BABYL OPTIONS: Version: 5 Labels: Note: This is the header of an rmail file. Note: If you are seeing it in rmail, Note: it means the file has no messages in it.  1,, Summary-line: 9-Sep Officer Ed #Composition of overtures Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10284; Fri, 9 Sep 94 23:30:52 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27950; Fri, 9 Sep 94 23:30:44 EDT Received: from (localhost) by bridgewater.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA10188; Fri, 9 Sep 1994 23:30:39 +0500 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 23:30:39 +0500 Message-Id: <9409100327.AA10138@bridgewater.edu> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Officer Ed" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Composition of overtures X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Length: 1837 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 23:30:39 +0500 Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Officer Ed" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Composition of overtures X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Length: 1837 To: Savoynet From: Ed Glazier (Stanford Savoyards, FUMGASS, former UMGASS) Subj: Overtures I'm sure that this will not end all discussion about the source for the overtures for the canon. However... In THE GILBERT AND SULLIVAN COMPANION, by Leslie Ayre, New York, Dodd, Mead, & Co., 1972, there is an entry under OVERTURES. Ayre says the following information was given to him by the D'OC. I have no idea of whether people regard Ayre as generally accurate, but I thought I would at least cite a published reference work, rather than our relying on people's undocumented memories. COX AND BOX: Overture by Sullivan, in his own handwriting TRIAL BY JURY: No overture, but entire score in S.'s handwriting THE SORCERER: Overture in Hamilton Clarke's writing; rest of the score in S.'s HMS PINAFORE: Overture sketched out by S, whose handwriting appears at intervals. Details arranged by Alfred Cellier. Entr'acte in Cellier's writing. PIRATES: Same procedure followed as in PINAFORE. In 1919 a re-arranged overture was prepared by Geoffrey Toye. PATIENCE: Overture sketched out by S. and filled in by someone unknown. IOLANTHE: Overture by S. and in his writing, except for some copying details from later parts of the opera. PRINCESS IDA: Same procedure as IOLANTHE MIKADO: Overture probably prepared by Hamilton Clarke. RUDDIGORE: (No reference to original overture). 1920 revision prepared by Geoffrey Toye, since some of the numbers quoted in the original were omitted from the revival. YEOMEN: Overture by S. GONDOLIERS: Overture by S., in his handwriting UTOPIA, LIMITED: No overture. (Note that the publication date of this book was 1972, and the information mentioned previously by others, was, I believe, later than that. GRAND DUKE: Overture by S., in his handwriting To: SAVOYNET@BRIDGEWATER.EDU  1,, Summary-line: 27-Nov CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.ED #BROUDE BROS. TRIAL Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07209; Sun, 27 Nov 94 12:28:31 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26865; Sun, 27 Nov 94 12:28:11 EST Received: from (localhost) by bridgewater.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA24033; Sun, 27 Nov 1994 12:28:05 +0500 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 12:28:05 +0500 Message-Id: <01HJZ0CQJXCIA733Z0@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: BROUDE BROS. TRIAL X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Length: 5041 *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 12:28:05 +0500 Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: BROUDE BROS. TRIAL X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Length: 5041 After having had an opportunity to thoroughly go through this new critical edition, I'd like to add to my previous postings in more detail. Earlier I mentioned the superior typography, for which this edition has no rivals in any previously issued material. Also mentioned were two examples of the kinds of issues this edition presents. It needs to be re-emphasized that this is not a piano-vocal score, but a full score of the work laying out all of the instrumental lines as well as the vocal parts. So unless you or your accompanist has the rare skill of being able to reduce such a score at sight (or with practice) it's not the kind of material you'd use at a non-orchestral rehearsal. However, individual singing-actors may very well want to obtain this volume if they are heavily into performance of lead roles. They will find this volume as or more valuable as Martyn Green's book, to give a well known example. And it is beyonmg question that stage and music directors will want to use this as a primary resource, especially as it also contains and fully annotated libretto. Members of choruses, unless they are very interested in the scholarly details of the operas, will not be obtaining this volume. But it does appear that, with some but not necessarily burdensome effort, this score can be used as a conducting score using existing Kalmus orchestra parts and the vocal scores now available. There will need to be occasional shifting of rehearsal letters, and for ease of rehearsal soime companies may wish to add measure numbers to orchestral parts, but there were similar problems in the pirate full scores already available anyway. The editorial procedures are explained in more detail than is perhaps usual in such editions, and this has been done evidently to make the edition more accessible. The musical text itself is somewhat less cluttered with editorial detail than in other similar efforts, again with the evident goal of practical use in mind. All necessary information is found in notes which are given separately from the musical text. Attention has not yet been called to what the editor describes as *the knottiest textual problem of TRIAL BY JURY* -- this is the portion of the coda in the Judge's song, beginning with the words "It was managed by a job." Those who had seen Suillivan's ms, and were familiar with the first three editions of the piano-vocal score, were aware that this section had been suppressed at some early stage, as the whole section is x-ed out in blue pencil in Sullivan's autograph, and is missing from the first three editions of the piano-vocal score. It was reinstated about 1900, and the question then becomes one of whether or not the composer sanctioned this, since he died about that time. The issue is fully explored and the editors have determined that it should be left in; but those who wish to make the cut are free to do so and will have enough solid information with which to make such a determination. There are a number of other places, such as the end of the "Trial- la-law" refrain, in which variant readings - some of which have become well-known through D'Oyly Carte recordings - have either been debunked or sustained through thje research which went into this edition. There is one passage in the introduction which gave some pause, because according to what I had read, I thought the issue was pretty much settled - and that is a paragraph dealing with extant material from Thespis. (Relax, this is not about Climbing Over Rocky Mountain!). Although not specifically referred to, the editors evidenyl do not give credence to the recently discovered ballet music attributed to Thespis as definitely, or even probably, being from that score. In concluding a paragraph in which Little Maid of Arcadee and the Climbing chorus are described as having been from Thespis, the statement is then made that the possibility of other music surviving, such as existing in "scattered places bound with other scores" (i.e. precisely the situation which was described recently with the Thespis ballet) is "pure speculation. Mo other clear example is known of pages evidently taken directly from the Thespis autograph." Hmm. Is this a continuation of an existing controvery or the start of a new one? Perhaps someone out there can shed some light on this. But back to the principal subject. This new edition belongs in the library of anyone who is seriously interested in Gilbert & Sullivan staging or music direction. It would be irresponsible not to consult it in preparing any performance of TRIAL BY JURY. In addition, there will be others such as principal actors and vociferous G & S afficiandos who will find this work to be of more than a passing interest. The only possible enhancement of this edition would be for performing materials to be derived from it, but even now it will be of great service to both musicology and to practical musicians and theatrical personnel. Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Worcester, MA 01610  1,, Summary-line: 28-Nov Marc Shepherd #The Folio Edition of the Savoy Operas Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11257; Mon, 28 Nov 94 09:25:28 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16759; Mon, 28 Nov 94 09:25:13 EST Received: from (localhost) by bridgewater.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA26265; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:25:06 +0500 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:25:06 +0500 Message-Id: <9411281422.AA05071@debussy.sbi.com> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: shepherd@schubert.sbi.com (Marc Shepherd) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Folio Edition of the Savoy Operas X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Length: 5373 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:25:06 +0500 Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: shepherd@schubert.sbi.com (Marc Shepherd) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Folio Edition of the Savoy Operas X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Length: 5373 The Complete Savoy Operas Introduced by Fredric Woodbridge Wilson Published by The Folio Society (London, 1994) Two Volumes, 704 pages Thirty-two illustrations (13 color). In a word: gorgeous. No other adjective comes close to describing the new Folio Society edition of The Complete Savoy Operas. For this reason alone, the Folio edition belongs in your collection, no matter how many versions of the libretti you already have. Gilbert's immortal operas have never been out of print, but they have never been printed as lovingly as this. The set comes in two hardbound volumes, held in a lovely slipcase bearing color reproductions of cigarette card illustrations from six of the operas. The frontispiece to volume one bears a handsome photograph of Gilbert, while that to volume two bears a matching photograph of Sullivan. Inside, you'll find thirty more full-page illustrations on glossy paper, thirteen of them in color. The color illustrations are mostly reproductions of sheet music covers or publicity posters, while the black & whites are mostly of vintage Savoyards like Barrington, Grossmith and Fred Sullivan. The excellent thirteen-page introduction by Fredric Woodbridge Wilson puts the operas in their historical context, though knowledgeable readers will not learn anything new. The text is mostly verbatim from the first chapter of Wilson's earlier monograph, "An Introduction to the Gilbert and Sullivan Operas" (The Pierpont Morgan Library: New York, 1989). A note in the front of the edition reads, "The copy text for this edition was Gilbert's Original Plays, which have been edited against the original vocal scores. Minor stylistic emendations have been made." This statement deserves further inquiry. Gilbert's "Original Plays" refers to the four little volumes published by Chatto & Windus, long out of print, containing the Savoy Operas and most of Gilbert's other major plays and opera libretti. This was the only edition Gilbert authorized in his lifetime, but it represents an inter- mediate state between the first-night libretti and the operas we know. Gilbert was working on a revised edition late in life, but his last thoughts went with him to an early grave. The Original Plays are probably as good an edition as any to use as a starting point, but they contain numerous errors that Gilbert surely would have corrected, if he'd had the time. This explains why the Folio Edition is "edited against the original vocal scores" (which, for the musical numbers, are a far more dependable source), but where does this leave us? In Trial By Jury, after the jury is sworn, Original Plays (OP) has a two-line recitative for the Usher that Sullivan never set: This blind devotion is indeed a crusher! Pardon the tear-drop of the simple Usher! The next line, for the Counsel, is "Call the Plaintiff!"; the Usher's reply is "Oh, Angelina! Angelina!! Come thou into Court." The Folio edition eliminates the recitative, corrects the Counsel's line to "Where is the Plaintiff? / Let her now be brought," and eliminates the extra "Angelina!" from the Usher's line. This is an example of editing "against the original vocal scores." Yet, some other errors go uncorrected. For example, the Defendant's second line is given both by Folio and OP as: "Be firm, my moral pecker," even though the "original score" has the more-familiar, "Be firm, be firm, my pecker." As another example, in Ruddigore OP has an extra verse for the ladies in "Welcome, gentry": Your exceeding Easy breeding-- Just the thing our hearts to pillage-- Cheers us, charms us, Quite disarms us: Welcome, welcome to our village; To our village welcome be! Folio correctly omits this, since it isn't in any vocal score. But, Folio retains an aside for Robin, "Ah, lost one," found in the Act I finale after Despard's "I claim young Robin as my elder brother!" This line doesn't appear in any score, either. For the Act I finale, Folio gives the shortened "Oh, happy the lily," which is certainly reflective of some modern vocal scores, but not the "original" one. So, rather than a reprinting of Gilbert's Original Plays, this set is more properly regarded as a brand new edition, considerably more accurate than OP, yet unaccountably retaining many of OP's errors. Nonetheless, as there is no edition of the G&S libretti that comes close to authentic, the Folio Edition's attractive presentation gives it the nod over all the competition. On Savoynet, there has been an ongoing debate over the copyright status of the G&S operas. Everyone agrees that the operas themselves are in the public domain, but some netters believe that particular editions of the operas may still enjoy copyright protection. I note that the Folio Edition specifically claims copyright only for Fredric Woodbridge Wilson's introduction. Folio's editors obviously put many hundreds of hours into this edition, and I assume they would have claimed copyright on the whole thing if they'd believed they were entitled to it. You can get the Folio Edition of The Complete Savoy Operas from The Morgan Library Book Shop, 29 East 36th Street, New York, New York, 10016, or by calling 1-800-861-0001. The price is $109.95 plus $10.95 shipping and handling. -- Marc Shepherd Salomon Brothers Inc mshepherd@mhfl.sbi.com  1,, Summary-line: 24-Apr Marc Kenig #savoyards.org Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01937; Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:35:20 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22733; Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:35:10 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA05705; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:34 :57 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:34:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199504241827.LAA06392@netcomsv.netcom.com> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Marc Kenig" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: savoyards.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** :57 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:34:57 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Marc Kenig" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: savoyards.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum savoyards.org The Stanford Savoyards proudly announce the availability of the newly registered Internet domain name: savoyards.org and have allocated ourselves the obvious subdomain name choice: stanford.savoyards.org For example: Our Web home page can now be reached as http://stanford.savoyards.org/Savoyards.html (webmasters note: the old URL still works as well since the new domain might take some time to propogate). The upshot for non-techie and techie readers out there is that we can create sub-domains and serve them for other "savoyard" organizations on the net (ie, sudbury.savoyards.org, cornell.savoyards.org, whatever). Just ask us, most politely. E-mail to marc@stanford.savoyards.org or dave@stanford.savoyards.org The Stanford Savoyards: "G&S leaders on the information superhighway" [brought to you by InterServe Communications, Palo Alto, CA leaders in Internet connectivity for home and business] Marc Kenig marc@stanford.savoyards.org Who is out of his Yeomen Production indentures in but 14 days....  1,, Summary-line: 29-Apr Tom Yu #[abennett@MIT.EDU: HUMOR: Lipogramming Gilbert] Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26807; Sat, 29 Apr 95 20:17:30 EDT Received: from YAZ-PISTACHIO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27435; Sat, 29 Apr 95 20:17:08 EDT Received: by yaz-pistachio.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA00484; Sat, 29 Apr 95 20:17:07 -0400 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 20:17:07 -0400 Message-Id: <9504300017.AA00484@yaz-pistachio.MIT.EDU> To: savoyards@MIT.EDU Subject: [abennett@MIT.EDU: HUMOR: Lipogramming Gilbert] From: Tom Yu *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 20:17:07 -0400 To: savoyards@MIT.EDU Subject: [abennett@MIT.EDU: HUMOR: Lipogramming Gilbert] From: Tom Yu In case you haven't seen this before... :-) ---Tom Message-Id: <9503241821.AA23817@sneetch.MIT.EDU> To: humor@MIT.EDU Subject: HUMOR: Lipogramming Gilbert Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:21:47 EST From: "Andrew A. Bennett" Content-Length: 1318 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 09:12:24 PST From: Connie_Kleinjans@Novell.COM (Connie Kleinjans) From: janos@netcom.com (Janos Gereben) Nobody could do this better than Sondheim himself, but he may not be available, so it's up to us. Lipograms are now all the rave in England where Georges Perec's novel, `A Void,' has been translated by Gilbert Adair. Both the French original and the English versions, about 300 pages each, contain not a single E, by far the most common letter in both languages. So, `lipogramming' is rewriting (NO, modifying) text by finding good replacement words without the vulgar E (of course, to assure case-sensitive UNIX types, `e' as well). James Kincaid, in his NY Times review of `A Void,' gives the following example from `The Pirates of Penzance': Here's a first-rate opportunity What a damn good opportunity To get married with impunity. Ho! to marry with impunity. And indulge in the felicity And to wallow in the jollity Of unbounded domesticity. Of suburbanist frivolity! [Boo] You shall quickly be parsonified Think about a happy you and I Conjugally matrimonified Matrimonially sharing our own sty. By a doctor of divinity, Thanks to a doctor of divinity, Who resides in this vicinity. Who hangs out in this vicinity. Let's start, appropriately enough, with `Agony.' Janos.  1,, Summary-line: 2-May David Stern #Re: We've lost a friend Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21925; Tue, 2 May 95 16:15:30 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18458; Tue, 2 May 95 16:15:24 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA09179; Tue, 2 May 1995 16:11:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 16:11:55 -0400 Message-Id: <2FDE732766E@finearts.sfa.uconn.edu> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "David Stern" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: We've lost a friend X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 16:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "David Stern" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: We've lost a friend X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Some or all of you may already know this, but in case the news has as yet missed this list--one of the great lovers of G&S is gone. Gerald M. Phillips (whom you may have known as gmp@psu--etc.) died last Wednesday, a few days after a massive stroke and after surviving ten years with serious heart disease. Jerry was a participant in this savoynet for quite a while. His last E-mail to me (I had just gone on line) included the information on how to subscribe and join you. If he was as active on this list as he was on several others, then many of you got to know him well. Although Jerry did some acting, his only performance in G&S was about seventeen years ago as the Major General in a "readers theatre" production of Pirates. A few years later, he and I made a series of short radio programs, featuring the reading of patter lyrics, for West Virginia Public Radio. During those productions, I realized that he glowed like a neon sign when performing one particular character, King Gama. Gama was his alter ego. Almost everybody did say he was a disagreeable man. Jerry however, could think why. He wanted it that way. Those who were not close to him were held at a distance by the Gama personality that he cultivated. On May 21, at the Penn State memorial service for him, I will read two lyrics. "If you give me your attention" will represent the Gama face he showed to many. Hammerstein's "Something Wonderful" will represent the side known by many fewer--the man who "will not always say what you would have him say," but whom you would "forgive and forgive and help and protect for as long as you live." I will miss him as I have missed few others. "Misery me, lackadaydee!" David Alan Stern, Ph.D. Dept. of Dramatic Arts, U-127 University of Connecticut Storrs, CT 06269 (203) 486-1630  1,, Summary-line: 6-May CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Re: Iolanthe Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01735; Sat, 6 May 95 12:57:19 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06849; Sat, 6 May 95 12:57:01 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA02012; Sat, 6 May 1995 12:55: 51 -0400 Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 12:55:51 -0400 Message-Id: <01HQ6LBKRXBMB14A8H@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Iolanthe X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 51 -0400 Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 12:55:51 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Iolanthe X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The leitmotivs in Iolanthe are, of course, not only a Wagnerian reference but also indicate an increased sophistication in Sullivan's technique. As has been mentioned by others, it was not the last time Sullivan would use the device. A earlier posting made the connection with the Tower of London theme with Wagnerian sound, particularly Meistersinger - an opera which Sullivan greatly admired. You can hear the Meistersinger influence in the final chorus of the Mikado Act I finale "We do not heed their dismal sound For joy reigns everywhere around". It is not accurate to say that Iolanthe's motiv, stated by a solo oboe when she first enters is never repeated. A short reminiscence is heard at the beginning of the Act I finale, introducing her solo "When tempests wreck they bark"; also, and very telling, is the similar oboe solo just at the moment when she reveals herself to the Lord Chancellor, as she sings "Behold, it may not be" and continues into "I am thy wife." The Fairy Queen does not exactly have an identifying motiv, but one closely associated with her might be indentified as "Iolanthe's sin"; in Act I this occurs in her solo on the words "For a dark sin against our fairy law We summoned thee to life-long banishment" - in Act 2 she sings virtually the same music to the words "Once again they vows are broken; Thou thyself thy doom has spoken" - if this isn't Wagnerian treatment it's an enormous coincidence. Strephon's and Phyllis's shared Arcadian motiv - which has been prone to show up on 10 worst lists - is actually a blatant rip-off of a similar theme in Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony. For those who don't get it as the piece is sung, Sullivan, in the last bar, throws in the tip-off - he copies Beethoven's treatment of it (the final little riff in the bass line of the orchestra). At that moment you are shown that Sullivan has used that germ of Beethoven's idea all the way through the solo. This must have been Sullivan's wink of the eye to his musician friends who must ghave roared, even though it may have gone over the heads of many if not most of his audience. The Peers have a style of music as their leitmotiv - the pompous, very British military band music which contrasts with the music of the fairies. It's heard first in the entrance March, and later in the closing march of Act I, as well as in "When Britain Really Ruled the Waves." They also have a kind of music one might describe as conspiratorial - it's used in the Finale of Act I in two places. The first is when they are eavesdropping on Phyllis "We think we heard him say" etc - and later when they're discussing their problems with the Fairy Queen: "We never knew we were talking to an influential fairy." They also have an effete style, first revealed in the Barcarolle and its introduction "Oh rapture, how beautiful". The fairy fanfares have their roots in similar music by Mendelssohn and others. The transparency of the orchestration for the fairy music is definitely reminiscent of similar treatment by Mendelssohn. I have heard the suggestion that the closing march of Act I "Young Strephen is the kind of lout" is a parody of a Sousa march. There may be some truth in that, although one can hear a kind of strut in it more typical of goose-stepping. The peers are described as "great geese", don't forget. Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Worcester, MA 01610  1,, Summary-line: 16-May J. Donald Smith #Re: An Obscure G&S Film - EUREKA! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25774; Tue, 16 May 95 17:23:56 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15571; Tue, 16 May 95 17:23:51 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA24072; Tue, 16 May 1995 17:18 :47 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:18:47 -0400 Message-Id: <01HQKTPELIW28Y569G@umassd.edu> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Donald Smith" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: An Obscure G&S Film - EUREKA! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** :47 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:18:47 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Donald Smith" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: An Obscure G&S Film - EUREKA! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Fellow Savoynetters, Several weeks ago I posted a query about a movie "The Return of Gilbert and Sullivan" for which I had acquired a poster but for which there seemed to be no record. Aside from several comments about whether I really had what I thought I had, the movie turned out to be as obscure to the Net as to most movie sources. Finally I have located a reference to the movie. It isn't mush help but does confirm the movie's existance. "The Motion Picture Guide" 1927 - 1984, Jay Robert Nash and Stanley Ralph Ross, Cinebooks, Inc. Chicago, 1987. In volume IX, there is a section entitled "Miscellaneous Talkies" which carries the following introduction: "NOTE: The following A-Z miscellaneous compilation of talking films includes, for the sake of being definitive, all those films, from 1927 through 1984, which the editors consider to be of a minor nature. Many of these theatrical films have been shown briefly, some, perhaps only a single or few times before being pulled and shelved, some shown regionally, some not shown at all, never having been released and a few cannot be verified as having been completed, but all are included here for the purpose of presenting comprehensive information." AND, on p. 4165 of this mammoth collection is the following entry: "RETURN OF GILBERT AND SULLIVAN", 1952 leading players: Melville Cooper, Tudor Owen, Billy Gray, Mara Lynn, Pat Hogan, Joe Graves, Scatman Crothers. Since the poster in my collection bears the distribution number of 52-162, the movie was undoubtedly released. As to what happened to it, . . .? (I have some hints that it (rather several of the individuals involved) ran into the Hollywood blacklist, which may account for its absence from standard references. I would assume that if the movie had been any good, it would have been revived at some point.) _______________________________________________________________________________ J. Donald Smith Chemistry Department, University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, North Dartmouth, MA 02747. (508) 999-8231; FAX: (508) 999-9167 E-mail: DSMITH@UMASSD.EDU "You misunderstand me. I didn't say a filter - I said a philtre." - W.S. Gilbert  1,, Summary-line: 5-Jun J. Donald Smith #"The Return of Gilbert and Sullivan" - update Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24077; Mon, 5 Jun 95 12:44:18 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03515; Mon, 5 Jun 95 12:44:12 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA26862; Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:43:58 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:43:58 -0400 Message-Id: <01HRCG4XUA0Y8WW2XM@umassd.edu> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Donald Smith" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: "The Return of Gilbert and Sullivan" - update X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:43:58 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Donald Smith" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: "The Return of Gilbert and Sullivan" - update X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Fellow Netters, Several months ago I reported on the existence of the film "The Return of Gilbert and Sullivan" based on a movie poster. Dan Kravetz has commented that there is a mention of the film in the biography of Scatman Crothers, who was in the film. I can now add more items about the movie. I was recently in Los Angeles and had the opportunity to spend a morning at the library of the Motion Picture Academy of Arts and Sciences. Their file on "The Return of Gilbert and Sullivan" contains various clippings from movie magazines and newspapers of the period (1950 - 1952). To summarize: The film is a short subject (31 minutes) rather than a full-length feature, which is one reason why information has been so scarce. It is described as a fantasy in which Gilbert and Sullivan (played by Melville Cooper and Tudot Owen, respectively) return to earth to protest the jazz treatment [i.e. "The Hot Mikado"] given their music. The film used painted canvas sets as in a theater and was shot in two days! [This rapid filming was apparently typical of the Producer, Irving Allen, which is one reason why his films were generally unsuccessful, JDS]. It featured music from "Iolanthe", "HMS Pinafore," "The Mikado," "Trial by Jury" and "The Pirates of Penzance." While many of the original lyrics were used, rewritten versions included: "I am the Very Model of a Freudian Psychiatrist," and "They Call Her Poor Butter Up." Although there are a number of clippings announcing the filming of the picture, there are no reviews in the file. The film was nonetheless released, as the obituary of the writer and co-director Sid Kuller indicated that the picture had received a juried award at the Cannes Film Festival. [I have not had the opportunity to verify that item.] My sense of the scarcity of information and of the picture itself is that while the Sullivan copyright had expired in 1950 (when the film was actually made), the Gilbert copyright had not. In using original lyrics, the film presumably violated the Gilbert copyright and may have been forced to have been withdrawn from circulation. In any case, the copyright on the movie itself was not renewed and is now in the public domain, assuming anyone can find a copy. I will post any further information, assuming there is anything more to find out, when and if I can. Sincerely, Donald Smith _______________________________________________________________________________ J. Donald Smith Chemistry Department, University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, North Dartmouth, MA 02747. (508) 999-8231; FAX: (508) 999-9167 E-mail: DSMITH@UMASSD.EDU "You misunderstand me. I didn't say a filter - I said a philtre." - W.S. Gilbert  1,, Summary-line: 7-Jun PDW0665@aol.com #LOST CHORD LYRICS/Masonic Source Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19201; Wed, 7 Jun 95 20:27:42 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00456; Wed, 7 Jun 95 20:27:37 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA06626; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:27:17 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:27:17 -0400 Message-Id: <950607202524_64970301@aol.com> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: PDW0665@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: LOST CHORD LYRICS/Masonic Source X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:27:17 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: PDW0665@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: LOST CHORD LYRICS/Masonic Source X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I have located the lyrics requested for the "Lost Chord" and several sources which Sir Arthur requests it never be performed in burlesque. I did find it in a Masonic Lodge music program booklet titled, "The New Masonic Musical Manual," by Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Co., 45-7-9 John Street, New York (City, NY) 1909. Lost Chord Sir Arthur Sullivan (Hyphens indicate where notes are held, or the syllables where the notes match, when translating eliminate ALL hyphens first) (Andante Moderato) Seat-ed one day at the organ, I was wea-ry and ill at ease, And my fingers wander'd i-dly O-ver the nois-y keys. I know not what I was playing, Or what I was dreaming then, But i struck one chord of mu-sic, Like the sound of a great A-men, Like the sound of a grea--t A-men. It flood-ed the crimson twilight, Liek the close of an An-gel's Psalm, And it lay on my fevered spir-it, With a touch of infinite calm, It qui-et-ed pain and sor-row, Like love ov-er-com-ing strife, It seem'd the har-mon-ious e-cho >From our dis-chor-dant life, (Tranquillo sempre) It link'd all per-plex-ed mean-ings, In-to one per-fect peace, (poco a poco animato) And trembled a-way in-to si-lence, As if it were loth to cease; (Agitato) I have sought, but I seek it vain-ly, That one lost chord di-vine, Which came from the soul of the or-gan, And en-ter'd in-to mine. (Grazioso) It may be that Death's bright An-gel, Will speak in that chord a-gain; It may be that on-ly heav'n, I shall hear that grand A-men. It may be that Death's bright An-gel, Will speak in that chord a-gain (ritard)ff IT MAY BE THAT ON-LY IN HEAV'N (Con Gran Forza)fff I SHALL HEAR THAT GRAND A-MEN. Good Luck with your future G & S studies/performances As a further service I am sending a copy to the Savoynet, so that in the future, more copies of the lyrics will be available. DEAN (who is loth to copy, duplicate, Xerox, fax, scan dub, or anything else what with all these copyright hounds at my bum!) WALL Norfolk VA masonic music book courtesy "Naomi Lodge #87, Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, under the juridiction of the Grand Lodge of the Commonwealth of Virginia" (of which I just happen to be a line officer) email: pdw0665@aol.com (that's pdw ZERO SIX SIX FIVE)  1,, Summary-line: 11-Jun CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.ED #Re: Kalmus Full Scores Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16279; Sun, 11 Jun 95 12:56:26 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10942; Sun, 11 Jun 95 12:56:16 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA19792; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 12:55:45 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 12:55:45 -0400 Message-Id: <01HRKVH37QZMB64RYS@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU> Errors-To: r.macphail@cescc.bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Kalmus Full Scores X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 12:55:45 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@HCACAD.HOLYCROSS.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Kalmus Full Scores X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The 1994-95 Edwin F. Kalmus Orchestra Catalogue contains the following operas as available with full scores: Gondoliers HMS Pinafore Iolanthe Mikado Patience Pirates of Penzance Princess Ida Ruddigore (1920 DOC revision) Trial by Jury Yeomen I've not seen their scores for Patience, Princess Ida or Trial, and only an excerpt from Ruddigore; assuming these are no better than the example from Ruddigore (which is clean ms, decently aligned but evidently copied from band parts with some extrapolated corrections), they are probably useful only as a conductor's score at rehearsals and performances using these parts - but certainly far better than cued vocal scores and it appears these later ones are workmanlike jobs. The Mikado score is a reprint of the Bosworth edition ca. 1893, and is a valuable reference; a relatively inexpensive way to obtain good source material. As it disagrees in many particulars with the band parts it can be frustrating to work with unless the conductor makes a thorough comparitive study of it with the vocal score and orch. parts prior to the first orchestra rehearsal! The Iolanthe, Gondoliers and Pirates scores are amateur jobs copied from the band parts, using non-standard format (the vocal lines are presented above all of the instrumental parts). They are signed L.L. Woody Norvell. Cramped and difficult to read, they evidently were written so as to be reconciled with the Kalmus vocal scores (themselves purloined from other sources). Because of this many of the dynamics have become so messed with (including, on occasion, examples which are found in no source other than these full scores) as to be contradictory and therefore worse than useless. Errors in the parts are perpetuated along with additional errors introduced by the copyist. A solution for Gondoliers is to fix it using material from the Eulenberg study (full) score. The HMS Pinafore score may be somewhat more valuable. (My copy includes, by the way, a copyright notice - 1978). The editorial notes by John Bauser indicate its principal source was a full score believed to date from an early production, and Mr. Bauser calls it a "critical edition." It shows definite signs of indeed having been derived from an early source, but as it lacks detailed explanation of procedures and the details of all decision making, it cannot accurately be described as a reliable critical edition. (The "Editorial Notes" are little more than general statemements and fit onto a single page.) Kalmus has not yet produced anything on the Grand Duke with the exception of the Overture (which comes with a full score). They have band parts for Sorcerer, Utopia, the revised "Savoy" version of Cox and Box, and a version of Thespis by "Minor." +--------------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |College of the Holy Cross | are paramount." |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |Internet: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu | |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 15-Aug CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Sullivan's use of unifying motives (was: Word Frequency) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23835; Tue, 15 Aug 95 14:56:25 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23155; Tue, 15 Aug 95 14:56:21 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA04766; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:51 :14 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:51:14 -0400 Message-Id: <01HU3SM7PFDUB9SLV3@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan's use of unifying motives (was: Word Frequency) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** :14 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:51:14 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan's use of unifying motives (was: Word Frequency) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Tom's observation, that Sullivan's scores exhibit (in sometimes very subtle ways) use of musical devices such use of specific intervals to give each particular work its own unique identification, exemplifies the wealth and depth of research which has yet to be fully applied to Sullivan's music. It has long been noticed that Yeomen has its own musical language, which as different and unique as that of Iolanthe, Gondoliers, Pirates, Ruddigore or any of the others. In Iolanthe there are the contrasting musical worlds of the Fairies and Peers; Italian and Spanish rhythms dominate Gondoliers; Pirates has, for want of a better word, a "Piratical" musical language; and Ruddigore has the quaint fishing village folk style. (A side issue is the variety of oceanic music Sullivan commanded - compare Pinafore to Pirates, Ruddigore, and sailing music in Mikado (In "A Wandring Minstrel") and Gondoliers ("Then away we go to an island fair"). Sullivan achieved these atmospheres as much through strict theoretical means (such as highlighting themes and motives which would become atmospheric) as well by the more obvious tools such as exotic orchestration. His use of musical wit was similar; often his musical jokes are achieved far more subtly than by highlighting a comic bassoon phrase (which he also did). As to the Ruddigore trio transplated to Pirates, though, it doesn't particularly jar me. We should remember that G & S took the chorus from Thespis, which in 1879 was more than 8 years old, and used it in Pirates although Sullivan had surely progressed musically in that time (the time between Pirates and Ruddigore was less). Also, the musical links between Pirates and Ruddigore (ocean-oriented) were surely closer than the mountain-oriented tone painting of "Climbing Over Rocky Mountain" was to the sea-shore! The percentage of words which need changing in the Patter trio are about the same as in "Climbing" as well. It was, to me, particularly adroit to have ther scene in Pirates become a succession of contrasting trios. I can see what Tom means - when you have music so wedded to a particular set fo words and dramatic situation it can be something of a start to have it in another context. But Sullivan was used to this happening a lot. In Frederick's Act I ballad in Pirates, the original words he set to his tune were not "Who would not give up willingly All matrimonial ambition", but "He hates his life upon the wave..." You can hear the waves in the music and how the sentiment in the original words prompted Sullivan to write the music as he did. When it was subseuqently decided to rewrite the words, the music stayed as it was; and although it was still an effective song, the original unifying link between wordsd and music was lost. +--------------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |College of the Holy Cross | are paramount." |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |Internet: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu | |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 19-Aug Joel Jacklich #New Critical Edition of G&S??? Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02023; Sat, 19 Aug 95 14:05:43 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15956; Sat, 19 Aug 95 14:05:26 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA21786; Sat, 19 Aug 1995 14:01 :49 -0400 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 14:01:49 -0400 Message-Id: <9508191054.aa04800@ivc02.imperial.cc.ca.us> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Joel Jacklich To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Critical Edition of G&S??? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: SCO System V Mail (version 3.2) *** EOOH *** :49 -0400 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 14:01:49 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Joel Jacklich To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Critical Edition of G&S??? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: SCO System V Mail (version 3.2) This rather large posting is not meant to be an advertisement. But, if the planned project is as glorious as touted in the following attachment, I thought fellow Savoyards would welcome the information. The question now would seem to be: Is anyone familiar with the new "Critical Edition" of the complete G&S operas being published by Broude Brothers in New York? (General editors: Steven Ledbetter and Percy M. Young; editorial board: Reginald Allen, Dinah Barshaw, James Ellis, Philip Gossett, Roger Harris, Gerald Hendrie, John Bush Jones, David Mackie, Richard Sherr, Frederic Woodbridge Wilson, and John Wolfson.) They have published "Trial by Jury" as volume 1, and have just sent "H.M.S. Pinafore" to the engravers to become volume 2. (They changed the original order where "The Sorcerer" was to have been volume 2.) The "proofs" to "Pinafore" could be back as early as Christmas (with publication by summer?). Having clean engraved scores and parts rather than manuscript to read will certainly be a lot easier on the pit musicians! Anyone who has seen or used the first available critical edition of "Trial by Jury" please comment. Does it live up to its promise? I quote from Broude Brothers pre-publication publicity flyer of 1994: >This, the first critical edition of Gilbert and Sullivan's operas, presents >responsible texts for each of the thirteen collaborations for which the >complete music and libretto survive. Although the Savoy Operas are >certainly among the most popular works in the history of music, it is >only with the present project that a serious edition of these >compositions has been undertaken. Paradoxically, it has been the very >popularity of the Savoy Operas that has hindered the preparation of a >responsible edition. Concern about unauthorized productions of these >popular works led to careful control of the authoritative full scores, and >until recently the only full scores available to the general public were >inaccurate pirate editions. No full score of a Savoy Opera authorized by >composer and librettist was ever published; the only authoritative full >scores were Sullivan's autographs and the few manuscript copies made >within the D'Oyly Carte community. Even the music directors of the >D'Oyly Carte company, the guardians of the flame, so to speak, >customarily conducted from vocal scores. >Access to the authoritative sources has not been the only problem >confronting potential editors of an edition. Sullivan's autographs, which >must form the basis of any text of a Savoy Opera, present many >difficulties. Sometimes prepared in haste, often intended for colleagues >who were familiar with both his musical style and his musical shorthand, >Sullivan's autographs are filled with abbreviations and verbal >instructions that render them inaccessible to the casual reader; in fact, >there are numerous ambiguous readings that are not easily resolved even >by editors familiar with Sullivan's scribal habits. The difficulties of >establishing a text of a Savoy Opera discouraged not only those desirous >of preparing a responsible edition but even opportunists concerned >with nothing more than producing a rough and ready transcription for a >market desperate to get any score at all. >"Gilbert and Sullivan: The Operas" is a serious edition for which Gilbert >and Sullivan enthusiasts have waited. It benefits from participation of a >broad range of authorities: practical musicians (including former >members of the D'Oyly Carte organizations), musicologists, and textual >critics have all contributed to this edition--and their presence is >reflected in the makeup of the Editorial Board. The resulting edition is >intended as a pragmatic compromise between the scholarly and the >practical. The editors recognize that the edition will be used by scholars >who expect the text to reflect accurately all the details of the sources >and to identify various sorts of editorial intervention. But the editors >also recognize that the edition will also be used by performers and >conductors, some of whom may require more guidance than would be >provided by a literal transcription of the sources and some of whom >would be distracted by elaborate typographical distinctions identifying >each instance of editorial activity. Without being distractingly >intrusive, the mechanism adopted seeks to make users aware of editorial >process and to provide them with the data necessary to follow the >editor's, reasoning--and, where they are so inclined, to engage in second >guessing. >Each volume begins with an historical introduction discussing the >creation of the opera, its reception, and its stage history. There follows >a statement of the editorial policies, with full explanations of the ways >in which these policies have been developed to address the problems >posed by the work being edited. >At the center of each volume are the critical editions of the libretto and >score. Every effort has been made to keep the appearance of the score as >clean as possible while signalling "on the page" the various levels of >editorial intervention. The edition of the libretto precedes the score; it >is accompanied by a report of emendations and variants and by a >commentary that elucidates allusions and terminology that are >specialized or particular to Victorian England. >The critical apparatus consists of a detailed description of the sources, a >discussion of their relationships to each other, a report of all >emendations and of all variants in substantive sources, and a table of the >passages realized by following Sullivan's verbal instructions. >Appendices present such relevant documentation as sketches, excerpts >from correspondence, and music and text not present in the "settled" >version of the opera. The volume concludes with a bibliography. leted, as deadline is almost a year old, but the prices are included to give you an idea of the price. JJ] The quote continues: >The Critical Edition of Gilbert and Sullivan's operas will be complete in >thirteen volumes, one devoted to each of the operas for which the >complete musical score and libretto survives. Each volume will measure >approximately 25 by 33 cm. and will be printed on acid-free paper and >bound in durable library cloth. > 1. Trial by Jury > 2. The Sorcerer [This has been moved to a later publication order. JJ] > 3. H.M.S. Pinafore [This is now second in order of publication. JJ] > 4. The Pirates of Penzance > 5. Patience > 6. Iolanthe > 7. Princess Ida > 8. The Mikado > 9. Ruddigore > 10. The Yeomen of the Guard > 11. The Gondoliers > 12. Utopia, Limited > 13. The Grand Duke << End of quote There follow sample pages from the libretto, critical apparatus, and full score reduced 90% from the original. There follows a one-page order blank for the complete set as they come into publication, or for individual volumes. Those interested in obtaining more information about these editions may contact the following: Broude Brothers Limited 141 White Oaks Road Williamstown, MA 01267 USA Telephone (800) 525 8559 or from Continental Europe: Broude Europa Postfach 1327 D-92503 Nabburg, B.R.D. Telephone/Telefax (09606) 7252 ========== Joel Jacklich Music Dept. Head and Asst. Prof. of Music, Imperial Valley College (CA) Music Director/Conductor, Imperial Valley Symphony Telephone: (619) 352-8791 Snail Mail: 1904 Johnson Lane, El Centro, CA 92243-9547 USA E-mail: joel@ivc02.imperial.cc.ca.us ==========  1,, Summary-line: 18-Sep Ronald Orenstein #Re: Sullivan's 90s works Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20009; Mon, 18 Sep 95 15:23:55 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00866; Mon, 18 Sep 95 15:23:34 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA24663; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:22:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:22:50 -0400 Message-Id: <9509181921.AC25197@inforamp.net> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ornstn@inforamp.net (Ronald Orenstein) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Sullivan's 90s works X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:22:50 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ornstn@inforamp.net (Ronald Orenstein) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Sullivan's 90s works X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 >And, The Beauty Stone is a great story. Well, that is in the eye of the beholder. I find the story (though, as I said before, written in better style than Hood's or Burnand's) repulsive - like listening to a particularly pompous sermon. The moral (hardly a particularly novel; one) that beauty is not skin-deep and that only the blind can truly see may be edifying, I suppose, but I found myself responding not to that but to the feeling that physical beauty was somehow evil (plus, of course, the notion that if you aren't a warrior you are effeminate or something). The sanctimoniousness of it all nauseated me - but perhaps I am missing the point somehow? Plus, a trace of humour would have beeen nice... > >You and other people have mentioned the "music hall" or "musical comedy" element >in The Rose of Persia. Could you be more specific? point me to some place in >the score that is musical comedy-like? I ask this for information. The score >doesn't sound to me any different (in style) that The Chieftain or The Grand >Duke. The number "From morning prayer The Sultan of Persia comes" sounds like >any number of entrance songs S provided over the years, "Bustle, bustle" from >The Chieftain, for example, or "As before you we defile" from The Grand Duke. >Am I missing something? Well, other than the fact that they are both processionals I see all the difference in the world between "As before you we defile", which is almost too highbrow for its setting and quite original, and "From morning prayer" which surely (in its context) is a parody of any number of banal brass-band marches of the period (and is certainly not by the remotest description a "popular Persian tune!"). The latter is really closer in feeling to "Behold the Lord High Executioner" - the same joke, in fact, of having an official from an exotic land introduced with a very English tune, in that case "A fine old English gentleman" (actually I'm not sure how much of this is an actual quote. Anyone?). To me the whole score is much "brassier" - a bit cheaper, somehow - than Grand Duke which has a definite continental flavour (mind you, I like it!). That is what I mean by "music-hall". -- Ronald I. Orenstein Phone: (905) 820-7886 (home) International Wildlife Coalition Fax/Modem: (905) 569-0116 (home) Home: 1825 Shady Creek Court Messages: (416) 368-4661 Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5L 3W2 Internet: ornstn@inforamp.net Office: 130 Adelaide Street W., Suite 1940 Toronto, Ontario Canada M5H 3P5  1,, Summary-line: 21-Sep MadBarbara@aol.com #Platter Trio Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12112; Thu, 21 Sep 95 23:23:57 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10045; Thu, 21 Sep 95 23:23:35 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA28353; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:23:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:23:43 -0400 Message-Id: <950921232119_26020324@mail02.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: MadBarbara@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Platter Trio X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:23:43 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: MadBarbara@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Platter Trio X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum OK, Chris Wain, I can be flattered (flattered, flattered, flattered...). I wrote this baby and here it is: Trio for John the Baptist, Salome and Herod: "The Platter Trio" (sung, obviously, to the tune of the "Matter Trio" from Ruddygore) JOHN THE BAPTIST: My eyes are fully open to my awful situation For I should have known that Herod hated insubordination. I should never have expounded on his lack of moral senses (though I hadn't quite expected these appalling consequences). I was baptizing the faithful by the River Jordan's water When along came Princess Salome and led me to the slaughter. How I rue the day her father and Herodias begat her! When I wouldn't give my heart, she got my head upon a platter! ALL: Yes, his head is on a platter (etc.) SALOME: If I were not a little wild and generally horny I would never do a dance of seven veils -- that's pretty corny -- But my Uncle Herod likes it, and I kinda like to tease him 'Cause he'll give me anything I want as long as I can please him, And this hairy prophet ticked me off by spurning my advances; Now he knows I'd rather cut him off than offer second chances, So perhaps he's learned his lesson and will smile at me and flatter me, but hey! what does it matter now? His head is on a platter! ALL: Yes, his head is on a platter (etc.) HEROD: Before I heard the voice of that one crying in the wilderness I was a happy monarch, reigning peacefully -- but I digress. I'm married to my brother's wife, but why is that so criminal? And then, OK, there's Salome, and fantasies subliminal... I've got a mid-life crisis that I don't know how to handle And I have an awful feeling that there's gonna be a scandal. This particularly rapid, unintelligible patter Doesn't mean a lot to him, because his head is on a platter. ALL: Yes, his head is on a platter (etc.) Copyright 1995, Barbara Heroux (I do ask for proper credit, please, and to be told about it if anybody should put this on. Thank you!)  1,, Summary-line: 18-Oct DILLARDP@edu-suu-lifac.li #Gilbert's Productivity--Answer Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11939; Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:12:52 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27212; Wed, 18 Oct 95 10:12:41 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA20188; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:12:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:12:26 -0400 Message-Id: <95FE579B1@edu-suu-lifac.li.suu.edu> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Gilbert's Productivity--Answer X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:12:26 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Gilbert's Productivity--Answer X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The trivia question de jour asked how many works for the stage, including the Savoy operas, Gilbert created during his lifetime. The answer was (d) 72-- plus or minus, of course, depending on how carefully one counts. Our winner, David Stone, counted very carefully and came up with 77. Below is David's remarkable itemized list (in, apparently, chronological order) of Gilbert's stage works. Thanks, David. David Stone wrote: >The answer to your latest quiz (Gilbert's productivity) is d plus 5 (77): Ruy Blas Uncle Baby Hush-a-bye Baby... (with Charles Millward) Dulcamara La Vivandiere Robinson Crusoe (with Tom Hood, H. S. Leigh, Arthur Sketchley, etc.) Allow Me to Explain Highly Improbable Harlequin Cock Robin and Jenny Wren The Merry Zingara Robert the Devil No Cards The Pretty Druidess An Old Score Ages Ago The Princess The Gentleman in Black Our Island Home The Palace of Truth Randall's Thumb A Sensation Novel Creatures of Impulse Great Expectations On Guard Pygmalion and Galatea Thespis A Medical Man Happy Arcadia The Wicked World The Happy Land (with Gilbert a Beckett) The Realm of Joy The Wedding March A Colossal Idea Charity Ought We to Visit Her? Committed For Trial The Blue-Legged Lady Topsy-Turvydom Sweethearts Trial by Jury Tom Cobb Eyes and No Eyes Broken Hearts Princess Toto Dan'l Druce, Blacksmith On Bail Engaged The Sorcerer The Forty Thieves (with Robert Reece, F. C. Burnand, and Henry J. Byron) The Ne'er-Do-Weel The Vagabond H.M.S. Pinafore Gretchen Lord Mayor's Day (with ???) The Pirates of Penzance Patience Foggerty's Fairy Iolanthe Princess Ida Comedy and Tragedy The Mikado Ruddygore The Yeomen of the Guard Brantinghame Hall The Brigands The Gondoliers Rosencrantz and Guildenstern The Mountebanks "Haste to the Wedding" Utopia (Limited) His Excellency The Grand Duke The Fortune-Hunter Harlequin and the Fairy's Dilemma Fallen Fairies The Hooligan Trying a Dramatist >(Though I wouldn't argue with anyone who claims that The Ne'er-do-Weel and >The Vagabond should only count as one.) Thanks, again, to David for the above information. Phil dillardp@edu-suu-lifac.li.suu.edu  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 29-Oct Brian Sweeney #Happy Halloween Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28769; Sun, 29 Oct 95 23:28:35 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01677; Sun, 29 Oct 95 23:28:09 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA17351; Sun, 29 Oct 1995 23:27:45 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 23:27:45 -0500 Message-Id: <9510300422.AA14602@sjuphil.sju.edu> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: bs065903@sjuphil.sju.edu (Brian Sweeney) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Happy Halloween X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 23:27:45 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: bs065903@sjuphil.sju.edu (Brian Sweeney) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Happy Halloween X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] SavoyNetters and Friends, Here's my little Halloween treat, based on the Gilbert and Sullivan patter. Hope you enjoy. I've had it up my sleeve for three weeks now, and I could resist no longer!! The Monster Trio: DR. FRANKENSTEIN, the MONSTER, and the BRIDE (Inspired by the 1935 film, The Bride of Frankenstein) You know the scene: Dr. Frankenstein leads his monster over to his newly created Bride. She starts, he approaches, attempts to calm her, she starts again, shrinks away, opens her eyes wide and ... _sings_. BRIDE: (To the audience) My eyes are fully open to my awful situation For a wedding with this creature doesn't fill my with elation, And I customarily do not regard to be a trophy Any fellow whose physique is so exceptionally oafy! Now you're certain to point out that I am prematurely greying, And I heartily concur with ev'ry thing that you are saying. I have been alive a minute and already growing fatter, But I'm still to good for *him* and so it really doesn't matter! DOCTOR. Yes, it really doesn't matter! MONSTER. Yes, it really doesn't matter! ALL. Yes, it really doesn't matter matter matter matter matter!! DOCTOR. (To the monster) If I were not a little mad and generally crazy I would give you some advice that would be certain to amaze ye, For I once was rather clever when it came to winsome wooing, (Which is just the very thing that you are needing to be doing) Then I greeted the refusal of a woman with defiance -- But I fear that that was long before I got involved in Science. Since I started this profession I'm as mad as any hatter, So I guess you're on your own, for my opinion doesn't matter! BRIDE. His opinion doesn't matter! MONSTER. His opinion doesn't matter! ALL. His/my opinion doesn't matter matter matter matter matter!! MONSTER. (His hand on the destruct switch) Though I wouldn't say this brain o' mine's exceptionally active, Yet it's clear to me this lady finds me slightly unattractive. To a lady of her stature I must seem a merest minion, And she's not at all alone in her unflattering opinion. To society at large I am an oafish ignoramus, And the average indiwiddle isn't sure of what my name is! With an ending that's explosive I'll conclude this pitter patter, In a moment we'll be dead, and so it really doesn't matter! DOCTOR. Yes, it really doesn't matter! BRIDE. Yes, it really doesn't matter! ALL. Yes, it really doesn't matter matter matter matter matter! No, it _really_ doesn't matter matter matter matter matter!! Happy Halloween, all! Brian +---------------------------------------+ | Brian Sweeney, bs065903@sju.edu | "She of beauty was a model | St. Joseph's University | When a tiny tiddle toddle! | English, Class of '98 | And at twenty-one | Phone: (215) 743-9444 | She's excelled by none!" | http://www.sju.edu/~bs065903/home.htm | | Visit my Gershwin page! (at my page) | W.S. Gilbert, THE GONDOLIERS +---------------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 30-Oct Helga Perry #All-Purpose Opera Plot Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10126; Mon, 30 Oct 95 18:31:28 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23778; Mon, 30 Oct 95 18:31:01 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA25036; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:30:56 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:30:56 -0500 Message-Id: <2636@grhlib.demon.co.uk> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Helga Perry To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: All-Purpose Opera Plot X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:30:56 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Helga Perry To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: All-Purpose Opera Plot X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d A friend of mine sent me this to pass on to you all Helga -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Helga Perry EMail helga@grhlib.demon.co.uk Medical Library, Gloucestershire Royal NHS Trust FAX +44 1452-394170 "He's in the Army now, When he blows Reveille He's the Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy of Company B" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded Message. I was intrigued by one of your cyber-correspondents rewrite of the plot of Turandot. I think he didn't go nearly far enough, though; what we need is an all-purpose opera plot (saves the trouble of learning what the music is meant to be about). Try this... TURANDOT (plot synopsis, encyclopaedia version) Prologue: The mandarin Can-Yo sings a warning against jealousy, unrewarded loyalty and sudden death. He then announces that the Prince of Arabia will be executed at sunset. Act 1: Princess Turandot, the Golden Girl of West Peking, buries her Hebrew slave-girl Mimi in a pyramid, and then goes off to attend a masked ball, leaving her three Ugly Sisters Ming, Tang and Sung. Sung sings a song about her little bamboo house beside the beautiful blue Vienna lakes. Act 2: At the ball, Turandot dances the Grand Waltz with her lover, Pinkerton, who is masked as an unknown Prince. (Translator's note: in English, this should read "disguised as a second trombone".) They are watched jealously by the evil Baron von Falstaff, chief of the secret police, who has lustful designs on Turandot. (2nd translator's note: in the children's matinee programme, this should read "he wants to marry her".) Turandot's father, the Emperor Wo-Tan, announces that Turandot will marry the man who composes the best song before dawn in answer to his three enigmas (variations will be disqualified). Turandot naturally hopes that Pinkerton will win, but during the Prelude to Act 3, von Falstaff falls asleep and dreams the Wedding March. Act 3: As dawn approaches, the Imperial Court assembles by the river to hear the Singspiel. (3rd translator's note: in the original Chinese, this reads "sing-song".) Turandot is missing; she is sulking in her bedroom with Achilles. Von Falstaff sings his winning song and claims his prize; the Court in reply sing "Nessun dorma" and hail him as Protector of Peking. He calls on the Emperor to give him Turandot; the Emperor orders his daughter to come out of the Palace ("In questa reggia"). Turandot appears on a balcony, attended by the Prince of Arabia's ghost and by her maid, Juliet. On learning what has happened, she challenges von Falstaff to a duel, and shoots him fatally with a silver bullet. The dying von Falstaff is changed into a black swan and floats away down the Khovanschina River; the despairing Turandot throws herself from the balcony. Act 4: Just when you thought the opera had to end because all the principals are dead, Pinkerton returns! He sings the moving aria "Bella notte, notte d'amore" ("One Fine Night at the Chinese Opera"). He is then accused of being a Fledermaus disguised as a lawyer, but it turns out that he is really a lawyer disguised as a lady's maid. A clock strikes ten; the chorus decide they are wasting valuable drinking time and march off, singing "Let's Make An Opera in the Bar". The conductor drops his hands for silence, turns to the audience and says "Ladies and gentlemen, at this point the maestro died"; he then leads the musicians off to join the chorus in the bar, and the opera ends with general rejoicing. As the curtain falls, Turandot (who landed in the river and was only changed into a Rhine-maiden) is heard demanding her favourite cocktail, a Turn of the Screwdriver. Epilogue: the composer Alfalfa applies to the European Community for a grant to complete Act 4, and is awarded funds to leave the music alone under the agricultural set-aside policy. Get out of that! Yours, Tim. tehodgetts@dra.hmg.gb  1,, Summary-line: 30-Oct Judy Nathanson #My humble patter Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11832; Mon, 30 Oct 95 21:30:38 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19259; Mon, 30 Oct 95 21:30:11 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA26806; Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:30:06 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:30:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199510310226.SAA17627@ix.ix.netcom.com> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: nathnet@ix.netcom.com (Judy Nathanson ) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: My humble patter X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:30:06 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: nathnet@ix.netcom.com (Judy Nathanson ) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: My humble patter X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum WHEN I WAS A LASS I PLAYED OUT GAMES WITH DOLLS AND ANIMALS I GAVE STRANGE NAMES I SAT THEM DOWN AND SANG WITH GLEE AND PRETENDED THEY WERE SINGING BACK TO ME MY FAMILY SMILED AND GATHERED NEAR AND NOW I AM DIRECTOR OF THE THEATER HERE I LAUGHED AND PLAYED WITH DOLLS SO GOOD I GATHERED CHILDREN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD I WROTE GREAT LINES FOR THEM TO SAY IN MY BACK YARD WHERE THEY WOULD COME TO PLAY THEIR RELATIVES TURNED OUT TO CHEER AND NOW I AM DIRECTOR OF THE THEATER HERE WHEN MY YARD GOT TOO SMALL FOR ME I JOINED A LOCAL THEATER COMPANY MY FELLOW ACTORS ASKED REAL NICE TO KINDLY GIVE THEM ALL SOME GOOD ADVICE I TALKED OF BOOSTING THEIR CAREER AND NOW I AM DIRECTOR OF THE THEATER HERE AND AFTER YEARS IN ACTING CLASS I HOB-NOBBED WITH THE THESPIAN TOP BRASS I FLATTERED THEM, ALTHOUGH BENEATH SOMETIMES I HAD TO LIE BETWEEN MY TEETH I BOUGHT THEM FRUIT AND NUTS AND BEER AND NOW I AM DIRECTOR OF THE THEATER HERE I ANSWERED THEN A LOCAL AD FOR ONE GROUP NEEDING A DIRECTOR BAD I MUTTERED LOW AS I GOT TO THE DOOR "I NEVER REALLY STAGED A SHOW BEFORE; BUT I CAN DO IT; HAVE NOT FEAR" AND NOW I AM DIRECTOR OF THE THEATER HERE SO IF YOU TREAD UPON STAGE FLOORS AND FEEL THE URGE TO BECOME DIRECTORS IF YOU CAN'T SHOW OFF FINE DEGREES DON'T WORRY, THEY DON'T REALLY RELISH THESE JUST PUT ON "AN ACT" AND BUY THE BEER AND YOU ALL MAY BE DIRECTORS OF THE THEATER HERE Judy Nathanson  1,, Summary-line: 15-Nov Sternenberg, Philip #Re: Compleat G&S Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by e40-po.