I'd like to comment on a couple of David's points. On Jun 8, 15:44, David C. Jedlinsky wrote: > It makes a huge difference if the move > anticipates the action, rather than the other way around. Advance > planning also tends to reduce the number of zooms required, as well. 110% agreement on both points. Even better if the move and the action happen at the same time (track each other). In my experience, there's no substitute for practice. That's why I show up with minimal gear at dress rehearsals. I use those rehearsals to experiment with picking which area of the scene to shoot, framing it, tracking, entrances and exits (continuity), zoom, reacting to changes in light levels, and anything else I feel I'll need for the actual performance. > However, no one ever complained that > a zoom was too distracting. I don't disagree that someone trained in > video would find a zoom jarring, as we are often taught to avoid that > unnatural move like the plague. Zooms, like any other aspect of camera work, are tools that can be used "for good or for ill, it is for thee to say". In one Mikado, I used a quick zoom to tighten in on Pooh-Bah, Pish-Tush, and Pitti-Sing just as they echoed "A second trombone?!" In the recent Stanford Savoyards _Patience_ I used it again to pick up the Patience-Bunthorne aside "They love him - horror!". Far more unnatural to me is the quick pan from one area of the stage to another, especially when already zoomed in. It tends to promote nausea in the viewer. So I try to avoid that at all costs. -Larry Byler- e-mail: lbyler@cup.hp.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lyric Theatre: Videographer (the performing company of the Rehearsal pianist (1 of 3) Gilbert & Sullivan Society of San Jose) Stanford Savoyards: Videographer Rehearsal pianist (1 of 4)  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04149; Thu, 11 Jun 98 07:06:19 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04718; Thu, 11 Jun 98 07:06:14 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA18798; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980611110322.006932d0@mailserver.nhm.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: mpw@nhm.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Walters To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: CD of Mikado film soundtrack Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: mpw@nhm.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Walters To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: CD of Mikado film soundtrack Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Last night Chris Webster brought me round a copy of a test pressing of the CD he has been preparing, details of which he has posted to the net. I had to sit down and listen to it and thought he has done an excellent job. It proved to be absolutely fascinating to listen to the sound without the distraction of looking at the film at the same time, and I can strongly recommend it. One of the most interesting things was to hear how much more animated Martyn Green and Sydney Granville are on the sound track than they are on their gramophone records (which sound boring by comparison) and how often they as well as the rest of the cast half-speak lines rather than singing them - again in sharp contrast to the records. I noted also how melodramatic Sydney Granville's dialogue sounds, very different from present day delivery. One query concerns the date of the film. Chris gives 1938 but Mander & Mitchinson give 1939. However, Rollins & Witts give the first showing as 12 January 1939 at the Leicester Square Theatre, London, so presumably it must have been made in 1938. Queries regarding the cast. Does anyone know why Gregory Stroud was cast as Pish-Tush? He never played this role on stage. He only appeared with the D'Oyly Carte during August 1926 (in the New Company) and from September to December the same year in the main company, playing Grosvenor, Strephon, Florian and Giuseppe. He made records from the shows "Katya the Dancer" and "Sally". An odd choice, unless he already had connections with films?? Why was Elizabeth Nickell-Lean cast as Pitti-Sing (and why did she change her name to Paynter for the film)? She had left the company before the film was made. Nevertheless, it is interesting to hear her, as her only recording was as Peep-bo. And why on earth was such a minor member of the company as Kathleen Naylor cast as Peep-bo? All very interesting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael P. Walters Bird Group, The Natural History Museum, at Walter Rothschild Zoological Museum, Tring, Herts., HP23 6AP, UK Tel: 0144282-4181 Fax: 01442-890-693 email: mpw@nhm.ac.uk "Only mediocrity is always at its best" (Richard Goolden)  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27920; Thu, 11 Jun 98 11:30:38 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17783; Thu, 11 Jun 98 11:30:30 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA22819; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806111517.QAA16404@andromeda.ndirect.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: My box (covers 'Encores' and 'Mikado film CD' topics) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: My box (covers 'Encores' and 'Mikado film CD' topics) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 I have a box containing many hundreds (in fact probably over a thousand) G&S/DCOC press cuttings. I have not been through this box for some time but last night and this morning I was going through it searching for any details I could find on the Mikado film. I was not disappointed. There are quite a lot of cuttings covering the film which will help to make interesting reading when I write notes for my CD of the soundtrack. I had originally intended NOT including any notes at all with this issue, just cast details etc. but I now have much info to draw upon. The cuttings are mainly from the 20s and 30 although there are more recent items covering particularly the copyright expiry business. I received this box from the lady who had been collecting them since about 1926 and she was a big fan of Sir Henry Lytton so there is much here on that extremely celebrated artist. It is interesting to note that letters were being published in newspapers as early as 1926 complaining about the number of encores. One letter is from a gent who saw the operas as early as 1890-something, and he states that such encores would never have been allowed in those days. Another letter also from 26 contains a parody of the Little List song directed at those members of the audience who request these encores. It does seem to me though that the writer is in the minority and that the encores were part of the fun that a very large majority of the audience wanted to see. Also in the box is an original cutting of the now well publicised letter complaining about Sargent's 're-orchestrations' and the reply from Rupert DC telling the corespondent that Sargent had in fact merely reinstated Sullivan's original scoring and had not written his own. There are a large number of cutting referring to live radio relays of the operas with Lytton and Green, I have e no doubt that many of these concern the same broadcast but it is unfortunate that too often the cutting is from the centre of a page and so the date is not to be found. Much also about the fatal Lytton/Lewis crash in Cambridge from local newspapers because the lady who kept the cuttings coincidentally lived in Cambridge and was very much surrounded by the incident. If you have Tony Joseph's book, brief reminiscences of the incident by this lady (Mrs Gwyneth Davies nee Fordham) are reported on pages 226-7. I say 'brief' because I often asked Mrs Davies to tell me the story of what she remembered about the incident and she told me far more than the few sentences that she is allocated in the book. Bertha Lewis's inquest and funeral also took place in Cambridge and these too are well documented, as are Lytton's recovery, retirement and passing.  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07585; Thu, 11 Jun 98 12:05:27 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11192; Thu, 11 Jun 98 12:05:22 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA23361; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806111551.QAA22430@andromeda.ndirect.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: CD of Mikado film soundtrack X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: CD of Mikado film soundtrack X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 I reply to Michael Walters message about the CD >Last night Chris Webster brought me round a copy of a test pressing of the >CD he has been preparing, details of which he has posted to the net. I had >to sit down and listen to it and thought he has done an excellent job. Thank you. >proved to be absolutely fascinating to listen to the sound without the >distraction of looking at the film at the same time, and I can strongly >recommend it. It does make it seem a little different not having the pictures. I have also compiled CDs of George Formby using soundtrack songs that are generally well known but which have been received favourably and described as 'most refreshing' in this new audio only medium. I think the Mikado film also benefits from this. In particular I find John Barclays portrayal of the Mikado to be far less slimy and is a much more thoughtful portrayal than he has been given credit for. I think the star of the show when one can not see Green's antics (which admittedly some may not like, but I do) is Sydney Granville. Every last ounce of juice is squeezed from his lines and this role comes over better than ever in audio. Without the visuals Green sounds more subdued than before. One thing that is even more noticeable now is Kenny Baker's accent. (I've just found out from newspaper cuttings that he was only 25 when he made this film) >One query concerns the date of the film. Chris gives 1938 but Mander & >Mitchinson give 1939. However, Rollins & Witts give the first showing as 12 >January 1939 at the Leicester Square Theatre, London, so presumably it must >have been made in 1938. Yes. My date refers to the date the film was made and not the release date. I haven't pinpointed the complete recording schedule (yet) but filming was in progress in July 1938 and I presume all of the soundtrack songs would have been recorded by this time. >Queries regarding the cast. Does anyone know why Gregory Stroud was cast as >Pish-Tush? He never played this role on stage. He only appeared with the >D'Oyly Carte during August 1926 (in the New Company) and from September to >December the same year in the main company, playing Grosvenor, Strephon, >Florian and Giuseppe. He made records from the shows "Katya the Dancer" and >"Sally". An odd choice, unless he already had connections with films?? I have found a cuttings with biographical information about Gregory Stroud. I haven't really studied these yet, but they will be for the notes. >Why was Elizabeth Nickell-Lean cast as Pitti-Sing (and why did she change >her name to Paynter for the film)? She had left the company before the film >was made. Nevertheless, it is interesting to hear her, as her only >recording was as Peep-bo. And why on earth was such a minor member of the >company as Kathleen Naylor cast as Peep-bo? All very interesting. Perhaps some answers may be found in the cuttings. Anyone wanting to find out more will do so when they hopefully purchase copies of the disc !! (I will announce on Savoynet when it is ready for sale). Michael's question about the change of name from Nickell-Lean to Paynter is something that I do not think I will find out from the info I have at hand. Does anybody else know? I think it is quite an important item to cover if it can be ascertained. Chris  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29774; Thu, 11 Jun 98 16:38:23 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08876; Thu, 11 Jun 98 16:38:14 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA29763; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980611213030.2b3f82da@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: pdp@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Mikado film etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: pdp@globalnet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Mikado film etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) At 07:05 11/06/98 -0400, Michael Walters wrote: >One query concerns the date of the film. Chris gives 1938 but Mander & >Mitchinson give 1939. However, Rollins & Witts give the first showing as 12 >January 1939 at the Leicester Square Theatre, London, so presumably it must >have been made in 1938. > I have in front of me the programme for the premier of this film and can confirm it was indeed 12th January 1939 at The Leicester Square Theatre and was given in aid of the Boy Scouts Appeal Fund in the presence of the then Duke and Duchess of Kent. This programme contains ''The Story'' of the Mikado as filmed. This version contains no reference whatever to the Little List song; that episode being entirely left out in the descriptive story. That to me is conclusive evidence that the item although filmed was never included in the publically shown version, at least in UK. As that number is one of the highlights of the Mikado it would hardly have been overlooked by the storywriter for the programme. What this programme also reveals is an advert by HMV for records. I have not previously come across an Album of selections taken from the existing full recordings of the operas. The numbers are: DB 4029 to DB 4032 (4 records). The Mikado set DB 4038 to DB 4048 (DB8105 to DB 8115 auto coupled) is advertised with a note ''album presented with complete set of records''. The abridged versions of Gondoliers, Pirates, Sorcerer and Yeomen are advertised with albums at 2/6 extra ( 12.5 pence in todays money ). There is no mention of the cost of the album for the selections set, or whether that was supplied free. All the 12 inch records, even the full opera, are priced individually at 6 shillings each, with the abridged sets (10 inch size) shown as 18 shillings per set. No numbers are quoted for the abridged sets in this advert. The advert also lists all the G & S opera recordings then available under the D'Oyly Carte banner. One other thing is that the 'selections' set which includes items from Mikado, Iolanthe, Gondoliers, Pinafore, and Yeomen (as usual spelt by HMV as YeomAn) does not contain the Little List song. It does include Wandering Minstrel, Tit Willow, For he's gone and married Yum Yum, Brightly Dawns our Wedding Day and Here'e a how-de-do. I note that to get all those selections you had to buy all four disks. Isidore Godfrey's name is also spelt wrongly in this advert. Another thing I have learnt from this programme is that for this premier, General Film Distributors Ltd lent both the film itself and the Theatre in aid of the charity. I can't answer the casting queries and do not seem to have any letters or documents relating to that aspect of the film. I didn't even know I had this programme until I came across it by accident looking for something else!! Peter. Peter D Parker. pdp@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22751; Thu, 11 Jun 98 18:24:23 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03640; Thu, 11 Jun 98 18:24:15 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA01923; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806112212.XAA17105@andromeda.ndirect.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Darrell Fancourt and his N-word. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Darrell Fancourt and his N-word. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 This is not for the politically correct, and I raise matter purely as an observation. I have very recently listened to the 1926 recording of the Mikado. It's funny how each new listening brings something that hasn't been noticed before. With the exception of Lewis's Alone and Yet Alive (which has most definitely never been equalled and, although is may seem unreasonable to say it, I doubt ever will be) one of the finest pieces of singing comes with Fancourt's Mikado's Song, and in particular with the word 'nigger'. Emphasis is not laid on this word for the sake of what it is, but for the sake of the place it takes in the music and the strength of the sung syllables. The second syllable 'geeeerrrrr' absolutely lends itself to magnificence of vocal stylism for the right singer. This is not possible with the appropriate syllables in the other verses. (Germaaaannn - no. Extracteeeeddd - no.) The exchanged word 'vigour' could also receive the same delivery for the right person, but unfortunately by 1950 Fancourt was not the right person. I wonder if Walter Matthau had heard this recording when he made the film 'The Sunshine Boys'. Surely his delivery of the words '... the finGEERRRR' have been adapted from Fancourt's 'nigGEERRR' !!!!! Until this listening I had not made any direct comparison between the Fancourt of the HMV recordings and the Fancourt of the Decca recordings, and I was quite surprised when I did make a comparison to find that the Decca Fancourt that I had always found quite acceptable was, in comparison with the HMV Fancourt, no more that a lispy shadow of his earlier days. The voice had lost the magnificence I referred to earlier although there is still that certain presence. Fancourt did record the role again for HMV in 1936 but this rendering of the song has also slightly lost its edge although I think this is more a fault of the recording engineer, or possibly the recording location, than Fancourt. The acoustic of the earlier version is gorgeous and although the Pearl transfer has been much criticised for leaving all the surface crackles in, I feel that this is preferable to having a cleaned up transfer that has gone too far in losing the surface noise at the expense of losing the original acoustic. Of course it is possible to obtain a happy medium, but at the risk of spoiling the original sound it is preferable to have the crackly version. Let's hope that this is something I never do with any transfer I make - or if I do I would hope that someone DOES tell me. It is much wiser to leave any unwanted noise in, rather than spoil the original with too much attenuation.  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02803; Thu, 11 Jun 98 19:42:02 EDT Received: from europe.std.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14471; Thu, 11 Jun 98 19:41:52 EDT Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA20614; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA12412; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:41:50 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:41:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jessica Raine To: gsp@MIT.EDU Subject: ANNOUNCE: G&S scores Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:41:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jessica Raine To: gsp@MIT.EDU Subject: ANNOUNCE: G&S scores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello, all, this is your happy sheet music retail representative speaking. I'm just letting you all know that the shop where I work (The Boston Music Company) now has piano-vocal scores of "Cox and Box" and "Thespis" for sale or perusal. (Before I get blasted: yes, I know, "Thespis" was lost. It still is. Ask me for details.) Since these are hard to locate, I thought people might be interested to know that we have them in case you want to come look at them. We usually have a good selection of the other scores too. Also: I have a "Yeoman" score which is not mine. I'm also missing my scores for "Yeoman" and "Sorceror". If you have them, you can tell they're mine because they've been spiralbound to lie flat on a piano, and also because they have BostonMusicCo barcode stickers on the bottom corner of the back cover. I bring them to lots of singalongs, so I'm thinking they got mixed in with someone else's. If you have them, or if you think I have your "Yeoman" score (I've taken good care of it) please let me know. At work: 426-5100 At home: 926-7165 (until August, 566-2119 thereafter) online: jade@world.std.com You may now return to your regularly scheduled, um, schedule. :) --Jess Jessica Raine | jade@world.std.com "Milord, I should be sorry if I only entertained them. I wished to make them better."--G F Handel Visit the Boston Music Company homepage: http://www.bostonian.com/bmc  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05778; Thu, 11 Jun 98 20:07:52 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08899; Thu, 11 Jun 98 20:07:47 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA03491; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: jacquileon@classic.msn.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Jacqui Good" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: HMS 78s X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: jacquileon@classic.msn.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Jacqui Good" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: HMS 78s X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum We are Canadian publishers & broadcasters, new to Savoynet. Because of our particular interest in G & S, we received this message recently from a listener wondering what to do with some 78s. Does anyone out there have any interest in the discs or giving Ron Lambert any advice about their disposal? He's in Winnipeg, Canada. Thanks for your help -- Leon Cole & Jacqui Good, Good Cheer Publishing, Hubbards,NS Candad www.goodcheer.com (contains some G&S material) "On Friday night, I began cleaning out some of the household treasurers from my Mom's house as it is sold for July 1st. I came across several 'boxed sets of the H.M.S. Gilbert and Sullivan '78s. I have the H.M.S. Pinafore leaflet infront of me. Although it was first produced (at the Opera Comique) on May 25, 1878, I suspect the recordings are from the late '30s. My Dad was a G&S and Classics fan. Instead of my sending them to the record trading place or to the Manitoba Chamber Orchestra annual record mart, or thinking they have outlived any value and trashing them, I would like to see if there is a place for all the G&S sets in some archive that you might know. I don't know how many such sets are around. I don't know if any G&S performing group would welcome such an addition. I don't want it to be selved. I know there is an interest in the earlier performances. Especially, those under the "supervision of Rupert D'Oyly Carte". This RCA recording has Frederic Ranalow as The Rt. hon. Sir Joseph Porter, K.C.B., Sydney Granville as Capt. Corcoran, Walter Glynne as Ralph Rackstraw, D. Fancourt as Dick Deadeye, E. Halland as Bill Bobstay, J. Hay as Bob Becket, Violet Essex as Josephine, Bertha Lewis as Little Buttercup, and Bessie Jones as Hebe. The words and notes for recording sequencing are included. As a family, I did not hear these as the LP came in when I was young, and the '78 player from my parents youth did not play. However, the sets were kept in the front room, on display along with a "Collier's". I think the G&S will survive them at this time. Please think about this, and let me know if they are of 'value' in the way I discribed or any way you may think of. Bye Ron Lambert E-mail rlambert@mbnet.mb.ca Telephone (204) 775-8985 Sargent Park Junior High070 Dominion St., Winnipeg, Manitoba, R3E 2P4 Web Site http://www.wsd1.org/sargentpark  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16423; Tue, 16 Jun 98 02:29:04 EDT Received: from ml.media.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11875; Tue, 16 Jun 98 02:28:51 EDT Received: (from jofish@localhost) by ml.media.mit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06461; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:28:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Grand Hotel (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199806160319.XAA07317@charon.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:28:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: Grand Hotel (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199806160319.XAA07317@charon.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I got the check today. Thanks to both of you for everything involved > in getting the tapes taken care of. Glad to hear it. Sorry for the huge inneficiencies of MIT's accounting system. > Jofish, I asked you a little while ago how you wanted to handle the > people who didn't order tapes in time. I can re-send my proposal for > this if you missed it. > -Dave Jedlinsky > opus@mit.edu It was a good idea: I was waiting to see if anyone else wanted me. If you want to go ahead and send me two more tapes then that'd work and I'll send you a check for two tapes + s/h. jofish  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03425; Tue, 16 Jun 98 14:20:28 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09846; Tue, 16 Jun 98 14:20:16 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA22182; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: bschneid@MIT.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: William R Schneider To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: The Grand Duke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: bschneid@MIT.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: William R Schneider To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: The Grand Duke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I've been a silent observer on SavoyNet for almost a year now, and almost unsubscribed given the recent decline in signal-to-noise ratio, but since we are now discussing the merits of an actual G&S opera (and given that I have more time now that I'm away from school and settled in at my job for the next six months) I thought this might be a good time to start posting again, in the defence of The Grand Duke. I happen to like GD a lot, or at least the music to it. I may be one of the few here who would think that, IMO, the music in GD is second only to Yeomen in the canon, with Sorcerer also up there somewhere. The musical complexity and chromaticism in GD is uncommon in the rest of the canon except perhaps in the Sorcerer, after which Sullivan seemed to rely on more simple chord progressions and oom-pah orchestrations (I've played second violin in Pinafore and Ruddigore--neither experience was terribly exciting though Ruddigore did have some interesting moments). Look at the Notary's song in act I (the one where he describes the statutory duel) and the quintets that follow it--"Strange the views..." is, IMO, one of the best small-ensemble numbers in the canon. To answer the question, why isn't it more popular--I would have to agree there is an unfair stigma attached to GD. At least, my experience in my own performing group (MITG&SP) has been that there are several people whose opinions carry a lot of weight within the group who know next to nothing about the show say that it "sucks" anyway, even though they can't hum a single song from it. There are others who have heard the music and are really psyched to do GD, or at least read through it. But in general people aren't willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and even check it out, much less stake a four-digit production budget to it just by the virtue of the fact that it "failed." (FYI: Last time MIT performed GD, we turned a modest profit.) The large cast also poses a problem for many amateur groups. I was skeptical myself when I bought the CD set (which I had to mail-order from Canada since I couldn't find it anywhere in the States). But I was quite pleasantly surprised. Perhaps if the CD included dialogue I would be more inclined to not like it. And, in all fairness, it is big and clunky--the speeches in the dialogue are just too long. And at times the lyrics can be somewhat nauseating, particularly in the opening numbers. But, plotwise, I found it easier to follow than Utopia--strip away a lot of the dated details, such as whomever Gilbert was annoyed with in a particular week, and you have a delightful story of how a comic baritone ends up betrothed to four women in twenty-four hours. To respond to the question of which songs, if any, from GD could bring down the house if done well--I would say that the Roulette song has this potential, as does the rollicking Ludwig/Countess/chorus song in the second act, and Julia's "melodramatic" number in Act 2. If the leads are all good musicians, "Strange the Views" could also have a lot of potential. I have never seen GD performed on stage. But I would love to see a good production of it, with judicious cuts. I would hate to cut any of the music, except perhaps some of the places where the first act finale drags a little bit. The dialog could use to be trimmed a little bit, but I think it can be done--a good director with an eye for these things could have a wonderful production. I look forward to either seeing or being part of such a production some day. Sincerely, Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Schneider bschneid@mit.edu 19 Farmview Rd. http://web.mit.edu/bschneid/www Wappingers Falls, NY 12590 IBM T.J. Watson Research Center 914-485-3825 Office: H2-K13, 914-784-7547  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07356; Tue, 16 Jun 98 14:34:34 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13935; Tue, 16 Jun 98 14:34:22 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA22696; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806161823.TAA07031@mailhost.dircon.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: lolly@dircon.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Lolly" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Mendes-Barry vs Miller: A trial by jury Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: lolly@dircon.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Lolly" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Mendes-Barry vs Miller: A trial by jury Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 with apologies to Rica and Bruce - no offence meant at all ++++++++++++ Hark, the emails now arriving Bruce and Rica's bouts are thriving All are thrusting, none conniving Breathing bursts of fire For to-day with No appendice Click the mouse on 'get and send' is to the Miller-Rica Mendes Quarrel to inspire ++++++++++++++ When first my old, old mailbox filled My bosom welled with joy; Such riches from the net thus spilled I was a pop'lar boy! In terms almost extravagant On Race and jew and goy And Gilbert groupies sycophant, I felt a pop'lar boy Pick a spam pick a spam pick a spam .... But cross-words may pall the net And angry missives cloy, And repetition makes upset A once most pop'lar boy With fitful glimmer flamed the net, The Net of the Savoy, At last, one of them quit in fret farewell once pop'lar boy Flick a flame flick a flame flick a flame ... +++++++++++++++ With a sense of being harried She approached this member list; For sweet Rica Mendes Barry'd Felt remarkably off-piste Now she'd finally arrive at Ways of sending emails Private Laurence Phillips (please don't hate me R and B)  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16555; Tue, 16 Jun 98 17:00:50 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15346; Tue, 16 Jun 98 17:00:46 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA25043; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806162050.VAA17227@mailhost.dircon.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: lolly@dircon.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Lolly" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: That trial by jury THE FINALE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: lolly@dircon.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Lolly" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: That trial by jury THE FINALE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 I forgot the end bit:( AND WE NEEDED A DUET ANYWAY) In the reign of Liz the second it was generally reckoned As a rather serious crime To harry newsgroups all the time PLAINTIFF (flaming him with modified rupture) I flame him--I blame him--with fervour unceasing His emails I ever deplore My sheer irritation is ever increasing, With capital letters I ROAR. Oh, see what a teasing, what mailings unpleasing I've binned, and remember it, pray, When he I'm addressing, and busy assessing The damage Savoynet must pay--- Yes, we must pay! DEFENDANT (inflaming by return) I send my opinions to experts and minions, On this and on that, which and what; Tho' some bin my missive, my comments dismissive, Am I such a very bad lot? I'm not re-processing, as you may be guessing, She couldn't endure me a day! Recall 'Group' addressing, when you are assessing The damage Savoynet must pay! Yes, we must pay! (then all savOYnet has a transatlantic group hug and we go back to being picky picky over grand duke and obscure bab ballads .. and A Good Job TOO (CURTAIN) Laurence with love and affection in interesting times  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16868; Tue, 16 Jun 98 17:02:01 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15650; Tue, 16 Jun 98 17:01:57 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA25251; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: sharkli@netlink.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Helga Perry To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Mendes-Barry vs Miller: A trial by jury Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 In-Reply-To: <199806161823.TAA07031@mailhost.dircon.co.uk> *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: sharkli@netlink.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Helga Perry To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Mendes-Barry vs Miller: A trial by jury Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 In-Reply-To: <199806161823.TAA07031@mailhost.dircon.co.uk> In article <199806161823.TAA07031@mailhost.dircon.co.uk>, Lolly writes > > >with apologies to Rica and Bruce - no offence meant at all > >++++++++++++ okay, it's a bit out of sequence but... The Learned Judge (played by Andrew Solavay): Let's make a parody, my friends, and - - laugh! Counsel for the Plaintiff (played by Janice Dallas): With all respect, I do object! Plaintiff (Rica): I do object! Defendant (played by the villainous, moustache twirling Bruce) (with an evil twinkle in his eye) I don't object! Helga Perry sharkli@netlink.co.uk *********************************************** BRAIN: "Are you pondering what I'm pondering?" PINKY: "I think so, Brain, but I can't memorize a whole opera in Yiddish!"  