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24275; Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:50:57 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06423; Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:50:07 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA11832; Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:49:47 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:49:47 -0500 Message-Id: <30AA438B@ms-mail-gate.hac.vlt.eds.com> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Compleat G&S X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:49:47 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Compleat G&S X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 >My opinion of the [Brent Walker] ones I've seen: > >Yeomen Dreadful - *BOTH* of Fairfax's solos cut, and the lib mangled > beyond all recognition (well, almost) Agreed. Also cut were "Alas, I waver," "Strange adventure," "When a wooer," "Rapture, rapture," and the first verse of "When maiden loves." (When you start to watch a "compleat" production and the first words of the opera are missing, your expectations take an immediate nosedive!) The libretto wasn't that mangled except that almost the entire Elsie-Fairfax scene was cut (so then why does she later accept "Leonard's" proposal?), and the final Meryll-Carruthers scene was cut (so why are they paired up at the end?). >Pirates Pretty good. No cuts. It seemed a bit dull, though, maybe coming out as soon after the Papp version as it did. >Pinafore Pretty good. Frankie Howerd as Sir Joseph is particularly good I must disagree. Although there weren't any cuts, Howerd often didn't come close to the dialogue Gilbert wrote. Peter Marshall's song-and-dance man Captain was also a bit too radical, but I could have accepted him better had it not been for Howerd. >Ruddigore OK. IMHO, the ghosts just aren't nasty enough, otherwise OK. See my other post for my opinions. >Patience Very good. No cuts. This is where I 'researched' my Duke > from, when we put the show on last year. Agreed. This had the advantage of being based on the English National Opera production, and Donald Adams were there as well. Visually it's gorgeous. >Princess Ida Pretty good. No cuts. I think the way this one is done as > a 'play within a play' works well. Melissa is > also very good. The only musical cut is "Come, mighty Must!", but a lot of isolated lines of dialogue are also missing. The dialogue cuts aren't distracting unless one is waiting for a particular line that never comes. Frank Gorshin as Gama was arguably the best American in the series. He "spoke" a little too much of his music, but I loved his characterization. IDA rivals PATIENCE in visual appeal. >Iolanthe Can't remember an awful lot about this one, but I seem to > remember it being at least OK. > >Kelsey Thornton Uncut and with creative use of video technology, this may be my favorite. The performance was competent albeit not spectacular, but I'm judging it on more than that. As for the others: COX & BOX: Excellent on all counts. It was the first time I ever heard the gambling duet. Most of the original version was restored. TRIAL: Using Overture di Ballo as a prelude underneath a pantomime of trial preparations was clever. Howerd was better than in PINAFORE. Of course here he didn't have any dialogue to screw up, but his singing was often semi-spoken and literally offbeat. Still, it was a lot of fun and it was uncut. SORCERER: Further proof that the less known an opera was, the better the production tended to be. Adams finally got a chance to be seen as Marmaduke and was excellent in it. One nice touch that involved him was to use voiceovers (i. e., lips not moving) in the asides in his duet with Sangazure. The only "celebrity" was Clive Revill as Wells, but Revill has a legitimate G&S reputation. My only disappointment was that SORCERER didn't take as much advantage of video technology as IOLANTHE did. It was an uncut 1884 version, even including the repeat at "I do confess an anxious care" that the recordings omit. MIKADO: Uncut musically, but the "boiling oil" dialogue was a jarring cut, especially in light of the cauldrons used in the final scene. William Conrad was a big letdown; he made little use of his potential to be menacing. I liked Gordon Sandison's Pish-Tush, a takeoff on Hirohito. It was a rare and successful attempt to make Pish-Tush a memorable character. GONDOLIERS: The only musical cut was Verse 2 of "For the merriest fellows are we," but there were dialogue condensations as in IDA. I thought it was competent but no better. Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" 16 Hallberg Avenue Bergenfield, NJ 07621-2616 (201) 489-4155 (weekdays 9:00 AM - 1:30 PM) (201) 384-1396 (otherwise) philip@hkvltpo1.hkvlt001.hac.vlt.eds.com  1,, Summary-line: 10-Dec CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Re: Princess Ida/Research Help Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27781; Sun, 10 Dec 95 12:57:52 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09463; Sun, 10 Dec 95 12:57:50 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA07346; Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:57:47 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:57:47 -0500 Message-Id: <01HYN4WWA2F6BQ6EJT@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Princess Ida/Research Help X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:57:47 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Princess Ida/Research Help X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum A book which is extremely helpful for directors of G & S is "Gilbert and Sullivan Production" by Peter Kline, one of a series of textbooks called "The Theatre Student", copyright 1972 and published by the Richard Rosen Press, Inc. It was still in print a few years ago (the version I have is the Revised Edition). Each one of the operas is given a thorough overview, with lengthy critical discussions, character sketches, notes on staging, outlines of scenery and costume requirements, musical values and problems, etc. In particular Mr. Kline's observations are penetrating and knowlegeable. He is definitely a "traditionalist" so don't expect much in the way of avant garde in his book, but you will find many helpful suggestions as well as information as to how D'OC did things in some instances. Other chapters include "A Brief History of Gilbert and Sullivan Opera", "Style of Production Developed by W. S. Gilbert", "Variations in Production Style", and at the end of series of chapters devoted to production problems, which are especially helpful to those just starting up a company. All of operas are given chapters, including Thespis, Utopia and Grand Duke. The appendix includes the original vocal score for "Fold your flapping wings" from Iolanthe and the final recitative in Pianfore for Sir Joseph, Hebe etc for which dialogue was eventually substituted. +--------------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |College of the Holy Cross | are paramount." |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |Internet: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu | |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 9-Jan TZS@aol.com #Re: The Lost Barbershop Chord Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19191; Tue, 9 Jan 96 12:10:51 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10622; Tue, 9 Jan 96 12:10:45 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA12393; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:10:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:10:43 -0500 Message-Id: <960109120804_86575086@mail06.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: TZS@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Lost Barbershop Chord X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:10:43 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: TZS@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Lost Barbershop Chord X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In a message dated 96-01-09 10:46:07 EST, you write: >Seated one day in my bedroom >I was weary and ill at ease, >And my fingers wandered idly >Under my wife's chemise... > > I know not where I was playing Or whom she was thinking of then, But she let out a wondrous holler Which was something about "Ah, men!" (Time for me to do an honest day's work. Regards, TZS)  1,, Summary-line: 22-Jan Fraser Charlton #Re: G&S satires Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10916; Mon, 22 Jan 96 12:37:21 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10898; Mon, 22 Jan 96 12:37:04 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA01781; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:37:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:37:12 -0500 Message-Id: Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Fraser Charlton To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: G&S satires X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:37:12 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Fraser Charlton To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: G&S satires X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 On Fri, 19 Jan 1996, Matt Kimmel wrote: > This is an attempt to start a new thread on something that I've been interested > in for a while: Gilbert and Sullivan satires. I know of at least two full- > length parodies ("Wicked Waxworks", by Fraser Charlton, and "The Founding", > by Mary Finn and Robert Weingart)... Of course, as Mary has pointed out, hers had original music while mine was a hastily-cobbled together effort... But as for the ones I know about... Newcastle University G&S have been doing G&S parodies, on and off, since the late '70s, so there are a fair few. I've been in quite a lot, but only the ones that I've written, so modesty forbids... Actually, for my later shows I don't really like the word 'parody', as there are basically, apart from 'Mutiny', original shows that I happen to use Sullivan's music in, and not really parodies. Perhaps 'extravaganzas', like Gilbert's first shows, or even 'ballad operas', which tended to scavenge music, too. Whatever, there are quite a few big hits currently running of this ilk ('Return to the Forbidden Planet', 'Five Guys named Moe' and Ken Hill's 'Phantom of the Opera' for instance), so it's not altogether a redundant form. One day I'll write a book on the subject. Anyway, the parodies I know of (and have seen or read)... Father Christmas (1977) by Bill Tarpy and someone else. Very funny pantomime about a business entrepreneur taking over Christmas. Recently (1994) updated. The Demon Alcohol (1978) by Dave Wilmore. Sort of Iolanthe meets the Sorcerer. Not terribly good script, hardly re-written lyrics. Phantom of the Operetta (1979), can't remember the authors. Set in a typical University G&S Society, the principal comic baritone fails to get his expected part of Ko-Ko in a rather 'different' production of 'Mikado' and becomes the Phantom... Very good indeed (I saw it), though rather un-PC for today's tastes. [For summaries of all the following, look at the Newcastle G&S homepages - http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~ngssoc] Wicked Waxworks (1988 and 1994). The prequel to Trial and The Sorcerer by me. An affectionate tribute to the masters. (N.B. no swapped at birth babies here, Matt, just separated ones!) Penzance II: The Pirates Strike Back! (1989) by Christopher Egdell. Sequel to Pirates, but not a very good one, I'm afraid. Overlong and confused (saw it, wasn't in it). The Philanderer (1990 & 1995) by me. One act Wildean-type musical farce. Modern Girls (1991) by me. One act Shavian-type satire on 'isms'. The Wreckers of Red Rock (1992) by me. The Ultimate Melodrama. Full length, and my personal favourite. Robin Hood and his Merry Persons (1993) by me. Full length political satire - G&S meets Monty Python and the Holy Grail! Mutiny on the Pinafore (1995) by me again. Sequel to Pinafore - subtitle 'The Fall and Rise of Captain Corcoran'. Bridges the gap to Utopia... To this list I could add 'Gilbert and Sullivan go Wilde' which the Edinburgh University G&S did at the Fringe this year (didn't see it) and the various pantomimes that can be hired that use G&S songs (can't remember where from, though). There - will that keep you going for a bit? And sorry for blowing my own trumpet... but _somebody_ has to! Fraser (in a good mood following a delightful trip to Aberdeen). """ Fraser.Charlton@ncl.ac.uk dO-Ob Tel. 0191 222 6000 ext. 8148 \_/ Microbiology, Medical School, Newcastle Upon Tyne WWW HomePage: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~nfc2  1,, Summary-line: 22-Jan Mike Storie #Re: Shooting Cameraman, Etc. Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14274; Mon, 22 Jan 96 18:53:56 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07856; Mon, 22 Jan 96 18:53:33 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA07759; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:53:28 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:53:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199601222351.PAA24044@montana.nwlink.com> Errors-To: rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Shooting Cameraman, Etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:53:28 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Shooting Cameraman, Etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: I appreciate very much the kind public words of Douglas Whaley and Brian Sweeney about The Seattle Gilbert & Sullivan Society's recent video efforts (The Mikado and Rudd(y)gore). And while I havn't had a chance to see any of the Buxton videos yet, I can appreciate the frustration of not being able to capture these "once in a lifetime G&S moments." In line with Doug's suggestion that we use Savoynet to help solve this difficulty, here are some suggestions from someone who has done it. Since the secret is rapidly leaking out, YES (barring financial catastrophe), our company will be performing HMS Pinafore in Buxton next summer. Not only that, but our video director (Skip Barttels) will be there to document the trip (Up to this point, he hadn't planned to tape our show there - he will be doing that in Seattle). I have been communicating with both Neil and Ian Smith in Buxton quite regularly and will bring up the videos when I call him later in the week. I understand they plan to be in the States (Philly) in a couple of weeks. One or both of them may be able to visit Seattle during that trip. If they do we will certainly discuss videos with them. Skip has volunteered to help out any way he can, including hireing on as a consultant. (I don't think Neil and Ian regularly see Savoynet postings. They are more attuned to FAX. However, I will FAX any relevant postings to them.) Doing video to the quality level we have attempted for our Seattle productions would be a MAJOR effort for a festival such as Buxton and some sort of sponsorship would be necessary. (Even with a ton of highly skilled volunteer labor, we need to sell over 170 of our videos each year at $30 each just to break even.) I don't know what the market would be for Buxton tapes, although there may be some economy of scale involved. I assume that the "winning" entries would sell better, as would the more popular shows. There could also be a market for a "highlights" tape of some sort. (We, ourselves, are quickly learning about fiscal reality! For those planning trips to either Buxton or Philladelphia, please remember that the Olympic Games are being held in Atlanta, GA at the same time. This plus it being the "high season" for the airlines means that they arn't much inclined to dicker. We've got to raise over $50,000 just for air fare - Seattle to Manchester. On top of that, these actors get hungry!) Skip and I (Skip knows all the technical stuff, I did all the management stuff - including getting the Trustees to spring for it.) would be happy to share our experiences on making videos of G&S productions but perhaps this should be done in private postings due to the length. It is certainly essential that the person(s) running the cameras know both the show and the production at hand. This includes the blocking, the sound, and the lighting. Home-style camera equipment is generally not up to this. For example, in Act II of our recent Rudd(y)gore, when the bridesmaids in their white dresses danced onto the melodramatically lit picture gallery you could practically see the home video camera blink! Because the video director knew this was coming he could alert the camera operators and the engineer to adjust accordingly. For our own shows, we of course have the advantage of knowing the production in advance, have a marked-up score to follow, and are sitting in the same control booth with the production stage manager who is calling the ques. At a festival, where the time to get to know the show is very short, it would seem that communication with the acting company beforehand (and even the submission of a rehearsal video) would allow the video director to get a jump start on doing it right. With three cameras, you also have the luxury of having one camera kept on a wide angle in case the other two get fooled. When you are watching a G&S duet or trio for the first time, it is always tricky to know who to follow at the end of a refrain. If the people at Buxton or Philly could rent cameras and the recording equipment for the duration, then each company could have a visiting video director. Or if a company didn't have such a person, a local director (who generically knows the show being presented) could spend the day with that company, annotate their rehearsals and give it his/her best shot. Using three cameras of course compounds the editing work. As I mentioned, this is not inexpensive even when most of the labor is volunteered. You also need to find space in the theater for the three cameras without unduly disturbing the audience. As Brian Sweeney remarked, it is essential for the director to not only know the show but to ENJOY it. In our Mikado production, Skip Barttels and I also served as supernumeraries. Skip appeared as a bodyguard for Ko-Ko when he makes his grand entrance. Skip (right guard, as we called him) came out with a black executioner's hood over his head. We almost lost camera #2 when the woman operating it recognized her boss on the stage! Of course she had to pass this information on to the other operators through their headsets. I could hear this happening from the booth and to this day I don't know how they held their cameras still while laughing so hard. If anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to contact me. Mike Storie Seattle Gilbert & Sullivan Society mstorie@nwlink.com  1,, Summary-line: 31-Jan CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Re: Cast Sizes Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03390; Wed, 31 Jan 96 13:30:49 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16353; Wed, 31 Jan 96 13:30:30 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA22502; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:30:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:30:42 -0500 Message-Id: <01I0NTDXI34IBRO9V3@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cast Sizes X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:30:42 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cast Sizes X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The standard chorus size for the G & S operas prior to its move to the new Savoy Theatre was 40 - evenly divided between men and women. With the move to the Savoy came a larger ensemble - the term employed by D'Oyly Carte was "increased chorus." For Gondoliers it evidently was 25 women and 25 men. These numbers allowed for the split distribution in Yeomen (there may well have been additional men hired for that opera anyway). The last few decades of the old D'Oyly Carte company saw a decline in numbers in the chorus, evidently for economic reasons. The chorus size is important to the overall musical effect intended by Sullivan. Remember that we are also talking about quality and size of voices as well. 40 well trained voices, with good coaching, can achieve wonderously spectacular and beautiful sounds. To accomplish anything like that with amateur voices, some of whom lack the power, range and flexibility necessary, might require an ensemble of 60 or more (not a practical solution in many instances). One might then consider why a company with severely limited choral resources, as was described in the post referred to, would consider it a reasonable enterprise to undertake a large, chorus-heavy opera like Grand Duke (or Utopia, or Iolanthe, etc. etc.). A case in point is the ongoing production in Boston by the Huntington Theater Company. Highly praised in most respects, the critic of the Boston Globe rather perceptively noted that the Act I finale simply didn't hold together without a chorus (there were 14 people in the entire company - good, big voices but who were called upon to sing everything in that finale). This company also (for economic reasons) had a "orchestra" of 7!!! (One was a piano). Sullivan's music simply cannot be represented adequately by such a group, no matter how competent the individual musicians may be. A major reason G & S has such a lousy reputation among certain theatrical types is, in my opinion, the misrepresentation given these works by companies, both amateur and professional, which shortchanges musical values because of misplaced priorities and/or economic circumstances. It is telling, however, to think of how money miraculously appears when it comes to things such as set construction, costume building or rental, elaborate programs and posters, etc. but musical matters are considered less vital. It is, to some extent, the result of modern audiences being so craving visual stimuli and, at the same time, becoming more impatient with having to think about dialogue or listen critically to the music. +--------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |P.O. Box 195A | are paramount." |College of the Holy Cross | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |1 College Street | |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 U.S.A.| |Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu| |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 1-Feb DglsWhaley@aol.com #HIS EXCELLENCY Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19780; Thu, 1 Feb 96 15:01:21 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29007; Thu, 1 Feb 96 15:00:58 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA03213; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:00:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:00:33 -0500 Message-Id: <960201145657_211695984@mail06.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:00:33 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I have the vocal score to His Excellency (xeroxed from a copy in the UCLA library), and have picked out most of it on the piano, and it is rather uninteresting musically. "Quixotic is His Enterprise" has been recorded a number of times (I have two versions). Having said that, I want to second Brian's enthusiasm for the libretto. If Sullivan had set it to music we would all still be singing it still. Given the general disregard for the current score, I suspect that no one is ever going to revive it for public presentation, but that gives me an idea. I first logged on to Savoynet last summer, and have been very interested in the posted discussions. A G&S enthusiast since but a boy, it is thrilling to find others of the same bent. But I have begun to wonder if we are making the most use of our collective expertise. If no one else will ever record His Excellency, why can't we do it? I mean, boys and girls, let's put on a show! "Savoynet Productions Presents HIS EXCELLENCY." What I want to suggest is a musicology project that would work something like this: Someone or some group of people agree to type up the libretto and insert it into the Archives, so we are all aware of the scope of the piece. Then we set up some clearinghouse by which the person who takes charge of the project (volunteers welcome), called, say "The Director" farms out the various numbers to singers who also volunteer to record same (solos, duets, etc.). Each volunteer engages to make a recording of his/her number and return it to the Director. The extended choral numbers would be harder to do, but not impossible. For the recording I made of The Contrabandista, I got together a group of talented friends over a period of a year and slowly we did each number, dividing the choral numbers up over different nights and splicing it all together. Or, perhaps, each of the various G&S groups who have representatives on Savoynet could be persuaded to devote time to recording the more complicated parts of the opera (so that, for example, some group like Lamplighters would tackle the Act One finale). The numbers would then be assembled by the Director, dialogue could be recorded last (or each segment leading to a number could be recorded with its own dialogue), and the Savoynet recording of His Excellency could then be assembled, and distributed worldwide through Savoynet for no more than the cost of mailing and the cost of whatever size cassette is required. Granted that with different singers/actors playing the same roles but recording different parts of the show the final product would not have the consistency of a routine production, but at least we would end up with a recording of His Excellency. Where else are we ever going to get one? Is anyone else interested in pursuing this? Douglas Whaley Columbus, Ohio (614)846-5911 email: "Nothing is more annoying than to feel you're not equal to the intellectual pressure of the conversation."  1,, Summary-line: 2-Feb DglsWhaley@aol.com #HIS EXCELLENCY Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06493; Fri, 2 Feb 96 14:29:33 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20432; Fri, 2 Feb 96 14:28:58 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA10434; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:28:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:28:56 -0500 Message-Id: <960202142611_412944874@emout07.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:28:56 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In addition to the postings to the whole Savoynet, there have been a number of you who have send private messages to me supporting the idea of a Savoynet production of His Excellency. I really think that it is important that we use the original music, however bad it may be, otherwise the world is not likely to ever know what it sounded like. Here is how I suggest we start. We need volunteers to type the libretto and post it to the Archives. If enough people volunteer, it shouldn't be that daunting a task. Lurkers, take note: anyone who has the time to do some typing is welcome to help. Contact me and volunteer and I'll start dividing up the libretto. If you already have a copy of the libretto, let me know. Otherwise, I'll xerox my copy and send it to you via snail mail. Once the libretto is in the Archives, I'll ask for volunteers who want to take a stab at recording the various numbers, and then I'll keep track of who is doing what. I suppose that makes me the Director I mentioned before, but I would turn the job over to anyone who wants it in a flash. However, as I am always saying at faculty meetings, a task belongs to the person who suggests it, so I guess I'll at least start. Now let me hear from those willing to do the typing, and also would someone please send me instructions on the format for the Archives submission. This could be a great deal of fun and we could end up with a product that would at least give a good idea what His Excellency sounded like, and perhaps the only version ever recorded. I also suggest that we claim no sort of copyright in it, but, as true lovers of G&S, distribute it as our contribution to a further understanding of their body of work. Douglas Whaley Columbus, Ohio (614)846-5911 email: "Nothing is more annoying than to feel you're not equal to the intellectual pressure of the conversation."  1,, Summary-line: 3-Feb CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---FULL ORCHESTRA!?! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13591; Sat, 3 Feb 96 16:19:15 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10033; Sat, 3 Feb 96 16:18:55 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA15699; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:18:59 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:18:59 -0500 Message-Id: <01I0S6DCNY5UBRQ3VN@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---FULL ORCHESTRA!?! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:18:59 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---FULL ORCHESTRA!?! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I hate to be one who pricks the bubble, but if the idea of putting His Excellency together is to assign individual musical numbers to various persons all over the country (or the world, as has been suggested), the result is inevitably going to be a hodgepodge. Without a supervisory person, who would be: a) Sufficiently knowledgeable of the stylistic and performance practices b) Able to take an unfamiliar score and mold a performance which make sense (and this in particular being, by all accounts, a score which needs all the loving care it can get) with reasonable tempi and continuity among the musical numbers - i.e. *consistency* ..what is likely to happen is a ragtag assemblage performed by people with radically different approaches and styles - not to mention levels of competence. If this were to be the result it would be better not to begin it at all. A suggestion, which I hope is constructive: Find a well established organization which would be willing to stage it. Provide it with performing materials, including whatever orchestration might be extant (if it's a full score only, offer to help with copying out the parts). For the future make the performance materials available on line to members of SavoyNet. Record the live performance(s) and edit them, or have a recording session afterwards. But don't labor under the romantic notion that such a project has much chance of succeeding if various people, separated by distance, each contribute a movement without any supervising direction. It may sound terribly democratic and fun, but the result is likely to be a mess. +--------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |P.O. Box 195A | are paramount." |College of the Holy Cross | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |1 College Street | |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 U.S.A.| |Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu| |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 4-Feb Mike Storie #HIS EXCELLENCY - Traveling with a full band. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10857; Sun, 4 Feb 96 02:18:25 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06263; Sun, 4 Feb 96 02:18:03 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id CAA18088; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:18:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:18:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199602040719.XAA05657@alaska.nwlink.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY - Traveling with a full band. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:18:06 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY - Traveling with a full band. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Given the great strides that Jean Fleury and others have made converting the G&S overtures to MIDI files, it seems to me that communicating orchestral music over the net for collaboration purposes would be pretty easy and not too much of a technical stretch. All you need is a sound card, some speakers and some additional software. I'm confident that I can play a tune on my piano keyboard, into my MIDI sequencer, save it as a MIDI file, and transmit it to anyone else on the net, who can load it into their MIDI sequencer and play it through their own sound module and sound system. Only a single line of melody would be required for communicating the style of the piece or for modifying it or the words as necessary. It is directly analogous to a pianist tinkling out a melody while the lyrisist writes the words. Only they can now be thousands of miles apart! The final product could then be fully (MIDI) orchestrated by those with suitable talent and the resultant orchestration printed by suitable notation software. This would imply that not only would we have the first comic opera written by a network of people world-wide, but it would be playable on the net! Mike Storie mstorie@nwlink.com  1,, Summary-line: 5-Feb DglsWhaley@aol.com #HIS EXCELLENCY---STATUS REPORT Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22172; Mon, 5 Feb 96 21:57:27 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29079; Mon, 5 Feb 96 21:56:59 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA29238; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:56:58 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:56:58 -0500 Message-Id: <960205215521_136861192@mail06.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY---STATUS REPORT X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:56:58 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY---STATUS REPORT X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I've been getting a number of comments, both publicly and privately, about the proposed production of His Excellency along the lines previously suggested. It is said that if we're going to do it, we ought to do it with an orchestra. That would be wonderful, but I can't imagine how to accomplish that (feel free to speak up here if you have an orchestra at your disposal). Helga suggests that we make this a project for the 1997 Buxton Festival. Hear, Hear, Hear! Unfortunately, I don't have the resources or time to organize it (but, Helga, as I am fond of saying, tasks belong to those who propose them---you can count on me as a member of your committee). Those of you in G&S companies are particularly bothered by the fact that the resulting product will obviously be a thing of shreds and patches and not at all the beautifully unified presentation to which you are accustomed. If any company volunteers to produce (and record) His Excellency, I will stop this nonsense in a flash and buy a ticket. But here's what I worry about: if we drop this chance to record His Excellency, _no one_ will do it, and we'll all go to our graves wondering what this opera would have sounded like. If we put together our various talents, we can certainly produce an audio recording that will give the world a chance to glimpse whatever is there. _Of course_ the performances will vary in quality and so will the recording levels and the tempi and all. But we will all have access to an actual recording of His Excellency, and perhaps that will then spur someone to put it on, correcting our mistakes and revealing the orchestration. Many of you have sent me very supportive posts, volunteering to help, and I've saved all your names. On top of everything else, this should be fun to do and fun to listen to the result. So I'm stilling moving on with this, and I'll let you know as things begin to happen. Please keep sending me your ideas. Douglas Whaley Columbus, Ohio (614)846-5911 email: "Nothing is more annoying than to feel you're not equal to the intellectual pressure of the conversation."  1,, Summary-line: 6-Feb DILLARDP@edu-suu-lifac.li #G&S Journal Index Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20063; Tue, 6 Feb 96 10:52:37 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16119; Tue, 6 Feb 96 10:52:12 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA02146; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:52:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:52:03 -0500 Message-Id: <542E7C19BD@edu-suu-lifac.li.suu.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S Journal Index X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:52:03 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S Journal Index X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I have just received a copy of (our very own) Geoff Dixon's new publication, The Gilbert and Sullivan Journal 56-Year Index. This 149-page book is impressive in its completeness, detail, and organization. It identifies and indexes the contents of every issue of the official organ of the Gilbert and Sullivan Society from its first appearance in 1925 through its demise in 1981. In addition, for those of us who don't have the complete run of the G&S Journal, it identifies locations (Great Britain, Canada, U.S.) of libraries and other entities which have holdings of this Journal. It even names several individuals in the U.S. who privately own the complete run....and now those folks can expect some of us poor SavoyNuts to visit them (evil chuckle). Dixon's Index is a book that should be in the reference section of any library with holdings in theater and music. It is also an appropriate book to provide the first important steps for the researcher to get at the literature of the field. Remember, you can get access to the articles in the G&S Journal through Inter-Library Loan (librarians are such wonderful people). (The book would also be great for helping folks cheat on PESTS quizzes, but that is another story.) Geoff's book can be obtained from: Rhosearn Press 93, Carcluie Crescent Ayr, Scotland KA7 4SZ Geoff's email address: dixon@cix.compulink.co.uk Other works by Dixon include several impressive projects: The Gilbert and Sullivan Concordance (2 vols.) The Gilbert and Sulllivan Photofinder The Index to the Sir Arthur Sullivan Society Magazine The G&S Journal Index 56-Year Index is a valuable resource which deserves wide distribution. And Geoff Dixon deserves our compliments for his efforts. Phil dillard@suu.edu  1,, Summary-line: 8-Feb DglsWhaley@aol.com #HIS EXCELLENCY---ORCHESTRA? Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27350; Thu, 8 Feb 96 15:53:03 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19985; Thu, 8 Feb 96 15:52:38 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA24369; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:51:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:51:32 -0500 Message-Id: <960208154943_417825811@emout10.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY---ORCHESTRA? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:51:32 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: HIS EXCELLENCY---ORCHESTRA? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In a private post to me, Bruce Miller suggests that we try and find some group to undertake to record "His Excellency" with full orchestra. With his permission I reprint some of his remarks for your consideration: "I believe this is an emminently 'doable' project, especially as there appear to be a number of well established organizations which are getting weary of presenting the same operas over and over. This is why we are seeing such interest in the marginal G & S works such as Utopia and Grand Duke, in my opinion. "It would not necessarily have to be staged, and this would cut out completely such costs as costumes, sets, technical theater resources, etc. etc. It could be accomplished as a work in project at the annual festival, setting aside a day or two to make the recording. People would have to do much preparation on their home sites well in advance. If this is done it is realistic to put the necessary forces together at the festival as I have suggested. "I believe first things need to be dealt with first. A performing text of the dialogue needs to be established, along with a philosophy as to how it will be presented. Cuts ought not to be made unless this is the form in which most of the actual performances were done. "Some research obviously will need to be done in that direction. "Secondly: someone very soon ought to establish whether the full score of the music has survived. It obviously would *not* have been in the D'Oyly Carte archives, so the next places to check would be the Gilbert estate and how it was disbursed, as well as the Carr family from a similar perspective. It may or may not repose with a publisher or a British (or otherwise) museum or library. If it can't be found, then a recording with orchestration becomes very problematic, if not impossible." It would be wonderful if there were a group willing to tackle this project. If anyone is interested, please let me know. In the meantime, does anyone have any idea how we could find the orchestrations? Would someone in the U.K. volunteer to make a few phone calls and see what can be found? Douglas Whaley Columbus, Ohio (614)846-5911 email: "Nothing is more annoying than to feel you're not equal to the intellectual pressure of the conversation."  1,, Summary-line: 12-Feb Ronald Orenstein #Fwd: Gilbert and Sullivan Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17878; Mon, 12 Feb 96 23:44:17 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18365; Mon, 12 Feb 96 23:43:51 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA26971; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 23:44:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 23:44:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199602130440.XAA26582@malone.inforamp.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ornstn@inforamp.net (Ronald Orenstein) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fwd: Gilbert and Sullivan X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 23:44:04 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ornstn@inforamp.net (Ronald Orenstein) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fwd: Gilbert and Sullivan X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Savoynetters may enjoy the following. Susan is a teacher in Scarborough, east of Toronto. For those of you not familiar with Ontario politics, the object of this ditty is John Snobelen, Minister of Education under the new, extreme-conservative government of Premier Mike Harris (the so-called "common-sense revolution) which has been slashing away at government spending at a rate that even has the banks alarmed. Mr. Snobelen, in keeping with this view (he has no background in education, as the song says) has announced that students should be considered as "clients" and schools run like businesses, which involves cutting unspecified "frills" which are rumoured to include language programs, preparation time for teachers etc. Some of his cabinet colleagues are straight out of the Bab Ballads - including, for example, our transport minister, Al Palladini, a car dealer who has suggested eliminating emergency road service on the grounds that "everyone has a cell phone in their car anyway". Well, whatever your politics, here it is: >Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 18:22:34 -0500 >From: Susan_Dykstra@sbe.scarborough.on.ca (Susan Dykstra) >Organization: Scarborough Board of Education >Subject: Fwd: Gilbert and Sullivan >To: ornstn@inforamp.net >Priority: normal > >Dear Ronald, > >As promised, with profound apologies to G & S, my version of: > > > >WHEN I WAS A LAD to the tune of the same name by Gilbert and Sullivan > >When I was a lad I quit high school >To work cleaning stables for a jockey pool >I cleaned the stables and scrubbed the walls >And I shovelled up manure of the horse's stalls. >(He shovelled up manure of the horse's stalls!) > I shovelled that manure so carefully > That now I run the Education Ministry. > ( He shovelled that manure so carefully > That now he runs the Education Ministry!!) > >As stable boy I soon was sent >To run my family's business in waste management. >I tanked up sewage and I cleaned up guck >And I packaged all the garbage into garbage trucks. >(He packaged all the garbage into garbage trucks!) > I packaged all the garbage so carefully > That now I run the Education Ministry. > (He packaged all the garbage so carefully > That now he runs the Education Ministry!!) > >As president, I acquired such a grip >That my wife joined me in a partnership. >Our ledger books I took to bed >Those books are the only ones I've ever read. >(Those books are the only ones he's ever read!) > I avoided paying taxes so carefully > That now I run the Education Ministry. > (He avoided paying taxes so carefully > That now I run the Education Ministry!!) > >I grew so rich that I was sent >With the Harris Revolution into parliament >I always followed my party's call >And I never thought of thinking for myself at all. >(He never thought of thinking for himself at all!) > I thought so little, they rewarded me > And now I run the Education Ministry. > (He thought so little, they rewarded he > And now he runs the Education Ministry!!) > >Now, dropouts all, whoever you may be >If you want to rise to the top of the tree, >Stay out of videos; stay out of school >Be careful to be guided by this golden rule. >(Be careful to be guided by this golden rule!) > Avoid math and science and geography > And you'll all run the Education Ministry. > (Avoid math and science and geography > And you'll all run the Education Ministry!!) > > > >-- > >----------------------- >>>> sent via ScriBE >>> >Scarborough Board of Education >Ontario, CANADA > > -- Ronald I. Orenstein Phone: (905) 820-7886 (home) International Wildlife Coalition Fax/Modem: (905) 569-0116 (home) Home: 1825 Shady Creek Court Messages: (416) 368-4661 Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5L 3W2 Internet: ornstn@inforamp.net Office: 130 Adelaide Street W., Suite 1940 Toronto, Ontario Canada M5H 3P5  1,, Summary-line: 14-Feb coles_cc@ruoaxp.wlf.state #Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---VOCAL SCORE Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08215; Wed, 14 Feb 96 08:59:26 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25912; Wed, 14 Feb 96 08:58:57 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA12297; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:59:06 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:59:06 -0500 Message-Id: <96021407594841@ruoaxp.wlf.state.la.us> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: coles_cc@ruoaxp.wlf.state.la.us To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---VOCAL SCORE X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:59:06 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: coles_cc@ruoaxp.wlf.state.la.us To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---VOCAL SCORE X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The vocal score to His Excellency can be found in the micro-forms collection British [or English, I can't remember] Drama of the Nineteenth Century, listed under WS Gilbert. As I have mentioned before, the collection is not widely available, but some institutions do lend. Make sure you get the microfishe and not the micro-opaque cards. I think there's only one place in the country (US) that can make copies from micro-opaque cards, and they don't come out very well. It is much easier to find a microfishe reader and copier, and the copies come out okay. I suggest anyone interested in 19th Century Drama avail themselves of this collection. It was an attempt (aborted now, I think) to collect every play printed or performed in GB in the 19th century. The cards take up a lot of shelf space, and the fishe fills many a drawer. It has its limitations (not all of WSG's plays are there, for example), but the editors didn't shun comic opera and their vocal scores. As I have mentioned before, The Chieftain, The Beauty Stone, The Rose of Persia can all be found here, as well as an early version (American) of the libretto of The Mountebanks. A companion collection, American Drama of the 19th Century, is also available. It takes up less space. Clifton Coles . . .  1,, Summary-line: 14-Feb lgarvin@lawsun.law.fsu.ed #Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---VOCAL SCORE Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08573; Wed, 14 Feb 96 14:15:04 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12389; Wed, 14 Feb 96 14:14:34 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA16789; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:14:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:14:31 -0500 Message-Id: <51140.lgarvin@law.fsu.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: lgarvin@lawsun.law.fsu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---VOCAL SCORE X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:14:31 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: lgarvin@lawsun.law.fsu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: HIS EXCELLENCY---VOCAL SCORE X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In Message Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:59:08 -0500, coles_cc@ruoaxp.wlf.state.la.us writes: >The vocal score to His Excellency can be found in the micro-forms collection >British [or English, I can't remember] Drama of the Nineteenth Century, listed >under WS Gilbert. As I have mentioned before, the collection is not widely >available, but some institutions do lend. Make sure you get the microfishe >and not the micro-opaque cards. I think there's only one place in the country >(US) that can make copies from micro-opaque cards, and they don't come out very >well. As it happens, I teach at (the?) one place in the country with a micro-opaque card copier. The copies are adequate, but scarcely up to the level of modern photocopying or microfiche copying. What's more, the machine catches on fire if one makes more than about fifty copies; it has to rest for an hour. (I learned this the hard way while making copies for Prof. Dr. MacPhail.) Also, the machine is no longer made in the U.S.; for parts, they have to order from Germany. Aargh. So, if no other source comes forward, I am willing to dive into the library, fire extinguisher in hand, to copy off whatever G and/or S material is otherwise inaccessible. Toodle-pip. Larry Garvin (lgarvin@law.fsu.edu) Florida State University College of Law "Whether you're an honest man or whether you're a thief Depends on whose solicitor has given me my brief!" --W.S. Gilbert  1,, Summary-line: 21-Feb Sternenberg, Philip #Re: G&S and Warner Brothers Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08370; Wed, 21 Feb 96 12:42:49 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00171; Wed, 21 Feb 96 12:42:12 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA20890; Wed, 21 Feb 1996 12:42:26 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 12:42:26 -0500 Message-Id: <312B835D@ms-mail-gate.hac.vlt.eds.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: G&S and Warner Brothers X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 12:42:26 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: G&S and Warner Brothers X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 >Perhaps in the older (1930s-1960s?) WB stuff, but the newer (late '80s >onwards) has several references. I'm thinking of the many many many >references to G&S in *Animaniacs* -- the Warner siblings perform "Three >Little Maids from School" for a Jerry Lewis audition, there's an entire >cartoon that's a take-off on *Pirates*, and so on. > >Josh Simon Yes, I quite forgot about that. Someone lent me a tape of HMS YAKKO, so I know what you mean. I was indeed thinking only of the theatrical shorts. A bit of a digression while I'm on WB music -- Carl Stalling is the man who put most of it together, and his favorite composer must have been Raymond Scott. About a year ago a CD called THE RAYMOND SCOTT PROJECT appeared. It includes live recordings of the Raymond Scott Quintet (perversely named, since it was a sextet) that were contemporary with classic WB. (Scott himself was perversely named; born Harry Warnow, he took his new name from a phone book.) Anyone as addicted to the WB shorts as I was should get the CD to hear some nonclassical "cartoon music" in its raw form. The most famous original melody (I'm not counting an adaptation of Mozart's C major piano sonata) is the second theme of "Powerhouse," the one that starts C E D# G F# D D# E in the key of C and repeats this phrase, all on notes of equal length, C lowest and G highest. (Just hum or play these pitches two or three times in succession within one octave, and if you've watched enough classic WB you'll know EXACTLY what melody I mean!). MERRIE MELODIES of the Thirties existed largely to promote music from WB feature films. There really was a difference between them and LOONEY TUNES, which introduced regular characters like Porky and Daffy and were scored more like the ones we remember best. The latter were also in black and white. It wasn't until the Forties that the two series became indistinguishable. Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@hkvltpo1.hkvlt001.hac.vlt.eds.com  1,, Summary-line: 24-Feb Marc Shepherd #Re: G&S reference material Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00466; Sat, 24 Feb 96 16:33:58 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11614; Sat, 24 Feb 96 16:33:24 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA25753; Sat, 24 Feb 1996 16:33:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 16:33:43 -0500 Message-Id: <312F567B.5C71@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: G&S reference material X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 16:33:43 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: G&S reference material X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) Jim Parhamovich wrote: > > I would greatly appreciate it if the learned members of the Savoynet could > recommend one or two good references for Gilbert & Sullivan. I have "The > Complete Plays of Gilbert and Sullivan" published by Norton. My ex got > Martyn Green's book, which was annotated to explain many of the references. > > It would also be nice if this book would be readily available in major > bookstores.. I ask this so that I perhaps can participate in many of > the discussion and understand several of the references made in many of > the discussions. There have been literally hundreds of books about G&S written over the years, only a fraction of which (and not necessarily even the BEST ones) are available new in bookstores at any given time. The only G&S book that I can seriously recommend that is still available in some stores is "Arthur Sullivan: A Victorian Musician," the definitive biography of the composer by Arthur Jacobs. A biography of Gilbert by Jane W. Stedman published by Oxford University Press is due out in the next few months and is likely also to be accorded "definitive" status. The other books that I'm about to recommend are out of print, but if you look hard enough, you WILL find them eventually. 1. THE GILBERT AND SULLIVAN BOOK, by Leslie Bailey. Although it contains some errors, it remains by default the definitive history of the G&S *partnership*. It went through something like four editions in the 1960s, so used copies are fairly easy to come by. Christopher Hibbert's GILBERT AND SULLIVAN AND THEIR VICTORIAN WORLD is a reasonable second choice in this category. 2. THE BAB BALLADS, by W. S. Gilbert. There have been bazillions of editions of the Babs over the years. The best is the one edited by James A. Ellis, because it contains ALL of them. However, any edition will do. 3. THE FIRST NIGHT GILBERT AND SULLIVAN, edited by Reginald Allen. Contains the complete libretti of the G&S operas as they were presented on their first nights (often considerably different from the way we know them today), with detailed accounts of the original productions. This book went through two major editions (195-somthing and 1975), but neither of these is a particularly easy find. But, the search is worth it. 4. THE GILBERT AND SULLIVAN LEXICON, by Harry Benford. Complete coverage of all the obscure words and references that Gilbert uses. Other books have covered this territory somewhat (e.g. Green), but none so well as this. ASIMOV'S ANNOTATED GILBERT AND SULLIVAN is a possible substitute, and possibly easier to find, but is nowhere near as good. Of course, there are many others, but I'll leave you with these. I know of two dealers who specialized in used G&S books: Wilfrid M. de Freitas 369 Kitchener Avenue Montreal, Canada H3Z 2G1 Tel: (514) 935-9581 Fax: (514) 931-8999 and C. D. Paramor 25 St. Mary's Square Newmarket, Suffolk CB8 0HZ England Tel/Fax: 01638 664416 I have used both over the years and can attest that they are legitimate. However, because they KNOW what they are selling, you won't get any steals from them. Good luck. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: shepherd@schubert.sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Summary-line: 28-Feb KenKrantz@aol.com #Corcoran in Utopia and Pinafore Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA11041; Wed, 28 Feb 96 08:45:02 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27591; Wed, 28 Feb 96 08:45:00 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA06825; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:44:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:44:29 -0500 Message-Id: <960227204823_433265617@emout05.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: KenKrantz@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Corcoran in Utopia and Pinafore X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:44:29 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: KenKrantz@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Corcoran in Utopia and Pinafore X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 --PART.BOUNDARY.0.17898.emout05.mail.aol.com.825472103 Content-ID: <0_17898_825472103@emout05.mail.aol.com.305200> Content-type: text/plain --PART.BOUNDARY.0.17898.emout05.mail.aol.com.825472103 Content-ID: <0_17898_825472103@emout05.mail.aol.com.305201> Content-type: text/plain; name="CORC" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The debate over the identity of UTOPIA's Captain Sir Edward Corcoran is a hardy perennial in G&S circles. After years of arguing it off and on with fellow enthusiasts I have my own theory. I am less interested in proving that mine is "right" than in adding to the supply of theories in the marketplace of ideas. = It may well be that the "right" answer (in the sense of being what the author had in mind) is what Ronald Orenstein said recently: Gilbert simply wanted to work the "hardly ever" bit for the predictable audience reaction. Gilbert may not have given it any more thought than that. But we, who have modern communications technology at our disposal and too much time on our hands, are free to give it all the additional thought we want. The two most common theories, both advanced on Savoynet in recent days, are: (1) Sir Edward is the Captain from PINAFORE. This is the most immediately intuitive theory, and was obviously adopted by the author of the "Who married his nurse and what was his first name" trivia question that started this discussion on the 'net last week. Fraser Charlton (whose Mutiny on the Pinafore sounds very intriguing) ably summarized most of the arguments for this theory. (2) Sir Edward is Ralph from PINAFORE. This theory, well supported by Jim Parhamovich and others, is based on the end of PINAFORE when Ralph and the Captain change identities. If the logic of the baby-swapping plot gimmick is followed through, Ralph is not only the captain of the ship, he is a scion of, and now restored to, the Corcoran family. Thus, he is a captain, he's now a Corcoran, so why shouldn't he be the officer we see in UTOPIA? [Note: I am aware that Ralph gives the command "Corcoran, three paces to the front, march," to the former Captain but do not believe this is an insuperable objection to theory (2). It is not surprising that each man would take some time to adjust to having a new identity and a different name than the one he had always known. There will probably be weeks of work by the Admiralty staff and the Corcoran family solicitors to sort this whole mess out, so it is hardly surprising that Ralph would forget, in the first startling moments after the discovery, that his name was now Corcoran and the former Captain's name was now Rackstraw.] Both of the above theories have their drawbacks, which Savoynetters have mentioned in the last few days. Theory (1) must account for how the former Captain rose from the lower deck to become a Captain again, while theory (2) must account for Ralph becoming a baritone or bass by the time of UTOPIA (the suggestion that his voice deepened with age is ingenious but not, I think, necessary to explain the UTOPIA Corcoran). As between the two theories, I prefer (2) as far as it goes. I accept that everyone in the show buys Buttercup's story and acts accordingly [which is not to say that I buy it myself. Part of the topsy-turvy humor of the show is that Buttercup tells a story which is both implausible and self-serving, and for which she does not offer a shred of evidence, and EVERYBODY ON STAGE BELIEVES IT!] If the "regular patrician" family were the Corcorans then the man we have known as Ralph Rackstraw is really named Corcoran and vice versa. To avoid confusion I will speak of the two PINAFORE characters from here on as the Tenor and the Baritone rather than as Ralph and Captain Corcoran. Gilbert loved the lozenge plot and, though Sullivan wouldn't accept it in its literal magic pill or potion form, Gilbert frequently had characters changing identities or even personalities through some sort of plot device. For a few among many examples see Grosvenor at the end of PATIENCE or Robin and Despard (and, in the original version, Adam/Gideon Crawle) in RUDDIGORE. = Theory (2) is, IMHO correct that the Tenor from PINAFORE lives out his life and naval career under the name Captain Corcoran (which means, incidentally, that Josephine will not have to discard any monogrammed Venetian finger glasses or luxurious sofa pillows after they are married, since her name and initials will remain what they were). Where both theories go wrong (again IMHO) is in the assumption that the events of both PINAFORE and UTOPIA take place in the course of that one man's career. I come to a different conclusion from either theory in part because I challenge their unstated assumption that the UTOPIA character has to be one or the other of the two PINAFORE characters. From its opening chorus PINAFORE resounds with the Nelsonian elan of the early 19th century Royal Navy. This is a wooden sailing ship, but not a museum piece, nor a cadet training vessel like the Tall Ships of modern navies. It is from all appearances a proud fighting ship. It is, in short, a ship of a type that had been obsolete for decades when it was immortalized on stage in 1878. Rather than contrive strained explanations of how a ship like the PINAFORE could still be operational in the 1870's why not take the simplest explanation--that PINAFORE (like GONDOLIERS, like YEOMEN, like GRAND DUKE) is set in an earlier period than the late Victorian era in which it was written? Everyone focusses (with good reason--it's one of the all time great in jokes) on the "what, never; hardly ever" bit that ends Sir Edward's solo in UTOPIA. But take a look at the rest of that solo. It is tinged with nostalgia for the days before wood and wind were replaced with iron and steam. Gilbert, the yachtsman and son of a naval surgeon, is contrasting the soot-covered, rust- stained maritime technology of his era with the billowing sails and creaking masts of the recently-departed era "when Britain really ruled the waves." [And please don't feel you have to write and explain to me that the reality behind all that naval glory was harsh and brutal. I have read both the history of the era and the Hornblower and Aubrey/Maturin novels. I am speaking of the comic opera version of the Age of Sail, not the cruel reality.] Viewed in this light, the steam navy takes its place alongside limited liability companies among the institutions of modern British life at which Gilbert aims his satire. If you accept that PINAFORE is set in the era of wooden ships and iron men while UTOPIA takes place more or less when it was written, my solution to the original question suggests itself: Sir Edward in UTOPIA is the son of Josephine and the Tenor from PINAFORE. This makes him the grandson of the PINAFORE Baritone. The "what never" business may have been a family joke, or just a phrase habitually used about the house and lodged in his memory to emerge (consciously or not) when he is introducing himself to the people of Utopia. This is my theory, which I believe is plausibly based in the texts of the two shows and the naval history of the 19th century. = There is one other ground on which it could be either supported or contradicted, but for which I lack the necessary specialized knowledge, and that is genetics. We know from GONDOLIERS that an alto and a baritone can have a soprano daughter and from both SORCERER and MIKADO that a bass can have a tenor son. In PRINCESS IDA the two kings, both baritones, have between them a dramatic soprano daughter and four sons who cover most of the male vocal spectrum. Other examples could be cited, but I don't know of an example of a tenor and a soprano having a son who is a baritone. = Perhaps some Savoynetters with training in the biological sciences can advise us whether the gene for high voices has been isolated, whether it is dominant or recessive, and whether there are any cross-breeding studies in the literature that address the question. = My personal experience does not, I fear, add any new data as I am a baritone and my wife an alto. Our daughters, (aged 9 and 2) each show some promise as sopranos, so we merely replicate the example of the Plaza-Toro family. I'm sorry this is so long, but I didn't have time to make it shorter. Kenneth A. Krantz (KenKrantz@aol.com) =1A= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.17898.emout05.mail.aol.com.825472103--  1,, Summary-line: 1-Mar KenKrantz@aol.com #Pinafore costuming Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21939; Fri, 1 Mar 96 00:50:20 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28253; Fri, 1 Mar 96 00:50:20 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id AAA26710; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:50:23 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:50:23 -0500 Message-Id: <960301004619_435275669@mail06.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: KenKrantz@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Pinafore costuming X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:50:23 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: KenKrantz@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Pinafore costuming X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 --PART.BOUNDARY.0.9277.mail06.mail.aol.com.825659179 Content-ID: <0_9277_825659179@mail06.mail.aol.com.32288> Content-type: text/plain --PART.BOUNDARY.0.9277.mail06.mail.aol.com.825659179 Content-ID: <0_9277_825659179@mail06.mail.aol.com.32289> Content-type: text/plain; name="COSTUME" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Henry A. Stephens wrote = >The ship is very King George III era, but the officers and crew >uniforms are Queen Victoria era. Those sailors should be stoking >furnaces, not hauling on mainyards. Were I casting PINAFORE, >there would be no question. The captain and admiral would both >wear white breeches and stockings -- no black pants -- and wear >their cocked hats sideways as in Nelson's day. I would go by >historic records, not theater convention. =0D Pictures of Grossmith costumed as Sir Joseph show him in white knee breeches and stockings. Most of the Sir J's I have seen have done the same. I have seen Corcoran in knee breeches, but I have more commonly seen him in long black pants. There is a collateral aspect of the issue of Corcoran's costume, having nothing to do with historical research. The costume switch with Ralph at the end is easier and faster if both are wearing approximately identical pants. Corcoran exits before the Octet and has leisure to get out of his costume. If there is a separate seaman's uniform for him he can be fully changed long before his return, and even have time left over for a brief dalliance with Celerity. Once I played opposite a Ralph close to my size and the company economized on costumes, so I could not put the jumper on until he had exited and taken it off. Corcoran's change can be either fast or slow depending on whether there is a separate sailor suit for him, but Ralph's is always more rushed because of his later exit. Having them both in black trousers means they need only change from the waist up. If Corcoran (and in the finale, Ralph) wear knee breeches it is a good idea for Ralph to have the tights on under his original costume before his entrance in Act II, so that, after doffing his original costume, he can pull the breeches on immediately. Incidentally, the reference to Sir Joseph as "the admiral" is understandable, given the way he is traditionally costumed, but it is not correct. He is a politician rather than a naval officer (and, of course, the whole point of his song is how far he is from being a naval officer). As a Cabinet minister, he is the counterpart of the Secretary of the Navy in the United States. The military head of the R.N., counterpart to America's Chief of Naval Operations, is the First Sea Lord, who is an admiral. = Sir Joseph is traditionally costumed in a mock-Naval style, but his ensemble usually features gold embroidery on the chest rather than the epaulets or sleeve stripes indicating naval rank. I have always assumed that this rig is something he affects when visiting fleet units. Even Sir Joseph would probably find that getup too outlandish to wear at his office in London or on the floor of the Commons. =0D >Has anyone ever wondered about this also: Why is the captain the >only officer aboard PINAFORE? We hear of no lieutenants. Could >be that, as they're in port, the junior officers are ashore >requisitioning stores or something. But it would be nice for >us salts to hear a mention. =0D I have often (frequently) wondered about this and can think of no explanation other than dramatic compression. The host of commissioned and warrant officers appropriate to the ship might frequently be ashore on errands, but probably not all at once, and certainly not on the day the First Lord was scheduled to visit. = The plot centers around Ralph and Sir J both courting the Captain's daughter. There you have three male characters. The other men onstage have to interact with Ralph as his social equals in order to serve as confidant (Boatswain, Carpenter, and chorus) or antagonist (Deadeye) to his plan. Thus the chorus and supporting characters are ratings rather than officers. Junior officers weren't necessary to the plot, and the cast was big enough with those who were, so they were left out (other than the midshipman who has no lines). Officers might be included in the opening chorus, but in all the male choruses from then until near the end of Act II they would be inappropriate. The Pinafore's quarterdeck, like Shakespeare's field of Agincourt, is less populous in the theatre than it would be in real life. = =1A= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.9277.mail06.mail.aol.com.825659179--  1,, Summary-line: 19-Mar Ronald Orenstein #Re: Ever scena worse rhyme? Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26276; Tue, 19 Mar 96 13:28:36 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23485; Tue, 19 Mar 96 13:28:17 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA00744; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:28:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:28:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199603191826.NAA21817@malone.inforamp.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ornstn@inforamp.net (Ronald Orenstein) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Ever scena worse rhyme? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:28:58 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ornstn@inforamp.net (Ronald Orenstein) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Ever scena worse rhyme? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 >Much of the wit >of G&S do not revolved around brilliant plot twists (ala Offenbach) but >rather out of the language. Although I agree with the main point of this post, I must protest about Offenbach. His operettas - particularly the great "offenbachiades" written with Henri Meilhac and Ludovic Halevy - contain a great deal of language-based humour. Much of it is based on the sound of the language. Offenbach loved to emphasize awkward-sounding syllables for comic effect - a kind of humour Sullivan didn't go in for much. For example, take Menelaus' entrance in "La Belle Helene": Je suis l'epoux de la reine - - poux de la reine - - poux de la reine - Le roi Menelas! Offenbach's tune emphasizes the repeated "poux" sounds in a way that make the verse much funnier in French than in any translation I have heard. There are lots of similar examples: "J'entend le son des bottes, des bottes, des bottes, des bottes, des bottes" in Les Brigands, or "Je suis Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-Barbe-Bleue" from Barbe-Bleue (of course). Or consider La Perichole's famous "drunken" song "Ah, quel diner" - the delicious slides on the sound "ee" in the refrain (Je suis un peu grise, un peu grise, mais chut!) really help point up her tipsy condition. In the translation used by the Metropolitan Opera this joke was completely lost, though the translation is excellent (I might be a little tight, a little tight, but Oh!). When I translated the show for Comic Opera Guild I tried to retain the sound (I'm reeling, I'm reeling, I'm feeling no pain), perhaps at the expense of the precise meaning of the words. Meilhac and Halevy were certainly not averse to puns, as anyone who has tried translating one of their shows will quickly discover (not to mention absolutely untranslatable word-jokes like the "locomotive" charade in La Belle Helene). I am rather proud of the fact that I was actually able to preserve at least the sense of one of these for COG, in the second (originally third)-act finale of La Vie Parisienne. I can't remember the French precisely, but the pun involved Gabrielle the glover asking why one can only see "la vie en rose" when one is "gris" - which also means grey, so the line literally means, why does life only look rosy when you are grey (drunk)?" That pun doesn't translate, but the music let me do this instead: I have tried, but it's really no use - I simply can't seem to get this right - Tell me why you can never feel loose Unless you are absolutely tight? Which, I trust, is the same joke. -- Ronald I. Orenstein Phone: (905) 820-7886 (home) International Wildlife Coalition Fax/Modem: (905) 569-0116 (home) Home: 1825 Shady Creek Court Messages: (416) 368-4661 Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5L 3W2 Internet: ornstn@inforamp.net Office: 130 Adelaide Street W., Suite 1940 Toronto, Ontario Canada M5H 3P5  1,, Summary-line: 27-Mar Mary A. Finn #a little old list Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29379; Wed, 27 Mar 96 10:00:17 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20656; Wed, 27 Mar 96 10:00:15 EST Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA20122; Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:43:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:43:31 -0500 Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mary@dimins.com (Mary A. Finn) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: a little old list X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:43:31 -0500 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mary@dimins.com (Mary A. Finn) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: a little old list X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Well, one person clamored for this. I'm working from memory here, folks. This was written in 1990 or so. If someday it should happen (yada yada you know how it goes) There's the over-zealous traffic cop who hasn't got a heart All grocery shoppers with too many items in their cart All people who are fond of saying "Nuke it 'til it glows." All children wearing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle clothes And the folks that make those bottle caps that no one can untwist I don't think they'd be missed, etc. There's the New Kids On The Block, and all Madonna-wannabes And the cocktail pianist, I've got him on the list All people who rewrite the words to famous melodies They never would be missed. They never would be missed (sorry if this is wrong) And the people who see Elvis at the local greasy spoon The Energizer Bunny, Vanna White, Vidal Sassoon And the lady from Los Angeles who dresses just like Cher The man who thimks Minoxydil will resurrect his hair And that singular anomaly, the lip-synch soloist I don't think he'd be missed, etc. There's the iron-punping nuisance who just now is rather rife The macho masochist, I've got him on the list All people who write exposes of someone's private life They never would be missed. They never would be missed. And those tax-increasing statesmen with convenient memory slips Such as whachamallit, thing'mabob, and good old "Read My Lips" And Ts-ts-ts and whatshisname and. . . (Finish as per Gilbert) There it is. Terribly dated and rather U.S.-centric, but I hope you like it in a nostalgic sort of way. As an added bonus, I here append the lyric I re-wrote (STRICTLY for the amusement of the cast, mind!) when I was costume designing a production of PINAFORE for MITG&SP: For he is an English muffin! For he might have been a breadstick Or pancakes made from Bisquik Or even Stove-Top Stuffin' But in spite of all entreaties To become a bowl of Wheaties He remains an English muffin! Yes, he is an E-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-english muffin! Complex carbohydrates were very big at the time, I recall. Enough foolishness! ************************************************************** Mary A. Finn Dimensional Insight phone: (617)229-9111 111 South Bedford Street fax: (617)228-9113 Burlington, MA 01803 email: mary@dimins.com **************************************************************  1,, Summary-line: 8-Apr David A. Smith #Re: Announcing MITG&SP's long awaited UTOPIA LTD.!!!! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18276; Mon, 8 Apr 96 17:01:56 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15853; Mon, 8 Apr 96 17:01:19 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA02871; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 17:01:46 -0400 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 17:01:46 -0400 Message-Id: <9604082050.AA17069@math.duke.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: das@math.duke.edu (David A. Smith) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Announcing MITG&SP's long awaited UTOPIA LTD.!!!! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 17:01:46 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: das@math.duke.edu (David A. Smith) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Announcing MITG&SP's long awaited UTOPIA LTD.!!!! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Thanks for this speedy reply. Most of the story sounds very familiar for community theater. The big item I left out of my sample budget is theater rental -- that alone could account for the difference in ticket prices. Even when we performed on campus (many years!) the theater (a real one) was not free. The Carolina is a much nicer theater, but smaller and more expensive. Our orchestra budget is in the $2500-3000 range, and many of the players consider themselves "members" and donate their fees back to the group. But we do have to pay them union scale. It's a pickup orchestra with some of the best players in the area -- and a lot of continuity from year to year. We're not quite limited to flats-only set design, but our designs have to be very clever for amateur construction, flexibility for changing scenes (as, e.g., Venice to Barataria in Gondoliers), and portability (to/from warehouse and our road productions in Wilmington). We share warehouse space with other community theater groups, and there is some trading of costumes -- also occasional rentals, as e.g., beefeater uniforms for last year's Yeomen. Almost all of our income is from ticket sales, but we have some modest benefactors and an occasional grant. We each get only one comp (in Durham, none in Wilmington), but the purpose is the same. And we know a lot about squeezing stones. Thanks again for sharing your experience. David At 03:57 PM 4/8/96 -0400, David C. Jedlinsky wrote: >--text follows this line-- > >das@math.duke.edu (David A. Smith) wrote: >>Question for cupid (just out of curiosity): How do you do a fully staged >>production for those prices? Our group is community-based, not affiliated >>with Duke University -- is the answer in university subsidy? Our budget >>covers a 25-piece orchestra, set and costume construction, modest honoraria >>for artistic and musical directors and a few other key people, not much >>else. It has been some years since I have been on the Board, so I don't >>have details at hand. But I know $10 tickets are history here. > >The phrase, "squeezing blood from a stone", probably applies. The MIT >G&S Players rely on a *tremendous* amount of volunteer work. Our >performing space (note I didn't say "theatre") is at MIT, and we do >not have to rent it, as we are a student-run organization. As far as >I know, we do not receive any monetary grants from the institute. > >What money we do spend on a production comes almost entirely from >ticket receipts. This accounts for our enthusiasm in inviting anyone >and everyone to come see our show. :-) > >With minor exceptions (i.e. last minute hire of a musician on the day >of a performance), none of the actors, directors or musicians are >paid. Cambridge isn't (yet) a union town, so we are not required to >hire an orchestra. Many of the musicians are students in the area. >The only compensation one receives for the effort is the joy of >performing (not to be underestimated), and two complimentary tickets, >to be given to friends (who are expected to congratulate us after the >performance). > >Costumes are scrounged, borrowed, or made by members of the cast. >There are several other performing groups at MIT, and we have a >thriving trade with them for costumes. Our green room is currently >strewn with random fabric parts from old costumes, being re-cut and >re-sewn for the current production. > >The set is mostly made up of cotton muslin stretched on wooden frames >(flats), and plywood platforms. We rely on the artistic ability of >the cast members to create an illusion that the performance is taking >place somewhere other than a ballroom. Props are borrowed or donated. >It's amazing that colonial-style wooden kitchen chairs can be >converted into something reasonably victorian-looking with some foam >cushions and fabric. Duct tape and hot glue is a cheap, but >effective, inspiration. > >Somehow, it all comes together in a performance that we are proud to >be a part of. And that's what counts, after all. > >-Dave Jedlinsky >opus@mit.edu >Mr. Goldbury, Utopia (Limited) > > >  1,, Summary-line: 10-Apr John Austen #Leta's Conundrum Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15741; Wed, 10 Apr 96 07:34:18 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02034; Wed, 10 Apr 96 07:34:17 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id HAA24572; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 07:35:14 -0400 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 07:35:14 -0400 Message-Id: <316ABEFB@emh.dfsc.dla.mil> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: John Austen To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Leta's Conundrum X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 07:35:14 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: John Austen To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Leta's Conundrum X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Leta noted the existence of three G&S producing companies in the DC area and wondered how one could spend so little and another so much (compared to the one with which she is associated, in the middle). Having worked in various capacities with each of the three (as well as several other groups) I may be able to shed some light on the subject. The "low budget" group is the Georgetown Law School Gilbert & Sullivan Society (GG&SS). I once played the Foreman of the Jury with them, and helped, along with the rest of the cast, on the set. It is low budget because they don't pay for much of anything. The stage is in the Moot Court room, provided by the school. The sets are minimal, and are largely re-used (and stored in the garage under the school). The costumes (in this production anyway) were mostly our own street clothes. We performed with an eighty-eight piece orchestra, counting both the black and white keys. The performers were not paid; I believe the directors received a modest honorarium. The sound and light equipment was mostly provided by the school, or already owned from previous productions. Rehearsals are at the school. In summation: a modest production almost entirely by volunteers, using free facilities and minimal materials. The "mid-range" group is the Victorian Lyric Opera Company (VLOC), a community theater. I have performed with them in several productions, last as Dick Deadeye a few years ago (also in minor roles, understudy, and chorus). I have also built sets for them, bought scores for them, served as house manager, etc. The stage is in the Community Center, where the group is now, at long last, numbered among the resident companies, thus having access to the space at a reasonable rate as well as having a better chance to select favorable performance dates. Unlike the case with GG&SS, this is a real theater; but it is not free. The sets are rather well done (if I may say so myself, as Master Carpenter from time to time). They are good community theater sets. They are built (usually) in a facility on the grounds of the Community Center, by a semi-volunteer master carpenter (paid perhaps a couple hundred dollars for a couple hundred hours work), assisted by volunteers, mostly from the cast. The "shop" has no tools; the builders use their own (and each other's) hand tools. Much of the set material is re-used, stored between shows in a barn made available by a benefactor. So a typical set construction budget covers the couple hundred for the master carpenter; a hundred or so to rent a truck for two different days; and a few hundred for some additional wood, paint, couple of drill bits or saw blades maybe, etc. The directors a paid a few hundred each; some of the designers maybe a couple hundred each. The orchestra (couple dozen pieces) was volunteer for a while, but lately has been paid a little. The performers are not paid. They may rent additional lighting instruments, and/or bring in some pyrotechnic special effects, depending on the production. (I donated some almost outdated flash and smoke powder.) The costumes are mostly done within the group. They are stored at a member's house and are thus available for re-use. Some were donated from the Washington Savoyards. So the costume budget is relatively low: mostly re-use; otherwise, material only, with volunteer construction; rare rentals. Rehearsals are usually in a church basement, at a modest rental fee. In summation: VLOC pays for a lot of things that GG&SS gets for free, as well as putting a lot more into the productions. The "high budget" operation is the Washington Savoyards, considered by some to be "semi-professional". I guess that means they pay a lot more than the average community theater, but not enough for anyone to actually live off of. I performed with them for about eight years (chorus and minor roles), and am in effect their "Producer Emeritus", having served them as Producer for several years. I still represent them at the Northern Virginia Theater Alliance, and serve as the "de facto" book manager for concessions and scores. (I would do more with one or more of these groups if my personal situation permitted.) The Washington Savoyards pay for the privilege of performing downtown in a theater associated with the public school system (although administered partly through a separate endowment). The deal with this organization was recently amended to include rehearsal space, formerly contracted separately with churches in the suburbs. The sets are built by contractors. The directors and designers are paid competitive rates (i.e. more than community theaters can afford, in general). The orchestra (c.30 pieces) and performers are paid, but not generally at union rates. The light and sound equipment is often augmented with rentals. Costumes are rented, many being designed and fabricated especially for the particular production. Some of the shows I produced involved renting set pieces from Washington Opera, and consulting with Arena Stage on pyrotechnic special effects. (These are full-fledged regional professional theaters.) The Washington Savoyards employ a sound designer and a board operator for live-mix sound reinforcement, and, at times, sound effects. They are moving towards more professional (i.e. high-paid) staff. They have increased the pay of the lead performers several times. They now even pay the Producer several thousand dollars a year (I wish they did that when I was the Producer; I was a volunteer!). In summation: the Washington Savoyards pay all their staff and performers, in some cases at or near the prevailing competitive rates for regional theater; they contract out for sets and costumes, re-using little or nothing; and they perform in a rented space downtown. I guess we would have to get updated budget figures to verify Leta's contention; but she is substantially correct. For all practical purposes, these three theaters operate in three different realms. GG&SS is a college theater, subsidized and operating on a shoestring. VLOC is a community theater, with modest subsidies and contributions. The Washington Savoyards have pretensions of aspiring to become regional theater, paying nearly commercial prices for many things, and financed partially by contributions (and a modest concessions operation), but mostly through ticket sales. The other groups are financed even more so by ticket sales. I mentioned some of my experience above. To put it in perspective: I have served several times as Artistic Producer, and as Business Producer (and have performed many character roles) at Adventure Theatre; I was Producer for Hexagon (with a budget larger even than the Washington Savoyards); I was Technical Director, and Master Carpenter at Springfield Community Theater (where I won the Alliance of Community Theater's award for best set construction); and have performend and worked tech (makeup, lights, stage crew) with these and several others. So I am familiar with performance, tech, and administrative aspects of the theater. To put it in the terms that we government bureaucrats use: I think I have addressed most of the major cost drivers in this analysis. I hope this helps, Leta. It's always a pleasure working with you. John Austen  1,, Summary-line: 16-Apr Sternenberg, Philip #RE: utopia Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08317; Tue, 16 Apr 96 12:22:52 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA10548; Tue, 16 Apr 96 12:22:50 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA06581; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:23:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:23:32 -0400 Message-Id: <3173F2C5@ms-mail-gate.hac.vlt.eds.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: utopia X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:23:32 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: utopia X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 >But getting back to the point, while I had read the libretto of UTOPIA a >couple of times, I had never heard the music. I was prepared for the direct >quote from PINAFORE, but I was astonished at how familiar the rest of the >music sounded. I recognized snatches from IOLANTHE, IDA, and I think, >GONDOLIERS. Additionally, there were many moments when I was *sure* I had >heard something very similar in one of the other operettas, without being >able to place it exactly. Tell me, are all the other operettas represented >musically in UTOPIA? > >Mary A. Finn I'll respond by quoting most of one of my posts from September: Dan Kravetz commented on something several months ago: There is an embarrassing similarity between "For everyone who feels inclined" (GONDOLIERS) and "In every mental lore" (UTOPIA). More embarrassing is the amount of time I've spent getting around to sending the following: UTOPIA seems to have a lot more in common with its predecessors than just Captain Corcoran's return and the Mikado reference. Musically I've found the following besides the one Dan mentioned (which is so obvious I noticed it the first time I heard it): 1. "In lazy languor motionless" starts with the same eight notes (transposed) and rhythm as the Templar's "Now, nay, fair flower of Palestine" (Page 155 of IVANHOE score, about 30 seconds after "Lord of our chosen race" ends). 2. Phylla's solo, "The song of birds," starts with the same eight notes (transposed) and rhythm as "Now, harken to my strict command" (IDA). 3. "With wily brain" starts out almost exactly like "It's clear that mediaeval art" (PATIENCE). 4. The string bridge following "It needn't be a hymn one" may be recycled from that which precedes "Oh, here is love" (PIRATES -- even the same key of B flat). 5. Although "When but a maid" has an original melody, I keep expecting Sophy to follow "Ah, me! Ah, me!" with "I was a pale young curate then" (SORCERER). 6. "Upon our sea girt land" could have been taken from "The soldiers of our Queen" (PATIENCE). Sullivan also quoted other composers more often in UTOPIA (I think) than in any other opera. There are quotes from "Rule, Brittania" (three times), "Irish Washer Woman," the traditional hornpipe, and "Johnny Get Your Gun." Gilbert recycled a few phrases as well, either quoting or coming close. I've found the following (quoting as they appear in UTOPIA): 1. "Each a little bit afraid is" (MIKADO). 2. "Rather less, perhaps, than more" (YEOMEN). 3. "At last we are alone" (SORCERER and MIKADO). 4. "I am not altogether a free agent" (PATIENCE). 5. "Oh, joy unbounded!" (TRIAL). 6. "In serried ranks assembles" (MIKADO). 7. "Two and two are three or five or . . ." (IDA). 8. "Hour by hour and day by day" (RUDDIGORE). 9. "That is the idea I intended to convey" (PINAFORE and GONDOLIERS). 10. "Dwindle, starve, and die" (YEOMEN). 11. "The bulwark and foundation of England's greatness" (PINAFORE). And, of course, the whole companification process simply extends what the Duke of Plaza-Toro did for himself in GONDOLIERS. I invite anyone who can find other examples of either author's quoting himself in UTOPIA to submit them. Perhaps I'm being overcritical. UTOPIA is certainly not the first time either author borrowed from himself, and other G&S operas might produce lists similar to these. With something as late as UTOPIA, there was a lot more from which to borrow. I tend to draw one of two conclusions, though. Either G&S really were creatively drained and subconsciously overdrew on their past efforts; or, being deviously ingenious, they intentionally tried to give their audience things subtly recognizable (excepting the Mikado and Corcoran references from "subtly") and thereby more enjoyable. The former is probably the case, but it's nice to believe the latter. For whatever it's worth, UTOPIA may have returned the favor to other authors. Basil Hood began ROSE OF PERSIA with "As we lie in languor lazy." Peter Kline's Theater Student book wondered whether Leonard Bernstein thought of "Bold faced ranger" when he composed "I feel pretty." The Singing Nun's "Dominique" came to mind the first time I heard "First you're born." Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@hkvltpo1.hkvlt001.hac.vlt.eds.com  1,, Summary-line: 17-Apr Ronald Orenstein #Re: By Strauss! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28463; Wed, 17 Apr 96 10:19:22 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25752; Wed, 17 Apr 96 10:19:16 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA27237; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:15:01 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:15:01 -0400 Message-Id: <199604171403.KAA09507@mail.inforamp.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ornstn@inforamp.net (Ronald Orenstein) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: By Strauss! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:15:01 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ornstn@inforamp.net (Ronald Orenstein) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: By Strauss! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 >I love Orpheus. The recording is based on the DOC/Opera North >production of a few years ago and features a new English libretto which >is very funny. It is based on the original 2-Act version of the Offenbach >original with (I think) one song from the extended version introduced >(a trio in Act 1?). There is no overture, just an orchestral introduction The added number is Mercury's solo, with Jupiter and Juno joining in at the end (A-hop, a-skip - or, in the original, "et hop, et hop, place a Mercure"). There is no overture because there isn't one in the original; as I have pointed out before, the famous overture is not by Offenbach but by Karl Binder, and was written for Vienna. Offenbach wrote his own overture for the greatly-expanded four-act version. The D'OC is the only professional english-language recording to stick so closely to Offenbach's intentions. However, to my mind nothing beats Offenbach in french - try John Eliot Gardiner's recording of "Les Brigands", for example. COMMERCIAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS: BUT - if anyone out there is thinking of producing such things, I must put in a plug for my old Ann Arbor group, the Comic Opera Guild. We've done a lot of Offenbach, Strauss etc, almost entirely to our own translations, which are available for rental with parts. Three of the Offenbach translations are mine (Ba-ta-clan, La Perichole and La Vie Parisienne). Other Offenbachs available are Orpheus, La Belle Helene and Robinson Crusoe, as well as Les Brigands in Gilbetr's translation; Strauss versions are Fledermaus, Gypsy Baron and A Night in Venice. We also have odds and ends such as Pergolesi's La Serva Padrona and Breton's La Verbena de la Paloma. Anyone interested can write Tom Petiet at 3211 Packard, Ann Arbor MI 48108. END OF COMMERCIAL MESSAGE - YOU MAY RESUME NORMAL ACTIVITY -- Ronald I. Orenstein Phone: (905) 820-7886 (home) International Wildlife Coalition Fax/Modem: (905) 569-0116 (home) Home: 1825 Shady Creek Court Messages: (416) 368-4661 Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5L 3W2 Internet: ornstn@inforamp.net Office: 130 Adelaide Street W., Suite 1940 Toronto, Ontario Canada M5H 3P5  1,, Summary-line: 18-Apr David Lewis #Re: Straight .. (more) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03970; Thu, 18 Apr 96 14:37:46 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02094; Thu, 18 Apr 96 14:37:26 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA00827; Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:37:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:37:49 -0400 Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Lewis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Straight .. (more) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 1.10 <3B4D7F5TyhqbU9g9+7$3fv$+cE> Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:37:49 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Lewis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Straight .. (more) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 1.10 <3B4D7F5TyhqbU9g9+7$3fv$+cE> Mime-Version: 1.0 In article <960417135346_515953702@mail06>, LetaMH@aol.com writes >I'm sorry - I forgot to mention the other reason why >I define Oklahoma as modern - we share theater space >with Rockville Musical Theater. We do G&S and other >"period pieces" and they do later musicals. So I have >gotten into the habit of defining anything as modern >that would step on RMT's toes. In any internal >discussion on what show to do next, if one is mentioned >that was written later than 1900 (we were pushing it >with Merry Widow) we call it "too modern" and leave >it to RMT. > >LMH Just a suggestion.... There is a show that would suit G&S societies very well, for it has lots of work for the chorus and quite a lot of principal parts. It is very well known on this side of the Atlantic, but, I think, not so well known in the USA. It is Edward German's "Merrie England." It is set in the time of Elizabeth I, and tells the tale of her love for Walter Raleigh, and her spite when he turns to a lady of the court, Bessie Throgmorton. It has been recorded many times, and often by opera singers. There is a sub plot involving Jill All Alone (suspected of witchcraft) and the Rose Queen (a village girl). There are lovely songs, well known here, such as The Yeoman of England (sung by a baritone and male chorus), O Peaceful England (a stirring patriotic song, sung by the contralto Queen Elizabeth, It is the Merry Month of May (sung by the mezzo Jill and tenor Walter), The Perfect English Rose (tenor, Walter Raleigh) and then there are two brothers who sing a duet, a good humorous song for a baritone and chorus, wonderful full blooded mixed chorus numbers and great act finales. It is set in the English countryside, in May. There are opportunities for beautiful costumes. Perhaps I am biased, for I met my husband when he was directing the show and I had the small role of Kate (yes, there's a Kate!). It is old fashioned, but there is an updated version available. I think the original is out of copyright. If you want any more information, please email me. Marie Lewis -- David Lewis  1,, Summary-line: 23-Apr Mike Storie #Seattle G&S Society and Video Tapes Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22616; Tue, 23 Apr 96 19:32:48 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26213; Tue, 23 Apr 96 19:32:46 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA13826; Tue, 23 Apr 1996 19:33:27 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 19:33:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199604232336.QAA24062@montana.nwlink.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Seattle G&S Society and Video Tapes X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 19:33:27 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: mstorie@nwlink.com (Mike Storie) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Seattle G&S Society and Video Tapes X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Thanks to a number of people on the list for their kind words about our video tapes. We only produce one G&S show per year and we try to make it the best possible amateur stage production. Our Seattle audiences (varying between 6,000 and over 9,000 depending on the show) seem quite appreciative of our efforts. (We presently have 40 people in our organization who have participated in the production of the entire G&S canon with our Society. At one show per year, that's a lot of dedication!) I think we now have a good handle on the making videos of G&S shows. It came from a lot of trial and error (that our Artistic Director will not be allowed to be shown for other than archive purposes) and to the dedication of Skip Barttels (a Trustee) who spends countless hours directing and editing the results. He uses three cameras (we rent professional-quality cameras, and hire operators and an engineer) and mixes the stereo sound from microphones on each section of the orchestra, on the stage and even on the front of the balcony for ambient sound. The key to the thing is for the director (of the video) to know the production intimately -- who is going to sing next and where the funny bits are. The editing and sound mix-down is done digitally and put on a large format master tape. All of the VHS copies are as close to first generation as we can get them. So far we have produced videos of THE MIKADO and RUDDIGORE to this quality. Our show this summer will be HMS PINAFORE tentatively followed in subsequent years by IOLANTHE, PIRATES, and THE GRAND DUKE. For those who may be in the Seattle area in July, our show dates are July 12-13, 18-21 and 25-27. We will make our video on the 27th. (This is why we are unable to attend the Festival Philadelphia) After which we will pack up the whole shebang and sail HMS Pinafore back to England for a presentation at the Buxton Opera House on the evening of August 13th! In direct answer to several inquiries, you can contact the Seattle G&S society as follows: Phone: (206) 682-0796 (Julie Jenkins, our office manager, will return your call and answer any questions, including credit card orders) FAX: (206) 292-0916 Mail: The Seattle Gilbert & Sullivan Society 800 Mercer Street, Suite B Seattle, WA 98109 E-mail: mstorie@nwlink.com The videos of THE MIKADO and RUDDIGORE are $30 each plus $2 postage. The video of HMS PINAFORE will be the same price and should be available late September. We also have available stereo cassette recordings of the entire G&S canon (plus COX & BOX) at $9 each or $90 for the entire canon. Each live recording is complete and uncut (usually on two cassettes) with all dialog and audience reaction. The audio recordings of THE MIKADO and RUDDIGORE are the same quality as the sound tracks for the above videos. The rest of the cassettes are pretty well engineered however the older ones aren't quite up to our standards of today. I think you will find them enjoyable however and they are really great in the car stereo for those long commutes. Thank you for allowing a long commercial, but I've got to think of some way to help get all these starving actors to Buxton. Mike Storie Seattle Gilbert & Sullivan Society  1,, Summary-line: 1-May Eugenia Horne #Re: The Gilbert Archive: A Proposal Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03489; Wed, 1 May 96 12:44:12 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02513; Wed, 1 May 96 12:44:09 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA23884; Wed, 1 May 1996 12:44:17 -0400 Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:44:17 -0400 Message-Id: <273DE221454@AD.ISU.EDU> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Eugenia Horne" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Gilbert Archive: A Proposal X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:44:17 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Eugenia Horne" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Gilbert Archive: A Proposal X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Fraser Charlton wrote: > Having come to the end of Jane Stedman's magnificant biography of > Gilbert and looking through the list of sources, I was struck by just how > much of Gilbert's writing is as-good-as unavailable. Major shows can only > be found in the original printing, or perhaps a private one by Terrence > Rees in 1968, and the chances of even a committed Gilbertian like myself > stumbling across them in a secondhand bookshop is slight, to say the > least. The only way of getting hold of them seems to be via a trip to the > Lord Chamberlain's vaults or the British Museum, or persuading one of the > 'Inner Brotherhood' to photocopy them for you. I didn't have much trouble persuading one of the "Inner Brotherhood" to photocopy (actually microfilm, the item was too old to photocopy) certain...uh...out-of-print obscure sheet music. This was AFTER several major U.S. Library refused to loan (or copy) their copies and The U.S. Library of Congress said they had "lost their copy" (this was particularly annoying as they charge a $10.00 search fee which is non-refundable even if they don't find what a person wants). I was amazed at how fast and polite the UK institution was in comparison. Anyway, as regards to W.S. Gilbert, the local library has the following: "Pygmalion and Galatea" An original mythological comedy in three acts. (Chicago: Dramatic Publishing Company, 1886) "W.S. Gilbert Plays & Poems" (Random House, Inc. USA 1932) which besides the 14 G&S librettos and Bab Ballads includes: - "The Palace of Truth" - "The Mountebanks" A Comic Opera with music by Alfred Cellie [Note: That's how the name was spelled.] - "His Excellency" A Comic Opera with music by Osmond Carr [In progress of being scanned.] "Plays by W.S. Gilbert" (Cambridge University Press, 1982) which includes: - "The Palace of Truth" - "Sweethearts" - "Princess Toto" - "Engaged" - "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern" [Aside: I once tried to get a local community theater group to do "Sweethearts"; they didn't go for it.] "The Lost Stories of W.S. Gilbert" (Robson Books, Ltd, UK 1982) which includes 20 short stories. Is there anything of particular interest that you desire? - Eugenia  1,, Summary-line: 3-May DILLARDP@edu-suu-lifac.li #Gilbert's other plays Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21476; Fri, 3 May 96 10:34:17 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25005; Fri, 3 May 96 10:34:15 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA14442; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:35:23 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:35:23 -0400 Message-Id: <117E8494FB8@edu-suu-lifac.li.suu.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Gilbert's other plays X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:35:23 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Gilbert's other plays X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Noting recent interest in Gilbert-without-Sullivan works, I thought I might identify a few books in which some of Gilbert's plays can be found. Certainly some of WSG's dramatic works (he produced over 70 works for the stage, of which only 14 were done with Sullivan) are hard to find or just plain unavailable, but given the current revival of interest (which will increase as Jane Stedman's new book gets wider exposure), one can at least find SOME of WSG's other plays. (Whew, that was a long, convoluted sentence!) If you wish to read some of WSG's other plays, here are some books that ought to be obtainable. As starters: Gilbert, W. S. Original Plays. First Series. London: Chatto & Windus, 1926. 287 p. Contains: The Wicked World; Pygmalion and Galatea; Charity; the Princess; the Palace of Truth; Trial by Jury; Iolanthe. _____________ Original Plays. Second Series. London: Chatto & Windus, 1930. 338 p. Contains: Broken Hearts; Engaged; Dan'l Druce; Tom Cobb, or, Fortune's Toy; The Sorcerer; HMS Pinafore; Pirates of Penzance. _____________ Original Plays. Third Series. London: Chatto & Windus, 1928. 453 p. Contains: Comedy and Tragedy; Foggerty's Fairy; Rosencrantz and Guildenstern; Patience; Mikado; Yeomen; Utopia. ____________ Original Plays. Fourth Series. London: Chatto & Windus, 1926. 499 p. Contains: The Fairy's Dilemma; Grand Duke; His Excellency; Haste to the Wedding; Fallen Fairies; The Gentleman in Black; Brantinghame Hall; Creatures of Impulse; Randall's Thumb; The Fortune-Hunter; Thespis; The Hooligan; Trying a Dramatist. ___________ Plays and Poems of W. S. Gilbert. New York: Random House, 1946. 1218 p. Contains: The Palace of Truth; The Mountebanks; His Excellency. ___________ Plays by W. S. Gilbert. Ed. George Rowell. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1982. 189 p. Contains: Engaged; Rosencrantz and Gildenstern; The Palace of Truth; Sweethearts; Princess Toto. Stedman, Jane. Gilbert Before Sullivan. Six Comic Plays by W. S. Gilbert. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1967. 270 p. Contains: No Cards; Ages Ago; Our Island Home; A Sensation Novel; Happy Acadia; Eyes and No Eyes. In addition, there are plays which have been published individually. Granted, some of these publication dates are rather old, but...assume my usual diatribe about using InterLibrary Loan services of your friendly neighborhood Library. (Librarians are such wonderful people!). Can (and will) list more books if there is interest. Phil dillard@suu.edu  1,, Summary-line: 10-May Steve Sullivan #New Bab URL Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27226; Fri, 10 May 96 14:01:06 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06659; Fri, 10 May 96 14:00:03 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA14732; Fri, 10 May 1996 14:01:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:01:10 -0400 Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Steve Sullivan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Bab URL X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:01:10 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Steve Sullivan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Bab URL X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 I am now ready to make a formal announcement of a new URL at: http://members.aol.com/guron This site contains high resolution copies of Bab illustrations. They are well suited to being down loaded and added to other documents. For example: they look really sharp when printed in a two inch frame using a laser printer. Unfortunately, this means that unless you have a very high resolution monitor or a Web Browser that re-sizes them to fit on your screen, these illustrations can be difficult to view. If you would like to add a link to this site from your site, please do so. For example, here is a copy of the HTML link in The G&SVLOC site. ------------------Cut here------------------------------------- Visit Bab Illustrations of the works of Gilbert & Sullivan to see a collection of drawings by W. S. Gilbert that illustrate the G&S operettas. ------------------Cut here------------------------------------- Feedback is welcome. Enjoy Stephen B. Sullivan  1,, Summary-line: 15-May KenKrantz@aol.com #Sorcerer trapdoors Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26196; Wed, 15 May 96 21:59:31 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04329; Wed, 15 May 96 21:59:28 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA15494; Wed, 15 May 1996 22:00:30 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:00:30 -0400 Message-Id: <960515215915_114522018@emout09.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: KenKrantz@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sorcerer trapdoors X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:00:30 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: KenKrantz@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sorcerer trapdoors X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 --PART.BOUNDARY.0.22442.emout09.mail.aol.com.832211955 Content-ID: <0_22442_832211955@emout09.mail.aol.com.68633> Content-type: text/plain --PART.BOUNDARY.0.22442.emout09.mail.aol.com.832211955 Content-ID: <0_22442_832211955@emout09.mail.aol.com.68634> Content-type: text/plain; name="TRAPDOOR" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In 1976 (when the centennial was prompting a lot of productions of Sorcerer) I did Sir Marmaduke in a production that used a trapdoor to great effect. It was with Sinfonicron, a student group at the College of William & Mary (shameless plug: they still do very good productions, usually in January, and are well worth planning a Colonial Williamsburg vacation around). My only personal involvement in the bit was to make sure I was standing far enough away to avoid singing my fake sideburns. One of the technicians involved could undoubtedly explain it better, but here goes: The existing cover for the trap (a platform perhaps 4x5 feet) was replaced with one custom-designed for the stunt. Wells stood on a smaller trap. In front of him was a tube of flash powder. Think of it as a pipe about an inch in diameter, sawn in half lengthwise, with one of the halves imbedded in the flooring and you'll have the idea. The whole contraption, including the trap he stood on and the top of the flash powder tube, was flush with the stage floor. In the room under the stage was the technician who sprang the trap and a tall stack of mattresses reminiscent of the princess and the pea. At the cue the trap was sprung, the flash powder was ignited, and Wells dropped like a stone, with a sheet of flame and smoke between him and the audience. Frequently in stage falls (including just about every production of Tosca I have ever seen or been in) the performer telegraphs the bit by flinching or bending the knees. In that Sorcerer the drop was sufficiently deep, the landing area sufficiently well padded, and the Wells sufficiently athletic that he was able to remain standing completely straight until he was under the stage out of sight of the audience. As you may imagine, the bit was rehearsed over and over, first just the fall and then the fall with the pyrotechnics, to get it just right. The room under the stage in that theater is the entrance to the orchestra pit. The pit is on a hydraulic lift and the custom of the company was and is for the orchestra to slowly rise to house level during the curtain call music. In that production the chorus and other principals took their calls as the orchestra slowly rose (playing, if memory serves, the "With heart and with voice" march music). Alexis and Aline took their bow just as the pit reached house level, when Wells, who was now revealed to have been conducting the curtain call music, turned to face the audience for his bow. =1A= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.22442.emout09.mail.aol.com.832211955--  1,, Summary-line: 17-Jun CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Important Sullivan dissertation now available Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26526; Mon, 17 Jun 96 13:47:05 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11663; Mon, 17 Jun 96 13:47:05 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA12165; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 13:48:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 13:48:23 -0400 Message-Id: <01I60LQRDJTE9QUXR7@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Important Sullivan dissertation now available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 13:48:23 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Important Sullivan dissertation now available X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum A significant doctoral thesis concerning the Sullivan operas has become available. I have seen it, and it will be of particular interest to musical directors who wish to have detailed knowledge of the extant autograph full scores. It also contains, among the many musical examples, most of the "lost" material including the ghost music from Ruddigore, Strephon's song from Iolanthe, and many others. As of yet, it is not available through University Microfilms, but it can be ordered from the University of Wales. Author: David Russell Hulme Title: The Operettas of Sir Arthur Sullivan: A Study of Aavailable Autograph Full Scores Submitted August, 1986; 496 pages. It is available for about 66 pounds sterling including handling charge and surface mail to the USA; airmail charges would add another 27.50 pounds. To receive an application form which will quote all charges, and has a required declaration to be signed stating that appropriate credit will be given the author of the thesis by the user should any information be "helpful", interested parties can write: The Hugh Owen Library The University of Wales Penglais ABERYSTWYTH Ceredigion, SY23 3DZ Great Britain Needless to say, this thesis contains much information not generally available elsewhere and its bibliography alone is of interest. Here are the chapters: 1. Introduction: A Survey of Selected Source Material. 2. Framing and Scoring. 3. Changes Prior to Orchestration. 4. Orchestration. 5. Further Changes Prior to Performance. 6. Overtures and Introductions. 7. The Initial Run of Performances. 8. Revivals and Later Productions. 9. After 1900. 10. Concluding Remarks. Some of Hulme's conclusions will no doubt be controversial. In scholarship there are always points which will be clarified and rethought by future research. But this thesis contains a quantity of new raw information which has been buried for decades and was never known by more than a handful of people who were privileged to work with the original documents. Many of the questions which have come up on Savoynet are answered in Hulme. For some of us at least, this is a most important document to which one should have access. +--------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |P.O. Box 195A | are paramount." |College of the Holy Cross | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |1 College Street | |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 U.S.A.| |Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu| |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 2-Jul DglsWhaley@aol.com #Re: Fatal Blown Lines Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20759; Tue, 2 Jul 96 22:17:44 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18889; Tue, 2 Jul 96 22:17:37 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA00134; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:19:07 -0400 Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:19:07 -0400 Message-Id: <960702221628_426538791@emout09.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Fatal Blown Lines X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:19:07 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: DglsWhaley@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Fatal Blown Lines X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum How about this alteration: King: You may wind up a Limited Company, [but] you cannot conveniently blow it up! Scaphio: No, but we _can_ file an involuntary bankruptcy petition, which we've done. Phantis: And, resolving the awkward romantic problems of Act One, we are foreclosing on Nekaya and Kalyba. Douglas Whaley Columbus, Ohio (614)846-5911 email: "Nothing is more annoying than to feel you're not equal to the intellectual pressure of the conversation."  1,, Summary-line: 12-Jul Steven Martin #Re: "Lost" Yeomen songs Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25446; Fri, 12 Jul 96 17:06:48 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06338; Fri, 12 Jul 96 17:06:47 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA01647; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:06:32 -0400 Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:06:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199607121345.JAA03322@Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Steven Martin To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: "Lost" Yeomen songs X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:06:32 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Steven Martin To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: "Lost" Yeomen songs X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum I've written Bruce Miller regarding a source for "A laughing boy" piano/vocal material; in case anyone's interested, here's some info on this collection: SING WITH SULLIVAN : A NEW ANTHOLOGY OF MUSIC FOR VOICE Selected and Edited by Terence Rees & Roderick Spencer Copyright 1977 by J.B.Cramer & Co.,Ltd.,99 St.Martin's Lane, London, WC2N 4AZ The editor's preface says "Well over fifty percent of Sullivan's total musical output is today no longer available in print, and this anthology is a modest at tempt to restore the balance." The following songs are included: THE CONTRABANDISTA-- "Wake, gentle maiden", "He will return", "From rock to rock", "Let others seek" THESPIS-- "Little Maid of Arcadee" IOLANTHE-- "My bill has now been read ... Fold your flapping wings" THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD-- "A laughing boy but yesterday" IVANHOE-- "Ho, Jolly Jenkin", "Lord of our chosen race" HADDON HALL-- Madrigal-"When the budding bloom of May", "Why weep and wait?" THE BEAUTY STONE Laine's prayer-"Dear Mary Mother", Duet-"Nay, nay! thou lov'st me not ... I too had seen a star", Duet-"I would see a maid" THE ROSE OF PERSIA-- "O life has put into my hand", "'Neath my lattice", "I care not if the cup I hold" TWO SONGS-- "Ich moechte hinaus es jauchzen" (written for Rosamond Barnett in Leipzig) "O Swallow, Swallow" (lyric from Tennyson's "The Princess") Have no idea if this is currently available; I got mine in around 1982 or 1983. Steven Martin a1srm@ttuvm1.ttu.edu  1,, Summary-line: 12-Jul Larry Byler #Re: "Lost" Yeomen songs Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07360; Fri, 12 Jul 96 18:37:50 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15050; Fri, 12 Jul 96 18:37:49 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA03545; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:33:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:33:13 -0400 Message-Id: <17019.837210605@hpmpea2> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Larry Byler To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: "Lost" Yeomen songs X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:33:13 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Larry Byler To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: "Lost" Yeomen songs X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Bruce Miller (CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu) wrote: >Mitch: The copy I got of Shadbolt's song was a privately >made computer score, and I don't feel at liberty to give you >the creator's name - unless he has seen your post and has >perhaps already contacted you. I'm the one who contacted Bruce privately, not because I wished to remain unknown (thanks anyway, Bruce), but because I wanted to spare net bandwidth. I have a PostScript file of a piano-vocal version of _When jealous torments wrack my soul_, which I entered on my computer from a handwritten copy arranged by Ed Munzer. This file does not mail well, as we discovered yesterday, but I also have a ZIPped UUENCODEd version of the same file. This mails just fine -- *if* you have the tools to UUDECODE and unZIP what you get. If anyone else would like this UUENCODEd file, please contact me *privately* (to spare all the "I want one" messages from cluttering up SavoyNet), and I'll be glad to mail it to you. Sorry, I do not have _A laughing boy_. If anyone has a piano-vocal version of this, *I'd* appreciate a copy. If it's not under copyright, you can fax me a copy at (408)447-1434 (mark it to my attention, it's a semi-public fax machine), and I'll put it on the computer as well. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -Larry Byler- e-mail: lbyler@cup.hp.com Lyric Theatre: Videographer (the performing company of the Rehearsal pianist (1 of 3) Gilbert & Sullivan Society of San Jose) Stanford Savoyards: Videographer Rehearsal pianist (1 of 4)  1,, Summary-line: 16-Jul Ernie Fosse #RE: Reviews you have to laugh at Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00610; Tue, 16 Jul 96 11:58:07 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01034; Tue, 16 Jul 96 11:58:06 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA29157; Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:57:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:57:35 -0400 Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ernie Fosse To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Reviews you have to laugh at X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:57:35 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ernie Fosse To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Reviews you have to laugh at X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.0 She was apparently sitting much closer to the Harvard Exit Theatre than the Bagley Wright. That's a real kick! Unfortunately, there are a lot of "Arts and Entertainment" editors, these days, who know far more about entertainment than they do about art. On a related note: Our company only does a couple productions a year, and it's easy for editors to forget about us from one time to the next. In an effort to prevent being ignored, I got an appointment with, and spent most of an afternoon talking to, the Arts Editor of the Everett Herald a few years ago . I wanted to find out how to go about getting the attention of the editor when we were relatively unknown. She was a gold-mine of information. At her suggestion I altered our form of sending Press Releases. She suggested a campaign of familiarization targetted at the press, followed by a multifunction Press-packet. The idea is to send some kind of early and frequent (weekly, bi-monthly, monthly, whatever) correspondence to the Entertainment desk at all of the local papers. These should be headed "Backgrounder", not "Press Release". Right under the heading, there should be a line identifying the scheduled production dates (to keep it in the front of their minds). The backgrounders might be plot outlines, biographies of the author/composer, history of the company, any kind of feature about which you can write a one or two page article. The idea is to launch a campaign of familiarization, targeted at the arts and entertainment staff. As you move closer to your production dates, you start sending "Press Releases" about cast members who live in the area served by the paper -- local, personal interest stuff. Don't expect the paper to send out reporters to interview anyone, write the interview yourself, using your best journalistic talent. ("Resumes" are not exciting to read.) Highlight major accomplishments, unusual hobbies, whatever it takes to capture the average newspaper reader's attention. (ie. What would capture *your* attention if you didn't know this person?) With each Press Release, include a copy of the backgrounder you wrote about your theatre company, highlighting the upcoming production name and dates. In other words, give the Arts writer some tools to work with -- make it easy for them to write about *you* instead of someone else. When tickets are ready to go on sale, start sending the *Production* Press Releases. A week or two before opening, send a Press Packet containing another copy of _everything_ you have sent out previously (in case they "misplaced" it). Include a cover letter inviting the editor to attend and review your dress rehearsal or opening night. Offer to have complimentary tickets available at will-call, but do not include them in the mail. (Most papers prefer to buy their own tickets to avoid any feeling of obligation to the production -- and to avoid having the very conspicuous seats in the front row, center.) Those are the tips she gave me, and they seem to work pretty well. Good luck, >E~~ >erniefo@microsoft.com >[I'm driving a "company car" on the Information Superhighway. >Unless I have explicitly claimed to be speaking on my employer's >behalf, any opinion I have expressed is strictly my own.] > >---------- >From: mstorie@nwlink.com[SMTP:mstorie@nwlink.com] >Sent: Monday, July 15, 1996 2:23 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Reviews you have to laugh at > >I'm sure all producers of G&S have been frustrated by reviewers who either >don't know anything about G&S or spend half their review pontificating about >how much they hate G&S and why. We actually had a review a few years ago >that began: >"There's nothing worse than having to sit through the silly plots and >insipid songs of Gilbert & Sullivan, but if you can stand the stuff, the >latest production by the Seattle Gilbert & Sullivan Society isn't bad." > >At our opening of "Pinafore" last Friday, we nearly fell down laughing at a >preview in the "Capitol Hill Times" that seems to lack something in artistic >verisimilitude. I reprint it here verbatim: > >G AND S SET SAIL >by Rosemary Jones > >As much as I like "Les Miz," I also wish that Gilbert and Sullivan could be >writing today. Imagine what they would do with the "mega-musical" trend >that invaded British theater in the 1980s. > >As it was, they took on every excess and success of Victorian England in >superb social satire. One of my favorites, "HMS Pinafore," returns to the >Bagley Wright Theater at the Seattle Center on July 12. > >The Seattle Gilbert and Sullivan Society's productions, under the longtime >artistic directorship of Gordon Gutteridge, always sell out and deserve to >do so. Supremely silly and expertly sung with just enough mugging to get >the more obscure points across to the American audience, the Society's >productions win new fans for Gilbert and Suillivan every year. > >This plot involves a lad apprenticed to pirates, a bevy of beauteous maids >led by a girl named Mabel, the very model of a modern major general and a >large group of policemen stealing stealthily through the night. In fact, >this is one of the easier Gilbert and Sullivan stories to follow and was >even made into a rather amusing movie with Kevin Kline and Linda Ronstadt. > >"HMS Pinafore" runs July 12 through July 27 at the Bagley Wright Theater. >For ticket information, call (206) 682-0796. > > >I wonder where she was sitting? > >  1,, Summary-line: 20-Jul CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Re: Chorus and Orchestra Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06581; Sat, 20 Jul 96 21:11:56 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03826; Sat, 20 Jul 96 21:11:55 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA05911; Sat, 20 Jul 1996 21:11:45 -0400 Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 21:11:45 -0400 Message-Id: <01I7B4IMNC1U95NWPE@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Chorus and Orchestra X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 21:11:45 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Chorus and Orchestra X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The string complement in Sullivan's pit was not terribly large, but he demanded fine players and often filled out the sound by requiring double-stopping - particularly in the 2nd violins and violas. Often the pirated parts from Kalmus and even, sometimes, the "official" rented material will suggest divisi in these passages, but this makes sense only if the string section is enlarged. Beware too of revised bowings in the parts. What often has happened is that the bowings often have been shortened by various unauthorized persons, making it less difficult for the players but leading to a less seamless sound. Sometimes the vocal scores help here, sometimes not. The Kalmus Mikado full score is very helpful in this regard, and there is now a critical edition of Trial, but as to the others the reserach is very difficult at present. Sullivan seemed to require the minimal numbers in his violins as 4 and 3, with two each of violas, cellos and double basses. Some people raise their eyebrows at the 2 basses, but practical experience has convinced me of the wisdom in this. The higher harmonics of the orchestra bloom beautifully with 2 cellos and 2 basses, but with one bass they aren't quite the same - and Sullivan evidently liked the solid basses sound resulting from these numbers. He was writing for a theatre with fine acoustics and holding a little over a thousand people (the Opera Comique held even less). In larger halls the strings probably could stand some increasing, but the numbers mentioned above cover everything nicely and with sufficient sonority so long as the players are first rate. The chorus at the Opera Comique was 20 women and 20 men, but when they moved to the Savoy they had an "increased chorus" which I believe was as large as 48 or 50 people. Forty well trained choristers can produce one hell of a wonderful sound, and one can imagine the impact of such a group in a smallish hall. Today some professional companies try to get by with 16 or less, but it's not the same. For Yeomen he really did make full use of his 25 or so men, which divide into 4-part Yeomen and the remaining 8 or so men divided the tenor and bass parts in the populace chorus. Don't forget that the later operas, beginning with Yeomen, are scored for a slightly larger wind section (two bassoons instead of one and three trombones instead of two). He may have had a couple of additional violins added at that time, as well. It is possible to get cut-down orchestrations, and there are people on the net who can send you in that direction. It depends on your priorities. I get very annoyed with places such as Goodspeed Opera, which always cut down their orchestras as a matter of course, and sometimes they aren't very careful with how they accomplish this. Sullivan was such a careful - not to say masterful - orchestrator than there is not one wasted note in them, and any wind part which is omitted leads to inevitable harm to the sound. It is possible, however, to cut the strings back to the very small numbers suggested above and have a perfectly acceptable balance. +--------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |P.O. Box 195A | are paramount." |College of the Holy Cross | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |1 College Street | |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 U.S.A.| |Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu| |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 21-Jul PZAVON@delphi.com #G&S Story, video distribution rights obt Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06608; Sun, 21 Jul 96 15:44:24 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19032; Sun, 21 Jul 96 15:44:23 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA07763; Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:43:29 -0400 Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:43:29 -0400 Message-Id: <01I7C8J4TG60937XZF@delphi.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: PZAVON@delphi.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S Story, video distribution rights obt X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:43:29 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: PZAVON@delphi.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S Story, video distribution rights obt X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Ian Smith, President of the G&S Festival, has tracked down the ownership of the movie, "The Gilbert and Sullivan Story." This is the one with Robert Morley as WSG, and lots of clips of bits of the cannon, filmed while the copyright to the works were still in force and held by the D'Oyly Carte company. Ian tracked the ownership through multiple amalgamations and outright sales. It ended up as one of some 23,000 films which were recently bought by a large film distribution company in Paris. He contacted them just a week after that purchase, before they had fully catalogued their new holdings. After much negotiation, Ian has obtained worldwide video mail order sales rights to the film. He will be making it available in both North American (NTSC) and UK (PAL) formats, and expects that the PAL format, at least, should be available by the time the Festival opens in Buxton. [The Video master was received only last Monday.] The cost of a video copy of this film will be UK#19.95 or US$30.00. Add to this fees for insurance, postage and packaging in the amount of UK#1.25 for destinations in the UK, UK# 2.00 for destinations in Europe, or UK# 3.50 (US$5.00) for destinations in the Rest of the World. Payment can be made by check payable to Musical Collectables, or by credit card (Access, Mastercard, VISA, or American Express). Send orders to: Musical Collectables The Old Vicarage Haley Hill Halifax HX3 6DR UK Telephone : +44 1422 323252 FAX : +44 1422 355604 Allow 28 days for delivery in the UK and 45 days overseas - and remember that most of their staff are probably disctracted by the requirements of running an internation festival for the next 4 weeks. There are several other collectables on thier sales list this year. More about that later if anyone is interested. Peter Zavon - on the road in Philadelphia Penfield, NY PZAVON@Delphi.com  1,, Summary-line: 27-Jul KenKrantz@aol.com #Who really wrote G&S Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12126; Sat, 27 Jul 96 23:10:00 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20424; Sat, 27 Jul 96 23:09:59 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA23921; Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:09:45 -0400 Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:09:45 -0400 Message-Id: <960727230808_371469440@emout14.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: KenKrantz@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Who really wrote G&S X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:09:45 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: KenKrantz@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Who really wrote G&S X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Several recent posts from different authors: > >Well, I have it good authority that W.S. Gilbert didn't actually > >write the words -- they were really written by Christopher Marlow. >> Gilbert is actually one of the "agents" for Queen Victoria who >> wrote numerous works and then acquired more suitable agents (or >> collaborators) as "authors" in which to publish these works. >> See "Queen Victoria's _Alice in Wonderland_" for more >> details. >> And now we know why she never knighted Gilbert. >But we've strayed off thread. Is Gilbert one person, or several >geniuses, collaborating under the same name? From: Ken Krantz Far be it from me to stifle free discussion on this topic but, really, the most appalling misinformation has crept into this thread. Just because Queen Victoria wrote the Alice books ("Lewis Carroll" is a transparently obvious play on the names of the beheaded monarchs Louis XVI and Charles I--How the insiders at Balmoral must have chuckled over their gentle sovereign writing about a bloodthirsty queen constantly ordering people's heads cut off!) is no proof that she wrote the Savoy libretti. The real author was George Bernard Shaw. Using a cover whose initials were an anagram of his own appealed to GBS' puckish wit, but he feared that it would prove too much of a clue to his identity. The barrister and sometime comic essayist WSG (whose nickname of Bab would have yield the initials BSG) was as close as he dared come, and thus it was that the bargain was struck by which Gilbert would be the front man for Shaw's libretti, enabling Shaw to maintain the pose of disinterested critic while at the same time writing the works that held the London stage most firmly during the era. Surely it can be no coincidence that during the period of the Savoy Operas' greatest prominence the prolific music critic Corno di Bassetto scarcely noticed them in print. After the deception had held firm for almost twenty years he finally felt secure enough to risk publishing his own review of one of "Gilbert's" works when Utopia, Ltd. premiered. We can understand his desire to puff his pseudonymous work when we consider the frustration he must have felt in having allowed his own name to be used as a front for the plays then being written by Winston Churchill. Churchill, as a young cavalry officer of noble blood with Tory political ambitions, could hardly sign his own name to the satirical and socialist-tinged plays he was writing at the time. Churchill's dramatic works began as a lark, but as he became increasingly prominent he could not risk exposure of his authorship of the "Shaw" plays. One could hardly expect the author of Major Barbara to reach the government bench in those days (at least as a Tory. It may be that his switch of parties in 1906 was prompted, to some degree, by the hope that in the more avant garde Liberal party he could reveal his sideline as a dramatist. If so, his authorship of the Shavian canon, by putting him in a position to be First Lord of the Admiralty at the outbreak of World War I, may have had far-reaching effects on the history of that conflict. This is a tantalizing thought, on which more research should be done, but for now we must be careful not to leave the realm of fact for that of mere speculation). Churchill and Shaw were thus locked into a sort of mutual blackmail throughout their long lives. With Churchill compelled to silence, and the connivance of the next two D'Oyly Carte generations, Shaw was able to maintain the secret of his authorship of the Savoy operas. The imminent expiration of the Sullivan copyright and resultant loss of artistic control of his secret works was undoubtedly a strain on him and may even have contributed to his untimely death in 1950, less than three weeks before the fiftieth anniversary of Sullivan's death. To the earlier post seeking significance in Victoria's failure to knight Gilbert I can only say "right idea, wrong queen." Surely it is remarkable that despite his legendary service to his nation Churchill was not knighted until 1953. Churchill must have taken at least some of the royal family into his confidence, and the prudent decision was taken to wait until Shaw was safely dead and could not embarass the statesman by raising an old literary scandal. At about the same time he received the rare (for a practicing politician) honor of the Nobel Literature Prize. One or more members of the Swedish Academy may have learned the secret. I am attempting to obtain the original of the proclamation honoring Sir Winston to confirm reports that, when held under ultra-violet light, it contains references in invisible ink to Pygmalion and Man and Superman. Incidentally, I referred to Sullivan earlier only because of his legal ownership of the copyright. I certainly do not intend to endorse the shopworn theory that the hymnist and oratorio writer Arthur Sullivan composed these gems of musical theatre. The real composer had suffered a fiasco with his first comic opera and waited more than fifty years before presenting another under his own name. The world knows how well he ultimately succeeded, but the world does not know (or at least didn't until now) that before daring to go public with Falstaff, Giuseppe Verdi spent almost twenty years building his skill and confidence in the genre of comic opera with a series of works under an assumed name. The use of English libretti and the established musician Sullivan as a front man made the chance of discovery all but nil. If you doubt me, consider the timing of Verdi's publicly acknowledged output. In the 21 years between 1850 and 1871 he premiered, not counting revisions, the 9 operas of his great middle period, running chronologically from Rigoletto to Aida. This prolific phrase stopped abruptly in 1871, the year of both Aida and Thespis (which I will concede for the sake of argument to have been written by the historical Gilbert and Sullivan, and which may have given Shaw and Verdi the idea of using the two of them). In the 25 years after 1871, the heyday of "Gilbert and Sullivan," he produced only Otello and Falstaff, plus the Requiem and smaller pieces. This long and productive portion of his life was primarily devoted to producing the Savoy Operas (named, incidentally, in honor of the royal House of Savoy, which achieved the unification of Italy Verdi had sought all of his life). The long run of Mikado (1885) gave him time to finish Otello for 1887, while he used the period of the carpet quarrel to finish Utopia, Ltd and Falstaff, both of which premiered in 1893. The carpet quarrel was itself an indication of how far the real Gilbert and Sullivan had come to live the parts they had been playing. Shaw and Verdi maintained the most cordial working relations while their couterparts staged periodic "creative" feuds to mislead the public. Verdi considered presenting The Grand Duke as his own in 1896, but he feared that the parody of German culture might be seen as a dig at the deceased Richard Wagner. Having a character named Dr. Tannhauser would have been a particularly heavy handed joke coming from the pen of Verdi. Also, the gimmick of Julia playing an English actress with a German troupe by speaking in a German accent just didn't work once the libretto had been translated into Italian, so he scrapped Boito's translation and let it come out in English under Sullivan's name. Sullivan respected Verdi's desire for secrecy but he was an honorable man. He may well have planned to wait until after Verdi's death to give him his just recognition but, by an actuarial freak accident, the 88 year old Verdi outlived the 58 year old Sullivan by a few months. A long distance artistic collaboration like that between Shaw and Verdi was difficult in those days. The early years, with comparatively long gaps of time between Trial and Sorcerer and Pinafore, were manageable, though only just, through use of confidential couriers. As the demand for new operas intensified a faster method was needed. The crisis came in 1879 when their front men travelled with Carte to New York for the open purpose of presenting an authentic Pinafore and the secret purpose of premiering Pirates. A cover story concerning Sullivan leaving the music back in England enabled them to stall for time while Verdi's ingenious young countryman Guglielmo Marconi perfected his prototype wireless fax machine. The precocious 5 year old had been inspired to his research by a passing reference to the telephone in Act 2 of Pinafore. The machine was completed just in time to get Shaw's and Verdi's revisions of Pirates to New York (and Paignton, where the primitive facilities of the provincial theatre gave Helen Lenoir no end of trouble with baud rates and parity bits) in time for the premiere. This invention (tragically lost and only rediscovered and put to commercial application in our time) permitted Shaw in England and Verdi in Italy to exchange drafts throughout the faster pace of production of the Eighties. As an in-joke, the sly Gilbert made a great fuss over having the vastly more primitive Bell telephone installed between his home and the theater while all the while a fax machine (primitive by our standards--it was powered by coal--but quite remarkable for its day) hummed away in a secret closet, providing him with "his" latest set of lyrics. This is the gist of what my research has yielded to date. There are a number of loose ends to tie up. For example, there is the revealing use of the code word "Rataplan" in both Cox and Box (1867) and La Forza del Destino (1862) and the trunkful of pseudo- Japanese music cut from the first draft of Mikado that Puccini found among Verdi's effects and used in Madame Butterfly. Unfortunately it will be some time before I can give these details the attention they deserve because other interests detain me. Summer is the prime season for paleontological digs and before the fall semester I must complete the field work for my forthcoming monograph proving once and for all the authenticity of Piltdown Man. Until then, long live the S&V operas.  