1, answered,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25467; Wed, 17 Jun 98 21:22:54 EDT Received: from ml.media.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11819; Wed, 17 Jun 98 21:22:50 EDT Received: (from jofish@localhost) by ml.media.mit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13293; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: lame question... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199806011813.OAA28074@charon.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: lame question... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199806011813.OAA28074@charon.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII How about I order three more from you? I'm away from Friday evening for two weeks but I can send you a check if you want for whatever the price of the duplicated tapes + shipping is. thanks jofish On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, David C. Jedlinsky wrote: > > Jofish, > > It's probably better for you to handle ordering the tapes from me. > The reason for this is that my cost for each copy is $7.00, but you > probably want to charge the $18.00 that everyone else is paying. This > way, you can feed $11 back to the department, since they covered the > shortage, and would appreciate a kickback. Also, since you are close > to campus, it would be easier for you to arrange delivery. > > If you really want, I will handle things directly, under the following > conditions. Anyone who wants a copy will send me a check (made out to > "IPNH") for $21.00 ($18.00 + $3.00 shipping and handling). I also > need the address of where to send the tape. Upon receiving the check, > I will make a copy of the show, and mail it out. I will then send you > a check for $11 for each tape handled in this fashion. I'll need to > know who to make that check out to, of course. > > Checks can be mailed to: > > IPNH > 4 Foster Road > Milford, NH 03055-3604 > > -Dave >  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16318; Thu, 18 Jun 98 19:29:17 EDT Received: from CHARON.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20323; Thu, 18 Jun 98 19:29:17 EDT Received: (from opus@localhost) by charon.MIT.EDU (8.7.6/2.3JIK) id TAA15093; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:29:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:29:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199806182329.TAA15093@charon.MIT.EDU> From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" In-Reply-To: Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye's message of Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: lame question... (fwd) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:29:23 -0400 From: "David C. Jedlinsky" To: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" In-Reply-To: Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye's message of Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: lame question... (fwd) >How about I order three more from you? I'm away from Friday evening >for two weeks but I can send you a check if you want for whatever the >price of the duplicated tapes + shipping is. I will make three tapes. If you'd rather arange a time to meet me or Ruth to get them directly, there will be no shipping charge, so $21 would cover the three. If, on the other hand, you'd like to find them ready and waiting for you when you get back, send $30 and a mailing address, and I'll ship them out. -Dave Jedlinsky opus@mit.edu  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00965; Fri, 19 Jun 98 16:09:39 EDT Received: from ml.media.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14894; Fri, 19 Jun 98 16:09:39 EDT Received: (from jofish@localhost) by ml.media.mit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA31561; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: lame question... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199806182329.TAA15093@charon.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph 'Jofish' Kaye" X-Sender: jofish@ml.media.mit.edu To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: lame question... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199806182329.TAA15093@charon.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm happy to do either. If either you are ever around the media lab or tep/newbury st. then dropping them off would be great, if not then we cna od shipping. jofish On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, David C. Jedlinsky wrote: > > >How about I order three more from you? I'm away from Friday evening > >for two weeks but I can send you a check if you want for whatever the > >price of the duplicated tapes + shipping is. > > I will make three tapes. If you'd rather arange a time to meet me or > Ruth to get them directly, there will be no shipping charge, so $21 > would cover the three. > > If, on the other hand, you'd like to find them ready and waiting for > you when you get back, send $30 and a mailing address, and I'll ship > them out. > > -Dave Jedlinsky > opus@mit.edu >  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13499; Mon, 22 Jun 98 15:06:29 EDT Received: from emu.lcs.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07915; Mon, 22 Jun 98 15:06:24 EDT Received: by emu.LCS.MIT.EDU (8.8.8/4.7) id PAA29733; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806221906.PAA29733@emu.LCS.MIT.EDU> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Sean M Maguire , shoolihn@MIT.EDU, scruffy@MIT.EDU, jmuelmen@MIT.EDU, bilge@MIT.EDU Cc: windowmanagers@MIT.EDU, cfyi@MIT.EDU, sipb-office@MIT.EDU, yoav@MIT.EDU Subject: AfterStep problems In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:57:21 EDT." <199806221357.JAA12132@bassas.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:06:21 EDT From: Yoav Yerushalmi *** EOOH *** X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Sean M Maguire , shoolihn@MIT.EDU, scruffy@MIT.EDU, jmuelmen@MIT.EDU, bilge@MIT.EDU Cc: windowmanagers@MIT.EDU, cfyi@MIT.EDU, sipb-office@MIT.EDU, yoav@MIT.EDU Subject: AfterStep problems In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:57:21 EDT." <199806221357.JAA12132@bassas.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:06:21 EDT From: Yoav Yerushalmi Hello, first of all, I should apologize to you guys (and the people on -i help and the many others who probably will discover this problem soon). I was under the impression only a few people were using it and that of those, and I was somewhat incorrect. I recently upgraded afterstep to their 'current' version, which is 1.4, and which is quite different from 1.0, in the hopes of dealing with some of the more annoying problems with it. Unfortunately, anyone who has configured afterstep will discover that the backwards compatibility is NOT perfect, and in fact sucked. (the real version installed is 1.4.5.5 btw). so, first of all, I'm trying to install afterstep-old as the 1.0 version until people can upgrade their stuff. However, this is a TEMPORARY measure, and WILL go away soon, so please don't rely on it. NEXT, and more importantly, is 'how to upgrade'. the first thing to note is that your ~/.steprc file, if it is there, is no longer the right way to configure afterstep. rename it to some backup file. the next thing to do is to decide whether you actually like afterstep enough that you will not use windowmaker. (I strongly reccomend windowmaker over afterstep right now -- they look much the same, but one is a much nicer piece of code). if you prefer windowmaker, just switch. If you'd rather stick to afterstep, put files in ~/GNUstep/Library/AfterStep/ model them after files in /mit/windowmanagers/share/afterstep/ also, you might wish to read the documentation in http://www.afterstep.org/www.afterstep.org/help.html which will describe (in a hard to follow manner) how to configure afterstep. Finally, if you have any suggestions for stuff to be added to the global files, I'd be happy to receive and integrate them. -- yoav ------------------------------------------------------------ | Yoav Yerushalmi | My opinions are mine.. | | M.I.T student at large | (I hope.. don't sue) | | http://www.mit.edu/people/yoav/homepage.html | ------------------------------------------------------------  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21959; Tue, 23 Jun 98 04:07:09 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06404; Tue, 23 Jun 98 04:07:07 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA28059; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 04:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 04:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980622213730.3c37b064@pop.brad.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Individualistic choruses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 04:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: a.j.crowther@Bradford.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Individualistic choruses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) At 10:39 AM 6/22/98 -0400, NickTenor wrote: > [...] our producer had the >bright idea of giving everyone in the chorus a "character", and told them to >remember who and what they were supposed to be at all times. [...] >Several people who came to see the show said that their attention was at times >focused on various chorus members when the central action should have demanded >more of their attention. It's difficult to ignore someone turning cartwheels, >I guess. > There's a piece of advice for the playing of comedy which I've seen given by two consummate "gagmeisters": Jerry Zucker of the Airplane/Naked Gun films, and the great cartoon director Tex Avery. The advice is very simple and practical: don't have two funny things going on at the same time. If you want your audience to concentrate on something funny happening to one character, don't distract them with the antics of another character. This seems to be allied to something I read in a book by the Italian dramatist/director/mime/Nobel Prize winner Dario Fo, about manipulating the audience's focus of attention. In _The Tricks of the Trade_ (translated by Joe Farrell - London: Methuen Drama, 1991) he describes one of his stage mime acts thus: "While performing _The Starving Zanni_, I create a wide space about myself, allowing my whole body to be kept in view. At a certain point, this body is, as it were, forgotten, insofar as I deliberately freeze the lower half, thereby eliminating all interest in it, and I induce the audience to do a close-up of my face alone. My gestures are limited to a circumference of no more than thirty centimetres and are never allowed to stray outside that imaginary framework, because this would lead to a loss of concentration on the part of the spectator.... The progression, which is obviously calculated, must be executed with the utmost precision...." [p45] These three seem odd bedfellows, though they do share a professional mastery of comic effect. Their advice seems to me absolutely right. Heaven knows, I've sat through enough G&S productions where a joke in the dialogue has been completely killed because of an attempt by the character to do something funny at the same time, or an attempt by another character to upstage. - Andrew. Andrew Crowther 82 the Avenue, A.J.Crowther@bradford.ac.uk Clayton, Bradford, (01274) 882143 West Yorkshire BD14 6RT. Great Britain. Visit Babliophile, my W.S. Gilbert page, at: http://www.student.brad.ac.uk/ajcrowth/babphile.htm "...what is hailed as a new style or a new school in literature often consists of doing as a novelty what a Victorian did long ago as a joke." - G.K. Chesterton, "On Phases of Eccentricity", in _All I Survey_ (1933)  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02247; Wed, 24 Jun 98 19:55:35 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20423; Wed, 24 Jun 98 19:55:32 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA29462; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: BMILLER@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Sullivan's trip to California (Re: Buffaloes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: BMILLER@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Sullivan's trip to California (Re: Buffaloes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 >Would that be a cow chip shop? This brings to mind Sullivan's famous comment in a letter written while traveling by train from New York to California in 1885, "I wish I could see a buffalo." What is less well known that, on this trip, at a dusty Western rest stop, AS came upon a cowboy strumming on a guitar, singing. Entranced by the music, he quickly grabbed the nearest napkin and recorded both the words and music of the song, evidently in an early variant. Here are the first words: Oh, give me a home Where the buffalo roam, And I'll show you a house full of chips... Now, the early biographers cleaned this up into the form we with which we are all familiar, and there are some of us who have spent years - years! - setting the record straight. Caryll Brahms even had the audacity to suggest that the whole thing was just crap, but of course we know better. Bruce I. Miller bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02698; Fri, 26 Jun 98 20:43:06 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14324; Fri, 26 Jun 98 20:43:05 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA17197; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <19980626.173503.16230.1.KNScott@juno.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: knscott@juno.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: knscott@juno.com (Kevin N Scott) To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Cross-topic: "The Method", blonds, sopranos X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: knscott@juno.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: knscott@juno.com (Kevin N Scott) To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Cross-topic: "The Method", blonds, sopranos X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 Some friends of mine who rented out rehearsal studio space had a very successful client, a charlatan/guru type who conducted an "acting" workshop for would-be soap stars. His stock in trade was the sort of self-indulgence that makes some call "the Method" the American perversion of Stanislavski. One of my friends referred to them all, actors and teacher, as "the blond leading the blond". WARNING! The following old soprano joke, which I think I heard from the same friend, depends on an implied off-color Spoonerism: The difference between a seamstress and a coloratura? A seamstress frills and tucks. Kevin N. Scott KNScott@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Stage/2507 "Historical accuracy, in and of itself, is NOT a theatrical value." -- Charles Ludlum _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11990; Sun, 28 Jun 98 09:52:48 EDT Received: from jtk.ne.mediaone.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06330; Sun, 28 Jun 98 09:52:41 EDT Received: (from jtk@localhost) by kolvir.arlington.ma.us (8.8.8/JTK19980409) id JAA26092; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 09:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 09:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806281352.JAA26092@kolvir.arlington.ma.us> From: John Kohl To: jtk@kolvir.arlington.ma.us Subject: zip code change X-Us-Snail: 8 Lorne Road, Arlington, MA 02476 *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 09:52:35 -0400 (EDT) From: John Kohl To: jtk@kolvir.arlington.ma.us Subject: zip code change X-Us-Snail: 8 Lorne Road, Arlington, MA 02476 As of July 1st, my home zip code is changing. It used to be 02174, now it will be 02476. Please update your records. For full details on other Arlington addresses, see the web page http://gseweb.harvard.edu/TIEWeb/STUDENTS/DOCTORAL/schlicpa/zip.html [this message is blind carbon-copied to lots of folks; don't worry if you're not on the to: list] Thanks! -- ==John Kohl , Write a poem, share your heart! Home page:  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18243; Tue, 30 Jun 98 15:17:58 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21326; Tue, 30 Jun 98 15:17:53 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA02780; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806301913.PAA11770@p2.acadia.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: ihodgkin@acadia.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Irv Hodgkin To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: "Amy's Book: London to Los Angeles" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: ihodgkin@acadia.net Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Irv Hodgkin To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: "Amy's Book: London to Los Angeles" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 I recently had some private correspondence from Jen Johnson (Frederic Sullivan's descendant) announcing that her Grandfather, Jim Lacy Smith, had completed the publication of the book he has edited, entitled: "'Amy's Book' London-Los Angeles 1866-1886" by Amy Sullivan Stephens. Quoting Jim, "It is Amy Sophia's reflections as a child and young woman, and her association with her 'Uncle Arthur' ". As indicated below, Jen is offering copies of the book to S'Netters for $8.50. Anyone interested should contact her directly. Message from Jen Johnson: >Here's what's going on with the book: he's sending me a box of about 20 >copies that will be sold to anyone on S'net who would like a copy ($8.50 >each, that includes S&H). If you know of anyone else who would like a copy, go >ahead and tell them to send me snail mail only, a check or money order >(US$only), along with their name, address, tel#, and the number of copies they >would like. >I'm so excited about it! Grandpa was saying that he was dying to finish it >since the project was starting to wear on him (I bet!) --Irv (aka King Gama) "I love my fellow creatures - I do all the good I can- Yet ev'rybody says I'm such a disagreeable man! And I can't think why!" Performing "Princess Ida" Summer Reprise in Ellsworth on July 9-11th! GSSHC Hancock County, Maine IHodgkin@acadia.net [Note new address]  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10825; Tue, 30 Jun 98 16:48:25 EDT Received: from martigny.ai.mit.edu by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13435; Tue, 30 Jun 98 16:48:20 EDT Received: from exchange0.avicenna.com (exchange.avicenna.com [208.217.116.135] (may be forged)) by martigny.ai.mit.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA26539 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by exchange0 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:47:36 -0400 Message-Id: <41DBCB20F777D111B5AB006008948DB33D354F@exchange0> From: Sharon Chang To: "'lsc-alums@martigny.ai.mit.edu'" Subject: New ZIP code Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:47:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain *** EOOH *** From: Sharon Chang To: "'lsc-alums@martigny.ai.mit.edu'" Subject: New ZIP code Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:47:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain For those who still keep snail mail address books, Jamey and I have a new home ZIP code as of tomorrow. 02459 (new ZIP) replaces 02159 (old ZIP). More details regarding rationale and towns affected are available at http://www.boston.com/news/daily/30/zipcodes.htm Sharon  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07465; Tue, 30 Jun 98 19:20:03 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09459; Tue, 30 Jun 98 19:20:03 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA06876; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: sharkli@netlink.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Helga Perry To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: (sort of off topic) with apologies to Kipling ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id TAA06876 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 19:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: sharkli@netlink.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Helga Perry To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: (sort of off topic) with apologies to Kipling ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id TAA06876 Just clearing out some old files and found this, which I wrote in 1995. WHEN (not If) by HJ Perry=20 with apologies to Kipling (who makes exceedingly good poems) When you can keep your place if all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, When you can beat in three if others doubt you And say this really ought to be in two; When you can make the strings lay bets on whether You=92ll bring the lead soprano in too soon, When band and chorus are not quite together And lose all sense of rhythm, time and tune: When you can play the presto even faster And make the tuned percussion take the blame; When you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And get bad intonation all the same. When you ensure that just the front desks hear you Announce the cuts and changes to be made, And when you have to make your meaning clear, you Forget to tell them which repeats are played: When to your ears bad tuning is a virtue And double woodwind sounds like double-Dutch, Nor critics nor well-meaning friends can hurt you, When all can count with you, but none too much; When each staccato crotchet fills a minute, And every night the show has overrun, Yours is the Pit and everything that=92s in it, And - what is more - you=92ll be M.D., my son!=20 Helga Perry sharkli@netlink.co.uk *********************************************** BRAIN: "Are you pondering what I'm pondering?" PINKY: "I think so, Brain, but I can't memorize a whole opera in Yiddish!= "  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02983; Tue, 7 Jul 98 14:15:26 EDT Received: from BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26135; Tue, 7 Jul 98 14:11:23 EDT Received: by biohazard-cafe.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id OAA23726; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807071810.OAA23726@biohazard-cafe.MIT.EDU> From: Rich Carreiro To: lots-o-people-who-might-care@MIT.EDU Subject: Area and ZIP codes update *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:10:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Rich Carreiro To: lots-o-people-who-might-care@MIT.EDU Subject: Area and ZIP codes update Despite not moving an inch in the past 21 months, we have a new area code and a new ZIP code, so I wanted to make sure people are up-to-date. I'm also taking this opportunity to provide this update (for better or worse :-) to people I haven't talked to in quite some time. I finally note that this has been sent to a fairly Rich-centric set of addresses. I'll leave it to Jenifer to do something similar herself :-) Rich Carreiro Jenifer Tidwell 211 Forest Street Arlington, MA 02474-8906 781-646-8500 Rich Carreiro ARPA: rlcarr@mit.edu UUCP: ...!mit.edu!rlcarr BITNET: rlcarr%mit.edu@mitvma.edu  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26823; Wed, 8 Jul 98 16:50:51 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25039; Wed, 8 Jul 98 16:50:53 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA01927; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <000201bdaab0$eaab41e0$bc8856d1@default> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: flavilla@mindspring.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Pamella Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Off-Topic: Found a Job! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: flavilla@mindspring.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Pamella Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Off-Topic: Found a Job! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 To the many Savoynetters who kindly responded to my request for job contacts a few months ago.... Huzzah! Huzzah! I have found a job, and will be starting as Director of Special Events at the Big Apple Circus next Monday. Not quite G&S, but still very much performing arts related.... Thank you! Thank you! Pam Miller  1, answered,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00242; Sun, 12 Jul 98 14:50:01 EDT Received: from bos1d.delphi.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25836; Sun, 12 Jul 98 14:50:03 EDT Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839) id <01IZBEXN1Y3K902JI5@delphi.com> for opus@mit.edu; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:45:17 EDT Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:45:17 -0400 (EDT) From: JEANJAY@delphi.com Subject: Ruddigore To: opus@MIT.EDU Message-Id: <01IZBEXN27R6902JI5@delphi.com> X-Vms-To: INTERNET"opus@mit.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:45:17 -0400 (EDT) From: JEANJAY@delphi.com Subject: Ruddigore To: opus@MIT.EDU X-Vms-To: INTERNET"opus@mit.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Dear Dave, I know I should've asked this long ago, but-- Is there any possibility at all of replacing the audio on my conducting tape with the audio you got from the stage mikes? The orchestra does sound pretty dreadful on the conducting tape, as I believe you warned me it might. I've finally got a job lead for which a really *good* tape might help. Best, Jay *** Jay Lane jeanjay@delphi.com ***  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19813; Mon, 13 Jul 98 03:13:14 EDT Received: from [147.138.10.40] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28814; Mon, 13 Jul 98 03:13:16 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id DAA13756; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 03:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 03:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: Pmeason@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Pmeason@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Augmented Seconds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 165 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 03:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Pmeason@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Pmeason@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Augmented Seconds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 165 Over the weekend I dug out my Colloege notes and they can be summarised something like this. 4ths 5ths unisons and octaves and their extensions are perfect others are not. Taking the scale of C major as a base C-D C-E C-E C-B are all major. When a major or perfect interval is widened by a semitone it becomes augmented. When a minor or perfect interval is narrowed by a semitone it becomes diminsihed. Thus C-E = Major 3rd C-Eb = Minor 3rd C-Ebb = Diminished 3rd. C-D = Major Second C-D# = Augmented second C-F = Perfect 4th C-Fb = Diminshed 4th C-F# = Augmented 4th My notes then go on to talk about double diminished and double augmented intervals, but that starts to get somewhat theoretical. I did find the augmented 2nd argument discussed and it went something like this. The minor 3rd C-Eb and the augmented 2nd C-D# will of course sound identical when played out of context on the piano. The difference in harmonic feel can be appreciated if you contrast a scale of C minor, where the notes in question fall on the 1st and 3rd notes of the scale, with one of E harmonic minor, where the notes fall on the 6th and 7th notes of the scale. These intervals feel different, and on an instrument where the player is in control of the pitch eg the violin, would be payed differently. The correct naming of notes and intervals is more than academic persifalge (my tutors words - not mine). It is the basis for a full understanding of the structure of harmony (continues ....). Peter Meason Organist, St Andrew's United Reformed Church, Cheltenham, UK Accompanist, Cotswold Savoyards, Charlton Kings Choral Society, Cheltenham, UK Pmeason@aol.com http://members.aol.com/pmeason  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23372; Mon, 13 Jul 98 04:43:19 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13001; Mon, 13 Jul 98 04:43:04 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA14464; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 04:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 04:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <169d2737.35a9c7a6@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: Pmeason@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Pmeason@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Augmented Seconds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 165 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 04:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Pmeason@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Pmeason@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Augmented Seconds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 165 Correction to typing error Taking the scale of C major as a base C-D C-E C-A C-B are all major.  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24687; Tue, 14 Jul 98 18:43:10 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24256; Tue, 14 Jul 98 18:42:54 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA16944; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807142231.SAA06585@Pluto.bridgewater.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: alex@diamond.idbsu.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Alex Feldman To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: copyright X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: alex@diamond.idbsu.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Alex Feldman To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: copyright X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum For anyone who is interested, the Berne Convention (1971) can be found at http://www.law.cornell.edu/treaties/berne/overview.html As I understand it, in spite of attempts to bring US law into compliance with the Berne Convention, many differences still exist, but I know of no URL where these can be found. There is an introduction to copyright, and some interesting case histories, at http://www.benedict.com but most of what it says about the law is at odds with the Berne Convention (or at least with the online one mentioned above...). There is also an electronic mailing list concerning copyright... I think our fearless leader (Ralph) is even a member.  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28612; Tue, 14 Jul 98 19:12:19 EDT Received: from smtp3.erols.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09549; Tue, 14 Jul 98 19:12:22 EDT Received: from user (207-172-241-28.s28.as5.bsd.erols.com [207.172.241.28]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA12137; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35ABE5D0.2950@erols.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:12:16 -0400 From: Todd Long Reply-To: toddlong@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-DH397 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Marion Leeds Carroll Cc: aallen@welchs.com, sara@sb.org, klb@cybercom.net, becca@altavista.net, lissa@world.std.com, GAMAREX@aol.com, Jmkrain@aol.com, Carl_Weggel@msn.com, P_Wilner@bostonbbs.org, mark_woodruff@htrans.com, Jellicoe@aol.com, opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Rockville Travel - Answer Desired! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:12:16 -0400 From: Todd Long Reply-To: toddlong@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-DH397 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Marion Leeds Carroll Cc: aallen@welchs.com, sara@sb.org, klb@cybercom.net, becca@altavista.net, lissa@world.std.com, GAMAREX@aol.com, Jmkrain@aol.com, Carl_Weggel@msn.com, P_Wilner@bostonbbs.org, mark_woodruff@htrans.com, Jellicoe@aol.com, opus@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Rockville Travel - Answer Desired! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all from the Longs, (Todd, Aroostine, and Katie). As was indicated in the earlier e-mail, we just moved to the Boston area from the Washington area and have all performed with VLOC before (even our five year old Katie). FYI, The Rockville theater is very nice and any hotel along the Rockville Pike would be close (although we will probably stay with family). As for getting there, we are up for any and all of the earlier suggestions, professional bus, drive your own bus/van, or the group rate from Logan. If we drive, we would prefer to make it a four day trip however. As we see it, anything will still be cheaper and easier than going it alone. FYI, if we drive, it probably will only take 8-9 hours (having just done it in May to get up here). You take I-95 most of the way. If anyone has any other questions about VLOC and/or the Rockville and greater DC area, please feel free to contact us (toddlong@erols.com or 781-769-0942). Thanks, Todd, Aroostine, and Katie  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11558; Wed, 15 Jul 98 19:17:51 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23756; Wed, 15 Jul 98 19:17:34 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA06520; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3d12e376.35ad3812@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: GpaAndSon@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: GpaAndSon@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Off, Off, Off Topic: A Stress Diet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: GpaAndSon@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: GpaAndSon@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Off, Off, Off Topic: A Stress Diet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 At sometime or the other most of the netters will experience a stressful moment or two or longer; brought on by something trifle, or some event of long standing duration. . There are many ways to overcome this period of stress and one of the ways is by dieting. Nutritionists have discovered that some foods can aid in reducing stress; and by use of the following diet you too can avoid or reduce stress that may occur at any given moment. DIETING UNDER STRESS (Designed to help you cope with the stress that builds up during the day) BREAKFAST 1/2 grapefruit 1 slice wholewheat toast 3 oz skimmed milk LUNCH 4 oz chicken 1 cup spinach 1 cup herbal tea, (any flavor) 1 chocolate chip cookie MID-AFTERNOON SNACK Rest of the cookies in the box 2 quarts of chocolate chip ice cream 1 bottle hot fudge sauce Nuts, cherries and fresh cream DINNER 2 loaves of garlic bread with cheese 1 large deep-pan pepperoni pizza 2 quart bottle of any soft drink (not "diet") 3 chocolate bars (any variety and size) LATE-EVENING SNACK Entire Black Forest Geteau (eaten directly from the freezer) RULES FOR COUNTING CALORIES 1. If you eat something and nobody sees, it has no calories; 2. Broken biscuits have no calories - they have leaked out; 3. Things licked off knives or spoons have no calories; 4. Medicinal foods do not count - e. g. Sarah Lee Cheesecake; 5. If you have a Mars Bar and a "Diet" soft drink, the calories cancel each other out; 6. Foods of the same color have the same number of calories: e.g. mushrooms and white chocolate: Spinach and pistachio ice cream; N. B. Chocolate is an universal food colorer and therefore can be used to substitute for any other food colorer. 'BON APPETIT' Louis Titusville, FL., USA The grandpa in GpaAnd Son  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05919; Wed, 15 Jul 98 23:10:29 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27291; Wed, 15 Jul 98 23:10:32 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA09657; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <018c01bdb065$fe68abe0$b38056d1@default> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: flavilla@mindspring.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Pamella Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Off Topic: Ringmaster Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: flavilla@mindspring.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Pamella Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Off Topic: Ringmaster Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 A few days ago I thanked Savoynet for their (it's?) support as I sought a new job, which I have now found at the Big Apple Circus. Some nice person responded, and asked if I knew of a famous British ringmaster named Norman Barrett, recently touring in the USA. He will, in fact, be the ringmaster of our show next year. The theme is "Happy On!" a retrospective of British and European Vaudeville, Burlesque, Music Hall (does that include G&S???), and of course, Circus! Will that same kind person identify himself again to me? I'd be happy to pass on a message to Mr. Barret, if needed. "Happy On!" by the way, is an old vaudeville term for "Happy On! Happy Off!" which means if you're happy on the stage, you'll be happy off the stage. A true dictum indeed. Pam.  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13233; Thu, 16 Jul 98 16:05:28 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03212; Thu, 16 Jul 98 14:53:42 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA21713; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: BMILLER@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: "Amy's Book: London to Los Angeles" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: BMILLER@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: "Amy's Book: London to Los Angeles" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 My copy of "Amy's Book" has just arrived. It's full of details concerning the Sullivan family which are not generally available elsewhere. One needs to take into consideration the fact that these were written down decades after the events took place, and thus subject to the tricks memory can play. Thus it is with a grain of salt that one takes her account of the opening night of Iolanthe at the Savoy theater, in which she and members of her family sat in the "composer's box." It is related that they were "...the object of all eyes as Uncle Arthur sat with us." The composer conducted that performance so it is unlikely that the sat with them at all that evening - but it is possible that he sat with them on some other evening at the theater. There is an extradorinary passage in which she relates her father's (Frederic Sullivan's) final illness, in which she describes him actively involved in the composition of The Lost Chord - discussing it with his brother Arthur and even offering constructive criticism! The composer is supposed to have adopted some of the suggestions, and he played it through for his brother while Frederic's wife sang it. This is far from the standard version which has come down to us about the writing of the song - less romanticized, more domestic. She also describes the opening night of Trial by Jury, at which her father was in a dither because he had forgotten to bring his white gloves (needed as part of his Judge's costume) to the theater. (They were borrowed from a Bobby just outside the theater). This book is not one which will be of interest to the general public - but certainly will be to those who want to know all they can about Arthur Sullivan. Bruce I. Miller bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13333; Thu, 16 Jul 98 22:14:05 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09557; Thu, 16 Jul 98 22:14:08 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA29539; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35ADFABA.3281@netspace.net.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: deebee@netspace.net.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Diana Burleigh To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: re. Auditions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: deebee@netspace.net.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Diana Burleigh To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: re. Auditions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Ori wrote: > > First of all, it is highly unlikely that you will have two candidates who > are so equal that you need "tie breakers." "Equal" is not exactly the word I would use. It is often difficult to decide between people and there are more considerations than just raw talent. An example that befell me long years ago might illustrate. The production was Ida and we had a lot of people going for Gama. Three stood out, all valuable members of the society. One was elderly, probably passed his peak but still capable of turning in a reasonable performance. Age was not on his side and if he didn't get this role he might never get another and he was a well-known, liked and respected performer. The second was a younger man of limited talent who had put many years work into chorus, small parts and the occasional lead; a reliable and faithful member of the company, who would be more than adequate in the role. The third a hansome young man who had only recently been cast in patter roles but had been superb as Bunthorne and Robin and who I had found to be on my wavelength so that we were able to work exceptionally well and creatively together. His vocal ability was OK for a patter man. We had to decide between them on what was best for the production, the company and be fair to loyal and hardworking members. In the end the old chap was rejected (and never did another role, he died a few years later), the second was cast as Gama and the third as Florian and he looked and acted the role well enough for most of the audience not to notice his singing was a bit less than it should have been. He also made a good "fit" with the Cyril and Hilarion we had chosen. Others audition teams may have chosen differently and I had a sleepless night or two over it but we came up with the best decision we could. On another occasion the best audition for Ludwig, The Grand Duke and The Prince of Monte Carlo were all given by the same singer! Now that's a problem of a different colour. Maureen Roult wrote: > > This may be in large part because VLOC hires directors on a one-show basis. The one-off director does pose a different problem. Firstly s/he may not know the company and is not aware that X is a brilliant performer who does not audition well, but trust him, he'll come up with the goods. The one-off director will be primarily interested in THIS production and may not take the longer-term view that if younger people are not given a chance they will never have the experience to be cast in major parts and the show will be filled only with the tried and true. OTOH pressures can be put on such a director (I know) "if you cast Y, it means we get his wife as accompanist at principal rehearsals, etc) Diana  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23421; Fri, 17 Jul 98 06:32:04 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25444; Fri, 17 Jul 98 06:32:07 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA04911; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: enl069@abdn.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Derrick McClure" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Sympathy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Simeon for Windows Version 4.0.9 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 06:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: enl069@abdn.ac.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Derrick McClure" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Sympathy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Simeon for Windows Version 4.0.9 On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:38:43 -0400 (EDT) David Cookson wrote: > Derrick McClure writes < ever being actually used as a pronunciation in ordinary speech; and though > the philological distinction beween the Germanic "-ry" and the French "-ty" > is interesting, it doesn't affect the issue: the distinction has never > affected English pronunciation.>> > > I didn't know this, Derrick. Where did you get this from ? Well, the history of the English language is my professional field, David - it's not always possible to give a single reference to prove a single specific detail. The basic facts pertaining to this case are these. (Netters of a non-philological bent - delete NOW!) 1. At a specific period in the history of English (around Shakespeare's lifetime) the pronunciation of words with the EE sound changed, so that they came to be pronounced with EYE instead. "DIVINE" had been taken into English BEFORE this change, so it has now the EYE sound; "LATRINE" did not become an English word till AFTER the change, so it still has the EE. 2. English words always have a strong stress on one syllable (or more if the word is long enough), French words are evenly stressed on all syllables. Therefore, French words borrowed into English always develop an entirely different rhythm from the one they have in their native language. Now, if you look for "revelry" in the OED you'll see that its first attestation is in Chaucer, and it rhymes with "crie" - i.e. CRY. Chaucer's pronunciation was "revelREE" and "CREE". "CREE" acquired the modern pronunciation CRY, though not till long after Chaucer's time. "RevelREE", however, DIDN'T come to be said as "revelRYE" - because with the English tendency to put a strong stress near the beginning of words, the last syllable was weakened, from a full-scale EE to a short "-y". And that same story applies to many other words ending in unstressed "-y". So that in the nineteenth century, a poet who makes "revelry" rhyme with "fly" is implicitly trying to do something which couldn't have been done since Chaucer's time - when BOTH the words were pronounced differently - i.e. he's either availing himself of the poetic licence to use eye-rhymes or he's using a mispronunciation for a joke. "ArcadY" is likewise a joke, and a more elaborate one because Gilbert uses TWO distorted pronunciations (one more peculiar then the other). OK? Derrick McClure. (A most intense young man, A soulful-eyed young man.)  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07303; Sat, 18 Jul 98 08:04:49 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13165; Sat, 18 Jul 98 08:04:52 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA22781; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <74e9cd80.35b08ea5@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: SHTURNBULL@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: SHTURNBULL@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Scores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Mac sub 34 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: SHTURNBULL@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: SHTURNBULL@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Scores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Mac sub 34 The Savoy Edition (cut down) of Cox and Box is, I think, still in print. The VS of the full version was published in two editions, the first (1869), containing the original setting of Box's lullaby, the second (1871) containing the new, familiar, setting. The second edition also contains the complete text. The first edition is extremely rare (I know of two copies in the UK and guess there must be another three or four in collections); the second, highly uncommon. Strictly a job for dealers, I'm afraid. However, a friend of mine is considering producing a limited edition reprint from his copy of the first edition. Watch this space for details. As to whether Ages Ago was ever published, I do not know. The UK's no. 1 expert on Fred Clay is the baritone Christopher Knowles, who is not, to the best of my knowledge, on the Internet. If anyone would know the whereabouts of a score, he would. Try writing to him at Little Eastall Farmhouse, St. Paul's Walden, Hitchin, Herts. Stephen Turnbull  1, answered,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10046; Sat, 18 Jul 98 18:06:53 EDT Received: from HOME-ON-THE-DOME.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18849; Sat, 18 Jul 98 18:06:34 EDT Received: by home-on-the-dome.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id SAA01136; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 18:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807182206.SAA01136@home-on-the-dome.MIT.EDU> To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: CDs Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 18:06:40 EDT From: CarolYN J Smith *** EOOH *** To: opus@MIT.EDU Subject: CDs Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 18:06:40 EDT From: CarolYN J Smith My mom wants 5 moe CDs. Can you get them to me at some point? --cyn  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14094; Sun, 19 Jul 98 08:15:44 EDT Received: from SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14541; Sun, 19 Jul 98 08:15:48 EDT Received: by scrubbing-bubbles.MIT.EDU (8.8.7/4.7) id IAA01336; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807191215.IAA01336@scrubbing-bubbles.MIT.EDU> To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: CDs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:03:28 EDT." <199807190103.VAA04858@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:15:30 EDT From: CarolYN J Smith *** EOOH *** To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: Re: CDs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:03:28 EDT." <199807190103.VAA04858@charon.MIT.EDU> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:15:30 EDT From: CarolYN J Smith OK, I'll let mom kow it'll be a while... --cyn  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25487; Tue, 21 Jul 98 11:38:19 EDT Received: from bos1b.delphi.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09978; Tue, 21 Jul 98 11:38:22 EDT Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839) id <01IZNSQWEC408Z2048@delphi.com> for opus@mit.edu; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:28:49 EDT Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:28:49 -0400 (EDT) From: JEANJAY@delphi.com Subject: Re: Ruddigore To: opus@MIT.EDU Message-Id: <01IZNSQWELRM8Z2048@delphi.com> X-Vms-To: IN%"opus@mit.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:28:49 -0400 (EDT) From: JEANJAY@delphi.com Subject: Re: Ruddigore To: opus@MIT.EDU X-Vms-To: IN%"opus@mit.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Yes, just the first act finale, from the first upbeat after the previous number through to the applause. Thanks! Jay  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14878; Thu, 23 Jul 98 15:11:31 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29568; Thu, 23 Jul 98 15:11:31 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA03066; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: BMILLER@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Lord Chancellor Question... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: BMILLER@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Lord Chancellor Question... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 >>> David Craven 07/23 1:37 PM wrote: >>> >I have a question. The song in question is "When I went to >the Bar as a very young Man". I performed the song in the >proper 3 on 2 meter, which does give it a somewhat mechanical >sense. Apparently the critic did not like it. While it could have >just been the performance, since she used the work mechanical, >I wonder if she might be referring to the constant eighth note >triple pulse on top of the Orchestra's duple pulse, combined with >the fact that, in my experience, many patter singers turn it into >much more of a dotted duple? The critic may very well not have been aware that you were performing the song accurately, as Sullivan wrote it. Not having been present to hear how you performed it it's difficult to know precisely what she was getting at. The song IS to an extent problematic, because of the rhythmic tension you have described. The trick is to make it sound natural, and this is done by making sure you articulate the words as you would as if speaking them in regular English without regard to the rhythm. Sullivan has set the words is such a way that you can speak them straight ahead and they will work in the rhythm he has given. A good exercise is to speak the words in tempo, in the triple meter, and see if you can make it sound as if you were simply talking to Strephon (in charcater, of course) and telling him your story; then try to get these inflections into the music when you're singing the song. This method is, perhaps, more of a technical solution than strictly an acting one, but it does help IMO to better integrate the acting with the musical aspects of the role. The goal in this particular instance is to avoid giving anyone the impression that there is a technical tour-de-force going on by the actor (and the composer). It would not bother me as director, BTW, if there was an occasional alteration of rhythm, if the actor so made that choice and it helped make the words flow a little better for him. I suspect Sullivan probably would have given Grossmith that leeway as well. It may also help to try to imagine that you are really speaking the words on pitch more than singing them in a melodic way. Bruce I. Miller bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06828; Fri, 24 Jul 98 00:36:37 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07489; Fri, 24 Jul 98 00:36:41 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA25275; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35B80E76.C835613A@ozemail.com.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: exexpats@ozemail.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Paul McShane To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: A note from Sarah Mankowski Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: exexpats@ozemail.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Paul McShane To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: A note from Sarah Mankowski Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Sarah is in the process of changing Websites and Net servers, and has asked that I pass the following changed addresses on to the many SavoyNetters that will be interested: Her new e-mail address is capsaicin@earthlink.net The G&S calendar of events is now at: http://home.earthlink.net/~capsaicin/events.htm The page for CDs and videos is: http://home.earthlink.net/~capsaicin/cds.htm Her G&S page is: http://home.earthlink.net/~capsaicin/gands.html and finally, Sarah's new web page is at: http://home.earthlink.net/~capsaicin/ -- Paul McShane "Steps into the world once more."  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09247; Fri, 24 Jul 98 01:10:05 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07034; Fri, 24 Jul 98 01:09:42 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id BAA26113; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <933a0e84.35b81479@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: LetaHall@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: LetaHall@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Some Good Sing-Out Questions and Answers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: LetaHall@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: LetaHall@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Some Good Sing-Out Questions and Answers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Tamara and I have been corresponding for the past couple of days and she's asked me a couple of questions. Naturally I *can't find* her questions, but here are my answers: What to wear? Generally you are free to what whatever costume or concert dress you would like. We're including in the definition of "concert dress" jeans and really cool show t-shirts. I'll probably wear a dress. The reception is "G&S costume" or "semi-formal." Again, I'll wear a dress. Of course, for the men, dresses would look especially fetching. Savoynet shirts / @ buttons also dress up any occassion, IMO. One last thing I can think of now: Parts are memorized, yes? Not really memorized. You're as on book as you want to be. I intend to be as off-book as possible, largely because if I have my head stuck in the book I sing from note-to-note like a seven-year-old.  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29117; Fri, 24 Jul 98 10:23:31 EDT Received: from MIT.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11992; Fri, 24 Jul 98 10:23:35 EDT Received: from KOJACK.MIT.EDU by MIT.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13080; Fri, 24 Jul 98 10:23:09 EDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <951d1541.35b7d119@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:28:07 -0400 To: GAMAREX@aol.com, Jmkrain@aol.com From: Marion Leeds Carroll Subject: Re: Singout Cc: bmiller@holycross.edu, dcl@ties.org, opus@MIT.EDU *** EOOH *** In-Reply-To: <951d1541.35b7d119@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:28:07 -0400 To: GAMAREX@aol.com, Jmkrain@aol.com From: Marion Leeds Carroll Subject: Re: Singout Cc: bmiller@holycross.edu, dcl@ties.org, opus@MIT.EDU >In a message dated 98-07-23 18:51:36 EDT, you write: > >> i was wondering how to obtain vocal scores of Utopia and Grand Duke. A >> reply less than withering will be appreciated. > In your dreams! > My Utopia is a not-very good Kalmus Vocal Scores #9742, printed by Belwin >Mills Publishing Corp.; I cannot recall where I got it. Possibly on order >from a music store in Boston whose name I don't remember. I thought I had >Grand Duke but cannot find it, so don't know its provenance. I'm forwarding >all this to Marion, in hope that she has the answer, or can point us in the >right direction. > shel h Oh, my... I have rather crummy copies myself, featuring a fair amount of photocpied replacement pages. When I get home I'll take a look to try to figure out where they originally came from (I got them both as gifts) - but I'm forwarding your query to three people who may have an answer: Bruce Miller, David Larrick, and David Jedlinsky. Good luck! - Marion Marion Leeds Carroll MIT Rm 33-111 mlcar@mit.edu Wk: 258-5810 MIT Dept of Aero/Astro Hm: (781) 646-9115 http://web.mit.edu/mlcar/Public/www/mlcarroll.html * There is a fine line between a Rocket Scientist and a Space Cadet*  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05302; Fri, 24 Jul 98 10:46:38 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06314; Fri, 24 Jul 98 10:46:15 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA02389; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: helga@grhlib.demon.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Helga J. Perry" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: auditions: rejection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id KAA02389 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: helga@grhlib.demon.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Helga J. Perry" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: auditions: rejection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id KAA02389 All this talk of audition policy and practice and who accepts whom or what has set me thinking (always dangerous on a Friday afternoon): I have absolutely no time for moaning minnies, cry-babies or prima donnas at any level. Attitude _does_ matter, all the more so in a community endeavour. The use of the epithet "community" invokes team spirit and collaborative effort.=20 What amuses me at the moment is that some people say they don't agree with specifying whether they'll accept chorus parts if they don't get a lead role, yet whinge when they're not subsequently automatically placed in the chorus. You can't have your cake and eat it. I'm sure several on this list remember what I shall euphemistically term the "spirited" discussion on similar lines instigated by a certain Karen Mercedes, bless her little cotton socks.=20 At that time I posted this suggested "standard letter of rejection," which I think deserves a second airing: Little Shark Opera Company Standard Letter Of Rejection DEAR SIR OR MADAM / TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN / OI YOU!=20 [delete as (in)appropriate] I REGRET / AM PLEASED / COULDN'T CARE LESS that you WERE UNSUCCESSFUL / TOTALLY ****ED UP in your audition for the part of .....=20 This role has now been given to THE PRODUCER'S MISTRESS (HUSBAND,MOTHER- IN-LAW) / THE BLOKE WHOSE BOSS SPONSORS OUR COMPANY / THAT OLD BAG WHO COMPLAINS LIKE HELL IF SHE DOESN'T GET TO BE IN AT LEAST 4 NUMBERS / A BETTER SINGER(DANCER) / SOMEONE WHO CAN ACT / SOMEONE WITH BIG TITS (MUSCLES,BOTTOM) / [space left blank to insert your own favourite reason]. However, should you be interested, we still have a vacancy for CHORUS / FRONT OF HOUSE / REAR END OF PANTOMIME HORSE / STAGE CREW / JANITOR / MUSICAL DIRECTOR, which I feel would suit your undoubted talents admirably and sincerely hope that you will CONSIDER THIS OFFER / GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS TOWN / TAKE UP UNDERWATER HANG GLIDING INSTEAD. Wishing you every future success in your CAREER AS A DONALD DUCK IMPERSONATOR / THESPIAN AVERSION THERAPY SESSIONS / ATTEMPT TO EVADE THE VICE SQUAD Yours sincerely, P.S. Please refund postage. copyright =A9 Helga J Perry - Little Shark Enterprises - June 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Helga Perry e-mail sharkli@netlink.co.uk * * * * * * "If I were chairman of this gang, I should hesitate to enrol _any_ baboon= who=20 couldn't produce satisfactory credentials from his last Zoological Garden= s." W.S. Gilbert: THE GRAND DUKE, Act I =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27871; Fri, 24 Jul 98 12:10:56 EDT Received: from [204.165.200.93] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27732; Fri, 24 Jul 98 12:10:30 EDT Received: from HCDOMAIN-Message_Server by holycross.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:20:18 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:20:06 -0400 From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: GAMAREX@aol.com, Jmkrain@aol.com, mlcar@MIT.EDU Cc: opus@MIT.EDU, dcl@ties.org Subject: Re: Singout Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *** EOOH *** X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:20:06 -0400 From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: GAMAREX@aol.com, Jmkrain@aol.com, mlcar@MIT.EDU Cc: opus@MIT.EDU, dcl@ties.org Subject: Re: Singout Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The Utopia vocal score is still available from Kalmus, which has been = acquired by Warner Brothers Music (formerly CPP Belwin). The catalogue = number is still the same. Any good music store should be able to order = this but do it quickly, as they probably won't have it in stock. Dale = Music Co. can have it drop shipped for you, and although they are in = Maryland they have an 800 number and you can order by credit card - they = might even actually have a copy. The number is 1-800-779-6874. If the = clerk isn't helpful, ask to speak with Mr. Gary Roper in the Order = department and till him I sent ya. Grand Duke is, as far as I know, not yet published by Kalmus although I've = heard rumors to that effect. If not, the only publisher is the original = one, Chappell (in England). However, the other rumor I've heard is that = Warner has now bought out Chappell and may be able to import it for you. = Again, Dale Music Co. should be able to help on this, but for this special = import you will definitely need to speak to Mr. Roper. Good Luck. Bruce I. Miller bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14364; Fri, 24 Jul 98 15:09:32 EDT Received: from strato-fe0.ultra.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10598; Fri, 24 Jul 98 15:09:09 EDT Received: from [209.6.67.109] (d107.dial-2.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.65.107]) by strato-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with SMTP id PAA27006; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:09:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: larrick@pop.ma.ultranet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:07:30 -0500 To: Marion Leeds Carroll From: dcl@ties.org (David Larrick) Subject: Re: Singout Cc: bmiller@holycross.edu, opus@MIT.EDU *** EOOH *** X-Sender: larrick@pop.ma.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:07:30 -0500 To: Marion Leeds Carroll From: dcl@ties.org (David Larrick) Subject: Re: Singout Cc: bmiller@holycross.edu, opus@MIT.EDU >>> vocal scores of Utopia and Grand Duke. My Kalmus catalogue lists a Utopia vocal score for $16.00 (as well as a full set of orchestra parts for $800). For Grand Duke, it only lists the overture: full score and parts. Music stores that sell sheet music can order from Kalmus for you, or call 'em directly at 561-241-6340. David Larrick, dcl@ties.org  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06546; Sun, 26 Jul 98 23:17:46 EDT Received: from BLADE.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26122; Sun, 26 Jul 98 23:17:16 EDT Received: by blade.mit.edu (8.8.8/4.7) id XAA01368; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807270317.XAA01368@blade.mit.edu> To: sipb-soc@MIT.EDU Subject: Lego Beta-testing Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:17:24 EDT From: Lex *** EOOH *** To: sipb-soc@MIT.EDU Subject: Lego Beta-testing Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:17:24 EDT From: Lex Got this from another list, thought some people might be interested... ------- Forwarded Message LEGO. MINDSTORMS(tm) needs you to help us make sure our new Robotics Invention System(tm) is totally fool-proof. As an official tester, you'll be among the very first to experience our Robotics Invention System. In return, we ask that you notify us of any bugs, problems or errors you encounter in our software or documentation. What's more, for your participation, you'll also receive a Robotics Invention System absolutely free. Just return your testing software to us and we'll send you a copy of the final software when we officially launch our Robotics Invention System this fall. Please note that this beta test is open to U.S. residents only so that we can provide the necessary technical support. All testers must have at least a Pentium. 90 MHz processor and 16 megabytes of RAM. Currently there is no Macintosh version of this software. To sign up, please visit our site at: http://www.legomindstorms.com/betatest/ Sign up soon, because the program begins in early August! Thanks! The LEGO MINDSTORMS Team ------- End of Forwarded Message  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23786; Tue, 28 Jul 98 18:12:55 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07774; Tue, 28 Jul 98 18:13:01 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA21421; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3bc9fb5d.35be412f@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: SHTURNBULL@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: SHTURNBULL@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New CD of Cox and Box (1866 version) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Mac sub 34 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: SHTURNBULL@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: SHTURNBULL@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New CD of Cox and Box (1866 version) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Mac sub 34 I am delighted to announce the issue TODAY of a new CD of the complete first edition COX AND BOX by The Divine Art Record Company (catalogue no. 2-4104). This is the first time a professional recording of the complete first edition has ever been commercially available. The recording includes the original lullaby of 1866 (as sung at the private performances in Burnand's house and Moray Lodge) and takes a a slight musicological liberty by including "Stay, Bouncer, Stay" [in its unedited version, of course], which was not composed until 1867. It also includes the complete dialogue and, as it was recorded in a Victorian drawing room, authentic sound effects of doors, windows etc. The piano is a Schmidt instrument of 1840. The CD booklet includes the complete libretto and an intelligent note by Leon Berger. The cast is as follows: Cox: Leon Berger Box: Ian Kennedy Bouncer: Donald Francke Accompanist: Kenneth Barclay Musical adviser: David Mackie The cast are all experienced singer/actors and a vocally excellent, fun performance is the result. At the time the original recording was made (1984) all the participants were touring with London Chamber Opera's production of Cox and Box (adapted by Joseph Horowitz), but this is not an LCO recording, nor is it a recording of the LCO production. The original intention was that it be issued by Pearl on LP, but they got cold feet and the master tape languished for a decade until a semi-private issue on cassette by the Sir Arthur Sullivan Society. This was reviewed by the late Professor Arthur Jacobs, who urged that a small, enterprising record company should take it up and issue it on CD. The Divine Art has done exactly that, and now, with the full co-operation of the SASS, here it is on CD, dedicated to Arthur's memory. Available direct from The Divine Art, 31 Beach Road, South Shields, NE33 2QX, UK, price GBP 8-99, or from the Sullivan Society stand at the memorabilia fair at Buxton on 8/9 August. e-mail: DivineArts@aol.com Website: http://members.aol.com/DivineArts/  1, answered,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09011; Wed, 29 Jul 98 22:51:18 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06862; Wed, 29 Jul 98 22:51:24 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA15697; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: rac@bu.