1,, Summary-line: 1-Aug JaniceDals@aol.com #Re: 1997 Gilbert & Sullivan Festival Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06659; Thu, 1 Aug 96 23:45:30 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15086; Thu, 1 Aug 96 23:45:29 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA15949; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:45:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:45:11 -0400 Message-Id: <960801233801_169943680@emout14.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: JaniceDals@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 1997 Gilbert & Sullivan Festival X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:45:11 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: JaniceDals@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 1997 Gilbert & Sullivan Festival X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Dean, I have the feeling that you missed the point of my posting. We were discussing the problem of bringing a large cast, involved set, etc. production to the festival. Finances and the logistics of transporting people, set, and costumes result in few of these being shown. The answer seemed to be to send a videotaped "entry", that could be shown with others from similar groups, in some room daily during the festival. The Science Fiction and Fantasy conventions have been doing this for ages. There is no problem with boredom as the bored leave and new people come in. My son is a videographer who specializes in live theatre, particularly G&S, and even using only one camera, has done videos that the groups around here would be proud to show at the festival. Agreed, some groups have better technical resources ( links to cable television videographers, multi-cameras, good costumers and set designers), but we still enjoy watching how they staged their production, for creativity can (must!) be great where resources are scarce, Some of the International Costumers' Guild's videotape of their Masquerades (contests) are of poor video quality (when will they learn to use more light and not kill it with intense gels!), but we still watch them because they are the only record of the presentation of the most creative costumes around. I am often asked by directors putting on G&S for various schools around if I will loan them tapes of a G&S show, and I usually have 2 or 3 done in different ways by different groups. I just wish I had tapes of the youngsters performing in return! Tell us more about this videotape lender's library/ round robin. I've got some good ones and some average ones, and rare video records of some of our New England Gilbert and Sullivan Society's " Fantasy" and "Do-it-yourself Operetta" Meetings. Boring to some, of course, but fascinating to others. Sorry, verbosity must be catching. Janice Dallas JaniceDals@aol.com "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..."  1,, Summary-line: 7-Aug Peter Zavon/NY #Buxton Day 4 - Report Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25725; Wed, 7 Aug 96 19:37:47 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA19432; Wed, 7 Aug 96 19:37:47 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA05130; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 19:37:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 19:37:31 -0400 Message-Id: <960807233300_73317.3061_HHS33-1@CompuServe.COM> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Peter Zavon/NY <73317.3061@CompuServe.COM> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Buxton Day 4 - Report X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 19:37:31 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Peter Zavon/NY <73317.3061@CompuServe.COM> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Buxton Day 4 - Report X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The fourth day of the Festival at Buxton had variable weather. The morning was cool, almost cold, with low clouds and fog. It cleared later in the day, but had returned to light showers by the time I left the Festival Club. The day began with the departure at 8:30 of an all-day excursion to Stratford-upon-Avon. Not being a Shakespeare fan, I did not participate, but I understand about 10 people took the excursion this year. The weather may have effected the turnout. At 10 am, the Savoynet Coffee was held in the Palace Hotel. Some 15-20 people attended, including several soon-to-be 'Netters. Several other 'Netters were known to have had conflicting committments elsewhere. Don Smith will post the unofficial official list of attendees. The group began by sitting in a single circle; each introduced himself in turn. As in Philadelphia, conversations were quite varied. After about 20 minutes, Ian Smith suggested we break for coffee and tea. From that point the gathering continued as multiple, simultaneous conversations. All in all, this was a very successful gathering. At 11 am, the discussion on producing G&S in schools [Not From Scholastic Trammels Free] was held in an adjacent room. I did not attent, so others will have to report interesting specifics. VIDEO STATUS: In our last installment, we reported on the difficulties encountered in playing the Savoy Company's Patience. I am pleased to report that those difficulties were indeed the result of trying to play an S-VHS tape on a machine intended to play regular VHS. When the correct equipment was used, the videos were crisp and clear. Today the Western Australia "Trial Without Jury" and the Chester County "Pinafore" were shown. The quality of the tape was good enough that during Pinafore, people occasionally applauded at the end of numbers. In a TV viewing situation, this is most unusual in our culture, and suggests to me that not only was the basic performance very good, but the quality of the recording was also very high. In my opinion, the video quality was substantially improved over that of the last two years. My one critisism relates to the videography. The operator did closeups of soloists and small ensembles, but when a large group was on stage, he generally pulled back to try to include everyone within the frame. When more than half the stage was included in the frame, facial expression was just beyond the resolving power of the system. In most cases when the entire Chorus was on stage it was not possible to see facial features or even tell whose mouth was moving. Unfortunately, the operator did not do a close-up pan across the chorus during long choral or ensemble pieces. As a result, chorus members may not feel fully served by some of these tapes. However, the production as a whole IS well represented by the videos, and other issues can be addressed next time around. This evening the Sale G&S Company presented Patience. The performance was very well received. [Those of you who got the big souvenir program in Philadelphia might want to note that the part of Lady Jane was played by Elizabeth Sweet, a late substitution to the lists.] Tonight at the Festival Club a roving reporter from BBC Radio 1 was circulating, collecting sounds and interviews for use in a 5 minute spot which will be broadcast during their afternoon drive time show next Wednesday (August 14). BBC 1 is the nationwide service of the BBC, so we can hope for some additional publicity toward the end of the Festival. [Americans are unlikely to receive BBC1 unless they have a friend in the UK who can feed it via RealAudio or equivalent into the internet, or who can tape and mail the spot.] Tomorrow will be Joyce Wright's Coffee Morning and Master Class, The Rose Hill Musical Society in "The Gondoliers", and a Pot Luck Iolanthe in the Club. Peter Zavon Sleepless in Buxton 73317.3061@compuserve.com  1,, Summary-line: 12-Aug Johanna Bobrow #*grin* Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16955; Mon, 12 Aug 96 22:56:57 EDT Received: from DRAGONS-LAIR.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06359; Mon, 12 Aug 96 22:56:56 EDT Received: (from johanna@localhost) by dragons-lair.MIT.EDU (8.6.13/8.6.9) id WAA24766; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:56:55 -0400 From: Johanna Bobrow Message-Id: <199608130256.WAA24766@dragons-lair.MIT.EDU> To: gsp-discuss@MIT.EDU Subject: *grin* Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:56:55 EDT *** EOOH *** From: Johanna Bobrow To: gsp-discuss@MIT.EDU Subject: *grin* Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:56:55 EDT well, for marion's benefit, if no one else's, here's another major-general parody (especially for MIT nerds :) Sung to the tune of "A Modern Major-General" by Gilbert and Sullivan I've built a better model than the one at Data General For data bases vegetable, animal, and mineral My OS handles CPUs with multiplexed duality; My PL/1 compiler shows impressive functionality. My storage system's better than magnetic core polarity, You never have to bother checking out a bit for parity; There isn't any reason to install non-static floor matting; My disk drive has capacity for variable formatting. Chorus: His disk drive has capacity for variable formatting, His disk drive has capacity for variable formatting, His disk drive has capacity for variable format-formatting. I feel compelled to mention what I know to be a gloating point: There's lots of room in memory for variables floating-point, Which shows for input vegetable, animal, and mineral I've built a better model than the one at Data General. Cho: Which shows for input vegetable, animal, and mineral He's built a better model than the one at Data General. The IBM new home computer's nothing more than germinal; At Prime they still have trouble with an interactive terminal; While Tandy's done a lousy job with operations Boolean, At Wang the byte capacity's too small to fit a coolie in. Intel's mid-year finances are something of the trouble sort; The Timex Sinclar crashes when you implement a bubble sort. All DEC investors soon will find they haven't spent their money well; And need I even mention Nixdorf, Univac, or Honeywell? Cho: And need he even mention Nixdorf, Univac, or Honeywell? And need he even mention Nixdorf, Univac, or Honeywell? And need he even mention Nixdorf, Univac, or Honey-Honeywell? By striving to eliminate all source code that's repetitive I've brought my benchmark standings to results that are competitive. In short, for input vegetable, animal, and mineral I've built a better model than the one at Data General. Cho: In short for input vegetable, animal, and mineral He's built a better model than the one at Data General. In fact when I've a floppy of a maximum diameter, When I can call a subroutine of infinite parameter, When I can point to registers and keep their current map around, And when I can prevent the need for mystifying wraparound, When I can update record blocks with minimum of suffering, And when I can afford to use a hundred K for buffering, When I've performed a matrix sort and tested the addition rate, You'll marvel at the speed of my asynchronous transmission rate. Cho: You'll marvel at the speed of his asynchronous transmission rate, You'll marvel at the speed of his asynchronous transmission rate, You'll marvel at the speed of his asynchronous transmission-mission rate. Though all my better programs that self-reference recursively Have only been obtained through expert spying, done subversively, But still for input vegetable, animal, and mineral, I've built a better model than the one at Data General. Cho: But still for input vegetable, animal, and mineral, He's built a better model than the one at Data General.  1,, Summary-line: 15-Aug Kirschkins@aol.com #Musical Quotes Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20132; Thu, 15 Aug 96 11:39:32 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21712; Thu, 15 Aug 96 11:39:31 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA12628; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:39:17 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:39:17 -0400 Message-Id: <960815113747_179624815@emout10.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kirschkins@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Musical Quotes X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:39:17 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kirschkins@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Musical Quotes X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Buttercup's "A many years ago" is straight out of The Magic Flute: Papageno's lines just before he tries to hang himself. "Come friends who plow the sea" is The Anvil Chorus. "All hail great judge" is the horse and his rider chorus from Handel's Israel in Egypt. The Colonel's song is Figaro's Largo al Factotum from Rossini's the Barber of Seville. Iolanthe has elements of Weber's Oberon and Mendelssohn's A Midsummer Night's Dream. "Welcome to our hearts again, Iolanthe" is the Rhinedaughters in Das Rheingold. The entrance of the Peers is Entrance of the Guests from Wagner's Tannhaeuser, and Arac's Song is "A serpent at my bosom warm'd" from Handel's Saul. Non e niente di nuovo sotto il sole.--Ann Kirschner  1,, Summary-line: 17-Aug CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Conceptual musical motives Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28685; Sat, 17 Aug 96 18:04:50 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16866; Sat, 17 Aug 96 18:04:49 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA09914; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:04:45 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:04:45 -0400 Message-Id: <01I8E2X50WN696WAZ4@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Conceptual musical motives X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:04:45 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Conceptual musical motives X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum As a companion thread to Tom's recent one on musical characterization, I'd like to start the ball rolling on musical methods Sullivan used to establish overarching themes on inanimate concepts. The famous "Tower" motive in Yeomen is one, where Sullivan establishes from the outset, by outlining the major triad, a musical picture of the tower. This can be traced through the entire work as it evolves. "How say you, maiden" is only one of many examples. Another which recently struck me is a "justice" motive in Trial By Jury. Compare the Usher's melodic line at "Now jurymen, hear my advice" which later evolves into the melody for "All hail, great judge" (which is higher!). To digress slightly: has anyone noticed that the scale passages in "When jealous torments rack my soul" in Yeomen are featured prominently by Sullivan in the orchestral playoff of the Act I finale? After the chorus finishes its final note, the orchestra plays rushing scales which would inevitably recall Shadbolt's earlier song if it were retained - and this is immediately followed by jester music. This is probably another subtle touch by the composer in giving musical unity to the score, because among the confusion at the end of Act I we have two of the principal characters who are *most* confounded given full voice in this climax. Sullivan is perhaps giving us a forewarning as to two people who are not going to fare especially well at the end (if we assume Shadbolt and Pheobe are going to have an unsuccessful union). +--------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |P.O. Box 195A | are paramount." |College of the Holy Cross | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |1 College Street | |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 U.S.A.| |Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu| |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 19-Aug David A. Crumbly #RE: Pinafore Picture #00 Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26659; Mon, 19 Aug 96 17:13:10 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29211; Mon, 19 Aug 96 17:13:06 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA28865; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:13:03 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:13:03 -0400 Message-Id: <19960819.170532.7351.3.David_Crumbly@juno.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: david_crumbly@juno.com (David A. Crumbly) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Pinafore Picture #00 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:13:03 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: david_crumbly@juno.com (David A. Crumbly) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Pinafore Picture #00 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 TO MY YOUNG READERS I HAVE been asked to explain to you how it comes to pass that this, the story of a well-known Play, is now placed before you in the form of a Tale. In the first place, many very young ladies and gentlemen are never taken to the Theatre at all. It is supposed by certain careful Papas and Mamas that very young ladies and gentlemen should go to bed at an early hour, and that it is very bad for them to sit up as late as half past eleven or twelve o'clock at night. Of course, this difficulty could be overcome by taking them to Morning Performances, which are so called because they invariably take place in the afternoon; but there are drawbacks even to Morning Performances. Unless you are seated in the front row of the stalls (where the band is sure to be too loud), or in the front row of the dress circle (which is a long way off), the enjoyment of very young ladies and gentlemen is pretty nearly sure to be interfered with by the gigantic cart-wheel hats, decorated with huge bunches of wobbling feathers that ill-bred and selfish ladies clap upon their heads, nowadays, whenever they go to a theatre in the daytime. A third reason (and perhaps the best of them all) is that very young ladies and gentlemen find it rather difficult to follow the story of a play, much of which is told in songs set to beautiful music, and all of which is written in language which is better suited to their Papas and Mamas than to themselves. A fourth reason (but this is not such a good one as the other three) is that the Opera upon which this book is founded is, unhappily, not played in every town every night of the year. It should be, of course, but it is not, and it may very well happen that some poor people have to go so long as two or three years without having any opportunity of improving their minds by seeing it performed. When we get a National Theatre, at which all the best plays will be produced at the expense of the Public (who will also enjoy the privilege of paying to see the Plays after they have defrayed the cost of producing them), "Her Majesty's Ship Pinafore" will, no doubt, be played once or twice in every fortnight for ever; but as some years must elapse before this happy state of things can come to pass, and as those who are very young ladies and gentlemen now may be very middle-aged ladies and gentlemen then, it was thought that it would be a kind and considerate action to supply them at once with a story of the Play, so as not to subject them to the tantalizing annoyance of having to wait (possibly) many years before they have an opportunity of learning what it is all about. As I would not for the world deceive my young readers, I think it right to state that this story is entirely imaginary. It might very well have happened but, in point of fact, it never did. [Signed] W.S.Gilbert  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 20-Aug ddern@world.std.com (Dani #For the G&S mailing list... Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05330; Tue, 20 Aug 96 21:01:02 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01112; Tue, 20 Aug 96 21:01:01 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA04741; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:00:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:00:44 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960821005217.00c042f0@pop.delphi.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ddern@world.std.com (Daniel P Dern) (by way of Walt Howe ) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: For the G&S mailing list... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:00:44 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: ddern@world.std.com (Daniel P Dern) (by way of Walt Howe ) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: For the G&S mailing list... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) The irrepressible Daniel Dern asked me to pass this along to Savoynet (and to remind him how to resubscribe to the list): Walt ====================ddern begins===================================== "When You're Still On The Net..." by Daniel P. Dern Copyright (c) 1996 Daniel P. Dern [To the tune (not butchered as much as one might expect, although more than I think, and retaining as much rhyme, scansion and plot parallelism as possible, except where cheap shots took priority, especially if you take it even faster than the already-inhuman pace) of "When You're Lying Awake," from Act II of Gilbert & Sullivan's _Iolanthe_. If anyone ends up actually singing this, please send me a tape!] /-------------------------/ / / / For text, and a MIDI-playable version of the music, see / / . / / / / For a MIDI karaoke version (text and sound), see / / . Karoake / / player software & info can be found at the G&S MIDI Karoake Home / / page . / / / / For more about Gilbert & Sullivan in general, see the Gilbert and / / Sullivan Archive Home Page at / / (or try your favorite search engine using "gilbert and sullivan"). / / / / And for more Dern Internet/Unix song parody lyrics, try my overdue- / / for-updating Web site or my soon-to-be-nuked / / Gopher site .) / / / /------------------------/ {RECIT.} URLs, unresolv-ed, rob me of my life, Sites, unreferred sites, my Web browser encounters; Designs, graphic-rife, flow slowly down my pipe, And cache themselves on my disk in unsightly numbers. {SONG} When you're still on the net and you aren't done yet -- you've been searching the web for a night or three -- You probably wish you could use better clients to cruise instead of free betas of Netscape or MSIE. For your browser keeps crashing, your plug-in's are thrashing And the Winsock can't find your Win32s, And you've asked AltaVista to find Web sites in Worcestor * When your CSLIP line dies right from under you. [ * Pronounced "wiss-tuh" by its inhabitants. - DPD ] Then the RAM cache's congests and you feel like Wayne Gret- sky's shooting you from one link to another Or you get "404" error screens by the score, and "cookie expired"s from most others. Then your PointCast screen freezes, RealAudio sneezes, and your icons lose half of their pixels, Next your pointer disolves, DNS won't resolve and your avatar claims it has measles. Well, you manage to score a few files via Eudora, with BinHex 3 and Uuencoding Though you show concern at sections called WINMAIL.DAT which fill you with dismay and forboding. For you fear you've been given a "network computer" to access the Internet's sites with And it's something between a large adding machine and a TRS-80's that's diskless. And you're caught in a thread (Usenet somehow's not dead) with a troller and AOL users They're a clue-impaired bunch, and they post all through lunch and insist that they're not net-abusers. And logging back on your system, you find the sysadmin (who was hired that morning at seven) Has set all files to Root, and has tried to reboot the cafeteria's microwave oven. Well, your drivers are gone on your segment of LAN (now running IPng and frame relay), And your latency's more than your buffers can store -- while your apps cannot tolerate delay. Worse, this jitters the packets transporting voice traffic while the UPS tries to recycle, So you don your T-shirt (Vint Cerf's "IP o'er the Earth") and steal Steve Robert's high-tech bicycle. But Steve's gone adrift on his new micro-ship, broadcasting CU-SeeMe on the MBONE, Hawking ads on small web sites, "YOUR URL HERE FOR HALF PRICE~" and useful stuff they can order by net-phone. It's a scheme of investors to IPO "best of's" Internet ideas, schemes and inventions Which will make money fast (through the value won't last) (which some suspect are the founders' intentions). You get a few hackers to write code that crackers will find holes in faster than you can fix 'em But keep issuing betas which are free -- now -- but time out after you've got your hooks in. It's a virtual world index -- robot agents in Spandex -- harvesting full-text that is key-word searchable. Plus repurposed content, Java, frames, and links on it to robocams in Bill Gates' dirigible. The shares top one-eighty and all lots, they are taken by founders and VCs, And just after you get to purchase a few, their market share goes all to pieces, You're an Internet geek, been online for a week, and pizza crusts fill the hall, no one wants to call 'cause you've not had a bath for a month and a half, and your passwords won't work, Web chats won't let you lurk, your home page's on Mirsky, you're terribly thirsty, and your screen needs degaussing and your desk drawers de-mousing, and your boss says your progress's impounded by Congress, and your config files are long past restoring... But the whole net has crashed, and your work has been trashed, and your account's out of reach -- ditto this Dern pastiche -- but you'll be back -- with a Mac -- in the morning. - Daniel P. Dern, August 1996 "I care not who writes the Internet's protocols/ So long as I can keep writing snappy songs like this." ------ Daniel Dern (ddern@world.std.com, http://www.dern.com) Internet analyst, author, columnist & speaker (617) 969-7947 FAX: (617) 969-7949  1,, Summary-line: 27-Aug Peter Withey #Onward, Christian soldiers! Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14127; Tue, 27 Aug 96 17:11:06 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01207; Tue, 27 Aug 96 17:11:02 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA00550; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:10:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:10:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960827210223.006a853c@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Peter Withey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Onward, Christian soldiers! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:10:41 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Peter Withey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Onward, Christian soldiers! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) I hope this isn't too well known to other members of the Net, but it came to my notice when it was posted to UMRA (uk.media.radio.archers). The Archers for not UK Netters, is a long running (early 50's and still going) radio serial about "country folk". Why it should appear there, I know not. On Sat. 24 Aug. 96, Stephen Wilcox wrote: It was probably originally found on PIPORG-L, the list for organists: On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Gene Traas wrote: 1. Arthur Seymour Sullivan Worked out in his head How to keep us marching With a steady tread. Tonic first, then Dominant, That's the way it's done. Wrapped up in a chorus Sung by everyone (two, three, four) Onward, Christian soldiers! Hear the organ roar - Lest the congregation Reach the end before. 2. Starting off the second verse Never seems much fun. Ev'ryone's exhausted After number one. All they want's the chorus. That is very plain. Draw your diapasons, Egg them on again (pom, pom, pom) Onward, Christian soldiers . . . . 3. Now the verse is given en - tirely to the choir, Helped by Mrs. Mole, who Makes the high notes higher. Then the heavy breathing Starts up once again. Coughs and grunts and wheezes Preface the refrain (and then it's) Onward, Christian soldiers . . . . 4. In this verse the melody Hardly even starts, And we have an anthem By the inner parts, Juicily emerging Upwards to the sun. Come on, boys and basses, Show them how it's done (and you, too) Onward, Christian soldiers . . . 5. Onward, then, ye people, Join our happy throng. Soon the end is coming. Dinner can't be long. Down the aisle the sidesmen Toddle with the plate. We shall sing all this again At some future date (but meantime - ) Onward, Christian soldiers! This is where we show Poco rallentandos End in stereo. Hope this is of interest, regards, Pete. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Withey, | 'Pourtant,' said my interrogator, pointing to prw@globalnet.co.uk | the unhappy name 'SCHWENCK' on my gold-lettered Home phone: | bag, 'voila un nom allemand.' 0181 287 4332 | The Lady in the Plaid Shawl.....W.S.Gilbert.  1,, Summary-line: 29-Aug Ronald Orenstein #Peggy Ann Jones Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29307; Thu, 29 Aug 96 14:14:39 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26729; Thu, 29 Aug 96 14:14:37 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA24070; Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:14:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:14:30 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960829140606.36375922@inforamp.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ronald Orenstein To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Peggy Ann Jones X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:14:30 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ronald Orenstein To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Peggy Ann Jones X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) A while back Rica asked for Peggy's address. Well, I have it, but I didn't want to put it out on Savoynet without her permission. At any rate, we've had a letter or two back and forth, and I took the liberty of editing everyone's comments about Peggy and faxing them off to her (she is not on the internet). Well, I've just gotten off the phone to her, and she asked me if I would forward a letter from her to the list. Of course I agreed, so I will do that as soon as she faxes it to me (she said it would probably be a few days - she's directing The Mikado at the moment). In the meantime, she sends everyone her love and is delighted to let me post her address: Roy and Peggy Dixon (that's her married name) The Old Masons Pinfold Road Castle Bytham Lincs NG33 4RY United Kingdom telephone and fax: 44-1780-410940 (I guess that would be 01780-410940 if you are in the UK). So drop her a line - she'd love to hear from her friends from Philly and Buxton (and pretty much anywhere else, I'd imagine). -- Ronald I. Orenstein Phone: (905) 820-7886 (home) International Wildlife Coalition Fax/Modem: (905) 569-0116 (home) Home: 1825 Shady Creek Court Messages: (416) 368-4661 Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5L 3W2 Internet: ornstn@inforamp.net Office: 130 Adelaide Street W., Suite 1940 Toronto, Ontario Canada M5H 3P5  1,, Summary-line: 29-Aug dcraven@tradelaw.com #The U.S. Post Office and Gilbertian Logic Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04692; Thu, 29 Aug 96 17:00:25 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05149; Thu, 29 Aug 96 17:00:20 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA26275; Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:59:55 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:59:55 -0400 Message-Id: <199608292055.PAA13054@psycfrnd.interaccess.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "dcraven@tradelaw.com" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The U.S. Post Office and Gilbertian Logic X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:59:55 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "dcraven@tradelaw.com" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The U.S. Post Office and Gilbertian Logic X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Is it any wonder that it is difficult to write sharp comedy ala Gilbert in these modern times. The following conversation, which greatly resembles many of the dialogues in Mikado, was overheard while in line to mail a package. Background: The US Post Office has unilaterally imposed a one pound limit on any piece of mail sent without the use of a postage meter. All such mail must be taken to the post office and handed to a postal clerk... Postal Clerk: Well sir, obviously your package was over one pound and was not properly mailed. It should be returned to you. Man: Well I never got it back. Postal Clerk: How did you send it? Man: I used a priority mail package just like this one (waving a US Post Office produced envelope under the clerks nose) PC: That explains it. When we get something over one pound we put a sticker like this on the mail, informing you that it could not be mailed in a box. (Pulls our sticker). On priority mail the sticker goes here. As you see, it covers the return address. Since we can't read the return address, we can't return it to you. It therefore will be sent to the dead letter office. Sounds just like the perfect recipe for a G&S subplot, but as it is reality, it loses much of its punch...  1,, Summary-line: 30-Aug dcraven@tradelaw.com #G&S and Copyright Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25730; Fri, 30 Aug 96 11:45:24 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14817; Fri, 30 Aug 96 11:45:21 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA04642; Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:45:07 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:45:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199608301541.KAA06425@psycfrnd.interaccess.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "dcraven@tradelaw.com" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S and Copyright X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:45:07 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "dcraven@tradelaw.com" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S and Copyright X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 The US copyright office today issued a (27 page single space triple column) list of items which had lapsed into the public domaine in the US (and thus could be freely copied, for which Copyright is being restored due to the US signing an International Copyright convention. Under this convention, copyright owners could request the restoration of copyright as long as they also intended to defend the copyright. In fact, at least one book discussing G&S is on the list. The title appears to be Gilbert and Sullivan and the owner of the copyright is Michael Holroyd. (As the "owners" of the copyright, not the authors are the ones to whom the copyright has been restored it is sometimes difficult to tell, and some G&S editions might be on the list...) There are a number of other items on the list which may also be of interest.... G. Schirmer, for example, has requested that Copyright be restored on several pages of items including, for example, three diferent works on Romeo and Juliet, numerous symphonies and other works. A number of Robert Graves items were also on the list as are the "Biggles" books. The most interesting, however, is the restoration of copyright to the Estate of J.R.R. TOlkien for The Hobbit, The Fellowship of the RIng, the Two Towers and the Return of the King. As others on the net may recall, these works, due to a quirk in the law, were not under copyright in the US when first published and thus the statements on the front of the "authorized" edition from Tolkien urging his fans to only buy that edition. For a complete list, go to the following Web site. http://www.gpo.ucop.edu/cgi-bin/gpogate?waisdoc=1&4=frwais.access.gpo.gov;19 96_register/PDF/128271/3=3487962%20128271%20/diskb/wais/data/1996_register/f r30au96.dat.wais; (yes, I know that that is a very very long link.) The Copyright Office will eventually have a better way of searching this up on line.....  1,, Summary-line: 4-Sep CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Sullivan cylinder news Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16559; Wed, 4 Sep 96 15:47:22 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16125; Wed, 4 Sep 96 15:47:21 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA22032; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:46:49 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:46:49 -0400 Message-Id: <01I930ZLW8G29870WM@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan cylinder news X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:46:49 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan cylinder news X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum There have been recent developments concerning the famous early wax cylinder Sir Arthur recorded in England five days following the premiere of Yeomen. On October 5, 1888, Sullivan was among the guests at a dinner party hosted by Col. George Gouraud, Edison's English agent. The aural transcriptions which have thus far circulated are fragmentary. Sullivan said more than has heretofore been reported. In an article published this summer in Victrola and 78 Journal (Issue 9, Summer 1996), "Early Cylinders at the Edison National Historic Site" by Tim Gracyk, Jeery Fabris and Peter Dilg, some interesting developments have been disclosed, some of which was reported in the media last fall. There are 43 cylinders which were taken to the NYPL Rodgers and Hammerstein archives for making preservation copies on August 27, 1995. Among them were the Sullivan cylinder and one previously unknown one containing Edison's voice (recorded during the summer of 1888). In the past it had been stated that Sullivan's was the earliest extant cylinder from which sounds had been obtained and preserved. For some years there have been earlier examples available, including one by Alexander Graham Bell on an early graphophone cylinder from which fragments have been lifted. The news with the Edison cache includes not only this early Edison recording which predates known records of his voice, but also the fact that the previous Sullivan cylinder transcriptions have been incomplete. Gouraud's guests were Sullivan, Cecil Raikes (Her Majesty's Postmaster General), Edmund Yates, A. M. Broadley, J.C. Parkinson, Augustus Harris and H. de C. Hamilton. Gouraud and Raikes recorded speeches, and then followed one by Yates. The transcription made by Gouraud's secretary (of Yates's speech) survives in the Edison archives and goes as follows: "I next have the pleasure of introducing to you a name that is as familiar to you and all of our countrymen as it is, I am happy to say, to myself and my family ---Mr. Edmund Yates. [Yates speaking] "This is the record of a most marvellous dinner transmitted to you my your most marvellous invention. If I lack words to describe the dinner it is because I am so enrapt and enchanted by your invention that I find myself much more stupid than I ought to be after the grand excitement of our friend's meats and wine. Edmund Yates, --not Her Majesty's Postmaster General, but one who was a poor clerk under Her Majesty's Postmaster General for five and twenty years." [The Edison Archives 1888 transcript continues as follows] "We will now pass on to the next Phonogram which will begin with a record I am sure you will receive with infinte delight knowing your love of music. I need only say that the record will be the voice of the great composer, Sir Arthur Sullivan whose music is as well known in America as it is in England and as well loved by those who know it. Continuation of introduction of friends. Now listen to the voice of Sir Arthur Sullivan. [Sullivan speaking] Dear Mr. Edison, [The following section has not, to my knowledge, been made available to the public] If my friend, Edmund Yates, has been a little incoherent, it is in consequence of the excellent dinner and good wines that he has drunk; therefore I beg you excuse him. He has his lucid intervals. [Then follows the familiar text] For myself I can only say that I am astonished and somewhat terrified at the result's of this evening's experiments: astoonsihed at the wonderful power [sic] you have developed, and terrified at the thought that so much hideous and bad music may be put on record for ever, but all the same I think it is the most wonderful thing I have ever experienced and I congratulate you with all my heart on this wonderful discovery. Arthur Sullivan." +--------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |P.O. Box 195A | are paramount." |College of the Holy Cross | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |1 College Street | |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 U.S.A.| |Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu| |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------+  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 10-Sep Samuel M. Silvers #Re: Fach in G&S (was Re: (Contr)alto) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10360; Tue, 10 Sep 96 23:58:50 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12845; Tue, 10 Sep 96 23:58:42 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA07923; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:58:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:58:26 -0400 Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Samuel M. Silvers" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Fach in G&S (was Re: (Contr)alto) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:58:26 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Samuel M. Silvers" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Fach in G&S (was Re: (Contr)alto) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Lisa Berglund wrote: > This topic has cropped up a couple of times on "opera-l," where the list > of vocal types has included: high dramatic soprano, lyric soprano, > youthful dramatic soprano, soubrette, dramatic mezzo-soprano, lyric > mezzo-soprano, character alto, contralto, countertenor, heldentenor, > dramatic tenor, youthful dramatic tenor, lyric tenor, character tenor, Peter Shickele (sp?), the famous compiler of PDQ Bach, 21st son of J.S. Bach, has added certain categories such as mezzanine soprano, beri-beritone and bargain-counter tenor. As I remember it, the old joke is that a dramatic tenor has two testicles. A lyric tenor has one. A Heldentenor has two testicles, but he's stepping on them. Samuel Silvers--Member: Gilbert and Sullivan Society of NY Savoy Fare The Blue Hill Troupe, Ltd. Village Light Opera Group The Sunday Group  1,, Summary-line: 11-Sep DILLARDP@edu-suu-lifac.li #Bibliography for G&S Archive Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04825; Wed, 11 Sep 96 14:42:41 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16904; Wed, 11 Sep 96 14:42:38 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA16778; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:42:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:42:13 -0400 Message-Id: <45A5144AC5@edu-suu-lifac.li.suu.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bibliography for G&S Archive X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:42:13 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bibliography for G&S Archive X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Due to underwhelming demand to have a list of books about G&S in the Gilbert and Sullivan Archive, I have worked up the following list (lst draft, preliminary, working paper). This list (Part 1) is of books ABOUT G&S which are CURRENTLY IN PRINT. There are a surprising number of reprints among them...a lot of the golden oldies have come back among us. Part 2 -- if it ever gets done -- will list books about G&S which are out of print but may be available thru libraries, used-book stores, etc. Part 3 -- if any of us live that long-- will list books of works BY G&S. Your comments and suggestions are solicited and most welcome. Anything we should add? Any heartburn about any item(s) that you feel should be deleted? Any corrections? Any changes in the format? Should we have evaluative comments accompanying each title? Please forgive my act of shameless self aggrandizement in listing my own publications. What the hell-- they are in print! Comments and suggestions? Phil dillard@suu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Preliminary list of books for the Gilbert & Sullivan Archive PART 1: BOOKS CURRENTLY IN PRINT: Cellier, Francois Arsene and Cunningham Bridgeman. Gilbert and Sullivan and Their Operas; With Recollections an Anecdotes of D'Oyly Carte and Other Famous Savoyards. North Stratford, N.H.: Ayer Company Publishers, reprint 1972. 443 p. ISBN 0-405-08346-7 Dark, Sidney and Rowland Grey. W. S. Gilbert: His Life & Letters. North Stratford, N.H.: Ayer Company Publishers, reprint 1972. ISBN 0-405-08430-7 Darlington, William A. The World of Gilbert & Sullivan. North Stratford, N.H.: Ayer Company Publishers, 1977. 167 p. ISBN 0-8369-5573-0 Dillard, Philip H. How Quaint the Ways of Paradox; An Annotated Gilbert and Sullivan Bibliography. Lanham, MD.: Scarecrow Press, 1991. 208 p. ISBN 0-8108-2445-0 Dillard, Philip H. Sir Arthur Sullivan; A Resource Book. Lanham, MD.: Scarecrow Press, 1996. 428 p. ISBN 0-8108-3157-0 Dunhill, Thomas F. Sullivan's Comic Operas: A Critical Appreciation. New York: Da Capo Press, reprint 1981. 256 p. ISBN 0-306-76080-0 Dunn, George (compiler). A Gilbert & Sullivan Dictionary. New York: Da Capo Press, reprint 1971. 175 p. ISBN 0-306-70007-7 Eden, David. Gilbert & Sullivan: The Creative Conflict. Cranbury, N.J.: Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 1986. 224 p. ISBN 0-8386-3282-3 Ffinch, Michael. Gilbert & Sullivan. North Pomfret, VT: Trafalgar Square, 1993. 294 p. ISBN 0-297-81236-X Findon, Benjamin W. Sir Arthur Sullivan: His Life & Music. New York: AMS Press, reprint 1976. 214 p. ISBN 0-404-12913-7 Fischler, Alan. Modified Rapture: Comedy in W. S. Gilbert's Savoy Operas. Charlottesville, VA.: University Press of Virginia, 1991. 160 p. ISBN 0-8139-1334-9 Fitzgerald, S. J. Adair. The Story of the Savoy Opera in Gilbert & Sullivan Days. New York: Da Capo Press, reprint 1979. 239 p. ISBN 0-306-79543-4 Goldberg, Isaac. Sir William Gilbert. Gordon Press, reprint 1973. 156 p. ISBN 0-8490-2610-5 Goldberg, Isaac. Story of Gilbert & Sullivan. New York: Gordon Press, reprint 1972. ISBN 0-8490-1134-5 Goodman, Andrew. Gilbert and Sullivan at Law. Cranbury, N.J.: Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 1983. 246 p. ISBN 0-8386-3179-7 Goodman, Andrew. Gilbert and Sullivan's London. New York: Spellmount, 1988. 192 p. ISBN 0-946771-31-6 Hayter, Charles. Gilbert & Sullivan. (Modern Dramatists Series) New York: St. Martin's Press, 1991. 186 p. ISBN 0-333-40759-8 Hughes, Gervase. The Music of Arthur Sullivan. Westport, Conn.: Greenwood Publishing Group, reprint 1973. 180 p. ISBN 0-8371-6985-2 Jacobs, Arthur. Arthur Sullivan, A Victorian Musician (2nd ed.). Portland, Or.: Timber Press, 1992. 514 p. ISBN 0-931340-51-9 Jacobs, Arthur. Gilbert & Sullivan. Temecula, CA.: Reprint Services Corporation, reprint 1988. 64 p. ISBN 0-403-01596-0 James, Alan and Andrew Codd. Gilbert & Sullivan: The Illustated Lives of the Great Composers. New York: Omnibus Press, 1989. 240 p. ISBN 0-7119-1753-1 (pbk.) Lawrence, Arthur. Sir Arthur Sullivan. New York: Da Capo Press, 1980 reprint. 340 p. ISBN 0-8383-1522-4 Orel, Harold (ed.). Gilbert & Sullivan: Interviews & Recollections. Iowa: University of Iowa Press, 1995. 214 p. ISBN 0-87745-476-0 (pbk.) Pearson, Hesketh. Gilbert: His Life & Strife. Westport, Conn.: Greenwood Publishing Group, reprint 1978. 276 p. ISBN 0-313-20364-4 Pearson, Hesketh. Gilbert & Sullivan. North Stratford, N.H.: Ayer Company Publishers, reprint 1977. 317 p. ISBN 0-8369-6621-X (cloth), 0-89190-868-4 (pbk.) Stedman, Jane W. Gilbert Before Sullivan: Six Comic Plays. Ann Arbor, Mich.: Books on Demand, [reprint, no date supplied]. 270 p. ISBN 0-685-15528-5 Stedman, Jane W. W. S. Gilbert: A Classic Victorian & His Theatre. New York: Oxford University Press, 1996. 374 p. ISBN 0-19-816174-3 Taylor, Ian. How to Produce Concert Versions of Gilbert & Sullivan. Woodstock, N.Y.: Beekman Publishers, 1972. 249 p. ISBN 0-8464-0494-X Williamson, Audrey. Gilbert & Sullivan Opera. Boston: Marion Boyars Publishers, revised 1982. 292 p. ISBN 0-7145-2766-1 (cloth), 0-7146-2767-X (pbk.) Wilson, Fredric Woodbridge. An Introduction to the Gilbert and Sullivan Operas from the Collection in The Pierpont Morgan Library. New York: Dover Publications, 1990. 112 p. ISBN 0-486-26386-X (pbk.)  1,, Summary-line: 12-Sep rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu #New Book by Terence Rees Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06026; Thu, 12 Sep 96 23:00:04 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18309; Thu, 12 Sep 96 23:00:03 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA07299; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:59:59 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:59:59 -0400 Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Book by Terence Rees X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:59:59 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Book by Terence Rees X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 Gilbert & Sullivan/Victorian Theatre scholar Terence Rees has a new book out. Along with Dr. David Wilmore, Dr. Rees has edited _British Theatrical Patents: 1801-1900_ (London: The Society for Theatre Research, 1996), ISBN 0 85430 058 9, price unknown (to me). (The address of the Society is c/o The Theatre Museum, 1E Tavistock Street, Covent Garden, London WC2E 7PA.) This very interesting book is mainly a collection of phococopied entries from the British Patent Office, which is now a part of the British Library. The hundreds of entries cover everything from seating, ticket machines and crowd control devices for the front-of-house to lighting instruments, special effects, and even illusionists' secrets for the _other_ side of the proscenium arch. Gilbert & Sullivan enthusiasts will find 1895 patent #66657 of interest, for it describes "a double holder especially adapted for lamps for stage and like purposes," and is indexed to the Savoy Theatre; also of interest is the 1890 patent #16699, indexed to the Royal English Opera House, London: "Wire ropes attached to the scenery battens pass over central and side guide-pulleys, and are secured to rods carrying counterweights." *Ah, HA! So _that's_ how they changed all that scenery in _Ivanhoe_!* "Pepper's Ghost" and many adaptations of the principle (which--dare a magician reveal it?--lives on in Disney World) are described and illustrated, as are many other magical as well as common devices that made the Victorian theatre work. If you are interested in how to brace a flat or how to make an elephant turn somersaults or how to fly an airplane on a stage, this book will be a source of information--and delight. Dr. Rees, in addition to publishing the definitive book on _Thespis_, also wrote _Theatre Lighting in the Age of Gas_. According to the blurb in the book, he "saw his first theatrical performance at the age of nine and has never been the same since. It was that event which fixed once and for all his prime interest in the theatre: 'How is it done' rather than 'What is it about?'" Not for one sitting, _British Theatrical Patents: 1801-1900_ is an ideal book to dip into from time to time by people interested in the perspective from backstage and in the progenitors of our current technical equipment. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Ralph MacPhail, Jr. RMacPhai@Bridgewater.edu Area Code chgd on 7/15/95 to: (540) 828-5342 Box 114 Bridgewater College FAX: 828-5479 Bridgewater VA 22812-1599 USA HOME: 828-6656 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  1,, Summary-line: 13-Sep Lampliters@aol.com #Lamplighters' THE SORCERER set in late 1700s? Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01347; Fri, 13 Sep 96 16:31:15 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24982; Fri, 13 Sep 96 16:31:12 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA16338; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:30:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:30:38 -0400 Message-Id: <960913162741_307734177@emout19.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Lampliters@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Lamplighters' THE SORCERER set in late 1700s? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:30:38 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Lampliters@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Lamplighters' THE SORCERER set in late 1700s? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum At the first production meeting for SORCERER, we looked for ways to punch the production values of the show. For a maximum comic effect, a visual contrast between "upper" and "lower" class was needed. Melissa Wortman, the costume designer, went home and started to day dream. After looking through many books, the late 18th century kept leaping out to her. The upper and lower class silhouettes were significantly diffrent. The upper class men wore wigs as an affectation and women's wigs had grown to an enormous size. The biggest challenge was trying to find support for placing the character of John Wellington Wells in the 1700s. Wells could have practiced sorcery in the late 1700s.. In fact, at this point in time, European upper classes were often entertained by slight of hand magicians. A Professor Pinetti and Gustavus Katterfelto were two of the more noted magicians of this period. "Katterfelto wore an academic robe and a square black hat for his performance; Penetti dressed in court costume, silk stockingsm silver buckled shoes, close fitting satin kneebreeches, brocaded coat and powdered wig." Using the description of Katterfelto as a foundation, Wortman proceeded to costume Wells....and thus our show is set in late 18th Century... SETS: Although Gilbert specifies the stage setting as the exterior of Sir Marmaduke's mansion, the text makes few references to the exact location. Stephen Elspas decided on a garden setting with Marmaduke;s mansion looming over the festivities. Using three watercolors from the Victorian era as references, Elspas has designed the garden as old and full of curious rustic shapes and strange box topiary. And while the party is a happy time, we see elements of disapprival in the gargoyles and ominous statuary...They HINT at the magic that is to come....the audience expects a few surprizes from The Sorcerer and some special effects will be built into the scenery...( A Stone eagle - spread its wings, lion paws stretch out to claim Wells, flash pots etc..... THE SORCERER Lindland Theatre 175 Phelan Ave SF Week-ends Sept 29 - through October 27th BO # (415) 227-0331 $23, $19, $12....  1,, Summary-line: 19-Sep rmacphai@Bridgewater.edu #Re: Murgatroyd forenames [Esp. Ruthven] Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08166; Thu, 19 Sep 96 22:55:22 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11064; Thu, 19 Sep 96 22:55:21 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA28794; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:55:01 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:55:01 -0400 Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Murgatroyd forenames [Esp. Ruthven] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:55:01 -0400 Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Murgatroyd forenames [Esp. Ruthven] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 On Thu, 19 Sep 1996 TZS@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 96-09-19 16:11:01 EDT, you write: > > << I seem to recall of a Reuthven from some family association. As I recall > the > name is derived from the name, "Reuben". > >> > It's got something to do with vampires, but I don't remember exactly. > Kravetz to the rescue??? How about Rafe (with some help from Harry Benford and Jane Stedman)? Harry notes in his _Lexicon_ (2nd Edition) that Ruthven "is an old Scottish family name. . . . In 1566 William, fourth baron Ruthven, was involved in the murder of David Rizzio, Mary, Queen of Scots's secretary and suspected lover. Worse yet, in 1600 the Earl of Gowrie, whose family name was Ruthven, kidnapped James VI of Scotland. In retribution, the Scottish Parliament passed an act stating 'that the surname of Ruthven sall now and in all tyme cumming be extinguischit and aboleissit for euir.' The law was subsequently relaced for one branch of the clan. For further details see _Gowrie Conspiracy_ in _The Encyclopaedia Britannica_ . . . . "Ruthven was also the name of the vampire in Polidori's novel _The Vampyre_ (1819) and two derivatives: Planche and Nodier's play _The Vampire (1820), and Marschner's opera _Der Vampyr_ (1828)." So I think we can say that Ruthven had entered into stage convention by the mid-19th century as a villain's name. When Jane W. Stedman published Gilbert's play _A Sensation Novel_ (1871) in her collection of Gilbert's German Reed pieces called _Gilbert Before Sullivan_, many of us met, for the first time, Sir Ruthven Glenaloon, "the villain of the piece." Harry is silent on the name of Despard, but Gilbert Rose Maybud's ancestor was clearly Dame Cherry Maybud in Gilbert's precursor of _Ruddigore_, _Ages Ago_ (1869; also written for the German Reeds and also reprinted in _Giblert Before Sullivan_). Then of course there is Dick Dauntless, whose hame is right out of a nautical melodrama by Charles Dibdin. . . . Etc. . . . Rafe -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Ralph MacPhail, Jr. RMacPhai@Bridgewater.edu (540) 828-5342 Box 114 Bridgewater College FAX: 828-5479 Bridgewater VA 22812-1599 USA HOME: 828-6656 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  1,, Summary-line: 29-Sep StLicht@aol.com #Conversations with Asimov Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03936; Sun, 29 Sep 96 17:38:22 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01547; Sun, 29 Sep 96 17:38:21 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24224; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <960929173418_320236153@emout10.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: StLicht@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Conversations with Asimov X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: StLicht@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Conversations with Asimov X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Thank you, Laurie E. Verson and especially J. Derrick McClure, for your friendly welcoming remarks. This polite attention touches Heart of Duke and heart of Duchess! I was quite astounded myself at the similarity between Poor Wandering One and Traviata. Half-a-dozen-odd years ago, when I was a student at the University of Illinois, I misspent many happy hours of study time reading through Isaac Asimov's "Annotated Gilbert and Sullivan," (beginning to end) in the music library (reference section, couldn't check it out). I was delighted to find that Mr. Asimov's sense of humor and my own were so similar (though I certainly don't claim that my pathetic "Kelloggs" verse of the other day was in the same league as his brilliant parodies). As I read through it, I could not restrain myself from holding a running conversation with his footnotes, writing in my own little comments next to his (don't worry, I did it in very light pencil!). I wanted very much to send him a copy of my ruminations, but he very unfortunately upped and died before I had the chance. Being by nature a very Narcissus (I can't help it, I was born preening!), I transferred all my comments to my laptop computer, thence to my new desktop - and now I fear, in lieu of Isaac, you unfortunate souls will all be left holding the baby! Please don't feel any need to mollycoddle it. Speak roughly to my little file, delete it when it sneezes! And please do try to forgive me for my exhibitionism, I do it on (inner) compulsion. By the way, I haven't been able to find another copy of that book. I believe it's out of print. Damn! I'm hoping at least some of you on the List will have one, so you can figure out what I'm talking about. Hopefully enough of it will be sufficiently self-explanatory so that those of you without the book will occasionally be able to follow what I'm saying. Here and there, whenever possible, I've added a few explanatory comments to this posting. In my computer file, I differentiated my comments from Isaac's by putting his in italics, mine in boldface. Since that doesn't work for e-mail, I've enclosed my comments in << >> marks. (Paste begins here) What follows is a list of all the additional annotations I scribbled into the UIUC Music Library's copy of Isaac Asimov's Annotated Gilbert and Sullivan, so that in case I ever buy a copy, I can copy them in. Italic = Gilbert's or Asimov's text Boldface(d thing) = My comments Page 93: "Puling" is "whining" -- the weak complaining of a child. <> Page 245: To "carp" is to complain or to find fault with. <> Page 283: A paragon is a pattern of perfection. <> Page 293: I cannot tell. <> Page 462: Unlike the Lord Chancellor, Gilbert doesn't care how far he stretches professional license. <> Page 474: See Patience, note 95. <> Page 578: A "cock-and-a-bull" story is one that is nonsense, or a fantastic lie. Why? Nobody really knows. <> Page 637: To "teem" is to abound, to be stocked to overflowing. <> Page 658: "Derring-do" signifies deed of high risk and great valor and is probably a corruption of "daring to do." <> Page 670: From the context you might think that "mickle" means "useless," since Death cut him off; or that it means "few," because Death left him no time. However "mickle" means a "great many." Should it not be, then, "But his gallantries were mickle, though Death followed with his sickle"? No, I suppose it doesn't matter. <> (Note to Listers: Gilbert's words were "But his gallantries were mickle, for Death followed with his sickle." My proposed emendation is "For his gallantries were mickle, but Death followed with his sickle." Does anyone else agree that this would make more sense in the context?) Page 696: See Pirates of Penzance, note 90. This is equivalent to saying, here, "Make some witty remarks. Give us some one-liners." <> Page 710: See Patience, note 6. <> Page 728: "To carp" means "to complain petulantly" or "to find constant fault with." Gilbert uses it as a noun, so that he is saying F sharp "will remark in a sour, complaining way." <> Page 734: See The Mikado, note 18. <> Page 737: It may be so. I was highly wrought, Master Leonard, and I am but a girl,* and so, when I am highly wrought, I faint. <<*Princess Ida says this too! (See page 488)>> Page 748: See Ruddigore, note 169. <> (Listers: this one was Phoebe's verse: "'Tis but mickle sister reaps" in "When a wooer goes a-wooing") Page 765: Contadine are peasants, in this case, peasant girls. <> Page 778: Spain was built up out of a number of units which had been independent of one another after the shattering effect of the Moorish conquest in the eighth century had receded a bit, etc. <> Page 838: I present any lady whose conduct is shady* <<*See Utopia Limited, page 916 ("Each shady dame, whatever be her rank, is bowed out neatly").>> Page 870: He's attractive, Young and active, Each a little bit afraid is.* <<*Here's a "nostalgic whiff" from The Mikado, if you like! (See "Chorus of Girls," page 528)>> Page 871: Little heeding This proceeding,* They turn up their little noses. <<*See also Princess Ida, page 446: "Little heeding Their pretty pleading, Our love exceeding We'll justify!">> Page 876: To those of you who are Jewish, a teetotum is a Purim dreyd'l. <> Page 883: Oh, maiden, rich In Girton lore* <<*Reminiscent of Princess Ida, page 452: "Mighty maiden With a mission">> Page 884: I'm the eldest daughter of your king. / And we are her escort -- First Life Guards!* <<*See The Mikado, page 565: "I'm the Emperor of Japan -- And I'm his daughter-in-law elect!">> Page 885: Knightsbridge nursemaids -- serving fairies* <<*Yeomen, page 682: "Tower Warders under orders">> Page 889: Then pleasure merely masquerades As Regimental Duty! <> Page 898: Oh, joy unbounded!* <<*xwith wealth surrounded!" (Trial By Jury, page 83)>> Page 899: When Britain sounds the trump of war* <<*Iolanthe, page 396: "When Britain really ruled the waves">> Page 900: Yes -- yes -- yes --* <<*See Patience, page 283, and Princess Ida, page 501.>> Page 900: This is something that the Lord Chancellor in Iolanthe said he would never do. <<(Page 373, 1st verse)>> Page 902: Then mines of gold, of wealth untold, Successfully I've floated* <<*See Gondoliers, note 140.>> Page 916: Each shady dame,* whatever be her rank, is bowed out neatly. <<*Unlike the way the Duchess of Plaza-Toro does things! (See Gondoliers, page 838: "I present any lady whose conduct is shadyx and launch her in first-rate society")>> Page 923: Though if proper excuse you can trump any,* You may wind up a Limited Company, You cannot conveniently blow it up! <<*See also H.M.S. Pinafore, page 191: "Though foes we could thump any, We are scarcely fit company For a lady like you!">> Page 930: The totally inexpert (the "muffs") give up altogether and go to the nearest pub for a consolatory drink. <> Page 932: And when it is ripe, You'll then be a type* Of a capital English girl. <<*See Iolanthe, page 401, note 88.>> Page 936: And that is why you did not boil The author on the spot!* <<*Lady Sophy may not be Gilbert's usual spinsterish figure of fun (see page 869, note 33), but she certainly is endowed with the same strain of sadism that we find in Katisha and Dame Carruthers, among others! (Isaac forgot to say that, so I put it in for him. Incidentally, I hope you've been enjoying my little comments, assuming you've been reading this through from the beginning, as I have. My name, in case you're interested, is Steven Lichtenstein [M.M. '90, Vocal Coaching and Accompanying]).>> Page 937: See Patience, note 49. <> Page 938: What means this most unmannerly irruption?* <<*For some reason best known to himself, Gilbert reverted to iambic pentameter in the two following speeches, as in Princess Ida.>> Page 960: "Vernal" is "springlike." <> Page 963: See The Sorcerer, note 107. <> Page 963: See Utopia Limited, note 157. <> Page 964: By "fairy forms," the chorus is bitterly picturing their "beautiful bodies" hanged. <> Page 964: When you come to think of it, it's really devilish funny!* <<*"Teems with quiet fun!" (Phantis, page 873 and 875)>> Page 971: When one rubs against something, friction brings one to a halt more quickly than expected. For that reason "rub," as a noun, has come to mean anything that checks one's progress. "Fortune's rubs" are the misfortunes of circumstance that get in one's way. <<"Ay, there's the rub!">> Page 972: That both these maids may keep their troth, And never misfortune them befall, I'll hold 'em as trustee for both* -- Sing Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds, Spades and All! <<*Just as Captain Fitzbattleaxe did in Utopia, Limited (see page 892).>> Page 979: Even in their dreams of affluence this happy couple think only of mock turtle soup. Real turtle soup is beyond fantasy for them. <> Page 980: "Derry down derry" is a common set of nonsense syllables used in choruses of old songs. <> Page 988: "Diskiver" is substandard for "discover." This is forced on Gilbert by the exigencies of rhyme.* I can't help but think that a younger Gilbert would have avoided this. <<*See page 967: "When exigence of rhyme compels, Orthography foregoes her spellsx">> Page 1002: Your loyalty our Ducal heartstrings touches: Allow me to present your new Grand Duchess.* <<*See The Gondoliers, page 833: "This polite attention touches Heart of Duke and heart of Duchess.">> Page 1002: Again, Athens is mentioned as the epitome of Greece, and with it we come to a song which, except for the "receipt of that popular mystery" in Patience, is hardest on the annotator. It produces a "tear and long-drawn sigh" to have to face this song so late in the book. <> Page 1010: Then softly, slyly, snaily, snaky -- Crawly, creepy, quaily, quaky --* <<*Sounds like the ghosts in Ruddigore (page 651)!>> Page 1011: And then, alas, Too late -- too late! I find she is -- your Aunt!* <<*See Iolanthe, page 378: "Attend to me kindly, This lady's -- my Mother!">> Page 1015: Is this Court Mourning or a Fancy Ball?* <<*Gondoliers, page 823: "Good evening. Fancy ball?">> Page 1016: A "civil death" is one that is only declared by laws and is not biological. It is a legal fiction, if you prefer. <<(Page 968, note 55)>> Page 1018: Julia sounds like Scarlett O'Hara -- or Little Orphan Annie. <> (Listers: the reference here was the "Tomorrow" aria in "The Grand Duke") Page 1021: That stern supernatural diction Should act as a solemn restriction, Although by a mere legal fiction A voice from the tomb!* <<*See The Pirates of Penzance, page 238: "If I hadn't, in elegant diction, Indulged in an innocent fiction">> Page 1024: Pommery is a kind of champagne, and the one referred to is of the vintage of 1874. <> Page 1024: Tho' it's Pommery seventy-four!* (final line of stanza) <<*Isaac got the two verses mixed up here. This verse should have come first, before the "sandwich and cut-orange ball." Those sandwiches, by the way, must have been even more anachronistic at the time than note 164 suggests!>> (Listers: Ha! I'd forgotten that I ran across this problem once before!) Page 1029: 'Old yerself up -- you ain't carryin' sandwich boards now.* <<*Sure are a lot of sandwiches in this show!>> Page 1031: Nothing is more annoying than to feel that you're not equal to the intellectual pressure of the conversation.* <<*The Grand Inquisitor in The Gondoliers would have sympathized with Ludwig (see page 824: "I'm afraid I'm not quite equal to the intellectual pressure of the conversation.").>>  1,, Summary-line: 2-Oct CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #A Yeomen query Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06031; Wed, 2 Oct 96 16:41:05 EDT Received: from [147.138.10.20] by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16324; Wed, 2 Oct 96 16:41:02 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10904; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <01IA68XVB4SY98C9YZ@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A Yeomen query X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A Yeomen query X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The question about the meter changes in "When maiden sighs" is a good one, and part of the problem is that Sullivan wasn't terribly explicit about it in the score. However, I believe D'OC got it right in their recent recordings. One reason Sullivan was *not* more explicit about it (probably the main reason) was that he was loathe to give too much restriction to soloists. He rarely indicated dynamics for them, especially in the earlier operas, although as he went on he learned he needed to be more explicit when writing recitatives (as to rhythm) and also tended to indicate more dynamics. In this particular instance (referring to the G. Schirmer score) he does show us what he wants in the fourth measure before B, where he writes "meno mosso" (less motion - i.e., slower). This refers not to the rapidity of the individual notes themselves, but to the pulse of the quarter note in the measure. The tempo is "Allegretto non troppo" (A little fast, but not too much). The metronome marking in this score is not, as far as I know, anything Sullivan left us (there are no metronome marks in the early Chappell scores), but I think the editor is pretty much directly on in this case. The "allegretto" refers to the 1/8th note movement (the bouncing accompaniment). This bouncing accompaniment occurs while Phoebe is spinning. The violas tell us when she stops. The asides she makes are in the "meno mosso" passages. If you slow down the *quarter note* movement in these places, because Sullivan is now writing in eighths and sixteenths - *those* notes are still moving somewhat faster than the previous eighth notes and quarter notes. This must happen unless you cut the tempo down by *more than half*, which would then make the meno mosso passages ridiculously slow. After Sullivan showed us the first meno mosso and the first "a tempo" which restores the original pulse, he assumes that the conductor will realize this happens again in all similar passages. Those are: meno mosso - 3 bars before the first ending a tempo - downbeat of the first ending meno mosso - 5 after C a tempo - 7 after C (note the "colla voce" in the next bar) All this requires very careful explanation to the orchestra, and it's not a bad idea to write all these repeated meno mossos and a tempos in their parts beforehand. Sullivan wrote in his diary as to how difficult the first Yeomen band rehearsal had been ("very heavy work"was his comment - "couldn't get through it all"). I suspect that after the violin "brilliante" passages in the overture and the other problems in that movement, the orchestra was probably flustered when it came to executing the eccentricities in the opening movement of Act I. Sullivan is not supposed to have been the most superb conductor, and he may very well not have anticipated the kinds of problems he wrote for them in this aria. And these were only the first two movements... +--------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |P.O. Box 195A | are paramount." |College of the Holy Cross | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |1 College Street | |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 U.S.A.