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Rebecca Consentino To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Fun, Scandalous and On-Topic: just the way we like it! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: rac@bu.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Rebecca Consentino To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Fun, Scandalous and On-Topic: just the way we like it! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Here we have it, folks. I found most of this while reviewing my Ruddigore score for the Singout. It was composed on some loose leaf during an uneventful rehearsal or two in October. iiiiit's.... BECCA'S G&S PURITY TEST! (Not intended for viewers under 17. Void where prohibited.) Directions: You get one point for each question if your answer is YES. (You may take each question to mean whatever you like it to.) Key: MOS= Member of the Opposite Sex 1. Have you ever sighed for love? 2. Have you ever experienced unforeseen joy or rapture? 3. Have you ever read an etiquette book? 4. ...And disobeyed it? 5. Have you ever given someone an Italian Glance? 6. ...Did they like it? 7. Have you ever embraced a MOS? 8. ...Wearing Victorian costume? 9. Have you ever had a sentimental passion of a vegetable fashion? 10. Have you ever ingested a love philter? 11. ...And fallen in love with an inappropriate MOS? 12. Have you ever used a cat-o-nine tails? 13. Have you ever engaged in a statutory dual? 14. Has your presence ever compelled others to "talk about the weather"? 15. Has Celerity ever come to your cabin? 16. Have you ever seen a half-clothed barbarian? 17. Have you ever been a Slave of Duty? 18. Have you ever danced a hornpipe? 19. Is your Ideal Being semi-transparent and filled with an inorganic pink jelly? 20. Have you ever known what it is to be an orphan? 21. ...I *say*, have you ever known what it is to be one??? 22. Have you ever had a youthful fling? 23. ...Were you not pardoned for it? 24. Can you tell the age of a MOS in half a minute? 25. ...And do you? 26. Have you ever had a little list? 27. Have you ever sung choruses in public? 28. Have you ever been an unintentional bigamist? 29. ...or an intentional one? 30. Have you ever loved in vain? 31. Have you ever flirted? 32. ...under threat of death? 33. Has love, unrequited, robbed thee of thy rest? 34. Do the disrespectful sneers of a MOS call forth indignant tears? 35. Have you ever loved a Bad Baronet/Baroness? 36. ...Did you allow him/her to carry you off? 37. Have you ever been kissed "fondly thus"? 38. Does a Doctor of Divinity reside in your vicinity? 39. Have visions ever come to you from Poppydom? 40. Have you ever tried to prove yourself a conjugal and monetary treasure? 41. Do you show yourself, to loud applause, from 10 to 4 without a pause? 42. ...Is it awkward? 43. Have you ever been tried for breach of promise of marriage? 44. ...Were you convicted? 44. Have you ever married a rich attourney's elderly, ugly daughter? 46. Would you like to see a tiger from the Congo or the Niger? 47. ...Especially if it's lashing its tail? 48. Have you ever shown yourself in an alarming costume, completely lacking decent clothing? 49. Do you have a picture gallery that tends to take liberties? 50. Have you ever been "given one" in St. James' Park? FINAL INSTRUCTIONS: Count up your points and multiply them by two. This is a percentage, indicating your G&S Impurity. If you subtract that number from 100, you will see to what percent you remain "uncorrupted" by G&S experience. [Theoretically, this may one day appear on my web site, but it would need some work before then. I just thought I'd share this sneak preview with y'all... Ideally, there should be 100 questions on a purity test; after all, who wants to deal with multiplication?] ;-) It's great to be back, Rebecca A. Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065/gAs.html "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!"  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11857; Wed, 29 Jul 98 23:21:44 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10331; Wed, 29 Jul 98 23:21:49 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA16018; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: rmacphai@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: IMPORTANT MESSAGE RE: SavoyNet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: rmacphai@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: IMPORTANT MESSAGE RE: SavoyNet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I am interested in hearing (BY PRIVATE MAIL, PLEASE) from SavoyNetters who might be interested becoming list-master/mistress of SavoyNet for a while. I am not sure at this time what "for a while" means, but there will be no contracts or other legal agreements involved, and responsibilities could be returned at any time. The Bridgewater College Computing Center stands by, ready to assist and maintain SavoyNet here, but I wish to find someone to handle the day-to-day administrative tasks for a while. SavoyNet and its Archives will remain at Bridgewater College, but the list-master/mistress would receive bounces from sites that are down, from mailboxes that are full or closed, and such messages indicating a need for administrative assistance. Such problems can then be handled by sending e-mail messages to the listserver at Bridgewater College. The process is similar to the one that subscribers use when dealing with the listserver; the list-master/mistress, however, with the use of a password, can subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and otherwise affect others' subscriptions. Since SavoyNet will remain at Bridgewater College, I will reserve the right to re-assume ListMaster responsibilities at any time and for any reason. If this is of interest to you, please: 1. Send a private message to me (NOT to SavoyNet) indicating your interest. 2. In your message, ask any questions you may have. 3. Be patient, for I plan to collect such messages for a week or so, and then reply to all of them with another message sent only to the individuals indicating interest; that message will address questions asked, and solicit an indication of continued interest. I will not reply to these private messages until August 7th (at the earliest). I do not wish to discuss this publicly with the list. If it is not possible to find an acting list-master/mistress, SavoyNet may cease to exist on 31 August 1998. All good wishes to all subscribers to SavoyNet. Yours sincerely, Rafe -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Ralph MacPhail, Jr. RMacPhai@Bridgewater.edu (540) 828-5342 Box 114 Bridgewater College FAX: 828-5479 Bridgewater VA 22812-1599 USA HOME: 828-6656 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  1, answered,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03646; Thu, 30 Jul 98 09:56:32 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13565; Thu, 30 Jul 98 09:56:03 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA23758; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: rac@bu.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Rebecca A. Consentino" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Powerball Screams for Parody. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: rac@bu.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Rebecca A. Consentino" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Powerball Screams for Parody. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Gene Leonardi wrote from the lottery's perspective: > Come, walk up and purchase with avidity, > Overcome your intellect and pander to stupidity, > Can't go wrong by banking on the public's gullabillity, > Put in half your savings, sure, come flush them down the > drain. > Give a faceless stranger all that extra cash you > have on hand, and > In return you get a piece of paper, mister, ain't that grand-- > Then you'll do it all again, and that's what I don't understand-- > Guess the lure of easy money's muddled up your brain. > Now, from the point of view of the purchasees: We've lost our money, we're aware, But we don't care, no, we don't care. The lottery's big, no doubt of it; And we'll win our money back out of it. And someday we'll win thrice our share; So we don't care, no we don't care. [all dance.] Rebecca A. Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 Q: "And are YOU going a ticket for to buy?" A: "Most certainly, *I'm* not; what, do I look stoopid or somethin'?"  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15800; Fri, 31 Jul 98 08:19:41 EDT Received: from mermaid.shore.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03020; Fri, 31 Jul 98 08:19:10 EDT Received: from jik.shore.net [206.243.167.15] by mermaid.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) id 0z2E9W-0007m2-00; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:19:19 -0400 Received: (from jik@localhost) by jik.shore.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) id IAA08948; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:18:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:18:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199807311218.IAA08948@jik.shore.net> From: "Jonathan I. Kamens" To: sipb-members@MIT.EDU Subject: It's a girl! *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:18:34 -0400 From: "Jonathan I. Kamens" To: sipb-members@MIT.EDU Subject: It's a girl! Andrea delivered Miriam Leah Kamens, a beautiful 5 lb. 12 oz. baby girl, at 12:27am this morning. Mother and baby are doing well. I'm on my way back to the hospital to enjoy their company :-). jik  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20122; Fri, 31 Jul 98 12:57:04 EDT Received: from [38.209.248.2] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01898; Fri, 31 Jul 98 12:57:02 EDT Received: from SFT#u#PO-Message_Server by sftlaw.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:54:54 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:54:35 -0400 From: "Cynthia J. Mallion" To: ArcaneKnow@aol.com, takayla@aol.com, mbahe@ci.aurora.co.us, jkaplan@clintoncomputer.com, mgsgjjg@erols.com, ticorp@erols.com, judith.bucolo@ferc.fed.us, brian.hirsch@janusfunds.com, chris.pruchnic@janusfunds.com, kdavis7@juno.com, wiggo@juno.com, dbrandford@kenan.com, dpolicar@kenan.com, opus@MIT.EDU, deb@pobox.com, Lauren.Natter@pressroom.com, wjbagaria@venable.com, lmurray@wilmer.com, buubala@yahoo.com, hstaecker@yahoo.com, magorn@yahoo.com, noblessa@yahoo.com Cc: KJCrafts@RenCrafters.com, BUTCH@sftlaw.com, IBUZOR@sftlaw.com, JEN@sftlaw.com, MICHELLE@sftlaw.com, VR@sftlaw.com Subject: Fwd: FW: Drug Free Hallucinations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_A4F05DCE.C9A8C4A2" *** EOOH *** X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:54:35 -0400 From: "Cynthia J. Mallion" To: ArcaneKnow@aol.com, takayla@aol.com, mbahe@ci.aurora.co.us, jkaplan@clintoncomputer.com, mgsgjjg@erols.com, ticorp@erols.com, judith.bucolo@ferc.fed.us, brian.hirsch@janusfunds.com, chris.pruchnic@janusfunds.com, kdavis7@juno.com, wiggo@juno.com, dbrandford@kenan.com, dpolicar@kenan.com, opus@MIT.EDU, deb@pobox.com, Lauren.Natter@pressroom.com, wjbagaria@venable.com, lmurray@wilmer.com, buubala@yahoo.com, hstaecker@yahoo.com, magorn@yahoo.com, noblessa@yahoo.com Cc: KJCrafts@RenCrafters.com, BUTCH@sftlaw.com, IBUZOR@sftlaw.com, JEN@sftlaw.com, MICHELLE@sftlaw.com, VR@sftlaw.com Subject: Fwd: FW: Drug Free Hallucinations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_A4F05DCE.C9A8C4A2" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_A4F05DCE.C9A8C4A2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline This was just WAY too cool not to send to everybody I know!! CJ/Te "Emily's hamster committed suicide right before her eyes." -- opening line from "Death Row" by Jon Katz --=_A4F05DCE.C9A8C4A2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from mhint3.microhouse.com ([204.132.131.6]) by sftlaw.com; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:10:19 -0400 Received: by MHINT3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:03:38 -0600 Message-ID: <505CB3779017D2118E4D00A0C9364C7607A9A7@MHINT3> From: Donna Hirsch To: "'Cynthia J. Mallion'" Subject: FW: Drug Free Hallucinations Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:03:35 -0600 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_A4F05DCE.C8A9C5A3" --=_A4F05DCE.C8A9C5A3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline > ----- >=20 > > >Before you open the file, read the instructions below first! > > >> =20 > > >> Check this out Its weird: > > >> =20 > > >> 1. Keep one hand on your mouse. > > >> 2. Launch the attached program. > > >> 3. Concentrate at the center of your screen for about 20-25 > > >> seconds. > > >> 4. Now look at the back of your hand (the hand which is on > > >> the mouse). > > >> 5. Don't scream.... It's only an optical illusion. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > <>=20 --=_A4F05DCE.C8A9C5A3 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="optical.exe" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="optical.exe" TVrCAAMAAAAgAAAA//8HAAABZUAAAAAAQAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADo 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA= --=_A4F05DCE.C8A9C5A3-- --=_A4F05DCE.C9A8C4A2--  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11348; Fri, 31 Jul 98 14:22:03 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26807; Fri, 31 Jul 98 14:21:29 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA13357; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: BMILLER@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Grand Duke vocal scores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:21:30 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: BMILLER@holycross.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Grand Duke vocal scores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 In response to a few who have inquired on the list: The piano-vocal score of The Grand Duke, advertised recently as available in the USA from Warner Brothers Music, is indeed the original Chappell vocal score. The list price is $20.95 - not a bad price for any vocal score these days. The catalogue number is 07301. For the first time in years, the Grand Duke vocal score now appears to be available in this country on something resembling a reliable basis. The downside for this summer is that Warner only has a few copies in stock right now. No doubt they will reorder when the supply is depleted, especially if there is a demand. The store which obtained a single copy this week, and is prepared to order additional copies immediately, is listed below. They will take credit card orders and are, in my experience, extermely reliable and knolwedgeable about all facets of the sheet music business, particularly educational and classical. They have separate departments for choral/organ, band/orchestra, and vocal sheet music/opera scores. Is this a plug? Yes. Am I ashamed? No. If you call them at their 800 number, ask specifically for Mr. Gary Roper in the Order Department. He is the one there who is fully informed on the Grand Duke vocal score situation. Dale Music Co. Inc. 8240 Georgia Avenue Silver Spring, MD 20910 (not far from Rockville, BTW and worth a trip.) 1-800-779-6874 Local: 589-1459 Bruce I. Miller bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16670; Mon, 3 Aug 98 00:43:21 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29513; Mon, 3 Aug 98 00:42:50 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA26917; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: ah708@FreeNet.Buffalo.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Daniel Kravetz To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New Sullivan CD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: ah708@FreeNet.Buffalo.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Daniel Kravetz To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New Sullivan CD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I have just listened to "Sullivan & Co.: The Operas that Got Away," the new TER CD, and I am grateful that this release has materialized and hope that this will lead to a boom in recording Sullivan's non-Gilbert works for the commercial market. I should disclose from the outset that I specialize in producing and conducting these works at the New York G&S Society and have my own ideas as to how they should be presented that may differ with the folks responsible for this CD. Nevertheless, I will try to look at it from the perspective of a G&S fan who is exploring new material. The CD cover is visually enticing, but if you don't know the design consists of icons from Savoy Theatre souvenir programs, you'll wonder what it has to do with Sullivan. I would have selected a photo or drawing of the composer himself, and stressed "Sir Arthur Sullivan" in the title. The point is grabbing as much attention as possible from customers browsing in the record shops. I am wery well aware of the the risks being taken to present Sullivan to the music-loving public as something other than half of G&S. The liner notes reveal an insecurity about the project in desribing Sullivan as someone who "never strayed beyond the boundaries of his genius." Does true genius have boundaries? Is it praising Sullivan to declare that he never attempted to be anything other than he was? The recording itself bears considerable evidence that Sullivan was continually reinventing himself, and so does the body of his work not used on the recording. To state that Sullivan's art "requires neither apologies nor explanation" is in itself something of an apologyu, but again, I realize how provocative this release is in some circles, and how certain critics may object to its very existence as unworthy of the effort. The deliberate omission of W.S. Gilbert's name in connection with THE MARTYR OF ANTIOCH to avoid repercussions may have been very necessary--I can only say I await the day when admirers of Sullivan as an all-around composer can "come out of the closet." The most interesting pieces on the disc are the MARTYR excerpts. The work, despite the title of the disc, is not an opera. Perhaps it was too risky to wait for an entire CD of excerpts from choral works, so these are welcome. Both pieces are to be sung by heathens or pagans (as opposed to Christians) and Sullivan did some brilliant rhythmic and melodic work. I'll have to listen to more of MARTYR to see what else is there. The IVANHOE excerpts are quite well done, and demonstrate how well a good professional recording of the complete opera might sound. I can't help but find problems with the performances of excerpts from HADDON HALL, THE CHIEFTAIN, THE BEAUTY STONE, THE ROSE OF PERSIA and THE EMERALD ISLE, all of which I know very well. Several singers with G&S opera performing credentials seem to have come to the studio to give performances of technical quality with little commitment to the works in question (probably because they don't know them the way they know the G&S canon). As a result, much of the beauty and charm of these selections is left unexplored. In HADDON, the "budding bloom" madrigal is beautifully sung, but plods along in too stately a fashion for the joy and cheer it purports to express. "The sun's in the sky" on the other hand doesn't stop to savor its pastoral picture of budding romance and Frances McCafferty is more contralto than mezzo, showing little of the sauciness and mischief of her character. Gareth Jones and Gillian Knight do very well with their solos. In CHIEFTAIN, Arthur Davies could use a bit more energy in the gay Hussar's drinking song. His French duet with Valerie Masterson is gotten through without much pointing out of the absurdity of the situation--it's almost too much like real French operetta as opposed to the English making fun of it. BEAUTY STONE is undercut by the soloists in both its excerpts. Richard Suart, a high baritone, is simply wrong for the Devil, a bass role if there ever was one. Never mind that Walter Passmore created the part; it was composed for a bass voice. Masterson, who is still a Josephine to die for, is just too sweet and placid to convey the conniving desperation of Saida in her "Ride on!" aria. They both give excellent renditions of the music--better than one is likely to hear in a lifetime--but so not serve to show this opera in its best light, In ROSE OF PERSIA, why give us another tenor driking song when such numbers as the "Harum Scarum" trio and "Sultan's Executioner" could have been tapped as sure-fire knockouts? The EMERALD ISLE selections are quite nicely brought off, although "On the heights" (one of the most gorgeous trios ever written by anyone) seems too perfunctory. And there is the question of why the disk runs only 52 minutes, when 25 minutes more could have fit easily. I suppose money is the answer, and the sponsors of the selections are to be congratulated for the service they My reservations aside, this CD is a must-buy for anyone who treaures the music of Sir Arthur Sullivan. Don't miss it! Dan Kravetz Gilbert & Sullivan Society of New York  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26937; Fri, 7 Aug 98 10:26:33 EDT Received: from relay-0.ziplink.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03687; Fri, 7 Aug 98 10:26:20 EDT Received: from peter (woostah-ip-1-48.ziplink.net [206.15.130.48]) by ziplink.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA21404 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:26:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Peter Stark" To: Subject: Here I am Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:27:35 -0400 Message-Id: <000001bdc20f$85c637a0$1100a8c0@peter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 *** EOOH *** From: "Peter Stark" To: Subject: Here I am Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:27:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Hi, Dave! Hi, Ruth! Hope the new kitchen is going well. Here's my new job. I'm manager of online community development. I commute to Worcester every day. The work is very different and the commute is not bad. I'd love to be in touch and to see you. Still want to take you guys to dinner. My mom is doing better. She was in the hospital for longer than we expected. Give me a call one evening. Peter. Peter Stark FurnitureSite http://www.furnituresite.com <:>+<:>+<:><:>+<:>+<:><:>+<:>+<:><:>+<:>+<:><:>+<:>+<:><:>+< :> FurnitureSite.com is the largest home furnishings site web-wide. Specialized search engines (furniture, upholstery, carpet/rug, lighting) to help you find just what you're looking for, at an affordable price.  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25392; Sat, 8 Aug 98 14:06:37 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16805; Sat, 8 Aug 98 14:06:23 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA00428; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: GpaAndSon@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: GpaAndSon@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: A G&S Quiz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: GpaAndSon@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: GpaAndSon@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: A G&S Quiz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 The following Gilbert and Sullivan quiz is being offered as a challenge to the Savoynetters to take to measure their knowledge of G&S and Gilbert's Bab Ballads. There will be no grades given and each participant is expected to grade his own examination. It is suggested that you answer all the questions you can as if taking a closed book examination; and then do the questions you missed as if you were taking a n open book examination. If after completing the examination and you have any questions that you were not able to find answers for , address them to the savoynet to see if one of the knowledgable 'Nettors can answer the question. NOTE: This exam was of the type that John Stuart Calverly gave his students in English Literature at Pickwick School more than 70 years ago. It was taken from Bookman Magazine, vol 73, April 1931, page 146, entitled "Her Majesty's Jesters" 1. In what opera is another Gilbert and Sullivan opera called "infernal nonsense"? Comment on the justice of this remark. 2. Give all the rhymes, English and foreign, for "twenty. 3. What is the stage direction of "To the Terrestrial Globe"? 4. In what number of what opera is the work of Mrs. Emily Post foreshadowed and criticized? In what ballad is the subject exhaustively treated? 5. Quote (in full) a Gilbert limerick. 6. Where are 3/4 and 4/4 time played together? 7. What is the most ingenious paradox? For what year ws it computed, and how does that determine the date of the opera? 8. Which Bab Ballad is touching, pathetic, not intended to be humorous? 9. What does "sat agee" mean, and what is the rhyme for it? 10. Which Bab Ballad contains germinal hints of (a) "Pinafore," (b) "The Yeomen Of The Guard," (c) "Patience? 11. Where is attention called lyrically to a delayed exit? 12. Who was Captain Shaw? 13. Where are musical instruments and social distinction juxtaposed? 14. Mention patter songs dealing with (a) insomnia, (b) miscellaneous information, (c) better people dead, (d) the day's work of a king, (e) the use of dukes and duchesses, (f) receipe for dragoon soup. 15. Place, and if possible quote, the works of a duet and chorus that are in another language than English. 16. What is the relation of "Basingstoke" to madness? 17. Who said "of shreds and patches"? Who said it first? 18. Complete the following quotations, giving the lines that go before, (b) the lines that come after. (a). Fold your flapping wings, Soaring legislature; Stoop to - - - (b), Now a father it shocks, And it whitens his locks When his little babe - - (c). When the coster's finished jumping on his mother -- (d) Is either a little Liberal, Or else a little Conservative! (e). There is beauty in the bellow of the blast, There is grandeur in the growling of the gale, (f), For I'm called Little - - - (g). Twenty love-sick - - - (h). And so do his sisters and his cousins and his - - - (i). An ultra-poetical, super-aesthetical - - - (j). To make the punishment fit - - - (k). You shall quickly be personified, Conjugally matrimonified (l) And I polished up the handles of - - - I wish you all luck in taking this quiz and when you look up the answers take a little time to read the entire libretto. You will be amazed how much you forgotten. Louis Titusville, FL, USA The grandpa in GpaAndSon :.  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02200; Mon, 10 Aug 98 22:01:32 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23593; Mon, 10 Aug 98 22:01:15 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA27560; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <24f6c0b2.35cfa4ec@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: LetaHall@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: LetaHall@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Two G&S "sightings" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: LetaHall@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: LetaHall@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Two G&S "sightings" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 1. Yesterday while I was getting dressed for church, my friend Jean Inaba, an on-air host at WETA (our local NPR station)* played the Major-General's song and 3 Little Maids; and 2. Just now, while I was doing some housework 20/'20 asked "From which 3 countries did most of our ancesters come?" The answer was: Germany, Ireland, and England and the photograph of English looking ancesters ran with - wait for it - an instrumental of the Major-General's song and 3 Little Maids! (Even more amazing for me, of course, is the fact that my own ancesters are German, Irish, and English. I must be a *very* average American.) *Mind you, when I requested "more Sullivan" her answer was "yeah, right." I think she's being nice to me. Leta (LetaHall@aol.com) PS - For those of you who are attending the Sing-Out: I have mailed packets to everyone from whom I have received a registration. It's full of interesting and useful information, so if you have not received yours, please let me know. And for new people who might not have heard - The Victorian Lyric Opera Company is presenting the 2nd Great Gilbert & Sullivan Sing-Out on August 28-30, where we will sing straight through all 13 extent operettas in one day. The brochure can be found on-line at www.vw.net/users/vloc or by asking me (LetaHall@aol.com) for a copy. There will a reception Friday night, the singing on Saturday, and brunch on Sunday, either at a local restaurant or - Savoynet special - at Sandy Rovner's. Please come and join us - we'd love to see you there! LMH  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06975; Tue, 11 Aug 98 11:51:37 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04635; Tue, 11 Aug 98 11:52:07 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA19100; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4874016b2cdduffey@argonet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: and what do I find? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Pluto 1.09c for RISC OS 3.7 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: dduffey@argonet.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Duffey To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: and what do I find? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Pluto 1.09c for RISC OS 3.7 A couple of minor treasures acquired at the Buxton memorabilia fair: a Gondoliers VS with "Here is a fix unprecedented!" a Pinafore VS with the original Sullivan ending a Pirates VS with "we bid you yield" followed by 10 bars: GIRLS "Oh Spare them! they are all noblemen who have gone wrong. MG "What, all noblemen?" KING "Yes, all noblemen!" MG "What, all? KING "Well, nearly all!" And very interestingly, within a DOC prompt book of Gondoliers, a flimsy typed sheet headed "Act II Emergency lib. Ladies in grey cloaks in court - and men Gu. What a delightful life this is Marco. Now that we've been here a few weeks I'm beginning to feel quite at home. (Approaches one lady - is refused) Ma. Quite at home! Here we are, with our few faithful friends, - surrounded by all these beautiful ladies. Gu. Wasn't it wonderful the way they came flocking to the palace when you advertised in the local paper "Virtuous ladies wanted for superior palace. All. (sic) Mod. con. Ma. I suppose it wasn't the free food that attracted them? Still they help to make the palace more pleasant till our wives arrive. Gu. At the same time there is just one little grievance we should like to ventilate........ Could this have been used in late wartime, when the DOC was so denuded of male performers? It's the first I've heard of it. Are there any other examples? David -- The Family Duffey 107 Fulbridge Road Peterborough PE1 3LE (+44) (0)1733 552791  1, forwarded, answered,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17147; Tue, 11 Aug 98 14:18:03 EDT Received: from [38.209.248.2] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15753; Tue, 11 Aug 98 14:18:32 EDT Received: from SFT#u#PO-Message_Server by sftlaw.com with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:17:04 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:16:38 -0400 From: "Cynthia J. Mallion" To: kwagner@aec.umd.edu, ArcaneKnow@aol.com, takayla@aol.com, torcstan@aol.com, mbahe@ci.aurora.co.us, jkaplan@clintoncomputer.com, mgsgjjg@erols.com, ticorp@erols.com, judith.bucolo@ferc.fed.us, wiggo@juno.com, dbrandford@kenan.com, dpolicar@kenan.com, donnah@microhouse.com, opus@MIT.EDU, deb@pobox.com, natter@pressroom.com, elf@universe.digex.net, jms@universe.digex.net, lmurray@wilmer.com, buubala@yahoo.com, hstaecker@yahoo.com, magorn@yahoo.com, noblessa@yahoo.com Subject: 80's trivia....! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *** EOOH *** X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:16:38 -0400 From: "Cynthia J. Mallion" To: kwagner@aec.umd.edu, ArcaneKnow@aol.com, takayla@aol.com, torcstan@aol.com, mbahe@ci.aurora.co.us, jkaplan@clintoncomputer.com, mgsgjjg@erols.com, ticorp@erols.com, judith.bucolo@ferc.fed.us, wiggo@juno.com, dbrandford@kenan.com, dpolicar@kenan.com, donnah@microhouse.com, opus@MIT.EDU, deb@pobox.com, natter@pressroom.com, elf@universe.digex.net, jms@universe.digex.net, lmurray@wilmer.com, buubala@yahoo.com, hstaecker@yahoo.com, magorn@yahoo.com, noblessa@yahoo.com Subject: 80's trivia....! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Notes: Don - for the list; anyone under the age of 24 not really expected = to know any of the answers; anyone over 30 should really get at *least* = half....! Good luck some of these are really hard... TOUGH TOUGH 80's Trivia 1) Who were Turbo and Ozone? 2) What bar did the gang from Three's Company always go to? 3) What was the last name of the man who adopted Webster? 4) Where were Willis and Arnold in Different Strokes from originally? 5) Name the two players chosen in the NBA draft before Michael Jordan 6) Who were Ricky's three best friends in Silver Spoons? 7) What was Punky Brewster's dog's name? 8) Who did President Reagan beat when re-elected in 1984? 9) Who headed the PMRC and had many legal battles with Dee Snider of Twisted Sister? 10) Who sang "Too Shy"? 11) What was the largest selling album of the 80s? 12) Name three Weird Al Yankovic songs. 13) What year did Poison release their first album? 14) Whos legs did the ball go through on the Red Sox in game 6 of the 1986 World series? 15) What were the names of the 4 Ghostbusters (character names). 16) Name 3 members of the Kobra Kai. 17) School aged girls wore hundreds of these on their arms. 18) What happened to the "Ark" at the end of Indiana Jones? 19) Who was Ubu? 20) Nigel Tufnel and David St Hubbins were in this group. 21) The Pop group "Wham" consisted of George Michael and... 22) What was the original title of Return of the Jedi? 23) Who was Latka's other personality in the show "TAXI?" 24) Name all 5 members of the New Kids on the Block. 25) In the 80s, Steven Spielberg produced this Scifi/Action/Adventure/Mystery sitcom 26) Who played "The Incredible Hulk?" 27) What was the bears name in Grizzly Adams? 28) Who were the Duke Boys' Cousins? 29) Name the Concert in which music artists raised millions of dollars for famine relief in Ethiopia. 30) According to Prince, what was the name of "that shrink in Beverly Hills?" 31) What was the name of the burnout in Fast Times at Ridgemont High? 32) Who did Woody replace on Cheers? 33) Who played "The Greatest American Hero?" 34) What was the name of the McDonalds sandwich that kept "the hot hot and the cold cold?" 35) What was the first video ever aired on MTV and who sang it? 36) Who sang the song "I know what boys like?" 37) How many times did the Celtics face the Lakers in the NBA finals? Who won? 38) The "Brat Pack" consisted of: 39) Name 3 "Brat Pack" movies. 40) What was the name of the computer in the movie "War Games?" What game did it want to play? 41) What was the plumbers name in the show "One Day at a Time?" 42) Who was Khan? 43) How many sequels were there to "Jaws?" 44) Who was the leader of the Thundercats? 45) What cartoon did Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids watch all the time? 46) What was Balkie's catch phrase from the show "Perfect Strangers?" 47) Who were the two detectives that helped Axel Foley in Beverly Hills Cop? 48) These sneakers had little "pouches" on the side. 49) What was the toy "for a girl or a boy?" 50) These dolls were the most popular toy of the 80s. People fought over them in stores and they had a signature on their butts. 51) AIDS was originally called. 52) Who teamed up with Hulk Hogan to fight Rowdy Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff in Wrestlemania? 53) What kind of car fell into the water in Risky > Business and what color was it?  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27535; Thu, 13 Aug 98 09:18:08 EDT Received: from [199.196.189.5] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05596; Thu, 13 Aug 98 09:17:51 EDT Message-Id: <9808131317.AA05596@MIT.EDU> Received: by 180MAIL2.heitman.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:12:41 -0500 From: "Jedlinsky, Cindy PRP" To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: RE: the birthday dirge Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:17:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) *** EOOH *** From: "Jedlinsky, Cindy PRP" To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Subject: RE: the birthday dirge Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:17:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Gee, Thanks. I only turned 25, you know. I don't think death is THAT near. But, one never does know. Thanks for the birthday wishes, we didn't do anything special last night, but Robert got me an ice cream cake that said "Happy Birthday Mrs. Major". Isn't that cute? He also bought me a beautiful dress. So, it was nice. Has your construction started? Will we be sleeping in dust and wood chips at Christmas? I spoke to Gram Pray last night. She was really sick with shingles a couple of weeks ago. Maybe you should call her to say hi- she's also in the new place. Her address and number are: Presbyterian Foothills Home 1855 Crestview Road Apt. B-210 Easley, SC 29642 864-859-0409 Talk to you soon! Cinders ---------- From: David C. Jedlinsky To: prpcj01@heitman.com Subject: the birthday dirge Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 11:42AM If you don't know the tune, think dismal, minor key, sung in parallel fifths. Oh yeah, Happy Birthday. :-) -Dave ----------------------------------- THE SCA HAPPY BIRTHDAY SONG tune: "Volga Boatmen" Happy Birthday! (UHH!) Happy Birthday! (UHH!) Death and gloom and black despair People dying everywhere Happy Birthday! (UHH!) Happy Birthday! (UHH!) Now you are the age you are Fear and gloom and darkness but Your demise cannot be far no one found out YOU KNOW WHAT May the candles on your cake You're a period cook, its true burn like cities in your wake ask the beetles in the stew Burn the Castle and storm the keep Now your jail-bait days are done Kill the Women but SAVE THE SHEEP! let's go out and have some fun! May your deeds with sheep and yaks You must marry very soon equal those with sword and axe baby's due the next full moon Your servants steal, your wife's untrue Were I sitting in your shoes Your children plot to murder you I'd go out and sing the blues They stole your gold, your sword, your house Tho you're turning 29 They stole your sheep, but not your spouse age to you is like fine wine So you're 29 again Now you've lived another year don't tell lies to your good friend age to you is like stale beer So another year has passed Long ago your hair turned grey don't look now they're gaining fast! now it's falling out, they say Black Death has just struck your town It's your birthday never fear you yourself feel quite run-down You'll be dead this time next year We brought linen, white as cloud See the wrinkles on your face Now we'll sit and sew your shroud! Like the pattern of fine lace So far death you have bypassed Indigestion's what you get Don't look back it's gaining fast From the enemies you 'et I'm a leper, can't you see This one lesson you must learn Have a birthday kiss from me FIRST you pillage, THEN you burn Burn, then rape by firelight While you eat your birthday stew Add -romance- to life tonight! We will sack a town for you Birthdays come but once a year, Death will come before the dawn Marking time as Death draws near Now's the time to party on! Now you've lived another year, People starving on the earth, And your death is drawing near. Go ahead, eat your dessert, Raise your cup of bitter cheer, Rape the horses while they sleep, Make the barman eat his ear See the women wail and weep Now your hairs are turning grey, Now you've lived another year, Soon they all will fall away. And your death is drawing near. Like the wrinkles in old lace News that fills our hearts with fear: Time is etched upon your face. They've proved cancer's caused by beer, Famine, fear, and fire and flood When you've reached your age you know Can't keep your face out of the mud That the mind is first to go Happy Birthday!  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03129; Thu, 13 Aug 98 09:42:18 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11115; Thu, 13 Aug 98 09:42:01 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA29104; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35D2B674.98D6E6AF@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New Sullivan CD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New Sullivan CD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) The new CD that the Sir Arthur Sullivan Society has sponsored, "Sullivan & Co.: The Operas That Got Away" (JAY CDJAY 1302), has received its share of attention on Savoynet, but the disc is of sufficient interest to warrant yet another review. The disc contains selections from all of Sullivan's operas that were written or first performed in the 1890's, aside from those he wrote with Gilbert. The premise is that Sullivan's genius was NOT limited to the operas he wrote with his most famous collaborator. These late operas (that "got away") are full of gems that show a composer fully in command of his art, and not a word of Gilbert anywhere to be found. In many of them, Sullivan's gift of orchestration, which he often tamped down in the Gilbert operas, is shown in full bloom. Aiding the cause are the fully professional forces of the National Symphony Orchestra conducted by David Steadman, and six soloists with well-known Sullivan credentials: Arthur Davies, Gareth Jones, Gillian Knight, Valerie Masterson, Frances McCafferty, and Richard Suart. The chorus is unnamed and a little thin-sounding in spots, but I assume they are top-rank amateurs. Sullivan's music apart from Gilbert has enjoyed increasingly frequent respect in the recording studio, but this is the first time that so much of his operatic music from the 1890s -- music that shows him in his most favorable element -- has been recorded by such top-quality forces. And indeed, these are probably the best performances the material has received in this century. If Sullivan & Co. achieves its objective -- to force a reappraisal of the composer's non-Gilbert music -- it could well be the most important Sullivan recording of the last quarter-century. Regardless of whether these lofty objectives are met, it is a recording that will delight any lover of Sullivan's music, and will leave most listeners with a far better perspective on his achievements as a composer. It is a pity that nearly half-an-hour of the CD's maximum capacity is left unused, but this was surely a financial necessity. As it was, the recording cost 30,000 pounds, half of which the Sullivan Society had to raise on its own. One is left thirsting for complete recordings of these operas on the professional level heard here, but it's clear this dream will take many years to achieve, due to the enormous expense involved. One might have wished that "Ho! Jolly Jenkin" from "Ivanhoe" and the Drinking Song from "The Rose of Persia," both of which have been well served on records, had been left out in favor of less-often heard selections, but otherwise the programme is well chosen. Sadly, the liner notes are not up to the level of the recording itself. I've made my peace with the omission of Gilbert's name in connection with "The Martyr of Antioch," but other statements are harder to forgive, or even to fathom. For example: -- "Arthur Sullivan was the most critical of English composers." One wonders, in comparison to whom? Does not even Purcell, Elgar, or Britten measure up to Sullivan? -- ". . . Sullivan never strayed beyond the boundaries of his genius." Again, in comparison to whom? The statement implies that Sullivan never failed musically, a statement I wouldn't even make about Beethoven, much less about Sullivan. -- ". . . his judgement is vindicated by the consistent artistic success of his music." Again, this implies that everything he wrote was of a uniformly high level, which is surely not the case. It is not demeaning Sullivan to observe that, like all composers, some of his works are better than others. Certainly, some of these operas DID fail with the public, a fact the notes never mention. (Far better, I think, to confront this head on, and to explain it, than to hope that no one will look up "The Beauty Stone" and find that it ran for only 67 performances.) -- "His ambition was not to edify but to delight." But surely, sacred pieces like "The Martyr of Antioch" WERE intended partly to edify. -- "Like the troubadours of medieval Provence, he might have described his art as the Gay Science." A barely comprehensible statement. -- "Such an art requires neither apology nor explanation." But, the liner notes are precisely that: an explanation. -- "[His music] exists in and of its own sake, and is to be appreciated as an enhancement of life through pleasure. To please the listener is therefore the only purpose of the present disc . . . ," implying that other discs have a different purpose? And so forth. There are potted summaries of each opera, explaining how the included numbers figure in the plot. The words are included for all the selections. It is hard to single out any item, because they are all so good. The "Martyr of Antioch" and "Ivanhoe" selections show Sullivan's skill at orchestration to particular advantage. There are four selections from "Haddon Hall," more than any other opera. While "Haddon" is a particular favorite of mine, perhaps it would have been wiser to give more air time to "The Rose of Persia" (represented only by the Drinking Song). The selections from "The Chieftain" struck me as slightly weaker than the rest. But, it must frankly be acknowledged that this opera was one of the greatest failures of Sullivan's career. Maybe, in this case, posterity WAS right. Some people have criticized Richard Suart's Devil in "The Beauty Stone," but I find him perfect for the role, and I only wish more people could hear the entire opera. Suart also shines in "If you wish to appear as an Irish type" from "The Emerald Isle." The selections from this last opera bring a fitting end to the disc, and they show that Sullivan was still in full command of his powers at the end of his life. Every opera has a musical "tint" appropriate to the time and place. This is so much more evident when selections from multiple operas are juxtaposed, as on this disc. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: marc.shepherd@ssmb.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03546; Thu, 13 Aug 98 09:44:09 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11554; Thu, 13 Aug 98 09:43:52 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA29210; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35D2B741.DDA2CE70@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Amy's Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Amy's Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) Not long ago, Jennifer Johnson, a descendant of Sir Arthur Sullivan's family and a Savoynetter, announced publication of "Amy's Book," the reminiscences of Amy Sullivan Stephens (1863-1947), the longest surviving daughter of the composer's brother, Frederic Sullivan. I don't know if the book is still available (I'm sure Jen will tell us), but if so, it is time and money well spent. The book is under 100 pages and is easily read in one sitting. "Amy's Book," subtitled "London--Los Angeles 1866-1886," tells of Amy's formative years in London and Europe, and her family's move to Los Angeles in 1884-85. Arthur Sullivan was immensely fond of his brother's family, and after Fred died in 1877, the composer took great interest in their care and welfare. The narrative ends in 1886. I got the impression that Amy wrote more, but that the Sullivan heirs chose to publish only the part of her life in which Sir Arthur played the most active role; the end of the narrative seems rather abrupt. Although the composer figures in it prominently, Amy discusses many other things. What emerges is a vivid picture of upper middle-class life in the nineteenth century, and Amy tells it engagingly. Of Sullivan himself, we see a domestic side not portrayed in any of the biographies. This is an account of Sullivan the family man; his professional pursuits, though touched upon, are not a focus. One comes away with the firm belief that he would have made an excellent father. As it was, he was a superb surrogate father, and Amy obviously adored him. There are fifteen illustrations from the Sullivan family archives. Most, or perhaps all of them have never before been published. These appear to have been scanned into a computer, and it is a pity they couldn't be reproduced at higher quality. This would have increased the price of the book, no doubt, but it would have been well worth it. Unfortunately, we are left with a bittersweet ending. The impression given is that the family's move to Los Angeles was a terrible mistake. I apologize in advance to Jennifer Johnson and the Sullivan family if this is NOT their belief. However, I cannot help the fact that this is the way the book strikes me, and so I believe it will strike others. Amy's mother was persuaded to move her family to America (after Frederic Sullivan's death) by her brother, William Lacy. It certainly appears that Lacy promised them a better life, and more personal attention, than they in fact found in Los Angeles. Within a year of arriving, the mother and an infant step-brother died -- owing, it seems, to poor medical care. The step-father then returned to England alone, leaving the children to their own devices in a strange country. After their mother's death, Arthur came to visit, and the family begged him to take them back to England. However, Arthur was persuaded that they were better off staying put, partly becaused he believed that William Lacy would look after their welfare, which he appears not to have done. (One of the chapters is even titled, "We see less and less of Uncle William.") Amy became the de facto matriarch of the family, and Arthur sent them a regular stipend. Mistake or no, the family did make a successful life in America and has left a large group of descendants who still look upon "Uncle" Arthur with great affection. William Lacy Smith, who edited the manuscript, makes a tantalizing comment in the introduction, when he writes of Sullivan's nephew Herbert ("Bertie"): "Well schooled, trained as an engineer, he became Arthur Sullivan's principal beneficiary and inherited a wealth of Arthur's correspondence, musical scores and personal papers that for the most part are now at the Pierpont Morgan Library, New York, and the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, Yale University. Why these papers are not all together under one trusteeship makes for an interesting account that has no place here." This is an account that I, for one, would be eager to hear. "Amy's Book," brief though it is, makes a wonderful contribution to a fuller understanding of Sullivan the man, as well as providing a capsule view of everyday life in the nineteenth century. I hope everyone will have the chance to read it. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: marc.shepherd@ssmb.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18784; Thu, 13 Aug 98 18:21:37 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06596; Thu, 13 Aug 98 18:22:09 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA14478; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: SHTURNBULL@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: SHTURNBULL@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: How Order Sullivan CD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Mac sub 34 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: SHTURNBULL@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: SHTURNBULL@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: How Order Sullivan CD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Mac sub 34 Sullivan and Co. is available from me at 48 Front Street, Cockfield, Bishop Auckland, DL13 5DS, UK, price GBP13-99 post paid (UK); GBP 15-99 or US$ 27 airmail post paid (overseas). Please make your cheques payable to SIR ARTHUR SULLIVAN SOCIETY. We can't take credit cards (yet) - sorry. It is on sale at Buxton, and will, of course, be on sale at our own Sullivan Festival at Retford on 23/4/5 October  1, forwarded,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11172; Fri, 14 Aug 98 10:09:05 EDT Received: from [38.209.248.2] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24177; Fri, 14 Aug 98 10:08:42 EDT Received: from SFT#u#PO-Message_Server by sftlaw.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:08:45 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:08:18 -0400 From: "Cynthia J. Mallion" To: kwagner@aec.umd.edu, ArcaneKnow@aol.com, takayla@aol.com, mbahe@ci.aurora.co.us, jkaplan@clintoncomputer.com, mgsgjjg@erols.com, judith.bucolo@ferc.fed.us, wiggo@juno.com, dbrandford@kenan.com, dpolicar@kenan.com, donnah@microhouse.com, opus@MIT.EDU, deb@pobox.com, elf@universe.digex.net, jms@universe.digex.net, wjbagaria@venable.com, lmurray@wilmer.com, buubala@yahoo.com, magorn@yahoo.com Cc: MICHELLE@sftlaw.com Subject: Yikes....! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *** EOOH *** X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:08:18 -0400 From: "Cynthia J. Mallion" To: kwagner@aec.umd.edu, ArcaneKnow@aol.com, takayla@aol.com, mbahe@ci.aurora.co.us, jkaplan@clintoncomputer.com, mgsgjjg@erols.com, judith.bucolo@ferc.fed.us, wiggo@juno.com, dbrandford@kenan.com, dpolicar@kenan.com, donnah@microhouse.com, opus@MIT.EDU, deb@pobox.com, elf@universe.digex.net, jms@universe.digex.net, wjbagaria@venable.com, lmurray@wilmer.com, buubala@yahoo.com, magorn@yahoo.com Cc: MICHELLE@sftlaw.com Subject: Yikes....! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I've tried not to send this to anyone (much) under 25, as they'd miss the = entire point. Shame on anyone over thirty who isn't nodding along with = the questions and saying "ah, yes, I recall that..." as they read.... CJ "Well, *I* certainly feel old....!" > >Subject: FEELING OLD?? > > > >Read below and you just might feel that way... > > > >> What College Freshmen Of 1998 Know: A Perspective > >> > >> Interesting facts: > >> The people who are starting college this fall across the nation > >> were born in 1980. They have no meaningful recollection of the > >> Reagan era and did not know he had ever been shot. They were > >> prepubescent when the Persian Gulf War was waged. Black Monday > >> 1987 is as significant to them as the Great Depression. There > >> has only been one Pope. > >> > >> They can only really remember one president. They were 11 when > >> the Soviet Union broke apart and do not remember the Cold War. > >> They have never feared a nuclear war. "The Day After" is a pill > >> to them, not a movie. CCCP is just a bunch of letters. They have > >> only known one Germany. They are too young to remember the Space > >> shuttle blowing up, and Tienamin Square means nothing to them. > >> They do not know who Momar Qadafi is. > >> > >> Their lifetime has always included AIDS. They never had a Polio > >> shot and likely do not know what it is. Bottle caps have not > >> only always been screw off, but have always been plastic. They > >> have no idea what a pull top can looks like. Atari pre-dates > >> them, as do vinyl albums. The expression "you sound like a > >> broken record" means nothing to them. They have never owned a > >> record Player. They have likely never played Pac Man and have > >> never heard of Pong. Star Wars looks very fake, and the special > >> effects are pathetic. There have always been red M&M's, and blue > >> ones are not new. What do you mean there used to be beige ones? > >> > >> They may have heard of an 8-track, but chances are they probably > >> have never actually seen or heard one. The Compact Disc was > >> introduced when they were 1 year old. As far as they know, > >> stamps have always cost about 32 cents. > >> > >> Zip codes have always had a dash in them. They have always had an > >> answering machine. Most have never seen a TV set with only 13 > >> channels, nor have they seen a black and white TV. They have > >> always had cable. There have always been VCR's, but they have no > >> idea what Beta is. They cannot fathom not having a remote > >> control. They were born the year that Walkman were introduced by > >> Sony. Roller-skating has always meant inline for them. They have > >> never heard of King Cola, Burger Chef, The Globe Democrat, Pan > >> AM or Ozark Airlines. The Tonight Show has always been hosted by > >> Jay Leno. They have no idea when or why Jordache jeans were cool. > >> Popcorn has always been cooked in a microwave. > >> > >> They have never seen and remember a game that included the St. > >> Louis Football Cardinals, the Baltimore Colts, the Minnesota > >> North Stars, the Kansas City Kings, the New Orleans Jazz, the > >> Minnesota Lakers, the Atlanta Flames, or the Denver Rockies (NHL > >> hockey, that is). They do not consider the Colorado Rockies, the > >> Florida Marlins, the Florida Panthers, the Ottawa Senators, the > >> San Jose Sharks, or the Tampa Bay Lightning "expansion teams." > >> > >> They have never seen Larry Bird play, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is > >> a football player. They never took a swim and thought about > >> Jaws. The Vietnam War is as ancient history to them as WWI, WWII > >> or even the Civil War. They have no idea that Americans were > >> ever held hostage in Iran. They can't imagine what hard contact > >> lenses are. They don't know who Mork was or where he was from. > >> They never heard the terms "Where's the beef?", "I'd Walk a mile > >> for Camel", or "de plane, de plane!". They do not care who shot > >> J.R. and have no idea who J.R. is. The Cosby Show, The Facts of > >> Life, Silver Spoons, The Love Boat, Miami Vice, WKRP in > >> Cincinnati, and Taxi are shows they have likely never seen. > >> > >> The Titanic was found? I didn't know it was lost. Michael Jackson > >> has always been white. They cannot remember the Cardinals ever > >> winning a World Series, or even being in one. Kansas, Chicago, > >> Boston, America and Alabama are places, not groups. McDonalds > >> never came in Styrofoam containers. > >> > >> Do you feel old now? Remember, the people who don't know these > >> things will be in college this year.  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26538; Fri, 14 Aug 98 15:05:32 EDT Received: from MUFASA.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09716; Fri, 14 Aug 98 15:05:58 EDT Received: by mufasa.mit.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/4.7) id PAA04491; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:06:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199808141906.PAA04491@mufasa.mit.edu> To: cluster-services@MIT.EDU Cc: f_l@MIT.EDU, "Naomi B. Schmidt" , sipb-office@MIT.EDU, athena-rcc@MIT.EDU Cc: oliver thomas Reply-To: oliver thomas X-Transcription: digital Subject: ieee symposium in w20 next week Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:06:09 EDT From: oliver thomas *** EOOH *** To: cluster-services@MIT.EDU Cc: f_l@MIT.EDU, "Naomi B. Schmidt" , sipb-office@MIT.EDU, athena-rcc@MIT.EDU Cc: oliver thomas Reply-To: oliver thomas X-Transcription: digital Subject: ieee symposium in w20 next week Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:06:09 EDT From: oliver thomas hi everyone, just wanted to send a final heads up on the IEEE symposium being held in the student center next week. brian's probably filled you in on all the details already, but i wanted to send you a copy of the sheet the conference attendees are going to get for reference. the account they will be using is "confer". they will all be using the same account for that one week, and the account has been set up with some customizations to minimize problems (hopefully). i'm going to go by W20-575 tomorrow afternoon sometime to put reserved signs up in the back room of the cluster. the sipb will have some copies of the handouts, and the conference folks will have staff in and around the cluster the whole week. the organizer/contact for the conference is bob bruen . i already sent a big long explanation about the symposium to sipb a couple of weeks ago, but if you would like more info or another copy, let me know. cheers, oliver ====================================================================== USING THE CONFERENCE ATHENA ACCOUNT The back room of the W20-575 Athena cluster has been reserved for conference par ticipants for the duration of the conference. This room holds about 40 Athena workstations (SUN SPARCstations and Silicon Graphics Indys). See the map below for location details. The Fifth Floor of the MIT Student Center (W20-575) [Map goes here] If the reserved area is full during peak times, free Athena workstations in the general cluster may be used. All Athena clusters have a combination lock at the entrance door. (See table below for the combo.) You can log into these workstations using the conference account. Walk up to any idle workstation (it will be displaying either an idle screen or a login screen) and enter the conference username and password in the login window. Cluster combination: 36912* Username: confer Password: xxxxxx After login is complete, you will have a Netscape window open, and access to Telnet and SSH via the pop-up menu. To close your session and log out, click on the "Logout" button in the lower right corner of the screen. Please be sure to wear your conference badge while using Athena facilities. WHERE TO GO FOR HELP If you run into problems, try to find one of the conference staff members who ar e on duty in the cluster for help. If you cannot find a conference staff member in the cluster, you can try reaching conference staff over the phone at: (617) 253-4070 (3-4070 from a campus phone, Bob's office) (617) 504-3861 (Bob's cell phone) or you can call the Athena User Accounts office during regular business hours at: (617) 253-9682 (3-9682 from a campus phone) Thank you, and have fun. PLEASE RETURN THIS SHEET TO A CONFERENCE STAFF MEMBER AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE CONFERENCE.  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23266; Fri, 14 Aug 98 16:58:31 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09785; Fri, 14 Aug 98 16:59:03 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA22772; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mike Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Review of South Anglia's "Princess Ida", 13th Aug X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mike Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Review of South Anglia's "Princess Ida", 13th Aug X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 South Anglia have gained a good reputation at the Festival over the years (winning outright two years ago with "Yeomen"), so I had high hopes for this production. However, overall I was disappointed. It was a Curate's Egg - very good in parts, but there were many places where it seemed to lack the necessary sparkle; and there were things that were downright poor. Basically, it was a traditional performance, with mediaeval costumes and sets. I didn't detect any updated references at all. Costumes and sets were very good indeed. A nice variety of costumes for the chorus, which looked good and which the wearers seemed comfortable in. The chorus sang well all the way through, and all their words were crystal clear. However, a few smiles wouldn't have come amiss, be they idealistic smiles from the girl graduates in the opening of Act 2, or fierce smiles from Hildebrand's soldiers in the Act 2 Finale. Perhaps this was one of the things that made me feel, subconsciously, that the show lacked sparkle. The chorus movements were well thought out, but not always well executed - the opening chorus being the most ragged in this respect. Apparently the society had not had as much opportunity for rehearsal as usual. Movements in principals' numbers (such as "I Am A Maiden") were much more accurately put over. The two outstanding performers were Mick Wilson as Hilarion and Paul Lazell as Arac. Both sang extremely well and put over their characters admirably. Mr. Wilson's Hilarion was a strong, energetic, romantically-minded prince, not above enjoying a bit of fun with his friends. The three sons of Gama worked very well as a team, being blessed with superb armour which clanked and rattled like orchestral percussion instruments as they stomped around the stage in time with the music. Their apperance was very much out of the original D'OC production, not only the armour but also the beards and the bald heads. Mr. Lazell's singing of "This Helmet I Suppose" was magic, and seemed so effortless... Then there were a number of performers who were reasonable without being anything to write home about. These included Mark Bordell as Hildebrand, Howard Brooks as Florian, Alison Brewer as Psyche and Elaine Lazell as Melissa. They worked hard and produced solid performances, supporting each other well but not being especially memorable. Peter Wilson as Cyril was funny but his voice was not up to the mark. He seemed to be struggling with the part and trying to compensate by bellowing - this meant that his tuning was very suspect in places, he tended to race ahead of the conductor and it destroyed the balance in the trios with Hilarion and Florian. I thought he showed promise - if he can relax into the part more, he might produce a much more pleasing sound and make a better contribution to the overall effect. Blanche (Eileen Barks-Marner) also was a likeable character but not so strong musically. She had a pleasing enough contralto voice but her diction wasn't as good as most of the others. I didn't catch more than half the words of "Come Mighty Must". She blended well with Melissa in "Now Wouldn't You Like To Rule The Roast", however. Princess Ida (Christine Anson), again, was not crystal clear in all her diction, though she got better as the show progressed. She had a very powerful and tuneful soprano voice, a bit heavier to my ears than one usually hears in the role (didn't someone suggest a while back that it might be interesting to have a Wagnerian soprano sing Ida?). On the other hand, her characterization was somewhat patchy. She was great in the "fiery" bits, but when it came to the final "romantic" exchange with Hilarion (very well staged with the stage in darkness and a spotlight illuminating just the two of them, making it a much more intimate moment) she spoke the lines without much expression of any kind. I hated Pat O'Connell as King Gama, I'm sorry to say. Either he or the director (Derek Collins) or both seemed to be of the school that thinks it's hysterically funny to have a patter man who can't - or won't - sing a note in tune all evening. It's Gilbert AND SULLIVAN, for goodness' sake! There was no alteration in tone of voice or dynamics in his performance, either, and no real attempt to put over a character, except for the obvious lurching about dictated by his appearance (humped back, Richard III wig) and by a few gurgles and snorts, reminiscent of Rik Mayall. Overall, an evening which, under other circumstances I would have felt reasonably happy with, but given South Anglia's past glories I couldn't help but feel a little short-changed. Mike.  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22645; Sat, 15 Aug 98 18:50:00 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18896; Sat, 15 Aug 98 18:49:42 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA06593; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808152241.XAA17670@zeus.netdirect.net.