| |Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu| |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 8-Oct Marc Shepherd #THE RUDDIGORE DICHOTOMY Reviewed Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13709; Tue, 8 Oct 96 22:30:57 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18703; Tue, 8 Oct 96 22:30:55 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05842; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <325B0CC7.381C@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: THE RUDDIGORE DICHOTOMY Reviewed X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: THE RUDDIGORE DICHOTOMY Reviewed X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) I've just finished reading Savoynetter Mike Nash's science fiction novel, THE RUDDIGORE DICHOTOMY. I zipped through it in just a few days. G&S fans one and all will find it thoroughly enjoyable. You don't have to be a science fiction fan, either. The opera RUDDIGORE's plot, it will be recalled, is resolved when Sir Ruthven discovers the paradox that a bad baronet of Ruddigore's refusal to commit a crime is tantamount to suicide, which is a crime in itself. THE RUDDIGORE DICHOTOMY concerns a trio of scientists at the University of York who discover that this paradox has ripped a series of holes in the time/ space continuum with the death of every Baronet of Ruddigore from 1608 to the present. To repair these holes, the pro- tagonists conclude that they must travel back in time to Sir Rupert Murgatroyd's day and prevent the witch's curse from ever being uttered in the first place. What follows is a series of adventures worthy of Indiana Jones. As in the old movie serials, each chapter brings a temporary resolution, only to end in suspense as the plot is thrown into an even greater state of confusion. Have no doubt: after each chapter, you will *want* to read on. It must be frankly admitted that the dialogue is a bit cartoonish, though perhaps this is exactly the effect that Mike intended. There's no time here for deep character studies--the protagonists are on a whirlwind tour through four centuries of time, and they've hardly a moment to consider the consequences of their actions, nearly all of which give rise to a welter of unintended complications. Through the story you'll meet up with a number of G&S characters, both expected and otherwise, but I'll not spoil the story by revealing which ones. The book has a blockbuster surprise ending that would be the envy of any science fiction author. The writing style reminded me of the late Isaac Asimov, who I believe would have been proud of the book. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you contact Mike Nash (m.nash@mail.internexus.co.uk) and arrange for him to send you a copy. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: shepherd@schubert.sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Summary-line: 13-Oct Arthur Robinson #Re: Bradley Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14935; Sun, 13 Oct 96 14:23:05 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB03066; Sun, 13 Oct 96 14:23:04 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26055; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Bradley X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Bradley X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Watt Tokyo wrote: > If Marc Shepherd or other well-informed folk were willing to note down some > of the errors, omissions etc they have noticed in the revised Bradley, this > would be a great gift to the rest of us on the net. I know it is asking a > lot. Andrew Watt > watinter@gol.com tokyo > Well, you asked for it. Here are my corrections, comments, etc. on Ian Bradley's "Complete Annotated Gilbert and Sullivan"--at least the first installment of them. The page numbers are from Bradley, so these won't make much sense if you don't have the book yet. Also I should mention: (1) I haven't read the whole book--I've read the notes for the two new operas, and checked my annotations to Bradley's annotations from the earlier 2-volume edition (no, I did NOT make them in a library book)--many of the previous errors have been corrected. (2) Yes, I know a lot of these are nit-picky; I can't help it--I used to be a teacher. Most of these are clearly typos; Mr. Bradley (Dr. Bradley? Rev. Bradley?) has performed a monumental task of scholarship, giving us many Gilbert lyrics that have never been in print before--as well as many entertaining comments. Others will probably want to add their own corrections; also I welcome corrections to my corrections (we are but fallible mortals, except for some of the characters in Iolanthe and Thespis, who are fallible immortals). These corrections are for the annotations; I have only noted one error in the actual text (p. 1193, The Grand Duke Act II line 788: "shatter" should be "scatter")--but then I've been reading the annotations more than the plays themselves. SORCERER: p. 84, note on line 84: for "Rose Maybud" read "Ruth." PINAFORE: p. 158 line 86: for "a piece of cloth" read "a piece of new cloth" (according to my Bible). p. 170: for "At the Drop of a Hat" read "At the Drop of Another Hat." (Incidentally I think "He Is an Englishman" and the other "nationalistic" songs Bradley cites are tongue-in-cheek, as the Flanders and Swann song obviously is; Ian Bradley seems to take it literally--but I may be misinterpreting him.) PIRATES: p. 200 bottom of page: Gilbert was not 46 when he wrote "The Pirates"--he was 43 when it was produced (at least, he might very well have passed for it in the dusk with a light behind him). p. 212: for "Nanki-Poo" read "Ko-Ko." p. 240: In "Our Island Home" the Pirate Chief doesn't avoid killing his parents "by working out" a time discrepancy; another character, Arthur Cecil (actually the name of the actor playing the character), works it out for him. PATIENCE: p. 346 note on line 498: Francesca di Riimini: should be "da Rimini" (Bradley gets it right immediately afterwards, so it's clearly just another typo). p. 350 note on line 587: The recitative is sung by the Colonel, not the Duke, as the lyrics--and Bradley's note--make clear. IOLANTHE: p. 428, note on line 307: Gilbert's poem appeared in Punch in October 1865, not 1864. PRINCESS IDA: p. 456 note on line 46: Cyril's line is "He is an old, old man" (Bradley omits an "old"). RUDDIGORE: p. 678: A line seems to be omitted in the parody quoted (between the lines "As Gilbert--he's proved it before" and "The defects of his shady Act Two"), presumably ending with a rhyme for "case." p. 720 line 96: just my opinion, but I don't think the Major-General waves his Union Jack "defiantly" at teh end of Act I of "Pirates." p. 734: "And vote black and white..." should be "black OR white." UTOPIA LIMITED p. 1048 line 132: in the chorus, "For at right time" should be "For at night time" (see John Wolfson's "Final Curtain," p. 192, where the lyric appears). p. 1078, middle of page: "I have not been able..." The lyric Ian Bradley couldn't find is also in Wolfson, p. 204. GRAND DUKE p. 1098: I thought H.M.S. Pinafore ran for 700 performances--but I guess it depends on how you count an opening run. p. 1136 bottom: for "Keith Sandford" read "Kenneth Sandford." p. 1140 bottom: "ALL" misplaced--Julia sings the lines "A maxim new I do not start," and "ALL" sing "Oh, that's the matter!" Now, some miscellaneous (and pedantic) addenda (I suspect Harry Benford's lexicon covers many of these but I don't have it): p. 304 line 631: "Daphnephoric"--like Martyn Green, Bradley assumes this refers to the myth of Daphne; but "daphnephoros" is a Greek work meaning "bay-bearing," which is appropriate for the way the aesthetic maidens are usually decked out for the finale. p. 482 line 79: Bradley is correct, but more to the point here, Minerva is also the goddess of wisdom ("Oh goddess wise..."), and a patroness of education as well as the arts in general. p. 1146 line 1122: "tollollish" is cited in the Oxford English Dictionary; it comes from "tol-lol" ("tolerable," a word also found in The Grand Duke Act II line 592) as presumably does "Tolloller," so the peer's name and this adjective are both derived from the same word, not the latter from the former. p. 1150 line 24: I think someone else has commented on this. Gilbert probably misspelled an actual Greek word, "diegerticon." p. 1152 line 42: Bradley's guess is correct; for confirmation see Suetonius (a Roman author who would be bowdlerized at Castle Adamant), "Augustus" 87.1. Now, some conjectures regarding the unpublished Gilbert lyrics, where I think the lyrics as Bradley has them are incorrect (because of rhyme, metre, or sense); I welcome any refutations of these. p. 58, Lady Sangazure's ballad: "I treasured it within my heart" (I suspect this should be "breast" to rhyme with "guessed"; it was probably confused because "heart" appears in the same place in the second verse--there's a scholarly term for this sort of textual error, which I've forgotten. But tush! I am puling). p. 162, extension of Josephine's scena: "And so judicious in his observation": I suspect this should be "observations" to rhyme with "relations." p. 214 line 416: for "And prentice" read "Any prentice" (just a guess, but this both scans better and makes more sense). p. 226: I suspect "lightning" should be "lighting" (to rhyme with "plighting"). p. 236: "Man has birthday once a year" should probably be "Man has a birthday once a year" (again, it scans better). p. 246: MABEL. "Distraction! Frederic! loved me!": should probably be "loved one." On the same page, two lines seem to be missing, to rhyme with "But if with that great conqueror/ That somebody arrived." p. 280 bottom: "A downight crime is simple shoddy": I suspect the "is" should be "in" (I've seen this lyric elsewhere--in an article by Jane Stedman maybe?). p. 302 lines 616-622: when Patience and Grosvenor sing together, presumably he should sing "Though she treats ME with derision, I shall love her just the same" (not "Though she treats him"). p. 350 near bottom: "Until we have recognized society": changing "recognized" to "reorganized" again scans better and makes more sense. p. 462 line 164: "Let us hail sons of Gama": "Let us hail THE sons of Gama" scans better. p. 504 (near bottom): "Don't pause a while": probably should be "Don't change a whit" (to rhyme with "it"). p. 730: Sir Roderic's line "Pray believe that I said what I meant" should be "Pray believe that what I said I meant" to rhyme with "impediment." I have seen this verse quoted elsewhere with "said I meant" (I believe in an old G&S Journal). Same page: I assume that the chorus is again addressing Sir Ruthven as a "wailer"; the line Bradley has--"Sniffler, snuffler, waiter, weeper"--might have been spoken by someone who's been getting poor service in a restaurant, but the ghosts presumably are not in that position. p. 922: in the earlier version of Giuseppe's song, "If we've nothing in particular to do" doesn't scan (as it does in the current version); I think--mind, I THINK--this should be "If we've nothing much to do." p. 1014 line 877: "Gets set": makes better sense at "Get set." There are a few other places I suspect errors, but haven't been able to check on them. If anyone knows Ian Bradley's address I may try to send him a revised version of this (along with a fan letter--despite my quibblings and scribblings, his book is one of THE essential works for any G&S scholar or fan). (Or I could try sending it to Oxford University Press, but I've been trying since 1992 to get from them--at least their American sales people--a book for which they cashed my check.) Again, I highly recommend his book--without which the above will make no sense. One final note: on p. 1128 Bradley comments that Gilbert, according to his manuscript notebooks, originally intended to set the action of The Grand Duke "in the 1580s (13 September 1584 to be exact according to one note and for those who are really into the minutiae)." TRIVIA TIME! What is significant about the date 13 September 1584? (Hint: it appears in, and is crucial to the plot of, an earlier Gilbert play.) Arthur Robinson  1,, Summary-line: 14-Oct Sternenberg, Philip #September 13, 1584 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17626; Tue, 15 Oct 96 07:29:04 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14606; Mon, 14 Oct 96 14:05:26 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA06681; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <32628CD0@ms-mail-gate.hac.vlt.eds.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: September 13, 1584 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: September 13, 1584 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 >What is significant about the date 13 September 1584? (Hint: it >appears in, and is crucial to the plot of, an earlier Gilbert play.) > >Arthur Robinson I love the facetious answers, but here's the real one: In THE GENTLEMAN IN BLACK (music, now lost, by Frederic Clay), the title character, aka the King of the Gnomes, arranges for the souls of peasant Hans Gopp and the ugly Baron Otto von Schlachenstein to exchange bodies for a month. The date of the initial exchange is August 13, 1584. Otto grows weary of the peasant's life, though, and halfway through the month falsely convinces Hans that the two of them were exchanged in infancy. They sign a document to attest to this. Otto plans to live as a baron (but in Hans's body) until September 13, right before which he'll destroy the document. Then he'll be a baron again in his own body. But a sudden announcement is made on September 3. Because of calendar irregularities (not explained further by Gilbert, but it's the necessity to make years ending in 00 non-Leap Years unless they're divisible by 400), the date has suddenly advanced from September 3 (Old Style or Julian Calendar) to September 13 (New Style or Gregorian Calendar). The contract between Hans and Otto expires not a month after its commencement but rather on September 13. Hence Hans and Otto are immediately returned to their proper bodies before Otto can destroy the infant-exchange document, and Hans uses it to make himself a handsome, young, and rich baron. The libretto errs a bit in the revelation: "It is hereby enacted, that from this day forward, 13 days be omitted from the calendar, whereby this 3rd day of September under the Old Style becomes the 13th day of September under the New Style." Only 10 days have been omitted. This inconsistency pops up in a couple of other places as well, but in performance this could easily be corrected. The apparent absurdity of the infant exchange is explained away so beautifully that one could use it to justify how Ralph and Corcoran could or could not be the same age: HANS: But I think you must be mistaken, for you are 20 years older than I am. OTTO: I am NOW -- but when I was 3 weeks old, of course I was the same age as you were when you were 3 weeks old. . . . You see I am naturally quicker than you are -- besides, I'm ashamed to say I've lived a very fast life. I believe G IN B was written in 1871. Had it been written much later, one might think that Gilbert was satirizing himself, especially in the denouement. As it is, G IN B makes February 29 and all of the other G&S time absurdities pale in comparison. Believe it or not, Gilbert actually seemed to learn some self-restraint over the years, and Sullivan probably contributed to this. Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@hkvltpo1.hkvlt001.hac.vlt.eds.com  1,, Summary-line: 15-Oct Sternenberg, Philip #Re: LP Speeds (somewhat forced relevancy to G&S) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29009; Tue, 15 Oct 96 13:35:36 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00202; Tue, 15 Oct 96 13:35:33 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA21414; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3263F476@ms-mail-gate.hac.vlt.eds.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: LP Speeds (somewhat forced relevancy to G&S) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: LP Speeds (somewhat forced relevancy to G&S) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Congratulations to Neil Midkiff for a correct and informative answer. I'll give you my own, but it doesn't dispute anything Neil said. The "pleasing" musical intervals all have simple approximate ratios of frequencies, which anyone who remembers DONALD IN MATHEMAGICLAND will recognize: Octave -- 1:2 Fifth -- 2:3 Fourth -- 3:4 Major third -- 4:5 Minor third -- 5:6 I've put the lower frequencies first, but these may all be reversed. Playing a record at the wrong speed affects the pitch frequencies proportionately. Playing an LP at 45 RPM changes the frequencies in a 33.33:45 ratio, which is about 3:4. Hence each pitch goes up a fourth (actually slightly over, but the naked ear would be hard pressed to detect this), and a song in C would be transposed to F. The exact frequency ratio (higher pitch first) is the 12th root of 2 to the nth power, or 2 to the power n/12 (it doesn't matter whether the power is done before or after the root), where n is the number of half steps in the interval. For an octave, which is 12 half steps, this works out to 2. The exact ratio of F down to C is the 12th root of 32, or 2 to the power 5/12, which is about 1.3348 and just slightly over the 1.3333 to which 4:3 works out. Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@hkvltpo1.hkvlt001.hac.vlt.eds.com  1,, Summary-line: 16-Oct Sternenberg, Philip #RE: Musical intervals Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28774; Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:13:38 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23902; Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:13:35 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05809; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <32654011@ms-mail-gate.hac.vlt.eds.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Musical intervals X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Musical intervals X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Larry Seiler posted this to me privately, but I think it could be of general interest, especially since it shows he may know something that I don't: ---------- From: seiler To: PHILIP Subject: Musical intervals Date: Tuesday, October 15, 1996 15:01 Hello, I'm new to Savoynet and I have a question on your posting that I thought I'd take off-line: >The "pleasing" musical intervals all have simple approximate ratios of > frequencies, which anyone who remembers DONALD IN MATHEMAGICLAND will > recognize... > The exact frequency ratio (higher pitch first) is the 12th root of 2 to > the nth power, or 2 to the power n/12... I'm surprized. What I was taught (so long ago that I cannot recall the authority) is that the "simple" ratios ARE the original correct intervals, and that the 12th root frequency ratios are an approximation that was developed to make it possible to tune a piano (etc.) so that has the same relative intervals in any key. This, I was told, is called "well tempered" tuning, as opposed to the older, more fundamental tuning based on natural intervals (whose name I've forgotten). Is there any truth to this? Sure, we all use well tempered intervals now, since there's nearly always a keyboard instrument somewhere. But in the days when many instruments were only played in one key (e.g. pre-pedal harps), I would be very surprized if people didn't simply tune based on the natural intervals -- though I don't supposed most instruments were tuned well enough for the difference between 1.3348 and 1.3333 to be detectable. Enjoy, Larry _________________________________ In answer to your question -- I don't know. Actually, the 12th root math is something I figured out myself a long time ago with no help except for previous knowledge of the "simple" ratios. What you say makes sense for single-key instruments and, if true, has taught me something. I imagine that the frequencies for "simple" ratios would come out like this for whatever value of N gives the correct frequency for C: C -- 180N Eb -- 216N (so Eb:C = 6:5) E -- 225N (so E:C = 5:4) F -- 240N (so F:C = 4:3) G -- 270N (so G:C = 3:2, G:Eb = 5:4, and G:E = 6:5) A -- 300N (so A:E = 4:3, A:F = 5:4, and C':A = 6:5) Bb -- 320N (so Bb:F = 4:3) or 324N (so Bb:Eb = 3:2 and Bb:G = 6:5) C' -- 360N (so C':C = 2:1) As you see, we get a conflict with Bb, and similar conflicts would arise with the pitches I didn't list. After a violinist once told me that, to her, A# and Bb are NOT the same thing, I came to realize that not all instruments are as cut-and-dried as those that have a keyboard. (Aside to any of my former algebra students who may be lurking: I got the above values to be integers by using a form of Least Common Multiple. See, I TOLD you that stuff might be useful someday! So there!) Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@hkvltpo1.hkvlt001.hac.vlt.eds.com  1,, Summary-line: 16-Oct CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.ed #Re: Musical intervals Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07560; Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:52:20 EDT Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00927; Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:52:17 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06451; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <01IAPNGNB2768Y6IL8@hcacad.holycross.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Musical intervals X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: CHOIR@hcacad.holycross.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Musical intervals X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum This will be an attempt to explain the difference in temperments in lay terms - I hope, in the process, it doesn't get bowdlerized... The purely acoustical temperment was that used until the development of harmony, during the musical baroque era (ca. 1600 - 1750), rendered it impractical for modulating from one major or minor key to another (going to distantly related keys under such a system caused all kinds of wild things to happen). Thus we saw J.S. Bach advocate a system of equal temperment which permitted modulations to any key. Some historic pipe organs today are tuned to mean temperment, or a variant thereof, so as to duplicate as closely as possible the sound of the music as it was rendered prior to equal temperment days, and early music specialists on other instruments (and voice) do the same. Even in modern orchestras, when piano or other keyboard instrument are used in the ensemble, it sometimes gets very hairy intonation-wise because string and wind players tend to make adjustments on certain intervals which are more natural sounding than in equal temperment; and keyboard players, of course, cannot adjust the pitch in any direction while they are playing (unless it's a prepared piano, and that's a whole other ball of wax). Some interesting studies have recently been done which tend to confirm a gut feeling many have concerning 20th century-type dissonances, particular 12-tone serial compositions. The public has, to an overwhelming extent, rejected much (most?) of this music. It now appears there is a biological reason for this - human beings tend to like certain harmonic combinations and dislike others. It's one thing to have some dissonance in order to bring variety and tension to music; the analogy is what hot spices and bitter tastes are to food. But just as one would probably reject a steady diet of nothing but olives and cayenne pepper, so do the vast majority of music listeners reject a steady diet of atonal music which is, very often, fascinating from a structural/mathematical view but emotionally lacking. It's the latter quality which saves Berg's music, IMHO. +--------------------------------+ |Bruce I. Miller | "The sacred ties of Friendship |P.O. Box 195A | are paramount." |College of the Holy Cross | W. S. Gilbert, IOLANTHE |1 College Street | |Worcester, MA 01610-2395 U.S.A.| |Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu| |Telephone: 508-793-2430 | |Fax: 508-793-3020 | +--------------------------------+  1,, Summary-line: 1-Nov JenJJJ@aol.com #Family Tree.. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA00972; Fri, 1 Nov 96 17:35:07 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06626; Fri, 1 Nov 96 17:35:04 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03843; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:34:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:34:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <961101173207_1248295545@emout12.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: JenJJJ@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Family Tree.. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:34:59 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: JenJJJ@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Family Tree.. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Yes, to answer the question, I am young--23 to be exact! The Sullivan family tree down to me goes something like this...Arthur's brother Fred married a woman named Charlotte Louisa Lacy. They had something like eight kids? Quite a few anyway! One of the children, Maude Helen Sullivan (Arthur's niece) is my grandfather's grandmother, which makes me Arthur's great-great-great grand niece. Maude's family moved to California I don't know when, and my grandfather and his wife currently live in San Diego, California. My mother was born in Pasadena, Ca, and I was raised in San Diego. I met my husband in San Diego, and then we moved to Virginia for his schooling. There you have it! Most of my family is not as passionate about Uncle Arthur as my grandfather and I are, so I hope to learn as much as I can about the family before my grandfather dies so I can carry on the stories to my children. Nice meeting you all! Jennifer  1,, Summary-line: 6-Nov Bruce I. Miller #MIDI.....etc.... -Reply Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28405; Wed, 6 Nov 96 15:54:43 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB15520; Wed, 6 Nov 96 15:54:36 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA29548; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:54:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:54:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: MIDI.....etc.... -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:54:17 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: MIDI.....etc.... -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Sam: "Jealous Torments" is already availkable from various sources who have posted on SavoyNet (see the archive for these); A laughing Boy" is in the publication "Sing With Sullivan" - now out of print, but available from the London dealer C.D. Paramor, who has all the remaindered copies and just looking for people to snap them up; and "Fold your flapping Wings" was reprinted in Peter Kline's book "Gilbert and Sullivan Production." With a little finger walking, you should be able to obtain the latter two at least through inter-library loan. Full scores for all three are in the Hulme dissertation, which recently became available, the contents of which have been discussed here by Marc Shepard and me. As to putting these items in the archive, copyright restrictions prohibit that for all of these except "Fold your flapping wings" which was actually published in 1882. The other items were not published in score during Sullivan's lifetime, and thus there is probably a residual copyright issue involved relating to the authorized publication of the music by Cramer (Sing with Sullivan) and Hulme (unpublished dissertation but now available through the University of Wales). Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu >>> "Sam L. Clapp" 11/06/96 03:33pm >>> You know, if someone wanted to be REALLY nice and helpful, he/she should do such wanted lost songs as "Fold your Flapping Wings (the one I'm looking for)", "When jealous torments," etc, etc, as MIDI files and put them on the Web. Then we could have them! As it stands, I'm...well, not DEAPARATE, but I CERTAINLY would like "Fold your flapping" this week. Hm. Ah, well. such is life, one supposes in his meager way. ___________ ___________ \ (__________________________________________________) / >*********| Sam L. Clapp 1701 Andy Holt Ave. #B-312 |*********< /__________| (423) 595-8701 Knoxville, TN 37916 |__________\ \__________________________________________________/ My brain, it teems With endless schemes  1,, Summary-line: 6-Nov Bruce I. Miller #Re: Audition nerves - cures worse than the disease -Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14740; Wed, 6 Nov 96 19:44:10 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB29887; Wed, 6 Nov 96 19:44:07 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03146; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:05:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:05:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Audition nerves - cures worse than the disease -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:05:03 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Audition nerves - cures worse than the disease -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Directors, being humans, are not perfect; but they are foolish if their primary goal isn't to try casting the best possible people for the situation. This criterion does, naturally, vary depending on circumstances - sometimes casting decisions are compromises, made for reasons the auditionees can't be expected to understand because they aren't present when the alternatives are weighed. (To the extent that company politics become involved, I've found that the production tends to suffer.) My own experience has been to try to look beyond audition nerves to a person's true potential. If a person makes an error or miscalculation in auditions, it doesn't necessarily disqualify him or her. And I'll try to put a person at ease on that subject; if they're well prepared, so much the better, but I'm not looking for absolute perfection at an audition. What I *am* looking for is the person's overall singing and acting technique, as well as his/her suitability for a role. Normally an evaluation of these doesn't rely heavily on whether an auditionee gives a flawless performance or not. Confidence *is* a plus, but that doesn't necessarily mean the auditionee is locked into a particular interpretation. That could be a problem, but it's just as likely to happen with less confident people (perhaps more so). And there are many people who are nervous but are able to project an impression of confidence at auditions. There are ways of testing flexibility at auditions, and this quality is an important one. But, when directing, I find that once a person is cast, there can be times when, for whatever reason, an actor is simply unable to carry out successfully a directorial request or suggestion. If the problem is a major conceptual one, then the problem is significant and we simply have to work it out - a company of actors needs to have a unified overall vision and a single principal cannot work as if in as vacuum. However, individual details become less of an issue if an actor has generally a strong and well defined character which is acceptable in the overall scheme, as determined by the director. When faced with a creative, talented actor, I try to let him or her experiment for a while to see what works best - for the actor as well as the production. With less experienced and/or talented actors, it sometimes is necessary to be more restrictive, and specific as to what to do with a role. Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Summary-line: 14-Nov Bruce I. Miller #Re: Curtain calls -Reply Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05601; Thu, 14 Nov 96 17:32:39 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13084; Thu, 14 Nov 96 17:32:27 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22676; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:28:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:28:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Curtain calls -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:28:56 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Curtain calls -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 My position is not that curtain call music is necessarily a Bad Thing; simply that it may not be a Good Thing for Gilbert and Sullivan (which is closer in style to traditional opera than what, for lack of better terminology, we call the Broadway Musical). I suppose my point in all of this is that some companies tack on curtain call music rather automatically, thinking that's the way to do things. Curtain call music which is actually planned by the authors as part of the total performance experience is one thing; in those situations the music is usually tailored to play a certain amount of time, anticipating curtain calls to run about that long and usually calculated to climax a certain way. One never (well, hardly ever - I suppose there's got to be an exception somewhere) sees curtain call music in opera - there's no reason for it. The music has said what needed to be said, and when the opera's over, it's over. Straight plays without an incidental score (the majority of occasions) make do without curtain call music. As a director, if I felt adding curtain call music to G & S would add something to the experience, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But in every instance I've been present for a G & S production in which curtain call music was used - some of them quite fine productions - it felt like an anitclimax. Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Summary-line: 17-Nov Zelmira@aol.com #Rare Video of G & S Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23253; Sun, 17 Nov 96 10:39:28 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04725; Sun, 17 Nov 96 10:39:26 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA21134; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:39:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:39:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <961117103438_1518458123@emout04.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: Zelmira@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Rare Video of G & S X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:39:17 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: Zelmira@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Rare Video of G & S X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum The recent thread relating to rare videos of G & S has finally stirred me into posting. I have long been intrigued by the existence of the 1964 BBC 2 transmission of PATIENCE, and would give my back teeth (or, indeed, anything else) to see a copy of it - whatever the quality. Perhaps we should all lobby the BBC into making a documentary about the D'Oyly Carte, which might just make them examine what they have sitting in the archive. They DID, of course, produce a handsome series of audio recordings of the operas; but they have been pretty lax on the video front. To that end, I have contacted a friend of mine - a specialist collector of rare opera on video - who has in his posession copies of several rare videos of G & S video performances; notably: 1. Ruddigore animated cartoon - as mentioned in earlier thread - with John Reed, Ann Hood & Christine Palmer 2. John Reed - interview on "Wogan" (UK TV) in about 1986 3. The final quarter hour (or so) of the BBC Gondoliers (late 1970s) with John Brecknock, Thomas Allen & Joseph Ward; conducted by David Lloyd-Jones ..over and above the more obvious items (Story of G & S film; 1967 & 1932 Mikado(s) and 1973 Pinafore) He also reckons that he can get hold of copies of the following, without too much difficulty if people are interested: 4. Amateur performances of THE ZOO and ROSE OF PERSIA 5. TRIAL BY JURY (Albert Hall Prom) Brecknock, Hill-Smith, Sandison, Watt 6. IOLANTHE (1976 Australia) with June Bronhill He's particularly interested in acquiring copies of other rare G & S performances/related material; specifically the 1964 PATIENCE (as mentioned above); the BBC PRINCESS IDA (if it exists) from the 1970s or 1980s, with Valerie Masterson and Derek Hammond-Stroud which was mentioned in an earlier thread; a (more complete) copy of THE GONDOLIERS, as mentioned above; the 1970s BBC YEOMEN (Not the Brent-Walker!). Should you be interested in exchanging tapes - or even if you have information which fills in any gaps in the video record - he can be e-mailed on davidopera@aol.com. Cheers for now Andrew Percival Zelmira@aol.com  1,, Summary-line: 23-Nov Bill Kelly #Rickett & Hoogland 1 Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10815; Sat, 23 Nov 96 18:43:54 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29789; Sat, 23 Nov 96 18:43:52 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA26134; Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:43:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:43:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611232339.SAA15039@lexi1.lexitech.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bill Kelly" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Rickett & Hoogland 1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 18:43:47 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bill Kelly" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Rickett & Hoogland 1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 November 22, the day Sullivan died, is also my birthday. This year my daughters gave me a volume they found in a second-hand book store, _Let's Do Some Gilbert & Sullivan -- A Practical Production Handbook_, by Edmond W. Rickett and Benjamin T. Hoogland. The copyright is 1940 by the authors, and the publisher is Coward-McCann of New York. This book, according to no less authoritative a source than the flap copy on the book jacket, "is a gold mine of practical information for the amateur producer of Gilbert and Sullivan; and it will prove of equal value to singers, actors, directors, and the stage crew. It is also a book for every dyed-in-the wool Savoyard." That being the case, it would be criminal of me to withhold its wisdom from the Savoynet; and so I shall plan to share parts of it with you from time to time. Let's start with the authors. According to the jacket flap, "Mr. Hoogland has had fifteen years' experience [note elegant use of apostrophe after the "s"] with a number of first-rate amateur organizations, including the Amateur Comedy Club, the University Glee Club, and the Blue Hill Troupe. ... Mr. Rickett has been active in the musical and dramatic world in both England and America since the turn of the century. He has been an organist, musical director, composer, and dramatic teacher. In 1904 he wrote the music for Sir William Gilbert at his request for the _Fairy's Dilemma_, and he has written music for plays by such well-known dramatists as Sir James Barrie and Arthur Pinero. Since 1930, Mr. Rickett has been musical director of the Blue Hill Troupe, for which Mr. Hoogland has acted as stage director on several occasions." I assume these gentlemen are now deceased, but do any of you know of them, or know people who knew them? Is the incidental music for _Fairy's Dilemma_ still around? The Blue Hill Troupe, the Amateur Comedy Club, the University Glee Club -- what were they, and where are they now?  1,, Summary-line: 30-Nov Bruce I. Miller #Re: Gondoliers Overture -Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA02452; Sat, 30 Nov 96 16:15:45 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27574; Sat, 30 Nov 96 16:15:44 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA13538; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 16:15:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 16:15:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Gondoliers Overture -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 16:15:10 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Gondoliers Overture -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Have just returned from the microfilm reader (scanning various sections of Sullivan's Yeomen full score autograph) and the linking section to which Dan refers is indeed there. It is, in fact, quite similar to an identical idea Sullivan used in his next opera, The Gondoliers. There he used a musical bridge of this nature (also in 6/8 time) to link the end of the "Here is a fix unprecendented" quintet to his Act II Finale. But the issue is more complex than this... The orchestral playoff of "Rapture Rapture" was originally somewhat more elaborate than it was left finally. It was substantially cut and rewritten; some meaures are pasted over, leaving an isolated bar remaining in the middle, with the end of the page marked "V.S." (an indication to the conductor to turn the page fast), with the final three bars found on turning the page. (Originally, the movement seems to have come to a full stop, although it's not possible to fully read the details in this microfilm.) In all, seven bars of music were removed and three new ones were added at the end of the "new" cuts. The ending as found in the vocal scores does *not* match anything which was left as final in the full autograph score. It must be noted here that these final bars may not be in the composer's hand, but the fact that they are in this score surely indicates they were put there at Sullivan's direction. There are various passages in the operas (often involving rewrites) which Sullivan left to an assistant to put in the details. One is the final version of "Is life a boon" in which Sullivan wrote the instruction that the second verse was to have a "triplet accompaniment." These triplets are not found in the autograph, and we must assume they were put into the parts by a trusted copyist, probably using an earlier orchestration as his model. My initial reaction to all of this, lacking any other documentary evidence, is that the vocal score gives us a hybrid which may or may not reflect the final thoughts of the authors. Not all of the final changes in these operas seem to have been recorded consistently in either the vocal scores *or* to Sullivan's autographs. When the critical edition of the opera comes out eventually, this "Rapture, Raputre" playoff will undoubtedly be one of the stickier issues raised. Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu >>> Daniel Kravetz 11/30/96 01:40am >>> With regard to the chords that connect "Rapture, rapture" and "Comes the pretty young bride," I can't say who wrote them, or when, or why. They have always bothered me, however, because it is most unusual for Sullivan to use such a device to link two numbers in his operas. "Rapture, rapture" has often been cut, in traditional practice, supposedly because it doesn't fit what certain people think the mood of the last portion of the opera ought to be. I happen to think it's a wonderful number and fits the opera to a "T," because that's the way the opera was written. The connecting chords seem to serve no other purpose than to call the audience to order, as it were, perhaps killing applause and any other prolonged enjoyment of the duet that has just ended. The throbbing chords that introduce "Comes the..." are a delightful evocation of "the dawn of the day," (could Ravel have been inspired by them for DAPHNIS AND CHLOE or Debussy for LA MER?) and are much more effective when heard after a few moments of silence. Keeping the connecting chords suggests to me that "Rapture..." is thought not deserving of elimination, but still somewhat embarrassing. Even if there is no physical scene change when it ends, the libretto and music seem to call for an imagined time shift, which is best accompanied by silence in the pit.  1,, Summary-line: 2-Dec D & J Duffey #RE: Gender Switch for Merryman Lyrics Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18585; Mon, 2 Dec 96 13:55:32 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16105; Mon, 2 Dec 96 13:55:17 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA00203; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:54:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:54:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9612021751.AB11075@fm3.facility.pipex.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (D & J Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Gender Switch for Merryman Lyrics X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.08 : aa *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:54:54 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (D & J Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Gender Switch for Merryman Lyrics X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.08 : aa When first my old, old love I knew My feelings were clear as glass; My riches at his feet I threw - Just like a love sick lass! No terms seemed too extravagant To emphasise his class - I used to mope, and sigh, and pant, I was a love-sick lass! Tink-a-Tank - Tink-a-tank. But joy incessant palls the sense; And passion, unchanged, will pass, So he became a bore intense Unto his love-sick lass! With fitful glimmer burnt my flame, And I grew frigid, alas - At last, one morning, I became Another's love-sick lass. Tink-a-Tank - Tink-a-Tank A pity, in a way, about the rhyme-scheme. I fancied "There was to be a nuptual mass" for line 4 of first verse. -- David Duffey dduffey@argonet.co.uk. 107 ... PE1 3LE +44 (0)1733 52791 ('phone&fax) ZFC B  1,, Summary-line: 3-Dec D & J Duffey #Re: Martyn Green (long) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19106; Tue, 3 Dec 96 08:35:20 EST Received: from Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20407; Tue, 3 Dec 96 08:35:19 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Sparcy.Bridgewater.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA15801; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:35:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:35:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9612031233.AA28430@fm3.facility.pipex.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@Bridgewater.EDU Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (D & J Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Martyn Green (long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.08 : aa *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:35:12 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@Bridgewater.EDU Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (D & J Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Martyn Green (long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.08 : aa The correspondence about Martyn Green is fascinating. My father. who thought Green better the Lytton - was for a time MG's superior officer during the war, Flight Lieutenant to Green's Pilot Officer. Father did not like him as a person, "Jumped-up little squirt" was his most favourable comment. He steadfastly refused to go behind to renew the acquantence so there was probably amnity on both sides. Father often used to visit other DOYC players, however. I saw Green before he left DOYC but not after. When Green was fifty-one a critic noted "If Mr Green were not singing Ko-Ko he could easily double in some impish ballet, for his feet and his body are as eloquent as his voice". (Quoted by Audrey Williamson 'Gilbert and Sullivan Opera', 1953). I quote the obituary from "The Times" (11 Feb 1975): Martyn Green, one of the most distiguised of Savoyard singers, died on February 8, 1975 in hospital in Hollywood, where he had been working for two years as an actor. He was 75. Green was in the royal line of D'Oyly Carte singing-actors that began with George Grossmith and progressed through Sir Henry Lytton to him. He was born William Martyn-Green in London on 22 April 1899 and studied singing with his father. Then he went to Gustav Garcia at the Royal College of Music from 1912 to 1921, the year he made his London debut at the Palladium in 'Thirty Minutes of Melody'. He first appeared with the D'Oyle Carte in trhe small part of Luiz in 'The Gondoliers'. After a thorough grounding in the G & S works in small parts and as an understudy, a customary apprenticeship in those days, he took over the leading roles from Lytton in 1934 and continued successfully to fill them until 1951. In 1938 he appeared in a film version of 'The Mikado'. After retiring from the D'Oyly Carte Company he took up a new career as a straight actor in the United States. In 1959 he lost a leg after a lift accident. With great resolution he began to remake his career, using an artificial limb. About that time he commented that it was a bit like a baby learning to walk, falling down and picking himself up again. He was a regular performer on the New York stage and was last seen in a film of Eugene O'Neill's 'The Iceman Cometh'. Many of those who today enjoy the Savoy operas remember Green's perfomances with affection, and still judge the interpretations of his successors by the high standard in enuciation and characterization that he set. His Bunthorne had a sneering, lazy hauteur, his Major-general in 'Pirates' was properly preposterous and his Lord Chancellor in 'Iolanthe' was tetchily amusing, but he was just as able to bring out the pathos of Ko-Ko's "Tit Willow" or Jack Point's "I have a song to sing O". His voice could be politely termed a light baritone. All the projection came from his inimitable way with a text, his perfect timing and his light footed acting. In brief he had an exemplary sense of style. In the early days of L.P. he happily left a memento of his art in complete recordings of his chief roles. The Times: London, 11 Feb 1975. I agree about the light baritone - but to anyone who knows the first thing about singing, Green shows that he had a superb singing technique also. Every vowel is correctly placed and the breath control is unsurpassed. -- David Duffey dduffey@argonet.co.uk. 107 ... PE1 3LE +44 (0)1733 52791 ('phone&fax) ZFC B  1,, Summary-line: 7-Dec grant wilson #Stratford Ontario Festival ordering Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07314; Sat, 7 Dec 96 23:41:49 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17738; Sat, 7 Dec 96 23:41:48 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA00226; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 23:41:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 23:41:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: grant wilson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Stratford Ontario Festival ordering X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 23:41:46 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: grant wilson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Stratford Ontario Festival ordering X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 For Rafe and the person who enquired, and anyone else interested - The Theatre Store at the Stratford, Ontario, Festival, is at P.O. Box 520, Stratford, Ontario, Canada. N5A 6V2 Phone number is area 519-271-0055. Fax is 519-271-2734. G&S videos listed are - The Mikado (1982), The Gondoliers (1984), Iolanthe (1984) - all priced at $39.95 Canadian funds. They note that U.S. orders are tax exempt. Shipping/handling extra (or course!) I might add that although there was a discussion some time ago about these performances, and some people criticizedthem on non-purist grounds, I saw them in person and enjoyed them, and have all 3 videos which I play fairly often.They may NOT be just as G & S wrote them, but they are IMHO very nice to watch/listen to. Hope this of interest. Grant Wilson. PS - if anyone would like a copy of their 1997 Visitors Guide, which (if it is the same as the 1966 one), will in addition to the plays/musicals to be performed, lists accommodations/dining/shopping/things to see and do/day trips/maps - of the Stratford area. It is a pretty city and well worth a visit if one is inclined to Shakespeare and some other good stuff!!! PPS - Through the kind co-operation of another Savoynetter (name witheld) I also have a video of the Stratford HMS PINAFORE - around 1982 but not certain of the year. It also is quite good (to me at least). This is NOT listed as available from the store though. Grant.  1,, Summary-line: 3-Jan Michael Blum #Canonicity/Historicity/Temporal Purity Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21167; Fri, 3 Jan 97 20:03:49 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26394; Fri, 3 Jan 97 20:03:48 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA05554; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:03:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:03:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <32CD6674.D25@michaelblum.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Blum To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Canonicity/Historicity/Temporal Purity X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.bridgewater.edu id UAA05554 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:03:30 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Blum To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Canonicity/Historicity/Temporal Purity X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Saturn.bridgewater.edu id UAA05554 Since the furor over directorial changes of time and setting seems to have died down apace, allow me to put in my oar. IMHO, there are three choices to be made when staging any dramatic work: =95 time/place specified by work itself; =95 time/place (usually time) when work was actually created; =95 any other time/place Email isn't the time/place to lodge a thesis, so I will be brief.=20 Reason for the first: obvious. Reason for the second: because authors generally are only truthful about what they know, and people generally only know the times in which they live (pace Dr. Who). Witness Shakespeare: blithely sends Hamlet off to Wittenburg Tech, a flourishing/famous state school in 1603, alas not extant in 950 (or whenever Saxo put Amlaith). Forest outside of Athens (Dream) seems a tad more like woods in Greater Stratford-on-Avon than Mycenaean Glades.=20 Therefore Traviata more often set in 1850s Mitteleuropa than 1770s Ancien Regime: Verdi had firsthand knowledge of prejudice against "women of light virtue" and his Germont is clearly a post 1848 provencal. Ditto Boheme in 1890s rather than 1830s (even with line "Luigi filippo? M'inclino al re!") Etc., etc. Reason for the third: if understanding of authors' intents and meaning of drama (sometimes known as spine of drama, superproblem or super action) can be better communicated (or can be saved from non-communication) to audience by moving the time/place, DO SO in interest of dramatic validity. I make no pejorative reference to modern intelligence nor do I patronise (pray, do not patronise) other savoynetters. Sellars' Orlando, being set in trailer park outside Cape Canaveral, allowed audiences to get the point rather than be offput by wigs and 2-D stage sets. When I did The Consul in 1979, I found the audience identified better with an exact locale/time (Czechoslovakia just before, during and after Nazi takeover in 1938/1939) than it would have with Menotti's rather vague post-WWII, pre-Stalinist Europe (if it ever existed). HOWEVER, were I doing The Consul today, I would revert to the Menotti vagueness BECAUSE the spotlight for several years has been on a breaking up, who-knows-who's-in-charge Europe! We face/faced this problem countless times with G&S. Harry Turner, in several Emails, has reminded us that recent legislation has made US audiences familiar with LLCs, LTDs (wasn't that a car?), etc. But twenty years ago no one on this side of the pond "got" the Monarchy, Ltd. versus Limited Monarchy joke in Utopia (or any other joke in Utopia. All hail the joint stock company act of '62!). Or the Duke of Plaza Toro, Ltd. joke. But change the line to "Duke of Plaza Toro, Incorporated" and the house came down. I know which one I prefer! On the other hand, changing time/place "just because" is indeed patronising. And the NYCO Kabuki Mikado (perhaps best seen in Foul Play) was the most unfunny production ever. But I digress. In conclusion, a director wilfully perverting authorial direction to advance his/her own agenda is unsupportable: Dutchman the dream of the Steersman; Tosca the dream of the Sacristan (former really happened, latter a gag); Lulu set in a Men's Room. But an intelligent effort to advance the truth/humor/topicality/whimsy/satire/genius/what-have-you of the drama by shifting time/place or by making any other alteration, small or vast, should always be judged strictly by the degree of its success. =20 A humble example follows. After mounting 27 productions over 15 years during which the audience sat politely (or not!) listening to a concert overture, I completely staged the Mikado overture in a production in 1982, using the "signature" themes of the characters as a guide to presenting an entirely acted-out (not danced) previous action: beginning with the posting of the law punishing flirting, introducing all characters except Kat and Mik and Pooh, seeing Ko-Ko at work, love of Nanki and Yum, despair of Nanki and his departure, Ko flirting with Yum, Ko arrested, desire of locals to change law, elevation of Ko, etc.: everything exactly as later related (notice all this actually does occur before opening, which takes place on morning of wedding of new LHEx with ward). It was marvelous. It gave the women a lot to do early in the show. It allowed every chorister to create and extend an individual character. It intrigued the audience and made the (sometimes bewildering) later recitation of past action more comprehendable. Etc. So don't throw the bab out with the ballad. In the immortal words of Stan Lee, 'Nuff said.  1,, Summary-line: 15-Jan Arthur Robinson #Re: Favorite operas (longer than way too long) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22225; Wed, 15 Jan 97 12:13:44 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27626; Wed, 15 Jan 97 12:13:43 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA09109; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:13:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:13:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Favorite operas (longer than way too long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:13:14 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Favorite operas (longer than way too long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Gordon Pascoe wrote: > P.S. I'd be interested in seeing what s'netters list of favourite NON > Gilbert works composed by Sullivan would look like. (Including pure > orchestral, choral, anything) All right, you asked for it. I'd better restrict myself to Sullivan's non-G&S operas. I haven't seen them except for The Zoo and Cox & Box; this is based on how good I think they'd be on stage, based on listening to recordings and reading the libretti. (I'd better omit IVANHOE, for which I haven't read the libretto and which I don't care for much--but maybe I haven't listened to it enough.) Obviously, all comments are subjective and biased according to my tastes. 1. THE ROSE OF PERSIA: the music is Sullivan at his best. Hood's libretto is the best non-Gilbert libretto that Sullivan set; clever and often funny lyrics, dialogue often amusing if in need of pruning--maybe it's second-rate Gilbert, but most people who tried to imitate Gilbert were closer to fifth-rate. 2. THE ZOO: I've seen it in the theatre and it works. The music is great fun, the sung-through libretto may not be great literature but it has some good laughs. 3. THE EMERALD ISLE: Maybe this shouldn't count since it's largely by Edward German, who did a terrific job completing it. But the music is very good, the lyrics mostly clever and entertaining. The dialogue requires major surgery, but pared down, I think this would still work on stage. 4. COX AND BOX: Enjoyable, but I think The Zoo is a better bet for someone who wants a curtain-raiser. 5. HADDON HALL: The music is fine, the lyrics mostly well crafted but not much in content, the dialogue hard to read. I like to play the record, but wouldn't be enthusiastic about seeing it on stage. 6. THE CHIEFTAIN/CONTRABANDISTA (taken together): Terrific music (IMO, but then I like The Grand Duke even more); terrible libretto. David Eden's revision is an improvement, anyway. 7. THE BEAUTY STONE: Again, I like the music a lot, and recommend the record. As for the libretto, I think Sullivan deserves a medal for setting some of the lines (many of which are about as long as in the Nightmare Song but intended to be serious, and the rhyme schemes are often bizarre--I sometimes think the lyricist[s] thought "Wait, I didn't rhyme that line five lines ago--I'll make the next line rhyme with it), let alone doing it so well. Actually, some of the lyrics are good, but not many. The dialogue reminds me of Gilbert--to be exact, Gilbert's GRETCHEN. Second opinions? Anyone want to rate Gilbert's non-Sullivan operas? (I may do so soon, but don'thave time today--luckily for all of you.) Arthur  1,, Summary-line: 21-Jan David Goldberg #G&S in the Movies Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21927; Tue, 21 Jan 97 20:09:49 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06056; Tue, 21 Jan 97 20:09:48 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA06382; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:09:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:09:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Goldberg To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S in the Movies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:09:37 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Goldberg To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S in the Movies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 { David Goldberg: goldberg@orchard.washtenaw.cc.mi.us } { Washtenaw Community College, Ann Arbor Michigan } As GASBAG editor some years ago, I compiled with the help of Savoynet, a long list of movies that contain G&S moments. Due to a hard-drive crash I lost some information, but here is the most complete version I can find. I will be happy to be the maintainer of this list, but if anyone here, especially someone who has a website, wishes to keep this list up-to-date, please recommend yourself. Until then, if you know of a movie that doesn't appear here, or if you have a fuller description of one that does, then please let me know. GS Movies: Movies that contain something from Gilbert or Sullivan An American Tail: Poor Wandering One The Bad News Bears Go To Japan: the entire Mikado score is ripped off. The Big Broadcast: 1932, Paramount, with a huge all-star cast, included Bing Crosby in his first major screen role. In this movie he introduced the song that later became his theme song, "Where the Blue of the Night Meets the Gold of the Day". The compo ser is listed as Fred Ahlert, but it's really stolen directly from "Tit Willow". The Captain's Paradise: with Alec Guiness. A military band plays "Take a pair of sparkling eyes." Chariots of Fire: uses G&S lines a part of the plot and action. Part of The Mikado is presented on-stage. One of the lead players sings 'With catlike tread'. Deep In My Heart Duck Soup: Frederick Sullivan, nephew of Arthur and made up as Arthur, has a cameo role; contains part of the finale of The Mikado. Enchanted April The Final Frontier (Star Trek VI): Short dialogue similar to Pinafore: Kirk (to Dr. McCoy): Bones, are you afraid of the future? McCoy: I believe that was the general idea that I was trying to convey. Foul Play The Girl Said No (a.k.a. With Words and Music), 1937: Gilbert & Sullivan are listed in the opening credits. G&S shows are an integral part of the plot; a lot of music is sung and played also as background music. Includes a long segment of a stage perfor mance of The Mikado; Patience, Iolanthe, The Pirates of Penzance, The Pirates of Patience (not a misprint), Pinafore, Ruddigore, Yeomen. THE GLASS MENAGERIE (1950), Kirk Douglas sings a couple of lines of "When the foeman bares his steel" to Jane Wyman as they look at an old program from a production of PIRATES. The Go-Between The Hand That Rocks the Cradle: Poor Wandering One, twice - on radio? Howard's End I Could Go On Singing The List of Adrian Messenger (1963): Tony Curtis grinds out G&S on a hurdy-gurdy. The Law (1974): begins with "My Object All Sublime" Lillian Russell The List of Adrian Messenger Little Darlings: an early Matt Dillon film, there is a girls' summer camp rehearsal of "Climbing Over Rocky Mountain." Kristy McNicholl (who is in the cast) went on to perform with Christopher Atkins in "The Pirate Movie", a modern fantasy of P of P. Th at movie's poster graced the cover of the Sir Arthur Sullivan Society's journal. The Long Day Closes (1992): complete performance of Sullivan's "The Long Day Closes" Love and Pain and the Whole Damn Thing: Maggie Smith mumbles through "How beautifully blue the sky" Making Love Rikki-Tikki-Tavi: a cartoon narrated by Orson Welles, taken from Kipling's The Jungle Book. A young boy named Teddy sings part of 'When I was a lad' while taking a bath. The Magic Box(1951): contains the Sullivan song, "Will he come?" Making Love The Matchmaker Milo and Otis The Naughty Victorians: X-rated. Extensive use of G&S melodies as background music. It explicitly mentions G&S at the outset, in a voice-over by the heroine. She says something to the effect of "I have always loved the music of Sir Arthur Sullivan, and hearing it inevitably makes me think of my first love, Marmaduke Grosvenor" or whatever. Never Cry Wolf: Let's give three cheers, and the Major General's song. Notorious Landlady The Parent Trap: Let the punishment fit the crime The Producers - A Wandering Minstrel, I; During audition; singer sings only one line. Raiders of the Lost Ark contains snatches of "I am the monarch of the sea", and "A British tar is a soaring soul". The Rainbow, 1989: "Poor Wand'ring One" is played during the wedding reception of Sammi Davis' character's friend. Room With A View The Ruling Class: stars Peter O'Toole. Arthur Lowe plays a character who in one scene sings "Poor Wand'ring One" while stumbling around drunk. The Shootist: In one scene Lauren Bacall is at the piano, singing "Tit Willow" (in the wrong key; she has a low-pitched voice) and Wayne joins in for a few words. Slaughterhouse Five: the Brits sing the Pirates' chorus The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle Threshold: stars Donald Sutherland - busy heart transplant surgeon attends his daughter's grade school play - we see part of the finale of Pirates The Wizard of Oz: Near the end, when the scarecrow (Ray Bolger) receives his diploma, he says "Oh joy, oh rapture, oh rapture, oh joy!" Women In Love ===========================================================================  1,, Summary-line: 30-Jan David Duffey #With wooing words Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01807; Thu, 30 Jan 97 08:56:50 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03403; Thu, 30 Jan 97 08:56:49 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA21491; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:56:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:56:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <9701301250.AA16472@fm3.facility.pipex.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: With wooing words X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:56:47 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: With wooing words X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Brush up your Gee'n'S (with apologies to Cole Porter) The Girls today, in society, Go f'op'retta, not poetry, So to win their hearts one must think it a lark To quote from Monsieur Offenbach. One must know Cellier, and b'lieve me, Pa, Massager and Lehar-har-har Unless you know Sousa and Strauss and Huss Dainty debbies will give the bum's rush. But the masters of 'em all, That'll make the goyls all pant hard, Are the ones entitled to call, Themselves a Savoyard! Brush up your Gee'n'S, Start quoting 'em now. Brush up your Gee'n'S, And the wimin you will wow! If she thinks your intentions are not well meant, Try quoting some lines of The Defendent, When she don't come across 'cos your face it leers, See what happens right after The Gondoliers. Brush up your Gee'n'S, etc. If she always stays coy, and keeps sayin' "No", Well, so at first Kat did from Ko-Ko; If she then keeps on tryin' to hide-a Remember that Hillarian got Ida. Brush up your Gee'n'S, etc. When you spoil things by tryin' on far too hard, See what happens when you sing Yeomen of the Guard; If she then will not sit up upon your knee, Give her all that you've got from I'lanthe. Brush up your Gee'n'S, etc. And if still she won't let you caress her, Tell her Guiseppi was allowed to by Tessa; Then if she finds you've got her in a mess Well, trot out a Duke and a Duchess. Brush up, etc. If it goes quite wrong and she starts to cuss Then that is the time too kiss her fondly thus; And you'll soon find that when you rebuke her She'll get up and dance you a cachucha. Brush up your Gee'n'S And they'll all bow bow It's their duty And they'll all bow bow Rapture Rapture And they'll all bow bow. David Duffey -- David Duffey Jill Duffey Elizabeth Duffey John Duffey (known as "Sheepy") 107....PE1 3LE (England) and we have a fax machine.... (+44) (0)1733 52791  1,, Summary-line: 1-Feb TZS@aol.com #Re: When Jesse really ruled the waves. -Reply -Reply Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21683; Sat, 1 Feb 97 16:04:14 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24131; Sat, 1 Feb 97 16:04:13 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA09426; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:59:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:59:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <970201155314_242320477@emout10.