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New Cox and Box CD X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: New Cox and Box CD X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 I listened to the 'new' CD issue of Cox and Box (available from Stephen Turnbull) whilst driving to Buxton today. Here are a few comments. The three performers are very solid, although I felt that Cox and Box (Leon Berger and Ian Kennedy) were a little too alike in characterisation - possibly owing to this being a straighter reading of the lib than the loveable performances of Styler and Riordan in the classic 61 recording of the Savoy Edition. This is not to the detriment of either of the players on this recording, both read and sing their parts well and with confidence, indeed the performances on this recording are infinitely better than their 'oppos' on the lacklustre second DC recording, and the miscast G & S For All recording - Dear Donald Adams, fabulous as he was as Bouncer, is just not quite right on record as Cox, and Tom Round's voice is far too closely recorded to be make pleasant listening IMO. BTW I don't think many people realised that Joe Riordan was in Buxton last week - he kept a low profile. Donald Francke as Bouncer, although lacking Adams' bubble, is otherwise as good as any Bouncer I have heard on record or seen in performance. It is great to hear all those bars that are usually cut from the songs we are already familiar with, and also interesting to hear the original lullaby although I prefer the more usual version of this item. As far as I am aware this is the only commerciaI 'audio' issue to include the Gambling Duet, and this is delivered as well as the other items on this disc. As may be gathered from above, I have the 2 DC and the Round/Adams recordings (also the BW video which DOES include this duet) - I'd have to check Marc's discog to see what is included on the recordings I do not yet have. I also appreciated the accompaniment of a period piano on this set. The G & S For All recording which uses a piano always strikes me as just being a cutback, whereas its use in this original version added to the authenticity of the recording. I really felt I was present at that first performance of 1866. I believe this 1984 recording is now available on CD mainly due to the efforts of Leon Berger (Cox on this recording - and I understand an occasional Savoynetter, as well as a performer in the recent Hollywood Pinafore in London) and Stephen Turnbull (no intro necessary). My thanks to you both. I am delighted to add this recording to my collection and hope anyone reading who does not already have a copy will make efforts to obtain it. Chris  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27048; Sat, 15 Aug 98 20:31:24 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15363; Sat, 15 Aug 98 20:31:57 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA09082; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808152022_MC2-5633-F5D9@compuserve.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: PZavon@compuserve.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Peter Zavon To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Buxton Concert and Awards Ceremony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: PZavon@compuserve.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Peter Zavon To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Buxton Concert and Awards Ceremony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The last formal event of the 5th Festival at Buxton was the Concert and Awards Ceremony. While some tickets had been printed with a 7:30 start, the presence of the Festival Ruddigore beginning at 4 pm required the Concert to begin at 8 pm. To split the difference, Ian Smith announced "singing from the gallery" would begin at 7:45. When that time arrived, and no official was present to begin the singing, Sam Silvers and Don Smith began a spontaneous rendition of "When the Foeman Bares His Steel." The Dress Circle joining in strongly. Andrew Nicklin then led the singing from the stage. There followed "Ring Forth Ye Bells," Eagle High," and "Dance a Cachucha." The concert by the Derby G&S Company was a black tie affair for the members of the company arrayed on stage. They began with "Hail, Poetry." This was followed by three pieces related to flowers, three related to courtship, and three related to the moon - all themes widely used in poetry. The program was: There Grew A Little Flower, from Ruddigore The Flowers That Bloom in the Spring, from Mikado I won't Send Roses, from Mac and Mable Where I Thy Bride, from Yeomen Oy, But Oi Du Loik Yu, from Sorcerer Nothing is Going to Harm you, from Sweeney Todd Fair Moon, To the I Sing, from Pinafore, but performed in the style of an after Naval maneuvers bar in Montego Bay The Moon and I, from Mikado, performed by Bronwen Evans as the Deby soprano was unable to participate Moon River. This was followed by a short, humorous description of how a fellow disposedof the contents of 14 bottles of beer. Then Christine Nicklin presented a Xylophone piece called On the Track. Following this was a 37 minute piece written by Andrew Nicklin and called "Trial by Concept," refering to the "Concept Show," as opposed to the "Traditional Show." The opening lines ran something like the following: Hark, the hour of seven is sounding Buxton Opera House surrounding American and European Summoned here by Neil and Ian It just got beter from there. The concert was concluded with Derby G&S Company's traditional concert ending piece, What I did For Love, from Company. After an intermission, the formal Awards Ceremony began with comments, thanks and announcements from Ian Smith. The announcements included the following: --The 1999 festival WILL be in Buxton, during about the same period, but the speciic dates have not been firmly set. Those on the Festival mailing list will receive a newsletter in about 10 days with the specifics, as well as the official list of award winners. -- The International Championswill be guests at and invited to participate in the NODA Centenary to be held in London in May 1999. -- Next year (1999) the festival will mount a tour to the US, going to Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, and Washington, DC, and perhaps other venues. The tour will be sometime after May 1999, will involve the Professional Company, if I heard Ian correctly, and Valerie Masterson, Gillian Knight, Thomas Round and John Reed have all agreed to participate, health permitting. At each city they will involve the local G&S Societies and conclude with a series of weekend events which will be something like a mini-Festival. Details to be announced later. Awards were given to young participants by the Friends of the G&S Festival, based on results from a panel of judges. All performers in the festival who were less than 19 years of age were elligible for these awards. Female Youth Award - Emma Westhead, St. Mary's RC High School - Pirates of Penzance (Ruth) Male Youth Award - Andrew Dand, St. Mary's RC High School - Pirates of Penzance (Pirate King) 5th International G&S Festival Buxton, Derbyshire, England Nominations and Awards International Champion Trent Opera - Patience First Runner Up Houston G&S Society - Yeomen of the Guard Second Runner Up Derby G&S Company - Pirates of Penzance Adjudicator's Discretionary Award St. Mary's RC High School for Priates of Penzance, for their enthusiasm and talent Best Amateur Producer Andrew Nicklin, Trent Opera - Patience Best Professional Producer Alistair Donkin, Houston G&S Society - Yeomen of The Guard For the Awards listed below, all three nominees are listed, with the winner indicated by an asterisk Best Musical Director Christine Nicklin, Trent Opera - Patience **Robert Linder , Houston G&S Society - Yeomen of the Guard Brian Brown, South Anglia Savoy Players - Princess Ida Best Male Performer Andrew Booth, Trent Opera - Patience (Bunthorne) Tony Smith, Lincoln G&S Society - Cox & Box (Bouncer) ** Steven Goodward, Derby G&S company - Pirates of Penzance (Sergeant of Police) Best Female Performer **Bronwen Evans, Festival Production - Ruddigore (Rose Maybud) Deborah Norman, Derby G&S Company - Pirates of Penzance (Mabel) Kitty Karn, Houston G&S Society - Yeomen of the Guard (Phoebe) Best Supporting Actor **Howard Turnbull, Festival Production - Ruddigore (Despard) Tony Smith, Lincoln G&S Society - Cox & Box (Bouncer) Colin Sly, Southampton G&S Society - Sorcerer (Sir Marmaduke) Best Supporting Actress Emma Westhead, St. Mary's RC High School - Pirates of Penzance (Ruth) **Kitty Karn, Houston G&S Society - Yeomen of the Guard (Phoebe) Leah Tsamoun, Houston G&S Society - Yeomen of the Guard (Dame Carruthers) Best Character Actor Pat O'Connell, South Anglia Savoy Players - Princess Ida (Gama) Patrick Dawson, South Yorkshire Savoy Players - Princess Ida (Gama) **Andrew Booth, Trent Opera - Patience (Bunthorne) Best Character Actress Julia Foster, Festival Production - Ruddigore (Mad Margaret) Lynn Armitage, The Pennine Players - The Zoo (Eliza Smith) **Judith Savournin, Festival Production - Ruddigore (Dame Hanah) Best Male Voice Paul Lazell, South Anglia Savoy Players - Princess Ida (Arac) David Parkins, Trent Opera -Patience (The Duke of Dunstable) **Nick Sales, Savoynet - Trial By Jury (Defendant) Best Female Voice **Deborah Norman, Trent Opera - Patience (Patience) Glay Marie Posch, Houston G&S Society - Yeomen of the Guard (Elsie) Alison Vincent, Southampton G&S Society - Sorcerer (Aline) Best Concerted Item Hail Poetry, St. Mary's RC High School - Pirates of Penzance ** I Hear the Soft Note, Trent Opera - Patience Hail Poetry, Derby G&S company - Pirates of Penzance Best Chorus/Chorale Houston G&S Society - Yeomen of the Guard The Pennine Players - The Zoo **Trent Opera - Patience Best Animated Chorus Trent Opera - Patience Abbots Langley G&S Society - Gondoliers **St. Mary's RC High School - Pirates of Penzance This ends my reports from the 5th International G&S Festival. Video Tapes of the performances will be available in NTSC (North American format) from Musical Collectables American office when it is reactivated within the next month or so. Detailed information will be available later. Peter Zavon Penfield, NY PZAVON@Compuserve.com Still packing to leave Buxton in the early hours of Sunday morning  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03997; Sat, 15 Aug 98 23:12:27 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24570; Sat, 15 Aug 98 23:13:00 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA12741; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35D64CB7.18F86EEA@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: New Cox and Box CD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id XAA12741 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: New Cox and Box CD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu id XAA12741 My feelings about this CD are a bit less enthusiastic than Chris Webster's, and as I had been contemplating a full review anyway, now seems as good a time as any. The recording features three top-class singers, with Kenneth Barclay accompanying on a vintage piano. As the liner notes observe, it was made "in a Victorian drawing-room with the performers using real doors, windows, curtains, and all the appropriate domestic props--much as it would have been first given at the informal presentation at Burnand's house in 1866 [i.e., the premiere]." Textually, the recording is a bit dishonest. It includes the duet "Stay, Bouncer, stay," even though this number is known to have been written later. Yet, it omits the overture (also written later), so that the opera begins straight away with dialogue. I have to assume that, at the first performance, the composer most likely extemporised some type of musical introduction. So, the recording might as well have included Sullivan's actual overture, to avoid what is otherwise a very awkward start. I agree with Chris that the artists playing Cox and Box are not sufficiently differentiated, and this makes their long dialogue scenes a bit monotonous. They both underplay woefully. Contrasted with Donald Francke's Bouncer, who overplays terribly, the recording lacks dramatic balance. These problems are less evident in the musical passages, and it is nice to have the entire score, down to the last Rataplan, on a commercial CD. However, I feel that a recording with full orchestra is still needed, so the best I can say at the moment is "Modified Rapture!" You can obtain the CD from the Sir Arthur Sullivan Society, or from the publisher, http://members.aol.com/DivineArts/. It is Divine Art 2-4104. Not coincidentally, the Manchester Branch of the Gilbert and Sullivan Society has re-issued in facsimile the Second Edition of the vocal score. This edition contains the fullest version of the text (including the overture and "Stay, bouncer, stay"). In addition, the original version of the lullaby, which is heard on the CD, is offered as an appendix. The score is a steal at =A313.00. Write to R. J. Walker, 6 Lindow Fold Drive, Wilmslow, Cheshire SK9 6DT, England. Or, call (44 1625) 530030. The same group have also re-issued two other long out-of-print Sullivan vocal scores, "The Window" at =A312.50, and "The Contrabandista" at =A313.00. --=20 Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: marc.shepherd@ssmb.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04759; Sun, 16 Aug 98 14:03:41 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14588; Sun, 16 Aug 98 14:03:22 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA05077; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35D71D73.D0E24252@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Creeping, Crawling oot of the closet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Creeping, Crawling oot of the closet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Peter Weglarski raises the fascinating dichotomy of the U.S. Festivals: that they were a delight for nearly all who attended or performed, yet they were financial failures. When I wrote: "I sincerely hope that the experiments with American venues are done for good," I was speaking in strictly economic terms. Notwithstanding the organizers' myriad mistakes, I have come to conclude that a break-even (much less a profitable) U.S. Festival on the lines of what has been achieved in Buxton is impossible to achieve. I realize that there may be a few who believe otherwise, but I challenge anyone to find a parallel, or to submit a business plan with any specificity. My fear is that if the Buxton Festival organizers keep plowing their capital into the impossible, they will run out of the emotional or financial wherewithal to continue the one institution that DOES seem viable in the long term, the Festival at Buxton. While my heart would love to see G&S Festivals every year, in every English-speaking country, my head tells me that this can't happen. Even the most successful non-G&S festivals that I'm aware of are content to repeat and expand upon their success in just ONE place. That's what I think Ian Smith's organization to do. I understand from Peter Zavon's report that a sort of "travelling Festival" is set to come to the U.S. next year, but it appears that this is a Festival in name only, being essentially a tour of the professionals. (Not that this is anything to pooh-pooh, but it is not the Festival as we have known it.) -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: marc.shepherd@ssmb.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19451; Sun, 16 Aug 98 17:46:06 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27448; Sun, 16 Aug 98 17:46:38 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA11983; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mike Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mike Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 Hi gang, OK, it's all over, and we've returned home. Once again, I'd like to thank everyone for all their input and hard work. But we need to look to the future already. Based on what Ian Smith said at last night's Awards Ceremony, we will need to move fast. The official deadline for applications to perform at the 1999 Festival will be November 1st. There will not be an official American leg to the Festival; instead the G&S Opera Co. will do a tour of (if memory serves me right) New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Washington (I assume Ian means D.C.). So we will be looking to perform in Buxton again. There appears to be much more international interest to perform at next year's Festival than there was this year, so competition for slots will almost certainly be much more fierce. Most Savoynetters who have commented so far on the subject are in favour of doing a full-length opera next year, going one bigger and better than this year, in keeping with the way things have gone since 1996 (from Festival Club Pot-Luck to fully-staged Cox & Box in the Paxton Theatre to fully-staged Trial By Jury in the Buxton Opera House). Opinion is divided as to which. Having talked to Ian it would be better if we could offer him a choice of two or even three, with clear instructions as to WHEN we could perform, as this allows him greater flexibility to slot us in. We are in a stronger position than most regular societies in this respect as we aren't tied down to performing our most recent local production. Let's think about a few basic criteria:- 1) A full-length show will require more commitment from its participants. With Trial, we managed with three mornings (not counting partial meet-ups before the Festival started) in which all the blocking was described and finalised. Everyone (well, nearly everyone) knew their music in advance, of course. This allowed us to attend other things at the Festival as well. But a full-length show will certainly require a full week of rehearsal, morning AND afternoon, like a Festival production. Of course, some of these rehearsals will be chorus-only and some will be principals-only, so few people will be required to be at every rehearsal. But everyone who commits him/herself to be in the show must be prepared to put in the hours. We did a good job with Trial but it wasn't perfect, and we can - and must! - do better. 2) For this reason, we cannot perform during the first week of the Festival. If we were scheduled for nearer the end, then we could have a choice of (say) six days of intensive rehearsal or (say) ten days of not-quite-so-intensive rehearsal. This is a matter for us to decide, though I imagine that relatively few would be able to come for the whole Festival (or even most of it) and so most would probably favour a shorter, more intensive rehearsal period. 3) The choice of show. First of all, I don't think we can seriously entertain something that isn't mainstream (such as good ol' Ages Ago). We couldn't guarantee that everyone would know it without scores/libs before arriving in Buxton. Since we would be the only attraction of the evening instead of just one-third, it would need to be spot on, and a patchy show that half the cast didn't know properly would be the way to ensure we don't get asked back again. I believe very strongly that involved and precise choreography routines are a mistake when you have such a limited time for rehearsal. They either work perfectly or not at all, and to work perfectly they need lots and lots of rehearsal. (Trial was a good choice in this respect as it doesn't need any complicated choreography to make it work.) Gondoliers is definitely out. Mikado, Iolanthe and Pirates, whilst not requiring dancing in the way Gondoliers does, still need lots of precise movement to make them come alive, so I personally would reject them too. Utopia Ltd. and Grand Duke are out because relatively few people know them and they require too many principals - we have plenty of principal-calibre Savoynetters, all itching to do a leading role, but we'd have no chorus left! Princess Ida also requires more principals than usual, and I think would be a bit too demanding for our first full-length show. We can walk, but let's canter before we gallop. Ruddigore also requires a fair bit of choreography (Act 1 Finale, plus all the Bridesmaids' bits, if you'll pardon the expression); there is also the difficulty of staging the Ghost Scene. If we had our own set we could work it all out in advance, but we will have to use (for practical reasons) the set the Festival would provide for us; we will have drawings of the set, of course, but it's never the same as being able to actually rehearse with the set itself, which we wouldn't be able to do until the day of the show itself. Of course, if anyone could think of an original and dramatic way of allowing the ghosts to appear that didn't involve the portraits, so well and good; but having all the men's chorus simply walk on from the wings would be a definite loser. So we're left with (IMO):- Sorcerer HMS Pinafore Patience Yeomen I fully appreciate that you may not agree with my conclusions thus far; but please let's not let the discussion degenerate into something like "Princess Ida is my favourite show, I want to do it and if we don't I won't play." We have to be practical. If anyone can see a way to realistically rehearse to the required standard in the time available one of the shows I've rejected, then say so, and SAY HOW IT CAN BE DONE. Equally, if anyone can see a reason why any one of the above four could not be done, say so. Of the above four, Yeomen is clearly the hardest, both musically and dramatically. Pinafore is the most well-known and from that point of view the easiest, but I get the feeling from various people that it wouldn't be a particularly popular choice (especially from the point of view of the ladies' chorus; also there are only two and a half ladies' principal parts). Patience, OTOH, has nothing except Finale Act 2 for the men's chorus (though it's never bothered me - I like doing Patience). Sorcerer is usually done with pyrotechnics for the magic scene but I don't think this is necessary. So my first choice would be Sorcerer, followed by Patience. Comments, everyone? 4) Casting. This will be a more difficult thing to sort out than it was for Trial, as all the longer shows have dialogue, and characterization is much more of an issue. With Trial we were able to manage with audio tapes but that won't be enough here. I can think of three ways of managing it (if anyone can think of any others, please say so):- (a) We don't cast principal parts until the first day we meet in Buxton, like a Festival production. On the first day we hold auditions then announce the cast immediately afterwards. This is technically the easiest way of doing things and allows everyone to audition "on a level playing field" as someone on Savoynet once described it. OTOH it means people may be dreadfully disappointed if they'd set their hearts on a particular part and then fail to get it after arriving in Buxton. (It took me four days to get over the disappointment of not getting Robin Oakapple in the Festival Ruddigore, FWIW.) (b) Prospective principals send VIDEO tapes of themselves in suitable roles to the stage director and musical director. This has all sorts of problems: the quality of the videos will vary greatly, especially with respect to sound quality, and people may feel "they can't do themselves justice"; people may not have easy access to camcorders, if they don't have a performance video suitable; also there's the old PAL/NTSC compatibility problem. (c) We arrange a day for auditions in each country (perhaps in more than one venue for the US or Australia). Anyone wishing to audition for a principal part must attend one of these events. They will be videoed, and then a single tape can be forwarded from each venue to the stage director and musical director, wherever they may be. This is something of a compromise between (a) and (b) but it does require people to be available for an audition event. However, if anyone could not attend but still wished to be considered, they could always send a video of something suitable to the organiser of the audition event to be copied onto the "master" audition tape. Whatever we do, we must make up our minds QUICKLY. I suggest we discuss the matter over the next two weeks, then come to a conclusion by the end of August. That way, we have the whole of September to put out the feelers to the Smiths, and modify our plans if necessary, well before the November 1st deadline. OK, folks, here we go... Mike.  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09664; Sun, 16 Aug 98 23:11:10 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24376; Sun, 16 Aug 98 23:11:43 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA22218; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35D79626.37DAE8AF@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Mike Nash has done a stupendous job laying out the challenges and options for the 1999 Savoynet Show. I would like to suggest that everyone responding indicate whether they most likely would, or would not, be available for the chorus, assuming a six-day rehearsal period. Chorus is key, because I shall assume that principals can be cast no matter what. And, obviously, it can only be a "most likely" given that the precise dates aren't known. (In my own case, I most likely *won't* be able to do it, much as I'd like to try.) Incidentally, given the constraints Mike has laid out, it's conceivable that the rehearsal period for the Savoynet show would overlap the Festival production, and hence, it's possible that anyone in either show wouldn't be able to do the other. We don't know that for sure, but it's a scenario to bear in mind. I basically concur in Mike's analysis of the choice of show. In future years, I don't think there's any reason to shy away from shows that are "dance" heavy. All of those that Mike rejected for that reason have been done as Festival Productions in past years. However, these are definitely harder; best to save them for the future. I would rule out YEOMEN. It's far too complex an opera for our first full-length outing. SORCERER is basically within Savoynet's capabilities. There is only one challenging ensemble scene for the chorus--the opening of Act II--and it would certainly be possible to do THAT much in a week. But, SORCERER is a delicate animal, hard to do well. I would be more comfortable if we chose PINAFORE or PATIENCE. Mike says that PINAFORE would be an unpopular choice, and so I land on PATIENCE, which is comparatively straightforward to stage and is evenly balanced with five principals of each sex. Therefore, PATIENCE is my recommendation, but I wouldn't jump up and down objecting if SORCERER or PINAFORE were chosen. As for auditions, option (c) strikes me as best (see Mike's mail), assuming we can work out the logistics. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: marc.shepherd@ssmb.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04731; Mon, 17 Aug 98 10:29:08 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03580; Mon, 17 Aug 98 10:29:40 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA11117; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <98Aug17.102008edt.13841-2@gateway.intersys.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: Mary_Finn@intersys.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mary Finn To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: SavonyNet Production at Buxton in 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Mary_Finn@intersys.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mary Finn To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: SavonyNet Production at Buxton in 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 My opinions and comments, for what they are worth. I speak as someone who is going to try very hard to attend a portion of the Buxton festival next year, and would be thrilled to be part of a SavoyNet production. 1) I hate to start by throwing cold water, but do we know if SavoyNet will even exist next year? There's no harm in planning a production under the assumption that some kind soul will step forward to take up Rafe's listmaster duties, but I haven't heard that anyone has actually done so. It's something to keep in mind. 2) When we choose a show, we need to know up front if we have people who are willing to direct. Mike Nash -- You got the ball rolling on this subject. Does that mean that you are offering to direct again? By all accounts you did a grand job with TBJ, and SavoyNet would be lucky to have you again. Ditto David Cound as music director. 3) I agree with Mike's reasoning about what shows would be "doable" as a first full-length effort for SavoyNet. Of the four he listed (Sorcerer, Patience, Pinafore, Yeomen) my vote goes to Yeomen for purely personal reasons: I would *dearly* love to play Phoebe. However, I would happy as either principal or chorus in any of the four -- maybe slightly less happy in Pinafore than in the others. 4) I also agree that initially we should offer the Smiths a choice: say Yeomen or Patience or Sorcerer? 5) Re auditions: I would prefer either casting the principals once we get to Buxton (although the point about costuming is an excellent one) or Mike's option C -- holding videotaped auditions in multiple locations. I am one of those people who does not already have a video that even comes close to doing me justice. (On the other hand, I am famous for choking in auditions, so maybe option C isn't such a good idea.) The main problem with option C is the expense, and even more importantly the time, of traveling to another city to audition. My stay at Buxton will be somewhat limited because of money, and the amount of time I can reasonably take off from work. Traveling to auditions will cut into that. 6) Re rehearsing: I'm willing to make an intense effort, if we can shorten the rehearsal period as much as possible. I will not be able to attend the whole festival. ALSO: 7) On August 11, 1999, there will be a total eclipse of the sun visible from much of northern Europe. The path of totality passes through Cornwall, Northen France, Austria, and on into Turkey. I plan to see it, either from Cornwall (I thought perhaps Penzance? Wouldn't it be cool to gather there and sing a concert of G&S songs that refer to the sun and/or moon?) or from someplace in France. In any event, I will not be at Buxton from about August 10th onwards. (There will be a partial eclipse in Buxton, of course, but I've seen a partial eclipse. It would silly to be so close to the path of totality without making the effort to see it.) Because of these plans, if the Festival is held at "approximately the same time" next year, I assume that I will unable to participate in the Festival production, even if I were cast. I humbly request that we try to schedule our SavoyNet production for a date on or before August 9th. Food for thought. ***************************************************************** Mary A. Finn phone: 617-225-3052 Senior Marketing Writer fax: 617-494-1631 InterSystems Corp. email: finn@intersys.com ******************************************************************  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04795; Mon, 17 Aug 98 10:29:22 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26762; Mon, 17 Aug 98 10:29:02 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA11218; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980817152920.00c5a108@enteract.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: dcraven@tradelaw.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Craven To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: dcraven@tradelaw.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Craven To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) At 05:45 PM 8/16/1998 -0400, Mike Nash wrote: > >Based on what Ian Smith said at last night's Awards Ceremony, we will need >to move fast. The official deadline for applications to perform at the 1999 >Festival will be November 1st. I would be glad to do what I can to help. That being said, I will be off the net from September 1 through November 15 and quite frankly out of touch. (I am going to do a legal project in Southern Africa and will be in Zambia, Zimbabwae, Namibia, Uganda, and Malawai.... and I don't think I will have very good, if any, net access, as I have already determined that I have bad phone access). When do you want firm and definite commitments about being in Buxton? > >2) For this reason, we cannot perform during the first week of the Festival. >If we were scheduled for nearer the end, then we could have a choice of >(say) six days of intensive rehearsal or (say) ten days of >not-quite-so-intensive rehearsal. This is a matter for us to decide, though >I imagine that relatively few would be able to come for the whole Festival >(or even most of it) and so most would probably favour a shorter, more >intensive rehearsal period. This makes a good deal of sense. I have had some experience with putting on G&S in short rehearsal periods and if people KNOW the music, often times, the blocking can be done quickly, particularly if it is not "timed-blocking" (aka Theater for the Deaf), but rather a more naturalistic style and the performers are good at thinking on their feet. y would be the way to ensure we don't >get asked back again. > >I believe very strongly that involved and precise choreography routines are >a mistake when you have such a limited time for rehearsal. True. Also you need a good choreographer.... and I don't know if Aaron Hunt is coming to the festival... > >Of the above four, Yeomen is clearly the hardest, both musically and >dramatically. Pinafore is the most well-known and from that point of view >the easiest, but I get the feeling from various people that it wouldn't be a >particularly popular choice (especially from the point of view of the >ladies' chorus; also there are only two and a half ladies' principal parts). >Patience, OTOH, has nothing except Finale Act 2 for the men's chorus (though >it's never bothered me - I like doing Patience). Sorcerer is usually done >with pyrotechnics for the magic scene but I don't think this is necessary. >So my first choice would be Sorcerer, followed by Patience. Comments, >everyone? I think Yeomen, because of a variety of issues, including complexity of costume, would actually drop below Iolanthe and Mikado as well.. My own ranking would be Sorcerer: None of the principal parts are overwhelming and many don't require a great deal of heavy interaction with the chorus. As such, with a good director and assistant director, it can be rehearsed in a very efficient fashion. It also can be done very well with virtually no choreography (I will be glad to send out the Hyde Park Video Tape) and the chorus parts are fun, but not overly complex. Patience has the advantage of not needing a large chorus, particularly of men. If necessary, one can have a chorus of five additional strong men (3 tenors 1 bari and 1 bass) and adding in the three officers... have two voices to a part. Mikado has similar advantages to Patience. With principals you have just about all of the chorus parts partially covered.... Pinafore... welllll the women's parts really aren't that good... But I agree with those who suggest that we should give Ian a choice... >(a) We don't cast principal parts until the first day we meet in Buxton, >like a Festival production. On the first day we hold auditions then announce >the cast immediately afterwards. This is technically the easiest way of >doing things and allows everyone to audition "on a level playing field" as >someone on Savoynet once described it. OTOH it means people may be >dreadfully disappointed if they'd set their hearts on a particular part and >then fail to get it after arriving in Buxton. (It took me four days to get >over the disappointment of not getting Robin Oakapple in the Festival >Ruddigore, FWIW.) This is clearly the way to go... with the added requirement that the festival production has of having people only audition for roles that they know....  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02908; Mon, 17 Aug 98 13:56:37 EDT Received: from universe.digex.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22470; Mon, 17 Aug 98 13:56:16 EDT Received: (from elf@localhost) by universe.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA12684; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:53:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:53:22 -0400 From: "J. Sieracki" Message-Id: <199808171753.NAA12684@universe.digex.net> To: ArcaneKnow@aol.com, DonnaH@microhouse.com, cj@sftlaw.com, dbrandford@kenan.com, deb@pobox.com, hstaecker@yahoo.com, jkaplan@clintoncomputer.com, kdavis7@juno.com, kwagner@aec.umd.edu, mbahe@ci.aurora.co.us, mgsgjjg@erols.com, natter@pressroom.com, noblessa@yahoo.com, opus@MIT.EDU, ticorp@erols.com, wiggo@juno.com, wjbagaria@venable.com Subject: Songs (Re: 80's Trivia....!) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:53:22 -0400 From: "J. Sieracki" To: ArcaneKnow@aol.com, DonnaH@microhouse.com, cj@sftlaw.com, dbrandford@kenan.com, deb@pobox.com, hstaecker@yahoo.com, jkaplan@clintoncomputer.com, kdavis7@juno.com, kwagner@aec.umd.edu, mbahe@ci.aurora.co.us, mgsgjjg@erols.com, natter@pressroom.com, noblessa@yahoo.com, opus@MIT.EDU, ticorp@erols.com, wiggo@juno.com, wjbagaria@venable.com Subject: Songs (Re: 80's Trivia....!) Cleaning out my in box, I came upon a related item to your 80's trivia list from from a few months back. --------------------- Subject: Do you know these songs? >> Below are 222 lines from 80s pop music songs. Your job is to guess >> the song and artist of each. Hint: No two songs are by the exact same >> artist and all were produced between 1980-1989. >> >> 1. Suckin on chili dogs outside the tastee-freez >> 2. I've done no harm, I keep to myself >> 3. There's a freeway runnin' through the yard >> 4. I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all >> 5. You mom threw away your best porno mag >> 6. Can you hear them? They talk about us, telling lies, well that's no >>surprise >> 7. One that won't make me nervous, wonderin what to do >> 8. Are you more than hot for me, or am I a page in your history (book) >> 9. I can hear you comin' I know what you're after >> 10. And it's true we are immune when fact is fiction and tv reality >> 11. Don't go around breaking young girls hearts >> 12. I've got my back against the record machine >> 13. You take me by the heart when you take me by the hand >> 14. A cloud appears above your head, a beam of light comes shining down >>on you >> 15. I'm lying in the rain, but I never wave bye-bye >> 16. He's the one that makes you feel alright >> 17. Are you happy, are you satisfied, how long can you stand the heat >> 18. I think I thought you were someone else >> 19. I tried my imagination but I was disturbed >> 20. I tell you one and one makes three >> 21. I'll be stretching my mouth to let those big words come right out >> 22. And though she will mess up your life, you want her just the same >> 23. You can listen as well as you hear >> 24. Think of the tender things that we were working on >> 25. They gave you life and in return you gave them hell >> 26. Knew he must've been about seventeen. >> 27. I am the maker of rules, dealing with fools >> 28. Can't get food for the king >> 29. Step on a crack, break your momma's back >> 30. Her hair reminds me of a warm safe place where as a child I'd lie >> 31. You're like the sun chasing all the rain away >> 32. Everyone you meet, they're jamming in the street >> 33. I'm not internationally known, but I'm known to rock a microphone >> 34. Every time I see you falling, I get down on my knees and pray >> 35. We'll take your car, yes we will, we'll take your car and drive it >> 36. I said to my reflection, Let's get out of this place >> 37. Easy ready willing overtime >> 38. The five years we've had have been such good times >> 39. Didn't know how lost I was until I found you >> 40. People of the world today are we looking for a better way of life >> 41. You in that dress, my thoughts I confess verge on dirty >> 42. I'm about to lose control and I think I like it >> 43. Write it on a pound note, pound note >> 44. We are strong, no one can tell us we're wrong >> 45. Out on the road today, I saw a deadhead sticker on a cadillac >> 46. Caught up in the action, I've been looking out for you >> 47. An invisible man sleeping in your bed >> 48. But somewhere sometime when you're curious, I'll be back around >> 49. I know her love is true but it's so damn easy makin' love to you >> 50. Oh mother dear we're not the fortunate ones >> 51. And incidents arose from circumstance >> 52. You know I like my girls a little bit older >> 53. You always live your life never thinking of the future >> 54. Now we're sharing the same dreams, and our hearts can beat as one >> 55. She don't need a man's touch >> 56. She'll get a hold on you believe it >> 57. You're everywhere but you're so hard to find >> 58. You want your percentage but I'm the fool paying the dues >> 59. No April rain, no flowers blooming, no wedding Saturday within the >>month of >> June >> 60. There's a skeleton chokin' on a crust of bread >> 61. With my body and soul I want you more than you'll ever know >> 62. I used to think maybe you loved me, now I know that its true >> 63. Animals strike curious poses >> 64. Religion is a light in the fog >> 65. I don't know where I'm going but I sure know where I've been >> 66. If you want to find all the cops, they're hanging out in the donut >>shop >> 67. And theres a heart thats breaking down this long distance line >>tonight >> 68. I'm always working slaving every day >> 69. Feel like I could run away, run away from this empty heart >> 70. Kick off your Sunday shoes >> 71. Daddy says she's too young, but she's old enough for me >> 72. He turned to me as if to say, "Hurry boy its waiting there for you" >> 73. You're not naive, you must be strong >> 74. Darken the city night is a wire, steam in the subway earth is afire >> 75. She had the body of a venus, Lord imagine my surprise >> 76. I can't help recalling how it felt to kiss and hold you tight >> 77. Will you meet him on the main line, or will you catch him on the >>rebound? >> 78. Watching every motion in this foolish lover's game >> 79. You make the sun shine brighter than Doris Day >> 80. Loving would be easy if your colours were like my dream, red, gold >>and green >> 81. They threw an American flag in our face >> 82. When I'm dancing close to her, I can smell the chemicals >> 83. She told me to come but I was already there >> 84. Streetlight people, living just to find emotion >> 85. It belongs to them, lets give it back >> 86. Everything you do is quite angelicate >> 87. Rolling like thunder under the covers >> 88. I don't know what you expect staring into the tv set >> 89. My eyes dilate, my lips go green >> 90. I touch you once, I touch you twice >> 91. To have you with me I would swim the seven seas >> 92. Crazy little woman in a one man show >> 93. Went the distance, now I'm back on my feet >> 94. Got in a little hometown jam, so they put a rifle in my hand >> 95. There is freedom within, there is freedom without >> 96. But whatever road you choose, I'm right beside you win or lose >> 97. I need fifty dollars to make you holler >> 98. So let's sink another drink, cause it'll give me time to think >> 99. Goddess on the mountaintop >> 100. Couldn't see how much I missed you (now I do) >> 101. They even bother my poor father cause he's down with me >> 102. Where can I find a woman like that >> 103. Paul, I think I told you, I'm a lover not a fighter >> 104. Mine's an ordinary life, working when its daylight and sleeping >>when its >> night >> 105. I had a whiskey on the rocks and change of a dollar for the >>jukebox >> 106. Just don't ask me how I am >> 107. Your lights are on but you're not home >> 108. Take your passion and make it happen >> 109. That little faggot he's a millionaire >> 110. I was wrong, now I find just one thing makes me forget >> 111. So if you're feeling low, turn up your radio >> 112. It's no better to be safe than sorry >> 113. Darlin' in my wildest dreams I never thought I'd go >> 114. The road is long, there are mountains in your way >> 115. The Salvation Army band played and the children drank lemonade >> 116. The more you live, the faster you will die >> 117. I've got a secret I've been hiding under my skin >> 118. I love you though you hurt me so >> 119. Wouldn't wanna be swept away, far away from the one that I love >> 120. The sheik he drove his cadillac >> 121. She showed me the beach, gave me a peach, and pulled out the >>suntan lotion >> 122. Two silhouettes saying goodnight by the garden gate >> 123. Have some more chicken, have some more pie >> 124. I asked the doctor to take your picture so I could look at you >>from the >> inside as well >> 125. Well its alright riding around in the breeze >> 126. I'm just going to keep counting until you are mine >> 127. Every time you call my name, I heat up like a burning flame >> 128. This is it boys, this is war >> 129. I can't understand what make a man hate another man >> 130. I can't sleep at night, I toss and turn >> 131. I know you really want to tell me goodbye >> 132. Food is served and you're stone cold munchin' >> 133. Don't let go while I'm hangin' on, cause I been hangin' on so long >> 134. We can dance, everybody look at your hands >> 135. I know a place where we can dance the whole night away underneath >>electric stars >> 136. I know a good thing must come to an end but its hard to take >>losing a friend >> 137. Well Superman looked up at me, he said "You rock so naturally" >> 138. You can say anything you like, but you can't touch the merchandise >> 139. You want a piece of my heart, you better start from start >> 140. But when the wrong word goes in the right ear, I know you been >>lyin to me >> 141. I follow where my mind goes >> 142. What's your definition of dirty baby >> 143. We'll leave the tv and the radio behind >> 144. All you sittin' in high places, the rains gonna fall on you >> 145. I turn the switch and check the number, I leave it on when in bed >>I slumber >> 146. So when the night falls, my lonely heart calls >> 147. So you better go back to your bars, your temples, your massage >>parlors >> 148. Did you really think about it before you made the rules >> 149. So you think my singing's out of time, well it makes me money >> 150. Across the north and south to Key Largo, love's for sale >> 151. Bermuda, Bahama, come on pretty mama >> 152. I swear that I could see forever in your eyes >> 153. Nothing had the chance to be good, nothing ever could >> 154. Take my license and all that jive >> 155. Well by the force of will my lungs are filled, and so I breathe >> 156. Dreams stay with you like a lover's voice fires the mountainside >> 157. No huggin', no kissin' til I get a wedding ring >> 158. I don't worry 'cause my wallet's fat >> 159. Sister's sighing in her sleep >> 160. Better make it fast or else I'm gonna get pissed >> 161. Wish I knew what you were looking for >> 162. What's your price for flight >> 163. I know a guy who's tough but sweet >> 164. And I had a feeling I could be someone, be someone, be someone >> 165. Why do I find it so hard to write the next line, oh I want the >>truth to be said >> 166. Every time he pulls me near, I just wanna cheer >> 167. Put the needle on the record >> 168. Whoa no, I've got to keep moving >> 169. Once upon a time there was light in my life, but now there's only >>love in >> the dark >> 170. I stain my sheets, I don't even know why >> 171. There were incidents and accidents, there were hints and >>allegations >> 172. I can't get any rest, people say I'm obsessed >> 173. She dances like she's never danced before >> 174. Do your fancy dances >> 175. Your moves are so raw, I've got to let you know you are my kind >> 176. Get up, get up, get up, get up, let's make love tonight >> 177. But when I win your heart, I'm gonna paint it cherry red >> 178. All the doors I closed on time will open up again >> 179. Dream of better lives, the kind which never hate >> 180. You can feel the punishment but you can't commit the sin >> 181. I'm not the one to tell you what's wrong and what's right >> 182. He wants me but only part of the time >> 183. People don't you know, don't you know its about time >> 184. You were the first, you'll be the last >> 185. You think you're mad, too unstable, kicking in chairs and >> knocking down tables >> 186. Your heart's been achin' but you're too shy to say it >> 187. The only one who'll hang out with me is my dear Old Grandad >> 188. Things are going great and they're only getting better >> 189. So you better treat her right >> 190. It's time to bring this ship into the shore and throw away the >>oars forever >> 191. We are the ones who make a brighter day, so let's start giving >> 192. We could dance and party all night and drink some cherry wine >> 193. Dressed up like a million dollar trooper >> 194. You've got to find a way, say what you want to say >> 195. Sail away with me to another world >> 196. I'll be your friend, I'll help you carry on >> 197. Welcome to the big time, you're bound to be a star >> 198. Yo no soy marinero, por ti sere, por ti sere, por ti sere >> 199. Work all day to earn his pay, so we can play all night >> 200. Ever since you've been leaving me, I've been wanting to cry >> 201. Baby baby when I look at you, I get a warm feeling inside >> 202. And when we hear the voices sing, the book of love will open up >>and let us >> in >> 203. Some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused >> 204. He's licking his lips, he's ready to win, on the hunt tonight for >>love at >> first sting >> 205. I have a picture pinned to my wall >> 206. I can see a new horizon underneath the blazin' sky >> 207. You'll flow down her river, she'll ask and you'll give her >> 208. Earth below us drifting falling floating weightless >> 209. Ooh baby, do you know what that's worth? >> 210. I know when to pull you closer and I know when to let you loose >> 211. Let me hear your body talk >> 212. Won't you pack your bags, we'll leave tonight >> 214. And if this world runs out of lovers, we'll still have each other >> 215. Is it so wrong to be human after all? >> 216. There is good and bad (mmmm-hmmm) in everyone >> 217. Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken >> 218. It's gonna take money, a whole lotta spening money >> 219. I'm not the kind of girl who gives up just like that >> 220. It must've been some kind of kiss, I shoulda walked away >> 221. You see it all around you, good lovin' gone bad >> 222. Ronny, Bobby, Ricky and Mike, if I like a girl, who cares who you >>like > >  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14951; Mon, 17 Aug 98 14:39:33 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18143; Mon, 17 Aug 98 14:40:06 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA20478; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: lber@conncoll.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Lisa Berglund To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: <199808171458.KAA03556@admin8.mds.lmco.com> *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: lber@conncoll.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Lisa Berglund To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: <199808171458.KAA03556@admin8.mds.lmco.com> Mary Finn raised the question of stage director (producer in U.K.-ese) and music director. In conjunction with Nick Sales's good point about giving the Smiths a choice of shows, I wonder if those folks interested in directing would identify themselves, and what show(s) they'd want to direct. We shouldn't necessarily assume that Mike Nash or anyone else would be willing to direct no matter what show is chosen; presumably someone might want to direct SORCERER but would prefer to audition for a principal role in PATIENCE. We need to confirm that there's a team of directors available for each show we intend to propose. David Craven mentioned the job of assistant director (someone who would work with principals in dialog scenes while the other director was working with chorus). This might be a good role for an American, Australian or Canadian who wants a directorial role but who can't undertake the negotiations with the Smiths and the other nuts-and-bolts chores that need to be done beforehand by someone in England. (No, I am not volunteering.) If we try to rehearse and stage the show in six days, I think an A.D. is essential. Presumably we ask the Smiths to schedule the show the same date as this year, the festival's first Thursday. If we began rehearsing on Saturday, we'd have five days, plus dress; beginning Friday would give us six days. Those astonishing people with stamina and sufficient vacation time for the festival production therefore would be free for that as well. Savoynet has done a great deal to support and promote the festival (Bob and Jackie Richards in particular) and given that we are good value, good advertising and so on I expect the Smiths would do what they could to accommodate us, especially if we accommodate them in the matter which show we perform. The turnout for TRIAL did mirror the character of the membership, in that after principals and chorus paired up on stage (I had the pleasure of partnering David Duffey) there were four gentlemen unmatched (plus Clive, snoozing in the gallery). This imbalance might indeed cause difficulties in casting shows that require the choruses to pair up (SORCERER, PATIENCE) and work to the advantage of shows in which they don't (PINAFORE, YEOMEN) or in which there are supposed to be unmatched men at the end (the Stanley girls marry pirates only, not policemen). But just as many companies make do with surfeit of ladies, I don't think savoynet should make choral balance the sole deciding factor in choosing a show. I also think the chorus should again be open to anyone who commits in advance to coming to Buxton and has learned the music. Indeed, the shows in which the choruses pair up are much more interesting for the chorus, since they're participants in the action rather than commentators. And I do believe that in choosing a show we should plump for one that, within our admitted limitations, is interesting for both male and female chorus. I assume that most people who plan to come to Buxton want to be in the show regardless of whether they're cast in principal roles; after all, savoynet is even more egalitarian than Barataria. For that reason, and the usual self-interest, I would prefer not to do YEOMEN or PINAFORE, which aren't very interesting for women's chorus; I would vote against MIKADO (which David Craven mentioned) because the chorus role for both sexes is comparatively dull. SORCERER, PIRATES and PATIENCE have active roles for the chorus, and therefore are much more fun. I suggest we propose those three to the Smiths, assuming (as I said before) that a team of directors volunteers for each show. Oh, and since Marc suggested all choristers identify themelves: yes, I plan to be in Buxton next year, among the altos. Lisa Berglund lber@conncoll.edu  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26457; Mon, 17 Aug 98 15:21:29 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15250; Mon, 17 Aug 98 15:21:09 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA21965; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: rwt@frodsham.demon.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Roger W Turner To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 In-Reply-To: *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: rwt@frodsham.demon.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Roger W Turner To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 In-Reply-To: Many of us discussed this with each other at Buxton and, as Nick said, I and others also spoke to Ian Smith. 1 We must definitely *not* decide the show at this stage. If we give Ian a short-list IMO we should make it clear that he can nominate some other show. We will probably not know our show until after 1 November. 2 We need to make it clear to Ian that we need an *early* decision on performance date, and we need a guarantee of rehearsal space. We could, if Ian likes us enough, get that decision fairly soon: as soon as he's slotted the professional productions into the diary. 3 We need to say a preliminary "yes" or "no" to Ian *quickly* after knowing the dates; and a firm "yes" or "no" *quickly* after knowing the show. 4 We do need, as Mike Nash said, to move fast. But not in discussing shows. We need to find out whether enough G&S performers are prepared to come to Buxton and spend a long time rehearsing. That will be easier once we know the dates. 5 We can't audition once we get to Buxton. IMO it's much too risky. It also prevents any advance get-togethers. IMO it also destroys much of the Savoynet aspect of it and turns it into another "Festival Production" - Ian might not like that. 6 I don't think that at this stage we should be excluding any particular method of doing something. So I disagree with excluding *at this stage* video auditions or assuming *at this stage* that we will be using Festival scenery. I believe we have enough time to discuss and invent uniquely Internet/International ways of achieving some things. Although, for example, I can't imagine a better MD than David Cound I also don't think that the "production team" should "emerge" without an opportunity for volunteers to come forward. (As we're so essentially an International group I would personally be biassed towards greater non-UK participation.) 7 I suggest that all of you decide (or guess!) over the next week or so your own answers to: * What dates would definitely be out eg Couldn't be there before 15 July or after 17 August * What days would definitely be out eg Won't agree to ten days of rehearsals eg Can't be there longer than 2 weekends and the week between * Whether you are prepared to be a chorister/sub-principal * What main principal parts you would be prepared to do * What other role(s) would you volunteer for eg Director, Musical Director - but *don't* post your answers yet. 8 I also suggest that over the next week or so Savoynet discusses * Whether these are the right questions * Who should be nominated to receive and analyse the answers 9 We also need to discuss whether or not to set up a separate mailing list. I feel fairly strongly that we should stay on Savoynet and decide on a code (such as B@99) to be used at the start of each subject line. Many subscribers would find it easy to delete or even not receive messages on that basis if they wanted to ignore us. (B@99 reads "Buxton Savoynet 1999: the "@" helps ensure the code won't occur in a normal subject line.) 10 Ian and Neil don't always read Savoynet. And I'm "Salad Days"-ing on Thursday. So I intend to speak to them again then. I promise to give them everyone's views, not just mine. -- Roger W Turner not their views ---> roger.turner@dfee.gov.uk +44 370 523109 rwt@frodsham.demon.co.uk  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18168; Mon, 17 Aug 98 16:39:26 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05029; Mon, 17 Aug 98 16:39:05 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA25049; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980817221220.00711138@pop3.unet.com.mk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: momak@unet.com.mk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Maureen Roult To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: momak@unet.com.mk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Maureen Roult To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Mike, first of all, I'm awed that, after all the work you put in and blood you must have sweated over TBJ, you're already proposing a more ambitious project for next year. Secondly, I'm glad you *are* proposing it! Are you volunteering to produce again next year? I tend to agree with your suggestions. Sorcerer, being shorter than most of the others, will require a bit less rehearsal time and doesn't really have any dance-y parts (except, perhaps, in the Act II "If you'll marry me" section) to need choreographing. Depending on the requirements of the theater, we could probably get away w/ minimal pyrotechnics. Patience would require a larger cast. This means more opportunities for those wanting principal roles (and I'll happily offer to be one of the 20 lovesick maidens). Would we have enough people to properly fill out the chorus? What's the smallest reasonable number one would need for a Patience chorus? I've only seen this a couple of times, haven't done it yet, so I'm not as familiar w/ its requirements. I enjoyed doing Pirates, but of course that requires a larger number of men to cover the chorus when we get to Act II. And what are the odds that some other company (or companies!) won't also be offering it? Nick has a good point in mentioning that we should probably offer the Smiths a short list of options to choose from, rather than a take-it-or-leave-it single choice. At any rate, I hope to be there in the chorus, whatever show we do. A brilliant idea, on the whole. "Let's put on a show!" Any chance of scheduling another Cavern sing? (I'm so jealous of those who were able to participate this year.) Maureen Roult momak@unet.com.mk Skopje, Macedonia  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29528; Mon, 17 Aug 98 17:31:54 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17034; Mon, 17 Aug 98 17:31:33 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA26820; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <37f5712b.35d8a04a@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: Butagirl@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Butagirl@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Savoynet 1999 production Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 168 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Butagirl@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Butagirl@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Savoynet 1999 production Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 168 Sandi Rovner wrote: > It seems to me it would be nice to do a show with a lot more female > roles. (Trial, of course, having only one.) Alas, I can see no way I could > join you but I think there must be a number of ladies on the Savoynet who > would love to shine. This is one of the reasons I would like to see us perform either Sorcerer or Patience - there are enough female roles to go round without taking away our chorus completely. I personally was very impressed with the calibre of the female choristers in Trial, and I know that the majority of them also play principal roles. No offence to the men - I thought you were all great too! I would love to take part in the Savoynet production next year - count me in! I am going to attend for the full festival next year (it was too much to bear leaving in the middle of the festival) and I, like Nick, Kelsey and the others would also like to take part in the Festival Production. Given the number of Savoynetters in this year's Ruddigore cast, I think the Smiths would be mad not to take this point on board when scheduling the productions. I'm still unsure whether my own society will be bringing Pinafore next year, but it would be a real challenge to take part in all three - I still wouldn't get close to Nick's record number of appearances this year, though! I would again like to congratulate Nick publicly on his award for best Male Voice - it was heartening to see that it was won for our Trial by Jury (so we can at least say our Trial won an award) although I assume Beryl Dixon did not include Nick's Festival Ruddigore Dick as a nomination because it was not necessary. This is, I assume, why Southampton's Aline was nominated for Best Female Voice - Bronwen Evans was much superior in the Festival Production, but since Beryl had already decided that Deborah Norman would win there was no point in changing the nominations. Looking forward to Buxton 1999 already and missing terribly all of you I met there. Sharon Brindle "Though I am butagirl@aol.com"  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03281; Mon, 17 Aug 98 17:53:23 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10998; Mon, 17 Aug 98 17:53:56 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA27619; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <9d5a77e5.35d8a5f6@aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: Savoyard1@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Savoyard1@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 164 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: Savoyard1@aol.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Savoyard1@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 164 Dear All, Re Mike's message on a possible Savoynetters show in 99, here is my twopenneth! Firstly, let's remember who we are and also realise that the 90% of the audience will now have got the message about Savoynet. Therefore, I believe that we should continue to have an @ bent in our productions, because nobody can do it this way! While I would personally love to do Yeomen, I don't think we can do it @ justice as we did in Trial. As for Pinafore and Patience, I agree that they are not sufficiently balanced to give both sexes a fair "crack of the whip" Now Sorcerer would be OK , but has not the same sparkle than the opera I am going to vote for. My choice therfore would be PIRATES. I would disagree with Mike by discarding Pirates. I think the production could be kept relatively simple. Likewise the Choreography. Judging by the men's chorus we had in Trial, we could manage a Police/Pirates split in Act II quite easily. Casting shouldn't be a problem either. Also it is one of the shorter full length shows and for this reason, rehearsals would be easier. I would also say that most if not all Savoynetters have done Pirates at some time in their lives. Without going OTT, I think we could do a Pirates wiith plenty of subtle references to Savoynet. I think this is a show we could do well AND enjoy. I think the audience would appreciate it as well. I can see the Pirate Flag now! I could get quite carried away with suggestions, but will stop at that for now. For my part, I can provide complete Police Uniforms FOC. As for auditons, I would suggest that a video be sent to the Producer/MD in advance rather than wait until 6-10 days before the show. Having never done a Festival production, I can't say what it is like but personally given the choice, I prefer more advance notice. HAIL SAVOYNET, THOU HEAVEN BORN MAID. Best Wishes, Philip Walsh. I pray you pardon me ex "Counsel for the Plaintiff " PS. I'm off the Cyprus on Wednesday for a week, so will be devoid of G & S, unless of course anyone knows of a Cypriot Society who are performing? If I find one, I'll be the first to tell Ian Smith!! Have just realised, we will be going up Mount Olympos so there is G & S connection afterall. So glad I can't escape from the clutches of G & S.  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01408; Mon, 17 Aug 98 22:04:24 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18018; Mon, 17 Aug 98 22:04:56 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA05446; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35D8E119.A5644957@ozemail.com.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: exexpats@ozemail.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Paul McShane To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: exexpats@ozemail.com.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Paul McShane To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Time for my two cents worth. First of all, is anyone saving and compiling all postings related to this big issue? (Not me - I'm off on vacation in a couple of days). If not, somebody or bodies should stand up and volunteer. Secondly, perhaps we need two volunteers - one to collate general suggestions about what to do next year and how to do it, and a second volunteer to whom people could write directly to spell out their interest in being involved in the 1999 SavoyNet spectacle. Thirdly, we must remain flexible as long as we can. There is, naturally, tremendous hype from all of us immediately following what appears to have been a terrific festival for SavoyNetters, but who knows what situations we will find ourselves in 12 months down the road? This comment is particularly valid for non-UK Netters, who right now are cracking their necks to be at Buxton next year, but could well find that job commitments, cash problems, health, spouse relationships and goodness what else could intervene to make the voyage impracticable when the time comes. Thus, although we would be wise to get expressions of interest as soon as possible - in order to find out, for instance, if there are enough women coming to make Patience feasible - we must be aware that these expressions of interest are not the same as fixed commitments. Finally, I am certainly interested in coming next year, and participating in the production is possible. Diana Burleigh has earlier expressed a similar interest (and without wishing to put words into her mouth - which I'm going to do anyway) she might well be enthused by Lisa Berglund's suggestion of an Associate Director. But, of course, it's more expensive to get to Buxton from Australia than it is from most other places in the world, so it's hard for us to make firm commitments just yet. As the Ancient Romans said: "festina lente". -- Paul McShane "Steps into the world once more."  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13402; Tue, 18 Aug 98 00:33:12 EDT Received: from ACS1.BU.