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: TZS@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: When Jesse really ruled the waves. -Reply -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:59:17 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: TZS@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: When Jesse really ruled the waves. -Reply -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In a message dated 97-02-01 15:06:08 EST, you write: << and admit that the wrongdoing seems to be spread around just about equally - rather than continuing to insist that truth, goodness and right reside *only* on one or the other side of the political spectrum. >> I DO admit this. There is corruption and skirting around the rules on all sides. But because my leanings are left of center, I guess I take more delight in poking fun at the Right. I am incurably mischievous about this, and what I am about to post, which I just finished writing, is bound to infuriate a lot of people. But I (alsmot) can't help it; I was born sneering---and the chance to attempt to parallel WSG's scansion whilst giving it a "liberal" twist proved irresistible to me. So here it is, unpolished, warts and all, but not an unwholesome way to have spent a Saturday morning. Tom Shepard A "LIBERAL'S" NIGHTMARE SONG Twits, uninvited, rob me of my rest; Twits, senseless twits, my tortured brain inhabit: Twits, right-wing like, are crushing down my chest, And make me think that they just want to stab it! When you're lying abed with an ache in the head, and the concept of rest is a mystery, I suggest that you need H.L. Mencken to read or a- nother who's up on his history; For your mind is in shambles---Newtonian gambols and Alfonsic efforts at flummery Are the sort of a kind to disorder your mind when you sense their behavior is scummery. So you reach for a Molson--- you think of Clyde Tolson who's donning his new gay apparel. And we give three cheers more for Clyde's new pinafore, Crashing down Hoover Dam in a barrel. Then the ice-maker breaks and the old freezer shakes, and the floor is now just a huge puddle; Then the pilot light dies and the room's filled with flies as you realize your world's in a muddle. Well you get some relief when you think of their grief, that, although there was lots of excitement, The Whitewater scam may be just one more sham: And there won't be a White House indictment! So in bed I'm now stewing, my hot brain is brew- ing, I'm stuck with some helmsman named Jesse, And he's heaping the coals and our ship hits the shoals and the whole thing is terrible messy. But the ice caps look fine and there's G. David Schine with Roy Cohn and McCarthy, his cronies. They're an unwholesome bunch, ---so I can't eat my lunch, (just Some conies and phony palonies.) And bound on this steamer---(I'm really some dreamer!) there's Nixon and Liddy all shaken. And I hear them say "Bummers! those idiot plumbers can't Find a safe office to break in!" As we skirt by the rocks and we're drying our socks and We're trying to pass this disaster Martha M. comes along in a bright green sarong, and old John screams, "Why can't we go faster?!" But this I can't bear, I am tearing my hair, (which looks just like I gave it a permanent), And we're sallying forth with our heading due north and I see that it's plaid on the firmament. And all of the crew are in tartans of blue---kilts with bagpipes that somebody pressed on 'em--- And their necks are bright red and the hats on each head have been sewn with a bald eagle's crest on 'em--- It's a way to look hairy and beary and scary to frighten all possible comers (Which ticked off the brothers and most of the others) by acting as though they were mummers. You get a good actor to drive an old tractor (make sure his complexion is ruddy), Though he says that he can't, he will soon start to plant, with his trousers waist-deep in the muddy. >From this thespian soul in agrarian role Who can pass as a farmer-type resident, His naively-held views soon will soon capture the news, And in time he'll become the next President! The shares are a nickel, and we're in some pickle, from Malibu east to Manhattan, The people are needy, the wealthy are greedy, And Ronnie is sleeping on satin---- You're awake and aware, and you're full of despair and you feel so bereft as you veer to the left, and you flash and you flush from ingesting this mush, and your mind is aflame from this voodoo-like game, and you've pain in your joint, and you say "what's the point?" and a stye in your eye plus a lump on your thigh, and stilletto-like pain in your ossified brain with your senses severely dimished; But the campaign is o'er, and Bob Dole's out the door, and the road has been rough---and I've gone on enough---and thank goodness Rush Limbaugh is over.!  1,, Summary-line: 6-Feb Sam L. Clapp #Tim Rice, the demon. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA14759; Thu, 6 Feb 97 17:38:07 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05151; Thu, 6 Feb 97 17:38:06 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA25489; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:37:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:37:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <01IF3OWIBI8Y8XIJ4J@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sam L. Clapp" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Tim Rice, the demon. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:37:41 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sam L. Clapp" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Tim Rice, the demon. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 I would have posted this MUCH earlier, but, you see, my hard drive went COMpletely nuts... Consequently, like Sir Arthur stranded in New York, I shall have to re-compose this from memory. I didn't write it for you, but for my small circle of over-zealous Madonna fans..... You won't believe me, you'll think it strange When I try to explain how I feel That I still hate these words after all of these years You won't believe me; You'll think that Madonna has changed my strong views Although she's dressed up to a T Her lyrics don't watch P's and Q's! (I was especially proud of this one) I couldn't let it happen, I couldn't change Wasn't swayed by the public's appeal; Nor the "hip" version danced to by several queers So I rebelled, then; I'll not see the movie, I won't pay those dues It wouldn't impress me at all... Pop culture just gives me the blues! Don't sing Tim Rice's bad lyrics The truth is, they'll really hurt you They use bad grammar and aren't witty; If it's Tim Rice's, it isn't pretty...... ---OK, so that turned out to be a rather disgusting practice in imitation of the insipid, but, really, such incoherent lines as "I won't pay those dues" are just the sort of thing Rice passes off as good lyric.  1,, Summary-line: 7-Feb David Lewis #Re: Rice/Lloyd-Webber -Reply Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08336; Fri, 7 Feb 97 12:25:57 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13419; Fri, 7 Feb 97 12:25:55 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA07700; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:25:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:25:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Lewis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Rice/Lloyd-Webber -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.00 <3B4D7F5TyhqbUNJPeb+2cvx+ok> Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:25:28 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Lewis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Rice/Lloyd-Webber -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.00 <3B4D7F5TyhqbUNJPeb+2cvx+ok> Mime-Version: 1.0 In article <199702062122.VAA21934@mailhost.dircon.co.uk>, Bill McCann writes >Of course classical composers "stole" from themselves and others. It was >quite the done thing in the Classical Period and some 19th century >composers, especially Rossini, simply adored quoting themselves (which >usually meant rescuing the better music from a flop). And they all freely >admitted/acknowledged this. But, I have heard (Irish Radio early 70s) ALW >vehemently assert that ALL of his music is original and deny that any of >his songs were derived from other composers. That is not quite in the same >spirit and possibly signals an underlying lack of confidence anyway. I >switched the radio off and have not listened to him since. > People in the USA might be interested to learn of a t-shirt which I take pleasure in wearing on suitable occasions. It depicts one of a series of newspaper cartoons, called Lost Consonants. The general idea is of a picture illustrating something, with a phrase beneath from which one consonant is missing. My t-shirt shows ALW sitting at a piano "composing" on a score where the name Puccini is crossed out and Andrew Lloyd-Webber substituted. The phrase underneath is: "Andrew Lloyd-Webber writing another hit musical" - remember, ONE consonant is missing..... David --- David Lewis  1,, Summary-line: 8-Feb Michael Nash #Patter Man Blues (Allegro in 6/8 time) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23611; Sat, 8 Feb 97 05:47:17 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14983; Sat, 8 Feb 97 05:47:17 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id FAA15565; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 05:47:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 05:47:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Nash To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Patter Man Blues (Allegro in 6/8 time) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 05:47:07 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Nash To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Patter Man Blues (Allegro in 6/8 time) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 A few weeks ago I outlined my audacious plan to portray Ko-Ko in the way he appeared to me from the text, i.e. not as a silly clown but as an ordinary guy becoming more and more desperate as the situation gets out of hand. However, as I feared, now we've started principal rehearsals, my ideas have been submerged in an ocean of "business", reproducing all the old D'Oyly Carte-isms. To rock the boat would risk causing unpleasant friction, so bye-bye individuality. To relieve my frustration, I knocked out the following little piece:- THE PATTER MAN BLUES Written by Mike Nash, 8th February 1997 Oh, a patter-man's lot is a happy one, NOT! If you'll listen to this brief oration; >From "Trial" to "Grand Duke" he must ride each rebuke And regale 'em with rapid narration. He will hone and refine every word, every line And enunciate all with perfection; But when he tries to sing, well it don't mean a thing; All he gets is abuse and rejection. Though you polish your breathing, projection and tone, Still you finish up seething, when all's said and done; All you get is abuse and rejection! If you wish to succeed singing patter, you'll need To obey every rule to the letter; You must practise the art of the old D'Oyly Carte Till you're Lytton, Green, Pratt, Reed or better. You must copy the pros from your top to your toes Every line, every move, every gesture; For if you should say e'en a word your own way You'll incur the wrath of your director! It's a general law, though your zeal it may kill: If the pros you ignore and you do what you will, You'll be sure to upset your director! Comes Sir Ruthven maybe, or the Duke of P.T., Oh, there's lots of traditional clowning: You must run here and there with your arms in the air Till you're gasping for breath like you're drowning. Then there's always a dance in a tight pair of pants As you belt out the bass of a trio; But to further the pain, you must sing it again, Only this time, allegro con brio! Oh, it adds to the chore of a patter-man's day When you have to encore the worst song in the play Once again, but allegro con brio! Though your brain it may teem with a marvellous scheme To be true to the script, yet original, There's so much of tradition debarred of omission Your thoughts become merely vestigial. Though you feel such a twit, 'cause your costume don't fit And it grips you too tight round the willy; Bless your heart, they don't care, it's the cross you must bear: You're the comic, you've got to look silly! You've a loftier goal; each audition you go For a serious role, but do you get it? NO! You're the comic, you've got to be silly! Mike. (m.nash@mail.internexus.co.uk)  1,, Summary-line: 8-Feb Arthur Robinson #Re: Patter Man Blues (Allegro in 6/8 time) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA01013; Sat, 8 Feb 97 09:57:38 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04870; Sat, 8 Feb 97 09:57:37 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA17088; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:57:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:57:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Patter Man Blues (Allegro in 6/8 time) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:57:29 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Patter Man Blues (Allegro in 6/8 time) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 Thanks--I really enjoyed "The Patter Man Blues"! Not only is it a clever and funny piece of work, it gives me an excuse to trot out my own patter song parody (to the tune of the Major-General's song): DEFINITION OF A PATTER SONG A patter song is something of incredible velocity, Considered by some singers an unspeakable atrocity. The singer fills his lungs with air as far as they are fillable, Then rattles off a string of rhymes, each one a polysyllable. The members of the audience, all certain they'd be better in The part (in comic opera each one of them's a veteran), Regard the singer breathlessly (he feels as if some bricks he ate) And wait for him to miss a line or, better yet, asphyxiate. The orchestra accelerates the tempo then for several Allusions to South Kensington or to peak-haunting Peveril, Until (if he is still alive) your baritone or tenor'll Retire and take a safer job (e.g., as Major-General). Arthur  1,, Summary-line: 9-Feb Kirschkins@aol.com #More Patter Parody Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27187; Sun, 9 Feb 97 10:33:18 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04512; Sun, 9 Feb 97 10:33:04 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA24995; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:28:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:28:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <970209102722_205651344@emout10.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kirschkins@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: More Patter Parody X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:28:32 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kirschkins@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: More Patter Parody X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Here's my contribution, to the tune of the Matter Trio (written for the Ruddigore cast party of The Savory Singers of New Jersey in 1990). Observe the unpleasant result: To sing this sort of song requires lots of dedication Not to mention breath control as well as great articulation You must get the nouns correct and all the verbs in their right tenses Or the audience will never know exactly what the sense is Oh, the difficulties are so great that sometimes you may stagger But the orchestra keeps going so you must not be a lagger Though it's more than likely your saliva everyone will splatter Just be sure before you enter that you empty out your bladder. And don't think that the song alone is adequately silly For there's always a director who just has to paint the lily With some choreography it takes just three to cause congestion Whether this improves the song it is not my intent to question But to make those singers roam the stage with no sign of a fetter Is to risk that all those acrobatics make them take a header Thus Sir Despard always looks as if his youthful wife he'd batter And he would have done it, too, if either one of them were fatter. Then when you've sung it once tradition says you sing another So you're back while your reluctance you with difficulty smother But to say that it's tradition is to drag a great red herring The director wants to see if you can do it without erring And it's also customary to increase the speed a little And you cry, "I'm just a singer, not a player of the fiddle" But if you don't do it one more time, your self-esteem will shatter So you just ignore the fact that the applause was just a smatter. [Puff, puff, puff, etc.,.............] On the last time through you find you have no breath to sing this patter So you act it out, a victory of mime over matter. David Hawkins Kirschkins@aol.com  1,, Summary-line: 14-Feb Mapman923@aol.com #Re: Of Thee I Sing, Billy! -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09120; Fri, 14 Feb 97 23:53:49 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22116; Fri, 14 Feb 97 23:53:48 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA03263; Fri, 14 Feb 199 7 23:53:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:53:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <970214235008_1547674827@emout14.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mapman923@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Of Thee I Sing, Billy! -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 23:53:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:53:46 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mapman923@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Of Thee I Sing, Billy! -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In a message dated 97-02-14 19:30:02 EST, you write: << the books being unplayable. If so, why are they being played? >> Here, IMHO, is the real question. As David Letterman reminds us, there's no off position on the genius switch. I'm sure all of us have turned the question over in our minds at one time or another. "Why does it work?" In 1981, I think, I saw the VLOG PRINCESS IDA a la STAR WARS. The voices, acting and muscianship were superb. IDA has been one of my favorites ever since. OK, they threw in a little JAWS music, IDA had hair like Princess Leia, etc. But basically they trusted the material and went for artistic truth, if giving it a little "typical-topical patter" (has anyone ever tried to stage the Anna Russell "How to Write Your Own Gilbert and Sullivan Opera"? That's a real question, for those of you who have not already moved to the next message) I must admit I am easliy seduced by good musicianship and great voices -- I often wonder what ever happened to that phenomenal Lady Blanche. The Cyril was pretty good, too. But I digress. Why does a G&S production work whether it's a frozen-in-the-tundra-mammoth of an every-moue-cribbed-from-the-prompt-book-with-a-little-Martin-Green-thrown-in show or if it's been mangled to the point of unrecognizability. (It was on A&E recently. What a nasty way to greet a Sunday morning. But it HAS led people to G&S, so I won't argue with it -- too much). So, you've got Gershwin's lyrics and Gershwin's music. WOW! Then you've got an excuse to fit them into a semi-dramatic situation. My reaction was, "So that's why she wants someone to watch over her!" True, the books are not MY FAIR LADY or NIGHT MUSIC, but they're fun (I have a soft spot in my head -- I mean heart -- for LI'L ABNER and PAJAMA GAME, which make STRIKE UP THE BAND look like Chekov in comparison). I'd love to see revivals of NYMPH ERRANT and THE GOLDEN APPLE (raise your hands, class, if you even recognize these names. Lots of hands...in this crowd I'm not surprised). Fine books, fine music; who in their right minds will do them heedlessly? Economics is one thing. Art is another. Art is the result after one (or a team) has gilded the philosophic pill enough that the patient will take it and like it. What a shame. for those of us who have worked in groups who have often been on the verge of being applied for... well, we know economics a little better. Which brings me back to DUKE. Cold comfort to those of us who find much to love in DUKE (despite what in the show we would gladly slap G or S upside the head for perpetrating) but what show of DUKE's contemporary works can claim either the initial run or the continual revivals? Anybody have any info about contemporary English operettas around 1896? For those of you have persevered to the end of this posting, thanks. Bill Snyder  1,, Summary-line: 16-Feb J. Donald Smith #Review of Hancock County's Mikado Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06337; Sun, 16 Feb 97 12:52:34 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12366; Sun, 16 Feb 97 12:52:33 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA15798; Sun, 16 Feb 199 7 12:52:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:52:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <01IFHFSTB9XU8Y57T5@umassd.edu> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Donald Smith" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Review of Hancock County's Mikado X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 12:52:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:52:32 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "J. Donald Smith" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Review of Hancock County's Mikado X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Normally I would not post review of 'local' productions to Savoynet. But since there was a query about this production and many of you have had the opportunity to see the Hancock County G&S Society at the International Gilbert and Sullivan Festival, this may be of more than passing interest. ========================================================================= I have had the privilege and pleasure of seeing the Hancock County, Maine Gilbert and Sullivan Society perform three times at the International Gilbert and Sullivan Festival but this was the first time that I had the opportunity of observing them in their natural habitat. The Grand Auditorium in Ellsworth provided the locale for their production of the Mikado which fully lived up to expectations of innovation overlaid on the base of traditional business. The 500-seat theater provided a very 'live' venue where every syllable could be clearly heard from all parts of the house. The staging of the 42-person chorus, which ranged from pre-teens to senior citizens, was most imaginative and kept one's head in constant movement trying to catch everything which was going on. The chorus's singing was spectacular. Along with the opening Gentlemen's chorus, there were also a number of women on stage - in roles ranging from rice or noodle girls to basket weavers and other assorted townsfolk. Frances John Vogt as Nanki-Poo was ignored on his entrance but as he wonderfully sang "A wand'ring minstrel" he won over the crowd (the chorus as well as the audience), by addressing various parts of the number to appropriate groups. John Cunningham as Pish-Tush superbly sang "Our great Mikado" in his wonderful bass voice and provided the appropriate foil for Nanki-Poo and for Pooh-Bah on his entrance. During "Our great Mikado" the action was enhanced by having one of the chorus ladies flirting with several gentlemen in turn, discreetly behind several fans. Pooh-Bah entered during the last verse and was stuffed by several of the noodle girls expertly wielding chopsticks. The Pooh-Bah of Dan Mills was the best I have ever seen. His superb voice, perfect timing, and exquisite diction brought new dimensions to the role. The Ko-Ko of Roland Dube was a classic performance. He is not the usual diminutive comic baritone one normally sees in the role, but every traditional move and gesture was there and executed very well. And with his sonorous voice, the singing took on a new dimension, naturally with an updated "Little List." The entrance of the ladies chorus to "Comes a train of little ladies" was well disciplined and enhanced by such innovations as their doing a "wave" with their fans at the climax. The three little maids (Bronwyn Kortge as Yum-Yum; Leslie Michaud as Pitti-Sing; and Lindsay Smith as Peep-Bo) were a perfectly matched set (for once) with Yum-Yum set off with a different color dress so that one could tell which was which. "Three little maids" was perfect with their using colorful parasols instead of fans for by-play. As for "So please you sir," the teasing they gave poor Pooh-Bah was a delight to watch; he never knew what hit him. During "...If we're inclined to dance and sing, etc.," first the three little maids, then the chorus did the Macarena (!), which brought the house down. The macarena was also performed during "... to sit in solemn silence..." but the gentlemen could not quite pull it off as effectively. In contrast to Ko-Ko, Katisha, played by Valerie Eaton, was rather diminutive but exerted her authority most convincingly, particularly during "Beauty in the bellow of the blast" where she ended up 'riding' Ko-Ko off stage while using her fan as a riding crop. Despite all the action, one very effective number was "The sun whose rays" which was sung superbly by Ms. Kortge and was enhanced by the simple expedient of her standing still and merely using hand gestures. The acting in the following scene was a little over-the-top where one couldn't tell if they were laughing or crying and the Madrigal was sung a little too sadly for what one is used to. The Mikado's entrance was spectacular with Zachary Field being carried in on a platform, on which he remained throughout his presence on stage. Mr. Field has an excellent voice which he used effectively in both his singing and dialog which was delivered with all the authority the role demands. He also demonstrated excellent stage presence in picking up some muffed dialog. Fortunately, I was able to see the performance twice. And if Hancock County were closer, I would have been tempted to see it again; it was that enjoyable. J. Donald Smith _______________________________________________________________________________ J. Donald Smith, 96 Old Colony Ave., #320; E. Taunton, MA 02718. Home: (508) 823-5110; Office: (508) 999-8231; FAX: (508) 999-9167; E-mail: DSMITH@UMASSD.EDU  1,, Summary-line: 18-Feb David Duffey #Re Dear, dear, dear (etc) (Very long indeed) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23345; Tue, 18 Feb 97 08:04:24 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02354; Tue, 18 Feb 97 08:04:21 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA07329; Tue, 18 Feb 199 7 08:04:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:04:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re Dear, dear, dear (etc) (Very long indeed) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** 7 08:04:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:04:19 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re Dear, dear, dear (etc) (Very long indeed) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 Herewith my attempt at lists. I am sure to have missed a lot, please let me know of any you find which are not there! A lotta little lists (useful for G&S quizes) TH= Thespis; TJ = Trial by Jury; SO = The Sorcerer; PF = HMS Pinafore; PP = The Pirates of Penzance; PC = Patience; IO = Iolanthe; PI = Princess Ida; MK = The Mikado; RG = Ruggigore; YG = The Yeomen of the Guard; GN = The Gondoliers; UL = Utopia Limited; GD = The Grand Duke (*= dubious ?= assumption) (singular and plural references not differenciated) 1. Musical instruments played on stage. 2nd Trombone *MK Brazen Brasses *GN Brass *MK Citharae GD Clarions UL Clarions (silver) GL Cymbals PC GN GD Double Basses *GN Double pipe PC Drum *PI GN Flageolet SO GN Flute (Silver) *YG UL Gong GD Guitar TJ Kettle Drum *GN Lute *YG PC UL Lyre GL *UL Mandolin PF PC GN Marine Parade *MK Native Guitar MK Pipes *IO GD Tabors *IO Trumpets PI *MK Violoncello PC Other Archaic Instruments PC Several Instruments PI The Band (never there) PI* GD* 2. Onomatopoeic representations of instrumental sound. Rum-tum-tum-tummy-tummy-tummy-tummy-tum! PI Tantantara! IO Tantantarara-rara-rara! UL Tarantara! PP Tink-a-tank TJ Tum, prrr-rrr-rrr, ra-pum,pum! PI Tzing! Boom! IO 3 Serving Officers of HM Armed Forces Colonel Calverley PC Captain Corcoran, RN PF Cptn Sir E. Corcoran, KCB, RN UL Lieut, The Duke of Dunsle PC Captain Fitzbattlaxe, 1st Life Guard UL The Admiral of the Fleet RG Major Murgatroyd PC Alexis Pointdextere SO The Port Admiral RG Major General Stanley (retired?) Tom Tucker PF Sir Garnet Wolseley PC Officers of Dragoon Guard PC Officers of various regiments RG 4 British Peers (19th Century) Lord Baring IO The Lord Chancellor IO The Duke of Dickens UL Lord Dramaleigh UL Lieut, the Duke of Dunstablel PC Lord Fildes UL The Admiral of the Fleet ? RG Viscount Millais UL Lord Moutararat IO Lord Nelson PC RG Pirate King PP Lord Rothchild IO UL Samuel PP Strephon IO Lord Tennyson PC *PI The Earl of Thackeray UL Lord Tolloller IO Lord Waterford PC Chorus of Pirates PP Chorus of Peers IO 5. British Monarchs mentioned by name Caractacus PP Elizabeth I IO James II TJ Anne PC George III IO Victoria PP Half mark for King Arthur PF 6. Foodstuffs Apple RG UL Apple puffs IO Aspargus GN Barburys IO Bath bun (rich) TH Beef TJ Beef (Australian preserved) TH Biscuits (mixed) UL Bon Bon GD Bread TJ RG GN Bread (dry) PI Bread (penny roll) GD Bread & Cheese RG GN GD Brill PF Bun SO GN Burrage TH Butter TH PC Butter-scotch GD Calculus *UL Cauliflower IO Cayenne pepper PC Cheese RG GN Chestnut PF Chicken PF Chops PC Conies PF Cranberries IO Crumbs YG Egg (Hard boiled) TH Eggs TH SO GD Fish IO GD Fowl GD Fruit UL Grapes TH* IO Gravy (cold) PC Grouse IO Ham SO Hardbake GD Ices TH IO GD Infant food IO Jujube DG Lamb (cold roast) PI Lettuce TH Lobster TH Lobster salad TH Macaroni GN Meat (cold) IO Meat (joint of) YG Meats PI Muffin SO Mustard & Cress SO Mutton TJ Orange (cut ball) GD Peach RG GL GD Pastries GD Peas SO IO RG Peppermint MK Peppermint (drops) PF UL Peppermint (rock) RG Pickles (mixed) IO Pies GD Pineapple IO Plum jam PC Plums GD Polonies PF Pudding (full of plums) Rusk GN Salad TH Sally Lunn SO Salmon IO Salt TH Sandwich GD Sausage YG Sausage roll GD Sorrow GL Soup (mock turtle) GD Sprats GN Strawberry jam SO Sugar TH GD Sugar plums GL GD Three-corners IO Toast SO Toffee PF PC Tommy PF Treacle PF Turbot PF Vinegar TH Worm (tough) MK 7 Beverages Beer PC RG GN GD Brandy GD Champagne (Pommery 74) GD Cherry brandy I Claret TH Claret cup TH Coffee PF GD Cream PF Currantweinmultch GD Gingerbeerheim GD Ginger beer TH Ginger pop UL Grog PF Manzanilla GN Milk TH Milk (skim) PF Montero GN Nectar TH UL Rum RG Rum-punch UL Sherry PP GN Sillery PI Soda water TH Tea SO PF UL GD Toddy GN Water TJ PC GD Waters (strong) RG Wine TH PI MK GN GD Wine (Lesbian) GD Wine (Marsala) GD Wine (Rhenish) GN Xeres GN 8 Characters who do not appear Sir Martin Byfleet YG Confessor *YG Djinn (Resident)` *SO The Admiral of the Fleet RG Gaffer Gadderby RG Giacopa (old) GN Mistress Lalage PI The Lieutenant's cook-maid The Mikado of Japan UL The Port Admiral RG Prophet (small) *SO Sir Clarance Poltwistle YG Richard Colfax YG Ruth Rowbottom RG Warren (preacher poet) YG Poor orphan girl RG 9 Foreign nobility (exlcuding GD hirelings) Arac PI Prince Otto von Bismark PC Lady Blanche PI Casilda GN Caesar PC The Czar PC Cyril ? PI Count Drquote Orsay PC Lord Dramaleigh (Honorary Chamberlain) UL Florian ? PI King Gama PI Go-To MK Guron PI Hamlet, Prince of Denmark PC Hannibal PC Helen of Troy SO Heliogabalus PP UL King Hildebrand PI Hillarion PI Princess Ida PI Princess Kalyba UL The Baroness von Krakenfeldt GD Lucius Junius Brutus MK UL Luiz GN Manfred ? PC Melissa ? PI The Mikado of Japan MK The Prince of Monre Carlo GD The Princess Monte Carlo GD Nanki-Poo MK Nekaya UL A Noble MK Paramount I UL Pish Tush MK The Duke of Plaza Toro GN The Duchess of Plaza Toro GN Pooh-Bah MK Potentate (Eastern) GD Lady Psyche PI King Roderick ? PC Rudolph (Grand Duke of Pfennig Halbpfennig) GD Scynthius PI The Lord Steward UL The Stranger PC The Lord High Treasurer UL King Victor Emmanuel PC The Lord in Waiting UL Yum-Yum MK Princess Zara UL Chorus of nobles MK 10 Widows Lady Blanche ? PI Mrs Cripps (Little Buttercup) PF Mrs Partlet SO Lady Sangazure SO 11 Widowers Captain Corcoran PF King Gama ? PI King Hildebrand ? PI Sergeant Meryll YG King Paramount I UL The Prince of Monte Carlo ? GD Sir Marmaduke Pointdextere SO Major General Stanley ?? PP 12 Fathers/sons Lord Chancellor & Strephon IO Gama & Arac, Guron & Scynthus PI Hildebrand & Hilarion PI Sergeant Meryll & Leonard YG Mikado of Japan & Nanki-Poo MK Sir M. Pointdextere & Alexis SO 13 Mothers/daughters Lady Blanche & Melissa PI Mrs Partlet & Constance SO Nature & Yum-Yum MK The Duch of Plaza T & Casilda GN Lady Sangazure & Aline SO 14 Fathers/daughters Captain Corcoran & Josephine PF King Gama & Ida PI Sergeant Meyrll & Phoebe YG The Prince & Princess of Monte Carlo GD King Paramount & Zara, Nekaya & Kalyba UL The Duke of Plaza T & Casilda GN Presumptios & Pretteia TH Major General Stanley & all females except Ruth in PP 15 Mothers/sons Iolanthe & Strephon IO Inez & either Marco or Guiseppi GN 16 Kisses 1st Bridsmaid & note from Judge TJ Bee and Lily RG Citizenry & Elsie (attempted) YG Criminal & Pitti Sing (blown) MK Cyril & anything that moves PI Fairfax & Phoebe (shamelessly) YG Guiseppi & Tessa GN Hilarian & Mistress Lalage PI Iolanthe & Phylis IO Julia & Ludwig (recommended) GD King Paramount & Lady Sophy UL Ko-Ko & Yum-Yum MK Lisa & Ludwig (recalled) GD Marco & Gianetta GN Nanki-Poo & Yum-Yum MK Jack Point and kitchen wench (hypothetical) YG Pheobe and Leonard YG Plaintiff & note from Judge TJ Richard & Rose RG Richard & Zorah RG Sparkeion & Nicemis TH Strephon & elderly relatives (hypothetical) IO Tipseion & Thespis' robe TH 17 Animals Baboon GD Bat RG Beasts (wild) YG Bees IO RG Beetle (black) YG GD Beings (animalculus) PP Bird (mountain) PF Bird (night) RG Birds IO YG UL Bluebottles PC Brill PF Bulls PF YG Cat PF RG Cattle (Herds that low) IO UL Chicken PF UL Cock RG PI YG Cock (on a hill) YG Cockatrice YG Crawly things GD Creepy things (with wings) SO Crow UL Crow (carrion) YG Dog (Black & Tan (half-bred)) PC Dog TH PF IO RG YG GD Dogs (black) RG Donkey TH PI GD Duck GL Eagle UL Earthworm RG Fawn UL Fish PC RG IO MK UL GD Flea GL Fly IO RG Fowl GD Fox PF RG UL Frogs PF PP IO Goldfish IO Goose PI MK GL GD Grouse IO Guinea pig UL Hens PI Herring YG Horse PI MK GL GD Horses (team of, including wheelers & leaders) GD Horses (pair of) GL Horses (hunters) TH Hounds UL Jackdaws PF Kid GD Ladybird RG Lambs PF Lark RG Leman GD Lion MK UL Lobster TH PI Mole UL Maggot RG YG Mermaids PP Mice PC YG Monkey PI Opossum RG Owl (night) YG Oxen TH RG Panther GD Peacock PF YG Piggy-wigs PI Pigs TH PI Pigeon TH Poultry TH PI Puppee RG Rat GD Rooks IO Salmon IO Sheep TH RG Sheep (black) PF Sheep (Flocks that bleat) IO Shrimps PC Skylark YG Snail GD Snake GD Spiders GD Srows IO UL Squirrel RG MK Storks PF Swan GL Swine RG Tadpole RG Tiger MK UL Tiger Cat RG Toads SO Tom Tit MK Turbot PF Turtle GD Turtle Dove YG UL Viviparians UL Weasels PI Weevil RG Worm MK UL -- David Duffey (known as "dad") Jill Duffey (known as "mum") John Duffey (known as "Sheepy") Elizabeth Duffey (known as "Lizzie") 107....PE1 3LE (England) and we have a phone/fax machine.... (+44) (0)1733 52791  1,, Summary-line: 22-Feb David Duffey #Re Dear, dear, dear, (Amendment # 2) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22356; Sat, 22 Feb 97 08:28:31 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA01530; Sat, 22 Feb 97 08:28:29 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA16000; Sat, 22 Feb 199 7 08:28:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:28:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re Dear, dear, dear, (Amendment # 2) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** 7 08:28:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:28:23 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re Dear, dear, dear, (Amendment # 2) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 Many thanks to the sharp-eyed and knowledgeable people who have joined in my fun with the lists. Herewith the latest amendment list. Anyone wishing to have the whole lot up to date, please ask by private mail. David Amendment list 2 3 Serving Officers of HM armed forces Captain of HMS Tom Tit 6 Foodstuffs Ambrosia TH Bean (french) PC Potato PC 8 Characters who do not appear Brigand (highly respectable and well established) GN Captain of HMS Tom Tit RG Ladies of Gentle Degree RG Sons of the Tillage RG 17 Animals Ass add PI Bat add GD Beasts (wild) add RG Bird (Dicky) MK Dogs (Buckhounds) MK Guinea Pig add MK Lion add IO Owl (barndoor) UL Squirrel add YG delete MK Tom Tit add RG To 7 Beverages add Barley Water RG (To Tea add RG as well) In 5 British Monarchs King Arthur should be PP (not PF). -- our address is: 107....PE1 3LE (England) and we have a phone/fax machine.... (+44) (0)1733 52791  1,, Summary-line: 22-Feb P. D. PARKER #1953 Film G & S story Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA10968; Sat, 22 Feb 97 19:05:33 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14036; Sat, 22 Feb 97 19:05:31 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA05548; Sat, 22 Feb 199 7 19:05:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:05:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970223000014.20efbb60@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: 1953 Film G & S story Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** 7 19:05:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:05:27 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: 1953 Film G & S story Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Re the query as to who played which parts in this film. The following information is taken from the information folder which was originally issued about this film and which runs to some 452 pages of closely typed foolscap data: Gilbert and Sullivan Cast List W.S.Gilbert.................Robert Morley Arthur Sullivan.............Maurice Evans Helen 'Lenoir' D'Oyly Carte.Eileen Herlie Richard D'Oyly Carte........Peter Finch George Grossmith............Martyn Green Grace Marston...............Dinah Sheridan Mrs Gilbert.................Isabel Dean Mr Marston..................Wilfred Hyde White Queen Victoria..............Muriel Aked Louis.......................Michael Ripper Joseph Bennett..............Lloyd Lamble Cellier.....................Richard Warner Letty.......................Perlita neilson Smythe......................Leonard Sachs Theatre Manager.............Philip Ray Captain of the 'Bothnia'....Ian Wallace Ferguson....................John Rae Painter.....................Joe Clarke Architect...................Christopher Banks Stage Manager...............George Cross Reporter....................George Woodbridge Pressman....................Howard Douglas Doorman.....................Robert Brooks Turner Office Boy..................John Quayle Artistes portraying members of the original D'Oyly Carte Opera Company. George Grossmith............Martyn Green Jessie Bond.................Bernadette O'Farrell Pribcipal Soprano...........Ann Hanslip Principal Tenor.............Anthony Snell Principal Contralto.........Muriel Brunskill Prnciplal Bass baritone.....Owen Brannigan Judge (Trial by Jury).......Harold Williams Bride (Trial by Jury).......Yvonne Marsh Defendant (Trial by Jury)...Thomas Round Nanki Poo (Mikado)..........Thomas Round Counsel (Trial by Jury).....Kenneth Downey Gianetta and Peep-Bo........Sylvia Clarke Ancestral Ghost (Ruddigore).Gron Davies Usher (Trial by Jury).......Arthur Howard Pish Tush (Mikado)..........Kenneth Moseley Strephon (Iolanthe).........John Banks Bosun's Mate (Pinafore).....John Hughes Midshipman (Pinafore).......Richard Morris There then follows a complete list of the actors and actresses portraying members of the chorus of DOC. I can list if required. Following that is a list of the singers whose voices were used. They were:- Webster Booth Elsie Morrison Marjorie Thomas John Cameron Grodon Clinton Owen Brannigan Harold Williams Thomas Round Muriel Brunskill Jennifer Vyvyan Joan Gillingham As to the query on 'stills': there is an index of these which runs to 7 foolscap pages. They are grouped into Portrait, Publicity and Production and then listed by subject. All rather complex but there must be hundreds. For many of the artistes listed above the book provides a biography and background. This book weighs 5 and one half pounds and is two and one half inches thick, foolscap size. A number of these artistes were connected with DOC but you will need to consult Rollins & Witts for that detail. I cannot comment on the cuts or audio quality as I have not purchased the present version now being sold but do have other versions recorded 'off air'. Although I was at the premier of this film (and still have the tickets) it is too long ago in my memory to compare the broadcast versions with the original for cuts. I did see it shown in Philly last year and apart from one glitch when Gilbert was portrayed walking downstairs on the new disputed carpet (and which I understand has been put right in the copies now on sale), it appeared to me to be otherwise complete. At least it is not broken up with advertisements as was the channel 4 versions. I expect to be at Buxton this year and will bring this book (folder) with me, as I did last year. If anyone wants to consult it, they are welcome. I shall not take it to USA because of its weight, sorry! Peter D Parker. pdp@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Summary-line: 26-Feb Mark Beckwith #Re: Modern Major General Societies List Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24730; Wed, 26 Feb 97 13:31:45 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21740; Wed, 26 Feb 97 13:31:43 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA17314; Wed, 26 Feb 199 7 13:31:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:31:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970226122759.230f140a@ionet.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mark Beckwith To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Modern Major General Societies List X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** 7 13:31:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:31:42 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mark Beckwith To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Modern Major General Societies List X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) At 02:24 PM 2/25/97 -0300, you wrote: >Mark >Can you please send me the info on Opera A La Carte >Thanks...RD Hi. Sorry. Swamped. Here it is: >Group OPERA A LA CARTE >Address P.O. BOX 39606A, LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90039 >Contact Name & Position/Title RICHARD SHELDON, ARTISTIC DIRECTOR FOR INFORMAL QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION DO NOT TROUBLE RICHARD SHELDON. DIRECT THIS TO MARK BECKWITH INSTEAD ON THE INTERNET - swca@ionet.net >Telephone; Fax, Email, Website 818 791-0844. NO EMAIL, FAX OR WEBSITE >G&S Presentations (exclusive, mostly, occasionally) PROFESSIONAL REPERTORY COMPANY WITH THE FOLLOWING FULL PRODUCTIONS (I.E. STAGED AND COSTUMED W/ORCHESTRA) AVAILABLE: PINAFORE, PIRATES, MIKADO, PATIENCE, GONDOLIERS, TRIAL, THE ZOO, COX&BOX - ALSO: HIGHLIGHTS AND CONCERT EXCERPTS W&W/O ORCHESTRA, SPECIAL APPEARANCES W/SYMPHONY ORCHESTRAS >Future Playbill: (opera and month for presentation) TOURS TO NEW ENGLAND, OKLAHOMA/ARKANSAS ON THE BOOKS FOR 97-99. <<>> Most Frequently Asked Question: WHY HAVE I NEVER HEARD OF OPERA A LA CARTE? Opera A La Carte is a professional Gilbert & Sullivan repertory company in existence since 1970. I first sang in the chorus of 'Mikado' in 1978 and moved up to principal roles in 1985. I moved away from Los Angeles in 1995 and have gone back a few times to appear, but (sadly for me) have been pretty much replaced at this point. I now do some management work for Richard and the company. We are on friendly terms. Richard Sheldon is an EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE business man. Over the years, we have 'passed' on what most people would think of as very "Golden Opportunities:" A line of videos produced by Lloyds of London - Tours of Japan and Australia - We were first considered for "Foul Play" but NYCO won out because of the showiness of their (gag) Kabuki make-up (my colleague James Billings is still rather bitter about how they carefully snipped all of Ko-Ko's scenework to avoid adding him to the payroll) - Most recently we turned down that 'Wyatt Earp' movie which called for a snippet of 'Pinafore' in a saloon. It is not for me to comment on the wisdom of these decisions, but suffice to say Opera A La Carte is a very well-kept secret. Here is the other part of the reason: Opera A La Carte has nothing resembling a season of its own. We are strictly wholesale. We never accept ANY risk - i.e. any venue, series, or other sponsor who hires Opera A La Carte essentially negotiates a fee with Richard and pays it, whether anyone comes to see it or not. It is THEIR responsibility to do PR, ticket sales, etc., NOT OURS. We go in, do the show, take the check, and head out. Hence, the only publicity we EVER give Opera A La Carte is at trade shows and booking conferences - places the public are largely unaware of. Pretty cool, huh? 'Been that way for 27 years. We're booked at least a year, sometimes 2 or 3 in advance, we're solvent, the company has a business office in Los Angeles. We've got all the sets and costumes of all these companies in stock and ready to roll. Not to mention about 27 on the stage and 25 in the pit, plus accompanists, costume, wigs and make-up staff. We travel in 2 busses and one big Ryder truck, and usually take 2 productions on tour together, although since we took ONLY Mikado to New England in 1992, Richard thinks taking more than 1 production just isn't worth the trouble, but still, offering 2 makes it easier to fill the calendar when the company goes on the road. Next Most Frequently Asked Question: HOW DO I JOIN AND CAN I MAKE A LIVING AT IT? Please do not trouble Richard Sheldon. If you want to chat about your future as the next Martyn Green, chat with me. Only the serious need apply. 'Serious' means a well-rounded base in comedy, music, theatre, dance, opera, etc - just like any other professional opera company. Move to Los Angeles, and be prepared to find yourself a whole lot of other work - difficult for the 'new-in-town.' I was lucky enough to abandon my 'day job' in 1984 and keep food on the table solely by singing until I left in 1995. Food on the table? Can you say BOHEMIAN? Did you ever wonder why the musicians are always the last to leave the receptions? I once stuffed a whole cheese ball into my tux pocket. The biggest year I ever had with Opera A La Carte earned me just under $10,000 - which represented my single largest employer (out of about 8) and about 45% of my earnings for the year. We do this for other reasons than to get rich. I left California because I couldn't stand California (even thought I was born and raised there). Now I don't have the performing opportunities like I used to but I have moved on to conducting and directing - where there's a decent market for the talented. I make much more now that I used to, even based in Oklahoma, but I sure miss doing Ko-Ko's dance on the first two verses of 'How-de-do.' And the 'Bell trio.' And the 'Nightmare.' etc. Sorry to blabber on so. Feel free to strike up a chat about how you could band together and persuade your local Arts and Humanities Council to try and get Opera A La Carte to come to YOUR town. Mark Beckwith swca@ionet.net P.S. Richard WHO? Richard worked for Adams and Round in their company Gilbert And Sullivan For All when he was about my age now. He's Very British and moved to America to, guess WHAT?, start his own professional Gilbert and Sullivan Company. Over his years he's amassed quite a track record as a G&S specialist. Shoot, the absolute high points for me (besides the comic roles in general) were doing Samuel to Donald Adams' Pirate King and Giuseppe to his Don Alhambra. Richard and Donald were very good pals right up to Donald's death last spring. Donald appeared with us as Guest Artist on several memorable occasions. He is missed.  1,, Summary-line: 11-Mar Ronald Orenstein #Re: The Contrabandista Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09836; Tue, 11 Mar 97 17:46:22 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11055; Tue, 11 Mar 97 17:46:21 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA02317; Tue, 11 Mar 199 7 17:45:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:45:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970311174228.0072350c@inforamp.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ronald Orenstein To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Contrabandista X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) *** EOOH *** 7 17:45:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:45:43 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ronald Orenstein To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Contrabandista X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) At 05:07 PM 3/11/97 -0500, you wrote: > Some years ago I ran across the vocal score to The Contrabandista in the >Cincinnati Public Library and made a photocopy of it. On a subsequent trip >to Washington, D.C., I discovered a copy of the libretto in the Library of >Congress. It was so old that it was falling apart, but I copied out the >dialogue by hand and eventually recreated the libretto. With a group of >friends we recorded the entire show, dialogue and all, over a year's period, >and produced an audio recording. I sent the libretto to Jim Farron, and he >has just added it to the archives. Should anyone care to have a copy of the >audio cassette, I will be glad to duplicate it if you send me a 100 minute >blank cassette. While it is an admittedly amateur production, it should give >you a good idea of what the opera (poor thing that it is) sounds like. > >Douglas Whaley > To which I should add - I have been creating MIDI files from my copy of the score (which I copied from one in the University of Michigan Music Library for yet another amateur recording of the piece back in 1971. Jim Farron hopes to add these to the archive soon - I have completed all of Act I except the finale and "Only the Night Wind Sighs Alone" which was available beforehand. I am hoping to get the whole opera done soon, but I'm off to Florida tomorrow (though I should still have email) till the 21st and then off the England at the end of the month, so there may be a bit of a delay before I get the rest done. Unlike the other "Web Operas" this will be as straight a rendition of the piano-vocal score as I can manage (Sullivan did his own reduction). Watch for an instrumental (ie piano) bolero that anticipates Ravel in its main theme - one of Sullivan's most fetching moments IMHO. That one is the latest one I have completed and sent on to Andrew and Jim. Despite some dreadful text this is a delightful score which Savoynetters should get to know better. -- Ronald I. Orenstein Phone: (905) 820-7886 International Wildlife Coalition Fax/Modem: (905) 569-0116 1825 Shady Creek Court Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5L 3W2 Internet: ornstn@inforamp.net  1,, Summary-line: 22-Mar David Duffey #OOTW YG: the source whence I get them Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22383; Sat, 22 Mar 97 02:07:09 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28866; Sat, 22 Mar 97 02:07:02 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id CAA24640; Sat, 22 Mar 199 7 02:06:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:06:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: OOTW YG: the source whence I get them X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** 7 02:06:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:06:58 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: OOTW YG: the source whence I get them X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 As a matter of record for the OOTW tome, as this subject was well covered some months ago, the narrative and dramatic structure of Yeomen is very similar to that of The Mikado in the following particulars: Soprano and patter baritone have 'an understanding' (soprano reluctant). Soprano marries tenor (who is under sentence of death by beheading) Patter baritone has expectation of marrage with soprano after the decapitation. Patter baritone and 'heavy' baritone conspire to bear false witness to the death of tenor. Contralto's silence bought by marrage. Additional character introduced to provide voice in four part madrigal. david -- The family Duffey: our address is: 107....PE1 3LE (England) and we have a phone/fax machine.... (+44) (0)1733 52791  1,, Summary-line: 24-Mar Marc Shepherd #Re: vocal scores (fwd) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA16458; Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:59:38 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB04718; Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:59:33 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA27605; Mon, 24 Mar 199 7 21:58:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:58:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <33373AE9.2534@cris.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: vocal scores (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b2 (Win95; I) *** EOOH *** 7 21:58:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:58:50 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Marc Shepherd To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: vocal scores (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b2 (Win95; I) Ralph MacPhail, Jr. wrote, on behalf of a friend: > Greetings! Do you have any reference to points which may > distinguish various editions of the Sullivan vocal scores? For example, it > seems clear that the printer Henderson, Rait and Spalding on the vocal score > puts it as an earlier edition than one with Henderson & Spalding. But I > have scores with Henderson and Spalding with different addresses and would > like to get some idea as to publication dates based on those addresses. > Have you gotten into such bibliographic minutiae as this? Any idea who > might be interested in this? Ralph, would this be something that could be > asked on Savoynet if there wasn't a clear cut answer? This has long been one of my points of interest. There are basically two ways to date a score, assuming it doesn't have a date written or printed on it. Rafe's correspondent has identified one: drawing inferences from the the cover and front/endpapers. There are many examples of this, including: -- Track changes in the publisher's address and/or corporate name (the example above) -- Chappell scores published before 1901 cite Richard D'Oyly Carte as the person to contact for performing rights; those published after 1901 cite Rupert D'Oyly Carte. -- The covers and/or endpapers often have advertisements, and for the earlier scores, you can draw inferences from what is, or is not, advertised. For example, a score for H.M.S. PINAFORE might advertise other G&S vocal scores that are available. If THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD is not one of them, you almost certainly have a pre-1888 score. -- Similarly, the covers and/or endpapers may advertise some other work, perhaps with the designation "newly available." If you know when that work was written, you can date the score reasonably accurately. -- Most of the early Chappell scores list the original casts and the major revival casts. By examining which revivals are and are not listed, you often can narrow down the date of a score. The other way to date a score is to compare note-by-note, word-by-word, page-by-page against a known baseline. This can help you in a two ways: 1. Musical and/or textual differences that you find often can be dated to particular revivals. 2. If Version X has an obvious error that is corrected in Y, you can usually assume that Y is later than X. It's hard to get more specific than this without looking at examples, but this is the basic idea. -- Marc Shepherd Home: oakapple@cris.com Work: mshepherd@sbi.com Web: http://www.cris.com/~oakapple  1,, Summary-line: 25-Mar David Duffey #And this is for you, my little man Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27758; Tue, 25 Mar 97 23:23:02 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26983; Tue, 25 Mar 97 23:22:51 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA08494; Tue, 25 Mar 199 7 23:23:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:23:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: And this is for you, my little man X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** 7 23:23:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:23:00 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: And this is for you, my little man X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 Do you know about/remember sherbet lemons? They are (or were, its YEARS since I had one) a type of sweet (candy), with a lemon flavoured outer casing which, once breached inside the mouth, was found to contain sherbet, a kind of fizzy powder. During my childhood in war-torn and sugar-deprived Britain they were a highly prized taste sensation. The effect was quite like putting a slice of lemon into one's mouth; they certainly made one salivate. Sweets were rationed until just before the Coronation and the allowance for one individual was 2oz per week. My first ever G&S part was as a seven-year-old, during the war. I was Tom Tucker and my Auntie Vera engineered things so that I could wear the TT costume to be page boy at her wedding. The wedding cake was a magnificent four tier construction - three of cardboard with only the smallest upper layer being edible, and that made mainly from carrots. The peppermint rock which Buttercup gave me each performance was made of cardboard too. After the war, but well before the end of sweet-rationing, I played my second part: Yum-Yum. It was a school for boys only, and the end-of-year G&S was a long established tradition. My life, and that of a few other small boys, had been made a misery by an eighteen-year-old bully called James Millard - I have no compunction about naming him, and anyways I'm bigger now than he is - who shared the same half hour train ride morning and evening. One of his meaner tortures was to rob us of our sherbet lemons and force us to watch him lasciviously sucking them. Impartial fate made him my Nanki-Poo. There is a certain song in The Mikado which, when played by artists of the same sex, requires a certain degree of understanding. In our case it involved some nifty fan work. On the last performance, term completed and the bully already having technically left school, my parents in the audience and sure to accompany me home, surrounded by hordes of friends backstage, I waited my moment. So, in spite of all temptation, Such a theme I'll not discuss, And on no consideration Will I kiss you fondly thus - NP opens fan and holds it in front of faces - YY pops a sherbet lemon into NP's mouth. Revenge is sweet. david -- The family Duffey: our address is: 107....PE1 3LE (England) and we have a phone/fax machine.... (+44) (0)1733 52791  1,, Summary-line: 5-Apr PZAVON@delphi.com #Review: Pirates of Greece (NY) [long] Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA23786; Sat, 5 Apr 97 11:47:11 EST Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03943; Sat, 5 Apr 97 11:47:02 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.bridgewater.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA23611; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:46:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:46:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <01IHCFPU9YI09I5YA2@delphi.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: PZAVON@delphi.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Review: Pirates of Greece (NY) [long] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:46:43 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: PZAVON@delphi.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Review: Pirates of Greece (NY) [long] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum First, imagine the theatre; a 2500 seat auditiorium (main floor and balcony) with a fully equipped, modern, Broadway-sized stage and orchestra pit. It is called The Theatre on the Ridge and is one part of a 5 story recreational complex built in the 1950's by Eastman Kodak for the use of Kodak employees. The Theatre on the Ridge was opened to non-Kodak use only 7 years ago, and is one of the three largest theatrical stage facilities in the metropolitan Rochester, NY, area. Now imagine a Middle School production of the Joseph Papp version of Pirates of Penzance on such a stage. That's what I saw last night. The Greece Athena Middle School mounted a six performance benefit production of Pirates in the Theatre on the Ridge. The result was colorful, active and energetic, and rather mind-boggling. For our non-North American participants, a middle school houses children in the 7th and 8th grades (roughly 12-14 years old). For our participants outside western New York State, Greece is a large suburb on the west side of Rochester. Even though there are no schools named Athena Middle or Olympia High elsewhere in the region, they are always refered to as Greece Athena or Greece Olympia, etc. I have no idea why. It must be a tradition. Imagine walking into the Kodak Recreation building, taking the elevator or escalator to the second floor, walking past the raffle ticket sales table, the flower sales table, the table where they sell clip-on Pirates buttons and black piratical eye-patches for $1 each, past the video tape ordering table, past the Silent Auction for 4 Rosie O'Donnell T-shirts, past the colorful photos of cast and crew, and into the Theatre Lobby. You are directed to one of five doors to the auditorium, each of which has a gaggle of Middle School students, eager to show you to your seat. In my case, that was Section B, Row B, Seat 2 - second row from the front, on the aisle. I had a great view, except for the fact that I could not see the whole stage at a glance. If I was watching something interesting on Stage Left, I had no idea what I might be missing on Stage Right, or perhaps even Center Stage. Now, imagine an on-stage cast of nearly 300. How many of you have ever had enough of a chorus to be able to put 50 Police on stage in Act 2 and still have enough to put 70 Pirates on stage - not to speak of the stage space to do that. While it is true these were not full grown adults, they were not _that_ small, most of them anyway. The printed program had a pull-out supplement of 8 pages listing volunteers, presumably mostly parents, in such categoroies as Costumes, Cast Party, Phone Tree, Props, Rehearsal/Backstage Chaperons, Set Construction, Dressers, Flowers, Makeup, Intermission Chaperone, Hair, Concessions, Tickets, Publicity, Greeters, Meals, and Ushers. The main prigram was 44 pages long. It included full page descriptions of the two charities receiving the benefit of the production, as well as several orgainzation which supported the production. The cast list was in alphabetical order by surname of the cast members. In addition to the Principals, and long lists of The Pirates, The Police, and the Maidens, there were two other smaller cast groups, called The Sisters and Main Pirates. There was no indication in the program as to what function these groups might play. I might mention that Jimmy Lobaugh, of the Off-Monroe Players and late of the University of Michigan G&S Society, was Dramatic and Character Advisor, working with many of the leads to develop character and stage presence. Accompaniment was provided by an orchestra of flutes (3), clarinet, Alto Sax, Bassoon, trumpets (3), trombone, Bass, Keyboard, and drums. Act 1 opened with Pirates, Pirates everywhere on 256 feet of rocks and dunes (the fronts of risers). The stage left curtain legs were raised to reveal a 35 foot, three-masted, square rigged pirate vessal named the Taratula. (The program claimed it was made of 400 2x4x8's, but did not tell us how much canvas went inbto the sails, or rope into the rigging.) On deck were the Piratical Principals (Samuel, Ruth, King, Frederick) and a deck-full of Pirates. It became clear that the Pirates on deck were the "Main Pirates" and had been directed more individually than had the rest of the Piratical Chours. The Tarantula turned and sailed (rolled) onto the stage (powered, according to the program, by 10 galley slaves and one task master), providing additional levels from which to perform. This vessel was just the sort of ship most of us would like to see as the Xebeque in the Gondoliers Act 1 Finale. But that is another story. The production was necessarily miked. As the microphones continued to drop out randomly during the performance, this presented something of a problem. I must admit that I came to the performance extremely tired fropm a long day's work, and the comfortable chair and darkened surroundings did not help me maintian an active focus on the performance during the first act. This was especially a problem for me when all Pirates and all Maidens were on stage. The chorus wore individual, and very colorful, costumes, and the effect of uniform motions of such a large chorus on the exhausted one in the second row was quite hipnotic. My eyes closed more than once, I fear. Yet I do recall the Major General (Jeffrey Locke) entering, and looking and sounding a great deal older than his 14 years in his mutton chop whiskers. (The program says he likes baseball and hanging out with his friends, but he did pretty darned good as the MG.) Mabel (Jennifer DiCesare) was a standout. She is an 8th grade student who has been involved in singing "as long as she can remember." Her voice carried even when her microphone did not. Act 2, being somewhat less full of chorus on sttage, allowed more of the energy to show through, and I found myself following more closely. "Dry the Glistening Tear" included an 8-member ballet troup performing down stage during the chorus singing. This was an inventive way of providing movement and using such a large chorus. I have no doubt that the dancers were those listed in the program as "The Sisters." With 50 Policemen, "When the Foeman Bares His Steel" was a sight to behold. They had to march in from both sides of the stage to be in place on time. Mixed in with the usual marching was a substantial amount of choral soft-shoe routines. This worked very well, with the marching serving as the "drone" to the soft-shoe "melody." Then there was the Sergeant of Police (Joseph Reid). He was the acrobat of the cast, among other things. This 13 year old has been singing since the 2nd Grade. He has played piano for 4 years, violin for 2 years, and trumpet for one. He is also a gymnast and soccer and football player, and it shows. The fellow performed as if he had rubber bones and universal joints. At appropriate places in the songs he did acrobatic flips across the entire width of the stage! At one point he went from a squatting position to standing by way of a heels-over-head back flip from a static start. Very impressive. Looked like he was folding himself in two - backwards. and he could sing. Did I mention he seems to be about 6 feet tall? I fear diction (or enunciation) was poor in many cases. There was that second act trio, for example, which everyone in the auditorium must have been certain was about a pair of ducks - but no one explained what ducks had to do with the plot. You know it is the Papp version when they include the Matter Trio from Ruddigore. It was taken so fast that, even knowing the words, I could barely follow the first time through. The performers where quite unable to enunciate the line "we'll sing this song from Ruddigore" at that speed, let alone in the double time encore. I wonder what those unfamiliar with the show made of all that. (In fact, the vast majority of the audience was clearly unfamiliar with any version of Pirates.) The Pirate Ship Taratula was brought on again to deposit some of the Pirates for "Cat-like Tread," while others entered from left and right wings. Sword play for 120 followed and, amazingly, seemed to work. I might mention that most Pirates had wooden swords, in the exagerated shape of Moorish scimitars. Frederick and the King had real fencing foils (with buttons on) and engaged in some interesting sword bits throughout the show. The show ended with some poorly coordinated curtain calls, to a standing ovation. After all, the house was largely parents, sisters, cousins and aunts. Then the audience was invited to the nearby cafeteria for refreshements with the cast and crew. All in all, I think it was a very good performance for the age group involved and well worth the $7 ticket price. There are two more performaces scheduled - at 3pm and 7:30 pm today, Saturday, 5 April. I don't think I would fly in from New York City for this, unless perhaps I had a nephew in it , but it could well be worth an hour's drive. Peter Zavon Penfield, NY PZAVON@Delphi.com  1,, Summary-line: 10-Apr RCL1LTD@aol.com #untimely death of a friend Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29816; Thu, 10 Apr 97 12:04:19 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28315; Thu, 10 Apr 97 11:03:56 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA23521; Thu, 10 Apr 199 7 12:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <970410115136_1186713450@emout11.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: RCL1LTD@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: untimely death of a friend X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 12:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: RCL1LTD@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: untimely death of a friend X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Hi everyone, I've been off the net a while and this isn't my regular account, but I wanted to pass on this information - primarily for anyone who has been involved with the Barnard Gilbert and Sullivan Society from 1988-1992. It is with great sadness and shock that I''ve learned about the death of a dear friend - Gabe Weiner. Gabe died suddenly and unexpectedly of a heart attack in his apartment during the night of April 8. He was 26 years old. He was a great lover of Gilbert and Sullivan as well as classical music in general, and was in many G&S shows at Barnard G&S including Trial by Jury/ Sorcerer and Pirates (If I'm wrong about that feel free to correct me.) He also served as the publicity manager for Barnard G&S for 2 years for the Trial/Sorcerer, Pirates, Yeomen of the Guard, and Mikado performances. Gabe also was extremely involved with the Barnard Columbia Chorus (which used to rival the G&S group for the performances on campus) I won't get into details on that since it isn't relevant to G&S per se. He also founded a very successful business in NYC called Quintissential Sound which produced professional classical recordings for people. Funeral services will be held tomorrow morning at 10AM at the Great Synogogue in NY. THe exact address is on my other account which I don't have access to right now so I'll forward it when I get back home tonight. People can feel free to write to me either at this account (RCL1LTD@aol.com) between 8:30 - 5:30 if they need to talk or at cupid@mit.edu for exact information. (Be warned my aol account is NOT private. I share it with 5 people here so I will be unsubscribing this account from the S-net at the end of today.) For those Barnard G&S alumns out there (Ben? Sam? anyone else I don't know about) please tell anyone you know who knew Gabe about what happened. Thank you, Randi Kestin BC '92 cupid@mit.edu rcl1ltd@aol.com  1,, Summary-line: 11-Apr Daniel Kravetz #Tom Lehrer Trivia Contest Winners! (fwd) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22223; Fri, 11 Apr 97 00:04:51 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AB14201; Fri, 11 Apr 97 00:04:48 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA01101; Fri, 11 Apr 199 7 00:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Daniel Kravetz To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Tom Lehrer Trivia Contest Winners! (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** 7 00:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Daniel Kravetz To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Tom Lehrer Trivia Contest Winners! (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Mime-Version: 1.0 To all my Savoynet friends, here are the results of a little contest that was held on the rec.music.dementia newsgroup lately (for fans of novelty songs and comedy recordings). I could easily have been outscored by some of you (Sternenberg, Shepard, Cantor...?) if knowledge of the competition had been more widespread. Of course, I didn't tell any of you about it before it was all over, heh, heh...Anyway, enjoy! Dan Kravetz Gilbert & Sullivan Society of New York ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 10 APR 1997 02:56:14 GMT From: Jeff Morris Newgroups: rec.music.dementia Subject: Tom Lehrer Trivia Contest Winners! The Tom Lehrer Trivia Contest ended April 1, 1997. For those who missed it, the original posting of the rules is at the r.m.d web site: http://copper.ucs.indiana.edu/~jbmorris/ The basic goal of the contest was to find all of the places in Tom's songs where he uses musical quotations from other songs. The winners were: * 1st place: Daniel Kravetz (29) * 2nd place: Joan Manners & Rodney Yoder (23 each) * 3rd place: Jeff Balch (22) For the statistically-minded: * Entries: 26 * Range: lowest - 3; highest - 29 * Mean: 15.4 * Median: 17 * Mode: 18 (5) And now the moment you've all been waiting for... The Answers! Here are the 34 actual, intentional quotes, according to Tom himself. After reviewing the entries, there were a few others that were counted, which are listed below. Unless marked [sung] these quotations appear in the piano accompaniment only. Authors are also given: w. = words; m. = music; wm. = words and music Lehrer Song Original I Wanna Go Back To Dixie Dixie (wm. Daniel Emmett) I Wanna Go Back To Dixie Swanee [sung] (w. Irving Caesar, m. George Gershwin) I Wanna Go Back To Dixie That's What I Like About The South [sung] (wm. Andy Razaf) I Wanna Go Back To Dixie Home, Sweet Home [sung] (w. Henry Bishop, m. John Howard Payne) The Wild West Is Where I Want To Be Home On The Range (w. Brewster Higley, m. Daniel Kelley) Lobachevsky Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 [sung] (m. Franz Liszt) The Irish Ballad Souvenir (m. Franz Drdla) The Hunting Song Hunting Call, a/k/a Tantivy, or A-Hunting We Will Go (wm. unknown) The Wiener Schnitzel Waltz On The Beautiful Blue Danube, a/k/a The Blue Danube Waltz (w. Johann Strauss, Jr.) Bright College Days The Whiffenpoof Song [sung] (w. Meade Minnigerode, George Pomery, m. Tad Galloway, Guy Scull) A Christmas Carol Hark, The Herald Angels Sing [sung] (w. Charles Wesley, m. Felix Mendelssohn) A Christmas Carol God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen [sung] (wm. unknown) A Christmas Carol Angels We Have Heard On High [sung] (wm. unknown) The Elements The Major General's Song [sung] (from The Pirates Of Penzance) (w. W. S. Gilbert, m. Arthur Sullivan) In Old Mexico La Virgen de la Macarena (wm. B. B. Monterde, A. O. Calero) In Old Mexico Capriccio Espanol (m. Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov) Clementine Clementine (wm. Percy Montrose) Clementine La ci darem la mano (from Don Giovanni) (w. Lorenzo da Ponte, m. W. A. Mozart) Clementine Madamina, il catalogo e questo [sung] (from Don Giovanni) (w. Lorenzo da Ponte, m. W. A. Mozart) Clementine 52nd Street Theme [several, one sung] (m. Thelonius Monk) It Makes A Fellow Proud To Be A Soldier Reveille (wm. unknown) She's My Girl Can't Help Lovin' That Man (w. Oscar Hammerstein II, m. Jerome Kern) We Will All Go Together When We Go Down By The Old Mill Stream [sung] (wm. Tell Taylor) The Folk Song Army Venga Jaleo (Spanish Civil War song) (wm. unknown) The Folk Song Army If I Had A Hammer (wm. Lee Hays, Pete Seeger) Send The Marines The Marines' Hymn (w. unknown, m. based on song from Genevieve de Brabant by Jacques Offenbach) Pollution Can't Help Lovin' That Man [sung] (w. Oscar Hammerstein II, m. Jerome Kern) Whatever Became Of Hubert? Serenade [sung] (m. Franz Schubert) Alma Das Lied von der Erde (m. Gustav Mahler) Alma Symphony No. 2 (2nd movement) (m. Gustav Mahler) Alma Symphony No. 4 (2nd movement) (m. Gustav Mahler) Alma Symphony No. 9 (2nd movement) (m. Gustav Mahler) Wernher von Braun Deutschland Uber alles (w. Hoffmann von Fallersleben, m. Joseph Haydn) Wernher von Braun Ach, du lieber Augustin, a/k/a O, du lieber Augustin (wm. unknown) The following songs, though not intentional quotations, were counted in the final scoring. 1. Fight Fiercely, Harvard - The Thunderer's March (m. John Phillips Sousa): Tom thought that the lick he used to open this song was just standard, not attributed to anyone in particular, but a couple of people pointed out that its original source was this Sousa march. 2. Bright College Days - Aura Lee (wm. George R. Poulton): This was not an intentional quote, and Tom was unaware of it until a few people pointed it out. Since it was a song that he might've intentionally quoted here had he thought of it, he decided to accept it. 3. The Elements - Shave And A Haircut (m. Charles Hale): Many people submitted this as a quote. Tom wasn't going to count it because he said it was just a standard ending, but one person gave an author of Hale. It seems that Hale MAY have been the first to use it, in his piece "At A Darktown Cakewalk", so Tom decided to count it. The following were frequently submitted, but were not accepted as valid answers. 1. I Wanna Go Back To Dixie - Mammy: The quote that many people thought was "Mammy" was actually "Swanee". 2. Lobachevsky - Stanislavsky: "Lobachevsky" was definitely inspired by "Stanislavsky" (he even mentions this in the spoken intro), but Tom was careful not to copy the notes. In fact, in the original recording, he says "What I'm going to do" which is a line from "Stanislavsky", and he elminated that in later recordings to make sure he couldn't in any way be sued for copyright infringement. 3. A Christmas Carol - Jingle Bells: Tom intended the intro of this song to be similar to "Jingle Bells", but he did not copy the notes directly from "Jingle Bells", so it doesn't count. 4. In Old Mexico - Malaguena: "La Virgen de la Macarena" is the standard bullfight fanfare, and is what Tom quoted. Many people had this confused with "Malaguena". 5. Clementine - The Liberty Bell March (a/k/a Monty Python Theme): It does sound close to this, and I too thought this was a quote, but Tom said it was intended to sound like Gilbert & Sullivan's "My Name Is John Wellington Wells", but he was careful not to make it exactly like the latter either. 6. The Folk Song Army - Jimmy Crack Corn: He does mention this line from "The Blue Tail Fly" in "The Folk Song Army", but he does not use the music from the song at all, so it does not count. 7. The Folk Song Army - Malaguena: People got this confused with the Spanish Civil War song, "Venga Jaleo".  1,, Summary-line: 27-Apr Nathan Hull #Hollywood Pinafore take two Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA13228; Sun, 27 Apr 97 23:46:02 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27098; Sun, 27 Apr 97 23:46:01 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA12161; Sun, 27 Apr 199 7 23:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Nathan Hull To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Hollywood Pinafore take two X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 23:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Nathan Hull To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Hollywood Pinafore take two X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum First, my apologies to the 'Net: My Eudora mail program added lots of the first time I sent this, so if you couldn't read my rather long note that time around, here it is in the bitstream again! (Pleeeeaaaasssse work this time...) --NH ********* OK, Savoynetters, here it is: the semi-promotional, semi-reportorial, semi-confessional account of the current production of... (drum roll, please, for the promotional part!) $$ $$ $$ $$ $$ $ $ $ $ $ $$ $ $ $$ $$ $ $ $$ $$ $$ $$$ $$$$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$ $$ $$ $$$$$ $$$$$ $$ $ $ $$ $$ $$ $ $ $$ $ $$ $$$$ $ $ $ $$ $ $$ $$ $$$$ $$ $ $$$ $$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$$ $ $ $ $$$ $ $ $ $ $$$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$$ $$$$$$$$ $$ $$ $ $$$$ $$ $$$$ $$$ Yes! It's "Hollywood Pinafore" by George S. Kaufman and Sir Arthur Sullivan (with "deepest apologies" to William S. Gilbert). Reset by the author (of Kaufman & Hart fame) to the Hollywood of the 1940's, this version of Pinafore is a very biting satire of the movie studio system, where Kaufman himself had been kept "prisoner" for many years. Originally done on Broadway in 1945 in a production headlining Victor Moore as Joe Porter, the head of Pinafore Pictures, and William Gaxton as Dick Live-Eye, an agent, "Hollywood Pinafore" was a moderate success, but a war-weary country turned instead to a small musical up the street called, I believe, "Carousel." Since then, the adaptation has only survived because it was excerpted in Kaufman's book "By George." (And that doesn't really give the whole flavor!) At last, however, Theatre Ten-Ten of New York City has tracked down the original script by going directly to the Kaufman family, and will present the very first New York revival of the whole play starting this week (and running through the end of May). Speaking with my Savoyard hat on, lots of G&S adaptations suffer because they don't rethink the material from the ground up. Not true here. Although he follows the bare outlines of the story (with a few surprises) and keeps most of the music, Kaufman was one of this century's best comic minds, and certainly has his own agenda. Having lived with this script morning, noon and..., I can truthfully report that Kaufman has done the rarest of things: he has created new characters with their own lives, own preposterous agendas, and own foibles out of the older work. Although it owes a huge debt to the original, and the author merrily laughs and winks to his indebtedness, it is a new work of art with its own sensibilities and feeling. I originally thought the transplant would be incomprehensible to a modern audience, but I have finally realized that Hollywood of the 20s, 30s, and 40s will always exist as a mythical place in our collected consciousness: Starlets, sunglasses, limos, studio bosses, central casting, child stars. We know these as well as Kaufman's original audience. And when the play merrily drops the names of Spencer Tracy, Clark Cable, Betty Grable and Lana Turner, we are immediately in on the joke. Of course, Kaufman knew them all first hand, which only adds to the fun! So here are the new characters: Joe Porter is the studio boss who gets paid $3 million a year, who wants his afternoon graham crackers and milk while he rests from chasing starlets. Little "Butter-Up" is the gossip columnist "Louhedda Hopsons." Mike Corcoran is a highly paid director whose daughter, Josephine, has taken the screen name of "Brenda Blossom." She is in love with a lowly writer, Ralph, who only makes $75 dollars a week, far less than even the doorman. Writers are kept in the dungeon. Writers are never asked their opinion. Nobody would ever marry a writer. Hmmm... Sounds like Kaufman had an ax to grind, no? (Of course, I haven't even told you about the Story Conference where they end up gagging the writer, then plugging his ears and finally blindfolding him! Subtlety is not exactly in Kaufman's plans.) And the lyrics? Well, from the opening chorus of "We are simple movie folk, of the wood that's known as Holly!" they are brimming with clever invention. I'm particularly fond of Little Butter-Up describing the power of a gossip columnist: My mere disapproval can mean your removal; Take care not to merit my scorn; So you who have known me will do well to phone me Before you are married or born. Of course, I wouldn't be honest if I didn't say I had an attachment to the lyrics get to sing as Porter describing his final ascent to the lofty position of studio boss: So all you shlemiehls, whoever you may be If you want to rise to the top of the tree, If you wouldn't be regarded as a darned old fool, Be careful to be guided by this golden rule: Just turn your back 'neath the mistletoe, And you all may be rulers of the studio! And, now, the final commercial message: I wanted to do this show not only because I thought the script highly amusing, but because I wanted to work with the director, David Fuller. Indeed my suspicions were correct: This may just be about the best production I have been involved with in my "x" decades of theatrical endeavors. So quite apart from my involvement in the project, I honestly think if you are a Savoyard within any reasonable striking distance of New York, you will HATE yourself if you don't see this show. So, the particulars: The show runs Thursday through Sunday, from May 1st to May 25th. Since it is only being done with piano, tickets are a modest $12, with reservations at (212) 288-3246, extension 3. The theatre is at 1010 Park Ave in New York. And, if you are only able to see our production vicariously through cyberspace, consider suggesting "Hollywood Pinafore" to your performing group. Here is a great script which will give any performing group a change of pace, but without straying toooo far from the Canon! --Nathan Hull hull@cs.nyu.edu  1,, Summary-line: 21-May Helga Perry #When do we play the National Anthem? Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21971; Wed, 21 May 97 20:40:16 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA26912; Wed, 21 May 97 20:39:31 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA13177; Wed, 21 May 199 7 20:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Helga Perry To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: When do we play the National Anthem? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 beta 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** 7 20:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Helga Perry To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: When do we play the National Anthem? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 beta 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 In article <97May21.080305edt.13836@gateway.intersys.com>, Mary Finn writes > (which is odd, because I thought the tradition in >the England is to play it afterwards) Until the early 1960s it was usual to have the National Anthem at the end of performances. Now it's done (when at all) at the beginning. Where I attended school, just on the English side of the Welsh border, we used to begin concerts with Land of my Fathers [that's the Welsh National Anthem] and end with The Queen. My late father told me that Oswestry & District AOS performed PINAFORE at about the time this changeover was being made. The conductor entered, bowed to the audience, raised his baton, pointed to the percussionist who duly started the drum roll for The Queen, but several of the orchestra didn't realise and started playing the overture (which also begins with a drum roll). Much confusion and amusement ensued. The same thing has been known to happen with performances of Rossini's THIEVING MAGPIE overture. At the Cotswold Savoyards' production of TRIAL BY JURY / NOT IN FRONT OF THE WAITER / THE ZOO last week we played The Queen before every performance, including the Saturday matinee. Yes, I had great fun making them all jump out of their skins with that drum roll ;) Starting with the National Anthem has one important benefit in that it allows the orchestra players to play themselves in. Most musicians I know are quite happy to play it if only for that reason. But ours only lasts 14 bars/measures and it's one of the easiest to play. Oh, and on these occasions it is normally only played, NOT sung! The audience stands. It's a sign of the times that people these days don't immediately leap to their feet when they hear the drum. Personally, I think it's nice that the Americans do perform their National Anthem as much as they do at public events, sports etc. and fly their flag. If anyone would like a decent set of orchestra parts for The Queen, e-mail me and I'll send you my Composite National Anthem Score. Suits pretty well any combination of instruments. Also available in the same format: La Marseillaise. Helga (who played O Canada in Ottawa in 1975 and was booed) Helga Perry helga@grhlib.demon.co.uk Gloucestershire Royal Hospital Library ****************** "My voice is small but disagreeable" (attrib. George Gershwin 1898-1937)  1,, Summary-line: 22-May David Duffey #Re: GSTQ Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28804; Thu, 22 May 97 12:11:21 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23489; Thu, 22 May 97 12:10:35 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA20999; Thu, 22 May 199 7 12:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GSTQ X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 *** EOOH *** 7 12:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dduffey@argonet.co.uk (David Duffey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GSTQ X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Mime-Version: 1.0 On Thu 22 May 97 (10:49:39), bkelly@snet.net wrote: >At recent performances of the Yale, the Harvard, and the MIT G&S >societies, the audiebce was asked to stand, and God Save the Queen was >played and sung. > >In all three cases, two verses were sung. The second verse involved >calling on God to "confound her [the Queen's] enemies" or the like. > >Could someone post all three verses (or a source for them)? Is it >known who wrote them? >-- > > God save our gracious Queen, Long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. (pom pom pom pom) Send her victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us: God save the Queen. O Lord our God, arise, Scatter our enemies, (!) And make them fall; Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks; On Thee our hopes we fix; God save us all. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign. May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen. Music: Thesaurus Musicus c1743 Words: Anon., c1743. David -- The family Duffey: our address is: 107....PE1 3LE (England) and we have a phone/fax machine.... (+44) (0)1733 52791  1,, Summary-line: 30-May Dorothy Laoang #When I was a lad/Star Trek parody Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12862; Fri, 30 May 97 23:35:18 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06343; Fri, 30 May 97 23:35:18 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA16997; Fri, 30 May 199 7 23:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 23:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Dorothy Laoang To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: When I was a lad/Star Trek parody X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <970530161740_-195762744@emout19.mail.aol.com> *** EOOH *** 7 23:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 23:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Dorothy Laoang To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: When I was a lad/Star Trek parody X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <970530161740_-195762744@emout19.mail.aol.com> A friend saw this on the alt.startrek.creative newsgroup and sent it to me. Thought some of you might find it amusing. Dorothy Laoang -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- WHEN I WAS A LAD with apologies to W.S. Gilbert When I was a lad we stamped on grapes, We jumped and gibbered like crazy apes. We picked them carefully and threw them in And jumped to burst them from out their skin. I jumped and gibbered so, without capsize That now I am the captain of the Enterprise. At squashing grapes I made such a splash That daddy let me add up all the family's cash. I added it so freely and conservatively That some of it was overlooked and came to me. I augmented my allowance in such a wise That now I am the Captain of the Enterprise! My father sent me to private school Where I studied hard and never played the fool. When asked a question I learned with ease To say, "Computer, the answer please!" My ignorance thus I would disguise, And now I am the Captain of the Enterprise In class I learned the words and stuff Which made me sound a science buff. I hated all the maths and loved the Arts. I went in plays in all the good parts. I chewed the scenery and rolled my eyes, And now I am the Captain of the Enterprise! In Shakespeare's plays I rolled my vowels, And learned to practice frowns and scowls. As Cassius I learned the useful knack Of stabbing my leader in the back. For all these accomplishments I won the prize And now I am the Captain of the Enterprise. I went to the Academy, and lost my heart. But they made me a new one, before I fell apart. I learned to tell everyone what to do, And say, "Make it so!" to any of the crew. That is the reason, or so I surmise, That I am the Captain of the Enterprise. -Edward McArdle.  1,, Summary-line: 5-Jun Bruce I. Miller #Sullivan Complete Works? -Reply Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22406; Thu, 5 Jun 97 16:59:20 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23871; Thu, 5 Jun 97 16:59:19 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA05540; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan Complete Works? -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan Complete Works? -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 >Does anyone know if a complete works scholarly collection has been done (or is being planned) for Sullivan? For the benefit of relative newcomers to SavoyNet: The first critical edition of the Gilbert & Sullivan operas is in progress, and is being published by Broude Brothers Limited of New York and Williamstown, MA. It has been underway officially since 1971; Trial By Jury was published in 1994, and the others are in various stages of completion. The principal volumes each will contain a full orchestral score and separately annotated libretto of a particular opera; and recently it was decided to publish piano-vocal scores and instrumental performance materials for each opera as well (those for Trial by Jury are in preparation). The principal volumes are not cheap, but they contain wealth of information, along with informed opinions as to what the final text ought to be. In instances where there are various versions (for example, for Trial By Jury there are the original version of 1875 and the revival of 1884) it is possible to reconstruct either one; the main text gives the state of the opera for 1884, but with the criitcal apparatus it is possible to reconstruct the original version of 1875 as well. It is possible to place with them a standing order, so that you can receive each volume as it is published at a pre-publication price. They also will be glad to send you a brochure. (You can go into the SavoyNet archives to get more detailed information, as this project has been the subject of much discussion in the past). Most of the better music libraries already have the Trial volume in their collections, and you may be able to inspect a copy on Interlibrary loan if you can't find it locally. Broude Brothers' address and telephone numbers are: Broude Brothers Limited 141 White Oaks Road Williamstown, MA 01267 U.S.A. Toll Free Telephone #: 1-800-225-3197 Regular telephone #: (413)-458-8131 W. S. GILBERT & ARTHUR SULLIVAN: THE OPERAS; 1: TRIAL BY JURY, Edited by Steven Ledbetter. Broude Brothers Limited, New York & Williamstown, 1994. ISBN 0-8450-3001-9 Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu  1,, Summary-line: 6-Jun Dr. Clive Woods #Skeletonic Keys (or off The *comfort* of keys - now way Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA19882; Fri, 6 Jun 97 06:50:13 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29048; Fri, 6 Jun 97 06:49:18 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA10617; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <9EDB7F7877@ramsden.shef.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Dr. Clive Woods" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Skeletonic Keys (or off The *comfort* of keys - now way X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Dr. Clive Woods" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Skeletonic Keys (or off The *comfort* of keys - now way X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum At 9:35 on 5 Jun 97, Theodore C Rice wrote: > how do you get the frequency of D---or for that matter, > C ? Are they derived from a standard ( say, A=440 ) ? > By dividing the C - A interval by 6 ? Or are they defined otherwise ? Start from A=440Hz. [Hz = hertz = cycles (vibrations) per second]. Then, in equal temperament only, fA# = fBb = fA X 2^(1/12). The number 2^(1/12) is a clumsy way of writing in text form the twelfth root of 2. On a scientific calculator, enter 2 and raise it to the power (here you need to use a button marked with y and a small x to the top right of y, or something similar) of 1/12. The result is a decimal number that when multiplied by itself 12 times gives you the answer 2. Approximately it is 1.059..., so you can say that a semitone is approximately a 6% increase in frequency. Now, to get C, you just multiply the frequency of A# by 2^(1/12) twice, because in equal temperament all the semitones are supposed to have equal frequency ratios. To get D, multiply another two times. Because there are twelve semitones in an octave, if you multiply the frequency of A by 2^(1/12) a total of TWELVE times, you get the frequency of A an octave higher. Surprise, surprise - I said earlier that if you multiply 2^(1/12) by itself twelve times, you get 2, so of course the frequency of A an octave higher is exactly twice 440Hz. All of the above is the _ideal_ case, and takes no account of tuning irregularities found in actual pianos for various reasons. Clive Woods c.woods@sheffield.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ From: Dr. R.C. Woods, Department of Electronic and Electrical Engineering, University of Sheffield, Mappin Street, Sheffield, S1 3JD, United Kingdom. Telephone: +44 (114) 22 25144; Fax: +44 (114) 2726 391. Visit our Web index page at URL http://www.shef.ac.uk/  1,, Summary-line: 8-Jun Arthur Robinson #Re: O Mount Vesuvius ... ! Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15142; Sun, 8 Jun 97 23:30:15 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13909; Sun, 8 Jun 97 23:29:20 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA24451; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: O Mount Vesuvius ... ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: *** EOOH *** Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: O Mount Vesuvius ... ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Herewith by request, the speakers and sources (I don't have the libretti with me, so I can't guarantee the speakers): > "All our love is all for one" Women's chorus, PATIENCE > "Two minutes will decide who wins the prize" Bunthorne, PATIENCE > "It occurs three times a day." Bunthorne, PATIENCE > "When but a tiny babe of four" Patience, PATIENCE > "I am a little boy of five" Frederic, PIRATES > "Six of our editors have resigned in succession" Scaphio (or Phantis?), UTOPIA > "Some seven men form an association" Mr. Goldbury, UTOPIA > "It's like eight hours at the seaside!" Old Adam (a.k.a. Gideon Crawle), RUDDIGORE > "We have it in four-and-a-half and nine gallon casks." J.W. Wells, SORCERER > "I died ten years ago." Sir Roderic, RUDDIGORE > "You don't feel surprised when he tells you he's only eleven"\ Lord Chancellor, IOLANTHE > "'Tis twelve, I think" > Aline, Alexis and J.W. Wells, SORCERER > "Long years ago--fourteen, maybe" Patience, PATIENCE > "Have fifteen years so greatly changed me?" Grosvenor, PATIENCE > "Though but sixteen years she carry, she must marry" Fairfax, Sgt. Meryll, Dame Carruthers, Kate, YEOMEN > "Hail the bride of 17 summers" Chorus, RUDDIGORE > "Schoolgirls we, 18 and under" Women's (surprise!) chorus, MIKADO > "Some must be extremely green, for half of them are not 19" Prince of Monte Carlo, GRAND DUKE (cut from some editions) > "Twenty love-sick maidens we" Chorus of Twenty Love-sick Maidens, PATIENCE > "Though she's 21, it's true, I am barely 22" Hiliarion, PRINCESS IDA > "Vice gets the better of it the other 23 hours" Thespis, THESPIS > "Who says 24 hours make a day?" Nanki-Poo, MIKADO > "25 years--it's a long time!" > Celia (or Fleta or Leila--I can't keep them straight), IOLANTHE > "Although for such a beastly month as February, 28 days as a rule are > plenty, one year in every four his days shall be reckoned as nine-and-twenty" Pirate King, PIRATES > "F claims all hoydens as her rights (she's played them 30 seasons)" > Ernest, GRAND DUKE > "But she proved to be a Frigate--and she up with her ports, and fires > with a thirty-two!" > Richard Dauntless, RUDDIGORE > "The 35th Dragoon Guards have halted in this village" Patience, PATIENCE > "A maiden coy whom 'numbers' woo, whom six-and-thirty suitors sue" > Prince of Monte Carlo, GRAND DUKE (see note above) > "She may very well pass for 43 in the dusk with a light behind her" > Learned Judge, TRIAL BY JURY > "I began at last to think that man was born bent at an angle of 45 degrees" Duke, PATIENCE > "My love unabating has been accumulating forty-seven year" > Ruth, PIRATES > "True; from 17 to 49 are considered years of indiscretion." Nanki-Poo (a.k.a. The Villain of the Piece), MIKADO > "A sober widow, laden with the weight of 50 years" Aline (?), SORCERER > "Though but 55, I am an old campaigner in the battle-fields of love" Phantis, UTOPIA > "The Joint Stock Company Act of 62" [yes, I know it should be 1862] King Paramount and Chorus, UTOPIA > "When I love, it wil be with the accumulated fervour of 66 years!" Scaphio, UTOPIA again > "He's ugly, and absurdly dressed, and 67 nearly" Constance, SORCERER > "Number 70, Simmery Axe" J.W. Wells, SORCERER > "This wine doesn't cost us a penny, though it's Pommery 74" Baroness, GRAND DUKE > "Won't you wait until you're eighty in the shade?" Ko-Ko, MIKADO > "It is not every nobleman who is 95 quarters in arrears" Duke of Plaza-Toro, GONDOLIERS > "A hundred girls? A hundred ecstasies!" Cyril (or Florian?), PRINCESS IDA > "And his pulse is a hundred and twenty" Captain Fitzbattleaxe, UTOPIA > "Hipparchus 'twas--B.C. 163!" Cyril (or one of those others in drag), IDA > "The Lord Chamberlain...has declined to license any play that is not in > blank verse and 300 years old--as in England." Scaphio (or Phantis), UTOPIA > "He'd rather pass the day with one of you, than with 500 of his fellow men!" Gama, IDA > "The misfortune to be a duke, with a thousand a day" Duke, PATIENCE > "In 1940 I of age will be" Frederic, PIRATES > "In one sitting, I won no less than 5000 francs" Prince of Monte Carlo, GRAND DUKE (he uses a lot of numbers) > "She is 7037th in direct descent from Helen of Troy."\ Sir Marmaduke, SORCERER > "The Merrie Jests of Hugh Ambrose, No. 7863" Jack Point, YEOMEN "gets paid ten thousand a year for being good" Ibid. > "With fifty thousand pounds a year, we could indulge in table beer" Baroness, GRAND DUKE > "It's one to a million that any civilian my figure and form will surpass" Colonel, PATIENCE > "The figure's immaterial--it may vary from 18 millionn down to eighteenpence" Mr. Goldbury, UTOPIA Arthur  1,, Summary-line: 12-Jun Mendes, Rica #Marketing (Was OOTW-PATIENCE) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26344; Thu, 12 Jun 97 10:13:33 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24440; Thu, 12 Jun 97 10:12:35 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA24708; Thu, 12 Jun 199 7 10:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mendes, Rica" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Marketing (Was OOTW-PATIENCE) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 *** EOOH *** 7 10:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mendes, Rica" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Marketing (Was OOTW-PATIENCE) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 >The people will either come or they won't. There's no real way to attract >people to see an updated Patience because you only have fliers or at most a >full color poster to advertise. I've never seen an advertisement for >Patience that claimed "updated with all obscure references expunged!" That is a rather close-minded way of looking at marketing. In my experience, in order to get an audience, you have to do a lot more advertising than just posters and fliers. Sure - well placed printed material will alert people, but it will not draw them in. Nowadays you need creative ways of drawing crowds - it's getting harder and harder to get people out of their barco-loungers. Newspaper articles help a bit more, but even then, you may not get the crowds to come in. A few years ago, when my local theater company was at a peak, we did a number of things to really draw the crowds in - and they worked (we are talking about doing them again this year). Though our theater company (for the past 10 years) has never had music in its shows, let alone a G&S opera, there is no reason why what they do can't apply to G&S. A couple of weeks or so before every show, there was a related party open to the public at the theater space that had a related theme - for example, when we did "Mary of Scotland", we had an Elizabethan Feast where all the actors (m'self included) were in full costume and full character and we hosted the evening, entertaining guests etc. In addition, as I was in the high school Chamber Choir, we were able to get the Chamber Choir to come and serenade us with madrigals all evening long (we also had full renn. costumes in Chamber Choir). Though the party was small (only 25-30 people in addition to the 32 member cast and their families) the word of mouth was enourmous. We did "Bell, Book and Candle" not long after that, so the company hosted a Halloween Ball (though, as I recall, it was the Spring Show). Again, though the numbers were larger, the word of mouth paid off. In addition to these evenings, for many shows, we also have people go to the shopping centers in related costumes (this last production, "A Shot in the Dark" had people in 60's Parisian garb & berets) handing out leaflets about the production and shmoozing with the consumers. The point is that, especially with shows with less mass appeal (I can assume that even the most popular G&S company is interested in expanding its audiences) need a bit more attention, and, for the company, it creates wonderful comaradarie. On a side note, perhaps the "Jerry Maguire" poster may help promo Patience this year - after all, "Jerry" brought back the show "Arli$" from the cable graveyard... (; Rica Mendes @}-,--'--- AIG Financial Products - Operations ---'--,-{@ Arcadian Ensemble, The Doors 3 Project, Gilbert & Sullivan Society of New York, IHBM Guild, Mah Pi Tones, Oberlin Gilbert & Sullivan Players, Poliniak Trial by Jury, Pound Ridge Theater Co (VP/Prod.), Savoy Fare, Sunday Group  1,, Summary-line: 12-Jun rmacphai@bridgewater.edu #Sullivan Orchestrations/R. Clyde Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04840; Thu, 12 Jun 97 10:54:07 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20461; Thu, 12 Jun 97 10:54:06 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA25346; Thu, 12 Jun 199 7 10:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan Orchestrations/R. Clyde X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** 7 10:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sullivan Orchestrations/R. Clyde X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I recently received a letter from Roger Harris, who under the imprint R. Clyce publishes the vocal score to _The Zoo_ and makes available orchestrations for that and other Sullivan operas. Inquiries can be addressed to Mr. Roger Harris R. Clyde 6 Whitelands Avenue Chorelywood Rickmansworth Herts WD3 5RD Telephone: (01923) 283600 Mr. Harris has a couple pages of information concerning his publications, but here's an overview: _THE ZOO_ (Vocal Score; new edition) Paper: $15.00 Cloth: $50.00 (postage and packing extra) COMIC OPERAS BY SULLIVAN [Orchestrations] Available on Hire: _THE CONTRABANDISTA; OR THE LAW OF THE LANDRONES_ Two acts. Libretto by F. C. burnand. _THE CHIEFTAIN_ (Revised and enlarged version of _The Contrabandista_.) Two acts. Libretto by F. C. Burnand. (Also available with new book and lyrics by David Eden.) _HADDON HALL_ Three acts. Libretto by Sydney Grundy. _THE ZOO_ One act. Libretto by "Bolton Rowe" (B. C. Stephenson). Vocal scores and orchestral parts for all the above available for hire from: R. CLYDE 6 Whitelands Avenue Chorleywood, Rickmansworth, Herts WD3 5RD, England. Telephone: Chorelywood (01923) 283600 If you inquire, please state that you read all about it on SavoyNet. Thanks. Cordially, Rafe -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Ralph MacPhail, Jr. RMacPhai@Bridgewater.edu (540) 828-5342 Box 114 Bridgewater College FAX: 828-5479 Bridgewater VA 22812-1599 USA HOME: 828-6656 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  1,, Summary-line: 19-Jun David Sandham #New Vic's Pirates Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20249; Thu, 19 Jun 97 16:51:01 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA12710; Thu, 19 Jun 97 16:51:00 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA24607; Thu, 19 Jun 199 7 16:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <01BC7CF0.D32A6EE0@p24-goshawk-gui.tch.virgin.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Sandham To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Vic's Pirates X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *** EOOH *** 7 16:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: David Sandham To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Vic's Pirates X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last night we went to the first night, at the New Vic Theatre (Stoke on Trent - England), of Pirates of Penzance. As with the production of Pinafore which finished last week, the scene had been set in modern times. Unlike Pinafore the director had not changed the dialogue too much and the story was basically as we all know and love! However the pirates were dressed in true "B lues Brothers" style complete with the shades. The production started in very gloomy surroundings with a "prisoner" being dragged out onto the beach. This was Frederick and it looked as if he was going to be "done in" but it was all a joke on him as it was his birthday - the party followed. Ruth had an admirable "Jordie" accent which contrasted well with the "gangster like" American accents used by the pirates. (th is latter point was the only fault which I found with the production - it would have been better to have had west country accen ts). Frederick was a bit of a "sloane" very posh - well he would have been if he had had a nanny! The arrival of General Stanley's Daughters (there were only 4 including Mabel) was excellent - they had found the hidden beach by:- One on a mountain bike which she rode around the aisle (remember it is a theatre in the round) until she came down the steps to the stage (beach) - in modern cycling gear Another dropped down a rope from the roof in full climbing harness (off the top o the cliff?) The third was a tennis player ???? Mabel was all tweed skirt and wooly jumpers - collecting specimens - However she fell for Frederick and her "yes 'tis Mabel" w as brilliantly carried out as she tottered over the rocks. When the Major General arrived he had been Scuba diving and at one point in his song he became so out of breath that he rushed for a gulp of oxygen from his tanks! The police, as we would expect, went well over the top! Including one with a very high voice! Mabel was communicating to them over portable radios. The Policemans Lot was very topical. Great play was made about a small section of the stage which had water painted on it - excellent shaking of feet when anyone tr od in it. The usual fight took place until the priates yielded in"William Shakespeares name" but they were let off because they were "al l Thespians who have gone wrong" Instead of the usual transformation the pirate became over the top actors spouting lines from the bard . Again a cast of only 12 seemed to create an illusion of many more with their quick changes. The music, from David Windle, created the illusion of an orchestra - he is superb. If you can get to this production I would recommend it - there was so much happening that we will go again to catch some of the things we missed first time. As Buxton approaches we hope to continue our feast of G&S - the theatre at Buxton is superb and it enhances the traditional pro ductions - the modern theatre in the round at The New Vic did exactly the same for this modern version. See you at Buxton David  1,, Summary-line: 23-Jun Arthur Robinson #Re: G&S Christmas Carol ?? Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25698; Mon, 23 Jun 97 21:03:32 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA22554; Mon, 23 Jun 97 21:02:20 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA17033; Mon, 23 Jun 199 7 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: G&S Christmas Carol ?? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: *** EOOH *** 7 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: G&S Christmas Carol ?? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: I don't know anything first-hand about the G&S Christmas Carols,, but I searched on the Lexis-Nexis database. I found nothing about the Toye version (it's from pre-computer days), but I found a little about the Gayden Wren version; he apparently hadn't heard of an earlier version. There's a short article on it from _Newsday_ for Friday, November 25, 1994, bu Bill Kaufman. Here it is (I hope I'm not breaking copyright laws): It's not quite "Ebenezer Scrooge Meets Nanki-Poo" or "Tiny Tim Melts Yum-Yum's Heart," but reasonably close: "A Gilbert and Sullivan Christmas Carol," which blends some well-loved music and an equally cherished tale in an offbeat production that will have its world premiere as part of this holiday season's outpouring. The show, an adaptation of the classic Charles Dickens story featuring songs from 10 Gilbert & Sullivan operas with brand-new lyrics by Gayden Wren, debuts Dec. 17 at the Unitarian Church in Garden City. Wren, director of the Gilbert & Sullivan Light Opera Company of Long Island, said, "It was a logical enough idea. Actually, we were surprised that no one has apparently ever done it before." Wren, 33, a former magazine editor and lifelong Gilbert & Sullivan buff who lives in Garden City, said that the idea seemed fitting because Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" has to be "the most popular Christmas story of the last 1,000 years--and what music could be more suited to a Victorian storyteller like Dickens than Gilbert & Sullivan?" Raymond J. Osnato, music director of the troupe and accompanist for the fully costumed production, said the music is exactly as in the original operas. "You could hardly improve on the music," said Osnato, 37, a Massapequa resident and recording firm executive. He added, "I think people will be surprised by some of what we've done, but I don't think anyone will be offended. After all, who loves Gilbert & Sullivan more than we do?" Songs from such favorites as "The Mikado," "HMS Pinafore," and "Pirates of Penzance" are represented. Wren said that he's already had inquiries from other Gilbert and Sullivan companies about the copyrighted production. Osnato said the cast had some adjusting to do, especially veteran members who've been performing songs with familiar words for decades. "You've spent 20 years singing `Titwillow, titwillow, titwillow,' and it's hard to teach yourself, `Bah humbug, bah hymbug, bah humbug,'" he said with a laugh. The church is at Stewart Avenue and Nassau Boulevard. Tickets for the 8 p.m. performance are $10. For reservations, call (516) 795-7745. [end of article] I just searched on the Web under "gayden wren" and found a web site for renting condensed orchestral scores for the 13 G&S operas (what, no Thespis?) and the G&S Christmas Carol; the URL is http://www.island.net/~cvvm/yelland.opus1.htm. I'll try another database to find reviews, but I doubt I'll find any that weren't on Lexis-nexis. I hope this helps. Arthur On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Nathan Hull wrote: > An S.O.S. call for info: > > I have been asked by a professional company to find out about the history > of the various versions of "A Christmas Carol" adapted for stage > performance with G&S songs. > > At present, I am aware of two such efforts: > 1) one done (perhaps) in the 1960's by John Toye, and > 2) the other a more recent adaptation by Gayden Wren. > > First, does anyone have any information on either one of these "Gilbert and > Sullivan Christmas Carols" ?? In particular, can you provide any idea on > the performance histories of these pieces? > Are there any other G&S adaptations of Xmas Carol?? > > Let me know ASAP, as there is a meeting on this topic scheduled in a couple > of days! > > Thanks, > > Nathan Hull > hull@cs.nyu.edu > > >  1,, Summary-line: 24-Jun Jim Farron #G&S Web Operas Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA09551; Tue, 24 Jun 97 20:23:08 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA02731; Tue, 24 Jun 97 20:22:04 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA23753; Tue, 24 Jun 199 7 20:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970624201011.0068c210@mail.vais.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Jim Farron To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S Web Operas X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) *** EOOH *** 7 20:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Jim Farron To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: G&S Web Operas X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) The "Web Operas" have been the most popular feature of the Gilbert and Sullivan Archive for over a year now. The Web Operas include all of the lyrics and dialogue as web pages, and all of the music as midi files -- perfect for your own sing-along. We have full Web Operas of both Pirates of Penzance and The Zoo. And two more about to be launched -- The Mikado and The Contrabandista. You can preview these new Web Operas now by following the links from the new Opera Index. The Mikado Web Opera is complete, but I'm going to be adding some more illustrations to it, and the Contrabandista Web Opera is complete except that we don't have midi files for the last two songs yet. I received the following note this evening. It is typical of the comments that we receive on the Web Operas, and it also illustrates one of the important uses to which these operas can be put. -- Jim Farron ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Imadiva123@aol.com To: jmfarron@vais.net Subject: "Pirates" Web Opera I enjoyed the web opera of The Pirates of Penzance tremendously! I am currently playing Ruth in a local production of Pirates. I had just been cast, and I was still unfamiliar with the music. I went on the internet just to research the show, and instead I found your web opera! I've been singing along all night becoming familar with the score. I don't even need to follow along in my own score, because it is all on the computer screen. My musical director is going to be very impressed with me tomorrow. This is a wonderful idea, and I hope to see more Web Operas in the future. Sing-cerly, Andrea Hough ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Farron, Springfield, VA Gilbert and Sullivan Archive == http://diamond.idbsu.edu/GaS/GaS.html U. S. Office of Personnel Management == http://www.opm.gov Washington Area Butterfly Club = http://www.vais.net/butterfly -----------------------------------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 25-Jun Neil Midkiff #From the Stanford Savoyards cabaret at the Berkeley G&S Festival... Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA12212; Wed, 25 Jun 97 05:43:00 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA00820; Wed, 25 Jun 97 05:42:59 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id FAA26824; Wed, 25 Jun 199 7 05:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706250941.CAA16839@netcom3.netcom.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: midkiff@netcom.com (Neil Midkiff) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: From the Stanford Savoyards cabaret at the Berkeley G&S Festival... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 05:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: midkiff@netcom.com (Neil Midkiff) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: From the Stanford Savoyards cabaret at the Berkeley G&S Festival... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Thanks to all for the kind words about the Stanford Savoyards cabaret after Thursday evening's trio of one-acts at the Berkeley branch of the International Gilbert and Sullivan Festival. In response to a few inquiries, herewith is the 'cheat sheet' for one part of the presentation, the Pirates lyrics set to other music than Sullivan's. Without a good text-based system for writing melodies, I've just tried to indicate the tunes and keys we used, along with a few *down*beats marked with asterisks, two syllables on one note shown with hyphens, and so forth. If you find it ambiguous or difficult to imagine the setting, let me know and I'll try to clear it up. I wish I could give full credit to everyone who helped put this together (originally for a cast party a couple of years ago). I think the original idea is due to Marc Kenig, with assistance from Connie Kleinjans, Ruth Ferziger, Harriett Ferziger, myself, and others I'm surely forgetting. This version is much shorter than the cast party version; you should see the ones that got away! I wrote the mock-academic introduction especially for the Festival cabaret. -Neil Midkiff ===================================== We now take a brief break in the entertainment portion of our program to focus on a more scholarly subject. As you know, one of the purposes of the Festival is to accelerate the dissemination of the results of academic research relating to Gilbert and Sullivan. And being located here in the San Francisco Bay Area, home of much of the world's computer industry as well as a major cultural and performing-arts center, the Stanford Savoyards take very seriously our responsibility to bring these interests together, applying our hardware and software skills to the analysis of the works of the librettist and composer we celebrate in this Festival. Whenever musical theatre is discussed, the topic of "Which came first, the words or music?" is an important subject of analysis. Research has proved that Gilbert's self-deprecating anecdotes about his musical knowledge give a wrong idea of his skills. Though he claimed "I only know two tunes: one is 'God Save the Queen' and the other isn't", Gilbert stayed up until 3 a.m. the night before the New York premiere of Pirates, working alongside Sullivan and Alfred Cellier, helping to copy out the orchestra parts for the overture--hardly a task for a musical illiterate. It is known that Gilbert occasionally gave useful suggestions to Sullivan as to the musical setting of his lyrics. In this light, we embarked at Stanford on a major project of computer-assisted rhythmic and metrical analysis of Gilbert's lyrics to ascertain the extent to which Gilbert employed existing tunes as a model for his lyric writing. The details of the analytical methods we used and the data processing procedures employed will be addressed in another paper at a different forum. We present here our reconstruction of Gilbert's original models for the melodic setting of some of his lyrics for The Pirates of Penzance. I think that, after hearing these, you'll agree with us that the evidence is both academically and artistically compelling. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pour, Oh Pour, to the tune of Beethoven's 9th Symphony/Ode to Joy (Key of D)(start F#) Pour, O pour the pirate sherry; Fill, O fill the pirate glass; And, to make us more than merry Let the pirate bumper pass. For today our pirate 'prentice Rises from indentures freed; Strong his arm, and keen his scent is He's a pirate now indeed! Climbing over Rocky Mountain to the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (Bb, start low Bb) [DROPPING THE LAST SYLLABLE OF THE LAST WORD OF EACH LINE] Climbing over rocky mount, Skipping rivulet and fount, (repeat tune of first line:) Passing where the willows quiv, By the ever rolling riv Threading long and leafy maze Dotted with unnumbered dais' Scaling rough and rugged pass, Climb the hardy little lass. "Poor Wandering One" to the tune of New, York, New York (Eb) Poor wandering one! [Start spreading...] Though-thou-hast surely strayed, [I'm leaving...] Take heart of grace, [I want...] Thy steps retrace, [ a part...] Poor wand'ring one! [New York...] If such poor *love* as mine [...*make*...] Can help thee *find* true peace [...*an*ywhere] of mind, why, *take* it, it is thine! Hail Poetry to the tune of Yankee Doodle (Eb, start low Bb pickup on Hail, Thou, and Hail; Eb pickup on You-may) Hail, Poetry, thou heav'n-born maid! Thou gildest e'en the pirate's trade. Hail, flowing fount of sentiment! All hail, divine emollient! You-may go, for you're at liberty, our pirate rules protect you, And honorary members of our band we do elect you! When the Foeman - to the tune of Do-Re-Mi (Do, a deer) (C) *When* the foeman bares his steel, *We* uncomfortable feel, *And* we find the wisest thing, *Is* to slap our chests and sing, *For* when threatened with emeutes, *And* your heart is in your boots, *There* is nothing brings it round Like the trumpet's martial sound-- Tarantara! Come, friends, who plough the sea, to the tune of The Anvil Chorus (C) Come, friends, who plough the sea, Truce to navigation, Let's vary piracee With some burglaration! "Tormented by the anguish dread" to the tune of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen (E minor) Tormented with the anguish dread Of falsehood unatoned, I lay upon my sleepless bed, And tossed and turned and groaned. The man who finds his conscience ache No peace at all enjoys; And as *I* lay in bed awake, I thought I heard a noise, I thought I heard a noise.  1,, Summary-line: 26-Jun Michael Walters #Re: OOTW PIRATES -- Climbing Over Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18614; Thu, 26 Jun 97 05:43:08 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA16700; Thu, 26 Jun 97 05:43:07 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id FAA06320; Thu, 26 Jun 199 7 05:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970626103342.271f8cf4@mailserver.nhm.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Walters To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: OOTW PIRATES -- Climbing Over X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** 7 05:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Michael Walters To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: OOTW PIRATES -- Climbing Over X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) At 20:47 23/06/97 -0400, you wrote: >GILBERT'S LETTER RECONSIDERED I looked at Townley Searle's book again last night, something I have not actually done for a very long time. (For he record I paid 10 pounds for my copy on 18 September 1991 at a sale of surplus books from the library of the Gilbert and Sullivan Society at one of their London meetings. My copy is a 1931 printing, I didn't know it had been reprinted as Marc says. My copy is entitled "Sir William Schwenck Gilbert: A Topsy-Turvy Adventure", which is slightly different from that previously quoted). I am more uneasy than ever about the Gilbert letter of 1902. Firstly, the stuff on page 1, part of which was quoted by Peter Withey, seems bosh, and must surely have been written tongue-in-cheek. Are we really supposed to believe that on 7 December 1871, Gilbert & Sullivan sought copyright protection for THESPIS in the USA & Canada? And if they had, could a citizen living in Boston have been legally able to hold copyright for Canada as well as the USA? Then all the information about the "pirate" Henry Morgan, is surely far too good to be true, and must be a joke. Apart from the coincidence of the names, how could he have known about their book before it was published? No, no, I think all that is a big joke. Turning to the letter itself, there are several odd things here. Who was Percy de Strzelecki? Its a very odd name. Percy is English, de is French, and the rest sounds Polish. Do Polish surnames ever have French prefixes? Could it be an anagram? I'm no good at anagrams, but there are plenty of others on the net who are. Anyone like to have a go? Next question. Who was R.E.Swartwout? It, too, sounds an unlikely name. Swartout, yes, but Swartwout? Normally, if an author gets an introduction written for his book, he gets somebody famous. But has anyone ever heard of Swartwout in any other context? The letter was allegedly published because Mr. de Strzelecki gave his permission. Rubbish! He had no power to give permission. The only person who could was the copyright holder of Gilbert's unpublished manuscripts, presumably Lady Gilbert. Searle must have known that, and have been familiar with the copyright laws. There is no suggestion that the copyright holder's permission was sought, and therefore if the letter is genuine Searle would have been guilty of a serious infringement of copyright. Lastly. Gilbert's letter was supposedly in reply to a copy of a letter which Mr. de Strzelecki had published in a paper called "The Clarion". It ought to be possible to prove whether this letter was in fact published. Was there ever a national paper called "The Clarion"? I have examined over 70 national newspapers in my researches into the first night press reports of the G&S operas, and I have never heard of it. This, of course, does not prove anything, it could have commenced publication after the period I was researching. And it might have been a local paper rather han a national one, but this seems unlikely, since the last paragraph of Gilbert's letter seems to imply that he had seen the letter in the newspaper itself, and that it was a paper he read. This then, raises another question. Did Gilbert ever write a reply that was published in the paper. It would indeed be very surprising if he did not, it would be the sort of thing he was usually quick to do. And if he did, it is very surprising that nobody noticed these published letters until Searle wrote his book. POSTSCRIPT: Another off thing I noticed about the book. On page 67, Searle gives a list of plays which he says have been, at different times, wrongly attributed to Gilbert: The Vivandiere of Phalsbourg Doctor Dulcamara (i.e. not Dulcamara) London Bridge, 100 Years Ago; or, The Old Mint Our Future King Marion de Lorme Merry Vivandiere Cupid in the Country Domestic Supremacy His First Brief Has anybody ever heard of any of these plays, and where and when they had been attributed to Gilbert. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael P. Walters Bird Group, The Natural History Museum, at Walter Rothschild Zoological Museum, Tring, Herts., HP23 6AP, UK Tel: 0144282-4181 -------------------------------------------------------------------------  1,, Summary-line: 30-Jun Sternenberg, Philip #Laetitia's Lyrics Re-Created Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA21643; Mon, 30 Jun 97 14:53:13 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA24171; Mon, 30 Jun 97 14:52:04 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA23025; Mon, 30 Jun 199 7 14:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <33B828F2@ms-mail-gate> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip (HAC)" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Laetitia's Lyrics Re-Created X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** 7 14:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip (HAC)" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Laetitia's Lyrics Re-Created X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 >A number of people have written words for this song over the years. It would >be very useful and interesting to collect these together sometime. >Unfortunately, I have found that authors seem to be extremely reticent about >releasing their sets of words. The best set I can recall hearing were by a >man called Andrew Gow for a society on Merseyside. > >Michael P. Walters I'm all for seeing different versions of lyrics for ZOO No. 4 posted here. As I'm not reticent, I'll start things going with mine, but I'd like to share the thought process behind them as well. It relates to the difficulties of fitting words to an existing tune and the way I found to get around them. First of all, I wrote my lyrics to fit the melody in the 1975 Cramer score, which was current at the time (1981). The later Clyde score has a revised melody into which my lyrics don't fit, but much of my work would need to be so totally rethought to go with the Clyde version that I prefer to leave well enough alone. My objective was to write lyrics that not only fit the character and the situation, but could conceivably have been written BEFORE the music was composed. I wanted something that looked Gilbertian in libretto form (yes, I know ZOO was by Stephenson, not Gilbert, but why not emulate the better author?) and with which Sullivan might do more than just write one note per syllable. I tried to find a logical metrical pattern in a melody that didn't readily suggest one. I took into account places where Sullivan might have repeated lyrics (e. g., the 2nd ending, which I totally ignored in working out the meter) and one place where he simply might have thrown in an "Ah!" on his own. This was the result for each verse, with a letter at the end of each line to indicate the rhyme scheme: duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM (A) duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM (A) duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM (A) duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh (B) DUM-duh-DUM-duh-duh-DUM (C) DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM (C) duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh (B) duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM (D) duh-DUM-duh-DUM-duh-DUM (D) I'd have preferred something iambic and a little more regular for Lines 5 and 6, but I couldn't work that out. I resigned myself to realizing that Gilbert was occasionally irregular (insert laxative joke), and I let it pass (insert second laxative joke). At this point I knew which syllables would wind up being repeated, but for now that was immaterial. Two things pleased me in particular: 1) I knew that the first melodic line would actually end on the second syllable of the second lyric line, but that was fine with me. In fact, it would allow the melody to be independent of the rhyme scheme at that point, a strategy Sullivan often used. 2) The two B lines are very different rhythmically, but I was able to find identical scansion for them. Next came writing real lyrics, which I began by working out a concept. Since Laetitia had already been cast, our Directors asked me to ask her what vowel would be most comfortable for her when singing the high Bb in the 2nd ending. She said it was "ah" (gee, what a surprise). I remembered Laetitia's repeated singing of "Father" in No. 12 and decided "Father" should be the word to make that Bb an "ah." From there I decided on making her song reflect the irony of the conflict of love for father with love for suitor, and you'll soon see the results. The next step was to write the lyrics WHILE TRYING TO FORGET THE MELODY COMPLETELY. Admittedly I couldn't make the melody go entirely away, but I concentrated as much as possible on simply trying to fill in the above pattern. Once I had everything filled in, I then plugged it all into the melody. It was mostly satisfactory, but I then changed a word here and another word there to make it all sound better. Considering that G&S lyrics have often changed from original libretto form to final form, I don't feel I was cheating here. Anyhow, FWIW, here's the final product: Verse 1: A woman's tender heart Belongs to man from start; 'Twould break had she to part From father dear in childhood's leisure. And, so rightly, I know, Love will surely grow. Then young man share's heart's priceless treasure. Young man and father must Compete for heart, I trust. Verse 2: A woman's heart has room For father and for groom. But father might assume Her heart belongs to husband only, And, so wrongly, I dread, Leave her love for dead. Now heart and father both are lonely. 'Twixt heart and father dear, She can't please both, I fear. This is the pure libretto form (schmaltz acknowledged and intentional) as Sullivan would theoretically have first seen it. To fit this into the melody, do the following: 1) Get a Cramer ZOO score, because I don't want to waste space on a clumsy attempt to show you what melody I was using. 2) Add "Ah!" before the penultimate line of each verse, where it will correspond to a Bb dotted half note. 3) Repeat the last two words of each verse. 4) Add "She can't please both, heart and father dear!" to the end of Verse 2 (to account for the 2nd ending). 5) Sing one syllable per note. >From here on you're welcome to your own opinions, and I can't give a much better reason why I wrote what I did than you might guess if you were analyzing my work as you would a long-dead lyricist's. My greatest satisfaction in the content of the lyrics comes from the Gilbertian (I feel) self-contradictory nature of the two verses, as with "Is life a boon?" The last words I wrote were "And, so wrongly," which, when compared to the corresponding Verse 1 lyrics, make the contradiction that much more pointed. One step remained to complete the simulation of a song whose lyrics were written before its music. SavoyNetter Florrie Marks orchestrated the entire ZOO based on the vocal score and DCOC recording, trying (and succeeding) to get as close as possible to Sullivan. For this number alone she had nothing more than the vocal line and piano accompaniment to guide her, so her orchestration was original beyond that. She asked that I finish the lyrics before she even started on this number, and I obliged. Conversely, this meant I rightly didn't have the mood of the orchestration to affect my contribution, and I didn't even hear the piano accompaniment beforehand (nor am I sufficiently trained to get much out of studying the accompaniment in print), so the lyrics couldn't have been influenced by more than the vocal line (to the degree already described) and the rest of THE ZOO. (For the record, Florrie also arranged a three-section overture with Laetitia's song in the middle. It begins with "I loved her fondly" and ends with "You've had four tarts." She wasn't so presumptuous as to write any original themes, but the order of moods of the three sections corresponds very well to the typical G&S overture.) Anyone who wishes to use my lyrics in performance (anyone -- please?) is welcome to do so free of charge. I ask only that I somehow be acknowledged as the author. Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@msmail.awii.com  1,, Summary-line: 3-Jul Dr. Clive Woods #The Great MacGonagall (veering off-topic) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA17757; Thu, 3 Jul 97 07:25:23 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08067; Thu, 3 Jul 97 07:24:14 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA10431; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <13724CB5526@ramsden.shef.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Dr. Clive Woods" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Great MacGonagall (veering off-topic) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Dr. Clive Woods" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Great MacGonagall (veering off-topic) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum At 4:28 on 3 Jul 97, Michael Walters wrote: > If somebody can do something badly so well that nobody else can replicate > it, surely this speaks of a certain strange inverted genius? Indeed. I am reminded of the brilliantly funny "Divertissement" by Ibert, and a wonderful piano piece by Jean Francaix (I wish I knew its title, I only heard it once on the radio) which is deliberately written to imitate a beginner playing a piano piece _very_ badly, complete with wrong notes, hesitations, bad phrasing, and a triumphant loud dissonant chord at the end. (Both Francaix and Ibert are/were, of course, "serious" and most highly competent composers.) Clive Woods c.woods@sheffield.ac.uk _______________________________________________________________ From: Dr. R.C. Woods, Department of Electronic and Electrical Engineering, University of Sheffield, Mappin Street, Sheffield, S1 3JD, United Kingdom. Telephone: +44 (114) 22 25144; Fax: +44 (114) 2726 391. WWW page URL: http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/academic/D-H/eee/ssdm/members/rcw.html  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 7-Jul Mendes, Rica #FW: methinks shakespeare doth drink too much (or too little) . . . (OFF TOPIC BUT FUNNY!) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06211; Mon, 7 Jul 97 15:07:23 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05420; Mon, 7 Jul 97 15:07:21 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA02904; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mendes, Rica" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FW: methinks shakespeare doth drink too much (or too little) . . . (OFF TOPIC BUT FUNNY!) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mendes, Rica" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FW: methinks shakespeare doth drink too much (or too little) . . . (OFF TOPIC BUT FUNNY!) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Since the Shakespearean insult made it to S'net, I hope you don't mind this theatrical humour... >---------- > >============ > T H E T O P F I V E L I S T > Have Thee Milk? >==================================================== > > June 25, 1997 > > The Top 16 Plays Shakespeare Chose Not to Publish > >16 Christopher Marlowe Can Kiss My Elizabethan Ass > >15 Henry VIII, I Am, I Am > >14 Fast Times at Verona High > >13 A Midsummer Night's Nocturnal Emission > >12 Om'let > >11 Love's Fing'r Pulled > >10 Romeo & Steve > > 9 Twelfth Night, Children Stay Free > > 8 Felines > > 7 Henry VIII was a Big Fat Idiot > > 6 Six Degrees of Francis Bacon > > 5 Stratford-upon-Avon 90210 > > 4 Hamlet II - Where the hell is everybody? > > 3 Romeo & Michelle's High School Reunion > > 2 King Gump > >and the Number 1 Play Shakespeare Chose Not to Publish... > > 1 Booty Calleth > >[ This list copyright 1997 by Chris White and Ziff Davis, Inc. ] >[ The Top Five List top5@walrus.com http://www.topfive.com ] >[ To forward or repost, please include this section. ]>> > > Rica Mendes >@}-,--'--- AIG Financial Products - Operations ---'--,-{@ > Arcadian Ensemble, The Doors 3 Project, > Gilbert & Sullivan Society of New York, IHBM Guild, > Mah Pi Tones, Oberlin Gilbert & Sullivan Players, >Poliniak Trial by Jury, Pound Ridge Theater Co (VP/Prod.), > Savoy Fare, Sunday Group  1,, Summary-line: 18-Jul Fraser Charlton #OOTW Pinafore - Mutiny on the Pinafore Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08335; Fri, 18 Jul 97 04:17:37 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA03264; Fri, 18 Jul 97 04:17:35 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA03914; Fri, 18 Jul 199 7 04:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Fraser Charlton To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: OOTW Pinafore - Mutiny on the Pinafore X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** 7 04:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Fraser Charlton To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: OOTW Pinafore - Mutiny on the Pinafore X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Like many others, my first reactions on meeting Captain Corcoran again in Utopia Ltd. were of delight, my second of puzzlement: how did he rise so far so fast? Straightaway, I'd like to state that I do believe that Edward is the same bloke, whose Christian name is only revealed because he's knighted and therefore _has_ to have one: 1) He sings the 'what, never?' refrain. This is only ever sung by Corcoran, even when Ralph is 'really' him. I presume that he would carry it with him for ever after. 2) He is not a tenor, and a baritone -> bass change is quite reasonable (so he's definitely not Ralph!) 3) Everyone remembers Corcoran as a captain, not as an able seaman, including, I suspect, Gilbert himself. It's only when you stop and think you remember the demotion, which most audience members don't. Bringing Corcoran back on as an able seaman would have been quite startling, I imagine. Anyway, given this, the question of precisely how he made the change bothered me. I mean, able seamen were not able to rise through the ranks to become captains - it was more a class thing. And to get a KCB? No way! This thought festered for several years, during which I wrote a number of new musicals using G&S songs. Although I vowed never to do another, this problem keep nagging away, until I could resist no longer. After playing with several possible plots (Corcoran saving Sir Jo from female pirates, and getting knighted as a reward, etc.), I decided to 'do a Gilbert' and go back to the same sources as he had used, The Bab Ballads. Firstly, I found that there was material in 'Captain Reece' that had not been used up in Captain Corcoran's behaviour in 'Pinafore' (Reece was _much_ nicer) - that became Captain Rackstraw after he took over command. And the sequel BB 'The Martinet' became Rackstraw's behaviour after Sir Jo and Lady Hebe had given him a good talking to. But how to get Corcoran back up the social scale? The answer was so obvious that I had missed it! Without introducing any more characters, there was already someone who had a KCB - Sir Joseph, of course. Back to the Bab Ballads, 'The Baby's Vengeance' provided a wonderful explanantion for how an ambitious baby Sir Jo could have exchanged himself with another baby to get on in the world. This would have had to have happened before Ralph and Edward were swapped, of course (work it out!). The rest fell into place. The title 'Mutiny on the Pinafore' had been buzzing around my head as soon as the idea first appeared, so that was easy. Dick Deadeye, possibly the most intriguing character in the original, became the narrator and key person to keep the plot moving, my recent discoveries of 'The Rose of Persia' and 'Haddon Hall' supplied some interesting new songs... and, a few weeks later, there it was! It was finally produced in 1995, and became the biggest financial and audience success of all my shows (largely because of the title, I suspect!) For a full summary of the plot, go to my Web Page. It was a wonderful experience to live in the World of Pinafore during the writing, and I can only hope that I did it some justice. Anyone interested in producing it (and people in New Zealand and Milton Keynes have so far claimed interest), please let me know. Fraser (who should be looking at slides and not writing long e-mails). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- E-mail: Fraser.Charlton@ncl.ac.uk Tel: 0191 222 8148 Pathology, Royal Victoria Infirmary, Newcastle Upon Tyne WWW HomePage: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~nfc2 ----------------------------------------------------------------------  1, forwarded,, Summary-line: 22-Jul Gordon Pascoe #Review: Iolanthe (Seattle G&S) Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA04335; Tue, 22 Jul 97 21:54:23 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15049; Tue, 22 Jul 97 21:53:03 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA27568; Tue, 22 Jul 199 7 21:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.16.19970722164345.1a3f4ff0@mail.island.net> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Gordon Pascoe To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Review: Iolanthe (Seattle G&S) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (16) *** EOOH *** 7 21:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Gordon Pascoe To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Review: Iolanthe (Seattle G&S) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (16) One of the things I enjoy most about the s'net are the reviews that are sometimes posted and today I'm pleased to contribute a review of my own. Last Saturday I traveled from Vancouver Island here in Canada down to Seattle in the U.S. of A. to see Iolanthe as produced by the Seattle Gilbert & Sullivan Society. It was a long and laborious trip and I hoped the show would be worth the effort. It was. The show was very traditional and kept faithfully to the libretto and score. Yet the director had the courage to present this in an untraditional way where he felt it was appropriate. (Do I make myself clear?) In short, a fresh look while sticking to the text and score. 