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09483; Tue, 18 Aug 98 00:32:51 EDT Received: from localhost (rac@localhost) by acs1.bu.edu (8.8.5/) with SMTP id AAA42096; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:33:06 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:33:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rebecca A. Consentino" To: Jenna Wilkinson , Megan Houpt , Tyler Hains , Scott Gagnon , David Jedlinsky , Lousie Cash , Brenna Pomeroy , rls@MIT.EDU, Joshua Breindel Cc: Rebecca Consentino Subject: my new phone number Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:33:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rebecca A. Consentino" To: Jenna Wilkinson , Megan Houpt , Tyler Hains , Scott Gagnon , David Jedlinsky , Lousie Cash , Brenna Pomeroy , rls@MIT.EDU, Joshua Breindel Cc: Rebecca Consentino Subject: my new phone number Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello everyone, I just got a digital phone. Congratulations: You are among a select few who will have my number for now. It is 617-905-6504. Please don't give it out to anyone else -- at least not until I decide whether I'm keeping the phone! You see, I'm trying it out until September 16, at which point I will either return it to Radio Shack or keep it. So please call my number any time; I need to determine whether I truly want it or not. Of course, I'll probably let nearly every call go through to my voice mail to avoid phone charges. But at least you can leave me messages whenever you want to. I hope to (literally) hear from you soon! Thanks, :o) Becca Rebecca A. Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!"  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25404; Tue, 18 Aug 98 17:09:44 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03873; Tue, 18 Aug 98 17:10:17 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA10443; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mike Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999: the story so far X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: mike@iologic.u-net.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mike Nash" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999: the story so far X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 I've been collecting all the messages sent on this subject and will collate them into an archivable document when I can get round to it (inbetween rehearsing Ludwig in Poynton G&S's "Grand Duke" and Sgt. Bernardo in Openshaw AOS's "Viva Mexico", planning my first full-length opera as a director for Woodhouses' "Yeomen" for next Spring, and working). In the meantime I'll give my 2p on some of the thoughts expressed so far. Some people have wondered why I rejected certain shows such as "Pirates" or "Gondoliers". I am not the boss of Savoynet, we are very much a democracy. If most people want Pirates (say) to be our first choice, then fine. My reasoning was that these shows tend to need more elaborate and precisely-executed choreography, which I feel is the hardest thing of all to achieve in such a short time (the six days or so when we are all together in Buxton) as we have. The QWERTYUIOPs (i.e. Savoynet get-togethers) we had at Nick Sales' house before "Trial" were great opportunities to sing through the music and to get to know one another, but there wasn't really the opportunity - or the space! - to seriously block any movement. I don't know how feasible it would be to hold acting/blocking/dancing rehearsals before Buxton; I also think it would be very difficult to do with only half your cast. A question (since I've only done "Pirates" once): can "Pirates" be done well without elaborate choreography, and still be interesting? I've seen so many _bad_ productions of "Pirates" that I'm very sceptical. Sam suggested that "Gondoliers" may be possible by having British gondoliers and contadine and American Ducal Party. A neat way round the problem, except that I would like to feel that everyone, regardless of nationality, would have an equal chance of auditioning for whichever principal part they want. If we did do "Gondoliers", then I would want to audition for the Duke! Unless there are any American computer software firms that would be interested in taking on a British programmer with 13 years' experience (only half joking)... Ori Siegel wondered about orchestration. We would use (as we did this year for "Trial") the Festival orchestra. There is no charge, except that we have to hire the band parts at our own expense. As far as choosing a show goes, we *have* to give the Smiths a choice. However I don't believe we should give them carte blanche and say, "We will do whatever you say - we've no preference whatever (listen to them - well, I never)". I think we should be able to say, "We are flexible and will consider whatever you think best, but we would prefer to do A, B or C if possible; on the other hand, we can't realistically do X, Y or Z." Y and Z I think have to be Utopia and Grand Duke - they're so long, require so many principal parts as well as very strong chorus and not enough people know them well enough. (Hands up those UK S'Netters outside Poynton G&S Society who know GD well enough to perform?!) I think Gondoliers is too much of a dancey sort of show for it to be practical. It has to be done well or not at all. Other suggestions have included The Triple Bill again, with us doing all three shows this time. Another option certainly, though I must admit it doesn't excite me very much. Still, it might be another choice we could offer to the Smiths. Fraser Charlton has offered one of his re-writes such as Wicked Waxworks. I'm all for these being considered too, more so than something like Ages Ago or Beauty Stone, as the music is still familiar, with slightly altered lyrics. My only concern is that Ian Smith may not like such a show as an evening performance in the Opera House, regarding it as more "fringe" and thus preferring it to be performed one afternoon in the Paxton. (This is just my speculation.) I would like our show to be a mainstage Opera House affair, whatever happens. Regarding Peter Z's comments about finance: The only things we had to pay for when doing "Trial" were our costumes (10 pounds a head from the Smiths' Costume Hire), the band parts, the videos (which of course are optional - not ordering videos doesn't jeopardise our involvement in the Festival), plus a few individual expenses, such as make-up and the construction of the Savoynet Crest. Therefore the cost of a full-length show should be about the same, except that the cast may have to pay for two costumes each if they have a costume change. I do appreciate what Peter says about groups being formed just to perform at Buxton, but Savoynet as such exists quite independently of the Festival. Our production is simply our way of telling the rest of the world that we exist, in what I think of as a more wholesome way than us being a little nerdy clique having coffee in the Palace Hotel, all wearing our @ badges, and everyone else regarding us as a bunch of sad anoraks. Casting: Rica made some very good points. With a Festival production, the producer and MD can be pretty damn sure that they will get at least one very good choice for each role turning up. We, with our limited membership, cannot be sure. If we leave casting until Buxton, we may find ourselves short of key principals of sufficient calibre, and then where would we be? Also the point about costumes is a very good one. Judith Mills (in charge of the Smiths' Costume Hire) bent over backwards to help us. I don't think we should make her job harder than it needs to be. For these reasons, my preference would be to try and cast the principals before arriving in Buxton, allowing her time to prepare suitable costumes. (Assuming that we want to use the Smiths' Costume Hire, that is.) As far as posting to Savoynet or having a separate list goes, my vote is for a separate list once the framework of the production is in place, with regular updates to Savoynet to recruit latecomers. This is because a few of those involved in "Trial" were not (at least initially, though some joined later) on Savoynet; others receive it in Digest form and important TBJ-related messages were getting lost amidst all the other stuff. I haven't done a proper count of votes so far, but Sorcerer and Patience appear to be the most popular choices, with Pirates and then Pinafore next in line. Yeomen has a few votes too, as does some kind of Zoo/Cox & Box/Trial combination (either the standard short C&B or the full-length version). I am not ruling myself out as a possible Director at this stage, depending on what is best for the group; but I am not sure that I want to direct next year. I don't have very much directorial experience - the "Yeomen" I'm directing at Woodhouses next Spring will be my first full-length show - and, to be honest, I don't think I was that impressive as director of "Trial". _You_ (all the cast and crew) were the real producers! Half the time, I was flapping around at the front while each individual decided for him or herself what he/she needed to do... However, I will commit myself to being involved, whether as director, assistant director, principal, chorister, backstage gopher or bass guitarist (what with all these updated versions at this year's Festival, one never knows). Mike.  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19610; Tue, 18 Aug 98 19:54:38 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20132; Tue, 18 Aug 98 19:54:17 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA14859; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35DA0AB0.58D9A9C7@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: oakapple@cris.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Re: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) It really is SO hard to resist putting in one's oar. My views earlier expressed may have been hastily formed on insufficient grounds. They may have been crude, ill-digested, erroneous. The S'99 show, in the form most people are discussing it, will be rather similar to a Festival production, with the additional *advantage* that we will know the cast months in advance. Therefore, it seems to me that any show that has been a Festival Production can also be a Savoynet show. These have been the Festival Productions over the years, not counting children's shows: TRIAL (at least twice) PIRATES (twice) IOLANTHE (twice) MIKADO RUDDIGORE GONDOLIERS PATIENCE and YEOMEN have never been Festival Productions, but I'm sure they will someday. SORCERER may or may not, but I think it is as much within our abilities as the others under discussion. The one "disadvantage" Savoynet has is that, based on the TRIAL experience, there are more men than women. Therefore, I am persuaded that shows emphasizing the male side of things may be wiser choices. I am, therefore, leaning now more towards PIRATES and SORCERER, less so towards PATIENCE. Amy Allen asked about presenting an evening of scenes or vignettes from the operas. Let me digress a moment, for those not familliar with the structure of the Festival. Every night (and sometimes, matinees), there are performances in the Opera House. These are the centrepiece of the Festival. There is also a "Festival Fringe," constituting performances that are given elsewhere, such as the smaller Paxton Theatre, usually in the afternoons. Some very enjoyable events have happened on the fringe, and some of them attract hundreds of people. But, it is not the same as a night on the main stage. Based on precedent, I am quite certain that Ian Smith would view an "excerpts evening" as a fringe event. In the Opera House, he wants to put on full scale opera, or special events of considerable importance. A proposal from Savoynet to present an evening of excerpts would be probably be offered a "fringe slot" only, unless Ian had absolutely no other option. I certainly don't want to be anyone's "last resort." For similar reasons, I believe that a proposal to perform a G&S parody, however clever it may be, would be received similarly. It is worth noting that last year's "Sleeping Beauty of the Savoy" did not sell well at the box office, whatever its other merits may have been. So, having absorbed and considered other people's postings, my NEW order of preference is: 1. PIRATES; 2. SORCERER; 3. PATIENCE; 4. YEOMEN. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: marc.shepherd@ssmb.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08476; Wed, 19 Aug 98 07:47:23 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21378; Wed, 19 Aug 98 07:47:01 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA03370; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <01BDCB41.EA8C06C0@ts001d13.tal-fl.concentric.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: JGenzano@genzano.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "John J. Genzano, III" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: RE: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: JGenzano@genzano.com Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "John J. Genzano, III" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: RE: Savoynet Show Buxton 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mike, After finally catching up on my digests, I will be at Buxton next year to perform in whatever show SavoyNet decides to do, in whatever capacity (lead or chorus) I am qualified and chosen to do. On to my earlier comments after reading the first message. I think Sorcerer is probably our best choice. It is relatively short, it is relatively familiar, and it is relatively gender balanced, both in principal and choral parts. But I would let the Smiths make the choice from amongst the three or four mentioned by others. I think that we need to do auditions and assign principals sometime before the festival, as I know it would take me more than a week to really learn a part (I spent almost two months working on the Usher, and I still didn't get it completely correct). And the directors need the capacity to "move people around"; in other words, if I learn and audition for Sir Marmaduke, but the directors think I would make a better Dr. Daly, I would need the time to learn the Dr. Daly part. That is also a possibility with Aline and Constance, or even Lady Sangazure and Mrs. Partlett. So I think that some kind of video audition is going to be required. That means the directors are going to have to really try hard to judge the auditions based on the person's performance, not the quality of the video. It also means they are going to need access to either multiple video players (that can handle multiple formats), or a video player that will handle multiple international video formats (my understanding is that the continent is even different from the UK, I know the US is). The video auditions will also solve the chorus auditions situation, unless you are willing to accept anyone who shows up into the chorus (which is a possibility). But that would be up to the directors. ==JJG  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15013; Wed, 19 Aug 98 08:39:10 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17461; Wed, 19 Aug 98 08:39:40 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA04987; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <35DA10AA.603E@netspace.net.au> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: deebee@netspace.net.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Diana Burleigh To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Buxton 99 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: deebee@netspace.net.au Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Diana Burleigh To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Buxton 99 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) On the topic of prefered opera I may as well put in my 2dworth. I have done weekly rep. (for those who don't know, this involves doing a new production every 7 days for - in my case - about 4 months. Each production is done from scratch, casting, sets, costume etc) and I know what is possible with 6 days rehearsal. But that was with a professional company, who were used to working with each other and had a technical team as well. Also the plays were not G and S, required no chorus or choreography and therefore were easier. If Savoynet is to do a quality production in a few days then I think it is important that it is one of the canon, which everyone can come to note and word perfect. As I understand it the Festival has "standard" sets for each opera. So it would be important to do a work for which a set is available and which could be costumed from stock. To me this means that anything but the main 11 is out of the question. While there can certainly be some embellishments, I also think for ease the production style should be within the traditional mode (though not painting-by-numbers). And that anything with really complex chorus work should not be considered. Sorcerer - if it hasn't been done to death this year, I would think a very good choice, provided there is some possibility of working with the theatre tech staff on some lighting effects. Also does the theatre have a trap door or the set a raised area into which a trap has been cut? Pinafore - main problem the lack of roles for women. After Trial, I think this should be a consideration. Otherwise it should be possible in the time. Pirates - would there be enough men for the 2nd act split? If so, a good choice and a very good sing, which if well done, would be an effective way to show off talents. Patience - another more than possible choice, if the men don't mind spending the second act in the dressing room. To my mind this is one of the funniest of the operas and I have seen it drag so often in amateur productions. We could do better (says she never having been to Buxton or met others!) Iolanthe - more difficult but with directors rehearsing different bits possible. Not as good a choice though. Ida - really difficult. More sets, more costumes, more difficult music and more production required. Mikado - IMHO this show succeeds or fails on the precision of the fan work. Too difficult in a short time. Yeomen - also more difficult. The character interaction requires a lot of work, quality of principals must be really good, musically more complex. Ruddigore - Not impossible but more difficult. Costuming could be expensive and lack of tech rehearsal time makes an effective ghost scene more difficult. My objections are not insuperable. Gondoliers - too complex and much to difficult in terms of setting all the chorus work. Utopia and Grand Duke, now that would be running a marathon after learning to toddle! So to sum up, my list of preferences would be (in order) The Sorcerer Patience Pirates of Penzance HMS Pinafore or if you want to ignore everything I have said before, why not Thespis! Diana  1, forwarded, edited,, Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03989; Thu, 20 Aug 98 10:02:38 EDT Received: from charity.harvard.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00675; Thu, 20 Aug 98 10:02:15 EDT Received: from mail.welchs.com (mail.welchs.com [207.180.67.19]) by charity.harvard.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21001 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SRVEX10 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:03:14 -0400 Message-Id: From: "Allen, Amy" To: "'opus@mit.edu'" Subject: FW: LANDMARK Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:03:10 -0400 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDCC43.45D6A754" *** EOOH *** From: "Allen, Amy" To: "'opus@mit.edu'" Subject: FW: LANDMARK Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:03:10 -0400 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDCC43.45D6A754" FYI regarding Rica. Call me and we'll discuss...Work # which you are welcome to use? 978-371-3729. Direct dial. I'm good about VM should you get it instead of me... > -----Original Message----- > From: Mendes, Rica [SMTP:Mendes@WESTPORT.MSMAIL.AIGFPC.COM] > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 9:40 AM > To: 'Allen, Amy' > Subject: RE: LANDMARK > Importance: High > > > > Rica Mendes-Barry > AIG FP - Operations > Are you psyched? > [Rica Mendes-Barry] Yeah... but I want to have it NOW! > > Remember, no going into labor on the car ride down to MD...although I > must admit you'd be in good hands!!! > > [Rica Mendes-Barry] Ok... but Scott would be MIGHTY pissed. > > BTW, are we finalized for plans to pick you up? I guess I should get > directions from you eventually. Can I tell David that it will only be > you coming along? (didn't you say that if Scotty decided to go, he'd > drive and you'd not need us?) > > [Rica Mendes-Barry] Yes. > > Well, depends on what time y'all will be arriving. I have a doctor's > appointment at 10 am. This should take about an hour. It would > probably be best if you met me at home - that way I can drop off my > car and not have my stuff with me at work. > > Ok. You'll be on I-95 Southbound, right? Take Exit 15 onto the Rt. 7 > connector towards Route 15 (otherwise known as the Merritt Parkway). > Stay on the Route 7 connector until you see signs for Merritt Parkway > South. Hop onto the Merritt Parkway (it's a tricky merge). You are > going to go to the Exit for New Cannaan - Route 106 (it is the 2nd > exit past the Mobil station - about 3 miles from where you got onto > the Merritt). At the end of the exit ramp, at the stop light, make a > right onto Rt. 106. Go under the overpass and through the next 2 > lights. Continue on Rt. 106 (you will pass a golf course on the right) > for about 1 mile. As you pass the end of the golf course, Rt. 106 > forks to the left and there will be a street named "Woodway" on the > right. Make the right onto Woodway. Make the second left onto Highview > Ave (there is a large yellowish house with a Century 21 sign on the > corner). Be careful - people park IN the street... losers... Continue > down Highview. You'll get to a stop sign. The first left (at the base > of a little hill) will be Overlook Place - MY STREET. My house is the > only house on the right - a large yellowish house. Park in the > driveway and walk through the yard. You'll see a side door with a > doorbell and a set of stone steps. Ring the bell and I will come > galloping down (no doubt, with 2 kitties on my heels wanting to go > outside). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mendes, Rica [SMTP:Mendes@WESTPORT.MSMAIL.AIGFPC.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 6:14 PM > To: 'Mom&Dad'; Chiodo, Jane; 'Adina @ Work'; 'Amy Allen'; > 'Eitan'; 'Irv Hodgkin'; 'Janice Dallas'; 'Lavina'; 'Lisa Blocher'; > 'Paul'; 'Phil @ Home'; 'sooz'; 'Daddy'; Rozmus, Lori; 'Sally Neff'; > Christ-Janer, Katherine > Subject: LANDMARK > > ONE MONTH TO GO TIL DUE DATE... > > All keep tuned... (and pray I'm EARLY... like tomorrow... > please... if you love me... ) > > Rica Mendes-Barry > AIG FP - Operations >  1, forwarded, edited,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05723; Thu, 20 Aug 98 13:47:44 EDT Received: from charity.harvard.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18771; Thu, 20 Aug 98 13:48:18 EDT Received: from mail.welchs.com (mail.welchs.com [207.180.67.19]) by charity.harvard.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01294 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SRVEX10 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:48:20 -0400 Message-Id: From: "Allen, Amy" To: "'opus@mit.edu'" Subject: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:48:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDCC62.B7FA03DE" *** EOOH *** From: "Allen, Amy" To: "'opus@mit.edu'" Subject: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:48:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDCC62.B7FA03DE" Amy Allen 78 Parker Street, Apt. H Acton, MA 01720 Amy aallen@welchs.com  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21658; Fri, 21 Aug 98 23:38:37 EDT Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29031; Fri, 21 Aug 98 23:39:10 EDT From: GSWRKS@aol.com Received: from GSWRKS@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 0RKPa29473; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:27:04 +2000 (EDT) Message-Id: <45e546d7.35de3a89@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:27:04 EDT To: 106427.2206@compuserve.com, 74721.1017@compuserve.com, acbl@erols.com, Adam_Kubryk@rlstevenson.org, awrobins@indiana.edu, bambergerd@clevelandopera.org, BRGNS@aol.com, capsaicin@earthlink.net, ccoles@osfa.state.la.us, ccx074@coventry.ac.uk, chapka@best.com, cj003f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, consentr@emmanuel.edu, davcooke@ozemail.com.au, davidr@inconnect.com, DglsWhaley@aol.com, dixonm@access.mountain.net, dmarkstein@compuserve.com, don.oaktree@worldnet.att.net, dsmith@umassd.edu, dstone@idsonline.com, edwardr@serv.net, eniale@MIT.EDU, exexpats@ozemail.com.au, fhong@bcmp.med.harvard.edu, g-s@duke.edu, GandS.Poynton@dial.pipex.com, gstul@worldnet.att.net, hankf@lava.net, Harriet_Meyer@ama-assn.org, ian.abrams@pagebbs.com, info@bht.org, jeffrey@webnexus.com, jmd@pe.net, Lampliters@aol.com, landmark@glinx.com, lbyler@hpmpea2.cup.hp.com, m.newsome@sympatico.ca, Mahitabel@aol.com, marc_kenig@blyth.com, midiopra@mail.tcol.net, mike@iologic.u-net.com, MusikDrama@aol.com, Newtune@loom.net.au, Nicktenor@aol.com, oakapple@cris.com, opus@MIT.EDU, ornstn@inforamp.net, paladin@feist.com, petrim@admin.tc.faa.gov, Phil_Holmes@compuserve.com, pyelland@seaside.net, Roger.Hurford@btinternet.com, roth@gamgee.acad.emich.edu, rport@mosquitonet.com, Scynthius@aol.com, SteveDz@aol.com, swca@ionet.net, timbo@qatar.net.qa, tmoore@brunnet.net, webmaster@bhos.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Reduced orchestrations for G&S operettas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 *** EOOH *** From: GSWRKS@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:27:04 EDT To: 106427.2206@compuserve.com, 74721.1017@compuserve.com, acbl@erols.com, Adam_Kubryk@rlstevenson.org, awrobins@indiana.edu, bambergerd@clevelandopera.org, BRGNS@aol.com, capsaicin@earthlink.net, ccoles@osfa.state.la.us, ccx074@coventry.ac.uk, chapka@best.com, cj003f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, consentr@emmanuel.edu, davcooke@ozemail.com.au, davidr@inconnect.com, DglsWhaley@aol.com, dixonm@access.mountain.net, dmarkstein@compuserve.com, don.oaktree@worldnet.att.net, dsmith@umassd.edu, dstone@idsonline.com, edwardr@serv.net, eniale@MIT.EDU, exexpats@ozemail.com.au, fhong@bcmp.med.harvard.edu, g-s@duke.edu, GandS.Poynton@dial.pipex.com, gstul@worldnet.att.net, hankf@lava.net, Harriet_Meyer@ama-assn.org, ian.abrams@pagebbs.com, info@bht.org, jeffrey@webnexus.com, jmd@pe.net, Lampliters@aol.com, landmark@glinx.com, lbyler@hpmpea2.cup.hp.com, m.newsome@sympatico.ca, Mahitabel@aol.com, marc_kenig@blyth.com, midiopra@mail.tcol.net, mike@iologic.u-net.com, MusikDrama@aol.com, Newtune@loom.net.au, Nicktenor@aol.com, oakapple@cris.com, opus@MIT.EDU, ornstn@inforamp.net, paladin@feist.com, petrim@admin.tc.faa.gov, Phil_Holmes@compuserve.com, pyelland@seaside.net, Roger.Hurford@btinternet.com, roth@gamgee.acad.emich.edu, rport@mosquitonet.com, Scynthius@aol.com, SteveDz@aol.com, swca@ionet.net, timbo@qatar.net.qa, tmoore@brunnet.net, webmaster@bhos.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Reduced orchestrations for G&S operettas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Reduced orchestrations for Gilbert and Sullivan operettas Does your theater produce Gilbert and Sullivan operettas with budget and space limitations? For 10 years G&S Works has been providing theaters with Gilbert and Sullivan orchestrations that provide a rich, full sound using a small ensemble. Now your small orchestra will sound like it was meant to be that way, not as if there are instruments missing! These orchestrations have been used successfully by many G&S Societies, community, and regional theaters. They are known for improving the quality of G&S productions with space and budget limitations. Please visit our website for further information. G & S Works  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06642; Sun, 23 Aug 98 00:31:11 EDT Received: from CATHEDRAL-SEVEN.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09378; Sun, 23 Aug 98 00:31:28 EDT Received: by cathedral-seven.mit.edu (8.8.7/4.7) id AAA01261; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808230430.AAA01261@cathedral-seven.mit.edu> To: dinner@MIT.EDU, bjaspan@MIT.EDU, klb@cybercom.net, ronalddynn@aol.com, donny@world.std.com, popcorn@tir.com Subject: address and phone Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:30:49 EDT From: CarolYN J Smith *** EOOH *** To: dinner@MIT.EDU, bjaspan@MIT.EDU, klb@cybercom.net, ronalddynn@aol.com, donny@world.std.com, popcorn@tir.com Subject: address and phone Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:30:49 EDT From: CarolYN J Smith New address: 76 Lexington Ave #1, Somerville MA 02144, 617-628-0406 --Carolyn  1,, Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06973; Tue, 25 Aug 98 20:23:33 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28188; Tue, 25 Aug 98 20:23:32 EDT Received: from Saturn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA29774; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808260014.BAA08265@cadmus.hosts.netdirect.net.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Launch of 1921 Patience CD X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: chriswebster@ndirect.co.uk Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris Webster" To: Multiple recipients of list SAVOYNET Subject: Launch of 1921 Patience CD X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0d -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 OK Folks, Here it is at last. The moment you've all (well, nearly all) been waiting for. I am pleased to announce that you may now place your orders for copies of my restoration to CD of the 1921 HMV Acoustic Recording of Gilbert and Sullivan's aesthetic opera "Patience". Others have written about this CD in addition to my own announcements and so I feel this recording needs no introduction to you at this late stage. I've enjoyed doing it and I hope you will enjoy my transfer of this interesting recording when you hear it. It has been my policy to work from the best copies of each record that I could obtain. In order to do this I have often travelled far and wide to get hold of copies of this, and other G & S sets. Once good copies have been obtained I have then spent a considerable amount of time on each disc side - sometimes even using two or three copies of one side and editing these together to get a satisfactory end result for just one side. It is not for me to comment on the quality of my own work, but I am fortunate in having had a number of very favourable reviews of my work posted to Savoynet over the past months. As I have previously announced, it is my intention to work my way through this series of recordings and where necessary to include interesting 'filler' recordings that are also of historic interest and value to lovers and admirers of the recordings of the Savoy Operas. As long as enough of you want to buy them, I will produce them. My next transfer will be the 1924 recording of Ruddigore. Progress on this transfer is well under way and I am hoping it will not be too long before I will be making a similar announcement to say that that recording is now available on CD. This particular recording was issued by Pearl in the 70s and I have had a copy of their transfer at hand for reference while I have been transferring and editing the original 78s - believe me the difference between the Pearl transfer and mine is incredible. It is my plan at the moment to mainly concentrate on the recordings which require just one CD before moving on to the longer recordings which will require a filler to then make the extra cost of a two disc set justifiable, although before all the possible one disc sets are issued I may throw in a double to see how it is received, as early individual requests have been received for all of the operas. This HMV acoustic recordings are by no means the only recordings I wish to issue on CD - I have quite a bit more than just these recordings 'up my sleeve' which I hope will delight you when the time comes to announce what they are. One such recording I have already told you about is a CD of the soundtrack of the 1938 Mikado film. The master of this is complete, but this issue on hold at the moment because I have not had the time to compile the sleeve notes. The amount of information I have about this film should make for an interesting accompanying booklet, but other projects have not afforded me the time to concentrate on this just yet. Some of you may recall a review posted by Michael Walters after having heard an early test pressing of this CD, and with Michael's permission I shall include this review as a 'refresher' when the time comes to launch it. Other prospective titles I am currently looking into issuing include some of the rarest and earliest recordings of G & S, and also non-musical items of an historical interest to G & S devotees.. So much for exciting future plans. 'What about Patience?' I hear you ask. Well the situation is this. At the moment I have about 20 copies prepared and ready to send off to the first 20 customers. After these are gone it will be back to running off more copies to order. This is the reason for this slight delay in opening postal sales but I have not had the chance to run off more copies yet. By all means place your orders now, and I shall make every endeavour to get the copies run off as quickly as possible, but in case you are not one of the first 20 names please be prepared for a possible short wait while your order is being specially prepared for you. I am hoping that I will be able to spend a few solid days running off a large batch, but in case I don't have the time to put a day or two aside for replenishing en mass, I shall be running copies off at every convenient spare moment. Fear not, your long awaited disc will be with you as soon as possible. If you wish to pay in US dollars please send your check (payable to Richard N Freedman) for 26.00 US dollars to Richard Freedman, 89 Staniford St Apt 7 Auburndale MA 02466-1128. Richard will advise me by email of your order upon receipt of your check, and I can get to work with processing your order. If you wish to pay in Sterling please send your cheque (payable to 'A C Webster') for 15.00 UK pounds to Chris Webster Victoria House 228 B High Street CROYDON Surrey CR0 1NF ENGLAND A copy of this message has been sent privately to many people who sent independent enquiries, as well as Savoynet, in case any of those people are currently off Savoynet. Apologies to those who receive this message twice as a result. I realise some of you have been waiting for the launch of this issue for some time, and I thank you for your 'patience' and hope you will now enjoy mine !! Regards Chris Chris Webster 'Sounds on CD'