1. Men's Chorus. Superb. Without a shadow of doubt, no possible doubt whatever, the finest I've ever heard. Their marvelous singing was backed up by good characterization and effortless movement. 2. Women's Chorus. Very good singing, as was necessary to prevent them from being eclipsed by the men. They held their own - which is the highest compliment one could pay them. Since one gets used to seeing good women's choruses it is not so easy to get as excited about them as one was with the men. This women's chorus had a very, very high level of physical attractiveness. They were (are) a feast for the eyes. Their dancing and general movement was a joy. 3. Orchestra. Oh, my! Alan Lund deserves accolades for the playing of this orchestra - and the musicians for their rising to his expectations. Their tutti could be anything from pp to fff. The balance was always such that it brought out the best in Sullivan's original orchestrations. There are several places in Iolanthe, for example, where the bassoon has a solo or a "duet", and these were executed perfectly. All the solo work of the orchestra was of a very high calibre. 4. Principles and minor leads. Without exception they were all top notch. Their dialogue and movement was a good as their singing - a circumstance that gave particular pleasure. Yet I did have my favourites. David Ross played the LC to perfection and is a treasure any G&S society would be pleased to pirate. He has the ability to dominate the stage by his presence and yet fade into the chorus when it is appropriate to do so. I also was much taken, indeed fascinated, by Jon Palmason as Tolloller. He is a large man who is so light on his feet that he could be tripping hither and thither as though on gossamer. It is fortunate that William Darkow as Mountararat was strong enough to match Tolloller and the LC, as he indeed he was. Their Act II Trio was the unsurpassed delight that it should have been. Nothing fancy, but with restraint shown in the early verses that built as a sort of movement "crescendo" to the final section when the three of them cut a fine swath. Very traditional. Perfect. 5. I liked the set, which apart from being attractive provided the sort of useful help to the action that one hopes to see. A long staircase to an upper level recessed into which was an on-stage orchestra pit. I enjoyed being able to see the orchestra (I was in the balcony) and found that it did not distract from the action in any way at all. Into the "stone" face of the upper level were some gargoyles that incanted smoke at the Fairy Queen's bidding forth of Iolanthe. The centre section of this wall bulged towards the audience and gave space for (a) a working water fountain (b) a trap-door for Iolanthe to rise seemingly through the wall of water and (c) arches below which were used as entrances/exits and as places to "hide" in. David Ross, the conductor, broke the ice moments before commencing the overture by bringing the water fountain to life in the time-honoured way that choral directors bring their choir to their feet and then indicate that they may sit; like a well-trained choir the fountain rise in line as one - and then "sat" in perfect unison! At the foot of the staircase were two large statues of frogs. They later came to life and proved to be two accomplished dancers. 6. The costumes were good. An interesting feature being a break from the tradition of the Grand Robes worn by the peers during their entry. I'm still not sure if I liked this. I missed the huge splash of colour that Gilbert brilliantly calls for at this moment. Yet, since it was saved "for later" in Act II it wasn't too great a loss. The "Polo Party For Phyllis" was cleverly done and followed through with very well. The pretty women's chorus looked gorgeous in their fairies outfits, as did Phyllis in her rustic outfit. I did not like the outfit given to Phyllis for Act II, though I can't say why. The lighting was so well done, so tasteful, you could easily have missed it; another perfect "performance". All this said, I will, with regret, show what a difficult-to-please narsty sort of chap I can be. These comments are directed solely at the director (pity the lot of any G&S director, with idiots like me about!). He did so many good things that I feel almost as a Judas to say where I disagree with him. My major difficulty is that I felt that in several places he allowed the focus to be badly pulled from the essential action. For example, a major feature of the production was the use of dancers. Two were frogs (a good use of a libretto suggestion) and three of the fairies as a sort of Dancing Trio. These five women were all excellent and did much to add to the show. But the director, John Rindo, allowed it to go a bit too far on several occasions. As an example, they partly stole Private Willis' big moment by staying on stage too long (during the entire solo) after cleverly helping with the introduction. In the Act I Finale I missed an entire section by allowing my attention to be drawn by the beautiful work of the Dancing Trio prominently done on the upper level. These were not the only instances. An excellent concept, often beautifully followed through but in the end slightly spoiled (IMHO) by a lack of restraint. In similar fashion the focus was badly spoiled by Strephon in the Act I Finale by his gesturing to the LC on the staircase at SL. This was the only example of this sort of thing in the entire show. Another example of focus pulling was with the fountains. Delightful though they were, they were used once or twice too often. Sometimes less is more. But they were there and available and the restraint to NOT use them was lacking, as it was with the availability of the dancers. But I am ignobly born - and saw the show through the eyes of one who loves dancing and beautiful women. Is it any wonder that I allowed my focus to be pulled? In summary, a smashing success. A triumph. The Seattle G & S Society should be very proud of their production. Any person wishing to see the show, and take their family, including sisters and cousins and aunts, will have a wonderful evening of fun filled musical theatre. Those unable to see it should strongly consider contacting Mike Storie and purchasing a copy of their video.  1,, Summary-line: 7-Aug Bruce I. Miller #Dorwart/Presser Orchestrations of Savoy Operas -Reply Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA25855; Thu, 7 Aug 97 13:08:53 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA23065; Thu, 7 Aug 97 13:08:46 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA19713; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Dorwart/Presser Orchestrations of Savoy Operas -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 *** EOOH *** Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Bruce I. Miller" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Dorwart/Presser Orchestrations of Savoy Operas -Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 As a purchaser of the edition listed below for Yeomen of the Guard, I can only warn my friends on the Net that we experienced nothing but grief when attempting to use this edition. I can speak only from experience with Yeomen; I have not seen any of the other operas published by WVD> However, I feel it is the height of irresponsibility to publish for sale an edition which obviously had not been proofread, much less Beta-tested, without proper warning to the customer or support from the publisher. We were charged full price for these materials, upon which it was necessary for me to spend hundreds of hours to make workable. In addition a few of the parts suffered from severe fading problems; it looked like a toner problem, although I cannot be certain of this. When we attempted to have the parts replaced, no relief was forthcoming despite repeated requests for replacement parts over many weeks. The parts came through with numerous errors which included rehearsal letters missing or incorrectly located and numerous pitch errors, and in some instances obvious computer errors in which whole measures were suddenly transposed into the wrong key or clef. The full score had measures jammed together so tightly that words overlapped each other. The resulting jumble and misalignment made it impossible to follow certain vocal passages in the score, and some instrumental passages with complicated features such as tremolos were very difficult to decipher. These are so painfully obvious even in a cursory examination of the full score that it would not have needed a Beta-test to discover the problems and fix them. Some of the orchestra musicians complained parts were put on a single staff, rather than separated - examples were Bassoons I and II and "Trumpets" I and II. They also complained about the profusion of cues which they were not supposed to play; it made it more difficult for them, not easier, as we were not using a cut-down orchestra and playing the original orchestration. As to the page turns, it appeared to me that an effort had made made to compress more measures on a page than the standard Kalmus parts; there were far fewer pages per part with the WVD edition than with the Kalmus parts. As to page turns, there were numerous instances of extremely difficult ones - by which I mean turns without measures of rest separating the page turns. I have no intention of providing WVD a free list of what would amount to pages and pages of corrections to his edition. These would not include editorial decisions, but simply the nuts and bolts issues of correct location of rehearsal letters and obvious pitch errors, and such things as missing bar lines, etc. As to editorial decisions, that's another issue, for others to discuss. Bruce I. Miller College of the Holy Cross Internet: bmiller@holycross.edu >>> "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." 08/06/97 09:30pm >>> I hope the following informatin will be of interest to some SavoyNet subscribers. Have any of you seen these parts? What do you think of them? Rafe ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 14:10:45 GMT From: Theodore Presser Company To: RMacPhai@Bridgewater.edu Subject: Gilbert & Sullivan Page Dear Ralph The following message is a follow-up on our conversation at the G&S Festival. New Editions of Orchestral Materials for Gilbert and Sullivan Operettas I, William V. Dorwart, who have been a pit cellist for G&S for many years, have undertaken a project to produce new editions of the entire G&S canon. The parts are designed to be player friendly, with great effort expended to locate page turns conveniently. Abundant cues are provided, both so that players do not have to count long strings of tacet measures, and so that substitutions can be made for missing solo instruments; all solos are cued in at least one other part. All parts, and the score, have repeats and key changes at the same place, unlike Kalmus editions. Parts contain indications for vocal entries and for what vocalists are doing around fermatas. Trumpet parts are provided in both the original A and B flat versions, and transposed entirely into B flat. Conductor's scores and parts are printed in 11X14 and 9x12 formats. All copies are made with a high definition laser printer- no xeroxes. These materials can be obtained from the Theodore Presser Company, 1 Presser Place, Bryn Mawr, PA, 19010-3490, phone 610-527-4242. Prices range from $200 (Trial by Jury) to $525 (Gondoliers) for a score and set of parts. Available thus far are Iolanthe, Trial by Jury, Yeomen of the Guard, The Zoo, Gondoliers, and Mikado. H.M.S. Pinafore will be ready in October, 1997. Within about 3 years all should be complete. I who work entirely alone, and am aware that error correction is an ongoing problem. The best final proofing method is performance testing. Of the above shows, Trial, Iolanthe, and Gondoliers have been performance tested. Mikado will receive such a test in the fall of 1997 and Pinafore in the Spring of 1998. It is requested that anyone who uses these materials communicate to me any errors discovered or suggestions for improvements. The source materials from which I work are inconsistent with respect to dynamics and articulations; I have had, perforce, to become an editor, and there are bound to be some who would take issue with my editing. Since I only print a few copies at a time, corrections and changes will quickly find their way into fresh copies. I would also welcome colleagues who wish to join me in this endeavor- but don't expect it to be profitable. I can be reached at 124 Maple Ave, Bala Cynwyd, PA, 19004-3031, phone 610-667-3849, fax 667-3590. _____________________________________________________________ Theodore Presser Company Music Publishers since 1783 1 Presser Place phone: (610) 525-3636 Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 fax: (610) 527-7841 http://www.presser.com Forwarded to SavoyNet by Ralph MacPhail Jr. [RMacPhai@Bridgewater.Edu]  1,, Summary-line: 24-Aug Chris WEBSTER #Decca errors (was RE: MIKADO - 1958 D'Oyly Carte Recording) Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07838; Sun, 24 Aug 97 07:26:11 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA06116; Sun, 24 Aug 97 07:26:05 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA12800; Sun, 24 Aug 199 7 07:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 07:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris WEBSTER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Decca errors (was RE: MIKADO - 1958 D'Oyly Carte Recording) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 07:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 07:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Chris WEBSTER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Decca errors (was RE: MIKADO - 1958 D'Oyly Carte Recording) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum >Can anyone explain to me how it is that consistently ALL the record >companies go on making these sort of mistakes. I am slowly putting together >a mistakes discography of G & S. It starts with the acoustic Gondoliers HMV. >circa 1919 and runs through very many of the D'Oyly Carte records sets. One >would have thought that after the fiasco of the Cox and Box CD Decca would >have taken more pains to avoid such errors but this mistake appears to be >virtualy identical. Perhaps they have a secret plan to create collectors >items!!! The recalling of discs does not always work as it should. Does >anyone know if the matrix numbers on the CD were changed and if so from what >to what. I assume the disc numbers would not have been changed. >Peter D Parker. Below is a slightly adapted copy of an email I compiled for Marc Shepherd some months ago. It is concerning errors that I was aware of made by Decca when reissuing their G & S back catalogue. I don't know how many you are aware of, Peter, but I would appreciate any details that you can share of other errors over the years concerning G & S releases from any of the record companies. This request also goes to any Savoynetter who knows of any errors that perhaps Peter and I don't know of. You asked about the matrix numbers on corrected CDs and the answer is YES they were changed. The last digit of the matrix after the dash (eg. - 1) usually refers to the take and in the case of corrected discs this number has been changed - I think in the case of Iolanthe, Cox and the 58 Mikado the changes are from take 1 to take 2. Please excuse occasional corroborative detail below, I do tend to get rather conversational in my writings at times. 1. When the Martyn Green Pirates was eventually reissued (a story in itself, to be told later) on Ace of Clubs (Decca budget label) in 1973 the sleeve was printed with the cast list of the Pratt recording. Rather than reprinting the sleeve the correct cast was printed on sticky labels and stuck over the erroneous list. This looked very tacky. 2. On the first batch of 'steoreoised' DPA reissues, the Pratt Ida somehow 'lost' Gama's Act Three song!! This error was spotted and the song was reinstated. I got my copy of this, after it had been deleted, from a dealer who knew someone at Decca who sent a copy from the Decca 'leftovers library' and it is the original misprinted version. I imagine the corrected version would have a different matrix number for side 4. 3. The mid 80s LP reissue of the Reed 'Patience', in what I refer to as the 'pros arch' series (ie. the cover depicting a proscenium arch with many drawings of the characters on stage, which is now the standard Decca G & S cover), had one side totally mispressed. I can't remember which side this was, but, rather then a recording of the appropriate section of Patience the side featured some sort of atonal dirge. I don't know what it was but it was returned to the shop. A corrected version of Patience was issued soon after. 4. The CD reissue of Reeds Iolanthe had a cut in the act one opening 'fairy' music. I haven't got my score here at the moment to tell you which bars were cut, but there is a short section of about four bars that repeats the previous four bars (about 12 bars in, I think). The second (or maybe first!) four bars were cut for some unknown reason. This was later corrected. 5. The original CD coupling of Ruddigore and the 61 Cox, featured the 77 Cox. This was a great error to make as I don't expect the 77 recording is likely to be released on CD for a very long time. I wrote to Decca to point out this error and to beg that they were going to correct the disc and not just reprint the liner notes. I said if it was the disc that was corrected I did not want to return the 77 Cox to the shop, so could I just purchase the 61 Cox disc. I also informed them of the Iolanthe cut in the same letter. Within a few days I received FREE corrected sets (not just the particular discs) of Iolanthe and Ruddigore/Cox. I gave the original Iolanthe to a friend and also the Ruddigore box minus CD 2 which now sits comfortably in my Ruddigore box opposite the divine 61 recording. (Incidentally, some of the Decca CDs were issued again with a different cat no (certainly Mikado and Pirates - you have details included in your discography) I only have the second issues but comparison with a friends first issues show his to be AAD and mine to beADD) 6. The reissue of 'Songs and Snatches' includes five Mikado items attributed to Sargent/1964 (almost the same selection as 'Spectacular' but Mikado's song exchanged for Little List). The items were in fact taken from the 73 recording - Colin Wright Ughh!! I do not think this disc was ever corrected. 7. Bang up to date with this one. Around August last year I saw an advert of new Belart releases. What interested me was 'Mikado - Godfrey'. This must be the 58 version thinks I. The release date was for September so I called nearly every major shop in London for three weeks thoughout that month to see if their copies had arrived. After several calIs to Belart they finally confirmed that the release of this disc has been put back a few weeks. How annoying thinks I ! When the new release date came round the CD still did not appear for a few days, but I eventually traced copies to Tower records in Central London. So I made the 10 mile journey into town to collect the disc at 11pm after I had finished work that evening (they're open til midnight). At this juncture I should point out that Belarts only venture into reissuing highlights from a complete recording was excellent - the 61 Gondoliers with a running time of 69 minutes. Well when I saw this disc I could not believe what they had done. Yes it was the 58 version, but the running time was only 49 minutes and that included an overture of nearly 8 minutes. Now what is the point of cutting so much out!! Even 'Here's A How De Do' was cut, and that is usually over in the time it takes to place the stylus on the LP and reach the armchair. I already had ideas forming of what I was going to say in a letter to Belart re this butchering. However, at least Pratt's Little List, Round's Wandering Minstrel, and most importantly, Donald Adams Mikado's Song were included. I resisted the temptation to play the disc in the car on the way home - I had waited a long time to get these numbers on CD and was going to enjoy these at home with a gin and tonic, and the surround speakers, et al. Now you would not wanted to have witnessed the scene that followed, suffice to say I was a little upset!!! After getting myself comfortable I went straight to 'Wandering Minstrel' and could not believe what I was hearing, I 'remoted' to 'Mikado's Song' but ... could this be possible. Yes it was the 73 recording, again!! After several faxes to Belart I was told that the disc would be corrected, the bad disc withdrawn, and I would receive a replacement copy as soon as it was ready. Unfortunately over the next few months copies of the bad pressing were still appearing in the shops. Ironically, this is the only G & S disc from Belart to include a full cast list, and I have to say that it upsets me to think that a number of people may associate the voices of Colin Wright and John Ayldon with the names of Thomas Round and Donald Adams (and indeed the 'breathy' Peter Pratt with the 'crisp' John Reed). I think Belart must have forgotten me as I had to chase them up about my replacement, but I eventually received the corrected disc. I only hope that by issuing a disc of highlights of this recording it will not deter any possible future reissue of this Mikado in its complete form.  1,, Summary-line: 27-Aug Geoffrey Dixon #Re: Concordance Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA15384; Wed, 27 Aug 97 17:32:49 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20079; Wed, 27 Aug 97 17:32:41 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA09724; Wed, 27 Aug 199 7 17:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dixon@cix.co.uk (Geoffrey Dixon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Concordance X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: <970827154053_1985642837@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *** EOOH *** 7 17:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: dixon@cix.co.uk (Geoffrey Dixon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Concordance X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum In-Reply-To: <970827154053_1985642837@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allow me, as an old Concordance draughtsman, to clear up what seem to be a few misunderstandings. There are 3 titles which have been mentioned: 1. Halton, F.J. The Gilbert & Sullivan: a concordance. New York, Bass Publishers, 1935. 2. Colson, Warren A. The Gilbert & Sullivan concordance... Natick (Mass.), Feather's Press, 1986. 3. Dixon, Geoffrey. The Gilbert & Sullivan concordance...2 vols. New York, Garland Publishing, 1987. No.1 is *not* a concordance at all but a dictionary of allusions. a concordance is _ an alphabetical arrangement of the principal words contained in a book... with citations of the passages in which they occur_ (Shorter Oxford English Dictionary) No. 2 and 3 *are* concordances, but with quite important differences; Colson does not include Thespis or Grand Duke whilst Dixon covers all 14 G.& S. operas; Colson specifies the character uttering the words, Dixon does not ; in addition to this, the two works have a different attitude to the formation of the headwords which form the basis of the work (it's a matter of lemmatization - nasty technical jargon that these scholars use!!) Colson has 352 double-column pages; Dixon has 1837 single-column pages with slightly fewer lines per page It is up to others to make a detailed comparison of the two. Warren Colson and I were not aware of each other's work until the November of 1986 when his was published and mine had just been sent to the publisher. There followed a correspondence between us during which I learnt what a charming and humorous man he was. Marc Shepherd is correct in pointing out that he keeps asking me about a 2nd ed. The position is that Garland Press are not interested in putting out the paperback ed. which might be priced at a level which might attract the average G.& S. enthusiast. (The original edition was aimed at large reference and academic libraries) Other publishers have so far not been interested and the task of publishing privately a work extending to nearly 1900 pages has so far not found a place in my schedules. Computerised full-text searching: this is never as easy or efficient as one would imagine, as a comparison of the results of the G.& S. Archive search engines with my own work usually proves. Standardisation of symbols for opera titles: this has already happened insofar as the 2-letter symbols originated by Rollins and Witts have been continued by me in the following: 1. _The Gilbert & Sullivan concordance. 1987. 2. _The Gilbert & Sullivan photofinder. 1995. 3. _Index to the Sir Arthur Sullivan Soc. Magazine. 1995 4. _The Gilbert & Sullivan Journal 56-year index. 1996. Geoff. Dixon Ayr, Scotland E-mail: dixon@cix.co.uk (Tel:01292 441547)  1,, Summary-line: 27-Aug Andrew Solovay #Tarantino & Sullivan Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07961; Wed, 27 Aug 97 20:23:48 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA18952; Wed, 27 Aug 97 20:23:40 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA11525; Wed, 27 Aug 199 7 20:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 20:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <01BCB30B.BD94F7C0.asolovay@infospace-inc.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Solovay To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Tarantino & Sullivan X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 *** EOOH *** 7 20:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 20:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Solovay To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Tarantino & Sullivan X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Well, my mention of the "dead nigger storage" speech got me thinking... what if "Pulp Fiction" were remade as an operetta? Okay, it's not the best rewriting you'll see on this mailing list, but I hope "for a beginner, it's admirable..." (If you haven't seen Pulp Fiction, this scene is about... um... it's where... Oh, just see the darned movie.) PULP OPERETTA: The Bonnie Situation =================================== The scene: Jules and Vincent have just arrived at Jimmy's home, covered with Marvin's blood. They need to get rid of the body before Jimmy's wife Bonnie gets home... Jules: I know that you've gone straight, so I regret my rude intruding But I hope our ugly business will be presently concluding. Vincent Vega is my partner, or he was until this morning But I'm ready now to dump him (I am giving him fair warning). He's a pleasant natured fellow, friendly once you get to know him, But I'll never trust him anymore as far as I can throw him What with waving guns around like traffic safety doesn't matter-- Now our prisoner is dead, and I am covered with the splatter! Vince: And I'm covered with the splatter splatter splatter... Jimmy: Ew, he's dripping all the splatter splatter splatter... Vince: I resent your allegation that I'm cranially lacking, Or that when it comes to safety I indulge in any slacking. I was careful with the gun, and I don't think that it was loaded-- So I've no idea why Marvin's head spontaneously exploded. All today I haven't had a chance to light myself a spliff in And I haven't touched the heroin since yesterday at tiffin, So I'm quite as level-headed as Detective Phil Vanatter, So whatever else you say, you can't blame me for all the splatter! Jules: Yes, I blame you for the splatter splatter splatter... Jimmy: What's the deal with all the splatter splatter splatter... Jimmy: I don't think you appreciate the Bonnie Situation. If she sees the way you look I'm facing imminent castration. I've repented all my history of murderous adventures, And your boss was good enough to have forgiven my indentures. Now you've thrown it out the window, 'cause I doubt she'll be ignoring The undoubted illegality of negro-body-storing, So get out of here before this moron makes me any madder And I cream him with a frying-pan and add to all the splatter! Jules: Just be cool about the splatter splatter splatter... Vince: Jimmy's head is gonna splatter splatter splatter... All: I bet we get an Oscar for this hip and witty patter, But the rest will go to Gump 'cause it is lower on the splatter!  1,, Summary-line: 31-Aug JenJJJ@aol.com #Fwd: "Fred Sullivan - Help With Family Tree?" Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA24832; Sun, 31 Aug 97 22:48:34 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA09614; Sun, 31 Aug 97 22:48:23 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA09682; Sun, 31 Aug 199 7 22:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <970831223835_1682656731@emout08.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: JenJJJ@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fwd: "Fred Sullivan - Help With Family Tree?" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 22:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: JenJJJ@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fwd: "Fred Sullivan - Help With Family Tree?" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum --------------------- Forwarded message: From: jlacy@incom.net (J. L. Smith) Reply-to: jlacy@incom.net To: PHILIP@msmail.awii.com CC: Jenjjj@aol.com (Jennie), WBrahos@aol.com (Brigid) Date: 97-08-31 03:38:44 EDT Philip: My granddaughter Jennifer has sent me your request re Frederic Sullivan and the Lacys. Frederic Thomas Sullivan [1837-1877], older brother and only sibling of Arthur Seymour Sullivan [1842-1900], married Charlotte Louisa Lacy [1841-1885] in London, England [1862]. Frederic's father was Thomas Sullivan (jr), Bandmaster at Sandhurst; Charlotte's father was Richard Lacy, builder and developer of London properties. Frederic and Charlotte had eight children: Amy Sophia [1863-1947] died Northridge, Calif. Florence Louise [1865-1891] died Los Angeles Edith Mary [1866-1877] burned to death in London accident. Herbert Thomas [1868-1928] died London. Not adopted, but raised as a son by his uncle Arthur Sullivan after his father's death. All of Frederic's children were supported financially and with affection by Arthur Sullivan for as long as help was needed. Maud Helen [1870-1940] died San Marino, Calif. Married Richard H. Lacy, son of William Lacy (sr). (my maternal grandmother). Frederic Richard [1872-1938] died Los Angeles. Screen actor; 14 films, including the Marx Bros. "Duck Soup". Directed some silents. George Arthur [1874-1917] William Lacy [1877-1903] The widowed Charlotte married Benjamin C. Hutchinson in 1881; they and six of Charlotte's children emigrated directly to Los Angeles in the winter of 1883-84, where Charlotte's brother William, his wife Isabella and their 2 daughters and 4 sons (including Richard, my maternal grandfather) lived. Arthur Sullivan bought a house in Los Angeles for Charlotte & family. Charlotte died in January, 1885 and Amy Sophia became head of the household. Sir Arthur visited his "little brood" in the summer of 1885. Before William Lacy settled in Los Angeles, he and his brothers Robert Linton, and Richard, having emigrated from England around 1860, farmed in Champagne Cty, Illinois. Richard fought on the side of the Southern Confederacy during the Civil War, was captured, imprisoned and died. Robert returned to England with a family, including a son, John Henry William who subsequently emigrated to New Zealand with his wife Rose, as outlined by their granddaughter Mrs. Nell Lock of Hamilton, New Zealand. Mrs. Lock has corresponded with my cousin Peter Lacy Fitzpatrick. In October of this year "'Amy's Book' London-Los Angeles 1866-1886" by Amy Sullivan Stephens, edited by myself, will be published. It is Amy Sophia's recollections as a child and young woman, and her association with her "Uncle Arthur". Jim (James Lacy Smith)  1,, Summary-line: 2-Sep Neil Midkiff #Re: Mikado films Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18870; Tue, 2 Sep 97 17:41:08 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20087; Tue, 2 Sep 97 17:40:58 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA23076; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709022137.OAA03671@netcom16.netcom.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: midkiff@netcom.com (Neil Midkiff) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Mikado films X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: midkiff@netcom.com (Neil Midkiff) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Mikado films X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Clive Woods writes: >>>>>At 13:44 on 31 Aug 97, Bruce I. Miller wrote: > On top of which, every copy of this film I have previewed is a half step > sharp in pitch. This is a flaw evidently either in the master tape used for > duplication, or in the duplication process itself. And it's MADDENING. There may be a good(ish) explanation for this, which film and TV experts will need to corroborate. If mastered on 35mm (or indeed 16mm) film, presumably it would have been shot at the standard 24 frames per second (fps). Unfortunately the standard TV frame rate in the UK is 25 fps (to prevent 1Hz "wobble" if there is 50Hz mains interference on raster scanning). Therefore, when broadcasting a film, or transferring a film to VT, standard practice in the UK (certainly until recently) would be to project film at 25 fps to align the frame rates. This would give a 4.2% pitch increase, compared to 5.9% for a semitone (= US half step), and would account for your observation. As far as broadcasters are concerned, this is usually regarded as "acceptable". Now, presumably any copy of this that you have seen has been made on US VT, on which the frame rate is of course 30 fps (same reason as in the UK, as US mains frequency is 60Hz). I do not know what happens to the frame rate of films when broadcast or transferred to VT in the US. There is a further complication here, because even if film is shown at (effectively) 24 fps on US TV, the copies you have seen may well have been transferred via a UK VT copy, which will have been 4.2% sharp. Anyone here know the missing details?<<<<< Dr. Woods is correct on all counts. US films of course cannot be speeded up from 24 fps to match the 30 fps NTSC video rate, so they are transferred at 24 fps. Early telecine machines used video cameras with "slow" retinas (having the equivalent of the human eye's persistence of vision) so even though they were basically an ordinary film projector coupled by lenses directly into a video camera, the camera tube wouldn't respond fast enough to see the flickering effect of the shutter. I have some off-the-air videotapes of films broadcast using these machines ca. 1985. (Of course it's possible that the 16mm film was transferred to broadcast video at the the TV station at a much earlier date.) Frame-by-frame advance on the videotape shows the blurring effect of superimposing adjacent frames of the original film. This method is obsolete by now. Commercial U.S. video transfers from film achieve sharper results by simply scanning every fourth frame of the film twice. That is, of the 24 frames of film per second, six of them are repeated so that there are 30 video frames per second. One would think that the effect of this would be visible in rapid action, but I've never been able to detect any 6/sec jerkiness due to this process; Fred Astaire seems to be moving as smoothly this way as on 24 fps film. It only shows up in frame-by-frame advance of the tape. I'm not certain how U.S. laserdiscs or digital video discs handle the problem but I'd bet laserdiscs are transferred just like tape, where DVDs store 24 images only, and do the one-in-four-shown-twice trick in the playback process. I suppose one could make a tape copy from a DVD just to check. I've heard it rumored that some newer videotapes don't use the repeated-frames trick but that in the mastering process the film is digitally scanned and that 30 frames are generated using an additive overlapping process. That is, video frame 1 is film frame A; video 2 is 75% film B overlapped onto 25%A, 3 is 50%C + 50%B, 4 is 25% D + 75%C, 5 is 100%D, 6 is 100%E, 7 is 75%F + 25%E, and so forth. The result would be a sharper equivalent of the old slow-video-camera transfer! The more things change, and so forth. (I must add that I haven't seen this effect yet in real life, but I haven't tried looking for it on recent commercial video releases.) Probably more than everybody wanted to know, but it certainly does explain the sharpness of the 1966 MIKADO tape. Clearly no one took the original film and did a U.S. standard film-to-tape conversion; instead, they used the electronic techniques that are standard in converting British 25 fps PAL TV conversion to US 30 fps NTSC TV, as they would with a BBC program shot on video, but in this case applied it mistakenly to the British video master of the film, with its 25/24 speed error. I agree with Bruce Miller that the result is maddening, and I simply won't buy a video of the 1966 MIKADO until somebody properly converts it for US TV. -Neil Midkiff  1,, Summary-line: 3-Sep P. D. PARKER #Re: Mikado films: Why they are sharp in pitch Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29518; Wed, 3 Sep 97 06:31:12 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17056; Wed, 3 Sep 97 06:31:01 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA27235; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970903112738.28270eb2@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Mikado films: Why they are sharp in pitch X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Mikado films: Why they are sharp in pitch X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Chris, you have I am sure the correct explanation in principle BUT UK TV operates at 25 pictures per second and 35mm films are shot at 24 pictures per second not the other way round. The reason for UK TV operating at 25 pictures per second is tied up with the origins of the development of TV in UK (don't forget UK had a public TV service in 1936 in advance of any other nation) and had to choose a frequency in line with the public electricity supply. What happened in USA where 60 Hz is used (I confess to not knowing why that happened) was that their TV operates at 30 pictuers per second. How they blend a 24 pictures per second film on to a 30 pictures per second TV screen I know not. Perhaps someone will explain it for us. Remember films at 24 pictures per second came before any TV. Does anyone out there know why 24 was the chosen number? I have currently been looking into the difficulties of showing NTSC 30 picture videos on PAL 25 picture equipment. That I have now solved but showing PAL (25 picture per second 625 line pictures on a 30 pictures per second 525 line screen I have not solved. If anyone knows how to do this please tell me. You will notice that I use the term 'pictures per second'. This is to avoid confusion with the scanning rates where a 2:1 interlace is used resulting in a doubling of the number os screenfuls of information per second to the eye. IE the eye gets 50 or 60 frames per second each of only half the data by showing only the even or odd lines. On large screen TVs many operate at 100Hz scan rate on a 50 frames per second scan. IE: each picture is drawn 4 times to reduce flicker. It is my understanding that in the cinema each picture is shown more than once at the 24 pictures per second rate for exactly the same reasons, although the data each time is complete. I confess to not knowing what the cinema scan rate is but it must be a multiple of 24. Maybe, like large TVs, there is more than one standard for this. Peter D Parker. pdp@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Summary-line: 3-Sep P. D. PARKER #Pal versus NTSC was G & S Films etc. Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA29539; Wed, 3 Sep 97 06:31:34 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21605; Wed, 3 Sep 97 06:31:23 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA27333; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970903112741.28275f44@mail.globalnet.co.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Pal versus NTSC was G & S Films etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "P. D. PARKER" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Pal versus NTSC was G & S Films etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) I have been reading all the learned stuff on the net about film speeds, pitch, 25 and 30 frames per sec etc. May I put in my oar although its a bit off topic as such. It would appear that in Europe where 50Hz electricity supplies are standard, the makers of integrated circuit chips have seen fit to design their circuitry in such a way that NTSC videos recorded at 30fps and at 525 lines can be reproduced on PAL VCRs and TVs. Almost all TV sets sold now in UK will allow this from a suitable VCR and many (even the cheaper VCRs) will play NTSC tapes on such suitable TV sets. Quite often these facts of life are not advertised or even know by the seller of the equipment. It happens because the manufacturers (as distinct from the trade names under which such items are sold) wish to standardise as much as possible to reduce costs in having to supply different models for different selling regions. That there is also a demand from customers in Europe to wish to play NTSC tapes helps but I think is likely to be a secondary consideration. On the more expensive VCRs and TVs the ability to play NTSC is usually advertised. The chips also have to cope with the different colour encoding between the systems and on some older TV sets NTSC will only reproduce in Black and White when played on a modern VCR. EG: the Old Hall Hotel's TV at Buxton a few weeks ago. Much the same is also true of SECAM and MSECAM but in these cases the 625 line 25 fps scan is the same as for PAL. However very few VCRs will play or record SECAM tapes in colour whereas the TV sets will reproduce SECAM and MSECAM in colour and the user is unaware that the operating system has changed over. I use a wide screen 16:9 aspect ratio TV whose scan frame rate is quoted as 100Hz as my main TV. This set is advertised as coping with NTSC, no mention in its litearature is made about SECAM or MSECAM. However as it is coupled to a multi-satellite system where the French programmes are almost all in SECAM it reproduces these in full colour without any change being required on any controls. The VCR to which this TV is connected via both composite video and Y/C (S-VHS) and via a UHF aerial link (any link can be chosen) will play NTSC in full colour whichever of the links is chosen. (The different links do show differences in quality of reproduced picture). I know this because I now have the Stanford Savoyards Zoo video in NTSC. However I was most (pleasantly) surprised to find that two small portable TV (from different makers) sets used in my kitchen and bedroom which are not advertised as anything other than PAL also reproduce the NTSC tape in full colour over the UHF aerial link. They will also respond correctly to SECAM and MESCAM if fed from the satellite system. TV sets bought as monitors for my video editing suite some 7 years ago also reproduce the NTSC signal but not the SECAM signals in colour. SECAM signals are reproduced in Black and White only. All of this shows that in Europe at least, chips have been fitted to TV sets for some while which allow some essence of multistandard operation even though nothing in the literature suggests this. I gather from USA friends that the same is not true in USA and that in general VCRs and TVs sold there will not cope or play UK PAL tapes. The same I suspect is likely to be true of SECAM. Can anyone explain to me why there should be this great divide and why we happen to be so much better equipped in Europe to play tapes from other countries. For those in USA, you may not be aware that there is more than one PAL derivative. The PAL systems divide into PAL I (UK) PAL G (Germany, Australia & others) and PAL B (I don't know where that is used, or what is different about it). These are different in relation to the placing of the FM sound sub-carrier, above or below the picture frequency in the UHF transmission and the spacing of that sub-carrier from the main frequency. Thus camera equipments sold in Europe which include a UHF modulator have to have a switch marked PAL I/PAL B,G to shift the sound carrier frequency. Some satellite receivers also have such a switch to place their modulation for audio correctly to allow them to be incorporated into TV systems in Germany or UK. With regard to speeds of tape past recording heads, all the 50Hz based countries use the same set of speeds so far as I can discover. However USA is different, and I suspect all 60Hz based countries. A tape that is advertised as two hours in a USA Hi-8 NTSC camera will only play for 95 minutes in a PAL camera. If any camera buffs want to check this look at any Hi-8 tape box and you will find that amongst the small print. I found out the hard way in Philly last year!! One further complication of recent years is that mainland Europe has embarked on, albeit temporary, system of 'high definition' TV in advance of digital systems becomming affordable. This is known as PALPlus. It itself has more than one system for obtaining and encoding the signals depending whether the source is live off camera or a film and is rather complex. Not all stations carry the signals and those that do not all the time. In UK only Channel 4 uses it. (For UK viewers see teletext page 371 on Channel 4). The signals as received are compatible on non PALplus equipped TV sets but for PALplus TVs the TV set detects the presence of the PALplus signal and changes over to display a much improved picture quality, virtually eliminating any visible line scanning. All pictures in this format are in 16:9 aspect ratio and many of the German, Spanish and other country TV stations are now using this system on satellite transmissions. In UK the BBC withdrew from committees discusing its introduction in UK and it has therefore not caught on much. PALplus VCRs were to have appeared but to date none have and makers claim they are going straight to digital systems, bypassing PALplus. Peter D Parker. pdp@globalnet.co.uk  1,, Summary-line: 3-Sep Rebecca Consentino #*grin!* Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA20017; Wed, 3 Sep 97 11:21:29 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA13508; Wed, 3 Sep 97 11:21:17 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA29993; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Rebecca Consentino To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: *grin!* X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Rebecca Consentino To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: *grin!* X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I don't know if this has made the rounds yet, but here's a little gem... Rebecca Consentino http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1065 "She's a silly, still she answers pretty well!" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- To: gsp-discuss@MIT.EDU By B. Willette ; reposted, with author's permission, from news.admin.net-abuse.email . Subject: "I've Got a Little List" [humor] [To be sung to the tune of the famous song from Gilbert and Sullivan's operetta "The Mikado."] Ko-Ko (Lord High Executioner and Postmaster@titipu.com): As some days it can happen that my in-box gets too full, I've got a little list-- a little procmail list Of annoying e-mail senders whose spew goes to dev/null, And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed! There's the idiotic nuisances who say "Make money fast! Just send a buck to each of us and add your name on last, I've made a bunch of money now, and you can join the fun, Ignore the dull statistics proving it cannot be done, So what if it would take more folks than currently exist?" They'd none of 'em be missed-- they'd none of 'em be missed! Chorus: He's got 'em on the list-- he's got 'em on the list; And they'll none of 'em be missed-- they'll none of 'em be missed. Ko-Ko: Then there's evil Spamford Wallace and his Cyberpromo slime-- The e-mail terrorist-- I've got *him* on the list! With his unrepentant attitude and arrogance sublime, It's easy to insist-- he *must* be on the list. He harvests our addresses, which he sells to other jerks Then he spams us selling software we can buy to block their works. New domains most every day, a tough man to ignore, Send him a "Remove" request, he only spams you more. He wants to make a profit, doesn't care how much he's dissed. But I don't think he'll be missed-- I'm *sure* he'll not be missed! Chorus: He's got him on the list-- got Spamford on the list; And I don't think he'll be missed-- I'm *sure* he'll not be missed! Ko-Ko: Headers saying "FREE," "X-Rated," "Bulk Mail," dollar signs-- Don't let them get you pissed-- just put them on the list. Anything from Nancynet, Quantcom, and all their kind, They'd none of 'em be missed-- they'd none of 'em be missed. The folks you've flamed on Usenet who might want to get you back, Anyone whose Web site you decided you should hack, And all the many pseudonyms of Caro You-Know-Who-- The task of filling up the blanks I'd rather leave to you. But it really doesn't matter whom you put upon the list, For they'd none of 'em be missed-- they'd none of 'em be missed! Chorus: You may put 'em on the list-- you may put 'em on the list; And they'll none of 'em be missed-- they'll none of 'em be missed! - -- Caitlin MacKay Shaw GS Emory University Institute for Women's Studies ------- End of Forwarded Message  1,, Summary-line: 3-Sep Dr. Clive Woods #Private message re: Mikado films Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18953; Wed, 3 Sep 97 13:11:05 EDT Received: from pp2.shef.ac.uk by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15569; Wed, 3 Sep 97 13:10:48 EDT Received: from ramsden.shef.ac.uk [143.167.59.253] by pp2.shef.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #12) id 0x6Iwo-0005jn-00; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:10:30 +0100 Received: from RAMSDEN/SpoolDir by ramsden.shef.ac.uk (Mercury 1.21); 3 Sep 97 18:10:34 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by RAMSDEN (Mercury 1.30); 3 Sep 97 18:10:27 +0100 From: "Dr. Clive Woods" To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:10:23 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Private message re: Mikado films Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.31 Message-Id: <277A60C0AE9@ramsden.shef.ac.uk> *** EOOH *** From: "Dr. Clive Woods" To: "David C. Jedlinsky" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:10:23 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Private message re: Mikado films Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.31 Thanks for a lucid explanation. Clearly by alternating 3 and 2 fields, a US telecine machine shows alternating cine frames for differing times. Does this mean the film transport mechanism is slightly different from a regular projector? At 12:27 on 3 Sep 97, David C. Jedlinsky wrote: > Incidentally, I don't see why one couldn't use a similar technique to > 3-2 pulldown for PAL. Every twelfth frame would have to take up three > fields instead of two, which would stretch 24 into 25. Perhaps the > mechanics were sufficiently complicated that it was felt that a 4% > audio pitch increase was preferable. I think either this is so, or else it was found that a glitch every half second was too noticeable. I have never heard of this being done here. > To continue on a similar topic, digital conversion between PAL and > NTSC not only has to take the 25/30 frame differences into account, > but must also handle the fact that PAL uses 625 scan lines, while NTSC > only has 525. These two facts combine to create a major nightmare when > attempting to convert between the formats. I assume that the simplest way is still to point a US camera at a UK TV screen. Of course there is loss of quality, but this seems to be accepted by broadcasters. In principle one could store lines digitally and arrange for the timing differences to be handled by buffer circuits, but is equipment to do this commercially available yet? > It would be far easier to obtain the original film, and > start over. It must remain a mystery why this was apparently not done for the US VT of the 66 Mikado. Surely good recording practice states that one always re-masters from the studio film master!! Maybe it was damaged or unusable in some way, so they were _forced_ to use a UK VT master. Clive _______________________________________________________________ From: Dr. R.C. Woods, Department of Electronic and Electrical Engineering, University of Sheffield, Mappin Street, Sheffield, S1 3JD, United Kingdom. Telephone: +44 (114) 22 25144; Fax: +44 (114) 2726 391. WWW page URL: http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/academic/D-H/eee/ssdm/members/rcw.html  1,, Summary-line: 5-Sep Sternenberg, Philip #RE: G&S and the Marx Brothers Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA26927; Fri, 5 Sep 97 10:16:12 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA27679; Fri, 5 Sep 97 10:15:58 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA17560; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <34103C28@ms-mail-gate> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip (HAC)" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: G&S and the Marx Brothers X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 *** EOOH *** Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Sternenberg, Philip (HAC)" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: G&S and the Marx Brothers X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Let's see. There are 13 extant Marx Brothers films. In order of production: THE COCOANUTS ANIMAL CRACKERS MONKEY BUSINESS HORSE FEATHERS DUCK SOUP A NIGHT AT THE OPERA A DAY AT THE RACES ROOM SERVICE AT THE CIRCUS GO WEST THE BIG STORE A NIGHT IN CASABLANCA LOVE HAPPY The first 11 were produced at intervals of one to two years apart. Suddenly they ceased to be made, only to go into production again for the final two at much wider intervals. The final two have (I believe) a much lesser following than most of their 11 predecessors. After the first five, production moved to a new venue. There is a 14th Marx Brothers film, but it has a stigma the other 13 don't have. (I'm referring to THE STORY OF MANKIND, in which the Marxes appeared but were not the stars.) (I believe) exactly one of the 13 did not originate as a Marx vehicle (ROOM SERVICE). The typical cast included three lead male comedians, a young romantic couple, and an aging woman of considerable weight, all of whose characters were more or less interchangeable from movie to movie. Need I be more specific about the similarities found in all of what I've said with another canon with which we're somewhat familiar? And I haven't even bothered mentioning the similarities in style that others have already posted. Philip Sternenberg -- "Nature's Sole Mistake!" philip@msmail.awii.com  1,, Summary-line: 8-Sep Andrew Crowther #Re: Who was the real Gilbert? Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA18953; Mon, 8 Sep 97 18:23:55 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA25393; Mon, 8 Sep 97 18:23:41 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA16053; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970908230918.2d571362@pop.brad.ac.uk> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Who was the real Gilbert? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) *** EOOH *** Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Andrew Crowther To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Who was the real Gilbert? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) All previous speculations on this question have been ridiculous and quite misleading. At the risk of seeming a killjoy, let me relate the sober facts. W.S. Gilbert was really Charles Dickens. It is well known that Dickens was an avid theatre-goer: why, then, did he write so little for the theatre? Because he had become known as a novelist, and the public would accept him in no other role. But the craving to begin a new career would not go away, and so, having composed the deliberately mystifying _Edwin Drood_ fragment, he faked his own death in 1870 and, heavily disguised, reappeared in the identity of William Schwenck Gilbert. It is true that another man of the same name had been making a small name for himself as a writer of burlesques and of comic journalism; but his small measure of talent had burnt itself out by this date, and he gratefully accepted Dickens's offer of a small annuity in return for the surrender of his real identity. (The puckish Dickens even hinted at this arrangement in his short story "Tom Poulton's Joke" and play _Tom Cobb_.) Dickens's phenomenal literary energy is reflected in his large dramatic output during the 1870s. He attempted to submerge his previous literary identity, and succeeded to a remarkable extent, replacing it with the self-consciously contrasted "Gilbertian" style. Only very occasionally did the old Dickens touch reappear, as in the _Iolanthe_ song "Fold your flapping wings" - which Dickens suppressed as soon as he realised how dangerous the hint was. The quality of his output fell off rapidly at about the year 1890, as he was approaching his 80th year, and he went into well-deserved retirement at Grim's Dyke. He died in 1911 at the age of 99, having earlier that year completed his last play, _The Hooligan_. This social-conscious sketch of a man in a condemned cell could only have been written by Dickens; but by this stage his second identity was so firmly established that nothing could shift it, even such a blatant literary confession. All this is, of course, the absolute unvarnished truth. Trust me: I'm a postgraduate student. It's all true, or strike me dead... aaaargh!! - Andrew. Andrew Crowther 82 the Avenue, A.J.Crowther@bradford.ac.uk Clayton, Bradford, (01274) 882143 West Yorkshire BD14 6RT. Great Britain. Visit Babliophile, my W.S. Gilbert page, at: http://www.student.brad.ac.uk/ajcrowth/babphile.htm "...what is hailed as a new style or a new school in literature often consists of doing as a novelty what a Victorian did long ago as a joke." - G.K. Chesterton, "On Phases of Eccentricity", in _All I Survey_ (1933)  1,, Summary-line: 10-Sep Arthur Robinson #re: OOTW:Thespis - Performances - Long Reply Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA03712; Wed, 10 Sep 97 10:28:17 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04642; Wed, 10 Sep 97 10:28:02 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA03876; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: re: OOTW:Thespis - Performances - Long Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <976B1031010B2100@c2smtp.devon-cc.gov.uk> *** EOOH *** Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: re: OOTW:Thespis - Performances - Long Reply X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <976B1031010B2100@c2smtp.devon-cc.gov.uk> On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Ian Bond wrote: > Dr. Rees had of course, well and truly researched the work - the results being > published in his book - "Thespis - A Gilbert and Sullivan Enigma" - alas, no > longer in print. "Who is the wretch who hath contrived this? Let him stand forth!" "'Twas I!" Back around 1977 or 1978, I ordered Dr. Rees's book, and received it with a note that I had obtained the last copy and it was now out of print. But all may not be lost. C.D. Paramor, a book dealer in England, was for some years selling copies of this book (paperback, presumably remaindered) for 1 pound each (I got one for a friend--a bargain). The last I recall, this book was still listed in his catalog, though for a higher price; I'll try to remember to search for his latest catalog and see if it's still available (if I forget and some Savoynetter is interested, please remind me). I highly recommend the book--the best book on THESPIS ever written. I have seen THESPIS twice--both times Bruce Montgomery's version, once in 1971 (the centennial) and once in 1989, at the Basingstoke conference (previously mentioned). It was fun--Mr. Montgomery is not Sullivan but the style seemed right to me, and one number in particular, "You're Diana," was wonderful. I too have heard the RRE recording (incidentally, the above-mentioned Mr. Paramor plays Sillimon on it). I have reservations about trying to fit music to words with which it doesn't scan (some excellent music and clever words just don't go together), but in places it works extremely well. > Garth Morton did not balk at the thought of setting two opposed melodies > against each other either, just as Sullivan had done. In 'Here far away from > all the world' Sparkeion is given the melody of 'When yester'eve I knelt to > pray' from HADDON HALL, against Nicemis' 'There's no one by' from the same > opera. This is one of the places it worked. The counterpoint is terrific--it sounds very Sullivanesque. > Melody used to set 'So that's arranged' from, I think, > CHIEFTAIN Yes--the "French song" from THE CHIEFTAIN ("Ah oui, j'etais une pensionnaire" or something of the sort). > Mercury's Song - 'Happy are we in our loving frivolity' SORCERER I'd always wondered where this music came from! > Entrance of gods. Storm music HADDON HALL into 'There's nothing I'm certain' > CHIEFTAIN Is the title "There's nothing I'm certain" from the David Eden revision of THE CHIEFTAIN, or was it in Burnand's original? > Finale Act Two - 'We can't stand this' - I haven't identified I believe this is the song that begins THE CHIEFTAIN and/or THE CONTRABANDISTA ("Hush! Hush!") By the way, can anyone tell me the source of the music for Thespis's solo in the Act I finale, "When might Jove goes down below," come from? (It sounds familiar but I can't place it.) Thanks, Arthur  1,, Summary-line: 15-Sep rmacphai@bridgewater.edu #Re: [Fwd: Sullivan & Gilbert] Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07106; Mon, 15 Sep 97 14:02:27 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05828; Mon, 15 Sep 97 14:02:08 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA14086; Mon, 15 Sep 199 7 14:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: [Fwd: Sullivan & Gilbert] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <341D5136.280B6598@idt.net> *** EOOH *** 7 14:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Ralph MacPhail, Jr." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: [Fwd: Sullivan & Gilbert] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <341D5136.280B6598@idt.net> _Sullivan and Gilbert_ performance material and rights are available from Samuel French, Inc., 45 W 25 Street, NYC 10010 212/206-8125 (Musical Department). BUT A MUCH BETTER ALTERNATIVE (IMHO) and something a group with the resources that The Blue Hill Troupe has would be "THE SAVOYARDS" by Donald Madgwick, Music from the Savoy Operas Arranged by Stanford Robinson. It is published and licensed by Boosey & Hawkes, London (publishers of "The Savoy Edition" of _Cox and Box_ (address not handy), and tells the story of G&S with much more fidelity to historical truth than does _Sullivan and Gilbert_, which is a highly entertaining musical with lots of non-historical 'stuff.' "The Savoyards" is a BIG show, bigger than a Savoy opera, with a large cast and many sets. There's even an entr'acte pantomime sequence called "The Kidnaping of Bab" (if my memory serves). Full orchestration is available, and Donald Madgwick's "new" lyrics for G&S favourites are _wonderful_. And well integrated into the plot. It hasn't been done in this country many times (I think it would be expensive to mount), but I seem to remember that the American premiere was presented by The Lamplighters. DISCLOSURE: The librettist is a very good friend of mine. Rafe > My organization, the Blue Hill Troupe, based in New York City, is > making plans for its 75th Anniversary, to be celebrated in 1999. As > part of > a multi-faceted celebratory year, we are searching for a candidate for > our Fall ('98) Show, and it occurred to me that it might be fun to try a > show called "Sullivan & Gilbert", which, as I recall, ran in New York > City approximately 10 years or so ago off Broadway. If my recollection > is further correct, a few years ago, one non-lurking member of theS'Net > commented on the subject show and perhaps even may have participated > in the production. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Ralph MacPhail, Jr. RMacPhai@Bridgewater.edu (540) 828-5342 Box 114 Bridgewater College FAX: 828-5479 Bridgewater VA 22812-1599 USA HOME: 828-6656 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  1,, Summary-line: 16-Sep Sharon Brindle #Re:HMS Pinafore - More anagrams Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA28250; Tue, 16 Sep 97 09:47:47 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA15353; Tue, 16 Sep 97 09:47:28 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA24875; Tue, 16 Sep 199 7 09:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709160922_MC2-2093-D698@compuserve.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sharon Brindle To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:HMS Pinafore - More anagrams X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *** EOOH *** 7 09:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sharon Brindle To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:HMS Pinafore - More anagrams X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On the subject of HMS Pinafore being an anagram of "name for ship", may I point out a few anagrams of G&S characters which relate (albeit in some cases rather tenuously) to their situation. Elsie Maynard: This "lady is meaner" in dumping Point, but on the other hand she does have a "maidenly a**e". Rose Maybud: By her behaviour it's obvious she thinks "boys are mud" Major-General Stanley: With his large brood, he certainly "enlarges maternal joy". Reginald Bunthorne: Only finds life "endurable in throng" Archibald Grosvenor: He, on the other hand, is a "cad abhorring lovers" Colonel Fairfax: Seeks "alliance for fox". His disguise as Leonard is a "lie of carnal fox". Melissa: "Aimless". Mabel Stanley: "Absently lame" or merely "Mentally base". Dame Carruthers: Some (e.g. Merryl) see her as a "treasured charm". However, given her peroccupation with beheading, perhaps "trachea murders" is more apt. Any more suggestions? Sharon Brindle "No, no not intelligent."  1,, Summary-line: 19-Sep Savoyard1@aol.com #Re: D'Oyly Carte Marriages -A few more Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA27380; Fri, 19 Sep 97 20:21:51 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07963; Fri, 19 Sep 97 20:21:31 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA21455; Fri, 19 Sep 199 7 20:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <970919201204_1263815215@emout06.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Savoyard1@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: D'Oyly Carte Marriages -A few more X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum *** EOOH *** 7 20:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Savoyard1@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: D'Oyly Carte Marriages -A few more X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Here is a little list of D'Oyly Carte marriages but is by no means comprehensive. (By the way, some have been dissolved) There a many from the early days of D'C. John Maguire married Pauline Wales then Thomas Lawlor married Pauline Wales Brian Peach married Alison Parker Glyn Adams married Elizabeth Mynett Alan Styler married Vera Ryan Richard Walker married Helen Roberts Derek Oldham married Winnie Melville Linda Anne Hutchison married Gordon Stewart (Not known if in D'C) Colin Wright married Marjorie Williams Susan Minshull married Kenneth McAllister (Orchestra) J. Ivan Menzies married Elsie Griffin Patrick Wilkes married Patricia Anne Bennett Michael Wakeham married Margaret Smith Courtice Pounds married Jessie Gaston (also Millicent Pyne) Darrell Fancourt married Eleanor Evans Isidore Godfrey married Margaret Kynaston then Ann Drummond Grant David Porter married Pamela Field Sydney Granville married Anna Bethell Frank Clifford married Beryll Wynter Henry Lytton married Louie Henri Peter Riley (Stage Manager) married Abby Hadfield Anthony Raffell married Vivisn Carman. John Broad married Rosalind Griffiths Vivian Tierney married Gareth Jones Alan Rice married Alexandra Hann Patricia Leonard married Michael Buchan Gillian Knight married Trevor Morrison (Stage Staff) George Cook married Marian Martin Philip Walsh "These are the only ones of which the news has come to Harvard. And there may be many others, which have never been discovered" Tom Lehrer (An Evening Wasted with..... )  1,, Summary-line: 20-Sep Arthur Robinson #Re: Gilbert........Sullivan Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA07356; Sat, 20 Sep 97 16:03:47 EDT Received: from Saturn.Bridgewater.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04118; Sat, 20 Sep 97 16:03:28 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Saturn.Bridgewater.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA26121; Sat, 20 Sep 199 7 16:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Errors-To: savoynet-owner@bridgewater.edu Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Gilbert........Sullivan X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <970920110431_55468914@emout15.mail.aol.com> *** EOOH *** 7 16:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Originator: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Sender: savoynet@bridgewater.edu Precedence: bulk From: Arthur Robinson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Gilbert........Sullivan X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Gilbert and Sullivan Forum Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <970920110431_55468914@emout15.mail.aol.com> On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 NEILOE@aol.com wrote: > I think it might be extremely interesting to discuss some of the other works > of G, S and G and S. Is there any way to get copies of Gilbert's other > libretti? Marc Shepherd beat me to supplying a list of those available on line. You may also be able to find some others in your library or through interlibrary loan (if you have it), usually under Gilbert as author. I don't have full citations, but from memory, here are some: Gilbert, ORIGINAL PLAYS, 4 volumes. This series, published by Chatto & Windus, includes many of Gilbert's plays, musical and "straight"; it's hard to find in the U.S. (I got my set for ten pounds in London), but is in some U.S. libraries. Gilbert, PLAYS AND POEMS. This has the 14 G&S operas, and three non-Sullivan works: the comic operas THE MOUNTEBANKS and HIS EXCELLENCY, and the blank verse play THE PALACE OF TRUTH. Gilbert, ed. Jane Stedman, GILBERT BEFORE SULLIVAN. Gilbert's six plays for the German Reed troupe. Gilbert, ed. George Rowell: PLAYS BY W.S. GILBERT. Includes THE PALACE OF TRUTH, SWEETHEARTS, PRINCESS TOTO, ENGAGED, and ROSENCRANTZ AND GUILDENSTERN. Gilbert, ed. Isaac Goldberg, NEW AND ORIGINAL EXTRAVAGANZAS... [I'm not even sure of the title]: This is very hard to find, but has the texts of DULCAMARA and other early "burlesques" by Gilbert. Gilbert, EIGHT ORIGINAL COMIC OPERAS, Second series; I'd never heard of this until the recent discussion, and just got my copy. This includes HIS EXCELLENCY, THE MOUNTEBANKS, and HASTE TO THE WEDDING. I've seen several of Gilbert's plays in anthologies--ENGAGED, TOM COBB, DAN'L DRUCE etc. If I have a chance I'll try to find citations. A personal view, for those who don't know Gilbert's non-Sullivan works: Gilbert's best work was with Sullivan, but he did write some other good plays; he also wrote some bad ones, but even some of these have their moments, or are (IMO) entertaining anyway (e.g., CHARITY, his "problem play"--melodramatic but has some amusing scenes and two hissable villains). I especially recommend (more or less in order): HIS EXCELLENCY--this SHOULD have been a G&S opera; I think it's better than several of Gilbert's libretti for Sullivan. A SENSATION NOVEL (in Stedman's edition)--a bit uneven, but I find much of it hilarious. PRINCESS TOTO--hard to find (except in Rowell's edition; it isn't even in Gilbert's 4-volume ORIGINAL PLAYS), but VERY funny, off-the-wall plot and dialogue (surprisingly, the lyrics are less interesting). ROSENCRANTZ AND GUILDENSTERN: If you're a Shakespeare purist, you may want to avoid this. Otherwise, read it! Others I recommend with some reservations (i.e. I like them but suspect some people may dislike them): THE MOUNTEBANKS (uneven but often funny; the notorious "lozenge plot"), SWEETHEARTS, ENGAGED, THE PALACE OF TRUTH, FOGGERTY'S FAIRY (which failed but, in the words of Lina Lamont, "Well, _I_ liked it!")... actually, I enjoy a lot of them, even though I can't conscientiously recommend some of them (for instance, GRETCHEN and THE FORTUNE HUNTER--which has a centenary coming up--are only for the die-hard Gilbertian, IMO). But tush! I am rambling. Good luck finding these. Arthur